S08.E02: XX (2)

[Blackrock1]

I really don't understand the accusation that it's somehow Nathan's fault for this storyline.  Didn't Stana herself tweet after she'd re-signed that after talking with the showrunners, she was excited about the future plans for Beckett?

Not taking sides, just an observation. She also tweeted after "XY" @Stana_Katic: Thank you all for watching. Welcome to Season 8.

No a very enthusiastic endorsement.

What are the chances that she signed based on the big payday (well earned by both leads IMO) and the chance to do some meaty acting with her Beckett character. NOT based on the evolution(or convolution) of the romance?

[humean316]

Alright, so just a bit of devil's advocate here:

 

Beckett didn't have a choice IMO, and here is why. When you dedicate your life to justice, when your mom died trying to find justice, and when you think you have finally found justice in a place you never thought you would only to discover something bigger and worse, that has to change you in a couple of ways. First, it tends to make your obsession that you thought you had overcome even greater than before. Second and most important though, it makes you question all that your life and your center means in this world. For Beckett, she has dedicated her life to justice, the central element in a life she feels is well lived. The choice presented to her was this: give all of that up, let it go, and just be Castle's wife or you can go find that justice you made a vow you would never stop finding. Plus, I think it's what hero's do. What are you willing to sacrifice in order to find justice? Are you willing to give up your life-long pursuit of justice or do you sacrifice in order to do what others cannot? Beckett, unlike others, is willing to give up her happiness in order to find where that thread might lead. There you go. My take.

[WendyCR72]

Alright, so just a bit of devil's advocate here:

 

Beckett didn't have a choice IMO, and here is why. When you dedicate your life to justice, when your mom died trying to find justice, and when you think you have finally found justice in a place you never thought you would only to discover something bigger and worse, that has to change you in a couple of ways. First, it tends to make your obsession that you thought you had overcome even greater than before. Second and most important though, it makes you question all that your life and your center means in this world. For Beckett, she has dedicated her life to justice, the central element in a life she feels is well lived. The choice presented to her was this: give all of that up, let it go, and just be Castle's wife or you can go find that justice you made a vow you would never stop finding. Plus, I think it's what hero's do. What are you willing to sacrifice in order to find justice? Are you willing to give up your life-long pursuit of justice or do you sacrifice in order to do what others cannot? Beckett, unlike others, is willing to give up her happiness in order to find where that thread might lead. There you go. My take.

 

Fair enough. But in making such a unilateral decision without input from her spouse, ideally she should be prepared if said spouse says enough and moves on. Of course, that isn't happening, but it seems like more of a realistic response to me.

[ksb]

Theoretically speaking, this makes sense, of course. But, IMO, this reasoning doesn't make sense for the Beckett character at his point. At least, I can't buy it.

[Chado]

Alright, so just a bit of devil's advocate here:

 

Beckett didn't have a choice IMO, and here is why. When you dedicate your life to justice, when your mom died trying to find justice, and when you think you have finally found justice in a place you never thought you would only to discover something bigger and worse, that has to change you in a couple of ways. First, it tends to make your obsession that you thought you had overcome even greater than before. Second and most important though, it makes you question all that your life and your center means in this world. For Beckett, she has dedicated her life to justice, the central element in a life she feels is well lived. The choice presented to her was this: give all of that up, let it go, and just be Castle's wife or you can go find that justice you made a vow you would never stop finding. Plus, I think it's what hero's do. What are you willing to sacrifice in order to find justice? Are you willing to give up your life-long pursuit of justice or do you sacrifice in order to do what others cannot? Beckett, unlike others, is willing to give up her happiness in order to find where that thread might lead. There you go. My take.

You just said she had no choice and then 5 sentences later laid out her choice for her. So yes, she did make a choice. Her choice wasn't Castle.

 

As for the rest, that's all fine if that's what she wants to do, but she should tell Castle that. She should let him find somebody who is looking for the same things in life as he is. She is being selfish, and Castle is going to get made to look like a fool from all of this.

 

Everybody should be able to pursue whatever they want in life, but don't lie about it, don't be dishonest. Her blatant lies cannot be excused away by a troubled past. Everybody has a story, so many people have gone through life with parents lost in their childhood. I don't buy that her choice has been taken away from her, not for one minute.

[KaveDweller]

I've been trawling tumblr and reading the reviews, comments etc. Seen quite a few passionate articles supporting the story (and Beckett of course some are better than others), I know you should always try and respect other fans opinions but honestly some individuals seem to be a little too desperately spinning this as a case of organic character development not sure who they're trying to convince (themselves maybe?) but after reading their posts I'm sorry I just don't see that, all I see is a chronic lack of imagination and throwing the characters under a bus to bring a story about because they couldn't write them together as a couple.

