S01.E04: Not Fade Away

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

^ Its both humorous and sad that viewer interpretation and tactical thinking makes way more sense that what is shown on screen.

 

Nice take, by the way, Nashville.  Much easier to swallow than anything I've seen on FTWD (or not seen, IE, skipping ahead a week [in Show's time]!)

[Dobian]

In fact, I don't think it could have been done - or WOULD have been done, if (as we had been previously seeing) there were only a few odd cases of zombieism popping up here and there. Which leads me to consider an alternate possibility: what if our ASS* is not actually in a Safe Zone, but instead is in a quarantine area? This would explain...

 

I think there is something to that.  The military is obviously keeping people in the dark, and the person flashing them Morse code or whatever might be trying to warn them.  The problem I have - and again this points out the inconsistencies in the writing - is that even without phones, these people still have intermittent power, so what about tv and internet?  Okay, the military was smart and cut the cable lines.  Doesn't somebody have a satellite dish?  And what about a good old fashioned radio?  This show goes out of its way to cut off the main characters from any line of communication, or just have them ignore it altogether.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I think there is something to that.  The military is obviously keeping people in the dark, and the person flashing them Morse code or whatever might be trying to warn them.  The problem I have - and again this points out the inconsistencies in the writing - is that even without phones, these people still have intermittent power, so what about tv and internet?  Okay, the military was smart and cut the cable lines.  Doesn't somebody have a satellite dish?  And what about a good old fashioned radio?  This show goes out of its way to cut off the main characters from any line of communication, or just have them ignore it altogether.

 

Or satellite radio ?  Or Ham radio ?

[Peanut]

Bit of a rant, but I hate the concept of "story sync."  Even with a great show I'm skeptical of the whole concept, but with this...why the hell should I have to go seek out what I'd need to know to get a full story? 

 

Still, I'm not super into going online for extra content to sort it all out.  

This is also my problem with the Talking Dead. So much stuff gets explained on there that should be explained in the show itself.  But it isn't.  

 

I asked earlier, but since it's been brought up again, would Ham radios still work?  I have no idea.  I know someone with a ham radio, but I don't see them often enough to pester them with this question.

[Raven1707]

She was shown in an earlier episode with a book, "Nursing for Dummies" maybe? I believe she was in nursing school before the outbreak, so she probably had enough skills to help people out to some degree. But when the doc showed on the scene she knew she wasn't a real nurse yet. 

 

I think it was "Math for Nurses," but yeah, I agree she was probably a nursing student.

 

She "salvaged" a morphine drip?  Uh huh.  Ah well, it's times like this that I wish I wasn't in the medical profession so I wouldn't be scrutinizing every little detail of everything that was wrong in that whole medical scenario.

 

I'm thinking she salvaged just the morphine from a neighbor, and that Hector had already been hooked up to the intravenous equipment/infusion pump when this all started. This is supposition, of course, but I can imagine a scenario where Hector was being treated at home by a visiting nurse. I was more concerned that whatever was in the IV bag looked a bit...murky.

This is also my problem with the Talking Dead. So much stuff gets explained on there that should be explained in the show itself.  But it isn't.  

 

I asked earlier, but since it's been brought up again, would Ham radios still work?  I have no idea.  I know someone with a ham radio, but I don't see them often enough to pester them with this question.

 

As far as I know, ham radios are battery-powered.

[Nashville]

I think there is something to that.  The military is obviously keeping people in the dark, and the person flashing them Morse code or whatever might be trying to warn them.  The problem I have - and again this points out the inconsistencies in the writing - is that even without phones, these people still have intermittent power, so what about tv and internet?  Okay, the military was smart and cut the cable lines.  Doesn't somebody have a satellite dish?  And what about a good old fashioned radio?  This show goes out of its way to cut off the main characters from any line of communication, or just have them ignore it altogether.

  

Or satellite radio ?  Or Ham radio ?

Jamming/blocking commercial radio broadcasts isn't difficult at all; heck, if the folks at Nissan Stadium can do it whenever the Titans are playing, I doubt the military would have too much trouble with it. :)

Satellite radio and satphone are a little more problematic, but the use of both require unobstructed line-of-sight path to a satellite. If (a) the QA was chosen because of its geographic location (sitting in a "bowl", perhaps, with LOS to a single satellite) and (b) its sole satellite access was disabled, it could be doable - particularly if nobody else lives in the created dead zone.

Ham radios could be a real problem- but (a) I wouldn't automatically assume it's an insurmountable problem, and (b) when was the last time you saw someone with a ham radio? :)

[oakville]

Considering most disaster contingency planning models for L.A. estimate the time required for total evacuation of the City and immediately-surrounding areas at something in the neighborhood of two weeks from initiation of evacuation, I would tend to agree.

