S08.E02: XX (2)

[KaveDweller]

I think if the ratings keep dropping, the producers will know it's coming and put them back together for the season/series finale at the latest. I doubt they'd keep them apart more than one season anyway.

The cancellation index is about whether it will get renewed for another season, it doesn't mean they'll pull the show in the middle of this year. They do that with new shows, but not established ones.

[AntiBeeSpray]

This may have been the most ridiculous character decision yet, but I've developed a remarkable ability over the years to redact ridiculous, unpalatable parts of characterisation on Castle from my brain, so maybe that'll do the trick again this time? ;)  It is what it is, and I'm just going to try not to take it too seriously, roll with it, and be open to the characterisation being redeemed somewhat in the future.

 

Word. I can't. Just can't. It's so much bs that I'm sick and tired. They expect us to 'roll with it'... seriously? How about treating the fans with some respect? Not all of us are over the top. And come up with something original for a change.

 

What I said about it on another forum: 

 

It ain't bold. It's just pulling the same page out of the book that other show runners have been doing this year...

 

Meaning the Muppets, The X Files, etc.

 

Uncreative tripe. Gives me one DAMN good reason to not even bother watching.

 

Idiot.

 

One thing that really bugs me is how these shows seem to look down on the viewers for not liking something, as if they're children who are unable to form their own thoughts, let alone their own opinion. How arrogant is that?

 

[madmaverick]

And come up with something original for a change.

 

I'm kind of resigned about that by now, because it's a rare show that will come up with something original in S8 (unless if it's something like GoT and has source material).  And it's even rarer that a relationship show finds something original to do with the relationship in S8.  I don't necessarily need them to do something original, but if they can write a happy and loving relationship well, and we can enjoy watching cute fluff and sexiness as light weight escapism that this show once was, I would be perfectly OK with that.  But writers, they themselves and they believe characters thrive on drama.  It's like a viewer hazard for audiences watching relationship shows to wait for them to get together first and then after that, wait for the break up.

 

I'm trying to handwave stuff, but a big issue ahead in how I feel when the reconciliation occurs is how they resolve the matter of trust.  How can Castle trust Beckett not to leave again?  She can trust in her love for him, her good intentions, but being 'all in' in the marriage...?  I need to see something from Beckett to reassure me on that front.

 

I generally only enjoy angsty fics with happy endings, and I don't want to see an unhappy ending on the show, but Beckett was so idiotic in her decision making I find myself envisioning scenarios where after she decides to leave Castle, she gets a bombshell of her own one day when he just decides he can't be with her anymore, even if they love each other, and he finds love with someone else who will stay always.  Or he's killed anyway due to her investigation, and she wears that bracelet every day to remind her of how she threw it all away. Or he's just killed by a random, wayward event because sometimes life sucks and waits for no one to come back to claim their happily ever after.  Yeah, in the mood for angst right now.  Beckett really needs a wake up call.  What will it take?  Maybe she needs an alt universe episode of her own where everything is cold and lonely without Castle. ;)

 

So can anyone clarify for me how is it that the Locksat people don't have targets on Beckett and Vikram's backs just because the AG woman died?  Aren't they still concerned about what Beckett will do, what she knows?

 

Now, a serious question :P. Are smorlettes now forever ruined for Castle or have they become his binge eating food in his depression? ;)

[AntiBeeSpray]

Fair point. Guess I'm just tired of the same formula being trotted out by show runners these days.

[TWP]

I think if the ratings keep dropping, the producers will know it's coming and put them back together for the season/series finale at the latest. I doubt they'd keep them apart more than one season anyway.

The cancellation index is about whether it will get renewed for another season, it doesn't mean they'll pull the show in the middle of this year. They do that with new shows, but not established ones.

 

 

You are probably right.  I guess I can't think of a show as long-running as Castle that was pulled mid-season.

 

Judging from next week's photos, I'm beginning to think the "break-up" was a ruse, designed for someone's ears.  Maybe Castle gets clued in next week.

