Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Bringonthedrama]

18 hours ago, HeatLifer said:

I'm glad Robin doesn't give a flying fuck about Sam's irrelevant "relationship" with her husband. That's not why I think the hugging and oohing and ahhing was weird. And, yes, an acknowledgment from Sam about Robin saving Jason would be nice.

But my issue is still the choice to have Jason standing in the corner and saying two throwaway lines to Robin. They should have had actual scenes about Sonny, Morgan, Sam and the baby, etc. But these writers don't actually care about relationships if it's not advancing a story.

I don't want Robin to care about the Samtrick crap either. What bothers me is how Sam handles things/the writing for her re: Robin. It was Robin who sacrificed tremendously/never gave up on Jason, and a vision of Robin (because of their history/connection) that stopped 'programmed' Jason from killing Sam. Sam knows this. Also, at the Nurse's Ball, Robin was talking to Jason and Sam, had barely gotten out the words that Emma was with her to see her mom, when Sam squeed about saying hi to Emma and ran off to find her. Umm, Emma is not a long-lost gal pal of hers. The only reason Emma got close to Sam was because she was 'replacement mommy'  while Robin was a prisoner, saving Sam's husband. Not only did Sam not say 'thank you' when she had that opportunity, but she ran off to chat with Robin's daughter - and didn't even say a casual, "That's great, may I go say hi to Emma?" 

For all Sam's talk about Jason being her great love, this second chance for them, their miracle baby, etc. the glaring ignored point is that Robin made it possible for Sam's dream(s) to come true.  A scene could have tied that in w/Sonny and recent events- as the four of them are standing there, Sam has a line or two about her gratitude toward Robin, and then Sonny chimes in with his gratitude that Robin talked him out of suicide on Stone's bridge (which of course JaSam found out about off-screen, at some point).  She reminded him that his kids need him, blah blah blah.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, stlbf said:

We don't know if Nelle is even missing a kidney.

I think they did an x-ray or some sort of test to determine if Nelle had only one kidney. Yes, it was at GH, so grain of salt, but the setup for the story has been pretty clear that Nelle is the genuine donor. At least IMO. It would be an awfully weird long con if she weren't. (I don't put it past this show to change things again, of course.)

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

He whined all the time about how he grew up poor and not raised as a Cassadine

True, but I don't think Valentin has whined about having to do bad things, has he?

1 hour ago, Ambrosefolly said:

I am scratching my head as to why Helena was so frightened of Valentin

I think they're going to ignore this. Pity.

Edited December 31, 2016 by dubbel zout

[Ambrosefolly]

3 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

I think they did an x-ray or some sort of test to determine if Nelle had only one kidney. Yes, it was at GH, so grain of salt, but the setup for the story has been pretty clear that Nelle is the genuine donor. At least IMO. It would be an awfully weird long con if she weren't. (I don't put it past this show to change things again, of course.)

True, but I don't think Valentin has whined about having to do bad things, has he?

I think they're going to ignore this. Pity.

 

Still makes him a whiner and he hasn't been on very long, and I didn't see Nik giving a fuck about robbing the Qs of their company, despite the years he knew them. Kevin, Laura, Nina...I want him to pay like hell if he really dicks anyone of them over, because all of them have shown that they will do things up to and including murder.  To this day, Carly justified all the shit pulled on AJ and the Qs.I don't think Edward much justified or whined about screwing people over. 

[Cheyanne11]

The Nelle story is a total mess (shocking!).  The writers seemed to have changed course from where they were originally going (Jax being the bad guy) to it being Nelle wanting revenge on Carly for...reasons. 

Let's just blame Helena, take a shot, and call it a day, as the explanation will probably be ridiculous.

[movingtargetgal]

2 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

Since no one had any interest in explaining how DNAJ turned up alive I don't know why they bothered to revisit this organ donation story. Also, it still amazes me that Liez can't be bothered to find out what happened to her child during the four years he was dead or why the hospital told her his organs were donated when they obviously weren't. 

Exactly!  Helena had Jake for years you would think Jason and Liz would be a tad interested in what happened to him.  Liz, Jason and Laura have been through this before when Helena faked Lucky's death, held him captive, programed him to do her bidding and then sent him back to his parents.  Helena also had Jason captive and programed him to be her "soldier".  Huge story potential wasted.    

[stlbf]

34 minutes ago, movingtargetgal said:

Exactly!  Helena had Jake for years you would think Jason and Liz would be a tad interested in what happened to him.  Liz, Jason and Laura have been through this before when Helena faked Lucky's death, held him captive, programed him to do her bidding and then sent him back to his parents.  Helena also had Jason captive and programed him to be her "soldier".  Huge story potential wasted.    

