Episode Discussion: TFGH

[Yolapukka]

 

That wasn't the time to make the distinction I don't think. I think "My daughter . . . or granddaughter . . . will want for nothing" would have more than a little broken up the gravitas of the scene.

 

He could have said "She's my Blood, She'll want for nothing." There are quite a few ways he could have referenced little baby whatsit without seeming to distance himself emotionally from her.  I'm inclined to think him not claiming her was a conscious writing choice.

Edited November 7, 2014 by yuggapukka

[testardo]

LOL so true.

 

Anyone find it weird that  Lucy was lecturing scott forever about giving Franco a chance but yesterday she was like dude is crazy lol.I mean not that I care never understood why she was a franco fan in first place lol.

 

 

I am beginning to think the whole show is cray cray, including EP and HW. They have to be if they think this is entertaining. Anna is the only one not nuts , but she is certainly stupid lately.MAybe they should just film in an institution.

[TeeVee329]

Anyone find it weird that  Lucy was lecturing scott forever about giving Franco a chance but yesterday she was like dude is crazy lol.I mean not that I care never understood why she was a franco fan in first place lol.

 

I certainly did.  For whatever reason, the writers made Lucy a member of Team!Franco from the start, with her constantly trying to get Scotty to give him a chance.  So her being all, "He's a total loony and always has been!" yesterday was, while refreshing, not really keeping in what we saw previously.

Edited November 7, 2014 by TeeVee329

[movinon]

Anybody else disgusted by LUcy and felicia drooling over sonny and his dimples today.

ABSOLUTELY.......and equally disgusted by anyone else that has any connection to Sonny, except Michael.  Unfortunately that includes Morgan right now, even though I really like the character.  I am disgusted by the violence displayed on this show daily, and my Sonny hate is completely off the charts.  My disgust spreads equally to Carly, Shawn, Duke, Max, etc. etc.

Edited November 7, 2014 by movinon

[dubbel zout]

Yet he can suddenly morph into a killer again over the father he barely knew

 

Most of Michael's anger is about the lie and the trust it shattered. I think that's the bigger issue with him. Of course he's sad about AJ, but if he'd been killed in a car accident or something non-Sonny related, this anger would be much more tempered. Drew Garrett's Michael had a hair-trigger temper that was smoothed over after the coma (which was when Chad Duell took over, I think?), but CD's Michael could always erupt when he was pushed beyond his limits. The anger has always been there; it's just manifested itself differently with the different actors.

 

I just don't agree with this at all, so I shall agree to disagree.

 

Fair enough! It's what keeps the discussion interesting.

Edited November 7, 2014 by dubbel zout

[CPP83]

He could have said "She's my Blood, She'll want for nothing." There are quite a few ways he could have referenced little baby whatsit without seeming to distance himself from her.  I'm inclined to think him not claiming her was a conscious writing choice.

 

 

 

I am of the firm belief 97.5% of the writing for this show is not conscious. I think they write up ideas and then tape pieces of paper up on the wall and throw darts to see what they'll go with.

 

This show functions like the game "Clue". "Nina did it...in the Brownstone...why she stole Ava's baby! Huzzah!"

 

 

 

Most of Michael's anger is about the lie and the trust it shattered

 

 

 

 

But yet they have him poised to do harm, true harm to Sonny and that to me is where things just feel too rushed and hurried and, imo, they didn't have to be. It's as if they had him go from 0 to 100 and the buildup that should have been there just wasn't.

 

At least have Michael confront Sonny first weapon free, they could then hash it out, and Michael could hear all of Sonny's lousy, useless excuses, and then have Michael leave and let it fester, let the thoughts of revenge begin to take hold, to take over and then have him grab a gun and leave in a wild craze of emotions.

 

Heck, they could have had him go to the Q crypt to see AJ, especially now that he knows what Ava and Sonny did, and have a breakdown first as well, feeling the weight of it all, of the betrayals and lies and have him emerge as "Mykill" ready to avenge what was taken away from both he and AJ.

 

Like I said it's like this show goes so fast in one direction and then so slow in the other, it just creates a disconnect for me.

 

ETA:

 

Why couldn't Michael have just directed all of this first at the SERIAL KILLER? I mean Sonny is a good target and all but so is Franco. *sighs*

 

Fair enough! It's what keeps the discussion interesting.

 

 

 

 

That it does, without you good bunch to discuss this show with I really would have no reason to keep watching, there'd just be no point.

Edited November 7, 2014 by CPP83

[Cobalt Stargazer]

Right now his kidnapped son wants to kill him for killing his bio father. WHEN THIS GIRL GROWS UP DON"T YOU THINK SHE WILL Want to kill him for killing her mother. daughter or granddaughter.