[Blackrock1]

Oh, one other eyeroll moment was when Beckett talked about having to work outside the system to take down the conspiracy.  Man, you're a Captain now.  You're part of the system, the establishment now, and if you don't believe in using it to take down serious threats, you shouldn't have aimed for a command post.  You can't really be that kind of rebel operating outside the system when you're a Captain.  I did want to laugh again when that AG woman praised Beckett and offered her a DC command, because didn't Beckett break a lot of rules by operating on her own?  At least AG woman turned out to be a stupid baddie.  But have to handwave RebelBecks obviously, because I doubt we've seen the last of Badass Rebel Capt. Beckett in her Badass Black Turtleneck for the rest of the season. ;)

Wait, does this mean Stana will also be know. As "Captain Tight Pants?"

[Finis Terre]

Weird. I've been convinced that season 8 would suck even more than seasons 6 and 7 and yet I'm gobsmacked how utterly awful the two-parter premiere was. Even the ultra-stupid Quantico made more sense. LOL I really sympathize with the fans.

[Finis Terre]

That said, you can have two actors who can't keep their hands off each other (David and Gillian on X Files) and you still have a shit for brains creator who thinks it's a great idea to "reset" (read: breakup) that relationship because he doesn't know how to write happy either.

 

In all honesty, we don't know how that "reset" is going to work and I certainly wouldn't diminish Carter's ability to write MSR. Despite all the mind-boggling negativity on Haven and Tumblr in the past few months I'm pretty sure Scully and Mulder will be fine. Together.

[Palomar]

Who are the writers writing for?  I guess that is obvious.  Sorry your job was so boring you had to ruin the show to try to be edgy and creative. Total fail.  Not a good way to go out if this is the end.

[AntiBeeSpray]

In all honesty, we don't know how that "reset" is going to work and I certainly wouldn't diminish Carter's ability to write MSR. Despite all the mind-boggling negativity on Haven and Tumblr in the past few months I'm pretty sure Scully and Mulder will be fine. Together.

 

Tbh, I don't blame them completely. A lot of what's come out has kind of bashed people over the head. And that can tend to equal not so positive reactions. I can see how it kind has done the same here over in the Castle fandom to up to a point. It's not pretty.

 

I certainly hope so. David and Gillian I have faith in, Chris... not so much. But that's a story for over on the XF board.

[verdana]

Fair point. Guess I'm just tired of the same formula being trotted out by show runners these days.

Yeah after a while you get tired of seeing showrunners unable to write their happy couple together so instead force them apart almost before the wedding cake goes off and have them at odds in some way just to generate some contrived drama because they're too lazy or incompetent to figure out how to do something different.  They're all at it but I wish one of them would at least try to break the cycle of negativity and angst (because being happy in a relationships isn't boring!) and try to do something fresh but it's obvious these guys aren't going to be bringing that to the table based on what I've seen. The one comment that stuck out most for me after the episode aired was their casual admission that the only way they could recreate the spark in Castle and Beckett's relationship was to have them go back to the early years when they weren't together. That's pretty damning and if they truly believe that's the only way to do it then fans should expect this cycle to continue. 

[Tim]

Had a nightmare last night, dreamed I was Screaming for Marlowe to come back, come back and save us even with your bland respect the process, and over use and contrived plot twists, I would take it over a time jump back to Season 3 with Alexi H.  Then I realized I was awake, and still thinking the same thing.  I stopped buying the CD after Season 5, Season 6 finale was more Terri than anyone and they had blown the budget so screw the story and give us a trip to Fantasy Island.  Season 7 was boring in many ways, but Safe, now I doubt we get S9 and from my perspective the season ended at Hollanders Woods and I will live in Fan Fic.  I have the DVR set to record, but still not sure if I can watch any more of "I have to do it my way, I hope you can find it in your heart (or still the same sap you always were for 7 years) when this is done".  They have painted Beckett into a corner where she can either be a Super Cop or a wife, but Not Both, see where they go with this,  Statements are my opinions, YOMV 

[Bubbi63]

Anyone over the age of 20 knows you can not go back but that is exactly what these "new" writers/show runners are doing. Picking up where they left off and trying to pass it off as new--blah. They really do think the viewers are idiots and NO they have zero respect for what we think.  At least Marlowe was honest and told the fans how he felt which cost him his job eventually and ABC has said they do not care if the fans do not like the direction.  Reading last spring TPTB at ABC see Castle going on and on with or with out the 2 leads. Like a CSI type of program--they are doing some mind altering drugs lol.   

