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Elena Gilbert: The Love Of Everyone's Life

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I'm really at the point with Elena/the show where I need the writers to clarify what is going on with her, and if nothing is--if they think she's just great the way she is--I think I might be done with the show altogether. I really liked her as a human for the first three seasons, maybe in reaction to your Bella reference above. I think she could have been very one-dimensional, nothing more than a cypher. But I actually found her much more interesting than that. As a 16 year old orphan, she was self-sacrificing to the point of being maybe a little suicidal. Her loved ones' safety and happiness were more important to her than her own life, and that was that. All of her choices would flow from that. She didn't just sit around waiting for the supernatural hunks to save her. She called up Originals and made deals, even when those deals meant her probable death.

This season, two of the most important people in her life were gone for three months, completely out of contact, including after one of their father's was murdered in front of the whole town. And she just... didn't notice. Didn't think that was weird. Or actually, did think it was weird, but pushed that aside because she was happy! So happy, in case she hasn't said that 100 times. When she found out what was going on, she basically said that she wanted to get them back (and then for Stefan to get his memory back, and then for him to get over his PTSD) because she had been happy. Now she felt guilty, and she didn't want to feel guilty anymore. That's not Elena. Or I should say, if it is Elena now, then I think I'm done with the show. Because that's not the kind of character development I'm looking for.

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I couldn't agree more! Her character has totally gone off the rails in terms of how Elana "would" behave. I was willing to forgive it when her humanity was turned off, but I don't get what's happening with her now. I guess that was Damon's point when he broke up with her. I'm waiting to see how it all plays out.

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I totally agree about Elena's characterization, and I think it's why I've felt so disengaged from this show for the last year. For me, it boils down to the Damon/Elena thing: in order to make them a couple, they had to fundamentally alter Elena's character. Old Elena would be tormented by all the mayhem he caused when Katherine-as-Elena broke up with him; with current Elena, it barely warrants a shrug.

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I totally agree about Elena's characterization, and I think it's why I've felt so disengaged from this show for the last year. For me, it boils down to the Damon/Elena thing: in order to make them a couple, they had to fundamentally alter Elena's character. Old Elena would be tormented by all the mayhem he caused when Katherine-as-Elena broke up with him; with current Elena, it barely warrants a shrug.

I personally prefer it that way. With all the absolutely horrible things she's done on the show, especially recently, it would be incredibly hypocritical of Elena to give Damon grief over what he's done, and I for one would find it much worse than what we have now if she did that. Not that I'd say what we have now is good really, just the lesser of the 2 evils.

This is the woman who had such massive loss and abandonment issues she decided to condemn who knows how many people to suffer on the Other Side possibly forever just to get one of her friends back. I think that Elena's character hasn't been particularly altered, just that aforementioned issues and the fact that the universe is out of screw her at every turn are driving her to do more and more horrific things to keep the people she cares about safe and alongside her.

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I can understand what you're saying, but I just disagree. I'm not interested in this version of Elena, at all. I'm not interested in a show where EVERY character becomes more and more amoral. It just takes away any stakes, because you know that there's nowhere but down to go. It's why I was glad that Caroline didn't kill Tom--even though Enzo was a very convenient solution, I don't really care. That's fine with me. I just want a few characters still trying to be good and not hurting innocent people.

I'm not saying she should sit in judgment of Damon--although nothing she's done compares to the systematic hunting and killing of an entire family, generation after generation, just because one of them had a hand in his torture, for one example. I just don't want to see the heroine of this show decide that her personality, her values, her family, her friends--none of them is more important to her than Damon. Yuck. And right now, that's what we're looking at. If the show decides they want to go that route, I get it, but I'm out.

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I think the problem is how everyone else treats her more than Elena herself. She IS a vampire now, I expect her to change. I mean Damon was a different person when he was ...well a person than he is now as a 150 y/o vampire. I'd expect Elena AND Caroline to change that is why I can't stand Caroline b/c I call BS on her. When Stefan is true to who he really wants to be he isn't some noble vampire either he has to FORCE himself to be good. blah

I think one reason Elena loves Damon so much and has for a while is b/c she under it all wishes she could just let go and be like him but it is everyone else's expectations to be good "special snowflake" Elena that keep her so hypocritical wishy washy yes no...blah.

