S31: Ciera Eastin

[KimberStormer]

I'll agree that, in case they were going to vote Ciera on the revote, getting Abi to vote for Kimmi might have been smart (normally I'd say messing with a split-vote plan for your own protection might make people think of Tyson and think you're not to be trusted, but it's Abi, so they probably could have played it off as a mistake or Abi paranoia).  But, if they were going to vote Ciera off on the revote, it wouldn't have mattered in the actual event anyway.  She'd still have gone home.

[NutMeg]

Ciera gave Spencer all the credit for targeting Stephen…that's basically what she told Stephen at Ponderosa. I still like Ciera and think she was a great addition to this season. I didn't root for her on her prior season but I enjoyed her this season. She majorly impacted the game--she was one of the catalyst for the blindside of Savage (YAY Ciera!) and she saved Spencer (YAY Ciera). Major props to her for playing the game hard and for being entertaining (unlike waste of space wiggles). She made moves and played well imo even if she didn't win.

I like the idea of Ciera as a catalyst. Maybe her repeated exhortations that people should play the game somehow ended up subliminally influencing other players, such as Stephen (to his detriment) and Spencer (so far, to his advantage).

 

She's an interesting player but one who is not smooth enough to win (at least this season, with some reflexion and a longer term pace she could be a future winner). As I see it, her ideas are good, but her execution lacks in fluidity/subtelty. I would compare her to someone who's a great short distance runner and signs up for a long distance race. She starts slow, as you're supposed to in order to last the distance, and at some stage she knows she won't be able to go to the end. So she decides to go for what she does best, show how good a sprinter she is, maybe just for the heck of it, for fun, to entertain herself and the public. And of course, we'll all remember the one who came from behind and almost outrun the favorites, whereas the middle of the pack is soon forgotten. But all that effort cannot be sustained in a long race, and at some stage she falters. However, seeing her run with such gusto energizes some runners who were quite happy with their steady pace, and makes them think that if she can do it, they can too. So in this way she really is a great "catalyst" [ and yes, I'm mixing metaphors, but what the heck!].    

[Vicky8675309]

The more I think about Ciera, the more I like her. She fought hard to stay in the game unlike some of them--for example Joe who just seemed to give up and say if it was his time to go then it was his time despite both Wentworth and Spencer telling him he wasn't going and that they were voting for Stephen again. Joe, whom I don't dislike, didn't even try to fight hard to stay in the game whereas Ciera, ever since the merge where she ended up in the bottom, fought her ass off to stay in the game. She used every opportunity available (debating at TC, strategizing and making deals at rewards) to her to fight tooth and nail to stay in the game. I like the underdog who fights hard to stay in the game.

 

I also like it when the females don't fill the traditional "mom" role or the "model" role.. This cast is pretty diverse. Actually the more memorable females on Survivor haven't filled these roles (imo) like Sandra (not nurturing), Candice, Pav, etc… Ciera didn't rely on sex appeal and she didn't cower when an traditional alpha character jeopardized her game. She didn't roll over and show her belly when Savage expected her to do what he wanted. Plus she was upbeat and optimistic. She played and played hard which is what I like. The more I think about her, the more I like and appreciate her.

[Zuleikha]

Yeah, it's ironic to me that she's the one who the Brolliance was dismissing as a waste when she was such a strong fighter this season. I love that she never stopped fighting for the win, and I love that her exit wasn't because she didn't have allies and was on the bottom but rather because of an idol. I also loved seeing her strategizing with everyone after the horrible merge ostracization. 

 

She's an interesting player but one who is not smooth enough to win

We'll never know what would have happened if the merge had been one Tribal Council delayed. I think it's likely Ta Keo 5 would have stuck together with Spencer/Abi in that instance to take control at merge since it sounds like Savage was the main reason Joe/Keith went with Brolliance instead of Ta Keo 5. Jeremy/Stephen wouldn't have gone down without a fight, but with Savage gone, I think they would have had very few inroads. It may have been a very different game.