 

However, I did see one comment that I thought applied to Beckett, they suggested what the writers did to her character this episode was not a case of character regression but clear case of abandonment and I think they're spot on.  That's why I can't get upset with Beckett unlike other times in her trajectory because this story is so lacking in any logic and came out of nowhere for her that any blame or anger should land straight on the writer's doorstep. 

 

I can't get mad at her either, because I still don't believe the character we've seen for the past 7 seasons would do what she did.  I'm mad at the writers for this one and hoping they can find some way to redeem her and salvage the love story.

Glad someone else was also thinking this.  Whoever is styling/doing make up for Alexis needs to be sacked.  She has always been a no-frills type of girl - not a lot of makeup, more casual clothes.  When did she turn 40 and start piling on the heavy heavy makeup?  And "SuperAlexis" just bugs.  The computer enhancement scene was ridiculous.  Send her back to college, or let her get a real job and pop in now and again.  Trying to make her into another Veronica Mars is not working.

 

I didn't read anything about this season, so had no idea that there are issues between the actors.  Is Haley going to be a regular?  The Step-mom?  I'll give it another episode or two, but this show is losing me fast.  Which is sort of sad.

If you haven't read anything about this season you wouldn't have seen this, but the writers keep talking about Alexis being an adult now. So, that explains the wardrobe, sort of.  But you can be a 22 year-old adult without dressing like a 40 year-old.

 

I find the tone of the promo bizarre because it's so upbeat yet we've just had this almighty slap in the face and what about that risk factor...like you I don't understand how he's at less risk now. It's not just over this latest drama but also his new role being a PI. He's out in the field without her and all he has for company is his badly dressed super sleuth daughter and Hayley who likes operating outside of legal boundaries which surely spells more trouble for Castle.  

 

Also, what about everyone else, her dad? Martha? Alexis? If they want to get to her they can get to her through any one she or Castle cares about. The whole thing is just stupid as if sleeping in a different bed from him makes any difference to how safe they will be.

 

Yeah, Rita said that attachments were the danger, so even if Castle doesn't know what she's doing they could still use him to get to her.

 

What are the chances that she signed based on the big payday (well earned by both leads IMO) and the chance to do some meaty acting with her Beckett character. NOT based on the evolution(or convolution) of the romance?

 

I would expect the money would be the primary reason for re-signing.  I don't blame her one bit. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by KaveDweller

[madmaverick]

What are the chances that she signed based on the big payday (well earned by both leads IMO) and the chance to do some meaty acting with her Beckett character. NOT based on the evolution(or convolution) of the romance?

 

Oh, I agree both signed because of a big payday more than any storyline considerations.  And I'm well aware that actors have different considerations about that than fans may have.  They're probably excited to play something new and fresh and anything meaty, and that's understandable.  Stana may relish a Bracken 2.0 arc.  

 

But unless there's more definitive evidence, I just don't feel it's fair to assign blame for the breakup storyline onto one actor or the other, or assume that BTS issues are driving it.  They may have their personal issues but it's another thing to say that they're being unprofessional to that point.  The BTS behind breakup theory is circulating a lot, but did I miss the memo on where it's coming from? From someone who knows that for a fact?

Edited September 29, 2015 by madmaverick

[humean316]

Fair enough. But in making such a unilateral decision without input from her spouse, ideally she should be prepared if said spouse says enough and moves on. Of course, that isn't happening, but it seems like more of a realistic response to me.

 

Well, she can't really tell him can she? Rick Castle, the man who never would leave her side, the guy she is trying to protect from this, the guy who will never stop investigating, is the one guy she cannot tell. Unless she wants him to die. She is basically not breaking up with Castle, but asking him to wait, to not try to figure things out while she does something she feels as though her life and her beliefs force her to do.

 

Quick question, if you know there is something wrong in the world, how wrong is it of YOU to simply give it up in order to be happy? Answer that and you will know why Beckett had to do this...

[tessaray]

Quick question, if you know there is something wrong in the world, how wrong is it of YOU to simply give it up in order to be happy? Answer that and you will know why Beckett had to do this...

 

There are too many things wrong in the world for one person to solve them.  If I could save the whole world and bring in peace and harmony forever but have to give up everything that I love, that's one choice and who knows what I would decide.  But there's always going to be another bad guy and another crisis right after they close the books on this one. 

 

This kind of writing ruined Arrow for me but even they had to lighten up eventually and admit that no one person can be a hero 24/7.   And even heroes deserve love, a home and a family - or where do you get the emotional strength to carry on?  If Kate wants to keep fighting the good fight, fine but if anyone could understand and be there for her, you would think it would be Castle.

[madmaverick]

Quick question, if you know there is something wrong in the world, how wrong is it of YOU to simply give it up in order to be happy? Answer that and you will know why Beckett had to do this...