Massive loss of story there! All dropped to do the stupid Franco, art therapist and Jake whisperer. Quick recast and drop anything remotely interesting about Jake. TFGH. Why search for clues of your son's lost years when we can deal with a serial killer trying to date Liz and watch JaSam being boring together and listen to Sonny whine about how his choices having consequences not being fair to him! Oh, and having to watch stupid Ava being involved in the Cassadine Island shitfest.

[TeeVee329]

The show badly bungled all the set-up from Helena's will/gifts, but Jake's Cassadine Island story book seemingly being winked out of existence was by far the worst.

[Oracle42]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

True, but I don't think Valentin has whined about having to do bad things, has he?

But nothing that he's done has been something that he had to do.  

He held a group of people hostage to force Nikolas to sign over assets that the (incredibly stupid, bullshit) retconned will from Mikkos already granted him. During that totally unnecessary and terribly written hostage situation he shot Kevin and murdered Nikolas. 

He stole Lulu's embryo. Nobody has their eggs harvested for shits and giggles. He knows (because he is not a complete moron) that there was either a fertility issue or she was violated by the family he claims to hate. So, while whining constantly and tediously about being kept away from his family, he did worse to Lulu and Charlotte.  Then he graciously offers to share custody. He stole her embryo and cheated her of nearly a decade of this child's life and he's snarky about it? Nope.

[dubbel zout]

10 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

But nothing that he's done has been something that he had to do.  

I get your point, but it's not as if Sonny and Julian have to do the stuff they do, either. Sonny didn't have to kill AJ. Julian didn't have to kill Carlos. 

12 minutes ago, Oracle42 said:

Then he graciously offers to share custody.

Even I can admit Valentin was wrong to keep Charlotte away from Lulu, but is he supposed to give Lulu full custody?

This story has so many intrinsic problems: the time line (a gigantic problem), Claudette (and Daphne, briefly), Valentin (he should not be in this story), Lulu's nutso baby rabies.

[HeatLifer]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

What bothers me is how Sam handles things/the writing for her re: Robin.

I'm not disagreeing with you at all. I think there should be a "thank you" directly to Robin, for sure.

I think they kinda allowed Sam to make a comment awhile back when Jason told her that he instantly recognized Robin on the bridge and what happened the night he was programmed to kill Sam and Sam called Robin his "guardian angel." So at least she acknowledges it to Jason.

But, like I said, I don't really care that much about Sam/Robin at the end of the day. I want Sam to move out the way so I can get my Jason/Robin scenes.

[YaddaYadda]

57 minutes ago, HeatLifer said:

I think there should be a "thank you" directly to Robin, for sure.

The writers don't care about these small relationships or acknowledging things between characters.

Most important question is why does Kim even keeps coming back? Girl, you escaped!

[LeftPhalange]

1 hour ago, dubbel zout said:

Even I can admit Valentin was wrong to keep Charlotte away from Lulu, but is he supposed to give Lulu full custody?

It's crazy that Lulu just expects Valentin to give full custody of his child to some woman he barely knows, a crazy one at that. It's unfortunate that Valentin kept Charlotte away from Lulu, but what's done is done, and right now he's more of a parent to the girl than she is. If Lulu actually sopped to think about someone other than herself and what she wants she would realize the best thing she could do given her circumstances is to share custody and build a relationship with Charlotte, THEN maybe try to get full custody in the future. 

[peachmangosteen]

42 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

If Lulu actually sopped to think about someone other than herself and what she wants she would realize the best thing she could do given her circumstances is to share custody and build a relationship with Charlotte, THEN maybe try to get full custody in the future. 

I think if they weren't gonna go that route they shouldn't have had Laura even bring it up. Now that they had Laura put it out there and make a super reasonable argument for it Lulu looks even crazier. Which, I guess, is maybe the entire point of this story. But if it is, that is a very strange point for them to make with this story. These writers are so bad I can't!

Edited December 31, 2016 by peachmangosteen

[LeftPhalange]

23 minutes ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think if they weren't gonna go that route they shouldn't have had Laura even bring it up. Now that they had Laura put it out there and make a super reasonable argument for it Lulu looks even crazier. Which, I guess, is maybe the entire point of this story. But if it is, that is a very strange point for them to make with this story. These writers are so bad I can't!

They already made Lulu the bad guy after Dante cheated (or at least they tried to) so I really don't know why they feel the need to do this again with her.

[Oracle42]

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

3 hours ago, Oracle42 said:

But nothing that he's done has been something that he had to do.  

I get your point, but it's not as if Sonny and Julian have to do the stuff they do, either. Sonny didn't have to kill AJ. Julian didn't have to kill Carlos. 

