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Green Arrow In Comics

Lantern7

By Lantern7
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lemotomato
lemotomato

If we're going with how much we owe the comics, let's be more specific. If it weren't for Christopher Nolan and his version of Batman, we wouldn't be here. If Berlanti had tried to sell the comics ver

lemotomato
lemotomato

I don't hate comic books. I hate it when I'm told I can't watch the show or I'm not allowed to like the show or I'm not a real fan of the show just because I didn't read the comics first. Or that I'm

wonderwall
wonderwall

LOL I don't get the "Arrow is just a soap opera/ romance show" argument... Now even more if the whole GA/BC rebirth spoiler above is acceptable.  That's just terribly cheesy and terribly written

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

That line to Helena about caring about Felicity like he cares about her was so awkward. I had to read it a few times. I get why they put it in given the cliffhanger ending, but it reads really weird. 

 

I didn't think it was awkward so much as just a strange thing to say. I get that he was trying to lull her into some kind of sense of importance in order to get her to help him get Felicity back and not pull any tricks, but why would she believe him? Unless, I guess, maybe she didn't. She's a little twisted, so I guess we'll just have to wait and see how the next part plays out.

CabotCove

CabotCove

(edited)
Who is writing The Flash Season Zero? That's a huge 40% drop between the first and second issues, and another third gone by February..

 

Its a new comic book, most people were just sampling the first issue before dropping it. Like with most TV pilots.

 

Arrow's drop is far worse because the show is in its third season, fans by now are invested in these characters yet they still cant get them to pick up the comic book or keep reading it. 

Edited by Conell
KirkB

KirkB

(edited)

The thing is, I imagine the comic fans are going to stick with the actual Green Arrow books, regardless of whether they watch the show or not, and pay little attention to the TV connected books, while the fans of the show aren't going to try and get into the decades long history of the real books but like the connected to the show stuff. It's basically two different audiences isn't it? I mean, I'm sure there is SOME crossover but still....

Edited by KirkB
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Ariah

Ariah

How was Quiver?  I'm interested since it was written by Kevin Smith but I've never been able to get feedback from GA fans on that particular series.

It was pretty good and the mystery was decent - it combined a lot of characters from mundane and the occult. For instance, I met with Etrigan for the first time. I know, I should have read about Etrigan earlier.

 

There were great character moments, especially for Ollie. Some plot points under the tag:

Just my opinion, the occult and the final outcome didn't really match the beginning of the story. Suddenly I found myself reading Rosemary's Baby. The supernatural creature that appears just didn't fit the Green Arrow mythos for me. Then again, it was a story about resurection and lost souls, so...

 

On the whole, a pleasurable read.

kismet

kismet

He actually BOUGHT that bottle? Goodness. 

 

I kind of liked the previous canon version MG presented with Oliver drinking it with Felicity after the Undertaking on her birthday, but this is cute, I'll take it. 

This is why I need to take up archery, so I have a nifty way to open stuff when I don't have a corkscrew handy. Both versions sound cute, so Ill take them. That bed looks more like a cot, not quite as comfy as I imagined in my head.

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strikera0

strikera0

I take it someone isn't all that satisfied with the sales figures for the Arrow 2.5 comics considering that MG is now begging Olicity shippers on Twitter to buy them:

 

Ariah

Ariah

(edited)

 

 

I don't get the arrow as bottle-opener though.  The cork is screwed into the bottle, there's not way he could shoot the cork out.

He could shoot half the neck of the bottle out (or 2/3). We used to do that back in the days when we couldn't find a corckscrew - cut the neck of the bottle with a good knife (or breaking the neck off after cutting the glass, to be more precise).

Edited by Ariah
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

I take it someone isn't all that satisfied with the sales figures for the Arrow 2.5 comics considering that MG is now begging Olicity shippers on Twitter to buy them:

Oddly enough MG staed not too long ago that sales for 2.5 comics were so good they were already planning where to go next (3.5).

Not sure if something has changed recently.

