NFL Thread

[xaxat]

This season some dude who wears his socks too high will get fined more than Watson did.

It's a disturbing thought, but I really think Watson truly believes that he did nothing wrong. He sees sexual acts as a part of a (female) massage therapists duties. His own lawyer even hinted at that when he he referenced "happy endings." 

I read the judge's decision and it is rough. Perhaps the worst part is that the judge makes a distinction between violent sexual contact and non-consensual sexual contact.

She finds that

Quote

Mr. Watson engaged in sexual assault

And

Quote

Mr. Watson’s conduct posed a genuine danger to the safety and well-being of another person.

Quote

Mr. Watson’s pattern of conduct is more egregious than any before reviewed by the NFL.

But she also gets into rationalizations

Quote

As to mitigating factors, he is a first-offender

No, he is at least a four time offender based  on your own assessment of the limited evidence presented to you.

And then se declares

Quote

It likewise is undisputed that prior cases involving non-violent sexual assault have resulted in discipline far less severe than what the NFL proposes here, with the most severe penalty being a 3-game suspension for a player who had been previously warned about his conduct.46

Uh, OK, give then why did you not give him that 3 game suspension for each allegation that you, in your own ruling" found credible?

I'm no lawyer, but her reasoning sounds fucked.

As for the Haslam's statement, the judge wrote.

Quote

I note that there are aggravating factors applicable to Mr. Watson, that is, his lack of expressed remorse

Sorry for the wall of text.

[Xeliou66]

Yeah what the fuck is with that statement about Watson feeling remorseful? He isn’t. This is just the Browns trying to smooth everything over, I think the Browns are stupid for trading for Watson and I don’t trust Watson to stay out of trouble.

I used to kind of like the Browns, but the way they’ve handled this Watson mess makes it very hard to root for them. I’m really glad my favorite team, the Falcons, didn’t get Watson, even though we’ll suck this year I would rather suck this year than trade away a bunch of future picks for sleazebag Watson. 

[Prairie Rose]

The only people who think he's remorseful are the Haslams. At this point, the whole Johnny Manziel era doesn't look so bad!! 😮🙄

[merylinkid]

The judge is pissed that Danny Snyder got away with no punishment.   So she is saying "well if you won't punish Snyder, I am not punishing Watson who I FOUND TO BE A DANGER TO OTHERS."   Make your point some other way.   Rule on the case in front of you, not the one you wish you had.

[Danielg342]

Oh no, DeShaun Watson is definitely remorseful...remorseful that he got caught.

If you read the Haslams' statement carefully, you'll see that they say Watson is sorry for "all the heartache he's caused". Meaning, Watson isn't at all sorry for violating all those women and expecting them to violate their professional integrity...no, Watson is simply sorry that the City of Cleveland, the Browns organization and Browns fans elsewhere have to go through this mess.

One that he started.

I do, genuinely, hope that one day Watson will realize- like Tiger Woods did before him- that he let his fame get to his head and it made him do a lot of things he shouldn't have done (as that is what I think drove him to do what he's done). Even though this suspension is far from what I would have liked (I think Watson should be gone for at least a year and a half- to also teach the Browns a lesson for gaming his contract), I still hope it's a wakeup call for the quarterback in that he realizes that even a man as powerful as him can still get into serious trouble and that he can truly be a better man. If Watson can grow and mature from this and learn the lessons he needs to, it's the least he can do for all the women he's hurt, even if it will never fully absolve him for what he's done.

[NUguy514]

8 hours ago, roamyn said:

You guys are making me defend Deshawn, and I hate that.

No one is making you defend him.  I'm not being snarky by saying that, by the way – just making the point that you're defending him because you're choosing to.

8 hours ago, roamyn said:

These were only ALLEGATIONS.  There was no Criminal charges.  I believe that the majority of these women were band wagoners.  But I do believe there was something there.

The bolded sentence is the reason why you can write the sentence immediately prior.  Too many women who go public with sexual assault allegations are not believed, are called gold diggers and sluts "who asked for it," are pilloried and threatened, are lectured on how they "should've" protected themselves, and any number of other cruel pieces of bullshit that are designed to remove blame from where it belongs: the men (usually) who assaulted them.  Moreover, since there are almost never witnesses to sexual assaults, it's almost always a "he said, she said" situation, making it nearly impossible for prosecutors to put together a strong case.  That's why only 5% of sexual assault allegations lead to arrest, 2.8% lead to a felony conviction, and 2.5% lead to the perpetrators being incarcerated.  I will always believe the victim first, and that is especially true when there are sixty-six victims and one perpetrating piece of shit.