I agree that he's just as shitty as Julian/Sonny - but in terms of internal story logic, Julian killed Carlos because he was covering his ass like the POS coward that he's always been and Sonny killed AJ because he's a violent, childish POS without impulse control and Ava made him think AJ murdered Kannie. There is no reason at all for the shitty things that Valentin has done. He's not sterile and he was the beneficiary of Mikkos' (incredibly stupid, bullshit) retconned will. 

Edited December 31, 2016 by Oracle42

[Darklazr]

8 hours ago, movingtargetgal said:

Exactly!  Helena had Jake for years you would think Jason and Liz would be a tad interested in what happened to him.  Liz, Jason and Laura have been through this before when Helena faked Lucky's death, held him captive, programed him to do her bidding and then sent him back to his parents.  Helena also had Jason captive and programed him to be her "soldier".  Huge story potential wasted.    

Elizabeth / Jake CI story was dumped so that BH could try and make Franco and HateChel relevant on this show.  

[yowsah1]

Wishing everybody here at PTV a Happy New Year!  Here's hoping for a better 2017! :D

[Bringonthedrama]

1 hour ago, Darklazr said:

Elizabeth / Jake CI story was dumped so that BH could try and make Franco and HateChel relevant on this show.  

Jake and Liz's "story" - about Jake not getting along with other kids (after being returned to his family), his anger and then somewhat violent behavior - was tied to Franco with the art therapy crap. I agree Liz was used to make her 'sister' relevant. Blech.  

I remember a scene (when Jake was in the hospital) where Cam confessed to Jason that he didn't feel connected to Jake when he first came back. TPTB should have had Cam and Jake at odds with each other about the art thing, since Cam, Liz's first born, was the one who started doing art -  he had moments of connection with Liz here and there over that. Also, Jake gets the most attention because his father lives in Port Charles; Cam (and Aiden's) doesn't. Cam's life has been in a steady state of upheaval since he was a tot, between Lucky and Liz's on-again, off-again relationship, Lucky marrying Siobhan and then she's dead, moving in and out of Uncle Nikolas' home, losing Jake and then he's back in the family, etc. Cam, esp. now as a tween, should have anger directed toward both his mother and Jake (whether or not it seems justified).  

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Jake and Liz's "story" - about Jake not getting along with other kids (after being returned to his family), his anger and then somewhat violent behavior - was tied to Franco with the art therapy crap. I agree Liz was used to make her 'sister' relevant. Blech.  

I remember a scene (when Jake was in the hospital) where Cam confessed to Jason that he didn't feel connected to Jake when he first came back. TPTB should have had Cam and Jake at odds with each other about the art thing, since Cam, Liz's first born, was the one who started doing art -  he had moments of connection with Liz here and there over that. Also, Jake gets the most attention because his father lives in Port Charles; Cam (and Aiden's) doesn't. Cam's life has been in a steady state of upheaval since he was a tot, between Lucky and Liz's on-again, off-again relationship, Lucky marrying Siobhan and then she's dead, moving in and out of Uncle Nikolas' home, losing Jake and then he's back in the family, etc. Cam, esp. now as a tween, should have anger directed toward both his mother and Jake (whether or not it seems justified).  

 

That is why I wanted Cam to be SORASed. This Tom storyline would have worked better if Cam took the lead to protect Liz and her brothers, not Franco, but at the same time, he shouldn't because Liz is his mother and Tom is her issue. Cam is probably be the loneliest of Liz's children. Jake has Jakeson, at least Laura is in town and biologically, Aiden is her first born grandchild (whether Nik or Lucky is his father), while he has no biological relatives from Zander side. The men in his life that he would form bonds with, Lucky, Steve Webber, AJ Quartermaine, Matt Hunter, Patrick Drake, are now gone. Now his mother is pursuing a relationship with an obsessive serial killer (just because he stopped serial killing, doesn't make him an ex serial killer) that once kidnapped his new born brother and handed him over to his equally unstable mother. 

[Bringonthedrama]

24 minutes ago, Ambrosefolly said:

 Jake has Jakeson, at least Laura is in town and biologically, Aiden is her first born grandchild (whether Nik or Lucky is his father), while he has no biological relatives from Zander side. 

I remember JJ's Lucky saying "Grandma Laura" to Braden's Cam (during Christmas tree shopping) - in a scene with Elizabeth, and toddler Jake. So she has always been "Grandma" to him.  I believe Spencer is Laura's first born biological grandchild (just a little bit younger than Cam). I think he's about 11 years old now? Anyway, he's been raised by either Great-Grandma Lesley or Grandma Laura off-screen when he wasn't appearing as part of a storyline with Nikolas. 

[Ambrosefolly]

Oh yeah, forgot about Spencer. Maybe I am repressing. That is why I mentioned the biological connection, since Lucky does consider Cam his son, but it is harder to enforce the emotional connection when the person isn't even present to develop it.

