S01.E04: Family Interference

[bichonblitz]

That slumber party with only Cait and Candis was all kinds of awkward. 

 

Khloe and Cait were never close. Let's not forget how she treated her when she was getting married to Lamar. She completely left her out of the news, and waited until the very last minute to ask her to walk her down the aisle, as if she really didn't want to ask her at all. So now to act like they were always close is such BS. She didn't care about Cait any more before the transition than she does now. 

 

All the Kardashians including the Jenner girls treated Cait like shit. Kris allowed it. Before the transition, they were always making fun of her, her hair, her clothes, she could do nothing right. Kris relegated her to the garage to play with her toys.  It was painful to watch. The marriage should have ended years before it did.  Cait should keep her mouth shut about Kris, move forward and not discuss her life with Kris in front of the camera's. Kim and Khloe need to keep their mouths shut and mind their own business regarding their mothers marriage.  I guess they're not done with us yet,  judging from the preview we will we subjected to Kris and her tears next week. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by bichonblitz

[Rigoletto22]

The segments with Khloe and Kim were so irritating.  BOTH of them have allowed their nasty divorces to play out in the media!  Also, I'm fairly certain that Caitlyn's statement about probably still being with Kris today, was originally said during the Diane Sawyer interview, so why is Kim suddenly having a problem with it when Caitlyn repeated it in Vanity Fair?  What they're are really pissed off about is that *they* no longer control the narrative.  If Kris feels snubbed, she has her own show to address it, or she could - I dunno - pick up the phone and talk to Caitlyn directly instead of sending in her henchmen.  

Yes of course they allowed their divorces to play out in the media: they need a theme. I still say no one of these Kardashians is all that upset about the Vanity Fair article, but when your life is on Reality TV year after year, you need a theme. You need drama. You need something interesting to film and to discuss. You need to pretend to be pissed off about something so you can film a "serious talk" in front of the cameras! Discussing Cait's comments and the break up of the marriage fits the bill. It's a topic for the show! If these people just sat around acting normal, making breakfast and doing crossword puzzle it would have no interest. And it appears to be working because all the viewers are really riled up about the inner workings of the Kris/Cait marriage.  

[Kenz]

I've never watched Keeping up with the Kardashians, so I'm curious to know if Cait had any male friends that she hung out with? It would be interesting to know how her male friends have reacted to her changes, or maybe it's too early in her transition to know.

 

I agree that Cait comes across a little dull, and I guess they do her interviews in a choppy fashion (different colored nails in each scene) to keep some kind of interest up. I find her face unsettling, because although in photos she looks pretty good, on film she has a blank face with not much movement due to all of that surgery. I feel sorry for her, because underneath the exciting transformational time and attention she's getting now, I sense a lonely time ahead for her. I hope she can spend some time with her children and can act like a caring parent. From what I've read she needs to make up for past neglect in that area with her six biological children.

[HumblePi]

In the Vanity Fair article, Caitlyn said "Kendall and Kylie were a distraction". Kris, Kim and Khloe took that out of context and made it into something negative sounding. Reading it, rather than hearing it in context, changes it entirely and I can understand how the word 'distraction' would come across as it was read in the Vanity Fair article. As Caitlyn explained, it wasn't meant to be taken in that circumstance at all. Those two girls, Kendall and Kylie, gave her life a lot of joy and meaning. She adored those girls and still does as they adore her as well. The love for them was very obvious in the ways she showered them with it when they were little girls and still does now that they're grown. 

 

What Caitlyn meant, although it should have been more obvious, was that raising her children was what distracted her from her own ambitious goal of becoming transgender. As she said, they were a distraction from who she was. Caitlyn Jenner had confessed that she had suicidal thoughts after being 'outed' by the press before she was ready to come out to her family and friends. It wouldn't surprise many if Caitlyn may had considered suicide more than once in all those years of living very unhappily as a male. Kylie and Kendall were probably responsible for giving her focus and meaning and a reason to live. Maybe they don't realize that they may have been responsible for saving her life more than once.

[Artsda]

Cait was very defensive with Kim and Khloe, and tried to control the conversations. She ordered both of them, "Don't go there," several times during their talks.

 

 

This is how Cait always is during confrontation from one of her children and how she was before. When Brody confronted her a few seasons back about the abandonment of the 4 bio kids, it was responded with being defensive.

 

 

Cait seems way more into her step daughters than she is into her biological kids, especially the four who were born before she married Kris.

That's how Cait always was also, closer to the K's and Rob than the bio 4. Logically it makes sense since for 24 years and most of the childrens lives like Khloe and Rob that were so small they lived together and was raised by Cait/Kris. Where as the older 4 are basically not part of the family and would go years without seeing Caitlyn. That's like distant relatives.

 

 

Khloe and Cait were never close. Let's not forget how she treated her when she was getting married to Lamar. She completely left her out of the news, and waited until the very last minute to ask her to walk her down the aisle, as if she really didn't want to ask her at all.

They're actually really close, raised Khloe and lived with Khloe for her entire life until a late teen and everything with Lamar and  a lot of the show was scripted for the 2 hour special of the wedding. Plotlines. Camera's just happened to be on Caitlyn when she happened to see the engagement news and see her reaction? Watching the news with Scott and who ever else was in the room? 