Chaser

Chaser

I really think they thought they were being clever with the comics. They had to have know that some shippers wouldn't be thrilled with the love triangle, regardless of the third party was popular or not. So they mapped out the comics to be lite on Olicity when Oliver and Felicity were in a better place on the show and then when they kicked up the Ray and Felicity and the Olivity Angst, they release their most Olicity-heavy content.

Sunshine

Sunshine

I noticed the same thing @10Eleven12.  They ramped up Olicity in the comic right around the same time Felicity told Oliver she didn't want to be a woman he loved IIRC. 

 

I don't think MG is pleading/begging for people to buy the comic.  I think it's his form of teasing or playing with a certain fan base.  He promised to release the S2 deleted kiss scene if they trended something or another.  They did.  He released it.  Then one of the Oliciters suggested buying his book "Overwatch" as a thank you. It sold out on Amazon PDQ. This scene is in the comic because he has been asked about it repeatedly.  It's his way of saying I did what you asked. It's your turn now.  I guess I don't see why it should bother anyone.  Buy or don't buy.  If you do you might get similar things.  If not maybe they'll go back to focusing on SS or the next job only. 

 

I get resenting that it is in the comic when you want to see it on screen but without the comic we were probably never going to see it.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

It doesn't bother me that he's asking people to buy it, it's bothering me that he wrote to "vote with your dollars." Vote for what? Is it some kind of message that they'll only keep Olicity as the main pairing if the comic sales are high enough? I thought they were supposed to be writing their own story apart from what the fanbase wanted? 

 

And yeah, MG had been asked repeatedly about the wine, but he also answered that question: Oliver gave Felicity the wine the day after the Undertaking, and they shared it on his birthday or whatever. I don't blame him for wanting to make a little bank off of it, but he's the one who left that tidbit dangling, so if people repeatedly ask him about it, serves him right, haha. 

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lemotomato

lemotomato

I get resenting that it is in the comic when you want to see it on screen but without the comic we were probably never going to see it.

My problem is that if I don't see it on screen, it doesn't count as far as I'm concerned. 90% of why I like Olicity is because of SA and EBR. 

 

Sure, it's nice to see Olicity in the comics because it's officially show canon. But they'll never mention comic events on the show anyway, so it's as relevant as fanfiction, (which is often better written than the comics) and I can get for free, minus some time spent sending feedback to the author. 

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Sunshine

Sunshine

My problem is that if I don't see it on screen, it doesn't count as far as I'm concerned. 90% of why I like Olicity is because of SA and EBR. 

 

Sure, it's nice to see Olicity in the comics because it's officially show canon. But they'll never mention comic events on the show anyway, so it's as relevant as fanfiction, (which is often better written than the comics) and I can get for free, minus some time spent sending feedback to the author. 

I agree completely about Olicity, SA & EBR.   

 

They do mention things from the comics ocassionally but not often.  They don't appear to be Olicity related though.  The female (Talibah) was in the comics and was shown in 3.16.  She was the one Ra's was explaining footwork to.  There is another story pertaining to using the Lazarus Pit without permission that said to be continued in S3.  I am assuming it will be completed in 3.20 or 3.21.  That said, it's like all the other easter eggs on the show, you don't have to read the comics to watch the show.

 

I don't read fan fiction anymore because I found -FOR ME-it distorts my understanding of the story being told on screen.  I love Oliver & Felicity but I don't think the show considers their relationship to be as important (or maybe I should say any more important than others) as the on-line community does.      

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kismet

kismet

There are very few ways I can protest the direction of the show, and since intelligent tumblr/twitter messages from all around the world with valid criticisms do not seem to sink into MG's head then not buying the comics is the only financial way I can think of to make my opinion known. I will not be bribed into buying comics, just because he wants to have his cake and eat it to. Never negotiate away your power chip, Olivia Pope taught me that. If MG wants me to buy into his comics, put some of the good stuff (not just olicity, but team Arrow, Ray) on the screen and then we can talk. But I will not be manipulated into buying them, just so I can have some good moments to get me through the crap. I can use my own imagination. So I appreciate seeing the previews that people post, but honestly none of them has made me regret my decision to not buy them. And like I said, if they manage to get themselves out of this self-induced writing debacle that is season 3, I might consider buying them in the future.