[Darklazr]

15 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Jake and Liz's "story" - about Jake not getting along with other kids (after being returned to his family), his anger and then somewhat violent behavior - was tied to Franco with the art therapy crap. I agree Liz was used to make her 'sister' relevant. Blech.  

I remember a scene (when Jake was in the hospital) where Cam confessed to Jason that he didn't feel connected to Jake when he first came back. TPTB should have had Cam and Jake at odds with each other about the art thing, since Cam, Liz's first born, was the one who started doing art -  he had moments of connection with Liz here and there over that. Also, Jake gets the most attention because his father lives in Port Charles; Cam (and Aiden's) doesn't. Cam's life has been in a steady state of upheaval since he was a tot, between Lucky and Liz's on-again, off-again relationship, Lucky marrying Siobhan and then she's dead, moving in and out of Uncle Nikolas' home, losing Jake and then he's back in the family, etc. Cam, esp. now as a tween, should have anger directed toward both his mother and Jake (whether or not it seems justified).  

In order to write this story, the show would have to focus on (gasp!) veteran characters and know enough about Elizabeth's history to do it justice.  These clowns just used Elizabeth's rape story as a means to make a serial killing rapist kidnap another rapist and place him in a cage!

11 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

I remember JJ's Lucky saying "Grandma Laura" to Braden's Cam (during Christmas tree shopping) - in a scene with Elizabeth, and toddler Jake. So she has always been "Grandma" to him.  I believe Spencer is Laura's first born biological grandchild (just a little bit younger than Cam). I think he's about 11 years old now? Anyway, he's been raised by either Great-Grandma Lesley or Grandma Laura off-screen when he wasn't appearing as part of a storyline with Nikolas. 

Spencer was during Feb 2006 sweeps when Kung Fu Barbie finally, died!

[Darklazr]

11 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

Oh yeah, forgot about Spencer. Maybe I am repressing. That is why I mentioned the biological connection, since Lucky does consider Cam his son, but it is harder to enforce the emotional connection when the person isn't even present to develop it.

I have always hated how this show has treated Elizabeth's first born as an afterthought and never followed suit by having Lucky adopt Cam.  Lucky may consider Cam to be his son, but it's been since 2004 that the child has been on screen and the man never followed through on any legal paperwork.  How sad is that?

[Bringonthedrama]

11 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

That is why I wanted Cam to be SORASed. This Tom storyline would have worked better if Cam took the lead to protect Liz and her brothers, not Franco, but at the same time, he shouldn't because Liz is his mother and Tom is her issue. 

Cam is 12, or 13 now? I remember in 2010, JJ's Lucky said he was 6. So I agree, he should be slight SORASed to 15 (old enough to feel protective of his mother, as that's the age his mom was at the time of her rape).  The way this should have played out: he overhears Liz saying to Grandma Laura or maybe Uncle Dante (not Monica, as he has no connection to her) that she's feeling nervous and/or afraid because her rapist, Tom, is now out of prison. He 'researches', finds out what happened to Mom, and vows to protect her and his brothers since Dad is indefinitely MIA and Jason's only concerned about Jake now.  A good young actor could tap into Cam's anger that Dad isn't there to protect them, that there's been so much upheaval in his young life due mostly to Mom and Dad's choices, that he is the artist like Mom, not Jake.

TPTB poorly did something like that before, with the Dylan version of tween Michael, when he was turning into mini-Sonny/Jason, wanting to protect Carly and Morgan from danger. I think that's when he had a gun and accidentally shot Kate Howard? 

It would be great if something like that (would make sense if Cam briefly got himself kidnapped) resulted in Liz being a part-time sketch artist for the PCPD - anyone remember her drawing of Faison based on Olivia's description? Makes more sense than Nina running a magazine after 20 years in a coma/no work experience or ex-con Michael (who took a couple of classes at PCU?) running ELQ for any period of time. I loathe that Franco gets Elizabeth's art studio and all the art focus as a sociopath, while Elizabeth's long history of art is only utilized in the context of connecting with him. UGH!!

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, Darklazr said:

Lucky may consider Cam to be his son, but it's been since 2004 that the child has been on screen and the man never followed through on any legal paperwork.  How sad is that?

So dumb. It needed only a line to say it had happened.

[LeftPhalange]

1 hour ago, Bringonthedrama said:

Cam is 12, or 13 now? I remember in 2010, JJ's Lucky said he was 6. So I agree, he should be slight SORASed to 15 (old enough to feel protective of his mother, as that's the age his mom was at the time of her rape).  The way this should have played out: he overhears Liz saying to Grandma Laura or maybe Uncle Dante (not Monica, as he has no connection to her) that she's feeling nervous and/or afraid because her rapist, Tom, is now out of prison. He 'researches', finds out what happened to Mom, and vows to protect her and his brothers since Dad is indefinitely MIA and Jason's only concerned about Jake now.