If they can not write a happy couple and want to add problems why did she need to walk out after less than a year of marriage?  We know it has nothing to do with Castle's safety.  I stopped watching Bones cold turkey 2 years ago when they regressed the Bones character and as much as I am a fan of NF I will not watch him grovel. However, right now--I would watch if he acted like most men would if this happened to them--either put a clock on her or cut her loose. (not a 20 ep clock either).

I can think of so many ideas the writers could have done while keeping the dynamic duo together.  So why can't the writers?

[Chado]

I stopped watching Bones cold turkey 2 years ago when they regressed the Bones character and as much as I am a fan of NF I will not watch him grovel. However, right now--I would watch if he acted like most men would if this happened to them--either put a clock on her or cut her loose. (not a 20 ep clock either).

That's my feelings exactly.

[AntiBeeSpray]

Anyone over the age of 20 knows you can not go back but that is exactly what these "new" writers/show runners are doing. Picking up where they left off and trying to pass it off as new--blah. They really do think the viewers are idiots and NO they have zero respect for what we think.  At least Marlowe was honest and told the fans how he felt which cost him his job eventually and ABC has said they do not care if the fans do not like the direction.  Reading last spring TPTB at ABC see Castle going on and on with or with out the 2 leads. Like a CSI type of program--they are doing some mind altering drugs lol.   

If they can not write a happy couple and want to add problems why did she need to walk out after less than a year of marriage?  We know it has nothing to do with Castle's safety.  I stopped watching Bones cold turkey 2 years ago when they regressed the Bones character and as much as I am a fan of NF I will not watch him grovel. However, right now--I would watch if he acted like most men would if this happened to them--either put a clock on her or cut her loose. (not a 20 ep clock either).

I can think of so many ideas the writers could have done while keeping the dynamic duo together.  So why can't the writers?

 

Word.

 

Only bit I disagree on is in regards to Bones. At least they seem to respect fans up to a point and are handling the relationship in a decent manner. Heck I haven't been more proud to be a fan. It's not perfect, but it's tolerable.

 

The Moonlighting curse. *ugh* It's pathetic.

[house864]

I don't post often and I don't know much about the bts rumors but I haven't seen this mentioned so I thought I'd bring it up. On top of the nonsensical dialogue it seemed pretty clear that Nathan and Stana didn't even film that final scene together. The over the shoulder cuts stood out so much that it didn't even seem real and I was only half listening to the dialogue while waiting to see both actors confirmed in the shot at the same time which never happened. Even the kiss you only saw Beckett and the back of Castles head.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I don't post often and I don't know much about the bts rumors but I haven't seen this mentioned so I thought I'd bring it up. On top of the nonsensical dialogue it seemed pretty clear that Nathan and Stana didn't even film that final scene together. The over the shoulder cuts stood out so much that it didn't even seem real and I was only half listening to the dialogue while waiting to see both actors confirmed in the shot at the same time which never happened. Even the kiss you only saw Beckett and the back of Castles head.

 

Damn. What a real shame. That it appears that it's come to this point :(. I really liked Castle for a long time. It's too bad that it seems to be going down this route.

[Sonik Tooth]

I'm sorry, but by that logic many scenes would be qualified to use stand-ins. It's just the way they seem to film these one on one scenes. Nothing exclusive only applicable to Caskett scenes.

 

I just rewatched a few scenes just concentrating on Nathan (for research purposes only, I might add), and I think these neck and shoulders are parts of Nathan's body.

[femmefan1946]

For research.. .. Yes, yes, research.

Your spirit of enquiry is a beacon to all of us.

[AnnaMayWong]

And, what now? Castle spends how much time/episodes trying to win her back? He looks pathetic right now and any sane person would call it a day and move on; he's going to seem (to me) pitiful in desperate effort to get her back. He should count his blessings to be rid of such a selfish, self-absorbed partner (I don't give a shit about the so-called big bads)

Heaven forbid, she should sit down and actually talk to her husband about what she is planning to do vs. rolling out with suitcase and saying "see ya" before heading out the door.