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chaos is welcome

chaos is welcome

There are very few ways I can protest the direction of the show, and since intelligent tumblr/twitter messages from all around the world with valid criticisms do not seem to sink into MG's head then not buying the comics is the only financial way I can think of to make my opinion known. I will not be bribed into buying comics, just because he wants to have his cake and eat it to. Never negotiate away your power chip, Olivia Pope taught me that. If MG wants me to buy into his comics, put some of the good stuff (not just olicity, but team Arrow, Ray) on the screen and then we can talk. But I will not be manipulated into buying them, just so I can have some good moments to get me through the crap. I can use my own imagination. So I appreciate seeing the previews that people post, but honestly none of them has made me regret my decision to not buy them. And like I said, if they manage to get themselves out of this self-induced writing debacle that is season 3, I might consider buying them in the future.

This. So much this. I hate not reading them but I refuse to give them even a $1 of my money right now.

  • Love 2
tv echo

tv echo

It's a catch-22 , isn't it?  

 

If the Olicity-focused comic chapters don't sell well, then the EPs might think too few fans are interested in that pairing, thereby justifying their decision not to show more Olicity scenes on the TV show.

 

If the Olicity-focused comic chapters do sell well, then they might think they're justified in satisfying Olicity fans with the comics, while continuing to do what they're doing on the TV show.

  • Love 6
Starfish35

Starfish35

(edited)

Continuing discussion from News thread:

Is the GA/BC relationship really that iconic? Serious question here, as a non-comics reader. I'm not sure I'd ever heard of it before this show (I quit watching Smallville before their version of BC popped up). I associated Black Canary more with Birds of Prey than with Green Arrow. And I keep seeing people insist it's on a level with Lois and Clark, but I just find that really hard to believe. I mean, everyone knows about Lois and Clark, or Peter Parker and Mary Jane, whether you read comics or not, but......personally I have a hard time putting the GA/BC relationship on that level. I don't know. What do the comic book readers think?

Edited by Starfish35
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Guest

Guest

From media thread:

 

 

I'm interested in this actually. What do you guys think makes an iconic comic book pairing? 

 

 

A pairing that everyone can recognize, even those who have never read the comics. It transcends all media really. To me that's Clark/Lois. I've never read the comics but I know about them. I've seen numerous incarnations of them over the years. I have literally never heard of Green Arrow or BC until I watched this show. 

wonderwall

wonderwall

I never heard of GA or BC before the series either. So the way I see it is, if two characters aren't iconic or well known (none of the people I know who watch it knew who they were before either), then them as a couple can't be iconic and that's even with me taking into account whatever synergy there may be with the GA/BC team up. 

dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

They were a couple in the comics for a *really long time*, which is one of the reasons I think some people go with "iconic" when describing GA/BC, but yeah, any gen pop recognition they get now is due to TV, not comic book notoriety.

Ironically, the moment DC decided to really spotlight their relationship by making their wedding a big event, was also the beginning of the end of their relationsip. Because it was a bad business decision. [Numbers: http://dcwomenkickingass.tumblr.com/post/1126642826/bcgawedding] They got married in 2007, then got that god-awful co-joined GA/BC book Andrew Kreisberg wrote, and by mid-2010 they were separated and back to separate books. And they haven't really interacted in the comics since.

And even amongst comic book fans, they're not unanimously accepted . The folks who love BC because of Birds of Prey tend to prefer her far faaaar away from Oliver, and were really glad when she dumped him.

Edited by dancingnancy
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Chaser

Chaser

(edited)

Honestly the whole comic argument applied to any element of the show makes me mad. You can't say Oliver and Laurel have to or will be together because of comics if you ignore the hundreds of other inconsistencies in the show. You can't say they belong together because they are the comic Green Arrow and Black Canary, if you ignore they are COMPLETELY different characters in this medium. Also, the canon argument goes both ways. Someone can say its canon because in this series they were together and got married and I can just as easily say its not canon because in this series they don't even know each other.

 

Comics are fluid universes that can be rewritten at a writers fancy. Nothing is set in stone. TV is different from Comics. I do not understand how the comic argument holds weight as fact. 