Why would Cameron take Liez's claims of being worried about Tom seriously when she's currently dating a rapist serial killer who kidnapped one of his brothers?

If Cameron were going to go after anyone it should be Freako. Freako is actively in his life while Tom is someone he only read about on the internet. He would go after Freako primarily to protect himself and Aiden. He wouldn't be that concerned about Liez and DNAJ because he has massive amounts of resentment towards them and doesn't think Freako would do anything to them anyway. 

[Ambrosefolly]

25 minutes ago, LeftPhalange said:

Why would Cameron take Liez's claims of being worried about Tom seriously when she's currently dating a rapist serial killer who kidnapped one of his brothers?

If Cameron were going to go after anyone it should be Freako. Freako is actively in his life while Tom is someone he only read about on the internet. He would go after Freako primarily to protect himself and Aiden. He wouldn't be that concerned about Liez and DNAJ because he has massive amounts of resentment towards them and doesn't think Freako would do anything to them anyway. 

 

People, people! He should hate both of them! In fact, I think Cam would take a more proactive approach with Tom, seeing as his mother fails to date normal people. I think he would hate Franco too. 

[CreamedPeas]

After watching Friday's rerun with the scene of Scott and Ava talking about getting the pills back from Lucy that Ava switched out, I hope they don't just drop that story. Ava needs to answer for something. 

[dubbel zout]

She does, but I'm not sure how. The show obviously wants to keep MW around, so I doubt she'll be killed or put in jail for any length of time. Sonny already has Avery. Lauren is on her way to L.A. There aren't too many ways to hurt Ava.

[LeftPhalange]

16 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

There aren't too many ways to hurt Ava.

Death comes for for Avery and/or Kiki.

[ciarra]

Quote

Quote

I'd love to see if Nelle's "meds" are real and not just fakes.

 

Her huge "blood pressure" pills look like Altoids. 

[Bringonthedrama]

2 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

Why would Cameron take Liez's claims of being worried about Tom seriously when she's currently dating a rapist serial killer who kidnapped one of his brothers?

Sorry, I forget to mention my idea takes place in a GH world where the Franco character died w/the end of the vanity project of RL/actor Franco. We don't know what Cam knows about him (if he even knows Franco was responsible for newborn Aiden's kidnapping). But a kid will worry about his parent's fears, unless the fears have a history of being irrational or because of mental illness instead of a real danger.

In the GH world where Liz is dating Franco: As far as we know, so far, Cam has not overheard or witnessed Franco saying or doing something to harm his mother or brothers. Kids react to real and present danger. The only potential danger he knew of was coming from Jake, like a Halloween incident when Grandma Laura was babysitting, or when Jake broke the window and claimed it was a threatening person, to get his dad Jason to spend time with them.

[dubbel zout]

2 hours ago, LeftPhalange said:

3 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

There aren't too many ways to hurt Ava.

Death comes for for Avery and/or Kiki.

No way Sonny would intentionally kill his own kid, and Lauren is in L.A., for now. Too much trouble for Sonny to do anything to her there.

[peachmangosteen]

4 hours ago, Ambrosefolly said:

In fact, I think Cam would take a more proactive approach with Tom, seeing as his mother fails to date normal people. 

Honestly, I want Cam to be aged up and be all emo and shit over Liz and her horrible choices, but it might be more realistic if he's just numb to his mom dating horrible men and losing her mind over them. Like he's just so over it that he doesn't even care anymore. LMAO!

[LeftPhalange]

27 minutes ago, dubbel zout said:

No way Sonny would intentionally kill his own kid, and Lauren is in L.A., for now. Too much trouble for Sonny to do anything to her there.

Sonny doesn't have to do anything. Avery takes a bullet meant for Ava and Kiki runs into a shootout because she's stupid.

[Aurora2]

On 2016-12-31 at 7:12 PM, LeftPhalange said:

They already made Lulu the bad guy after Dante cheated (or at least they tried to) so I really don't know why they feel the need to do this again with her.

Maybe neither situation has been an attempt to make Lulu look like the "bad guy."   Maybe this is just how Jelly interpret Lulu's supposed "Spencer-ness" and her impulsive nature.   Sometimes Jelly can be really off base when it comes to GH characters.  

[stlbf]

10 hours ago, dubbel zout said:

So dumb. It needed only a line to say it had happened.

Lucky was going to adopt Cam. But stupidity happened. And then we had the divorce where Lucky was making threats about custody. Diane made it clear that Lucky had no rights to Cameron. His involvement was purely on Liz's say so. So I don't think that Liz was ever really gung ho about allowing any man to legally have more rights to her son.