 

[Kill Bill Volume One]"It was not my intention to do this in front of you. For that I'm sorry. But you can take my word for it, your mother had it comin'. When you grow up, if you still feel raw about it, I'll be waiting."[/Kill Bill Volume One]

 

With that said, Ron wishes he was capable of putting together something even half as good as Quentin Tarantino's worst work. I don't mind Michael taking a gun and going after Sonny, because this is what Sonny has taught Michael to do. I'm not sure that Chad has it in him to play the righteous vigilante, as most of the edges of his Michael have been planed down to smoothness. And as someone else noted, those Betty Boop lips don't spell 'menacing' to me, they spell 'pouty child'. The only thing that separates Michael from being exactly like Morgan is that Michael is only now discovering, without a doubt, that his parents don't give one shitty damn about anyone but themselves, and Sonny might finally reap a smidge of what he sowed when he stole the kid as an infant. Whether it's a bullet or a "Don't ever speak to me again", as long as it's something I'll be satisfied. The only thing Sonny even pretends to care about is whether or not Michael loves him, and to lose that at last would be the worst thing that could happen to him. Outside of being locked up in the smallest jail cell imaginable, I mean.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Cobalt Stargazer

[peachmangosteen]

Whether it's a bullet or a "Don't ever speak to me again", as long as it's something I'll be satisfied. 

 

Same. Like I'm super easy in this case.

 

I am so looking forward to today's episode. I hope it lives up to my expectations. Well, the Sonny/Michael scenes at least. I don't have high hopes for anything else.

Edited November 7, 2014 by peachmangosteen

[Happywatcher]

I guess the illegality comes into the "expectation of privacy" laws. If he'd recorded the confession in a public place like Kelly's, it might be admissable. But in private? Don't think so. I also don't think the rumor about Sonny marrying Carly is going to matter, because there would be no spousal priviledge unless they were married at the time. So basically Sonny can probably walk, even though he confessed? Somehow...I'm not shocked.The evidence is most likely admissible. Franco commited a crime in recording the conversation, but he was not working for the police/government at the time, nor at their behest via a third party, nor with the goal of trapping Sonny into a statement for the crime of murder, so Franco's illegal act shouldn't cause the evidence against Sonny to be excluded.

 

ETA: Another poster, smarter, pointed out New York has a special law to keep this recording out. Everything I wrote below is wrong in NY state.

 

Think of it as if Franco broke into an apartment to steal something, and saw Sonny murder someone while there. His evidence is admissible against Sonny, even though Franco was pulling a B&E at the time and can be charged with that crime.

 

As for Carly, she has a recorded prior statement against interest. Even if she marries Sonny, that statement is still out there.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Happyshooter

[Bishop]

And if he does then he's no better then Sonny, especially if the people in his life go about hiding his crime and covering it up for him.

 

 

I'm not sure I expect him to be so much better than Sonny as to have been corrupted by him.  So far, Michael has not killed in cold-blood nor wanted to murder someone (well except for Carter).  Let's remember also that Michael has anger issues as a result of the brain damage he suffered from the shooting.  So I expect him to be violent and angry at times.  Like Dante said, he hides it, and people aren't aware, but it's there.

 

That is my point, if he's meant to suddenly morph into Michael Q by committing the sort of act only a son of Sonny Corinthos would, thinking in a very Corinthos manner seeking revenge? It's backwards, Michael is supposedly a "good" character, he can make good decisions, he doesn't have to use violence against Sonny, he can make a choice.

 

 

I hate how RC is morphing BM's Jakeson into Jason Q just to suit the actor's personality.  It's happening too fast and too sudden, and it makes no sense to me.  I hate BM's Jakeson right now.  Michael is enough like Jason and the Quartermaines for me to believe his transition, and it would be unrealistic for him NOT to have a violent background having been raised a Corinthos.  I think he would be written much more into character as a hybrid of the too, part Corinthos/Jason Morgan/Quartermaine than just "becoming" a Quartermaine.  I would't buy that at all.

They can play this as he's gone out of his mind with anger but that just doesn't cut it for me, because that's the same excuse Sonny made which brings Michael right back around to being just like the man who raised him, not AJ's son.

And if going against how he was raised is OOC isn't that the point of this?

 

I think there's a difference between acting out violently in the moment and become a contract killer like Jason or a crime syndicate boss like Sonny.  Michael should be a grey character, even as a Quartermaine.  He can't be all good like Ned because Michael had a very different upbringing.  That's all I'm saying.

 

They had him embracing AJ pretty quick and now all of a sudden he just loved and adored the man so much he's willing to potentially kill his adoptive father who has been in his life since practically the beginning without even blinking. Seriously, Chad playing dead eyed Michael is making him look almost zombie like to me.

 

 

I absolutely loved it.  I loved Chad's calm, icy anger.  As for AJ, it wasn't sudden how he embraced AJ.  He hated AJ when he first showed up, but then Michael found out (shocking) that his parents lied to him about AJ.  He didn't know how Carly had manipulated AJ and got him to fall off the wagon and all the rest of it.  It took a while for Michael to reconnect with AJ, and it didn't happen overnight.  That being said, Michael always said that Sonny was still his father.  He told Kiki that when he thinks of his father, he thinks of Sonny, not AJ.  Michael was simply trying to get to know his bio father, and the more time he spent with him, the more he liked him.  He realized that he did love AJ, and that's normal.  It IS his father.  Any kid wants to get to know is father, but even then, Michael always was loyal to Sonny.  Even after AJ was murdered, he completely believed Sonny's lies.  THAT'S where Michael's rage is coming from.  It's not that he suddenly hates his father.  It's a bunch of things:  Michael knows that Sonny murdered AJ even after giving Michael his word.  Sonny knows Michael was broken hearted over AJ's death and yet Sonny covered it up.  Sonny had SEX in his father's crypt the day of the funeral.  If that isn't pissing on someone's grave, I don't know what is, and lastly, and most importantly, Sonny was seen showing absolute contempt for AJ in that video.  There is no remorse regarding AJ's death.  THAT is what is killing Michael.  It's that Sonny doesn't seem to care about Michael's feelings towards his bio dad.  It's all about Sonny.  That's what Michael is seeing.  I actually like Sonny.  So I'm more prone to forgive him as a character, but I completely get Michael's rage towards him.  Sonny and Carly used and manipulated Michael to keep the truth a secret, and the hell with Michael's feelings.