5 hours ago, Prairie Rose said:

Equally sickening is the statement from Browns ownership. I've already made my feelings on this subject known here so I won't repeat all that. Read this and puke:

The Browns ownership is trash, and it trickles on down.  Jimmy and Dee can go eat a bag of infinite dicks tout de suite.

[Prairie Rose]

13 hours ago, roamyn said:

You guys are making me defend Deshawn, and I hate that.

These were only ALLEGATIONS.  There was no Criminal charges.  I believe that the majority of these women were band wagoners.  But I do believe there was something there.

However, there was NO VIOLENCE as the NFL decrees it, involved.  I’m not saying that I believe these were not violent incidents (because any assault is violent IMO), but as the NFL describes as violence.  Therein lies the problem.

The six game suspension actually aligns with similar charges and allegations the NFL has dealt with since 2015, when the Personal Violation Code was rewritten.

ETA:  I hope Baker & the Panthers crush the Browns in Game 1.  I’m a die hard Brownie, who loves Baker.  It doesn’t hurt that I live in NC tho.

This attitude right there is why so many victims don't come forward. When that many women report the same guy, there's most likely something to it (see Cosby). Where there's smoke, there's fire. 

[merylinkid]

10 hours ago, Danielg342 said:

(I think Watson should be gone for at least a year and a half- to also teach the Browns a lesson for gaming his contract),

I LIKE this.   If the judge wanted to send a message owners need to be held accountable too, this would have done it.   The Browns thought they were so smart with that contract.

[Haleth]

Oh, give the little ladies a new sparkly pink NFL tee shirt.  That should make things right.

[bluegirl147]

37 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

 If the judge wanted to send a message owners need to be held accountable too, this would have done it.   The Browns thought they were so smart with that contract.

So what happens if Watson assaults another massage therapist while under contract with Cleveland?  Will the Browns try to cover it up?  Will they issue a mea culpa?  I wonder if Haslam is a gambler because there is so much that can go wrong here.  

[DrSpaceman73]

I didn't realize the contract was manipulated in anticipation of a suspension.  Which means financially Watson was not really affected at all by this.  

He basically is getting about a year and a half off work, paid, with a small fine in comparison to his contract size.  

Though he did get banished to Cleveland. 

No charges either.  He really hit out of this with few consequences and a 'try to be a good boy from now on'   assuming the six games sticks. 

Bunch of bs.  

[Carey]

15 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

So what happens if Watson assaults another massage therapist while under contract with Cleveland?  Will the Browns try to cover it up?  Will they issue a mea culpa?  I wonder if Haslam is a gambler because there is so much that can go wrong here.  

Watson is just an NFL player, not an NFL owner.  Maybe he's not going to learn his lesson, but I think even the dumbest of the dumbest people on Planet Earth would not screw up in a similar fashion to what he's been accused of doing.

1 hour ago, Prairie Rose said:

This attitude right there is why so many victims don't come forward. When that many women report the same guy, there's most likely something to it (see Cosby). Where there's smoke, there's fire. 

What's different between Cosby and DeShaun is that Cosby was an icon for several decades.  DeShaun is not.  To be fair, he does have talent & did well at Clemson, but after several years, he only has one playoff win.  It's not easy to believe someone when they're accusing someone like Bill, but Watson hasn't reached that status right now

[bluegirl147]

16 minutes ago, Carey said:

Maybe he's not going to learn his lesson, but I think even the dumbest of the dumbest people on Planet Earth would not screw up in a similar fashion to what he's been accused of doing.

If he had just been looking to get his rocks off I'm sure there would have been plenty of willing partners.  Seems like he got off on the power dynamic with him having the power. 

20 minutes ago, Carey said:

It's not easy to believe someone when they're accusing someone like Bill, but Watson hasn't reached that status right now

I could always sense something bad about Cosby even when I was a kid watching Fat Albert.  

[Prairie Rose]

1 hour ago, Carey said:

Watson is just an NFL player, not an NFL owner.  Maybe he's not going to learn his lesson, but I think even the dumbest of the dumbest people on Planet Earth would not screw up in a similar fashion to what he's been accused of doing.