But I do agree at this point the back and forth is tedious.

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I'm trying not to think logically about doppelgangers or anything on this show, but, technically, should Stefan and Katherine have been the loves of each others' lives? Meaning, Tom and Elena would be the same? Imagine if human Elena and human Tom had met and had a totally normal, boring life. Probably impossible, but it would have been nice to at least see them meet.

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The way I think the doppelganger thing works is that all of them would be drawn to each other, not a one-to-one situation. If Elena met Tom, she would have been drawn to him too. It doesn't make sense for Katherine to have one person the "universe" is trying to match her with, and have that person born 350 years after her. In order for each doppelganger to have one match, they'd have to be born within a few years of each other. So if Tom was Elena's fated person, then there was another Amara-ganger from the 1860s who Stefan never met, and another Silas-ganger born in the 1400s who Kat never met. That...doesn't seem right. Or else the universe is pretty crappy at this match-making stuff.

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I'm not buying the "changing vampire Elena". The way the show has always sold vampirism is that it amplifies one's core personality attributes, which, for Elena, are supposed to be her compassion and self-sacrifice. With others it's been pretty much spot on. Damon was an insecure dick when he was human, and he became an even bigger insecure dick as a vamp. Stefan was a good son but probably with some inner demons that never got explored (cuz nobody is a perfect good boy, right?), so his demons morphed into the Ripper and his good side became a bunny sucking connoisseur who doesn't want to hurt innocent people.

But Elena's character did a total moral 180. If there were one word I'd describe her as, it would be "selfish", which is in a total opposition to her human self. This 180 was done purely for the purpose of creating and dragging out the triangle of suck. Now she's feeling all these feels about her and Damon not being good for each other because they end up doing shitty things for each other. Their relationship was never healthy. There was always lack of autonomy when it came to decisions, possessiveness, insecurities, obsession, you get the picture. So if this is the writers' way of attempting at putting Elena back on her own path I'll wait and see what happens but she's got a loooong way to go after all the selfish decisions she'd made.

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ITA MachuPichu, that is how I have always understood the vampire change to work.

 

I think the problem is how everyone else treats her more than Elena herself. She IS a vampire now, I expect her to change. I mean Damon was a different person when he was ...well a person than he is now as a 150 y/o vampire. I'd expect Elena AND Caroline to change that is why I can't stand Caroline b/c I call BS on her. When Stefan is true to who he really wants to be he isn't some noble vampire either he has to FORCE himself to be good. blah

And actually Caroline did change... It's just that being a vampire brought out her more positive characteristics and erased the pathological self-doubt and self esteem issues. She felt more capable, her life became in her control instead of out.
But this is Elena's thread and I guess in comparison Elena becoming a vampire was the final nail in the coffin in terms of things always getting out of hand and not as planned. If changing made her more inclined to be with Damon, that's another thing being shifted from its original path. But I must say that I always saw them working together well, there was no need for her to "get down to his level" for her to be forgiving. It made her look inconsistent and boyfriend carzy and he looked like an immature child. There is only so much insecurity before it goes from endearing to just unbearable.
I actually don't know why they felt that they had to shake up their relationship to make things more interesting. The Other Side issue could have been THE big supernatural problem for the second half of the season... The triangle is the problem, I am glad they realised it basically tired everyone out and they put Stelena to rest. Hopefully 6 ft under with concrete all around it.

Too bad, I always thought that Damon's track record shows that he doesn't need to idolise his love interest to be in love, so I thought it would be healthier for Elena to be with someone who doesn't consider her a saint. Admires and loves her but no pedestal and that is what happened with Damon causing the break up for being "unworthy".

 

ETA: I don't think letting loose means not caring your boyfriend would kill your brother... Or being ok with someone slaughtering entire generations of a family. Having a good time partying and drinking blood from the vein if that floats your boat should do it. People always mention what is "natural" about vampire feeding habits but there has always been one consistent rule in all the vamp lore I have come accross: discretion. Feeding and killing are not the same. Going around killing for the heck of it, because you don't control and measure your feed or you're upset you got dumped is extemely stupid. They get lucky a lot with avoiding discovery.