 

I get it was the original intention, and frankly I think that makes a better argument than 'comics,' but seriously…

 

Okay. Rant Over.

Edited by 10Eleven12
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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

I'm always confused on the timeline. How does Birds of Prey tie into the time when they were together?

 

It's all interconnected. Dinah dated Oliver while being a member of BoP for about a decade? BoP was created mid 90s, and they got married in 2007.

 

Dinah left BoP towards the end of Gail Simone's first run on the book, shortly before the big wedding event. Then the GA/BC book ran for two years? Two and a half? I quit that book pretty quickly, it was terrible. Anyway, when that was canceled, their story continued in the Green Arrow book for a couple of issues. The whole Prometheus stuff was happening, Oliver lied to her face, Dinah found out and left him.

 

Around that same time, the BoP book was being relaunched, with Gail Simone as the writer again. So Dinah leaving Oliver and going back to BoP was also pretty connected. And then DC imploded everything about a year later, and launched the New52.

 

Trivia: DC greenlighted Smallville going full-on Chloe/Oliver pretty much around the same time they started separating Oliver and Dinah in the comics: late 2009-early 2010.

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Continuing discussion from News thread:

Is the GA/BC relationship really that iconic? Serious question here, as a non-comics reader.

I don't think so, I'd put it more on the level of Jean Grey/Scott Summers. I really don't think many non comic fans knew about them before the X-Movies.

Both GA and BC are C/D list characters, the characters themselves aren't Iconic the way Superman, Lois Lane, The Bat Family or Spider-Man are. I find it hard to imagine that the relationship is iconic when the characters themselves aren't.

In fact, MG and/or AJK comment on that a few times. I remember reading an interview where they talked about having more freedom to deviate from canon with GA versus Batman or Supeman.

Trivia: DC greenlighted Smallville going full-on Chloe/Oliver pretty much around the same time they started separating Oliver and Dinah in the comics: late 2009-early 2010.

I remember that. I remember reading interviews where the EPs talked about having to get DC to sign off on the pairing. IIRC they also had to get DC to sign off on ending the series with Chlollie married with baby (on the way). Edited by Morrigan2575
  • Love 5
dtissagirl

dtissagirl

(edited)

I remember that. I remember reading interviews where the EPs talked about having to get DC to sign off on the pairing. IIRC they also had to get DC to sign off on ending the series with Chlollie married with baby (on the way).

 

Yup. And because DC is super mega wanky, they didn't full on commit there. Which is why Oliver isn't in the flashfoward to 6 years later. I mean, the show made it as obvious as they could have in the scene [Chloe is wearing both a wedding band and an engagement ring, the kid looks like he could be their kids, there's a close-up on a toy bow and arrow, and the carpet on the floor has actual targets in it]. But they had to work around it because DC didn't give them a full greenlight.

 

Then they gave BQM the OK to write Chloe/Ollie in the Smallville comics as married and having a baby. And midway through the run, they ordered him to write them off the book. Rumor has it, it was because of Arrow, and DC being forever terrified of multiple versions of the same character. Then when Laurel/Oliver imploded I figure DC saw no problem in letting Oliver be paired with someone else on a digital first low-selling book that was about to end. So they let BQM put Chloe/Ollie back in the final run of the comics, so they got a legit happily ever after.

 

DC Comics: a summary.

Edited by dancingnancy
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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

Yeah I know a few Chlollie fans on Live Journal who followed the S11 Comics. I remember DC apparently ordering Chlollie off the comic. They later allowed Chloe back but Oliver was still MIA. Oliver finally came back and BQM ended the series with Chlollie having a baby boy. In both cases, I remember BQM saying he'd bring the characters back as soon as he got the OK.

Edited by Morrigan2575
nksarmi

nksarmi

(edited)

I would call Green Arrow and Black Canary iconic in terms of the comic books because of how long running.  They had a team up comic book so that says to me that they go to the point where when you think of one, you think of the other.  Plus the pairing made it into children's cartoons because watching JLA/JLAU with my kids is how I know they are a couple. 