Stupid on steroids - all the way around. Shows have a shelf life and this one seems to have hit its expiration date (well, it really did that with the idiotic wedding day gone haywire and Castle's mysterious disappearance) - Too bad the writers can never stick with what made the show a fun, mindless bit of fluff in the first place - good banter (early days), good supporting cast/characters, goofy stories together with some serious ones tossed in for balance.

What a waste of NF's talent. I still don't see her talent but that just might be how she is directed but she has always left me feeling absolutely nothing.

Clapping vigorously!

Thoroughly agree!

[Hipshooter]

By the end of the episode I was expecting Castle to break out with a remarkably sound alike version of Ben E. King's "Stand By Me" as Beckett walked away from him.Or Bill Withers"Lean on Me" Thankfully he had just enough balls left to not run after her begging.  WTH has happened with the writing of this show. Can't they think of any thing better that this BS mythology.

Edited October 2, 2015 by Hipshooter

[shapeshifter]

I don't keep up on all the behind the scenes stuff, but what I've gleaned from this thread (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Beckett's step-mom-inlaw with the ominous warning was a plot device to allow the writing out of Stana's character because of breakdowns in salary talks--because having her abducted by aliens wasn't okay, right?

[westwingfan]

Clapping vigorously!

Thoroughly agree!

See I feel the opposite, I have often found Nathan unconvincing in many scenes over the life of the show, whereas Stana has more often hit the mark for me. The way her swallow changes the mood of that scene in FFYG, and the change in her demeanor ITBOTB by just a subtle change in her expression when waiting to meet Mr Jones for the first time and you realise that she realises that Elena is more than just a courier have been the highlights for me. I can't imagine anyone else playing Castle and I'm grateful for all the pleasure the show has given me over the years, but I will only be following one of their careers when the show ends.

[madmaverick]

I don't post often and I don't know much about the bts rumors but I haven't seen this mentioned so I thought I'd bring it up. On top of the nonsensical dialogue it seemed pretty clear that Nathan and Stana didn't even film that final scene together. The over the shoulder cuts stood out so much that it didn't even seem real and I was only half listening to the dialogue while waiting to see both actors confirmed in the shot at the same time which never happened. Even the kiss you only saw Beckett and the back of Castles head.

 

I did notice the over the shoulder cuts especially as people keep claiming they shoot with doubles instead of each other, but I think they've always shot from these angles and used a lot of these over the shoulder cuts on Castle.  It's not anything new.  I don't know if it's because of the height difference or because the DP prefers to have close ups of each actor's face one at a time or whatever.  I'm with Sonik, and looking at those scenes in the episode and in .gifs I think it's the actors themselves in those scenes.  And I think one of the S7 DVD extras featured Nathan's double and it's a new guy who looks much more different than Nathan compared to the old guy who popped up onscreen as Castle's doppelganger in Probable Cause.

 

I will say that the "shut up and kiss me" kiss in the hangar didn't do much for me.  It was a tight clinch but we couldn't see their faces at all and it was a bit brief and random with everyone else there.  And it seems to me Nathan probably ends up with a mouthful or a face full of Stana's hair or wig every time they kiss heh.  That's another obstacle that prevents us from seeing their faces.

[verdana]

I like both actors and will keep an eye on their careers when they're done with Castle, although I'm not that keen on Stana's artistic choices to date, just not my cup of tea. *shrug* However, when it comes to this show, I realise it's subjective but I find both actors are far more convincing and emotionally affecting doing low key, more nuanced scenes than the obvious crowd pleasers of badassery, buffoonery (in Fillion's case) or sobbing their eyes out which seem to garner most of the plaudits and production of countless gifs on tumblr.

[verdana]

About that "shut up and kiss me" moment, I'm not sure if it was said here but I agree with some who felt it was shoehorned in there as if to say 'here you go a Caskett moment!" when it was a strange time to choose to get physical as they might have still been in grave danger and as madmaverick points out there's not much to see anyway even when they do kiss but hair.

I also find the exaggerated hand movements which are presumably meant to convey intense passion (and compensate for obscuring their faces?) cause a further distraction I can do without. I shouldn't even be thinking about this stuff and I don't on any other TV show but this one because they make such a hash of what should be a relatively simple procedure lol.