Edited by fantique
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The other thing about the "natural" argument or the relative morality of vampires is that if they want to continue to associate with humans, have relationships with humans, basically live a human (immortal, superpowered, but human) life, then they are probably going to have to live by the human moral code. Otherwise, go off in a vampire enclave and kill whoever you want--just don't brood about being judged and rejected by the humans around you, or by other vampires who do love humans and don't think they should be hurt or killed. Elena used to be a judgey person--forgiving, yes, but she had a pretty strong sense of right and wrong and she tried to live her life to honor her parents, and based on what she felt would keep her loved ones safe. I don't mind questioning right and wrong as you grow and change, but deciding to just stop caring about all of that--or about anything besides your own immediate desires--is not the kind of character growth I'm interested in seeing from someone who is supposed to be a heroine.

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I think a lot of how you feel about vampire Elena may be your motivation for watching the show in the first place. One reason I'm enjoying TO more is it is a show about vampires being vampires. I don't have any use for this notion that vampires should act like humans so that is the reason mopey characters like Stefan and judgemental harpies like Caroline bore me. I want to watch vampires learn to live with being vampires. Now Damon going around killing randomly IS his flaw that he is trying to work on. So I do think he needs to work on that.

 

I don't have any problem with Elena not being a heroine. I don't think vampire Elena is supposed to be a heroine. If anything Bonnie is the heroine of the story. I want to see Elena be strong as a vampire and act like a vampire. I don't mind if she feeds on people or even kills people with cause. I hope with Damon gone the story for her will focus more on her being a vampire and less on trying to be someone to please Stefan and Caroline's judgemental natures.

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Cattitude I do like your point about what you like more about the Originals. It's darker, edgier and just more engaging. BUT the reasons why vampires are so much more free in TO is because it's in New Orleans. It's a microcosm where supernatural forces are allowed to be more free and we did see that humans can inflict damage if they are so inclined. There Marcel created a society where vampires do what they want and there is a hierarchy with them on top. The witches were only under his influence because of Davina's abbility to track them down and and their magic was diminished since it's held in her.

 

The same when they went New York in TVD where vampires thrive because they won't be in danger of attracting the wrong kind of attention even if they behave less prudently. The point I am making about killing at the drop of a hat is that it goes against self-preservation instincts when a vampire is somewhere where the rules are not as forgiving. I mean for a millenium there was a rumor of a vampire hunter who fed on vampires, witches who can easily kill vampires, etc. it makes no sense to me to be that reckless and so I assume that most vampires would be actually annoyed if one of them behaved stupidly near their "territory" and would frown upon it.

 

Back to Elena, I don't think she has been killing needlessly or anything like that. It was in relation with her not even being annoyed at what Damon did to Aarob's family and then killign Aaron. And "Vampire Elena" in my head is not meant to be someone else entirely as has the show established since the first change with transition completed. And I don't think she is that different, in my head Elena started acting like she would have right off the bat after the change when she flipped her switch back on. I did expect that things would change and she would have a wider sense of what's acceptable since she has been in a kill or be killed mindset for so long and has lost too many people being "compassion and kind" or whatever. Which is why I had no problem seing her kill Jesse. He was a threat, I felt sorry for him but he had to go. If the show had established from the beginning that she was morally ambiguous and really cared more about the effect on her romantic relationships than anything else then I wouldn't criticise her Damon blind spot. BUT the show (not Elena herself) and the TPTB always reference her compassionate and selfless nature as her strongest characteristics. So it is a bit weird that when she turns a vampire atht goes away. Because either a) they are changing the rules of vampire transitions (= inconsistent writing), b) saying that Damon is influencing her personality (which would suck, I like her having her own mind) or c) that all along she was like that and was pretending which is then super shady. And c) would destroy the whole premise of so many people dying for her beacuse they believed she was such a good person who appreciates and recipractes loyalty and sacrifice. Heck, the whole reason why it would make sense for the brothers to relive a stupid triangle is that her love is soo worth it, oh so pure that they can deal with it. That it's better to have loved and lost her than nothing (which was re-itirated in the finale during The Speech).