 

I don't care what they have Dante saying, and he didn't even look like he believed the words coming out of his mouth though Dom normally looks that way and who could blame him, about Michael having another "side", it's just mere nonsense to excuse what is to come. God forbid Michael actually learn from all the shit in his past.

 

 

You don't remember the angry, violent Michael that came out of prison and how Dante was constantly putting out fires (along with Jason)?  It's not manufactured.  Dante had Michael live with him after prison, and so he knows better than most how angry Michael can get. 

 

Ffs this same show had AJ kidnap Michael and toy with his mind and emotions in hopes of getting him back on his side, having Michael loyal to anyone to this degree is really a stretch frankly. Except maybe Jason but I won't even go there, the less said about him the better.

This show speeds things up and then goes slow in other areas and to me it's ridiculous.

 

 

I agree on these points.  The less said about "Jason," the better, and yes, RC stops and starts the storylines too much or suddenly pays special attention to certain relationships if it serves the plot.  That being said, I am loving November sweeps so far.

 

Michael's all over the place and none of what he is doing is saying to me that he's becoming a "Q", far from it. A mental breakdown however? I'd say yes to that.

 

I don't want Michael becoming a full Q.  I agree, it would be unrealistic and rushed.  I think, frankly, people hate Sonny so much that they want Michael to renounce him and move on.  That doesn't mean he should instantly become a Q.  I think I'd prefer to see him spiral out of control also, but no drinking.  That's the one thing I don't want to see Michael doing - ever.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Bishop

[Francie]

The evidence is most likely admissible. Franco commited a crime in recording the conversation, but he was not working for the police/government at the time, nor at their behest via a third party, nor with the goal of trapping Sonny into a statement for the crime of murder, so Franco's illegal act shouldn't cause the evidence against Sonny to be excluded.

 

Imagine this scenario. You're the chief of police:

 

A pissed off ex-fiancé brings to you a recording. He says it's a recording of his ex and her ex confessing to a crime. Trust him, he says, it ain't doctored. Have your experts check it out! Oh, and he's also a famous serial killer who once murdered some of his victims, photographed them, and hung their pictures in a museum where unsuspecting patrons thought they were viewing models. No good DA would touch that evidence. It'd blow up in your face worse than the glove in OJ's trial. 

 

Even if the DA wanted to, New York statute specifically says illegal recordings are not admissible. It all has to do with Franco not recording himself talking with someone. He's electronically eavesdropping others, and that can't be used. New York sate law is clear about that (the federal government and its own wiretapping under the Patriot Act is a whole different discussion).

 

To address what someone said upthread, when Dante brought up the legality of the tape, he meant as use as evidence as Sonny. The show didn't even touch on how illegal it was for Franco to do what he did. Like they will never they touch on how invasive it was.

 

If only the Scotty weren't the DA, or didn't have this odd attachment for the 45-year-old serial killing son.  Because, to me, the most fun scenario to come out of this would be for Carly to say, "Oh yeah, well Franco and I ran off with AJ's (or was it Connie's - I switch those 2 crimes up) phone and we destroyed evidence after the fact," and have the DA decide to give Carly the immunity and prosecute Franco based on Carly's (and Spinelli's and Ellie's corroborating testimony -- as they can confirm the two where there together, wanted to listen to something, etc.).  Let this revenge moment of his come back to bite his ass.

 

Edited to add the New York statute:

 

"§  4506.  Eavesdropping evidence; admissibility; motion to suppress in  certain  cases.  1.  The  contents  of   any   overheard   or   recorded  communication,   conversation   or   discussion,   or  evidence  derived therefrom, which has been obtained by conduct constituting the crime  of  eavesdropping, as defined by section 250.05 of the penal law, may not be received  in  evidence  in  any  trial, hearing or proceeding before any  court or grand jury, or before any  legislative  committee,  department, officer,  agency, regulatory body, or other authority of the state, or a  political   subdivision   thereof;   provided,   however,   that    such  communication, conversation, discussion or evidence, shall be admissible  in  any  civil or criminal trial, hearing or proceeding against a person who has, or is alleged to have, committed such crime of eavesdropping."

 

That means that the only person the recording can be used against is Franco, for having made it in the first place.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Francie

[kristabell]

But spousal privilege actually wouldn't apply at all. First, a person does not HAVE TO refuse to testify against their spouse; they can choose to, but they can also choose to testify. Also, privilege does not apply to communications which happened before the marriage. I know this is Soap Law , but I hate when writers use this kind of stuff as a cheap way to write around their own plot problems.

[Dandesun]

 

Franco commited a crime in recording the conversation, but he was not working for the police/government at the time, nor at their behest via a third party, nor with the goal of trapping Sonny into a statement for the crime of murder, so Franco's illegal act shouldn't cause the evidence against Sonny to be excluded.