[scowl]

I thought with her lightning fast metabolism, Ciera would have lost a lot of weight during Survivor.  Really surprised me when she said only about 5 pounds or so.  Any thoughts/explanations?  

 

On both of Courtney Yates's seasons she started off weighing almost nothing and left weighing about the same. I guess your body knows when you got nothing to spare.

Edited November 29, 2015 by scowl

[Oholibamah]

On both of Courtney Yates's seasons she started off weighing almost nothing and left weighing about the same. I guess your body knows when you got nothing to spare.

IIRC, Ciera actually gained 1 pound in BvW!

[Oscirus]

She's an interesting player but one who is not smooth enough to win (at least this season, with some reflexion and a longer term pace she could be a future winner).

 

Barring the wrong person winning immunity at f4, I actually think she would've won if she got past that tribal. Her and the amigas were probably safe for the next few tribals and by the time people started thinking about targeting her, she would've had enough people to start calling the shots.

 

We'll never know what would have happened if the merge had been one Tribal Council delayed. I think it's likely Ta Keo 5 would have stuck together with Spencer/Abi in that instance to take control at merge since it sounds like Savage was the main reason Joe/Keith went with Brolliance instead of Ta Keo 5.

 

Keith jumped because of Kass's actions with Tasha making him uncomfortable. Andrew or no Andrew, they were always going to jump. Besides, there's no guarantee they were going to lose the next IC even if they made it that far.

[JudyObscure]

I thought with her lightning fast metabolism, Ciera would have lost a lot of weight during Survivor.  Really surprised me when she said only about 5 pounds or so.  Any thoughts/explanations?

My thought would be, and I would say the same about Courtney, that they don't have particularly fast metabolisms at all, but are thin because they normally  don't eat much.  So daily Survivor calories aren't that different from what they're used to. I weighed around 110 for years and people always remarked on my "fast metabolism" but I knew I was having black coffee for breakfast, a yogurt for lunch and about 500 calories for dinner. Right now Ciera's body is just trying to get back to its normal.

[EVS]

In her Ponderosa video, IIRC, Ciera said that she gained 5 lbs before going on survivor, then she lost 9 or 10, for a net loss of 4 or 5 lbs.

[ByaNose]

Also, she's been on every food reward, right? They don't starve like good ole days. LOL!!

[Zuleikha]

Keith jumped because of Kass's actions with Tasha making him uncomfortable.

I know that's what we were led to believe by the editing, but per Twitter/exit interviews, the women were being ostracized before the confrontation with Tasha. Had Savage not been there to peel off Joe (and let's be real--ringlead the ostracization), Joe and Spencer's presence may have kept Keith comfortable with Ta Keo 5. Also, Kass and Tasha may not have ever had that confrontation.

 

ETA:

that they don't have particularly fast metabolisms at all, but are thin because they normally  don't eat much.

Ciera's eating a ton at Ponderosa, so I really doubt she regularly skips meals.  Edited November 29, 2015 by Zuleikha

[Oscirus]

I know that's what we were led to believe by the editing, but per Twitter/exit interviews, the women were being ostracized before the confrontation with Tasha

 

And from what Kass said in interviews, they were ostracized because of Tasha.

 

I think Ciera didn't lose a lot of weight because she rarely if ever lost reward challenges.

[Oscirus]

Ok so according to interviews, the main reason that she flipped to Woo was that she was scared that Spence had an idol. If anybody but Spence was the boot, she might have been cool with it. I actually wished she would have kept that story to herself, the person who refuses to let herself be even a secondary target is a better narrative then one about a person scared of the HII. Before you click, I'm not saying it's dumb, just that the first one is a more compelling story.

 

A couple of other things. If she stayed in for that boot, her next step was targeting Joe.  She thought it was ridiculous that Joe is still in the game despite not winning immunity. Also her control over Abi seemed to be more about her tolerating a volatile Abi because she needed the numbers. She was shocked that Andrew got so mad with her about booting Woo because as far as she knew, her and Andrew were pretty close in the game.