I also think the height difference at times makes it a hassle to film when they do close ups. But I wish this issue of using doubles etc had never come up because I'm starting to look out for something which I was never bothered about before.

[oberon55]

I like the little scenes also. One of my favorite scenes is from "Headhunters" even though I really disliked the episode overall. When Castle first comes in & asks her about court the way she is smiling & jabbering a mile a minute about the case shows just how happy she was to see him. They got their point across without her saying a word about missing him. That to me is showing not telling.

[verdana]

That episode with Baldwin was bad but that's the one moment I'd watch over and over again. She looked utterly radiant and so thrilled for a split second when he appeared and she thought he'd come to see her and I also I loved the way they conveyed her upset by putting the coffee down when she realised why he had come. Yeah that's how you sell something without having to bash fans over the head with it. Of course Hawley wrote that episode heh.

[KaveDweller]

I don't keep up on all the behind the scenes stuff, but what I've gleaned from this thread (please correct me if I'm wrong) is that Beckett's step-mom-inlaw with the ominous warning was a plot device to allow the writing out of Stana's character because of breakdowns in salary talks--because having her abducted by aliens wasn't okay, right?

No, Stana's contract was finalized before they started writing anything for this season. She is contracted to be in every episode this season.

Some people have speculated that they are doing this in case Stana doesn't sign next year, but Nathan does and ABC chooses to continue without her. Personally, I think that's unlikely because it seems way to early to think about that. The writers have plenty of time to come up with that plot device down the line.

Regarding the airport kiss, that was weird because Beckett and Vikram were on the run not able to go home or contact anyone. Beckett couldn't even stay with Castle at the warehouse in the previous episode. Then suddenly it's fine to go to Castle's PI office and start coordinating with Ryan and Espo?

Edited October 2, 2015 by KaveDweller

[madmaverick]

I also thought it was weird (but handwave) how Beckett trusted Vikram and Rita so easily, in the midst of a raging conspiracy, no less!  If this were Alias, I'd be expecting a double cross on a double cross.

 

I still don't completely get how Beckett and Vikram are safe now... and will she give him a heads up about her desire to keep investigating because that would presumably put him in danger too?

 

I also find the exaggerated hand movements which are presumably meant to convey intense passion (and compensate for obscuring their faces?) cause a further distraction I can do without. I shouldn't even be thinking about this stuff and I don't on any other TV show but this one because they make such a hash of what should be a relatively simple procedure lol.

I want to see sexual tension generated other than in a frenzy of hands and theory building.  I want some slow burn, heated looks for a change.  I want them to pull each other in for a long, slow kiss, as Castle described it in S5 but which we never saw!  I don't really get it but if the actors have to kiss anyway, why not film at a closer angle and zoom in on their lips like other shows often do to show passion.  There's a lot of techniques they can use to make a kiss look hot onscreen even if it isn't the least bit hot for those filming it. 

 

I also think the height difference at times makes it a hassle to film when they do close ups. But I wish this issue of using doubles etc had never come up because I'm starting to look out for something which I was never bothered about before.

 

 

Same.  I didn't realise how much Beckett was on her tip toes to hug Castle in the hangar until I saw the .gifs.

[AntiBeeSpray]

I can't believe you guys aren't frothing at the mouth over the HILARITY and wackiness to come! Castle groveling to get his own wife back after she walked out on him with no explanation.

 

You guys, the show has promised a WTWT after our favorite couple went through a bunch of manufactured drama and finally got married and pledged to love each other always and be together.. How can you not see the brilliance?

 

Problem is... it's not brilliant. It's just cheap writing and drama. What show hasn't pulled stunts like this before?

[sinkwriter]

 

 

I can't believe you guys aren't frothing at the mouth over the HILARITY and wackiness to come! Castle groveling to get his own wife back after she walked out on him with no explanation.

You guys, the show has promised a WTWT after our favorite couple went through a bunch of manufactured drama and finally got married and pledged to love each other always and be together.. How can you not see the brilliance?

 

SweetTooth - your sarcasm is DELICIOUS.  *GRIN*

[Cyranetta]

 

Like a running gag. They really need to explore all of the comedic possibilities.