 

This whole episode seemed like just a set up for the Kris + Caitlyn meeting. Also as well to showcase and promote Khloe's texting app, just like when Kylie showed her hair extensions. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Artsda

[HumblePi]

I've never watched Keeping up with the Kardashians, so I'm curious to know if Cait had any male friends that she hung out with? It would be interesting to know how her male friends have reacted to her changes, or maybe it's too early in her transition to know.

 

I agree that Cait comes across a little dull, and I guess they do her interviews in a choppy fashion (different colored nails in each scene) to keep some kind of interest up. I find her face unsettling, because although in photos she looks pretty good, on film she has a blank face with not much movement due to all of that surgery. I feel sorry for her, because underneath the exciting transformational time and attention she's getting now, I sense a lonely time ahead for her. I hope she can spend some time with her children and can act like a caring parent. From what I've read she needs to make up for past neglect in that area with her six biological children.

I've thought of exactly the same thing. Caitlyn had many male friends when she was Bruce. Although right now they are giving her their full support publicly, I have some serious doubts as to whether those same friendships will survive now that she transitioned to Caitlyn. It's obvious that Caitlyn feels most comfortable right now with other transgenders because they understand her and have a lot in common. I don't know if Caitlyn Jenner will be excluded from future activities that she previously only shared with 'the guys' or whether they will treat her in the same way or not. I suppose that only time will tell. Once the cameras disappear, and the 'newness' of all this dies down and Caitlyn is left alone to live her life as she chooses, who will be left to live it with her remains a question.

Edited August 17, 2015 by HumblePi

[nexxie]

Wish the older Jenner kids were on the show - I'd love to see how those relationships are working out for Cait.

[Kenz]

According to the VF writer, this was the reason that the older Jenner children are not on the show:

 

“That was a hard decision for them, because these are Jenner kids, trying to reconnect with their father after a long, long absence. He was, she was, desperate to have them do the show,” Bissinger told CBS’s “This Morning” show.
“And at their own risk of financial gain and exposure, they said, ‘No, we are not going to do it. We do not want to participate in something that we are concerned will be a spectacle because it’s being produced by the same company that did “Keeping up with the Kardashians.”’”

 

I hope Cait will be able to really connect with them and give them plenty of attention after all of this hoopla is over, should she choose to live a more private and less hectic life.

Edited August 17, 2015 by Kenz

[Timetoread]

'Cait tells her that she's been learning so much about trans folks, like how many are living on the streets. Khloe: "Awwww, that's not good."'

I'm surprised no one is talking about this. Khloe said it with about as much concern as you'd give someone who just told you they chipped a nail.

 

I read this (and received it in the same fashion as Khloe) as Cait trying to blow smoke.  She knew Khloe was upset and WHY Khloe was upset and she's supposedly there to clear the air.  Then she shows up with this fake small talk, custom Versace bag, and a Messaiah complex, like she's freakin Malala Yousafzai or Ghandi back from the dead.  WTF ever!  Bitch, I don't care if you adopted a starving orphan on the drive down, don't deflect! 

 

And why am I the only person annoyed that Cait didn't bother learn anything about transpeople before deciding to become one?  How many homeless folks was she feeding as she flew her helicopters around the grassy knolls of Calabassas?  Bitch please!

Edited August 17, 2015 by Timetoread

[ClareWalks]

Sometimes I think Caitlyn Jenner can and will really make a difference in this world. But then she goes on and on about her Versace handbag, and I sigh for what could have been.

[Timetoread]

I think she was trying to relate to Khloe on a womenly level

This right here! This is her problem, she still views women as most mysogynistic men do - women are all fluff and fashion and pretty things. The K girls definitely embody that lifestyle, it is their bread and butter. But Khloe didn't want to talk about purses and eyelashes. She wanted to address the point that her baby sister is crying herself to sleep because her father implied that she was nothing more than a "distraction" from what she REALLY wanted out of life. I know that is not what she meant, but that was the point that had to be made in that conversation, not how she looks or what she's wearing. Perhaps Kourtney is keeping her distance not because Cait has better nails than she does, but because she has not yet quite found the proper words to explain to her toddlers what happened to Grandpa.

Cait seems to be utterly clueless on what womanhood truly is. In Cait's mind the family adjusting to her womanhood is just them getting used to seeing her in a dress - the way she prefers to see herself. But concepts such as sisterhood and motherhood and daughterhood are completely lost on her. This journey has thus far not imbued her with any empathy or even any SYMPATHY.

Edited August 19, 2015 by Timetoread

[Rigoletto22]

If I were to have a serious talk with a family member about a serious topic, I would not do it before cameras with the entire world watching. Their lives are all out there for our entertainment and we can only speculate as to what really happened and how everyone really feels. But it seems like we all really care so much about the inner workings of these reality entertainers lives so it is fulfilling its purpose! And entertaining it is but I can't help thinking the world has really gone to hell and my own brain wastes so much time thinking about people I do not know and their inner lives that it's scares me. If I spent half as much time as I do dwelling on the Kardashians lives learning art history, I'd be quite learned.

 

 And did you see Chloe's "homeless people? That's bad" rearend when she stood up to hug Cait? Lol it was like watching a Saturday morning cartoon.