A young teen Cam should be angry at Liz and Lucky. Lucky has pretty much abandoned him. Liz has been all about Jason for years. Things with Ric (whom Cameron always seemed to like) fell apart. Jake/Jason has also pretty much dropped out of his life. After all of Jason's talk about being there for the Webber boys, nothing. Cameron doesn't have a real male figure in his life. Lucky, Ric, Jason are all gone. He had Nik? He is gone now too.

Cam should be an insanely easy character to write for. Legacy character. Traumatic childhood. Add in Joss and let them discover that Carly cost Liz and Jax a baby. Add the whole Spencer as baby John junk. That'll add some angst to Joss' relationships with both of her parents. 

Of course, with Jelly nothing good or interesting would come of it.

[Bringonthedrama]

Yeah, both Matt and Patrick are gone from Cam's life, too.  I guess the only "male role model" he has now is Uncle Dante, whenever the boys see Lante and cousin Rocco.  Cam and Joss had scenes together during the kiddie quad awfulness.  Now Joss is mourning her brother, and Grandma Jane is ill/on her deathbed.  That's  enough for a teen-ager. I  also don't want to see Cam in any storyline touching Carly's life. His younger brother is Jason's kid, so he has to deal with the Mob'apologist' lifestyle somewhat as it is -in addition to mommy dating gross/crazy Franco. Poor Cam. 

[peachmangosteen]

I think Cam would/should blame Liz for the fact that all the male role models he had are now gone. I think it'd be realistic for him to still idolize all those men, but hate Liz. Plus it'd be better drama because Liz is actually on the show lol.

This probably belongs in the wish list thread tbh. I'll move it there.

Edited January 2, 2017 by peachmangosteen

[Ambrosefolly]

1 hour ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think Cam would/should blame Liz for the fact that all the male role models he had are now gone. I think it'd be realistic for him to still idolize all those men, but hate Liz. Plus it'd be better drama because Liz is actually on the show lol.

This probably belongs in the wish list thread tbh. I'll move it there.

 

I am taking my response to the Wishlist thread.

[Darklazr]

11 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

I think Cam would/should blame Liz for the fact that all the male role models he had are now gone. I think it'd be realistic for him to still idolize all those men, but hate Liz. Plus it'd be better drama because Liz is actually on the show lol.

This probably belongs in the wish list thread tbh. I'll move it there.

This crap had better not happen, especially to the ONLY adult that has been in those boys lives since they were born.  Elizabeth Imogene Webber is the one that takes care of Cameron, Jacob and Aiden, period.  Jason, Lucky, Ric, AJ, Jake Doe, and Zander all CHOSE to be with Elizabeth and it is NOT her lot in life to make those clowns man up and take care of their responsibilities.  I hate it when a relationship ends and somehow it is up to the woman to take a bunch of shit, because the man  is not around his children or pays child support.  Grrrrrrrrr.

[Bringonthedrama]

25 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

This crap had better not happen, especially to the ONLY adult that has been in those boys lives since they were born.  Elizabeth Imogene Webber is the one that takes care of Cameron, Jacob and Aiden, period.  Jason, Lucky, Ric, AJ, Jake Doe, and Zander all CHOSE to be with Elizabeth and it is NOT her lot in life to make those clowns man up and take care of their responsibilities.  

THIS, minus the AJ (not a father of her kids) and Zander mentions. Zander got shot to death before Cam was born. And before that I think Ric had a plan to force Zander to give up rights to Cam, because he wanted Liz and the baby to be with him? Liz as the only parent is especially obvious during Christmas -there's not a mention of the boys opening presents from Lucky or him having a Skype call with them. Lucky said good bye to Cam at Christmas years ago (when Aiden was an infant, Jake was "dead") and made it sound like he would be around for him in the future.  But he hasn't been. So Christmas should be a holiday associated with abandonment for Cam. 

It wouldn't be hard to do a scene where Cam and Aiden are with Grandma Laura on Christmas Eve (Jake's with Grandma Monica or whatever) and Cam has an outburst of anger that Dad left on Christmas, and never kept his promise to "be there for me"- instead I'm "stuck with Franco, watching Mom talk art with him, and them fawning over Jake. She's not even with us tonight - she went to the police station because Franco's in trouble! Grandma, can you get my dad to come back? Please?!" 

[Darklazr]

2 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

THIS, minus the AJ (not a father of her kids) and Zander mentions. Zander got shot to death before Cam was born. And before that I think Ric had a plan to force Zander to give up rights to Cam, because he wanted Liz and the baby to be with him? Liz as the only parent is especially obvious during Christmas -there's not a mention of the boys opening presents from Lucky or him having a Skype call with them. Lucky said good bye to Cam at Christmas years ago (when Aiden was an infant, Jake was "dead") and made it sound like he would be around for him in the future.  But he hasn't been. So Christmas should be a holiday associated with abandonment for Cam. 