In fact, I don't think it could have been done - or WOULD have been done, if (as we had been previously seeing) there were only a few odd cases of zombieism popping up here and there. Which leads me to consider an alternate possibility: what if our ASS* is not actually in a Safe Zone, but instead is in a quarantine area? This would explain:

• Clearing a population-free swath around the quarantine area - in effect, creating a no-man's-land around the QA. Heck - if you told the locals you were quarantining a bunch of folks to see if any might turn crazy cannibal, many would probably bug out of their own volition.
• The street slaughters could be prospective QA internees who resisted relocation, or killed as suspected escapees from the QA.
• The communications cut-off. If you're telling the QA internees they're in a Safe Zone to keep them pacified and acquiescent, you don't want real-world info spoiling the shit sandwich you're feeding them.
• The fences - better suited for keeping walkers out, or keeping normal humans in?

And so forth. So while ASS sits and waits for a rescue which will never come, the rest of the world goes along its merry way.

...that is, until the number of brain-biters reaches a critical mass relative to the surrounding population, and isolated hot spots of occurrence grow to become a full-fledged infection wildfire.

Waddaya think? :)

* ASS = After School Special - my nominated term for FTWD's version of CDB. :)

 

 

That's a good idea, but I doubt the writers are that smart. I agree that it makes no sense that LA would be empty after 9 days. What's strange is that the army is frequently seen wearing masks which makes sense given that it is probably an airborne virus but the residents are walking around without masks except if they are beginning to have a fever.

[Beast Saver]

It is a bit of an effort to go look for extra TWD and FTWD stuff, but I am such a zombiephile, I'm willing to do it. Even though there are probably enough holes to drive a Mack truck through, I'm just so glad that I can watch Zombies! For a while, all you could find were vampires and werewolves, which don't interest me at all. 

 

Something I found recently were three webisodes that fit in with TWD (Torn Apart, Cold Storage, and The Oath). You can find them on Youtube.

[Beast Saver]

Edited to delete link. This belongs on another thread,

Edited September 24, 2015 by Beast Saver

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

That's my biggest gripe of all.  I don't care how much military might and QAs, SZs and "santized" DZ areas there supposedly is in the greater and surrounding LA areas - there are still going to be zombies.  There's just too many people in that geographical region to make it unbelievable that there isn't.  I don't care how many times a day the military does 'sweeps' and 'sanitizes' areas, there are just too many people to either keep in camps, QAs, or hidden away in locked down locations. 

 

Another large gripe is I don't think the military is really thinking too straight when a safe zone of people in the thousands is being 'protected' and held under marshal law by a noticeably small military unit that has just a LT in charge.  When shit starts hitting the fan, there ain't one grunt of a soldier there that will really listen to Moyers' orders, only being a LT.  Also, if they decide they want to take extra liberties with people and things that are in their 'care', they won't be too scared with just a golfing LT to answer to.

[phoenix780]

I keep wondering about radios too, because it's LA and we're all supposed to have stuff like that in case of earthquake.  I can see that most probably wouldn't, though.  

 

The main reason it stands out to me is because I felt like they made a point of incorporating technology early on with the daughter and her headphones and it doesn't feel real that someone that attached to tech wouldn't be trying to find something else.  At least turn on the car, which has a radio in it, and see if you pick anything up.

[Bryce Lynch]

I find it very odd that the main characters and the others in the safe zone seem to have so little desire for information about what is going on outside the gates.

I would think they would be clamoring for information about what is causing tne outbreak, how widespread it is and especially about family and friends from LA and around the world.

When disasters happen the first thing everyone does is to find out if friends and loved ones who might be affected are OK. If they cannot find out, many, if not most will worry obsessively until they do.

I see almost none of this on the show.

[Anela]

What, exactly? Rick is in another state.

That doesn't mean that the military in LA were spared. I was thinking they'd be overrun in the finale.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

That doesn't mean that the military in LA were spared. I was thinking they'd be overrun in the finale.

 

Taking response to this over to the 'FTWD Anticipation and Speculation' thread...

[peach]

Another large gripe is I don't think the military is really thinking too straight when a safe zone of people in the thousands is being 'protected' and held under marshal law by a noticeably small military unit that has just a LT in charge.  When shit starts hitting the fan, there ain't one grunt of a soldier there that will really listen to Moyers' orders, only being a LT.  Also, if they decide they want to take extra liberties with people and things that are in their 'care', they won't be too scared with just a golfing LT to answer to.

Also, they're in their own country.  I'd think plenty of them would be more interested in getting home or finding their own families then dealing with this.

[Irishmaple]

The existence of a safe zone in the Clark neighbourhood bothers me. If the military are preparing to reclaim the city, why burden them with civilians? Why are the military providing food and wasting their time briefing people who will play no part in the effort to take back the city? Why aren't civilian organizations like FEMA or the Red Cross involved? That suggests order has broken down in a major way and there are no (or too few) functioning NGOs or government disaster teams. These civilians are under Moyer's feet, distracting him with complaints and crises. When LA was evacuated, why keep so many civilians in a military staging area? It would make sense to keep a protected area as a way station to hold refugees for a short time before sending them on, but that's not the story Chris told. He said LA was basically emptied except for his area. Why didn't Moyer ship them out so he could get on with his job?