Edited December 1, 2015 by Oscirus

[wonald]

I disregard any mention of her plans in the games since she obviously had none. She didnt care as long as she was not targeted. She admits that she will vote anyone out, even her own mother, and she is surprised that noone wanted to pregame with her except Vytas? Huh?

[KimberStormer]

Before you click, I'm not saying it's dumb, just that the first one is a more compelling story.

 

Hahaha, no, I agree with you.  I do think it helps explain why she didn't want to just sit there and take it when her name came up, though.  (I can hear a certain voice in a parallel universe, saying, "Ciera heard her name come up and did nothing.  Terrible, terrible play.  She dug her own grave with this smug complacency, talking about how she knew it wasn't the time to make a move.  On a season like this, with everyone playing so hard, of course Spencer might have the idol.  She should have organized a flip--Abi would have voted for Woo!")

Edited December 1, 2015 by KimberStormer

[slowpoked]

Ciera rips into Andrew for saying she doesn't "deserve" to still be in the game:

 

http://www.sheknows.com/entertainment/articles/1104579/survivor-interview-ciera-eastin

 

 

Honestly, who crowned Andrew king of determining who deserves a chance and who doesn't? I didn't even remember him or his season.

 

Ouch, that was some burn right there. It's quite fascinating to read the exits of these people - they said that they have made up during Ponderosa, but why still dig up old wounds months after and just let the bad blood boil all over again?

[Oscirus]

Not really, she was just answering a question she was asked. That author appeared to be trying to instigate some stuff. Hell, she defended Andrew in another interview.

 

[slowpoked]

Not really, she was just answering a question she was asked. That author appeared to be trying to instigate some stuff. Hell, she defended Andrew in another interview.

I guess I was trying to say more on Andrew's part - if they already made up in Ponderosa, why still say those things during exits? Of course, since his exits came first, no doubt that Ciera would be asked about those eventually during her exits. And I don't mind her answering as honestly as she did. 

[LadyChatts]

I guess I was trying to say more on Andrew's part - if they already made up in Ponderosa, why still say those things during exits? Of course, since his exits came first, no doubt that Ciera would be asked about those eventually during her exits. And I don't mind her answering as honestly as she did. 

 

It could be either playing it up in interviews, or watching it on TV and maybe seeing either what someone is saying about you or viewing their game in a different light.  Maybe you thought they were actually doing more than they were out there.  Andrew and Ciera barely spent any time together before the merge.  It isn't the first time I've seen contestants say they were shocked by something someone said about them in an interview, because they thought they were on good terms. 

[Guest]

I imagine Andrew can't help but throw out names of people he respects less when asked that stupid, "who didn't deserve to be there" question.  Stephen answered it the only tactful way--"We all deserved to be there."

[ProfCrash]

Andrew made comments in the game that pointed to him thinking about people who didn't belong there. He flat out said that Ciera was too willing to sit out competitions and was a waste of a space. He plays a game where you need to be a challenge beast to be respected. He spoke highly of the Alpha types in the game and was very negative towards the strategic, less physical players.

 

He is welcome to his opinion but he I cannot respect him. He freaking refernced high school cliques in his Ponderosa video so I don't think that he was just responding to a question. I fully believe that he does not think Abi or Ciera belonged out there and that he did not respect Stephen in the game. I also fully believe that Andrew was willing to work things out with Stephen because he was a man and not with Ciera or Kass because they were women.

 

I appreciate Ciera's response to the Andrew questions in that interview. They are different people and I know I would prefer to have a beer with Ciera then with Andrew any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

[Special K]

I appreciate Ciera's response to the Andrew questions in that interview. They are different people and I know I would prefer to have a beer with Ciera then with Andrew any day of the week and twice on Sunday.

 

The list of people I would rather have a beer with before Andrew is so long as to be infinite.  But of course, I'm "not in his life" so it's not anything I have to worry about.