Maybe so, but he got away with it at Clemson and Houston. He's getting away with it now in Cleveland. Why not keep it up, now that he knows all he'll get is a slap on the wrist? This is entitlement at its very worst.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[mojoween]

I didn’t look at Cleveland’s schedule, but if they have any national games after Watson (or D Walton, as some troglodyte tweeted at Sarah Spain yesterday) comes off suspension and he takes the field, it will be interesting to see what the ratings are like.  Only way to let the owners know how sleazy this all is is to not watch those games.

[JTMacc99]

14 hours ago, xaxat said:

I read the judge's decision and it is rough. Perhaps the worst part is that the judge makes a distinction between violent sexual contact and non-consensual sexual contact.

Agreed. Digging into it a bit, my guess is that distinction is based on what is written in the league's policy and their previous interpretations of what is violent and non-violent.  

Based on some of the interpretations of the judge's decision, I read what she said as follows:

• He absolutely did what he has been accused of doing.
• He has no remorse for doing these things.
• Those actions break three of the rules as defined in the collective bargaining agreement.
  • THIS is the NFL personal conduct policy. It helps to understand her decision.
  • Page 2 spells out things that are covered by the policy. Note that violent assaults are the first bullet point and other sexual assaults are the second bullet point. This matters because it gives the judge a reference point to see how the NFL previously handed out punishments to players who violated each of the bullet points.
  • The big deal here ^^^ is the interpretation by the judge that Watson's violations were "non-violent" as defined by the policy. I'm assuming the judge's interpretation is using how the NFL previously sorted sexual assaults, but that's just my guess.
  • Page 8 defines what "Repeat Offender" means. This matters because technically this is the first time Watson is being looked at for disciplinary action for this offense. He'll be a repeat offender if (and/or when) he does it again.
• She makes the point that her decision of six games is actually MORE than what the NFL typically hands out for violations of the policy as it is defined in the policy between the league and the players.
• She makes the point that if the NFL wants the punishment to be more than what they typically hand out for this type of violation, they can certainly do so, however:
  • If they're going to change what they do, given that they have a collectively bargained agreement, they should probably put that in writing and/or agree with the union that such violations are going to get longer punishments than in the past.
  • This is opposed to just handing out a longer punishment this time because it seems like they should. Doing so will likely lead to litigation with the union. IN OTHER WORDS, the NFL needs to define how long these punishments should be and not just wing it.

[bluegirl147]

5 minutes ago, mojoween said:

I didn’t look at Cleveland’s schedule, but if they have any national games after Watson (or D Walton, as some troglodyte tweeted at Sarah Spain yesterday) comes off suspension and he takes the field, it will be interesting to see what the ratings are like.  Only way to let the owners know how sleazy this all is is to not watch those games.

Halloween night they play Cincinnati in Cleveland.  It is the second game Watson will be back if the six game suspension holds.  

33 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Maybe so, but he got away with it at Clemson and Houston. He's getting away with it now in Cleveland. Why not keep it up, now that he knows all he'll get is a slap on the wrist? This is entitlement at its very worst.

I don't think Watson will ever learn his lesson because I don't think he thinks he did anything wrong.  

[merylinkid]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

So what happens if Watson assaults another massage therapist while under contract with Cleveland?  Will the Browns try to cover it up?  Will they issue a mea culpa?  I wonder if Haslam is a gambler because there is so much that can go wrong here.  

Watson is only supposed to use Browns' training staff for massages now.   Which how will THAT be enforced?   Other than you know not getting NDAs from the team for his private massages, if he is doing it in his own house, the League will never know.   Until he is accused again.   And he will be.   He's a predator.   They don't "learn their lesson" they just get better at hiding their actions.

[JTMacc99]

1 minute ago, merylinkid said:

Watson is only supposed to use Browns' training staff for massages now.   Which how will THAT be enforced?

And if you're team employed, how would you feel that it's your job to work with the guy who has been determined to be a sexual predator? 

How about: No. 

[bluegirl147]

2 minutes ago, merylinkid said:

Until he is accused again.   And he will be.   He's a predator.   They don't "learn their lesson" they just get better at hiding their actions.

I didn't follow the timeline.  Did he continue to assault women after the first allegations went public?

[Prairie Rose]

7 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

And if you're team employed, how would you feel that it's your job to work with the guy who has been determined to be a sexual predator? 

How about: No. 

Right. Aren't there any male NFL massage therapists? I'd quit before having to work with him...or else I'd have a can of pepper spray at the ready.

Edited August 2, 2022 by Prairie Rose

[mojoween]

11 minutes ago, bluegirl147 said:

Halloween night they play Cincinnati in Cleveland.  It is the second game Watson will be back if the six game suspension holds.  