 

They did this on OLTL when they had Neela record Jack's confession to shutting Gigi in the cellar and I don't even remember anyone talking about legality or illegality... but since it was Jack (Todd and Blair's delinquent son) and Gigi died as a result of being locked in the cellar (and then turning on a generator that leaked carbon monoxide... but the it was totes retconned so that it was Gigi's sister who had plastic surgery to look just like her and went to drag her out and... you know what? I can barely even remember and it was stupid and bizarre but whatever) and Gigi was like the town sweetheart the cops could not have cared less if it was legal or not.

 

This... with Sonny and Carly being the ones implicating themselves and they are the main players in Port Charles... that's different.

[ulkis]

He could have said "She's my Blood, She'll want for nothing." There are quite a few ways he could have referenced little baby whatsit without seeming to distance himself emotionally from her.  I'm inclined to think him not claiming her was a conscious writing choice.

 

"Our blood" sounds a wee bit 19th century gothic novel though. I mean, it could have been Sonny distancing himself on purpose. But if someone found themselves stuck in the position of murdering their potential baby mama . . . er, somehow . . . and you wanted to reassure them that their child is gonna be okay, I think "your daughter" would come out naturally.

 

The Qs have been violent in the past. Maybe Michael got the "try to cave in the roof on the lovers" gene.

 

 

Michael is only now discovering, without a doubt, that his parents don't give one shitty damn about anyone but themselves, and Sonny might finally reap a smidge of what he sowed when he stole the kid as an infant. Whether it's a bullet or a "Don't ever speak to me again", as long as it's something I'll be satisfied. The only thing Sonny even pretends to care about is whether or not Michael loves him, and to lose that at last would be the worst thing that could happen to him. Outside of being locked up in the smallest jail cell imaginable, I mean.

 

This is why I wouldn't mind a "Sonny has to live above Kelly's" story either. Could you imagine Sonny having to find his own towels? Not having someone driving him around all the time? Having to carry his own girlfriends up the stairs? He wouldn't be able to make it. 

[jsbt]

I recall Anna saying something about getting Michael's consent re the recording being done at his place making it admissible. I suspect he'll sign the consent forms. 

 

Thank you, I remember this as well. Anna said Michael makes the recording admissable. Provided he doesn't have a Dante Attack like what went down after Sonny shot his other son in the chest (please, no).

 

I think Sonny and Ava are the same. Both feel "bad" about some of the things they do, but never stop doing them. Power and their business means more to them than anything else in their life. That's what Sonny told Brenda to make her divorce him three years ago and it's still true. (That's when they should've given up on love stories for Sonny unless he changed, too, because that episode said it all.)

[ch1]

I don't want Michael becoming a full Q.  I agree, it would be unrealistic and rushed.  I think, frankly, people hate Sonny so much that they want Michael to renounce him and move on.  That doesn't mean he should instantly become a Q.  I think I'd prefer to see him spiral out of control also, but no drinking.  That's the one thing I don't want to see Michael doing - ever.

 

 

I don't know, in terms of how Sonny and Carly constantly used alcoholism against AJ it would be interesting seeing them turn themselves into pretzels and talk about how Michael had an addiction and that he needed help.  The hypocrisy would be on full blast. 

[movinon]

 

 

Also perhaps it's due to me refusing to stop clinging to the past, when stories were written about people and not just mob thugs and serial killers and generally horrible people without remorse or conscious, but I miss the big, dramatic, showdowns where the weapons were the best weapons to use, words.

No one had to pretend to be some vigilante gunslinger, no one had to be "looking death in the eye" to be completely trounced and destroyed, it was all verbal, it was watching a majestic beat-down with a person's emotions and feelings as their billy-clubs, and I miss that.

I understand what you are saying and it's just the nature of the show we are watching.  I remember when GH was about a hospital and the people were sane and intelligent, and I miss that, too.  This is very interesting for those of us who are also watching Y&R, along with GH.  On Y&R, at this very moment, a popular character is being destroyed, lives are being turned upside down, and a man's supposed daughter is being taken away.  In spite of the fact that nutty JFP is in charge, this story is being played out as more explosive, and no guns or violence are present. It is being done with emotions and words, and it is more riveting than the mob shit, no matter whose side you are on.  In my dream world, I would like Michael to shoot Sonny's penis off, but in reality, Michael would go to prison again.  I think most people who watch regularly just hate Sonny so much, myself included, that there is nothing bad enough to punish him, and we are enjoying his downfall.  I am a bit ashamed of my total enjoyment, but that little orange man and everyone connected to him compose a smelly pile of manure, in my opinion.   

Edited November 8, 2014 by movinon

[Francie]

I recall Anna saying something about getting Michael's consent re the recording being done at his place making it admissible. I suspect he'll sign the consent forms.

 

Thank you, I remember this as well. Anna said Michael makes the recording admissable. Provided he doesn't have a Dante Attack like what went down after Sonny shot his other son in the chest (please, no).

 

That's Ron law. Which sadly only bears a passing resemblance to real law. It's like reading instructions as to how to hot wire a car with a banana.

 

The lesson is:  please don't this at home, kids. It's really, really illegal and it'll get you in a lot of trouble. And possibly with a life-long sex offender label.