 

I appreciate Ciera because I always appreciate players who enjoy playing the game.  I disagree that the other players weren't playing to win all the times she pointed it out.  Patience and timing are pretty important in Survivor.  And if your feet aren't in the fire (yet) you might be smart to lay low.   OTOH, it's not a bad strategy to try to get people to consider other options if they are complacent.  I think Jeremy is the perfect example this season of someone laying low and biding his time and being subtle.  And I think he has a very good chance of winning if he gets to FTC.

 

I didn't really warm to her in BvW, but I wouldn't mind seeing her back.  IMO she and Spencer are vying for the "most improved game" award.

[KimberStormer]

Liked seeing this from Spencer:

 

Holmes: Ciera?
Bledsoe: Amazing player. I think Ciera is the person I’m the most shocked at how good she was. She was the person who my vision of how good she was went up the most.

[KimberStormer]

And Jeremy:

 

Holmes: Ciera?
Collins: I thought I was going to not want to work with Ciera, but I’m a huge fan of hers.

[Miss Scarlet]

Ciera's a good player, but I do think it's funny that she criticizes everyone else for passive gameplay when she tends to be passive for 2/3 of the time she's there. It could be smart on her part, to lay low until it's time to make a big move, but she seems to be unaware that that's what she's doing and how hypocritical she is for then chastising other people for doing the same thing.

[KimberStormer]

What 2/3rds were those?  Literally the first time she went to tribal she organized a blindside, and kept playing hard till being idoled out.

[LadyChatts]

At least Ciera knew how to play the 'we'll go to rocks' card.  Spencer did that all wrong.

[slowpoked]

You know, Ciera is an interesting player for me. Will never be a physical threat, but loud and likable enough to last long and influence the game. It would have been interesting to see how her game would evolve had she not been idol'ed out. They all thought she was the keeper of both Wentworth and Abi, but people eventually realized Wentworth played a strong game on her own. But for Ciera to give that impression to people while on the island, and the one most successful in seemingly taming Abi, is quite impressive.

[KimberStormer]

Realizing that only I care, I just wanted to point out what I meant to point out before, which is that Spencer didn't even watch the episodes where Ciera was really going at it.  So he's not influenced by editing.  We heard a lot about how she was at best making herself a goat, everybody hated her, whatever, because she was playing so hard, talking so much.  But in actual fact Spencer was obviously very impressed.  Jeremy found to his own surprise that he really liked her.  Everyone thought of her as the leader and powerhouse of the witches (and were still surprised, very late in the game, that Kelley was actually a strong player they were underestimating).  She almost succeeded in turning the game upside down and if she had gotten in control of it, I firmly believe she would have crushed it at FTC.

 

I just find it really exciting personally for me to have so many heroes to choose from this season, since I love Jeremy, Kelley, and Ciera so much.  Sorry to bump the thread when nobody else cares.

[Zuleikha]

I love Ciera, too. I think we love all the same players. :)

 

Post-show interviews have been such sweet validation of Ciera's "play to win" speeches. Multiple people have credited those speeches with motivating them to make riskier strategic moves.

[ByaNose]

I liked Ciera in her two visits but I think Kelly overshadowed her this season and would probably get a third try before Ciera. It was interesting to hear Jeremy say that he liked Ciera out there and didn't know until watching the show that Kelley was really running the show and playing hard. It's funny how they are together (after the merge) 24/7 and they don't know half the stuff going on until months later and watching it on tv. It was a great season and I'm having major withdrawal without it and RHAP. I am totally consumed by both for 4 months every time and I'm okay with that. LOL!!!

[kikaha]

Realizing that only I care, I just wanted to point out what I meant to point out before, which is that Spencer didn't even watch the episodes where Ciera was really going at it.  So he's not influenced by editing.  We heard a lot about how she was at best making herself a goat, everybody hated her, whatever, because she was playing so hard, talking so much.  But in actual fact Spencer was obviously very impressed.  Jeremy found to his own surprise that he really liked her.  Everyone thought of her as the leader and powerhouse of the witches (and were still surprised, very late in the game, that Kelley was actually a strong player they were underestimating).  She almost succeeded in turning the game upside down and if she had gotten in control of it, I firmly believe she would have crushed it at FTC.