[iwasish]

Yeah, I think she was trying to relate to Khloe on a womenly level or something since women love fashion...or something. I'm kind of tired of the playing dress up. I don't sleep over at my friends' houses and we don't try on each other's clothing. I thought the sleepover with Candis was weird, unless she's a romantic interest (which I'm guessing is what we're supposed to infer, especially based on Cait's comment when she saw the naked photo of Candis while leaving. Why anyone would have a framed nude portrait of oneself in a public area of one's house is beyond me but I'm not a Hollywood type).

The walls of Kris K's home are adorned with nude, semi nude and naked pictures of Kim, Kim and more Kim. So are the walls of Kim's home. 

And why am I the only person annoyed that Cait didn't bother learn anything about transpeople before deciding to become one?

 

Do you think she even knew the term "transgender"?

 

Considering that she did spend lots of time on the road making speeches, I'm surprised the only forays into the trans world were dressing up and walking around the lobby and trying to get a "yes Ma'am" from the operator while ordering room service. She never made any attempt to meet other transgender folk.. some kind of out of town support group or network? 

Edited August 17, 2015 by iwasish

[Cosmocrush]

One more thing - I'm getting very tired of the repeated close-ups of Cait's manicured hands.

Yeah what is that anyway?  I'm guessing it's Bunim/Murray (the production company) trying to make a 'serious' film, lol.  

 

The segments with Khloe and Kim were so irritating.  BOTH of them have allowed their nasty divorces to play out in the media!  Also, I'm fairly certain that Caitlyn's statement about probably still being with Kris today, was originally said during the Diane Sawyer interview, so why is Kim suddenly having a problem with it when Caitlyn repeated it in Vanity Fair?

 

In the Vanity Fair article, Caitlyn said "Kendall and Kylie were a distraction". Kris, Kim and Khloe took that out of context and made it into something negative sounding. Reading it, rather than hearing it in context, changes it entirely and I can understand how the word 'distraction' would come across as it was read in the Vanity Fair article. As Caitlyn explained, it wasn't meant to be taken in that circumstance at all. Those two girls, Kendall and Kylie, gave her life a lot of joy and meaning. She adored those girls and still does as they adore her as well. The love for them was very obvious in the ways she showered them with it when they were little girls and still does now that they're grown. 

 

Maybe she said it in the Diane Sawyer interview  (I seem to remember that) but last night I re-read the Vanity Fair article last night and no where does Caitlyn say anything like she would still be together with Kris if Kris had been more accepting.  What she did say in VF was that their problems weren't all about gender.   

 

Additionally, no where in VF  does Caitlyn call her two youngest children a "distraction."     In fact, here is what the article does say about Kendall and Kylie:

 

In March, he had been living on his own for about a year and a half since his and Kris’s separation, which would ultimately lead to their divorce after 23 years of marriage. It gave him the opportunity to live more freely as a woman. It wasn’t enough. He worried the most about how the two daughters whom he and Kris share, Kendall and Kylie, would react to his transition. But Kendall was a 19-year- old supermodel, and Kylie, at 17, already had endorsement deals for various beauty products, in addition to what they make from Keeping Up with the Kardashians, on the E! network. They were each independent enough to have bought homes, Kendall a condo for $1.4 million in the area of Westwood, Kylie a house in Calabasas for $2.7 million. Now that he felt the two girls could process the change, there was only one step left.

 

 

http://www.vanityfair.com/hollywood/2015/06/caitlyn-jenner-bruce-cover-annie-leibovitz

I always suspected Kim couldn't didn't read but I would have thought she would get this right before she decided to make a literal scene about it on TV. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[MissE]

Yeah what is that anyway?  I'm guessing it's Bunim/Murray (the production company) trying to make a 'serious' film, lol.  

 

 

Maybe she said it in the Diane Sawyer interview  (I seem to remember that) but last night I re-read the Vanity Fair article last night and no where does Caitlyn say anything like she would still be together with Kris if Kris had been more accepting.  What she did say in VF was that their problems weren't all about gender.   

 

Additionally, no where in VF  does Caitlyn call her two youngest children a "distraction."     In fact, here is what the article does say about Kendall and Kylie:

 

I always suspected Kim couldn't didn't read but I would have thought she would get this right before she decided to make a literal scene about it on TV. 

 

It was said somewhere, because Cait knew exactly what Kim was talking about, and never denied that she said it.

[Artsda]

I think it may have been Diane Sawyer, that the script for these episodes are throwing it in as VF instead for just sloppiness or because they have to say the words Vanity Fair in each episode. lol Or they use VF to refer to Espy speech because they haven't gotten to that part of the timeline yet. 

 

Diane Sawyer - "Kris and I had 23 great years together. You can fake it for a long time; you can deal with it. You can't have distractions for a long time."

 

ESPY video - "I always felt like I was hiding myself from everybody. The only way I could get through life was by distraction."

Edited August 17, 2015 by Artsda

[iwasish]

So? Still weird to me. I don't understand your point. It's not any weirder or less weird depending on the person. I don't understand it no matter who is doing it.

 

Are we really going to look to the Kardashians when it comes to determining what is normal?

I think it strange also!! I don't know why anyone would decorate with nude shots of themselves or loved ones either... so seeing it in Candis home made me think so "there's at least three that do it"   I wonder if Caitlyn will muster the courage?