[Dobian]

Like was said above, with the full force of the American military it took a whole lot longer than nine days to secure Baghdad.  L.A. is a far more vast and complex metropolitan area.  Add to that the fact that this is happening all over the country, so the number of domestic forces would be completely spread thin.  You would have a few thousand soldiers trying to contain an area of millions.  There's no way they could completely cut off communication from these so-called safe zones.  What's maddening is that no one is even trying to find out what's going on outside.  Like was mentioned, being so shorthanded the military would have been in the key hot spots, not out in the burbs.  The whole plot feels rushed.  It's like they are trying to get from the fall of civilization to zombieland as quickly as possible.  But if they do that, then FTWD just becomes TWD Redux.  They really needed to slow it down and show the separate phases of collapse.  I wanted to see those news reports on the tv as reporters tried to convey what was happening.  I wanted to see people watching viral videos and texting their friends and family about what was going on.  I wanted to see scenes of jammed freeways as people tried to flee the L.A. basin.  They did a better job of showing people reacting in Sharknado.

[mightysparrow]

Or satellite radio ?  Or Ham radio ?

 

Whatever happened to good old word of mouth?  Nobody's spoken to a guy who knows a guy?  Like so many people have mentioned, human beings are curious.  And with all the conspiracy theorists out there, I can't believe that the government, military or even zombies could shut down ALL communication.  I don't believe for a second that CNN wouldn't be reporting about people coming back from the dead to eat other people no matter WHAT the government wanted them to do.  These people just don't seem to care what's going on in world around them.  It was nice to see Madison show a tiny spark of initiative but I would think that she would have smelled all those dead bodies lying out in the California sun long before she saw them.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Whatever happened to good old word of mouth?  Nobody's spoken to a guy who knows a guy?  Like so many people have mentioned, human beings are curious.  And with all the conspiracy theorists out there, I can't believe that the government, military or even zombies could shut down ALL communication.  I don't believe for a second that CNN wouldn't be reporting about people coming back from the dead to eat other people no matter WHAT the government wanted them to do.

 

Look at all the media coverage for the victims of the Ebola virus inside the U.S. -- and that was for a handful of infected people.

[rab01]

Look at all the media coverage for the victims of the Ebola virus inside the U.S. -- and that was for a handful of infected people.

I think they're past that point now; one of the "benefits" of the 9 day time jump.

 

That said, the most natural form of communication would be for the inmates of the SZ to ask the guards what's happening to their (the soldiers') families. It would serve the show by humanizing some of the faceless soldiers while giving us exposition by the bucket load all for the cost of zero dollars. C'mon show, meet us halfway.  *sigh*

[GreyBunny]

I can imagine a scenario where Hector was being treated at home by a visiting nurse. I was more concerned that whatever was in the IV bag looked a bit...murky.

 

It was food delivered by a PEG tube (tube inserted directly into the stomach).  You pour the liquid food (something like Ensure) into a bag and it infuses slowly over a set period of time, 8 hours, 12 hours, however long.  It's for people who have trouble swallowing and can't eat by mouth anymore. 

 

The lack of curiosity is maddening.  When the low-flying aircraft was obviously in distress they barely even glanced at it.  They should have been rubbernecking with their mouths hanging open and asking each other out loud what was wrong with it and why, and trying to watch it wobble along as long as they could until it crashed (and it looked like it was going to crash nearby.  No "boom"?).  That would have been a normal reaction.  But these people are incurious and stupid, I guess.

 

I like Nashville's idea that this could be a quarantine zone and they're being contained while the real survivors are out gallivanting around in the real world, but I agree, the show isn't that smart.

Edited September 24, 2015 by GreyBunny

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

With that explanation of "its been 9 days since the military rolled in" by Chris as he documented on his video camera, FTWD just threw its whole premise out the effing window. 

 

I came into this thinking the whole idea was setting up and chronicling the very beginning of the ZA that is the WD universe. So after the first couple of episodes, all of a sudden we're a week and a half into it, with no real plausible explanation of how we got there.  The military rolling into their 'burbs should have been the S1 ending 'cliffhanger', instead we'll have been thrown in (with no introduction or warning) and [most likely] moving past it to end this season.  Fan-frakking-tastic job of '(sorta) telling and only barely showing', FTWD people - the whole way, too, not just this episode.

 

And has been stated many times - to which I can only wholeheartedly agree - not nearly enough viewpoints is hurting this show so much.

Edited September 24, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[FierceCritter]

Decided to go unlurky finally and chime in a bit here with some specifics and some generalities.

This could have been observed by someone else. But I think one of the aims the PTB are going for here is to present a "this is what problems were before the ZA" set-up. And what follows would be showing how the characters react when their world is turned upside-down. Drug addict's most important thing is getting drugs. How will he be when the most important thing is getting food? Travis and Liza fight about when exactly he is supposed to have custody of the kid. How will they get along when they have to work together to protect the kid? Etc.

Note on Kim Dickens - the only thing I have seen her on is Deadwood. I liked her character on DW. But when I saw she was going to be a lead on FTWD, the first thing I thought was, "But her face doesn't really do much beyond 'impassive.'" I'm glad to see I'm not the only person noticing and bemoaning this.