 

Castle's not asking her to give it up.  I believe if she chose to involve him or even discussed the matter with him, he would be happy to have her back, like always.  He wouldn't find it conceivable for it to be any other way, even if he wasn't fully on board with her cause.  She chose to exclude him, give up on them as a team and their marriage, without even asking his opinion.  And if she gets herself killed going it alone, that might as well 'kill' Castle emotionally if not physically.  

[Sonik Tooth]

That was actually quite mind-boggling. I refer to my favourite quote in such cases: Everyone in this room is now dumber for having listened to it. I award you no points and may god have mercy on your soul.

 

Surely they could have come up with another plot to drive them partially apart so that Castle can insinuate himself into Beckett’s cases and life by playing PI. That premise, I would have been cool with before I watched this episode. And I also don’t mind that Bracken is not the end of line, as it is somewhere called la Piovra and there are always more. And that it may or may be not tied to Castle’s 6 weeks off the grid.

 

I think it really would have helped the episode (and maybe the following story) if Beckett’s intentions were kept from the audience. Like you only see Beckett and Rita, know that there is an important discussion going on (looking torn, grim, hugging, whatever, with just doomsday music for the viewer to hear) but in the end, you are in the same situation as Castle, basically clueless as to why Beckett is leaving him. And over the next episodes, the audience gets little pieces of the puzzle and the focus is more on what she’s finding out than on: Why the hell did she make that decision, does she really think Castle is save now? Isn’t she watching any TV?

 

Oh, and for the following weeks I really hope that they tone every character one, two, three notch(es) down.

[Cyranetta]

Oddly enough, I can't really get into siding with either Castle or Beckett, because the whole UberConspiracy is like that great rolling boulder in Indiana Jones that just smashes everyone in its path, which is what bothers me so much about it as a story engine -- it's just too unwieldy to be workable, so all your characters can do is dodge out of its way, if possible.

 

This season is beginning to remind me of late-seasons X-Files, with a nest of conspiracies spinning out of control, and the showrunner's stated delight in denying the main characters' relationship, and little, if anything, making any sense.

 

And I have to assume that SpyStepMommy is a doozy of a secret Beckett is keeping from Castle (why, exactly, since there was no dialogue that I remember of Rita instructing Beckett to keep her existence secret from Castle?), because there was certainly no mention of her between them, and that could have been a fascinating conversation ("What do you mean, my stepmother saved you?" ). The longer that secret is kept, the deeper the chasm between them...my head hurts.

[Clanstarling]

Well, I said I'd watch this ep from Beckett's point of view before deciding to remove Castle from my DVR. Yeah, that just confirmed my decision. I enjoyed Castle when it was light, with a bit of darkness thrown in. When Espo and Ryan, and Martha had a lot to do and were part of the ensemble, and not just up for a  line or two. But now it's mostly darkness, with maybe a glimmer of light. I'm tired of big bad bad bad's and season(s)  long arcs.

 

But as much as I love Nathan, I'm not enjoying it. I didn't really enjoy it much last year either. I don't really care about any behind the scenes rumors - the industry is built on people who don't get along but can act. I don't care about the showrunners - though their "there's no drama in happiness" statement was flat out stupid.

 

So, I'm off to remove my series recording.

[TWP]

Sweettooth, I don't think Verdana suggested that dichotomy, only responded to it.

I haven't watched the episode, and won't, but I agree with those who don't blame the characters. They, along with the viewers are the victims. What a bunch of artificial nonsense. WTWT is so boring after one stretch of it. I have no patience for two stretches.

As far as I'm concerned, Castle ended last season. This is some other show. BTW, did anyone see a Shonda Rhimes consulting credit on the episode. ....because this kind of silliness has Shonda written all over it.

[Elysium1973]

Like samantha mentioned, I stopped giving a shit about this show around 6x23, and keep watching only out of a misguided sense of obligation (and so I can keep up with my amazing verdana)! I knew about the spoilers (Hal rocks it out again!) and just couldn't help driving by the scene of this accident.
What a mess. Why would Stana sign off for such character abandonment (well said)? Maybe she doesn't give two fucks and just wanted the check, not that I blame her. And no one is EVER going to get confirmation that BTS issues lead to this debacle - it doesn't work like that. But I think you can make reasonable assumptions. Speaking of, what the hell was that "kiss" in the airplane hangar? Did anyone else notice they weren't even kissing? It was this odd cheek thing which looked awkward af.
That said, you can have two actors who can't keep their hands off each other (David and Gillian on X Files) and you still have a shit for brains creator who thinks it's a great idea to "reset" (read: breakup) that relationship because he doesn't know how to write happy either. So, it could be the actors, could be some dipshit writers/creators/showrunners, could be the network, who the fuck knows? But it's bullshit for fans no matter how you slice it.