[Tara Ariano]

In case you missed it, here's the Previously.TV post on the episode!

 

Group Texts Will Save Us All / It doesn't matter what the problem is, just text a Kardashian!

[Cosmocrush]

It was said somewhere, because Cait knew exactly what Kim was talking about, and never denied that she said it.

Oh, I don't disagree that Cait said those things somewhere,  and I don't know why I still had my hard copy of  VF but I stupidly re-read the entire story last night because I didn't remember the VF article "bashing" the Kartrashian clan at all.  I think Artsda is right - attributing these things to the VF article was just sloppiness on the show's part. 

 

I have to say though, last night was the first time I thought Caitlyn seemed vulnerable to me.  and I felt for her when Kate Bornstein basically told her being trans was being a freak and she needed to own it.  I think that word must have shocked Caitlyn going by how many times I've heard her use the word "Normal" as in, we are just "normal women" which only shows how little she knows about other women, lol., 

 

It seems to me Caitlyn has spent her entire life successfully trying to fit in or if not fit in, stand out in an "acceptable" way.  She wasn't ever bullied in high school,  she spent her adulthood in the spotlight living the life of white male privilege and wealth, all the while denying who she really was to almost everyone.  I can't imagine that kind of inner struggle and in that regard I do have not only sympathy for Cait but admiration for finally being able to do  what today teenagers ( and younger)  are being allowed to do:  be themselves.  

 

So now, at 65, she's said this is her last chance to live her own, authentic life and good for her to have the courage (finally) to do it.  I believe that on some level Cait does wish she could just, "slip into society" now (she's wistfully said as much) but she knows that could never happen;  And truthfully, it's been my experience that even trans women who are not 'famous' do not go unnoticed.  

 

Anyway, maybe it was just my disdain for the Kartrashian sisters  or maybe the wine but last night's episode really made me feel for Caitlyn.  I'm sure it will pass with the next episode. 

Edited August 17, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[LaChavalina]

 And why am I the only person annoyed that Cait didn't bother learn anything about transpeople before deciding to become one?  How many homeless folks was she feeding as she flew her helicopters around the grassy knolls of Calabassas?  Bitch please!

 

 

Considering that she did spend lots of time on the road making speeches, I'm surprised the only forays into the trans world were dressing up and walking around the lobby and trying to get a "yes Ma'am" from the operator while ordering room service. She never made any attempt to meet other transgender folk.. some kind of out of town support group or network? 

 

I don't actually believe for a second that Cait went into this transition knowing as little as she claims to about being transgender. Casey Plett had a great review of the show in the NYT a week or two ago in which she speculated that this show is--to some extent--a reenactment of Cait learning what it means to be transgender, but that it's being acted out here for the sake of educating the audience.

 

We know from past episodes that Caitlin met Jenny B. at some point prior to the start of the show. Caitlin also mentioned she'd read books about being transgender, and I think there have been other breadcrumbs as well. If Caitlin has known she was transgender since she was a child, and actually went so far as to begin the transition by taking hormones back in the 90s, it's highly dubious that she'd be as clueless as she claims.

[bichonblitz]

I've thought of exactly the same thing. Caitlyn had many male friends when she was Bruce. Although right now they are giving her their full support publicly, I have some serious doubts as to whether those same friendships will survive now that she transitioned to Caitlyn. It's obvious that Caitlyn feels most comfortable right now with other transgenders because they understand her and have a lot in common. I don't know if Caitlyn Jenner will be excluded from future activities that she previously only shared with 'the guys' or whether they will treat her in the same way or not. I suppose that only time will tell. Once the cameras disappear, and the 'newness' of all this dies down and Caitlyn is left alone to live her life as she chooses, who will be left to live it with her remains a question.

I don't remember her having any male friends. I remember her being alone all of the time golfing and flying those planes and taking the girls to school and picking them up. In one episode,(a long time ago) Kris was complaining that Cait never wanted to go out, she was too much of a homebody and Cait said she liked staying home. She was uncomfortable around most people. 

[millennium]

And why am I the only person annoyed that Cait didn't bother learn anything about transpeople before deciding to become one?  How many homeless folks was she feeding as she flew her helicopters around the grassy knolls of Calabassas?  Bitch please!

 

You're not the only one.  

 

Personally, I don't believe Jenner's claim of knowing nothing about transgender people prior to transition.   When you grow up transgender, particularly in the period Jenner grew up, being transgender wasn't something you could talk to anyone about.   You couldn't ask your parents or your teachers.   You had to keep it secret at all costs, for fear of ridicule and rejection, or worse.   But at the same time you're overcome by a relentless desire to know more about why you're this way, whether there are other people like you and how they deal with it.    So you would search out any scrap of information you could find, in books, magazines, newspapers, on TV talk shows, etc. (crossdressers and transsexuals made great fodder for Donahue, Sally Jesse Raphael, Geraldo, etc. -- in fact, Kate Bornstein was a frequent guest on those shows back in the day).  That intense curiosity never goes away, even after you become an adult,  which is why the internet has been a godsend to transgender people.  It has made the latest information instantly accessible and allowed transgender people to communicate with kindred souls.  