On Nick - at first I thought his role was going to be that of the cute guy with problems (RE: teenage girl viewer bait) who overcomes them. Now with what he did this episode, I get more of a feel of "this is the character that is going to start out as reprehensible, but ends up redeemed." Kind of how Carol on TWD did what she did when the illness started at the jail, but then came to everyone's rescue later. Or how Merle was major jerkoff #1 at the beginning and beyond, but then charged in to help during the governor situation. Sort of the reverse of Shane, who started off a hero and ended up a liability.

I have had the feeling since early on that Madison has dropped very subtle clues that she fought her own addiction at some time. I do not memorize lines the way many people do, but particularly when going after ways to help Nick rather than just give up on him, she's said things that struck me as "I've been there, I can't just give up because maybe he can recover like I did." So if that was booze in the coffee cup, it won't surprise me to see her back on a downward spiral. Maybe it'll even be part of Nick's redemption in that he eventually gets clean and helps her.

I got the feeling that Nick and Grizelda were taken away as dangers for possibly being dead and then turning. We know from Jennerat the CDC that the gov't knew everyone was infected. Maybe they tried from the start to head off being overrun with zombies by "culling the herd" before they could become dangers.

One thing I frequently observed about TWD was, particularly as evidenced by the number of times they came across military operations that had completely been destroyed (full bases overrun, helicopters smashed all over the place, etc), that things escalated remarkably fast. How long was Rick supposed to have been in that coma? If we discount specific things like Jenner's dictation about when the outbreak started and when it went global, chalking things like that up to the creator's "oops" in maintaining continuity, and instead take Kirkman's statement (from this webpage http://scifi.stackexchange.com/questions/93991/how-long-was-rick-in-the-hospital) that he was out for 3-4 weeks as our "god timeline," that's pretty darned fast to go from police finding people they've shot suddenly coming back to life without explanation to even the military being KO'd.

Which brings me to what people here have said about how a city of millions can be cleared out so quickly, etc. Barring anything from the comics (which I have not read and avoid discussion of pretty successfully), has it ever been stated where it actually started in the U.S.? Is it possible that it is going to be said that it started in L.A., and therefore, the gov't was able to focus the entirety of their actions there? This also would allow for Jenner's timeline to work along with Rick's coma timeline, if it started in L.A. and took a while for it to spread across the country to Georgia (one would have to suspend disbelief that word of what was going down not reaching King County by the time Rick was shot). But I share the observation of someone else here that I know nothing of cities like L.A. and what it would take to evacuate or contain that number of people.

An imagined "possible" about the spread of the infection (which would also explain an exceptionally sudden and quick escalation): Perhaps for some diabolical or poorly thought out reason, these "health checks" are being done to actually introduce the infection to a wide number of people quickly. Either diabolical in that this is some unexplained gov't plot to thin the population with unexpected consequences (yay they die, oops - they reanimate) or poor planning in that they think they're introducing an immunization that turns out not to work correctly, but infect instead.

I admit one reason I generally only lurk on PTV forums and not take part is because I enjoy these shows without giving a lot of thought to the "motivations" of characters who aren't actual sentient beings - their only real motivation is what the writer chooses to make them do or say. But in this case, I am more able to compare the two shows, and therefore think "what are they trying to do with this show to make it work with the original show."

Like another poster, I had hoped to watch this and see wham, bam - ZA hits, how do people react to it and how are they going to show the decline of civilization that leads up to what the world is when Rick wakes up? I read a lot of PA fiction and my favorite isn't what the world is like long after the apocalypse, but what happens when it first strikes. How do people adapt? What is done to try to make things better? What works, what fails? For this reason, I was looking forward to this show. It is way more soap-opery than I would have liked. I, too, dislike just about every character. It is moving slower than I am satisfied with. There's too much focus on the people and not what's going on around them. This episode gave me some hope. Most particularly with the flashing light and Madison's visit to the DZ. That's what I hope we start to see more of, quickly. Characters reacting to what's going on out there, not to each other.

And with that, I'll quit adding to this epic novella of a catch-up post, and thank whomever took the time to actually read any of it. :D

[KirkB]

We know how the world ends. We know it's very likely that anywhere from 90-100% of the people we see on FTWD will end up either food or dead and eating. I thought the premise of the show was going to be seeing how all of it fell apart and how the people still living reacted to the apocalypse. Instead we get glimpses of that, through the eyes of (IMO) mostly uninteresting people, and in fact skip a week for no explainable reason. Skipping six months or more between seasons of the mother show makes sense to explain Carl's aging for example, but jumping nine days in the third (?) episode of FTWD is basically their shorthand way of saying "nothing interesting happened for over a week during the apocalypse", right?

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Decided to go unlurky finally and chime in a bit here with some specifics and some generalities.

. . . . . . . . .

And with that, I'll quit adding to this epic novella of a catch-up post, and thank whomever took the time to actually read any of it. :D

 

Great post.  Well thought-out and an excellent analysis, to date, of the show and perceived universe we are experiencing with it.