[shapeshifter]

So last week they had Ryan mention he needed more money with another baby on the way. Does that mean he will get to be a temporary captain now?

Alexis/Hayley is another problem.  When Alexis asked the tech guy to get out of the way so she could enlarge the mirror image, my eyes rolled so hard they almost rolled out of my head.  I don't have a problem with a new character coming on but Hayley adds nothing to the show.

I assumed Alexis doing the ol' CSI Impossible Photo Enhancement was supposed to make the audience laugh--but it didn't.

Then the goodbye between Alexis and Hayley was almost a get-a-room-already moment.

I hope Hayley is gone for good because Toks Olagundoye was so stunning and smart and funny in The Neighbors, but here they are making her frumpy (I guess to prevent shipping) and of questionable character (I guess to keep the whodunnit going).

Speaking of questionable characters: Vikram.

I think it was supposed to be clear that Beckett left to protect Castle--but it wasn't clear.

[sinkwriter]

 

 

I again liked the episode overall, but the end makes zero sense if they're still working together at times. Castle can be killed whether she's living in the loft or not. It's so contrived.

 

 

I have no problem with Beckett trying to find out who the Bigger Bad is.  It actually seems like something interesting. What I really hate is that she left Castle to do it.  It's a stupid trope, it nearly killed the last two seasons of Arrow, and I have zero interest in seeing it play out here, especially since one of the best things about the show was the relationship between Castle and Beckett now that they finally got together.

 

Exactly. 

 

I think my issue with this is that it doesn't matter if they're apart or together when she goes to investigate this supposed case to bring justice to her fallen colleagues. If the big bad finds out she's still investigating it, would they really think she no longer cares about Castle just because she's trying to give the appearance that they're not together anymore? Would they really believe that they can't use Castle or Martha or Alexis as leverage against Beckett? No. Because if they believed that, they'd be really stupid bad guys. 

 

So to me it doesn't matter if she keeps at this case with or without Castle. She's not protecting him by keeping him out of the loop and leaving him. She's making him vulnerable because he's out of the loop on whatever she's doing and he won't know if someone's about to show up and punish him or his family for whatever Beckett's doing. 

 

In my eyes, her choice is a foolish one that could get all of them killed. And she doesn't see it. Because the writers are making her and her ridiculous argument really, really stupid. I don't think the writers have thought this one through. They're just trying to create separation melodrama, even if it really doesn't make any sense.

[sinkwriter]

Plus! Wouldn't she have already learned from these 2 episodes that keeping things from Castle doesn't keep him safe? He was tortured with tarantulas (*shudder*) and he almost got killed. If she hadn't been lucky enough to show up in time, he would have been killed. Did she learn nothing from not telling him the truth or keeping him in the loop? I mean, come on, writers... how stupid are you making this woman? That's not the logical Beckett I love from the early seasons.

[KaveDweller]

I've been trawling tumblr and reading the reviews, comments etc. Seen quite a few passionate articles supporting the story (and Beckett of course some are better than others), I know you should always try and respect other fans opinions but honestly some individuals seem to be a little too desperately spinning this as a case of organic character development not sure who they're trying to convince (themselves maybe?) but after reading their posts I'm sorry I just don't see that, all I see is a chronic lack of imagination and throwing the characters under a bus to bring a story about because they couldn't write them together as a couple.

 

However, I did see one comment that I thought applied to Beckett, they suggested what the writers did to her character this episode was not a case of character regression but clear case of abandonment and I think they're spot on.  That's why I can't get upset with Beckett unlike other times in her trajectory because this story is so lacking in any logic and came out of nowhere for her that any blame or anger should land straight on the writer's doorstep. 

The producers have pretty much admitted they are regressing her character.  They said they wanted to go with the idea that she thought she put her obsession behind her, then realized it was still bubbling up inside of her.  They know it's going backwards.

Maybe the explanation is going to be that it isn't really safe for them to work together, but Castle doesn't know about the safety issue.  So he keeps showing up, and Kate kinda doesn't want him there because of the safety thing.  But she also kinda does want him there because ultimately, she does really love him.  And I think she really does believe she's protecting him.  Only she's not and I just want to reach into my TV and shake some sense into her.

 

But again, I don't see this dynamic working more than a few episodes.

 

Castle's not asking her to give it up.  I believe if she chose to involve him or even discussed the matter with him, he would be happy to have her back, like always.  He wouldn't find it conceivable for it to be any other way, even if he wasn't fully on board with her cause.  She chose to exclude him, give up on them as a team and their marriage, without even asking his opinion.  And if she gets herself killed going it alone, that might as well 'kill' Castle emotionally if not physically.  