 

 

I never said she made herself a goat or that everyone hated her.  I said she painted a target on her back when she didn't need to.  No matter how that move at 13 (?) turned out, Ciera would be one of the biggest targets out there, with the vast majority of the game still ahead of her.  She was so wed to the idea of 'big moves' that she made her play way too soon.  Only Kelley's great idol play saved the witches from near-instant annihilation. 

 

Jeremy never made that mistake.  Kelley only did by association, and even then she had the protection of an idol in her pocket.  Ciera does not understand this.  She didn't understand that lying about Savage in front of everyone, including him, would only boomerang on her. 

 

I don't think the others feared her too much.  After all they booted Kass first and targeted Kelley second.  But they knew they couldn't trust her, and as Spencer (I think) said, they could bounce Ciera any time. 

 

Finally, I also don't think her talk of big moves changed a thing.  She may not have seen big moves, because she never went to tribal for so long.  But we the viewers saw big moves the entire game, where people flipped on their alliances, stunned players got blindsided, and the seeming power structure got turned upside down in the course of one day.  Along with HvV, this was probably the best pre-merge season I recall: the action kicked off in the first episode and never really let up. 

[KimberStormer]

kikaha, on 19 Dec 2015 - 04:12 AM, said:

No matter how that move at 13 (?) turned out, Ciera would be one of the biggest targets out there, with the vast majority of the game still ahead of her.

. . .

I don't think the others feared her too much.  After all they booted Kass first and targeted Kelley second.

 

I keep clicking wrong and losing my post

 

Anyway doesn't this seem like a contradiction to you?  She made herself a huge target, but she wasn't targeted?

 

I think it's very very very silly to say "Jeremy never made that mistake" as though Ciera could play Jeremy's game.  You are who you are.  Your Survivor game has to be based on that.  Little, young Ciera is just never going to have the authority that can play like Jeremy or Kim or Tom or any other "default" top dog and it's disingenuous to pretend she can.  You have to play your game based on who you are and who you're with.  People who aren't traditional leader types have to find another way to play, and many have more-or-less successfully done so: Sandra, Cirie, Lisa, Stephen Fishbach himself, etc.  Stephen can't be JT.  He has to play Stephen's game.  I think some people, like Dawn or Russell, just because of who they are, have figured out how to play their own games in the most successful way they can and yet they could never win that way, it's like a fundamental incompatibility between them and the game.  Anyway, the point is, Jeremy never "made that mistake" because Jeremy never had to.  And there's no possible way in my mind you can say Jeremy's idol play on Stephen wasn't a similar "big move" mistake.  Jeremy overcame it, you say?  So did Ciera.  She was not distrusted, she was the person to whom people went to make moves.  (Personally I think "trust" is a very overrated thing in Survivor both in the game and in discussion of the game..."I can trust Jeremy, but not the women" is a monumentally stupid reason for Tasha to take Jeremy and not the women to the end.  It's one hundred percent true that she could trust Jeremy, but so what?)

 