 

And welcome to the 'active' portion of the boards, FierceCritter. 

Edited September 24, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[FierceCritter]

That's what it looked like, but I'm not from there either.  Because I'm home today with sick kids and bored, I've been trying to figure out the line about the neighborhood being one of 12 safe areas south of the San Gabriels and how big an area we're talking about in relation to the LA area as a whole.  Yes, I'm that bored.

LOL. Don't feel bad. I probably spent half a day trying to pinpoint the buildings used as interiors in the movie "Vanishing on 7th Street" based on which Detroit buildings they looked out on.

Great post.  Well thought-out and an excellent analysis, to date, of the show and perceived universe we are experiencing with it.

 

And welcome to the 'active' portion of the boards, FierceCritter. 

Thank you. :)

[FierceCritter]

I wanted to see the fall of society. Not "let's fast-forward 9 days to watch family drama inside a locked in neighborhood. Oh and.. the army killed all the zombies in LA while we fast-forwarded. hurray!"  I wanted to SEE all that happen, dammit!  I wanted to see the population of zombies increase. I wanted to see the mass chaos. I don't want to see someone going for a fucking morning jog in the middle of an apocalypse. Gah!

This.

[FierceCritter]

RE: Travis jogging during a crisis

I know a couple people who are runners who are going through major life crises right now. Both of them put headphones with angry music on and "run off the anger." One of them I even worry about, because she'll do it at 3:00 at night.

Some of us do dishes to think. Some of us puzzles. Some listen to instrumental music. And some of us box to work of pent-up frustration, or paint, or drive too fast.

[Bongo Fury]

Fierce Critter, good post. Don't feel shy about posting more, there are a ton of people who post here and every single one of them is wrong, except me.

;-)

So post away.

 

I watched DGB recently. When Rick takes Morgan and Duane to the police station to get a shower, Morgan states that the gas has been off for 30 days. When Shane first brings the flowers to Rick in the hospital he makes no mention of strange shit happening, so maybe that was a minimum of 35 days pre-outbreak. Now, given how Rick reacts when he first meets Morgan and how he acts when they go for the hot showers, some time has passed to allow him to recover. Assume a weeks recovery. So yeah, Rick was alone in the hospital about 4 weeks, with no fluids, so he should be dead.

 

I don't think LA is ground zero of the outbreak. In E3 we see the low flying plane rocking its wings back and forth. Clearly there are walkers inside that they are dealing with. So at that point at least walkers exist outside of LA.

[FierceCritter]

 

As far as to where the hoards are - someone above mentioned the sewer system. I don't think the walker's have that kind of intelligence or instincts - right now - they just want to eat..

Hm. This brings me back to the discussed subject of a possible "the worst is yet to come." As in, we've been denied what a lot of us seemed to expect from the series - visuals of the world going to hell at the beginning.

Perhaps the gov't didn't understand the full spectrum of what they were dealing with at first. And dumped infected bodies "somewhere." By the truckload. And perhaps the "worst yet to come" that finally gives us the spectacle of seeing the world suddenly engulfed in a ZA is the result of those dumped bodies attacking en masse finally.

Which would also explain my earlier musing about how in TWD, we see evidence that the military was seemingly overwhelmed extremely suddenly and catastrophically. 

[FierceCritter]

Which leads me to consider an alternate possibility: what if our ASS* is not actually in a Safe Zone, but instead is in a quarantine area?

*SNIP*

Waddaya think? :)

I think it's damned intriguing. Now I'll be real curious to see if your supposition pans out. <-- golf applause

[Anela]

RE: Travis jogging during a crisis

I know a couple people who are runners who are going through major life crises right now. Both of them put headphones with angry music on and "run off the anger." One of them I even worry about, because she'll do it at 3:00 at night.

Some of us do dishes to think. Some of us puzzles. Some listen to instrumental music. And some of us box to work of pent-up frustration, or paint, or drive too fast.

Yep. I walk it off - walk and walk until I feel like collapsing. 

 

I'm also with the people who expected to see more falling apart - not just sticking with the one or two families, from a supposed safe zone. 

[FierceCritter]

1) Fierce Critter, good post. Don't feel shy about posting more, there are a ton of people who post here and every single one of them is wrong, except me.

;-)

So post away.

 

2) I don't think LA is ground zero of the outbreak. In E3 we see the low flying plane rocking its wings back and forth. Clearly there are walkers inside that they are dealing with. So at that point at least walkers exist outside of LA.

1) Thank you, and LOL

2) Could be a flight that departed an LA or nearby airport that developed walker problems and turned back. But I'm not one to nitpick fiction with any real conviction, so yeah, you could be right.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Its easy to pick something they aren't doing, and imagine it would be way better, but I would have loved it if they had done something like this;  having a bunch different groups/viewpoints, and the 'story' gets told by different groups' storylines crossing over or overlapping with other groups. 