 

I think she was planning on investigating this with Castle, until Rita gave her the "You're going to get him killed" speech.  Should we trust Rita?

[Julia]

The last thing that these two should be doing is having kids together, not with Beckett in this state of mind. But at this stage anything goes and they need to fit a baby in at some point so I can see them doing that because they know the majority would lap it up and forget everything else. 

 

Especially since I'm sure retcon Castle is adorably incompetent with babies.

[femmefan1946]

If someone said that to me while choosing to walk out on our marriage because of a misguided desire to see through some obsession, I would be incredibly hurt and pissed and there might be no going back even if I loved that person.  Because how can you ever trust that Beckett won't do something like this again?

 

Wait a minute. Wasn't that the basis of A Chill Goes Through Her Veins? The murder of the wife went unnoticed because she had a habit of running off? So who's gong to be Beckett's killer? Martha? Jim?

 

Another completely ridiculous theory--

Vikram was sick because, being on the run, he hadn't taken his meds.

Beckett has the same problem. She's not taking the lithium or valium or whatever has been keeping her clinical depression and OCD at bay for the past few years, during which she was able to form an actual relationship.

From the experiences of some friends with similar issues, once they started to feel better, they all too often stopped the meds. Which have some uncomfortable side effects. And then plunge down the rabbit hole again.

Either she missed her afternoon dose or had already stopped taking the drugs.

How much of XX is actually her hallucinations?

[lookeyloo]

What happened to our show? In our house we enjoyed coming in on the crime and the process by which they solved it. And the banter. We are disappointed in this turn of events.

[371012]

FemmeFan I fear that will be a substantially more plausible explanation than anything we will be served this season.

[mandigirl]

Rarely do series this old find new audiences and I can't imagine that all involved don't know that won't happen.  So I really don't see that as a motive here.

 

Oh Castle lovers! This is directly out of the Shonda Rhimes play-book. In ABC's continued quest to turn the network into the Shonda network (did anyone see Greys: the Quantico edition on Sunday?) this crapfest is another one of her worn tricks. When you can't give the fans what they want, make them ANGRY instead. Because anger= fan engagement. Seriously. She's said this. 

 

The senseless character assassination, the emphasis on UST, the endless double-speak by the showrunners-- anyone who ever watched Greys would recognize it in a second. For an aging show, getting fans to hate-watch replaces actually coming up with fresh ideas.  This strategy buoyed Greys for years. 

 

I know so many people have said this before, but why would Castle ever have to win back his wife here? Why would he ever have to feel the need to? She left him. She has chosen to pursue a case over being with him. Their response to that is to have Castle ignore all of that and "prove" to her that they work best together? 

 

Castle is madly in love with Kate. And though a crazy alien has inhabited her body for the last two episodes, Beckett has proven many times that she loves Castle. She was clearly conflicted and miserable when she left. I would be disappointed in Castle if he DIDN'T try to get her back. They're married and she's clearly going through something. 

Edited September 30, 2015 by mandigirl

[FormerCastleFan]

I'm confused. I rewatched the final scene and Beckett starts by telling Rick she needs to get her head on right....to get their Happily Ever After, but then she refers to doing it on her own and hopes he'll take her back when she is "done".

Needing space to get your head on right is not something that is "done"; it is about feeling better or improvement....an ongoing process, which will never be "done". An activity, even thankless, unachievable tasks are "done".

This difference in each half of the scene suggests to me that the first half was rewritten to make it more palatable to shipper fans they were about to piss off. Hopefully this change means they are rethinking the duration of the split.

At any rate I will be taking the show one episode at a time. If an episode appeals to me I may watch it, if not, I will skip it. Right I see no reason to watch the next couple episodes, nor will I watch the episode with Slaughter (can't stand Adam Baldwin).

[Tim]

All we need now is for Kate to have to go to hospital and Guess Who is her surgeon, Cue Music, enter Dr. Motorcycle Boy, back to Season 3 apparently Alexi left Castle but is frozen in time warp of the last 3 years.  All character, story growth are now a lie, and what MilMar started with Destroying Trust these two (Hawley Winters) just tried to put the fire out with Gasoline.  Even if Rick wins Kate back, and at this point I would tell her to take a flying F off a rolling doughnut, how long will it be till the next big case comes along and he is in second place again.  She said it best one foot out the door, never did correct that, and IMO too late to try now.  Anybody else curious as to what happened to Rob Hanning this year FAR to quiet

[FormerCastleFan]

The showrunner mentioned something else "fun" happening at the fall break. I really, really hope that Kate Beckett is NOT pregnant. The last thing that woman needs is a baby...ever! What would happen the next time she goes down a rabbit hole. Assuming Rick is the dad, would he be stuck raising the kid alone...again? But what a dramatic scene it would be as she kisses her baby goodbye. ¿¿

[Blackrock1]

 

I think she was planning on investigating this with Castle, until Rita gave her the "You're going to get him killed" speech.  Should we trust Rita?