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To me the beat that was missed regarding Aaron with Damon and Elena was the discussion about why it was wrong and working through it. The writers were too superficial about it this season which wouldn't have happened in past seasons. Instead they just made it about how attracted they were to each other that they couldn't help themselves. That really isn't true to their long term relationship.

 

The overarching thread of Eena and Damons relationship from season 1 is unconditional love. They both love each other no matter what. It doesn't mean you condone everything someone does, but you love them so much that you can work past it. In past seasons they would discuss and get past things this season it was kind of skipped over like they just were all about physical attraction.

I always felt that Elena loved Damon, but as a human was too afraid of those feelings so she'd stay with Stefan whom she also loved though not as strongly as the "safe" choice. The show told us when she became sired to Damon that human Elena did love him that much or she wouldn't have been sired to him b/c it so rare to happen which to me season 3 really showed she loved Damon. I also think the stupid doppelspelled thing was to show without that Elena would have long ago chosen Damon even as a human. Not that she didn't love Stefan but it was more teenaged puppy love.

 

As I orginally said I think Elena isn't that good and never has been, but her friends superimposed these high expectations on her and she strived to live up to them, then she became a vampire and more of her natural personality that wasn't ever THAT good came out.  Her friends chose to put her on a pedestal more than she ASKED for it. I don't think she was pretending, but just trying to be someone they told her to be not her true self.

 

I really want vampire Elena to come into herself in season 6.  She progressed some in season 4 but not really much at all in season 5.

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To me the beat that was missed regarding Aaron with Damon and Elena was the discussion about why it was wrong and working through it. The writers were too superficial about it this season which wouldn't have happened in past seasons. Instead they just made it about how attracted they were to each other that they couldn't help themselves. That really isn't true to their long term relationship.

As I orginally said I think Elena isn't that good and never has been, but her friends superimposed these high expectations on her and she strived to live up to them, then she became a vampire and more of her natural personality that wasn't ever THAT good came out.  Her friends chose to put her on a pedestal more than she ASKED for it. I don't think she was pretending, but just trying to be someone they told her to be not her true self.

I really like those points.

The writers really should just get their story straight (her friends always blabbing on about her goodness: I see it as the writers doing the lazy No show just tell). I mean this is ridiculous. Even Damon is taking away from her choice by saying he is corrupting her instead of just thinking that her values are changing.

As fo being good or not, I just find it strange that they were trying so hard to make us buy that. I mean in the books she is not originally good, she tries to be good for Stefan. Could have made for an interesting story, goody two shoes vampire and Queen Bitch human. Though they probably thought that she would appear unsympathetic and then people would have hated her really early on. The problem here is you have to assume too many things, that should not be happening so far into a series. We should know the characters better instead of them giving us whiplash.

That brings up an interesting parallel between Elena and Stefan. They both had people around them that just pushed "being good" on them without actually wanting or warranting such attention. Further reason why Stelena should stay 6ft under ground, actually make that sunk into a massive block of cement and then dumped into the Atlantic.

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I did expect that things would change and she would have a wider sense of what's acceptable since she has been in a kill or be killed mindset for so long and has lost too many people being "compassion and kind" or whatever.

 

When I think back to the people she's lost, it's never been an issue of her mercy overrruling her better judgement.  Every time the Mystic Falls gang has lost was because they were simply outgunned or outsmarted.  Katherine had too many backup plans, Klaus was too brutal and strong to reason with, and Esther was able to reach beyond the grave to turn Alaric into a vampire hunter.  There's not much Elena could've done against any of those threats that she didn't try.  In the end, her enemies were simply too strong.  In fact, the one time Elena does act properly ruthless with Kol ends up backfiring.  Klaus tries to kill them, Jeremy dies and Silas comes back.

 

My main problem with Elena is I don't see her allure.  She's beautiful but I find it hard to believe that 150 year old vampires would be just that entranced by her.  She's not wise beyond her years and she's not particularly kind so I don't really get what stands out about her compared to other women the Salvatores have met.

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I know these people are vampires but this isn't the kind of show that writes antiheroes well. I am already pissed at all of them with their pack mentality and inability to think about anyone else but themselves. We are supposed to think of them as our heroes to root for, the writers have always been straightforward about that, they just suck at writing it. This show sometimes has a schizophrenic attitude towards what is morally acceptable and what isn't.