 

For instance; 'Group A' are law enforcement or military who are deployed to crowd patrol the riot or confront zombies.  'Group B' is a reporter/cameraman who are covering the news, and head to Group A's location.  But, on the way, they get involved in 'Group C's problem, which is some government organization that is stranded and needs help.  'Group D' is a family (C/M/S, if you want) that witnesses both the 'GroupA'-rioting/zombies/'GroupB'&'GroupC's mess on their way to running for the desert.  Etc, and so on.

 

Widely spread out storylines, from different viewpoints, that all bisect/intersect or touch each other at random points and each moment adds to overall picture of what is shown on screen.  And the groups don't even have to have direct interaction or even really know about each other - unless its like I described above, 'GroupB' helping out 'GroupC' - just use all the different sub-plots to tell the overall massive story of the world falling to pieces at the start of a ZA.

Edited September 25, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[Starchild]

I don't agree that the 9-day skip was saying "nothing interesting happened." I think it says "of course lots of really interesting stuff happened but we don't know how to tell that story from the corner we've painted ourselves into, so, never mind."

 

I agree with others that limiting the viewpoints to these half-dozen or so people is really constraining the story we were hoping to see.

 

What with Kirkman's habit of milking a situation, I wouldn't be surprised if the real story of the fall of civilization, which would have to include the perspectives of law, government, and the medical community to be meaningful, will be told in yet another new series. Perhaps we'll see Jenner and the CDC back for that one, even get to hear from France and get some insights about how the whole world is falling apart.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I don't agree that the 9-day skip was saying "nothing interesting happened." I think it says "of course lots of really interesting stuff happened but we don't know how to tell that story from the corner we've painted ourselves into, so, never mind."

 

I agree with others that limiting the viewpoints to these half-dozen or so people is really constraining the story we were hoping to see.

 

What with Kirkman's habit of milking a situation, I wouldn't be surprised if the real story of the fall of civilization, which would have to include the perspectives of law, government, and the medical community to be meaningful, will be told in yet another new series. Perhaps we'll see Jenner and the CDC back for that one, even get to hear from France and get some insights about how the whole world is falling apart.

 

Considering how they've misfired (so far) with FTWD, I can honestly hope they just stop here.  Hopefully RK and TWD universe TPTB forget about (more) spinoffs, and just focus everything on TWD and just make it the best as possible and keep the core demographic.

[Bongo Fury]

What with Kirkman's habit of milking a situation, I wouldn't be surprised if the real story of the fall of civilization, which would have to include the perspectives of law, government, and the medical community to be meaningful, will be told in yet another new series. 

 

To be perfectly honest, while a lot of us would like to see the whole fall of society story play out, I don't think Kirkman has any interest in telling that story. And as someone who has read his comics, I don't think he has the writing chops to pull it off effectively in any case. Judging from the comics, where he has complete creative control, the stories he is interested in telling are post-pubescent rape fantasies, and mutilation stories. Thankfully the whole Governor storyline was toned WAY down by AMC and we didn't get any of that bullshit. But that is the kind of writer/person Kirkman is, he's not some skilled writer capable of weaving an interesting story. He's got a great premise for his stories, but his execution is juvenile and hackneyed.

[Nashville]

I don't get it.  The sugardaddies in Production saw something in this mess good enough to make them buy a second season without so much as a pilot sweep of the ratings, and they're rarely THAT stupid with their money - sometimes, but not often. 

 

There must be something we haven't seen yet to pull some sense of coherence into this mess, or - as I said when news of them buying a second season before the first season ever hit public screens - somebody is gonna be SOOOO fired.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

I don't get it.  The sugardaddies in Production saw something in this mess good enough to make them buy a second season without so much as a pilot sweep of the ratings, and they're rarely THAT stupid with their money - sometimes, but not often. 

 

There must be something we haven't seen yet to pull some sense of coherence into this mess, or - as I said when news of them buying a second season before the first season ever hit public screens - somebody is gonna be SOOOO fired.

 

All this, or someone was just banking that since Walking Dead was in the title, it'll get watched enough to warrant a 2nd season no matter what, cause the parent show TWD is such a ratings cash cow.

[nobody30]

Ok, after watching this episode, and almost falling asleep, I really have to ask: what's the point of this spin-off again?

 

I mean what's the difference to TWD again? If society has almost fallen apart completely in episode 4, and we learn exactly nothing about the outbreak itself, it's just TDW 2.0, small group/ family drama in an apocalyptic world, only with stupid characters nobody cares about.

 

Hell, they don't even mention how this "thing" spreads, just through bites or other ways? I mean this is basically the number 1 topic everybody would care and talk about in reality.

 

And how stupid can characters and plot get? The military tells them that everybody is dead outside the gates, and they just believe them? And are super surprised that someone (morse coding) isn't? That's the conspiracy? L.A. has millions of residents, how should the military even know everybody is dead? It's impossible.

 

And they shot people in infected areas that are not infected, you don't say? Since we already now they used napalm in Atlanta later. Let's cut a hole into the fence, that keeps us safe from the walkers and sneak around.