Did Beckett ever say she was going to pursue the big bad? I thought she said she was leaving to get her head straight. Is there a chance she will take some time to get therapy and examine her obsessive behavior? NOT to launch an investigation?

Not sure I care anymore because this train is off the rails for me.

[FormerCastleFan]

Tim, there is an interview from the 21st where the showrunner discuss being able to do stories they wanted to do 4 years ago but weren't able (allowed?) to do before. Thus, the time warp sounds about right.

[Bubbles]

Sigh. Call me crazy, but it seems like intensive therapy with the support of your loving husband might be a more effective strategy for getting a grip on an all-consuming obsession than leaving your husband and diving headlong into said obsession. You don't fix yourself by leaning into what's broken.

It's ridiculous that TPTB think this move increases the stakes on the relationship. If you don't believe that they'll be tearfully reunited during a sweeps period sometime this season, you clearly don't watch enough television.

[Tim]

Tim, there is an interview from the 21st where the showrunner discuss being able to do stories they wanted to do 4 years ago but weren't able (allowed?) to do before. Thus, the time warp sounds about right.

Thanks I saw that and sad to say I have added Former to my Fan Status as well, See my post in what is not working for the details  Good Nite All

[TWP]

Chuckle.....protecting Castle......it occurred to me that the showrunners will go to some amazing lengths when all they'd really need to do is (finally) move Castle into a secured building... ;-).

 

I also stumbled onto the fact that Castle is going on winter hiatus in mid November and won't be back until February. No doubt the makeup will be the cliffhanger. Or maybe we'll find out prehiatus that Castle has given up on this flakey woman and has met someone else (Please let it be. He deserves it.)

[FlickerToAFlame]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

[AntiBeeSpray]

I think this is a classic case of writers thinking they are so much smarter than they really are and in turn treating fans as so much dumber than they really are.....

 

Like what CSI did with Gil and Sara divorcing. Or how FOX has been treating fans at times during the XF revival. Joy. Glad I missed this ep. 

[Chado]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

Or it's just a nod to the movie, and the episode is themed around spies and it means absolutely nothing.

[WendyCR72]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

 

Thinking it's more like someone else said, a nod to the movie Mr. and Mrs. Smith, all about spies with guns, etc. But at this point, who really knows?

[verdana]

Oh Castle lovers! This is directly out of the Shonda Rhimes play-book. In ABC's continued quest to turn the network into the Shonda network (did anyone see Greys: the Quantico edition on Sunday?) this crapfest is another one of her worn tricks. When you can't give the fans what they want, make them ANGRY instead. Because anger= fan engagement. Seriously. She's said this. 

 

The senseless character assassination, the emphasis on UST, the endless double-speak by the showrunners-- anyone who ever watched Greys would recognize it in a second. For an aging show, getting fans to hate-watch replaces actually coming up with fresh ideas.  This strategy buoyed Greys for years. 

I have never watched Greys and don't ever plan to after reading this. God that is an incredibly depressing attitude to have but it obviously works given Shonda's power, as I understand it doesn't she almost own ABC? 

 

Castle: XX – A Good Cop/Bad Cop Review by Lee Lofland 

Edited September 30, 2015 by verdana

[Nadine]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

I was the one who initially posted on Twitter and then deleted it :)

[femmefan1946]

And add to my dumb idea that Dr. Burks put Beckett on some kind of medication-- the reason she went off is because --- she's pregnant.

And while hospitalized for her psychotic break, she has an affair with Dr. Motorcycle Boy and .....

 

Right I see no reason to watch the next couple episodes,

 

But... but .... but...Nathan in glasses!

 

Oh hell, I'm gonna go watch Trash again.

 

 

 

Well, who the hell ain't? -- Captain Malcolm Reynolds.

[Chado]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

Renew their vows? That would give them 6 episodes of having Castle try to win back his wife who left him before he proposes again. How romantic.

 

We're going to see nothing from Beckett are we? All this effort is just going to be Castle.

[ksb]

The one thing I can't get past: If they really needed to break them up for whatever reason, at least come up with something that doesn't insult my intelligence yet again and makes me wish the show ended with last season's finale.

[madmaverick]

I read here (but can't find it) that either 8x07 or 8x08 is tentatively titled "Mr. and Mrs. Castle." Maybe for sweeps they renew their vows for their anniversary? Either that or Mrs. Castle is Alexis ;).

 

 

I think you will be happy.

Good to hear. I think I'll be happy.  (Not actually a big fan of the Pitt & Jolie version, but let's see if we can beat them in the chemistry stakes.)