ByaNose in Kelley's thread compares Kelley to Malcolm, which I think is a very good comparison.  It got me thinking about her in this season vs Malcolm in Caramoan.  She and he both got on the wrong side of the numbers, outside the major alliance, at the merge, and had to save their bacon with idols.  Malcolm's game ended there--no idol, no Malcolm.  Kelley was able to continue operating.  Why?  It's not because of Kelley, it's because of Ciera.  It was Ciera who was universally seen as the mover and shaker of the witches, so when people (Stephen, Spencer) belatedly saw their use and value, it was to Ciera that they came.  Kelley, because she's awesome, was right there in it and a part of it, and continued the good work when Ciera was gone.  But she couldn't do it alone.  Malcolm had two of the doofiest doofs to ever doof on Survivor in Reynold and Eddie, Kelley had Ciera (and Abi, who is no slouch herself in her own way...Stephen and Ciera, at least, have both said that even when the witches were on the bottom, many people on both sides thought they had a working relationship with Abi, even Jeremy.)  So Malcolm was unable to flip the game, and it took Jeremy making a crazy, ultimately pointless (insofar as saving Stephen was the goal) "big move" to get Ciera out.  (And again, Jeremy himself has said that he never thought he would want to work with Ciera, but when he did for the Wigelsworth booth he was very impressed with her.  If he "didn't fear her" then his Idol move was completely pointless, because getting rid of Ciera is the only thing it did.)

Edited December 21, 2015 by KimberStormer

[kikaha]

Kimber, Ciera DID paint a big target on her back.  She also painted targets on Kass and Kelley.  The rest of the tribe labeled them 'witches.'  The group thought the other two  were more annoying (Kass) or more dangerous (Kelley), and targeted them first.  But Ciera was firmly in their sights as well.  They were going to bounce her, too, sooner rather than later.  Which is exactly what happened.  10000% due to her own actions. 

 

Of course you have to be yourself.  The point is that 'being herself' led Ciera to some costly mistakes.  She wants to make big moves.  But for two seasons she has shown she doesn't time them correctly.  She blurted out to the entire tribe her lie about Savage.  I think she lacks the subtlety needed to win this game.  I also doubt she is a good enough leader to take the helm and navigate her way to the end.  So far she has failed badly at that. 

 

Lots of differences between Kelley and Malcolm IMO.  Malcolm played in a half-newbie season, while Kelley played in an all-star season.  No surprise that Kelley had stronger players to hook up with.  Maybe more important, while Malcolm was the shield in the amigos, before that he had put himself in great position to take over the season.  Corinne's colossal screwup with Dawn blew that.  That was maybe the key turning point of the season.  If Corinne could simply have kept her mouth shut, I think Malcolm was the odds-on favorite to win Caramoan. 

 

A huge, huge difference between your view of this season and mine: the idea that Ciera did 'good work.'  I think her poor timing and big mouth screwed herself and her entire alliance. 

 

Kelley was a good enough player to pick up the pieces, which is a testament to her great play this season.  I'm a big Kelley Wentworth fan.  Like Boston Rob and Parvati, she's outstanding at every facet of the game, though of course she has her own personality. 

 

I also think Ciera has potential.  But as it stands her flaws outweigh her strengths, by a pretty large margin. 

[Guest]

I think she lacks the subtlety needed to win this game.

 

I'm not sure Ciera could play a subtle game and be recognized for it.  It could get her to FTC but not the win, in most cases.  If it did get her there the odds are she'd be labeled a coattail rider or a goat.  Which I think was her whole point with her rants to the others about playing to win.  

[kikaha]

Winston, the key is knowing when to be subtle and when not to.  Kelley picked her moments brilliantly.  Jeremy did a great job there, too.  Kimmi almost did -- she came up with two excellent ideas near the end, either one of which had the potential to win the game for her. 

 

Ciera did not.  That's one reason she lost IMO. 

[Guest]

But all those people except Jeremy made gambles and lost, just like Ciera.  Jeremy won on the subtle card, I think, but if he hadn't been Jeremy, found two idols and won the final immunity, he probably wouldn't have won, either.  

[KimberStormer]

A huge, huge difference between your view of this season and mine: the idea that Ciera did 'good work.'  I think her poor timing and big mouth screwed herself and her entire alliance. 

 

[kikaha]

Kimber, Stephen also had an obsession with Joe, that probably got him booted.  I mean I'm interested to hear his view, but I don't take him as the ultimate authority. 