[movinon]

If Mo really did re-sign and if he and Ron had the talent to pull it off, a Sonny breakdown story could be really interesting.

Sonny in a robe and wheelchair locked away in Shadybrooke, completely stripped out of his power could be an interesting story.

I'll take this, if he can't die or go to prison.  Problem is, we would still have to look at him occasionally - good thing the show is after lunch.

[CPP83]

You don't remember the angry, violent Michael that came out of prison and how Dante was constantly putting out fires (along with Jason)?

 

 

 

 

Honestly I hated everything going on during that time so I didn't watch much or pay attention, however I do remember catching glimpses from time to time and still to me the level they have him at now doesn't match, but as I said that's just my take on things.

 

What happened then also isn't what is happening now, what set Michael off in those days is not the trigger here so I wouldn't compare the two because the situations are so different. One big difference being Michael was harmed by a cold stranger, this is his father now he's having to deal with.

 

I get your points about where his rage very realistically could be coming from, but to me the show isn't doing a very good job making that clear. Everything is jumping around, Michael is as well, and while I did loathe Guza one thing he did do was make a path for the characters to wind down, from point A to B to C, etc, but Ron just throws a bunch of things up into the air and wherever they land is what we see, there's no clarity of thought of vision, at least not enough of the time. A jumble mess is what I think about matters most of the time, and this storyline is no different to me.

 

I feel that Michael's "Mykill" transformation has been far too manufactured to get the end result Ron wants and in record time, there's just  been hardly any real build up and I feel there should be. There should be more to this than Michael merely screaming at Sonny for a little while about his pain and hurt and then aiming a gun at him. Sonny isn't just some murderous stranger who shot AJ, as Michael presumed, he is his father so to me there's so much there to play around with, as I mentioned in another post.

 

 

I don't want Michael becoming a full Q.  I agree, it would be unrealistic and rushed.  I think, frankly, people hate Sonny so much that they want Michael to renounce him and move on.  That doesn't mean he should instantly become a Q.  I think I'd prefer to see him spiral out of control also, but no drinking.  That's the one thing I don't want to see Michael doing - ever.

 

 

 

Well he is AJ's son and this is Ron's show so I would never say never about the drinking. If anything I could see that being a huge angle Ron plays up, especially if he's giving Michael an "overhaul" personality wise.

 

 

I think there's a difference between acting out violently in the moment and become a contract killer like Jason or a crime syndicate boss like Sonny.  Michael should be a grey character, even as a Quartermaine.  He can't be all good like Ned because Michael had a very different upbringing.  That's all I'm saying.

 

 

 

My point was that in the moment of killing AJ Sonny was acting out of rage, pointless and stupid rage but he didn't shoot him due to being in the mob or being a crime boss, he shot him out of emotion, something that can happen to anyone.

 

Sonny didn't show up at Ava's condo intending to murder AJ, it was not premeditated, that was my point. If Michael were to shoot Sonny because of how he's feeling in the moment then the two situations are similar, imo, and Michael would be reacting exactly as Sonny did that day.

 

I guess in this case to me two wrongs do not make a right, especially if it then leads to Sonny still not dead and people having to shield Michael, yet again, from getting sent away as well.

 

 

That being said, I am loving November sweeps so far.

 

 

 

I'm not, heh, but it's good you are.

[CookieBud]

Ava has no remorse either.  Who is she remorseful about killing?  She's certainly not upset about Connie's death except that it has put a hit out on her own life.  She was fine with shooting Olivia and sending Carlos to prison for a crime he didn't do just to save her own ass.  She certainly was fine with killing Michael, and the only reason she felt even slightly uncomfortable about it was because of how it would impact Kiki.  She didn't give a crap about Michael.  She also hasn't lost any sleep over her part in AJ's murder.  Her showing compassion for Jakeson would have been for her to call the police.  She called Jordan so she wouldn't catch any blame.  Silas is a previous lover.  Sonny has showed pangs of compassion for other people too, but he is heartless about other things.  Ava is no different.

 

Ava is EXACTLY like Sonny.  She will kill, manipulate, and lie to cover her own ass.  She's lied to her own daughter over and over to achieve an end.  How is she better than Sonny?  I'm not seeing that at all.

 

 

That's true of everyone:  Sonny, Ava, and Franco - and Nina and Madeline.  No one is going to prison.  There will be trials, arrests, and proceedings, but in the end, they will all get off.  Sonny and Ava actually have a good chance of getting off because there's no hard evidence.  The recordings are very questionable as evidence.  The cops need witnesses, and I can see Sonny and Ava covering for each other to keep them out of prison.  Like I said,they are exactly alike.  .

We'll just have to agree to disagree about Ava.  There are more ways to skin a cat and Sonny might not serve jail time, but he can still be ruined,

[jsbt]

That's Ron law. Which sadly only bears a passing resemblance to real law. It's like reading instructions as to how to hot wire a car with a banana.

 

If it puts Sonny in the clink I'm good with it!

[Francie]

If it puts Sonny in the clink I'm good with it!

Ha!  Meanwhile, I'm cringing thinking of Logan or one of the soap blogger/reporters interviewing Ron and fawning about how realistic and intelligent it was for Ron to make that nanny cam and consent reference. 