 

Ridiculous contrived breakup and character regression aside, there was stuff that I enjoyed in the episode.  Despite the ridiculousness of the conspiracy plots, I thought the two parter was more interestingly written, or at least less boring, than Marlowe/Amann's efforts in the same vein.  There are still some ridiculous lines from time to time, but on the whole I found TPW/AH to be a bit better in terms of dialogue, and there was more energy instead of just pure exposition to character interactions.  The writing does feel a bit fresher.  Also, I thought the introduction of new characters like Hayley and Vikram was done better compared to McCord & team, whom all felt bland even after 3 episodes.  You can already get a sense of actual personality from these new characters, which is more than I can say for someone like Tory after God knows how many episodes.

 

I liked Rita, aka SpyStepMommy heh.  Her lines were delivered in such a matter of fact way that you kind of wanted to laugh, even when you didn't know if she was being dead serious or not.  Like the line about getting the families together lol.  Although I don't really need to see SpyStepSiblings at this point.  I would like to see Castle and Martha find out about Rita though just to see the looks on their faces.  The scene with Rita, Beckett and Vikram in the car was also quite funny.  Her final scene with Beckett had a lot of clunky lines but it had its purpose obviously. ;)

 

One thing I didn't understand was why Rita, being an agent in an exclusive 3 letter agency, seemed to swan in and out of Beckett's investigation after she rescued them.  Shouldn't she have been keeping tabs on Beckett at all times?  And I don't really understand why Beckett was out on the street on her own at the end, without Castle or a security detail in sight?  I was waiting for that cliched trick of someone coming up to her with a gun and telling her to get in the car. ;)

 

A lot of the conspiracy is just noise to me blah blah Bigger Bad blah blah, but why would the people who were after Beckett & the whole AG team stop now just because that AG woman was their patsy?  She was working for the Big Bad already and took the fall for the other agents' death but aren't the Big Bad still concerned about what Beckett & Vikram know about Locksat?  And they didn't actually go on air to publicise the conspiracy to protect themselves that way?  It was just to lure the baddies to Castle's PI office, which, yeah they had a plan at first but I was also thinking, all these cops and no one watches the door?  

 

I did actually end up liking that gun coming out of the desk and Castle doing the honours.  I'm with Vikram, that was cool.  Vikram, Castle and Beckett's dorky faces afterwards all made me laugh.  Nice bit of comedy.

 

Hiya, Martha.  Nice to see you bring coffee.  Will be really interested to see her and Alexis' relationship to Beckett going forward.  My guess is that they'll continue to embrace her as family even if they don't agree with her reasoning (who would?!).  I did like that Alexis said straight up that Beckett was family.  I did also like that Castle expressed more concern about Alexis being involved in the PI work.  All in all, the character interactions felt authentic to me, with the exception of the big break up of course.

 

Castle putting a positive spin on things and trying to win back his wife with his wiles may not be the reaction of a normal person to Beckett's kind of bombshell, but maybe the writers can make us see things Castle's way.  Castle's ability to never give up and keep worming his way into Beckett has always been how he is.  He's not going to give up on his marriage just like that, even if the logic of his wife leaving their marriage to save it is absurd.  I would rather see proactive Castle with a plan than bitter, lashing out douchebag arc Castle.  Doesn't mean that Caskett aren't in need of a very serious talk because Beckett's issues are hugely problematic in any marriage.  Thank God for no Caskett babies.  She's clearly not ready.

 

Oh, one other eyeroll moment was when Beckett talked about having to work outside the system to take down the conspiracy.  Man, you're a Captain now.  You're part of the system, the establishment now, and if you don't believe in using it to take down serious threats, you shouldn't have aimed for a command post.  You can't really be that kind of rebel operating outside the system when you're a Captain.  I did want to laugh again when that AG woman praised Beckett and offered her a DC command, because didn't Beckett break a lot of rules by operating on her own?  At least AG woman turned out to be a stupid baddie.  But have to handwave RebelBecks obviously, because I doubt we've seen the last of Badass Rebel Capt. Beckett in her Badass Black Turtleneck for the rest of the season. ;)

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmaverick

[sinkwriter]

 

Ridiculous contrived breakup and character regression aside, there was stuff that I enjoyed in the episode.

 

Agreed! I actually liked both parts of the two-parter. They just lost me with the ending. *shakes head* Almost two days later... yep, still ridiculous.

[madmaverick]

Agreed! I actually liked both parts of the two-parter. They just lost me with the ending. *shakes head* Almost two days later... yep, still ridiculous.

This may have been the most ridiculous character decision yet, but I've developed a remarkable ability over the years to redact ridiculous, unpalatable parts of characterisation on Castle from my brain, so maybe that'll do the trick again this time? ;)  It is what it is, and I'm just going to try not to take it too seriously, roll with it, and be open to the characterisation being redeemed somewhat in the future.