 

Unless they come up with any real new background story like a sound conspiracy or something, season 2 is just a waste of time and money.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

EDIT:  Moved to the appropriate thread (I think).  Now over at Clarks vs CDB; Comparing FTWD to TWD thead.

Edited September 25, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[NurseGiGi]

Well, the ratings for the show have been excellent, even though they have been dropping with each episode.  But I'm sure TPTB are patting each other on their backs and laughing all the way to the bank.

 

I've certainly doled out my share of criticism and disappointment for the show and yet here I am, waiting to see how the season ends.  So, I guess my point is they don't seem to care about the quality as long as they keep raking in the money.

 

Such a wasted premise so far.

[Raven1707]

Here are the Live + 3 Cable Ratings for Episode 104, "Not Fade Away":

 

Fear The Walking Dead was the week's top Live + 3 ratings gainer among adults 18-49 adding 2.0 adults 18-49 ratings points.

 

Fear The Walking Dead led total viewership increases, adding 3.751 million viewers to its Live + Same Day viewers. [Total 10.374 million viewers]

 

http://tvbythenumbers.zap2it.com/2015/09/25/live-3-cable-ratings-fear-the-walking-dead-tops-adults-18-49-total-viewership-gains-dominion-leads-percentage-gains-for-the-week-ending-september-20-2015/471634/

 

Yeah, AMC isn't sweating the small stuff.

Edited September 25, 2015 by Raven1707

[maystone]

The Minority Report: I like it. *shrugs* I like the AU of a zombie apocalypse.I like their premise of showing it from the perspective of a family who has no idea what's going on. It's their (the writers) story, and I'm willing to sit back and watch it unfold on their terms. That's pretty much my bottom line on any show. I have to be willing to accept the "world" that's being inhabited and the reason for the story. And that is why I actually watch very little TV :)

                                           

I don't care  if they're not writing the story the way I would have. If I wanted it my way, I'd write fanfic. (And I say that as a former fanfic writer.) I do care that their created world has an internal logic. So far, I think that it does. Again, I'm waiting to see how this plays out. If lots of it is taking place out of the sight and knowledge of the main characters - hey, that's part of the premise. Sucks to be the Clarks & Co. I wonder what's going to happen given who those characters are and what they have to work with. I'm intrigued enough to keep coming back for more of the story.

 

I know that most of the posters here are disappointed or actively disliking the show. Absolutely right on, guys. I wouldn't try to change your mind. I'm just adding another voice to the discussion. And maybe waving a tiny little pennant that reads "Go Team FTWD!" Heh.

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

The Minority Report: I like it. *shrugs* I like the AU of a zombie apocalypse.I like their premise of showing it from the perspective of a family who has no idea what's going on. It's their (the writers) story, and I'm willing to sit back and watch it unfold on their terms. That's pretty much my bottom line on any show. I have to be willing to accept the "world" that's being inhabited and the reason for the story. And that is why I actually watch very little TV :)

                                           

I don't care  if they're not writing the story the way I would have. If I wanted it my way, I'd write fanfic. (And I say that as a former fanfic writer.) I do care that their created world has an internal logic. So far, I think that it does. Again, I'm waiting to see how this plays out. If lots of it is taking place out of the sight and knowledge of the main characters - hey, that's part of the premise. Sucks to be the Clarks & Co. I wonder what's going to happen given who those characters are and what they have to work with. I'm intrigued enough to keep coming back for more of the story.

 

I know that most of the posters here are disappointed or actively disliking the show. Absolutely right on, guys. I wouldn't try to change your mind. I'm just adding another voice to the discussion. And maybe waving a tiny little pennant that reads "Go Team FTWD!" Heh.

 

I fully admit to not having really followed all the promos, interviews, articles, and information about FTWD before the pilot aired, so that can be used as a disclaimer if anyone likes.

 

That said, I was under the impression that this show was to show us - the viewers - how the 'normal' world became the overall ZA world that Rick Grimes woke up from his coma to.  What we are getting is a very sheltered and limited personal point of view of direct-impact events of stuff that is supposedly happening in said world.  I believe the premise was to demonstrate a ZA outbreak and how it affected everyone - not "watch as 9 people, 3 groups of family, struggle to (even attempt to) understand what is happening around them".

 

Obviously YMMV and opinions differ, but I feel like I was misled on how the way this show would try and improve on the lack of pre-destination and 'why & how?' that is TWD, or at least was when it first started. 

Edited September 29, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36

[FierceCritter]

It's their (the writers) story, and I'm willing to sit back and watch it unfold on their terms. That's pretty much my bottom line on any show. I have to be willing to accept the "world" that's being inhabited and the reason for the story. And that is why I actually watch very little TV :)

                                           

I don't care  if they're not writing the story the way I would have.  I do care that their created world has an internal logic. So far, I think that it does.  I'm intrigued enough to keep coming back for more of the story.

(*snipped here and there*)

 

^This is generally the way I feel about TV, and I also watch very little for the same reasons. It's also why my involvement in forums like this has mostly been lurking, not discussing. Not that there's a single thing wrong with that kind of musing. I just don't do it myself for the most part. But if I like a show enough that just watching isn't enough, reading forums like this has generally fed my need.