It wouldn't be hard to do a scene where Cam and Aiden are with Grandma Laura on Christmas Eve (Jake's with Grandma Monica or whatever) and Cam has an outburst of anger that Dad left on Christmas, and never kept his promise to "be there for me"- instead I'm "stuck with Franco, watching Mom talk art with him, and them fawning over Jake. She's not even with us tonight - she went to the police station because Franco's in trouble! Grandma, can you get my dad to come back? Please?!" 

No way!  I want Cam, Jake and Aiden to be the ones that know their MOTHER took care of them no matter what asshat male she was with at the time.  To be clear, I hated that Guza kept writing in BH's pregnancies and giving her (Elizabeth) all of these kids in the first place!  Sheesh.  I can see Elizabeth having three children over a course of 30 or 40 years on the show, but to write in FIVE (Ric, Zander, Jax, Jason, and Lucky) different baby stories in a span of seven years (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010)?  WTF was Guza thinking?!  

Elizabeth has always and it pains me to say this, went to bat for whatever man was in her life at the time and it ALWAYS ends up blowing up in her face.  Lucky.  Zander.  Jason.  Ric.  AJ.  Ewen.  Jake Doe.  And now the biggest waste of space, Franco.  Blech.  

Cam should be giving hell to ANY man that sets foot in his home, especially Jason with his lies about being there for all three boys.

Oh.  It annoys the hell out of me that the writers did not use Tom Baker's return as a way to send Elizabeth to therapy to deal with her abandonment issues from 1997 and a host of issues since she was raped as a teen.

Edited January 3, 2017 by Darklazr

[Bringonthedrama]

8 minutes ago, Darklazr said:

No way!  I want Cam, Jake and Aiden to be the ones that know their MOTHER took care of them no matter what asshat male she was with at the time.  To be clear, I hated that Guza kept writing in BH's pregnancies and giving her (Elizabeth) all of these kids in the first place!  Sheesh.  I can see Elizabeth having three children over a course of 30 or 40 years on the show, but to write in FIVE (Ric, Zander, Jax, Jason, and Lucky) different baby stories in a span of seven years (2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2010)?  WTF was Guza thinking?!  

Elizabeth has always and it pains me to say this, went to bat for whatever man was in her life at the time and it ALWAYS ends up blowing up in her face.  Lucky.  Zander.  Jason.  Ric.  AJ.  Ewen.  Jake Doe.  And now the biggest waste of space, Franco.  Blech.  

Cam should be giving hell to ANY man that sets foot in his home, especially Jason with his lies about being there for all three boys.

Oh.  It annoys the hell out of me that the writers did not use Tom Baker's return as a way to send Elizabeth to therapy to deal with her abandonment issues from 1997 and a host of issues since she was raped as a teen.

Oh, don't misunderstand - the boys should be well aware that Liz has been their consistent parent. I'm talking about Cam's memory of feeling loved and having stability, when he spent time with both Lucky and Liz (regardless of living situations). Lucky and Liz were great together at just parenting, and being friends (with either GV or JJ as Lucky). Cam would run to Lucky to hug him. Also, it's been indicated that Liz is seeing/leaning on Franco because she has no one (other than off-screen Grams) to be there for her and all three boys. Yes Laura offers some support, but Spencer now being an orphan/'danger' from Valentin and Lulu, Dante, Rocco and now Charlotte are her top priorities .... I think Lucky returning would probably make a difference re: Franco in Liz and the boys' lives.

[stlbf]

5 hours ago, Bringonthedrama said:

THIS, minus the AJ (not a father of her kids) and Zander mentions. Zander got shot to death before Cam was born. And before that I think Ric had a plan to force Zander to give up rights to Cam, because he wanted Liz and the baby to be with him? Liz as the only parent is especially obvious during Christmas -there's not a mention of the boys opening presents from Lucky or him having a Skype call with them. Lucky said good bye to Cam at Christmas years ago (when Aiden was an infant, Jake was "dead") and made it sound like he would be around for him in the future.  But he hasn't been. So Christmas should be a holiday associated with abandonment for Cam. 

My issue is that I just have a hard time believing that Cam would even call Lucky "Dad". Lucky couldn't even be bothered to stay when he brought Jake back from Cassadine island. Cam should have major issues with Lucky and Liz. Conflicting feelings over his mom. Lucky initially left the house because of her actions. But he has chosen to stay away from the kids for YEARS NOW. Liz should get a ton of crap from Cam. Guys have gotten extremely close to her boys and the boys have been left in the dust. 