[CookieBud]

Michael's my hero today.  Love how Sonny is seething while Michael let's Ava go.  And how sad that his son, hurt and angry holds a gun on him and Sonny is still so intent on killing Ava that he keeps his gun trained on her.

 

And Bobbie is just beyond disgusting.

Edited November 7, 2014 by CookieBud

[CPP83]

At this very moment, a popular character is being destroyed

 

 

 

 

That's where I just don't get that. I don't think he is being destroyed, at least not on any sort of permanent basis, because he is popular and Sonny can still bounce back from this. Maybe not in Michael's, or Dante's or whatever, eyes but he still can rule PC, he has enough people in his corner who will stand by him and sympathize because of how everyone acted like AJ was just a loser and drunk anyway.

 

I have always thought that the way Ron wrote AJ before killing him off was to benefit Sonny, and looking at the way Sweeps are panning out I still do.

 

I just don't see this as being Sonny's final swan song, far from it and that is one of my biggest issues with this, that all of this will happen and yet hardly anything will change. I don't trust Ron, I just can't, not about this. Michael can have all the rage fits he wants, Sonny isn't going to become some great big loser with no one left to stroke his man pain.

 

I feel that the show has given Sonny wiggle room, they always do, and as you mentioned Y&R, and I hate sounding like a broken record, heh, but to me Sonny is the Victor Newman of GH, an indestructible force of terror that will never be gotten rid of until the actors finally call it quits.

[Lillybee]

Sonny will always have Olivia in his corner even if Michael winds up getting shot today.

[CookieBud]

OMG!  Sonny shot an unarmed man but says he wouldn't have done it...um, Sonny's spent all of Michael's life envisioning AJ's death.

 

And Bobby's grandson has just been crushed and Bobbie has the time and energy to mock Lucy?  Seriously?  Shouldn't she be out hiring her daughter an attorney?

Edited November 7, 2014 by CookieBud

[Lillybee]

Will the sound of a gunshot ringing out at the brownstone be today's cliffhanger?

[CookieBud]

Duke is such a putz.  He sacrificed his relationship with Anna for Sonny?  Sonny would betray him in an instant.

 

"I'm not your son and you're not my father."  Thank you!  Michael is standing strong and is doing a hell of a lot of truth telling.

 

And I'm glad Nina thinks the kid is Slias', because if she's planning on sharing her with him, he's going to know where the little girl belongs.

 

 

Why is  Sonny still breathing in the previews, although the "I wish I could say the same" was priceless.  And I spy QUARTERMAINES!

Edited November 7, 2014 by CookieBud

[backhometome]

Michael had the line of the day "What are you going to shoot me like you did Dante"  LMAO. Anytime someone reminds Sonny of that is awesome.

[TeeVee329]

I love you, Lucy, but take a fucking seat.  Do you really think Anna would be arresting Duke if she had a choice?  Do you really think she's enjoying it?

 

Die in a fire, Duke.  Sonny's your fucking friend?  Wasn't AJ also your friend, the guy who gave you a chance when you first came back?

 

And, of course, we had to make time for the Franco/Nina phone call where they take comfort in each others' voices and say they really just need each other right now.  Are we supposed to fucking charmed by this?

[Bringonthedrama]

Thinking that fans here are jumping for joy at Michael's words: "...you killed my father." (Not saying AJ first.) Sonny's bafflement and anger at losing control, just funny. Also like Michael telling Ava to shut the hell up and that he knows the two desecrated his father's grave. Michael's tears that AJ really was innocent of Connie's murder - awww.  Wasn't expecting Sonny to acknowledge he shot AJ because he hated him, not in defense of Ava. It takes Michael holding a gun on Sonny to get any honesty out of him, really sad for Michael. 

 

"I'm not your son, you're not my father!"  "I was a pawn!" "You cost me my whole life with my real father!" Some great, emotional acting by CD. Those tears at the end, while aiming a gun at Sonny's heart, wow. 

 

"You should kill him for what he did to your father." Good point that this is a mirror of the night of Sonny/AJ and Ava and that she is the same as Sonny, i.e killer and opportunist.

 

STFU Lucy really hasn't been said enough. And Duke is an ass. He chose his friendship with Sonny over Anna, ultimately, and is unapologetic over it because he hates Julian Jerome. GMAB. 

[Happywatcher]

Why did the prop department only use Beretta 92s for everyone's guns? Is it a tribute for Veteran's Day because that is what the .mil carries?

 

Having watched this week as a 5 day arc, it was pretty good. I assume it is still the day after Halloween, which excuses how long Anna and the police took to get their act together, and how long the Ava and Heather drama dragged.

 

I dislike Franco even more this way, but the story is moving and exciting. Heather didn't do anything actually worth being there, she was just a filler and plot device. Sean and Jordan were mostly wasted. Carly is too...innocent? Victim? She totally made her bed and now is being allowed to play a 'poor me' card.

 

Not happy at all with the skeevy Nina/baby stuff, but Nina as an evil bitch with Franco as her only friend is something the actress handles well.

 

Nathan, Donte, and Michael had some real meat to chew, and Michael was a well deserved and played pissed off. I like Michael getting some catch-up.

 

I agree with those of you who called out just how stupid Sonny was played.

 

Duke's sad face didn't work, I think because the actor used too much botox. Anna didn't really sell the story, either, except when on screen with Dante and Nathan. Are the three actors friends in real life? Eye drops are not acting, and Anna/Duke shoud have done better.