 

The problem with Elena intentionally not being especially good, kind and amazing is that people have been sacrificing themselves for her or been willing to do that for seasons. The show has always portrayed her as special and pure, and they can't really go back on that even now because then the whole premise of everybody always wanting to save Elena/help Elena/make Elena happy falls apart. 

 

Well, even more so than it already has. These days they seem to think it's enough to state a couple of times that she's good and at the same time portray her as a hypocritical, selfish and egocentric narcissist.

 

I really think the only way to salvage the character at this point is to completely sever the triangle and give them all space. Elena focused on her brother and friends could go ways to improve her, or maybe have her fall for a human guy. That might give her a new perspective and would allow them explore her character in a new setting than perpetual damsel in distress. Damon would benefit too from maybe realising that there are other girls around who might not even have slept with his brother too. 

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Please no do NOT put vampire Elena with a human. ugh

 

I really haven't see any of them protect Elena except Damon this season. I guess Stefan a little, but for the most part they all worked together to save eachother. I just don't see any of them except Damon treating her as more special than the rest this season.

 

When she was human yes they treated her with extra care, but since she became a vampire not so much.  And in return I guess she really has no use for them much this season either. I always felt their treatment of her drove her narcissism to some extent.

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 Damon would benefit too from maybe realising that there are other girls around who might not even have slept with his brother too. 

*Gasp*! YOU MEAN THERE ARE WOMEN IN THIS WORLD STEFAN HASN'T HAD SEX WITH THAT DAMON COULD DATE!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? O.o?

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My main problem with Elena is I don't see her allure.  She's beautiful but I find it hard to believe that 150 year old vampires would be just that entranced by her.  She's not wise beyond her years and she's not particularly kind so I don't really get what stands out about her compared to other women the Salvatores have met.

 

It's the hair.

She's got great hair.

 

Does anyone really get why anyone else is so entranced by the person they're madly in love with?  I find myself questioning many relationships around me and why they are with their significant other.  And most of the time I don't even have a "well she's really beautiful" excuse to latch on to.  You love who you love, I guess.

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I agree that love doesn't have to make sense and you can't really explain it and all, but Elena being considered this great love and so hard (read: near impossible) to get over for three of the show's male characters and being the object of even Elijah's admiration is kind of weird. She's really not all that. Althoug when you think about it only Matt actually loved Elena without loving Katherine first and then latching on to her as the anti-Katherine (because, let's not kid ourselves, that is totally what Stefan, Damon and Elijah did). I guess Elena benefited from that direct comparison because otherwise...I don't know. Seasons 1-2 Elena was a person I could men falling for and friends rallying around (although they always took it a tad too far with the special snowflakiness). But these days, she's kind of insufferable. When she made that speech to Stefan about how she really needed him to be okay so she wouldn't have to feel guilty anymore, I kind of wanted him to turn around and walk away right then and there. Or when Aaron was all worried and sad about Jesse and she (who killed Jesse herself) was basically all, uhum, yeah, whatever, Damon's not answering my texts!!! Or how when they told her about Jeremy being troubled all she could think about was sexing up her boyfriend (who, incidentally, had just tried to kill Jeremy like a week ago). 

 

When she went to Katherine on her "deathbed" and brought up her much hailed compassion and how she didn't want to lose it I kind of expected Katherine to laugh in her face. But the show is totally unironcally portraying her like that. Like Elena's brilliant plan to kill herself with Damon just to be with him, because fuck Bonnie (the extra pain) and Jeremy (if something goes wrong), was supposed to be a "hell yeah!" moment. 

Edited by KatWay
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I was totally with you until you brought up Bonnie.  LOL  

Bonnie has never been concerned with removing herself from anyone else's life either.  She's been killed twice now, both times causing Jeremy to flip the fuck out.  Admittedly I don't like Bonnie though so....I don't much care about her extra pain.

 

I don't necessarily think Elena's motivations for killing herself were solely to be with Damon (although I can certainly see where people view it that way), I like to think she wanted to help with getting Stefan back.

 

Everyone on this show always wants to be the martyr.