...or a wheeling gag. Maybe it could be a where's-Waldoish "thing" where people tweet the latest sighting... 

[371012]

It took all week but I just figured it out...the coats WILL fit, because it is the Tumi Mary Poppins Edition!!! SweetTooth, if we ever see that bag again I will likely die of uncontrollable laughter and my husband will never know why!!

[Chado]

It took all week but I just figured it out...the coats WILL fit, because it is the Tumi Mary Poppins Edition!!! SweetTooth, if we ever see that bag again I will likely die of uncontrollable laughter and my husband will never know why!!

Just finish every episode with her getting more and more clothes from the loft and leaving Castle over and over again

[TWP]

I don't post often and I don't know much about the bts rumors but I haven't seen this mentioned so I thought I'd bring it up. On top of the nonsensical dialogue it seemed pretty clear that Nathan and Stana didn't even film that final scene together. The over the shoulder cuts stood out so much that it didn't even seem real and I was only half listening to the dialogue while waiting to see both actors confirmed in the shot at the same time which never happened. Even the kiss you only saw Beckett and the back of Castles head.

I'm with you. I have seen time and again in scenes where it was likely that they probably filmed with doubles, at least for Nathan's lines. People talk about their on screen chemistry, and I'm often thinking, wait, they aren't even in the same room.

On another topic, Beckett doesn't need room in her bag for all those jackets, because in the Castle universe, jackets are spontaneously generated. This also explains how she can afford to wear them....they simply appear. Castle, on the other hand, hasn't found the magic and still has to employ the skills òf a mediocre taylor.....

[Bubbi63]

It's almost like you were in the writers' room! We can include the catch phrases, even!

 

"Why are you leaving me again?"

 

"Trust me!"

 

"Wait!"

 

*Runs after her. Slips on banana peel*

 

"Oh, CASTLE!"

 

Martha walks in and says, "That's my boy!"

 

*laughtrack*

 

HILARITY!

Wait--you for got one  the famous "Its my Life!"   let me know when Castle kicks KB to the curb and gets a dog....

[John.G]

The bottom line is the writers don't seem to watch their own show. The only reason Rita and Castle Sr can 'protect each other' through seperation is that their relationship is secret. Rick and Kate are MARRIED, writers, it was in all the papers; their relationship is NOT A SECRET! If Kate becomes visible as a threat to Big Bad, they can snatch Rick any time they like, especially if Kate isn't around to protect him!

They've got two more episodes to change my mind or I'm gone.

[Sarnia]

The bottom line is the writers don't seem to watch their own show. The only reason Rita and Castle Sr can 'protect each other' through seperation is that their relationship is secret. Rick and Kate are MARRIED, writers, it was in all the papers; their relationship is NOT A SECRET! If Kate becomes visible as a threat to Big Bad, they can snatch Rick any time they like, especially if Kate isn't around to protect him!

Exactly! I just don't get it. How does Kate leaving Castle will keep him safe as they are publicly married and she still obviously loves him? He can be used as leverage against her whether they live together or not.

The writers really don't do "serious" well. After the crapfest that was "Sleeper" and the heavily handled last season finale, this is it for me. I realize that I just keep on watching because I have a crush on Nathan Fillion since Firefly, but it is not enough now. This is a ridiculous plot and character "development" that doesn't tie with anything we have been told about these people.

I will keep reading the forum for the next few episodes to see how it develops but I think I'm out. Thank you Castle, it's been fun for a while, but now it is painful (and even worse, boring).

[KaveDweller]

Wow. Yeah. i guess a big page of the newspaper announcing their engagement was probably a dead giveaway, right? 

 

Yeah, but to be fair, when Rita made her argument, she told Kate to disappear, not go back to her old job and still be in constant contact with everyone she knows. That's not exactly going underground, now is it? 

 

This was supposed to show how much Kate is willing to sacrifice in order to catch the bad guy, but as far as I can tell, the only thing/person she's willing to sacrifice is her husband. Her coworkers are fair game, I guess, because it's obvious she doesn't care about them all that much, right? Let's keep them in the dark as she continues on her dangerous mission only she knows she's on..