[KimberStormer]

Just in this thread I've quoted Spencer and Jeremy too.  I've held off on quoting other witches on the assumption that their opinions will be dismissed out of hand.  I have not heard anyone with a bad thing to say about Ciera that I can remember except of course for Savage, who is off in his own Never-Never Land.  Everyone else has huge respect for her that I've seen.  Anyway, I am off to work, so can't go into more detail for now.

[kikaha]

But all those people except Jeremy made gambles and lost, just like Ciera.  Jeremy won on the subtle card, I think, but if he hadn't been Jeremy, found two idols and won the final immunity, he probably wouldn't have won, either.  

I wouldn't say they lost just like Ciera did.  Kelley finished fourth, and was one challenge error away from winning the entire season.  Kimmi came in sixth, after the most bizarre tribal ever where she was never targeted through two votes.  She also came up with two innovative ideas near the end, that gave her a realistic shot at winning as well. 

[Nashville]

 

So she would have gotten at least ONE vote....  ;>

[phlebas]

What's this?  Shane doesn't understand what's going on?  This is amazing!  Let me run out to the back yard and see if I can find my Blackberry...

 

Ciera was great.  She made a mistake jumping in on Kass' fight with Tasha to pick one with Savage, but otherwise I was impressed.  She and Kelley are both better off on this show without their parents around. Makes me want to get Katie Collins back for one more.

Edited December 22, 2015 by phlebas

[slowpoked]

I have no doubt Ciera has a great social game - most of the other alliance have acknowledged that, and they went to her first when they wanted to use the witches for blindsides. She's a good example of making the most of her skills - she knows she won't ever be a physical threat so she made up for it some other way. For some reason, I lean towards players who have better social skills than just the plain challenge beasts. I think there's more finesse needed and involved in properly interacting with your fellow tribe mates than winning ICs.

 

I think what she has learned, or what she needs to learn in case she plays again, is picking her battles. I really didn't understand why she decided to jump in the fray regarding Savage. She made people around her uncomfortable and that's what turned potential allies Keith and Joe away from her, and made her an unnecessary target at that stage, considering there are quite a number of people who seemed willing to work with her. It's a shame, I would have loved to have seen more of her game, her and Fishbach scheming together. Learn when to play top dog and learn when to lay low. 

Edited December 22, 2015 by slowpoked

[kikaha]

So she would have gotten at least ONE vote....  ;>

Maybe... but I wonder if that's true if Jeremy is in the finals as well? 

[slowpoked]

Maybe... but I wonder if that's true if Jeremy is in the finals as well? 

I think Stephen would always be a Jeremy vote. Even with Wentworth in F3, he said he would have voted for Jeremy. I think his point was, Ciera is not a goat as Shane was suggesting, and he wouldn't have any problems voting for her because he thought she played well enough.

 

At least Ciera would not have laid a goose egg had she went that far. She may not have won, but it wouldn't have been an abomination of a 10-0-0 vote. I think that's what Stephen is trying imply as well. Heck, even Kimmi might not have laid a goose egg, even against Jeremy. There may be one or two, who might have thrown votes her way because they know she desperately needs the money.

Edited December 22, 2015 by slowpoked

[KimberStormer]

Maybe... but I wonder if that's true if Jeremy is in the finals as well? 

 

 

Of course not, but that would only be relevant if Ciera got to the end with Jeremy, which I can't see happening.  Anyway, obviously it would be so different if she made it to the end (for one thing, Jeremy wouldn't have saved Stephen) that it's impossible to say who would even be there voting.  But as Ciera was never planning to go to the end with Jeremy, it's utterly irrelevant whether she could beat him.

 

I've heard this song-and-dance about Parvati in Heroes Vs Villains, too..."well she couldn't have beaten the majority of the people there at Final Tribal so that makes her a goat" is what one person said to me once.  Even though with the final 3 she had planned and would have definitely gotten if not for Russell being a moron--Parv, Russell, Danielle--she wins it in a casual stroll.  It's an incoherent argument.  It's not like you have to get more votes than the entire cast, only the people you are there with.