Edited by CaughtOnTape
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Though they probably thought that she would appear unsympathetic and then people would have hated her really early on.

 

 

And you have people like me who still hated her early on. 

 

When she found out what was going on, she basically said that she wanted to get them back (and then for Stefan to get his memory back, and then for him to get over his PTSD) because she had been happy. Now she felt guilty, and she didn't want to feel guilty anymore.

 

 

Oh best moment ever. "Please be okay Stefan or at least say you are because I can't be okay if you're not..." And you know I'm sure Plec and company believed that line would showcase Elena's so called amazing selflessness and great humanity when instead for someone like me, who already hated her ass, it was just more evidence of her self-absorption and it being all about her. And in the midst of this speech to Stefan she AGAIN had to remind him how happy she was all summer, how she was having the summer of her life because again, what Stefan really needed to hear and be reminded of is how all while he was drowning and dying over and over, she and Damon were having gross furniture breaking sex all over the house he and Damon share together. Like I just couldn't with that  moron.

 

As I said above, I always disliked Elena. Certainly the hate has gotten stronger in more recent seasons where I'm at the point right now where I literally just want someone to punch her hard in the face everytime she speaks but I've never liked Elena. Yes, she wasn't the useless whiny drip that Bella Swan was but I always found her slightly self-involved. My first annoyance with Elena came when she and Stefan double dated with Caroline and Matt and she spent half the night going down memory lane with Matt. Matt was douchy for his actions but she was just as guilty and of course she played the wide-eyed "what, who me..." with Caroline when she mentioned it. 

 

But one of the things that most annoyed me about Elena were her interactions with Damon and exactly why I avoided the show for a long time knowing that nothing good could come from a premise that was so heavily based on a love triangle. The characters are ALWAYS, ALWAYS ruined to service the triangle. And in my opinion, long before Stefan the Ripper showed up, Elena became a vampire and everything else, to service the eventual Damon and Elena pairing that would happen, Elena was made far too accepting and passive I thought with Damon and his advances. It may seem silly but that really is the main thing that made me dislike Elena - I thought she was way too accepting and friendly with Damon's behavior which ranged from constantly eye-sexing her, making inappropriate comments to her, shoving his naked body at her, trying to kiss her and more. 

 

Yeah she would eye-roll at him and yeah she'd say repeatedly how much she loved Stefan but I felt like Damon's actions remained as they were because she was far too accepting of them. Which is why I've noted that she's been enabling his shit long before she became a vampire. Yeah she said she couldn't forgive him for what he did to Jeremy after he admitted he didn't know Jeremy was wearing the ring but how long did that last. Then she forgave him feeding her his blood when Klaus was out to kill her even after her saying she didn't want to be a vampire and him knowing that. I just honestly always kind of found Elena to be kind of a shitty girlfriend.

 

But I do agree with those that back then though she seemed to care more about her friends and family and as much as she loved Stefan, it wasn't all about him. Elena with Damon has literally become all about her relationship and him. Everything comes back to their relationship and how supposedly bad they are for each other but she just can't stay away from him. The season finale was just the worse culmination of this - that Elena was willing to go on a suicide mission that there was no absolute guarantee they would survive and possibly leave Jeremy all alone because she just had to be with Damon was telling, then she didn't care how it was hard on Bonnie because she was another person Bonnie had to let go through her and then her complete and utter lack of giving a shit when Stefan lay dead on the couch next to Caroline. This being the same Elena who supposedly has all this great humanity and who was all tears and giving a dying kiss to Damon while she was with Stefan back in S2. But now Stefan's death didn't even warrant a blimp on her radar. 

Edited by truthaboutluv
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I don't think I'm doing a rewatch for several years, but I'm sure my feelings about her in those early seasons will be colored by the way I feel about her now. I did love Elena, but I could always see why others didn't. I just believed her when she professed her love for her friends and family, and I saw her try to sacrifice herself, try to fight when she had no supernatural ability to do so, try to scheme and plot and deal--not to save herself, but to protect other people.