Edited September 30, 2015 by madmaverick

[sinkwriter]

 

It is what it is, and I'm just going to try not to take it too seriously, roll with it, and be open to the characterisation being redeemed somewhat in the future.

 

Here's hoping!  ;)

 

Seriously, I used to get so worked up about Bones, to the point of enormous frustration with the writers, and I eventually had to stop watching for a while because I was just getting so irritated. Which is probably not the action the writers were going for, having me stop watching entirely, but... there you have it. They didn't seem to mind that the characters seemed totally out of character from what they had established, but it really bothered me. I kept hoping they'd change, but they didn't. The only thing that kept me watching was TJ Thyne. But after a while of being really irritated with how they were writing Booth and Brennan, I just needed to step away for a while. (It's been 3 seasons now. I'm sure I'll catch up at some point, but they pretty much lost a viewer. Not that they care about one viewer, LOL.)

 

Anyway, the point is, I think after Bones I just haven't gotten that emotionally invested - I enjoy lots of shows, but I can't get that worked up ever again. I can say, that Castle plot was ridiculous and I don't like it, but I don't feel the heat behind it like I did with frustrating parts of Bones. I'll just see how things go with this Castle stuff, and if it gets bad enough where I truly stop caring about the characters, I'll stop watching. But I'm not there yet with this show. I still enjoy it for the most part. I just wish certain elements from the early seasons remained a little more prevalent.

Edited September 30, 2015 by sinkwriter

[verdana]

This may have been the most ridiculous character decision yet, but I've developed a remarkable ability over the years to redact ridiculous, unpalatable parts of characterisation on Castle from my brain, so maybe that'll do the trick again this time? ;) It is what it is, and I'm just going to try not to take it too seriously, roll with it, and be open to the characterisation being redeemed somewhat in the future.

I wish I could do that right now, it would make things so much easier and I must try but then an episode like this comes along that sullies the entire endeavour. I could have liked this episode but then the writers went and insulted my intelligence (not to mention harming the characters) and had Kate doing a WTF turnaround in the dying minutes and that was it. I can't watch it again knowing what's waiting for me at the very end. Sigh

[Bubbi63]

Hi, I am new here.  I lurk but just had to come out of hiding because of this mess called Castle.  First, I just read SK interview on why she came back for S8 and a certain amount of character control was given her.

That being said--IMO she wanted this.  The shake up or whatever it is called now.  In the interest of full disclosure I have never been the SK fan so many are but I have always loved her and NF together.  It is central and an intricate dynamic of this show. 

 

I do not understand what I just watched. Step mom told her she was no longer in danger nor was Castle once the AG gal was dead but Kate seems to think she has to right all the wrongs of the world. This is not knew to her character--it is who she has always been. Self centered (no body does it better) with a super woman complex who can leap tall buildings--except she can't.  So the writers want to give this newly married couple issues--ok--why this?  There is no coming back from this--not really because it suggests a personality disorder for Beckett that is not going to go away when she slays this dragon.

 

No I am not interested in what appears to be an entire season of fleshing out KB disorders and Castle groveling to get her back.

Thank you for letting me vent and say goodbye to what has been my favorite show. I will stick to reruns tucked away on my DVR.

 

[verdana]

So the writers want to give this newly married couple issues--ok--why this?  There is no coming back from this--not really because it suggests a personality disorder for Beckett that is not going to go away when she slays this dragon.

That's something they've got to sort out if the writers want this story to be remotely satisfying and progress Beckett as a character. If the situation resolves itself in some convenient way that allows Castle back into her life and removes the threat but Beckett takes no visible steps to sort out her underlying personal issues, then it's pointless them getting back together because the problem is still there and a constant threat to their relationship.    

Edited September 30, 2015 by verdana

[FlickerToAFlame]

I think you will be happy.

Thanks, Hal, for this and for giving us time to prepare for what was going to happen this past episode. Much better than being shocked "live" (for me).

I was the one who initially posted on Twitter and then deleted it :)

Ahh, so it's trustworthy then ;) (not being sarcastic, I know you're in the know).

[TWP]

Any bets that viewers won't even get a chance to find out if the couple gets back together before the show is cancelled?  For the first time I've ever seen, Castle is now in the more likely to be cancelled by 2016 category.  Show runners have some serious noggin from netherparts extraction to do before the November hiatus or I doubt we're going to see a Castle-Beckett reunion.  Maybe Beckett, with her newfound self-surgical skills, will help with that ;-).

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/09/29/abc-renewcancel-standings-week-1-the-muppets-scores-but-what-about-castle-and-nashville/473084/