 

Those of you who took drama classes, are Bobbie and Lucy the chorus commenting to us or for us? That's what I think they are supposed to be. Otherwise they have no reason for being on.

 

The use of the Rib as a meeting place/mayor race HQ seemed a lot more natural than the overuse of the MetroCourt and gym in the past.

 

I hate Kiki with the heat of a wood fired pizza oven, and she is in every single storyline mucking it up.

 

All in all, this was pretty good all week. I feel good again about watching this soap.

[CPP83]

So now Michael is throwing the "whore" title around, really Ron is it just impossible to restrain yourself? Oh wait what am I asking of course you can't, I am not even sure that word is in your incredibly sparse vocabulary.

 

And Michael you didn't really know or believe AJ was innocent of killing Connie, you waffled badly on that point. Not that he was the only one certainly but still.

 

I feel like the majority of Sonny and Mitchael's conversation read more like a recap then what should be going on considering everything. Sonny is repeating almost word for word what he's said to at least five people already and Michael asks all the same questions, did you know?, was he armed?, he didn't kill Connie? Blah blah.

 

And no one on this damn show can hold a gun properly, all these twitchy trigger hands, everyone should have a bullet in them by now. If only...

 

Chad should really try to avoid gritting his teeth at all costs, truly, his mouth was not meant to do that well.

 

I'm pretty sure the way the Nina is holding the baby has smothered it. Also, the way she says "Ava"...unbearable, as a whole she is just unbearable. That baby looked terrified too.

 

Nice of Dante to put two and five together while Morgan plays with his coffee cup. And he didn't skip a beat lying and pretending that he had just found out the truth that night as well from Kiki.

 

Kikaka is such a waste.

 

So Duke will be firmly in his "friend" Sonny's corner, disgusting. Anna come on, grow a backbone already, she should have slammed him ass first into a jail cell herself. 

 

I won't even bother to comment about Bobbie and Lucy's scenes...the horror just can't be put into words really.

 

Oh the previews...Jakson is back and meets Sam for the first time...let the good times roll...

[Lillybee]

Is Franco/Todd going to enable another kidnapping?

[TeeVee329]

Is Franco/Todd going to enable another kidnapping?

 

He doesn't know, does he?  Ava ran up to him asking for help (and the SERIAL KILLER just ditched here there, but oh, love him anyway!), but did she tell him about Nina stealing the baby?

[CookieBud]

He doesn't know, does he?  Ava ran up to him asking for help (and the SERIAL KILLER just ditched here there, but oh, love him anyway!), but did she tell him about Nina stealing the baby?

I missed a minute, did she actually talk to him or was she calling after him and he didn't hear?

[Happywatcher]

Imagine this scenario. You're the chief of police:

 

A pissed off ex-fiancé brings to you a recording. He says it's a recording of his ex and her ex confessing to a crime. Trust him, he says, it ain't doctored. Have your experts check it out! Oh, and he's also a famous serial killer who once murdered some of his victims, photographed them, and hung their pictures in a museum where unsuspecting patrons thought they were viewing models. No good DA would touch that evidence. It'd blow up in your face worse than the glove in OJ's trial. 

 

Even if the DA wanted to, New York statute specifically says illegal recordings are not admissible. It all has to do with Franco not recording himself talking with someone. He's electronically eavesdropping others, and that can't be used. New York sate law is clear about that (the federal government and its own wiretapping under the Patriot Act is a whole different discussion).

 

To address what someone said upthread, when Dante brought up the legality of the tape, he meant as use as evidence as Sonny. The show didn't even touch on how illegal it was for Franco to do what he did. Like they will never they touch on how invasive it was.

 

If only the Scotty weren't the DA, or didn't have this odd attachment for the 45-year-old serial killing son.  Because, to me, the most fun scenario to come out of this would be for Carly to say, "Oh yeah, well Franco and I ran off with AJ's (or was it Connie's - I switch those 2 crimes up) phone and we destroyed evidence after the fact," and have the DA decide to give Carly the immunity and prosecute Franco based on Carly's (and Spinelli's and Ellie's corroborating testimony -- as they can confirm the two where there together, wanted to listen to something, etc.).  Let this revenge moment of his come back to bite his ass.

 

Edited to add the New York statute:

 

"§  4506.  Eavesdropping evidence; admissibility; motion to suppress in  certain  cases.  1.  The  contents  of   any   overheard   or   recorded  communication,   conversation   or   discussion,   or  evidence  derived therefrom, which has been obtained by conduct constituting the crime  of  eavesdropping, as defined by section 250.05 of the penal law, may not be received  in  evidence  in  any  trial, hearing or proceeding before any  court or grand jury, or before any  legislative  committee,  department, officer,  agency, regulatory body, or other authority of the state, or a  political   subdivision   thereof;   provided,   however,   that    such  communication, conversation, discussion or evidence, shall be admissible  in  any  civil or criminal trial, hearing or proceeding against a person who has, or is alleged to have, committed such crime of eavesdropping."

 

That means that the only person the recording can be used against is Franco, for having made it in the first place.

You are right, I am wrong. Nice work.

[Dandesun]

Ava playing the role of Emperor Palpatine is awesome. "Yes! Use your hatred to strike him down!" All she needed to follow up with was 'And join me... together we will rule the galaxy!'