 

No one will ever be able to convince me that Jenner never sought out more information about being transgender or has remained blissfully ignorant of the big issues affecting transgender people.   Even if I could swallow that she never went looking for information, transgender stories have been all over the news these last few years, about bathroom laws, violence against transgender people, about the Duggars' anti-transgender robo-calls, about Congress's denial of transgender being labeled a disability, Laverne Cox, and much more.

 

This is a person who says she's been trying to transition for years, taking hormones, etc.  But she never went looking for more information about the whole phenomenon?  Bull.  Shit.

 

I think she's milking the "Alice in Wonderland" routine for the show.   And people are believing it only because they don't know any better.

I don't actually believe for a second that Cait went into this transition knowing as little as she claims to about being transgender. Casey Plett had a great review of the show in the NYT a week or two ago in which she speculated that this show is--to some extent--a reenactment of Cait learning what it means to be transgender, but that it's being acted out here for the sake of educating the audience.

 

We know from past episodes that Caitlin met Jenny B. at some point prior to the start of the show. Caitlin also mentioned she'd read books about being transgender, and I think there have been other breadcrumbs as well. If Caitlin has known she was transgender since she was a child, and actually went so far as to begin the transition by taking hormones back in the 90s, it's highly dubious that she'd be as clueless as she claims.

 

We were posting at the same time, but yes and yes and yes.

Edited August 18, 2015 by millennium

[MarysWetBar]

I wasn't overly impressed with last night's episode either. I know it's a delicate topic but honestly, if someone had asshole tendencies prior to transitioning, those don't go away. Things like morals and ethics and values are within and don't change often especially at the age of 65.I absolutely believe Caitlyn was a better parent than pimpmomma K, but don't think the bar was very high in that competition at all. I hope the show evolves a bit more. .kinda tired of the glam shit. .the makeup the hair the outfits. .but understand it would be alot like being a fourteen year old girl and i don't have patience for them much anymore either..haha

It's beginning to remind me a bit much of KUWTK. I also wish the older bio children were more involved as that would be more where my interest lays.

She's pretty vapid.

Edited August 18, 2015 by MarysWetBar

[iwasish]

Sorry for my brusque tone. I thought the intent behind your post was different from what it actually was.

No apology necessary.

[whoknowswho]

As the old saying goes 'hindsight is 20/20' and I think that Caitlyn will realize that there's a lot of things she could have done differently that could have resulted in a more positive reaction, particularly from Khloe and Kourtney.  To them, it appeared that she 'pulled a fast one' by keeping this life-changing decision to herself to just prior to the Diane Sawyer interview.

 

I'm beginning to get a little tired of the responses that Caitlyn always gives whenever her sexual orientation for intimate relationships is questioned. Candis is beautiful, sexy and apparently very much willing to embark on a sexual relationship with Caitlyn. All Caitlyn can drawl out about how she views her sexuality now is "I d-o-n't... k-n-o-o-w".  Come on! Are we supposed to believe that Caitlyn hasn't yet decided if she's sexually attracted to men or women? Of course she knows, but right now she has a lot of fear about committing sexually.

 

Khloe bugs the hell out of me. The way she came all glammed up and pursing her lips while listening to Caitlyn. The way she plays with her hair ceaselessly is just maddening. All her mannerisms are intended to be flirty and attractive for the camera. She always looks like she's posing for a photo-shoot.

I noticed in this photo that she's going for the same look as Kylie has. I swear that all the Kardashian women will eventually morph into the same face.

I've never seen the Kartrashians show- but my late mother for YEARS said that Bruce was trying to look more and more like his wife! (Mom died 2 years ago)

I wish she was alive for many reasons, but one is to see what actually happened--how she was so close yet so far from the truth. Of course those facelifts had a purpose my dear Mom wouldn't have been able to see coming. Every time I see Caitlyn- I think of my mother. 

 

God, they disgust me- these women, their use of the overblown lips, the overdone everything- the synthetic asses and boobs and lips and having everything changed. No way could they accept, or even grasp what their father and stepfather was going through. 

Gross. All of them. The whole trashy crew. 

Edited August 19, 2015 by whoknowswho

[Atticus Finch]

to me, bruce was boring and cait is boring.

[perfectstorm]

That slumber party with only Cait and Candis was all kinds of awkward. 

 

Khloe and Cait were never close. Let's not forget how she treated her when she was getting married to Lamar. She completely left her out of the news, and waited until the very last minute to ask her to walk her down the aisle, as if she really didn't want to ask her at all. So now to act like they were always close is such BS. She didn't care about Cait any more before the transition than she does now. 

 

All the Kardashians including the Jenner girls treated Cait like shit. Kris allowed it. Before the transition, they were always making fun of her, her hair, her clothes, she could do nothing right. Kris relegated her to the garage to play with her toys.  It was painful to watch. The marriage should have ended years before it did.  Cait should keep her mouth shut about Kris, move forward and not discuss her life with Kris in front of the camera's. Kim and Khloe need to keep their mouths shut and mind their own business regarding their mothers marriage.  I guess they're not done with us yet,  judging from the preview we will we subjected to Kris and her tears next week. 

Like most kids make fun of their parents.  Kendall and Kylie have always seem closer to Caitlyn than Kris.  The Khloe situation had more to do with her own fear - than disrespect. 