I don't think Watson will ever learn his lesson because I don't think he thinks he did anything wrong.  

Ok I am absolutely not watching Cleveland on my birthday.

Considering what his slimy lawyer said, Watson definitely thinks he didn’t do anything wrong.

He always seemed like such a nice kid.  This is all so gross.  

And I know what JT posted above makes sense, but the more I hear, the more disappointed I am in the judge.

[Prairie Rose]

I know for sure I will not be watching or listening to any games this season. The Browns, by signing this guy in the first place, essentially told me that I and all other women don't matter. They knew what he was. 

Of course, if history repeats itself (and it usually does when it comes to the Browns), he'll fall flat on his face like basically every other QB has since 1999. It'll serve him and the Haslams right. 

[cambridgeguy]

And this is without winning a single game yet.  He leads them to the playoffs and the Cleveland fans will anoint him the city's greatest hero since LeBron.

But let's not pretend every single fanbase wouldn't do the same if they were in the same position.  Morals and decency are one thing, but exciting football and wins are obviously more important.

Edited August 2, 2022 by cambridgeguy

[bluegirl147]

16 minutes ago, Prairie Rose said:

Of course, if history repeats itself (and it usually does when it comes to the Browns), he'll fall flat on his face like basically every other QB has since 1999. It'll serve him and the Haslams right. 

I really really hope Karma pays Cleveland a visit.  

12 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

And this is without winning a single game yet.  He leads them to the playoffs and the Cleveland fans will anoint him the city's greatest hero since LeBron.

But let's not pretend every single fanbase wouldn't do the same if they were in the same position.  Morals and decency are one thing, but exciting football and wins are obviously more important.

As a lifelong Steeler fan I wrestled with liking Big Ben on the field and hating what he did off the field.  It got easier when he showed remorse and got married, had kids and seemingly settled down.  But if I was a Cleveland fan I would never watch another game as long as Watson was on the team.  I wonder if he will ever be endorsing anything ever again.  Not that he needs to with all that guaranteed contract money coming to him.  

[Prairie Rose]

23 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

And this is without winning a single game yet.  He leads them to the playoffs and the Cleveland fans will anoint him the city's greatest hero since LeBron.

But let's not pretend every single fanbase wouldn't do the same if they were in the same position.  Morals and decency are one thing, but exciting football and wins are obviously more important.

You know what it means - crime really does pay!!! 😫😫😫😫😫

[xaxat]

35 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Page 8 defines what "Repeat Offender" means. This matters because technically this is the first time Watson is being looked at for disciplinary action for this offense. He'll be a repeat offender if (and/or when) he does it again.

That's insane (the rule, not your interpretation). Under this logic, had all 25+ women testified before the judge, and she found that all of their allegations were credible, he still would have gotten only 6 games.

[JTMacc99]

43 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

But let's not pretend every single fanbase wouldn't do the same if they were in the same position.  Morals and decency are one thing, but exciting football and wins are obviously more important.

As a fan, I suppose you hope that your owner takes the high ground for you.

Fans of teams typically root for the uniform. It's awfully difficult to give up a lifetime of loyalty to that uniform because there's a single player you detest on the team. 

I mean, I wouldn't expect people to go lining up for that player's autograph like in that photo, but I would expect people to keep rooting for their team in most cases.

[mojoween]

Ray Rice abused a woman on video and received a rousing ovation in Baltimore.  Humans have an incredible capacity to show bad judgment.

[Carey]

18 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Ray Rice abused a woman on video and received a rousing ovation in Baltimore.  Humans have an incredible capacity to show bad judgment.

To be more specific, the ovation Ray Rice received was off of the video that excluded him actually hitting his wife.  That would surface just about a month later, soon after the league's ruling.

Like you said, humans have an incredible capacity to show bad judgement.  They typically double down and voice their behavior.  Especially in this example, after the second video surfaced too; "It's only fair enough that if a woman hits a man, it's fair game for a man to hit her in return!"  That was their response shortly after the former SB 47 winning RB got kicked out.  As mentioned, people are entitled to their own opinion, but that's a total no from me in terms of agreeing with that statement

[mojoween]

Well now we know just what the NFL *really* thinks about women (see: the Dolphins punishment for racism).

Edit - sorry I got my Dolphins transgressions mixed up.  This one had something to do with Tom Brady and/or Sean Payton something something.