Re: Zander. Ric and Liz requested Zander sign his rights over to Ric. And he originally was going to do just that. But he suddenly decided to change his mind. And the stupidity of the end of Zander I refuse to rehash. Hated everything about that story.

5 hours ago, Darklazr said:

No way!  I want Cam, Jake and Aiden to be the ones that know their MOTHER took care of them no matter what asshat male she was with at the time.

Elizabeth has always and it pains me to say this, went to bat for whatever man was in her life at the time and it ALWAYS ends up blowing up in her face.  Lucky.  Zander.  Jason.  Ric.  AJ.  Ewen.  Jake Doe.  And now the biggest waste of space, Franco.  Blech.  

Cam should be giving hell to ANY man that sets foot in his home, especially Jason with his lies about being there for all three boys.

Yes, Liz has been the sole parent for the majority of her sons' lives. But that can be a double edged sword. She should have her boys' love but she should also be dealing with the anger. As she is the only parental figure to lash out at for a teen Cam. Lucky isn't there to be shouted at. Liz is. 

And yeah, Cam should be crazy wary at any man sniffing around his mom. Liz hasn't really had a healthy relationship with a man. Lucky was her first love. But always ended horribly. Jason wouldn't chose Liz over Sonny. Same with Ric. Later it was Ric's need to control Liz that ended things. Along with freaking secret Jason bringing up feelings. Nik was her bff, dead bff's husband and Lucky's brother. Ewen was short term and a psycho. Now there is the ultimate Jason obsessed fan, the reformed serial killer and current control freak, Franco.

I would kill to see a teen Cam tell Franco and Jason off. They both deserve it. Jason hasn't kept his word to Cam and Aiden. Franco should be desperately trying to buy the Webber boys' approval. Not just Jake's. Cam should be telling Franco that he isn't buying his crap about change. And just being sweet to mother if Franco tells Liz that Cam hates him.

Edited January 3, 2017 by stlbf

[WendyCR72]

Liz was the only parent to her kids and they should love her. That said, as above, Liz has also given these boys issues out the yin-yang. I mean, Ric, Jason, Lucky...all have been covered. But even putting Liz's...whatevers...with them aside, Liz was too happy to wake them up at un-Godly hours so she could make another ridiculous choice with no regard to those kids, a la screwing Nik, when he was going to leave town, as Liz once more cheated on Lucky.

I'm under zero illusions about Lucky. He is his own father's son, a deadbeat as a father. And to abandon the kids sucks. That said, the impetus for him to even had done that maybe could have been avoided if Liz didn't emotionally cheat with Jason long before her flight up those stairs the night she and Jason conceived Jake and then proceeded to not learn her lessons there and cheat on him again - with his brother.

Am I saying Liz's sons should despise her? No. But I can understand - if these kids ever age - if they do have disgust for her actions as they were made often in selfishness and thoughtlessness, ironically made worse because she was their only so-called solid parent. Because those actions - which she continues to perpetuate closing in on 40 (assuming the character/actor ages are now almost reconciled here) - are now ingrained and almost a shade pathetic now. That whole family would benefit from intense counseling.

And I say this as one not fond of Liz and not as a joke: Liz needs to back away from men until she can break her cycle of going after the worst men she can find.

[WendyCR72]

And now to say this as I am reading the thread: Any further discussion should probably go to Liz's thread. Oops! But by all means, do continue. This is a lot more interesting than anything the show can offer up.

[NutmegsDad]

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 5:39 PM, dubbel zout said:

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:55 PM, LeftPhalange said:

On ‎1‎/‎1‎/‎2017 at 2:37 PM, dubbel zout said:

There aren't too many ways to hurt Ava.

Death comes for for Avery and/or Kiki.

No way Sonny would intentionally kill his own kid, and Lauren is in L.A., for now. Too much trouble for Sonny to do anything to her there.

Yeah, Sonny doesn't hurt innocent people.... things just Rube Goldberg so that other people hurt innocent people with his hands clean, like Carly observes. But hey, live for the moment.

[dubbel zout]

8 hours ago, stlbf said:

Lucky couldn't even be bothered to stay when he brought Jake back from Cassadine island.

That was shoehorned in with TG's retirement, unfortunately. Even if JJ couldn't stick around longer, they could have said that Lucky was spending time with the boys offscreen. They really don't want Lucky to have any ties to anyone in Port Charles, for some reason. I'm surprised they had him come to Nik's service, even if we didn't see him.

[TeeVee329]

I really don't understand why it's so hard for the show to acknowledge Lucky being an off-screen parent, they do a decent job of it with Jax/Joss and, in reverse, with Maxie/Georgie.  I feel like it's the show trying to cement whatever guy Liz is with as the father figure of her boys.  Look how fast any bond Cam and Aiden formed with Jake(son) was abandoned once he was revealed as Jason.