Caitlyn is hardly the victim.  She would not be able to afford her current lifestyle if not for KUWTK.  Financially, Kris lost out in the divorce.  They didn't have a pre-nup and Caitlyn got half of the K empire - that Kris had built.  And she was the one that reinvented Caitlyn - long after her Olympic glory days had faded.

I am hardly a fan of Momager - but it's unreasonable for Caitlyn to expect Kris to stay married in this situation.  That's what had broken up his 2 previous marriages.

[Cosmic Muffin]

I could get on board with the transition ending the marriage if there wasn't 7 years worth of KUWTK showing blatant disrespect and disregard for Caitlyn. Sure, if things had been otherwise fine, the transition would have ended the marriage, but Cait herself says it was how Kris treated her. Kris should have known she'd lose half in a divorce, she could have treated Cait better. Although, again, the transition would have made that a moot point.

[perfectstorm]

I could get on board with the transition ending the marriage if there wasn't 7 years worth of KUWTK showing blatant disrespect and disregard for Caitlyn. Sure, if things had been otherwise fine, the transition would have ended the marriage, but Cait herself says it was how Kris treated her. Kris should have known she'd lose half in a divorce, she could have treated Cait better. Although, again, the transition would have made that a moot point.

7 yrs of a scripted "reality" TV show.  I would never quote KUWTK as the bible, lol.

Caitlyn also chose to stay in that relationship - and she gained financially because of it.  She's always had a darker, more self serving side to her.  This is the same person who pretty much abandoned her first 4 children

Edited August 18, 2015 by ifoundit

[freeradical]

7 yrs of a scripted "reality" TV show. I would never quote KUWTK as the bible, lol.

Caitlyn also chose to stay in that relationship - and she gained financially because of it. She's always a darker, colder side to her - i.e., pretty much abandoning her first 4 kids.

I don't think Cosmic Muffin was quoting the KUWTK bible, but since you brought it up, the term implies some truth and some fiction! lol! Like any reality show these are real people portrayed in a mostly (but not entirely) fictional story. Anybody would feel like shit if their "role" for 7 years was of a useless shut in. Edited August 18, 2015 by barbaralewis

[perfectstorm]

I don't think Cosmic Muffin was quoting the KUWTK bible, but since you brought it up, the term implies some truth and some fiction! lol! Like any reality show these are real people portrayed in a mostly (but not entirely) fictional story. Anybody wold feel like shit if their "role" for 7 years was of a useless shut in.

But Caitlyn chose to do it.  She was never central to the show and could have always opted out - like Rob did.  Like Kanye who has restricted North's appearances. Caitlyn is a grown adult.  No one forced her to take the paycheck.  No one forced her to live the lavish lifestyle she has now because of the show.

[Notmuchofacook]

Congratulations to Cait. I'm happy for her. Having said that, this show is boring as hell. I'm tired of the clothes and the makeup business. Khloe talking to Cait about serious issues was laughable. CONVERSATE???? Khloe, that is not a word. And stop playing with your damn hair. And what's up with those nails? Yikes. Also, I wish Cait would take some walking lessons. She still walks like a male athlete.

[Cosmocrush]

Caitlyn is hardly the victim.  She would not be able to afford her current lifestyle if not for KUWTK.  Financially, Kris lost out in the divorce.  They didn't have a pre-nup and Caitlyn got half of the K empire - that Kris had built.  And she was the one that reinvented Caitlyn - long after her Olympic glory days had faded.

I am hardly a fan of Momager - but it's unreasonable for Caitlyn to expect Kris to stay married in this situation.  That's what had broken up his 2 previous marriages.

I don't know the specific divorce terms but according to the VF article - which seems to be a full character this week and next in the show they reached a settlement without attorneys and each kept their own contracts. 

 

They were amicably divorced last September. The agreement was completed with no lawyers, an indication, Jenner said, “of 23 great years together.” He said that he retained the contracts that were his and she retained the ones considered hers. The agreement, filed in Los Angeles County Superior Court, states that they aimed to divide their assets evenly, but Kris almost certainly emerged much wealthier than Bruce, since she kept sole possession of all the business interests and intellectual property in her name—including Keeping Up with the Kardashians and its spin- offs.

 

 

 

The article  also said that Cait's feelings of gender dsyphoria was what ended her second marriage to Linda Thompson, who didn't want to stay in a marriage with a woman, but Kris insists she never knew anything about it until after the divorce.  

 

I don't know the truth and I guess I don't really care because the end result is the same.  I wish these people could talk to each other off camera for a change. 

Edited August 18, 2015 by Cosmocrush

[freeradical]

 

But Caitlyn chose to do it.  She was never central to the show and could have always opted out - like Rob did.  Like Kanye who has restricted North's appearances. Caitlyn is a grown adult.  No one forced her to take the paycheck.  No one forced her to live the lavish lifestyle she has now because of the show.

ifoundit (sorry I meant to quote your last post!)

I understand your point about the choice to do it, although myself and many others have made choices to do things that were bad for us, sometimes going on for years. Your observation also makes me wonder what kind of contract "evil momager" had everybody sign? I mean, was it an annual contract? Somehow she managed to keep everyone on the show all these years. Oh wait, money! Curiously, all the men on the show get fed to the papparatzi in a negative way. Cait, Scott, Rob ,even Lamar (no way Kloe wasn't doing drugs with him) but momager controls what comes out about the girls. Oh gawd the ridiculous crap we are fed about Kim. Kris owns the paps! They say all press is good press but when Satan controls it.....