 

She wasn't perfect--that Matt and Caroline double date is a real sore spot for me, because she's so oblivious to everyone else's feelings. But it doesn't seem malicious, just sort of clueless and myopic. I forgave her for that stuff back then, because I think she was still in transition from her old life to her new life, and reminiscing with Matt was sort of part of that holding on to the Elena whose parents hadn't died. I still felt sad for her then, so she had my sympathy even when she made mistakes. They never seemed to come from a selfish place, to me. 

 

But yeah, that's all over. I think one possible reading of her character is that her natural selfishness was ~heightened~ by becoming a vampire, and before that, she only seemed self-sacrificing because she was actually sort of ambivalent about living.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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But yeah, that's all over. I think one possible reading of her character is that her natural selfishness was ~heightened~ by becoming a vampire, and before that, she only seemed self-sacrificing because she was actually sort of ambivalent about living.

HaHa. I don't dislike Elena but this was very funny.

 

I've always thought she had a little mean girl in her. I mean the way she treated Stefan by her interactions with Damon def made her a bad girlfriend, and the way she treat Damon(while maybe deserved b/c he was snaking his brother's girlfriend) was also kind of shady.

I always thought Alaric had a good read on her. He loved her and helped look out for her, but he would call her out on her manipulations and didn't treat her as incapable.

 

I do feel this season she wasn't very self-sacrificing and I'm not sure where that went. Even last season as a vampire she still was willing to give up the cure for others, so I don't think becoming a vampire or even loving Damon erased that. Hopefully season 6 will repair her a little.

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Elena as a character was pretty much destroyed by the triangle of doom - From the second Elena started her wishy-washy, I love them both (like to string them both along) so long as it's convenient for me, behaviour I started to dislike her. That said Season 5 reeaaaallly managed to take the last good remains of the character and set them on fire. "Stefan, I need you to tell me you're okay (even though you're clearly not) so I can go back to guilt-free banging your brother! Let me tell you again just how much fun I had when you drowned in that lake." "Damon, you killed innocent Aaron, who was sort of my friend? Ah, shucks, come over here and let's bang again. It's all Katherine's fault anyways." "I'll stick to your side like glue, Damon, even if it means Bonnie has to go through extra pain when I pass through her! Jeremy probably won't mind if this suicide mission turns out deadly after all."

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Elena as a character was pretty much destroyed by the triangle of doom - From the second Elena started her wishy-washy, I love them both (like to string them both along) so long as it's convenient for me, behaviour I started to dislike her. That said Season 5 reeaaaallly managed to take the last good remains of the character and set them on fire. "Stefan, I need you to tell me you're okay (even though you're clearly not) so I can go back to guilt-free banging your brother! Let me tell you again just how much fun I had when you drowned in that lake." "Damon, you killed innocent Aaron, who was sort of my friend? Ah, shucks, come over here and let's bang again. It's all Katherine's fault anyways." "I'll stick to your side like glue, Damon, even if it means Bonnie has to go through extra pain when I pass through her! Jeremy probably won't mind if this suicide mission turns out deadly after all."

 

I never really liked Elena but I respected her in the earlier seasons because she didn't let her life revolve around her romance with Stefan. I liked when she said she didn't want to be a vampire because she wasn't ready to decide if she wanted to give up any hope of having a family and I thought that was great. However Elena has always been self-centered and a crappy friend (she bad mouths Caroline behind her back all the time and never takes her feelings into consideration) and she got worse when she became a vampire but WOW did she become the unbearable in season 5. That scene when she's talking to Stefan about her needing him to be ok because she doesn't want to feel guilty anymore because she got to be in love and had the summer of her dreams while he was drowning in a safe. I've never been more disgusted with a character in my life, because this is a character I'm supposed to root for.

 

What really pisses me off though is she was probably at her worst in 6x01 and then they compelled away her memories and I thought "oh maybe this is how they'll start redeeming her" and then they made her worse! Everything that happens around her now comes back to her. She made rescuing Bonnie about her asking Bonnie if Damon is a good boyfriend. Caroline's mother is dying of cancer and it's about her realizing her life is too short the not start banging Damon again. Do the writers think this is good characterization or do they think we're all blind to Delena's "epic love" that we won't notice? Because I'm not blinded by their toxic love story and I can't even fathom how anyone thinks this displays Elena as a strong character worth giving a crap about.