 

So, are they are a couple like Superman and Louis Lane/Peter Parker and Mary Jane? No.  But they are a couple along the lines of Batman and Catwoman and Jean Gray and Cyclops.  Basically, so well known that if have them in the same setting, fans will expect them to be together.  There are other couples like Rogue and Gambit and Storm and Black Panther that are less well known and probably wouldn't cause as much of a ripple if writers ignored them.

 

I honestly believe that the writers will always considered it a possibility to go back to Oliver and Laurel in the end. I'm not saying they will do it - they could go and kill Oliver off by the end of the show.  I just don't think it's off the table for them at all.

Edited by nksarmi
Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

Except of course that Jean/Scott aren't iconic. Most non comic readers never even heard of them before 2000. Hell, the X-Movies pretty much setup Jean/Logan as the epic OTP! Not Jean/Scott.

Marvel doesn't really have Iconic characters other than Spider-Man and maybe The Hulk.

Except of course that Jean/Scott aren't iconic. Most non comic readers never even heard of them before 2000. Hell, the X-Movies pretty much setup Jean/Logan as the epic OTP! Not Jean/Scott.

Marvel doesn't really have Iconic characters other than Spider-Man and maybe The Hulk.

lemotomato

lemotomato

(edited)

So, are they are a couple like Superman and Louis Lane/Peter Parker and Mary Jane? No.  But they are a couple along the lines of Batman and Catwoman and Jean Gray and Cyclops.  Basically, so well known that if have them in the same setting, fans will expect them to be together.  There are other couples like Rogue and Gambit and Storm and Black Panther that are less well known and probably wouldn't cause as much of a ripple if writers ignored them.

 

I honestly believe that the writers will always considered it a possibility to go back to Oliver and Laurel in the end. I'm not saying they will do it - they could go and kill Oliver off by the end of the show.  I just don't think it's off the table for them at all.

 

But Batman/Catwoman just heavily flirted a lot and weren't ever actually together, were they? And Jean Gray/Cyclops had their own spinoff comic in the 90's but now have been broken up for years, and often shown not together (or if they're together, they're also interested in other people) in the movies and cartoons. My point is, "because comics!" is a really bad reason to justify why a comic-based couple are endgame, since there is no endgame in comics, as they go on continuously reboot all the time.

Except of course that Jean/Scott aren't iconic. Most non comic readers never even heard of them before 2000. Hell, the X-Movies pretty much setup Jean/Logan as the epic OTP! Not Jean/Scott.

Marvel doesn't really have Iconic characters other than Spider-Man and maybe The Hulk.

Except of course that Jean/Scott aren't iconic. Most non comic readers never even heard of them before 2000. Hell, the X-Movies pretty much setup Jean/Logan as the epic OTP! Not Jean/Scott.

Marvel doesn't really have Iconic characters other than Spider-Man and maybe The Hulk.

Jean/Scott was the OTP in the '90s X-Men animated series and even in the X-Men Evolution cartoon in the early 2000's. Anyone that knew of the X-Men knew about Jean/ Scott, although even when they were together, they flirted with other characters (Wolverine and Psylocke, respectively). I think they're probably the best comparison to GA/BC, because they're both well-known (but not iconic) couples in their respective universes, were together for a long time, were not actually the "perfect" pairings their fans want everyone to believe they were, and have been broken up for years in the comics. 

Edited by lemotomato
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Genki

Genki

Non comic book reader here. But I like comic characters in TV and movies because I think in order for it to work, the writing has to be stronger than comics, there is less forgiveness in a live action medium.

 

Actually I knew Jean/Scott from the X-Men cartoons in the 90's. Green Arrow/Black Canary not so much until BoP and then I had to do independent (internet) research, therefore, I think their status is lower than Jean/Scott.

 

But I really agree with everyone who has the position that the comics are too inconsistent with the constant rewrites and reboots & book run changes.

I would find the whole thing completely frustrating. 

 

As a side note I've always been fond of Batman/Catwoman from TV, movies, etc (I can't NOT watch a batman movie, which mean I will have to watch Man of Steel *sigh*). I had no idea that Talia/Bruce was a thing and that they had a kid together until these forums.

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