Edited August 18, 2015 by barbaralewis

[perfectstorm]

ifoundit (sorry I meant to quote your last post!)

I understand your point about the choice to do it, although myself and many others have made choices to do things that were bad for us, sometimes going on for years. Your observation also makes me wonder what kind of contract "evil momager" had everybody sign? I mean, was it an annual contract? Somehow she managed to keep everyone on the show all these years. Oh wait, money! Curiously, all the men on the show get fed to the papparatzi in a negative way. Cait, Scott, Rob ,even Lamar (no way Kloe wasn't doing drugs with him) but momager controls what comes out about the girls. Oh gawd the ridiculous crap we are fed about Kim. Kris owns the paps! They say all press is good press but when Satan controls it.....

I think people give Momager way more influence, power than she really has - which just feeds into her narcissism.  The media coverage on the women is just as negative - if not even more.   And no amount of spinning can hide the bad boy behavior of Lamar and Scott.  Whereas Caitlyn generally has received positive press.

[Timetoread]

I think people give Momager way more influence, power than she really has - which just feeds into her narcissism.  The media coverage on the women is just as negative - if not even more.   And no amount of spinning can hide the bad boy behavior of Lamar and Scott.  Whereas Caitlyn generally has received positive press.

 

Agreed.  If Momager were a man, the world would consider her to be highly successful and a power player.  But you know how that trope goes...   Caitlyn, her entire life, has done what she wanted, when she wanted and has never EVER sacrificed for a single family member - even Kendall and Kylie.  I've seen just about every episode but perhaps I tuned out during the scenes of Caitlyn being tortured by the wife and kids.  Mostly what I saw was Caitlyn playing the "part" of the eye-rolling dad who can't keep up with his fiesty girls and said fiesty girls trying to get away with things behind dad's back.

[iwasish]

I wish these people could talk to each other off camera for a change.

 

You so funny!!! Where's the money in private conversations?

[freeradical]

I'm feeling like this convo should have been in the Cait in the media thread. Sorry to get OT!

[ClareWalks]

Like so many of you, I also LOL'd bigtime at Khloe's "this family needs to communicate better! We should send group texts!" Like seriously, maybe I'm just fucking old (I'm 32, so no), but how about having an off-camera meal together once in a while? It's also ridiculous that they think the best way to express heartfelt apologies is by TWEETING IT. "It's public, so it's more meaningful!" is basically their family motto by now, isn't it?

[kitten59]

 

I find her face unsettling, because although in photos she looks pretty good, on film she has a blank face with not much movement due to all of that surgery.

I thought the same thing. It's almost like wearing a mask that you can't rip off. Her face is so frozen. Maybe it'll settle and soften up in time?

Khloe, just ugh. The way she was looking at Cait with those cold, dead eyes. She's utterly repulsive.

[jnymph]

Ugh.

I couldn't even focus on what was transpiring between Caitlyn & Khloe; due to Khloe's constant hair petting, dead shark eyes, vain comments (I have good lashes) & "conversate"

She is VILE!

I had a 60s flashback of Sonny Bono when Chaz was onscreen. He looks & talks just like dear old (departed) Dad.

[iwasish]

The voice was so eerily like his Dad. I don't recall what Chastity sounded like though. If it was different or not

[HumblePi]

If I were to have a serious talk with a family member about a serious topic, I would not do it before cameras with the entire world watching. Their lives are all out there for our entertainment and we can only speculate as to what really happened and how everyone really feels. But it seems like we all really care so much about the inner workings of these reality entertainers lives so it is fulfilling its purpose! And entertaining it is but I can't help thinking the world has really gone to hell and my own brain wastes so much time thinking about people I do not know and their inner lives that it's scares me. If I spent half as much time as I do dwelling on the Kardashians lives learning art history, I'd be quite learned.

 

 And did you see Chloe's "homeless people? That's bad" rearend when she stood up to hug Cait? Lol it was like watching a Saturday morning cartoon.

[Christi]

Chaz looks so goood!! Yeay!

Also...Khloe's dad aint the hairdresser...

Its OJ....hellloooooo

[millennium]

Do you think she even knew the term "transgender"?

 

 

 

Yes, absolutely.    She's not naive.  Ditto for the idea that she's a victim (of Kris, the Kardashians, society, fill-in-the-blank).  Caitlyn Jenner is a driven, goal-oriented American success story, whose primary motivation has always been money.    It was the desire for money that propelled her to gold in the Olympics, not a passion for sports (http://espn.go.com/olympics/story/_/id/13346959/bruce-jenner-became-olympic-icon-exactly-39-years-ago).   In fact, her past history strengthens my suspicion that the intent of her show isn't as altruistic as it pretends to be.   That aside, she didn't get to where she is by fumbling blindly through life.   I think she knew what's what long before she started transitioning.

[HumblePi]

The Jenners and Kardashians are people that have made their money from pop culture and have created a specific image for themselves. Imagine if your only job was to look attractive, pose for selfies, smile for photographers, and make a sex tape now and then. What have any one of them achieved on their own? The biggest drama that the Kardashian family has had to deal with was Rob's obesity/drug use and Scott's alcoholism/philandering. But those things are nothing unusual anywhere much less in California.