Edited August 2, 2022 by mojoween

[bluegirl147]

26 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

I mean, I wouldn't expect people to go lining up for that player's autograph like in that photo, but I would expect people to keep rooting for their team in most cases.

Let's see what happens if he doesn't win games.  

27 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

As a fan, I suppose you hope that your owner takes the high ground for you.

Santonio Holmes was traded after his off field misbehavior became a big deal.  There were domestic abuse allegations but all anyone remembers is the wake and bake tweet.  

29 minutes ago, mojoween said:

Ray Rice abused a woman on video and received a rousing ovation in Baltimore.  Humans have an incredible capacity to show bad judgment.

In some circles more people were outraged over Michael Vick being part of a dog fighting ring than Ray Rice punching his wife.  For the record I was outraged equally by both.  

[Fukui San]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

Well now we know just what the NFL *really* thinks about women (see: the Dolphins punishment for racism).

Edit - sorry I got my Dolphins transgressions mixed up.  This one had something to do with Tom Brady and/or Sean Payton something something.

Two picks, a first and a third, for tampering with Brady and Payton in 2019/2020.

They punted on the tanking suggestions, saying that sure owner Stephen Ross said to everyone that they should lose games to improve the Dolphins draft position and put a six-figure dollar amount to it, but he was just joking. OK. Apparently this is just fine for an owner to say.

Quote

The investigation also found that Ross' offer of $100,000 for every loss, of which there were "differing recollections about the wording, timing, and context ... was not intended or taken to be a serious offer, nor was the subject pursued in any respect by Mr. Ross or anyone else at the club."

NFL strips Miami Dolphins of 2023 first-round pick, fines Stephen Ross $1.5M for tampering with Tom Brady, Sean Payton

Edited August 2, 2022 by Fukui San

[JTMacc99]

10 minutes ago, Fukui San said:

Two picks, a first and a third, for tampering with Brady and Payton in 2019/2020.

Yep. Tampering is very clearly defined as something you can't do. How an owner would think that rule doesn't apply to him is beyond what I can explain logically. What a jackass Ross is. 

I will chime in with my two cents here: Comparing this punishment to the Watson punishment is apples and oranges. The NFL has rules to ensure that teams compete on a level playing ground. You break those rules, you should expect to be punished and possibly very severely. 

Those rules have been around a very long time.

The NFL also has rules surrounding the reputation of the league, like the personal conduct policy. These rules are constantly evolving (especially since social media and everybody running around with a camera and twitter altered the way people find out about players doing shit things in their personal lives), and so are the punishments.  It's not like players weren't doing horrible things in the 1970s. It's just that the only way those stories got loose in the news would be if a beat writer decided to publish a story about it. (They didn't.)

[Magog]

3 hours ago, cambridgeguy said:

And this is without winning a single game yet.  He leads them to the playoffs and the Cleveland fans will anoint him the city's greatest hero since LeBron.

He better get the Browns to the Super Bowl & win it for that to happen. 

[cambridgeguy]

Cleveland has had four winning seasons and three playoff appearances in the past 30 years.  The Browns fans will grade him on a curve.

[JTMacc99]

8 minutes ago, cambridgeguy said:

Cleveland has had four winning seasons and three playoff appearances in the past 30 years.  The Browns fans will grade him on a curve.

True.

Hey, on that note: The Cowboys have won 3 playoff games in the past 25 years. Maybe they should have taken a look at Watson.

[Uncalled for shot at the Cowboys. I have no regrets.]

[Prairie Rose]

3 hours ago, Magog said:

He better get the Browns to the Super Bowl & win it for that to happen. 

I hope you're not holding your breath!! I remember people here raving over Odell Beckham Jr. - saying that the Browns would finally win the Super Bowl now that we was on the team. Of course, he would go on to win the Super Bowl - with LA!!!! 

[roamyn]

Browns ship ‘Thank You’ bouquet to the Dolphins.

I say, Thank you to @JTMacc99 for stating in clear cut terms what I meant to say.  The problem lies with the NFL’s rules of what constitutes as “violent”.

Fix that problem and if anything like this happens again, then you get a more accurate punishment.  

But if it does, it better not be another AFC North team.

[mojoween]

5 hours ago, roamyn said:

But if it does, it better not be another AFC North team.

You’re up, Cincinnati.

[roamyn]

1 hour ago, mojoween said:

You’re up, Cincinnati.

Well if it has to be an AFC North team, I would prefer it being the Ravens as they stole my team.