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I recently started rewatching season 1 on Netflix, and the difference in her then & now is astonishing.  For a high school student I found her to be incredibly mature & it's really sad to see how she regressed over the years.  The real kicker was when she was having a discussion with Jenna about men (Elena about Stefan & Jenna about Logan Fell), she actually said something to the effect of refusing to let a man dictate how she lives her life.  Fast forward a few years, that's all she does!

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I used to like Elena just fine. It was pretty much when she turned vampire that I started finding her insufferable. Quite a juxtaposition from Caroline, who is infinitely more awesome as a vampire than she was as a human.

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Your list is tendentious. If you list it like that you should add Kai to the list for Elena, for example. Maroline was a consolation price for Matt. Daroline was rape. The only two real cases of boys crushing their asses off on Caroline are Tyler and Klaus, and even so Tyler walked out on Caroline. Right now obviously it's Steroline and I feel this should be her endgame.

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Your list is tendentious. If you list it like that you should add Kai to the list for Elena, for example. Maroline was a consolation price for Matt. Daroline was rape. The only two real cases of boys crushing their asses off on Caroline are Tyler and Klaus, and even so Tyler walked out on Caroline. Right now obviously it's Steroline and I feel this should be her endgame.

I completely disagree. I think the OP is arguing desirability and when it comes to who the writers and the TVDverse think is more desirable, Caroline takes the cake over Elena any day. Matt, Tyler, Klaus, Jesse, Kol (if Klaus had let him) now Stefan I mean c'mon. It matters little the status of the relationships now the point is they all fell for the charms of Caroline Forbes,

Elena can't boast that. The most powerful vampire of all time turned into a freaking Kewpie doll for her even after she was complicit in trying to kill him and his brother and spent the rest of his time in Mystic Falls trying to win her over. That's glittery hoo-ha at it's finest.

Elena's had Damon and Stefan but one scarcely knows how much that has to do with an epic doppelganger whom they were basically created from and Damon was obsessed with for 100yrs. She's also had Matt who got over her quick quick once he fell head over heels with (surprise surprise) Caroline.

Technically Matt is the only one that could be tried and true proved to love Elena for Elena without any other weird, supernatural or kinky complications.

I also completely disagree about Kai, he hasn't shown anything more than boredom and irritation with her since well before he met her. He tortured the crap out of her to figure out his powers and when he got Luke's humanity he had no interest in apologizing or expressing remorse like he had for Jo or Bonnie. The field of fucks that Kai gives for Elena is entirely barren.

Edited by slayer2

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I have a question I hope someone can answer regarding Elena's Sleeping Beauty spell. If Elena has to wait until Bonnie grows old and dies in order to be with Damon, wouldn't Elena just wake up the same age as Bonnie? Did the spell include Elena remaining 20 years old (or whatever she currently is) while being "asleep?"

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Thanks, Carrie Ann!  It makes sense based on how the characters talk, but in this universe that means nothing :)

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Apparently the plan is for Elena to beauty sleep until Bonnie's death whereupon she will magically wakeup in suspended youth, Damon will feed off her and they'll both live a wonderful human life together and then die. I don't know where this plan leaves sad brother/brother-in-law Stefan but at least he'll have Damon's bourbon, which seemed to comfort him the last time.

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My favorite part of this was the assumption that any of them would live for 60 years, vampires or not. Yeah, Caroline, I'll talk to you later! BRB, Damon! I mean, they live in Mystic Falls. Good chance Elena will wake up and no one will be left. Honestly, I would kind of love it if the show ended that way. Just Elena and a bunch of diaries. 

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Hahaha that would be sick and continuity. I mean they've each died at least once thus far, it's pretty insane to believe that Elena will come back to anyone especially when Damon is such a smartmouth and PW has been bored of the series for a few seasons now.

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What was your favorite episode Nina was in through Season 6? Comment and explain why. I'll go first: 

 

4x23 (Season 4 finale) was my favorite because of the Katherine/Elena epic battle for death scene at the end. I can't imagine how hard it must be for Nina to play two characters with opposite personalities. Elena is so innocent and Katherine is so guilty. Nina did such an amazing job portraying and staying loyal to both Elena and Katherine's characters. 

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