 

Then Caitlyn drops the T-bomb, Dad is now Caitlyn! Here comes some serious drama. How is the clan expected to react on camera? As presumed the clan shows their kinship colors by publicly celebrating for Cait. They rejoice with her, tell her they're happy that she's finally realizing her lifelong dream and they will all be there for her. But behind the scenes, in private what are their real feelings? It's the kind of news that even the Kardashians can't embrace with any credibility. It's inevitable that at least one isn't going to be totally behind Caitlyn supporting her. None of them wants to give any sign of non-support to Caitlyn or show any sign of disappointment or dismay. Nobody wants to appear publicly as having even the slightest issue with the Caitlyn's transitioning. Khloe, Kourtney and Kris are the three most visibly not thrilled for Caitlyn. Fast forward a year, and I imagine Caitlyn will be pretty much apart from most of her children and involved with transgenders in her new life, the family she leaves unattended to are going to resent that, it's inevitable. Not only has Caitlyn transgendered and fulfilled a lifelong dream, she's turning over a whole new leaf and starting a new life, but that new life doesn't really have room in it for many people in her past.

Edited August 20, 2015 by HumblePi

[xls]

That would be a VERY SPECIAL EPISODE for sure! Humm, Road trip, safari vaca, a mani/ pedi/ botox date, they could cut a rap song with Kanye's help, oh, I know-hot-air balloon ride!

Have I left out any reality show cliches?

 

 

Ugh.

I couldn't even focus on what was transpiring between Caitlyn & Khloe; due to Khloe's constant hair petting, dead shark eyes, vain comments (I have good lashes) & "conversate"

She is VILE!

I had a 60s flashback of Sonny Bono when Chaz was onscreen. He looks & talks just like dear old (departed) Dad.

You know Khloe's thinking; "You can't be a woman because your lips and butt aren't big enough yet"

She used to be my favorite.

[CousinAmy]

In a snippet of tape I saw somewhere - taken at Kylie's 18th birthday festivities, Cait said, "My job is over!"

I guess since Kylie is now a responsible adult, Caitlyn feels that she doesn't need to parent her children anymore.

No more family interference for our Cait!

[Muffyn]

The Jenners and Kardashians are people that have made their money from pop culture and have created a specific image for themselves. Imagine if your only job was to look attractive, pose for selfies, smile for photographers, and make a sex tape now and then. What have any one of them achieved on their own? The biggest drama that the Kardashian family has had to deal with was Rob's obesity/drug use and Scott's alcoholism/philandering. But those things are nothing unusual anywhere much less in California.

 

Then Caitlyn drops the T-bomb, Dad is now Caitlyn! Here comes some serious drama. How is the clan expected to react on camera? As presumed the clan shows their kinship colors by publicly celebrating for Cait. They rejoice with her, tell her they're happy that she's finally realizing her lifelong dream and they will all be there for her. But behind the scenes, in private what are their real feelings? It's the kind of news that even the Kardashians can't embrace with any credibility. It's inevitable that at least one isn't going to be totally behind Caitlyn supporting her. None of them wants to give any sign of non-support to Caitlyn or show any sign of disappointment or dismay. Nobody wants to appear publicly as having even the slightest issue with the Caitlyn's transitioning. Khloe, Kourtney and Kris are the three most visibly not thrilled for Caitlyn. Fast forward a year, and I imagine Caitlyn will be pretty much apart from most of her children and involved with transgenders in her new life, the family she leaves unattended to are going to resent that, it's inevitable. Not only has Caitlyn transgendered and fulfilled a lifelong dream, she's turning over a whole new leaf and starting a new life, but that new life doesn't really have room in it for many people in her past.

I absolutely agree that any Kardashian interaction is highly suspicious.  This family is very adept at creating a public presence to keep interest in their brand.  As to how much they will or will not be in Cait's life in the future may have more to do with the publicity component.  It is very common for transgender people who transition later in life to not be accepted by their families and to have the family pull away from them.  So many of my friends have little to no contact with their families.  Often this is because the family refuses to accept the transition, continues to misgender the person and, in some cases, actively works against their transition.  

 

Cait does seem to share some common interests with her daughters.  While I find their fashion focus boring, they are all absorbed by it.  Depending on the level of closeness they had before her transition, they may still be able to be close.  But there will be a transition period for everyone as they re-establish the ways in which they interact.  We have seen in some of these interactions that Cait is not backing down from her position as a parent.  I am happy to see that.  Demanding respect for herself as a parent, a transwoman and a person is very important while she transitions.  

 

I am happy to see her interact with trans activists because she does live a very different life than most people.  Having these connections will help her understand some of what she may encounter with her family, friends and the public.  It may also give her a better understanding of the difficulties trans people regularly encounter.  She is in a position to bring greater attention to the struggles that many trans and non-gender-conforming people face.

 

Just a point of language, Cait has not "transgendered"; she is transitioning.  She has come out as transgender.   

[JacksonOrange]

 

I guess since Kylie is now a responsible adult, Caitlyn feels that she doesn't need to parent her children anymore.

   I guess you haven't tried to "parent" an adult daughter!