[Grrarrggh]

18 hours ago, mojoween said:

Well now we know just what the NFL *really* thinks about women (see: the Dolphins punishment for racism).

Now? Hell, anyone paying a modicum of attention has always know. Sadly most of those people also care more about watching a sport or making money. 

[merylinkid]

Dolphins accused of tanking and tampering.   BOTH go to competitive advantage and integrity.   But somehow the more serious one -- tanking, is found to be the owner "just joking around."   Ross is suspended as well as another minority owner for their role in the tampering.   But only to show the world that the Personal Conduct really really does apply to owners too.   

Tampering always happens.   Its why complete deals are done 1 minute after free agency opens.   Even with a "legal" tampering period it just means the tampering starts sooner.   But the tanking only didn't happen because Brian Flores has integrity.   Flores should be given a medal by the NFL for saving it from a HUGE scandal if it got out.   Now they can sweep under the rug as "well they didn't actually tank so the owner was just joking."

Edited August 3, 2022 by merylinkid

[DrSpaceman73]

Tanking is just hard to prove or even really happen in the NFL.   

Even if you sit guys there are back ups that will gladly take their chance to show what they can do in the league.  You put them out there and they aren't tanking anything.  They don't care about records. They want a chance to play.  

Everyone thinks the colts tanked the year luck was drafted.  No, they just really sucked that bad without manning.  

Plus tanking in the NFL might get you one first round player.  But one player doesn't make a team. Even of you get a franchise qb, you still need people around them.  

Tanking in the nba is much easier and more effective. 

[bluegirl147]

38 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Tanking is just hard to prove or even really happen in the NFL.   

It's also something that every fan thinks about when their team looks to have a sucky season.  I'm guilty of it.  When it looked like the Steelers weren't going to draft a QB I thought well if we suck at least we will get a high draft position next year.  

44 minutes ago, DrSpaceman73 said:

Plus tanking in the NFL might get you one first round player.  But one player doesn't make a team. Even of you get a franchise qb, you still need people around them.  

Detroit and Cleveland prove this.  How many top five draft picks have they had between them the past 20 years?

[mojoween]

Snerk. 

[DrSpaceman73]

2 hours ago, bluegirl147 said:

It's also something that every fan thinks about when their team looks to have a sucky season.  I'm guilty of it.  When it looked like the Steelers weren't going to draft a QB I thought well if we suck at least we will get a high draft position next year.  

Detroit and Cleveland prove this.  How many top five draft picks have they had between them the past 20 years?

And the jets.  

[JTMacc99]

Since I have five minutes to answer such questions, here are the number of Top 5 draft picks by team since 2003 (so the last 100 Top 5 picks.)

Jacksonville is your leader, which was not a surprise. Interesting to see that the Raiders, Rams, and Bucs are frequent visitors to the top 5.  

[Carey]

"If the Jets are part of that group of legit awfulness over the past 20 years, then you have to add the Jaguars to the mix." - What yours truly typed before JTMacc's post above surfaced prior to the completion of my post

Might as well add that the Jets have actually had more success in that period (1 division title, 5 playoff wins, plus the Favre year).  The Raiders & Bucs crap ass nature wasn't too long ago, but sorta forgettable due to their recent success.  Unlike the Browns, the Raiders haven't won a playoff game in a long time.  Cincinnati will likely be forgotten as a team that's been awful for some time (despite their 2009-2015 run); they nearly won the super bowl despite picking in the Top 5 twice in as many years headed to the 2021 season

For what it's worth, I'm glad the Steelers aren't in the business of tanking.  They haven't even finished last in their own division in over 3 decades.  Plus, for several years prior to the current structure that's been in place for a whopping 20 years, they had 6 teams in its division.

Before Haskins died, I don't think they would have or should have selected a QB (in the first round), but you need a QB in this league these days, so I have no problem with it.  Plus, they had an 8-6 mark with Duck starting for them

Edited August 3, 2022 by Carey
Discussion related to a team's annual poor performance

[JTMacc99]

When I sort it by when the perennial top 5 picking teams had the picks, you can sort of spot the patterns.  The Jets did have a big gap.  The Jaguars just set up shop in 2012 and stayed there.

The Rams escaped the top 5 after they picked Goff in 2016.  The Browns escaped the top 5 after they picked Mayfield in 2018. The Jets took a break after 2009 when they drafted Mark Sanchez. (Seems like the lesson is: Landing even a pretty good quarterback with a top 5 pick will get you out of the loop.)