[CPP83]

Franco never saw Ava, he was already walking away when she was weakly calling after him and then collapsed without him ever seeing her. Just as Morgan and Dante took off right before she arrived at the hospital.

Edited November 7, 2014 by CPP83

[CookieBud]

Franco never saw Ava, he was already walking away when she was weakly calling after him and then collapsed without him ever seeing her. Just as Morgan and Dante took off right before she arrived at the hospital.

Thanks.  I didn't get the impression that he had seen or heard her.

[TeeVee329]

Franco never saw Ava, he was already walking away when she was weakly calling after him and then collapsed without him ever seeing her. Just as Morgan and Dante took off right before she arrived at the hospital.

 

Oops, I guess I gave him the opposite of the benefit of the doubt.

[Bringonthedrama]

I missed a minute, did she actually talk to him or was she calling after him and he didn't hear?

Her voice was too faint as she was struggling to walk - he definitely didn't hear or see her. But even if he had heard or seen her, he most likely would have left her there to die anyway after more misogynistic ranting "you're a woman who lies like all of them -you told me Kiki was mine! You don't deserve another child" etc. 

[ulkis]

Okay, the bad stuff first:

 

Nina is back to saying "Ava Jzerome" instead of "Ava Jerome". drink!

 

The fucking schmoopy music during the Nina/Franco phone call. Nope, just nope.

 

As soon as Franco sat down at the bar, Barbara Jean Spencer would have punched him in the face.

 

Okay, I think that's the worst of it? I'll let everyone else quote Michael's speech at the end, since others will take more glee in it that I did (I still took glee, mind you, but not as much as others will).

 

I loved this though:

 

Morgan: So Michael took the gun. So what? He's still Michael.

Dante: He killed Claudia Zacchara with an axe handle!

 

I hope wherever they are, axe handle, cake, branch from All My Children and Chandy from One Life to Live are having a great time.

 

You know, I know Sonny is kill happy, but I think even he would forgo killing Ava when Michael is there with a gun in his face, confronting him about killing AJ. I did enjoy Michael not falling for Ava's manipulation and telling them they were both disgusting and telling her to leave.

 

I love how Nathan and Dante were like, "okay, we're gonna go arrest our parents now." Maybe you wanna switch assignments, fellows? I know, I know, but then there wouldn't be any dramaz. Except there won't be any drama regarding Nathan and Madeline given their relationship is all tell-no show, so they might as well have gotten Dante to do both. I did like Dante admitting he knew this day would be coming one day.

 

Bobbie and Lucy never need to share screentime again. I hate these ridiculous catfights that teenagers wouldn't have. And seriously Lucy? "How could Anna do that to Duke?" Go the fuck away.

 

No Duke, you're still useless. He can go away too.

[CPP83]

Thanks.  I didn't get the impression that he had seen or heard her.

 

 

 

My pleasure and no, she was barely audible while calling out for him, though really nothing could stop him from going to rub his little stunt in Bobbie's face...

 

 

Oops, I guess I gave him the opposite of the benefit of the doubt.

 

 

 

 

Heh it's the SERIAL KILLER you were going off of instinct, as you should with him, always.

 

 

 

Okay, I think that's the worst of it? I'll let everyone else quote Michael's speech at the end, since others will take more glee in it that I did (I still took glee, mind you, but not as much as others will).

 

 

 

I didn't mind it, aside from Chad's spastic hand shaking the hell out of the gun I thought he was fine.

 

Though for the most part I felt like he just seemed to yell a lot and need a hug. He just isn't the sort of actor I'd lay such heavy and dark material on.

 

Overall I really just saw a brokenhearted kid whose dad let him down in the worse possible way, but he lost his "Mykill" edge, imo. He looked like he just wanted to lean on Sonny because he finally knew who killed AJ except that person is Sonny himself so Michael can't turn to him now and that's ripping him to pieces inside.

Edited November 7, 2014 by CPP83

[TeeVee329]

I love how Nathan and Dante were like, "okay, we're gonna go arrest our parents now." Maybe you wanna switch assignments, fellows?

 

Didn't Nathan in fact offer to arrest Sonny in Dante's stead?

[dubbel zout]

The fucking schmoopy music during the Nina/Franco phone call. Nope, just nope.

 

Who is doing the music editing? I complained about the "it's a miracle!" piano music when Nina forcibly had Ava give birth. It's like the music direction gets only the most basic information about the scene—two friends need each other! a baby is born!—and there's no other context whatsoever. So we get this wildly wrong music for the scene.

Edited November 7, 2014 by dubbel zout

[Lillybee]

I wish that there was a tape of Sonny saying that he enjoyed shooting AJ and that he would do it again and Michael had a chance to hear it.

Edited November 7, 2014 by Lillybee

[CookieBud]

I wish that there was a tape of Sonny saying that he enjoyed shooting AJ and that he would do it again and Michael had a chance to hear it.

Well, he did call AJ a bastard on Franco's tape.  That can't be sitting well with Michael.

[ulkis]

Didn't Nathan in fact offer to arrest Sonny in Dante's stead?

 

He did. But they should have followed through on it (but not really, heh, because I want to see Sonny's "duh" face when Morgan and Dante come in).