Rita told her to disappear when they were still on the run. After Alison Hyde was killed, Rita didn't tell Kate to disappear if she was going to keep investigating, she just told her not to involve Castle. Rita never suggested Kate had to leave her job or that her coworkers would be in danger.

The logic seems to be that the only one in danger is the person actively investigating. Which makes a little sense, except if Locksat finds out Kate is investigating he/she will probably assume Castle knows about. That's how he got tortured in XY. It's not like Kate can send an email to this guy explaining things. Locksat seems to be the type that will kill first, ask questions later. Unless Rita is actually Locksat and is just playing head games with her.

Also, Locksat is a really stupid code name.

[Bubbi63]

Rita actually told Kate after that AG gal was dead that she was safe and could go back to her life.  She went back to her life long enough to tell Castle "no more secrets" and oh by the way "I have to leave to clear my head" or something like that.

She met with Rita after leaving the loft and admitted her I am woman hear me roar obsession was back stronger than ever.

So Kate in a very selfish act is now putting her self and everyone she knows in danger and they do not know it cause guess what--Kate is keeping it secret! 

 

I will lay odds that Mondays "fun" episode will see Kate telling Rick to leave every time he shows up on the case. I wont be watching but I will still tape a couple more and read the reviews and then decide if I will watch. I will say having this forum to vent has helped. I too am a NF fan from Firefly days but what has taken place now is just so much garbage that not even being a NF fan is enough.

I have a DVR full of the best of the best Castle and will watch those instead.

 

I look forward to reading who ever is brave enough to watch Monday :)

[KaveDweller]

I get what you're saying, but Rita kind of made it clear she had to break ties. If someone tells me to do that, I'm not moving down the block and staying in a job where that person can find me.

What you're saying is correct. They tortured Castle just for THINKING he knew something and then were going to kill him due to him being useless and not knowing, so it's not like being ignorant saved his life or anything.

And has she met Castle? Has he ever just lied down and let things go? Ever?

I watched that scene several times and didn't get the impression that Rita was telling her to on the run. She said not to investigate with Castle. They didn't talk about her job or anyone else being in danger, just about her marriage.

Rita actually told Kate after that AG gal was dead that she was safe and could go back to her life. She went back to her life long enough to tell Castle "no more secrets" and oh by the way "I have to leave to clear my head" or something like that.

She met with Rita after leaving the loft and admitted her I am woman hear me roar obsession was back stronger than ever.

That's not the order things happened. Kate promised no more secrets before the AG woman died, and she probably meant it at the time. Then after the AG lady died Kate saw Rita who told her not to work the case. Kate said she couldn't stop and so Rita told her to leave Rick out of it. Then she went back to the loft and told Castle she needed time to figure things out.

It's still pretty awful though.

Edited October 4, 2015 by KaveDweller

[Bubbi63]

Point is---Kate had a choice and she didn't choose Castle--her husband, partner, friend and lover always blah...  Now I want a dog...

[KaveDweller]

Point is---Kate had a choice and she didn't choose Castle--her husband, partner, friend and lover always blah...  Now I want a dog...

Right. The conversation was about whether she was putting her colleagues in danger. Not about what she did to Castle.

[ksb]

I guess that she should have known that merely moving out but still carrying on with her old life would put Castle in danger, because Castle would figure it out and wind up getting involved anyway, only he'll be in more danger, because he's in the dark.

 

Why do you have to ruin the story with your logic? ;)

[TWP]

My TV options were slim last night.  I had the choice of watching tiny Jamie Alexander physically beat the bad guys in Blindspot. (I'm guessing we'll find out that she's bionic, because she's way too slim for all that strength).  Got all the way through that.  Then I lasted approximately 10 minutes with the ever so more buffoonish-than-Castle Brian Finch character in Limitless.  All that I had left was Castle -- so I watched -- with my fingers in front of my face.  And can  just say one thing?

 

Ew.

 

Somehow through my pre-watch reading of you all, I didn't realize that the baddies would leave Beckett alone if she avoided them.  I thought she would be chased regardless, so she had no choice but to leave Rick to keep him out of harm's way (which would still be a kludge, but less so).