 

That said, I was under the impression that this show was to show us - the viewers - how the 'normal' world became the overall ZA world that Rick Grimes woke up from his coma to.  I believe the premise was to demonstrate a ZA outbreak and how it affected everyone

 

I feel like I was misled on how the way this show would try and improve on the lack of pre-destination and 'why & how?' that is TWD, or at least was when it first started. 

(*snipped here and there*)

^This is also what I thought FTWD was going to be.

[Raven1707]

                             

I don't care  if they're not writing the story the way I would have. If I wanted it my way, I'd write fanfic. (And I say that as a former fanfic writer.) I do care that their created world has an internal logic. So far, I think that it does. Again, I'm waiting to see how this plays out. If lots of it is taking place out of the sight and knowledge of the main characters - hey, that's part of the premise. Sucks to be the Clarks & Co. I wonder what's going to happen given who those characters are and what they have to work with. I'm intrigued enough to keep coming back for more of the story.

 

I know that most of the posters here are disappointed or actively disliking the show. Absolutely right on, guys. I wouldn't try to change your mind. I'm just adding another voice to the discussion. And maybe waving a tiny little pennant that reads "Go Team FTWD!" Heh.

 

I'll add my voice to yours, if you don't mind the company. The show is far from perfect -- for the record, I can't recall ever watching a perfect show -- but so far it's holding my interest, and that's enough for now.

 

 

 

[KirkB]

Oh, I don't hate the show. Believe me. I won't continue watching if it gets to that point. As long as some aspect of it holds my interest I'll keep tuning in. Sadly, in this case it's mostly because I'm trying to figure out which of the characters is going to die first, and in what order. Right now I can't decide if Nick is going to die early or last. Because this episode shows me the central issue I have with the show. I don't understand why it exists. TWD shows characters dealing with the aftermath of the zombie apocalypse. Only Rick needs to be brought up to speed on what's going on. The show runners have said in interviews they don't know or care how the ZA happened and have no interest in telling stories about it anyway. And FTWD seems to bear this out. Because they're doing a show set before, or at least in the early days of, the ZA but aren't showing us much of it. You usually do a prequel to illustrate what came before the original story. Too bad we don't get much of that. 

[NurseGiGi]

The Minority Report: I like it. *shrugs* I like the AU of a zombie apocalypse.I like their premise of showing it from the perspective of a family who has no idea what's going on. It's their (the writers) story, and I'm willing to sit back and watch it unfold on their terms. That's pretty much my bottom line on any show. I have to be willing to accept the "world" that's being inhabited and the reason for the story. And that is why I actually watch very little TV :)

                                           

I don't care  if they're not writing the story the way I would have. If I wanted it my way, I'd write fanfic. (And I say that as a former fanfic writer.) I do care that their created world has an internal logic. So far, I think that it does. Again, I'm waiting to see how this plays out. If lots of it is taking place out of the sight and knowledge of the main characters - hey, that's part of the premise. Sucks to be the Clarks & Co. I wonder what's going to happen given who those characters are and what they have to work with. I'm intrigued enough to keep coming back for more of the story.

 

I know that most of the posters here are disappointed or actively disliking the show. Absolutely right on, guys. I wouldn't try to change your mind. I'm just adding another voice to the discussion. And maybe waving a tiny little pennant that reads "Go Team FTWD!" Heh.

Definitely agreed, different strokes and all.  A friend at work says she and her son got tired of TWD and stopped watching it but decided to give FTWD a shot and they both love it.  Another friend is like me, he's just kind of biding his time until the mothership comes back.  

 

I just wish they were actually showing more of the fall and how people responded, which was the selling point for me.  They seem to be skirting over a big portion of that, however, and I'm not interested in TWD lite.  The whole thing just feels like a cash grab and I guess I kinda feel suckered in.  And who knows, maybe the final 2 episodes will pull it all together for me.

 

ETA:  Also wanted to say how much I enjoy reading all the different points of view this forum has to offer.  And FierceCritter, so glad you came out of lurk mode!

Edited September 26, 2015 by NurseGiGi

[iRarelyWatchTV36]

Not sure if this has been brought up yet (probably has been, I haven't read each and every post in this thread) - and it probably isn't, since I think it just might be - but did anyone notice the Mother of all 'easter eggs' at about ~2:05ish mark at the start of this episode?

 

I swear to God (or to whoever you swear to) that at first glance, and pausing it/slow-forwarding, that the person that is right-most behind the rolling tank that Chris's camera pans behind is a clone of Chandler Riggs, (ie Carl Grimes); this kid is even dressed like Carl is on TWD, sans the Sheriff's hat.  I'm pretty sure it isn't him , but someone in the casting department went way above and beyond to get someone who is an almost exact doppleganger of him to throw in there for someone to catch with an eagle eye.

 

I know someone will prove it wrong, but next time you watch the episode, look for him and tell me doesn't make you go "HEY! That's Carl! (or Coral, if you prefer)".

Edited September 26, 2015 by iRarelyWatchTV36