 

But no.  If Beckett leaves baddies alone, baddies will go away.  Unfortunately, Beckett has Wallz, dang it.  And she's going to do everything in her power to make sure those Wallz go right back up. 

 

She reminds me of relatives I have, people who are Marilyn Munsters (except Marilyn thought she was the misfit in a negative way), who believe they are specially mis-fitted and too good for their families and the mundane-ness of everyday life. 

 

Beckett needs a life of drama.  She fears the normalcy of married life with Castle.  She's even said so.  That is why she leaves.

 

Oh, Mr. Castle, run, sir, run as far as you can from this woman.  You will never be happy with her, unless you find chasing someone who has no desire to be caught, fun.

 

Why can't the government fix its own "big bad" problem?  Why is Beckett required?  Because she wants it.  She wants the Wallz more than she wants anything.

 

Beckett is one dysfunctional human being. Maybe the goal this year is to make the viewers happy when Stana is gone?  If so, they've already gotten their wish with me. (Nothing personal, Stana.  I hope your next character is more likeable.)

 

The story line is wrong and silly on so many levels.  I am getting really tired of the villains that are imminently dangerous some weeks and non-existent, other weeks.  All the shows do it, not just Castle.  But I don't think many shows actually have their characters choose the villain over the love interest.  I guess that's a slightly unique new twist.

 

Ick. 

But I know why I always come back.  Because the other options are just as mediocre, and sometimes moreso. 

 

Sigh.

Edited October 4, 2015 by TVWithPity

[madmaverick]

A bit OT, but since Limitless was mentioned... I enjoyed that movie and so checked out the TV pilot.  I was not expecting to be yet another crime procedural but basically that's what it is.  With very familiar elements.  Insert detective helper character with special skills.  Insert detective character with tragic past.  They work together to solve crimes and all things being predictable, will probably have a WT/WT down the line. And oh, insert wider conspiracy because no show can be without one.   Why do network shows always have to follow the same mould?!  I'm passing on Blindspot after what I thought was a terrible pilot but isn't that too another crime procedural with these elements too?  Except the detective helper character is a woman with mysterious tattoos all over her. ;)

 

This is why I've kind of given up on network shows.  Especially procedurals.

Edited October 4, 2015 by madmaverick

[verdana]

 

And if she thinks merely by her moving out that Castle won't try to figure out what she's investigating, well, again, somebody is forgetting the entire embodiment of his character. 

What sticks in my craw is that the writers in order to pursue this story forget the entire embodiment of both characters. What have I been watching for the last three seasons? Kate Beckett becoming more than a woman obsessed with her mother's murder which had almost taken over he entire existence and Castle helped her achieve this goal. They did it together she would never have got there without him and he likewise would not be the person he is today without her and now we're right back to where we started. Jesus! She's heading off solo to pursue justice and needlessly sacrificing her own happiness and everything she worked for in order to do so and worse leaving her husband too and that's unforgivable - the shark has jumped for me at this point. Sure I'll carry on watching but it's finally happened and there's no going back now. 

 

I hope once this story is done they have Beckett realise she's fucked up, I don't need to see her "taken down a peg" or any of that bullshit but I do need to see she's learnt a hard lesson and won't be pulling this kind of stunt again because if they don't at some stage make that clear and she just goes back to him after all this is over he shrugs and accepts it "because he loves her" their marriage isn't remotely healthy or viable - only in a fantasy land that fans create in their own minds. 

Edited October 4, 2015 by verdana

[WendyCR72]

Why do network shows always have to follow the same mould?!

 

Because, love them or hate them, procedurals make money, especially in syndication. Blue Bloods, Law & Order: Criminal Intent, and Law & Order: Special Victims Unit, as three examples, seem to never leave the Syndication ratings chart.

 

Procedurals are paint by numbers, they do have a formula, but they can be shown out of order with little trouble which means viewers don't have to remember tons of details since the personal stuff is peripheral or, if greater, a smaller B plot.

 

When procedurals stop with the gravy train, then and only then will they die.

[madmaverick]

I get that.  But why do the characters in these procedurals often have the same characteristics?  There should be a tally of all the female characters with a Tragic Past.  Is there no other way to make these characters interesting?