Pretty Little Theories

[DigitalCount]

So did Ali get hit first or Bethany? I don't understand how the sequence of events takes into consideration the fact that two different girls got hit and buried close together. I guess that the killer hit Bethany first, started to dig a hole, then realized that she wasn't Ali? Then Melissa came and buried Bethany while Ali was getting legit hit by Charles, who Jessica then covered for by burying Ali, but not so deep that she couldn't survive and get rescued?

(But of course she was hit hard enough to appear dead, but suffered no permanent damage from being knocked out with a shovel and smothered by dirt piled over her, while still sporting a gaping head wound.)

[raytch]

These are all safe assumptions. But I don't think I can handle yet another A Storyline when they've pushed this one so far. I mean what have the liars done that's SO bad that they get so much hate from a third A?

Unless A is some sort of secret society, why would they start getting tortured again 5 years after this A / Charles is taken down.

Marlene says we'll be finding out who BV and RC are along with Charles.

The only way I can see them going through with another A storyline post time jump is if one of the liars become A (Aria).

Edited July 23, 2015 by raytch

[mac123x]

Someone [i'm presuming Charles at this point] bonked Ali with a rock.

Mrs. D, in a drug addled haze, dug a hole and buried her alive.

The Grunwald pulled her out of that grave

Someone [could be Charles again, could be Big A, could be Tipi the bird for all I know] cracked Bethany with a shovel

Melissa came along, assumed Spencer had done it, and buried Bethany (also still alive) in the same hole that Ali crawled out of.

[raytch]

So did Ali get hit first or Bethany? I don't understand how the sequence of events takes into consideration the fact that two different girls got hit and buried close together. I guess that the killer hit Bethany first, started to dig a hole, then realized that she wasn't Ali? Then Melissa came and buried Bethany while Ali was getting legit hit by Charles, who Jessica then covered for by burying Ali, but not so deep that she couldn't survive and get rescued?

(But of course she was hit hard enough to appear dead, but suffered no permanent damage from being knocked out with a shovel and smothered by dirt piled over her, while still sporting a gaping head wound.)

I'm guessing Ali had to go down first and then saved by The Grunwald, and Bethany somehow ended up in the same hole.

The bigger question is who was trying to replace who?

Was Ali trying to fake her death and leaving Bethany's body instead of hers?

Were Bethany and Charles trying to fake Bethany's death and leave Ali as the replacement body?

Or were both Ali and Bethany pawns in Charles' plan? To kill one and take the other to play with.

Edited July 23, 2015 by raytch

[raytch]

Guys.

 

What if the plan THAT night was for Charles to take Ali to the dollhouse, and Bethany to break free from Radley for good?

It would make sense if Charles and Bethany had a deal so each gets what they want.

Remember the Bethany tapes where she said "she's not the only one who can make plans bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch bitch". Remember how Leslie came to Rosewood and took Mona's book from her bedroom that contained this very tape? Remember how Mike insisted she returns the book and Hanna discovers the tape at the end of the episode?

We now know that Leslie and Bethany hated each other and were roommates. What if Bethany was talking about Leslie not Ali or Mrs D as we speculated, and Leslie wanted the tape back because it pointed the finger at her? Mona had her hands on that tape and she could have told Leslie she'd keep secret and safe (like the liars with the Jenna Toby Rape Sessions), but after Mona "died", Leslie didn't want to risk someone discovering it, so she came to her house to take it back.

 

PS: the other Bethany tapes retrieved from Radley by Mona and Spencer in 5x12 were the ones where she clearly stated she's bitching at Mrs. D and her affair with her father.

Edited July 24, 2015 by raytch

[Mabinogia]

 

were the ones where she clearly stated she's bitching at Mrs. D and her affair with her father.

 Oh god, I hope Bethany isn't Spencer's alter ego. Spencer has been in Radley before, Mrs. D was having an affair with Spencer's dad. Or Bethany could be Melissa! haha

[Perfect Xero]

Random theory: Charles is the product of an affair between Byron and Jessica. We already know that Mrs. D had an affair with Spencer's Dad that produced Jason, and we know that Byron has cheated on his wife. Aria's family having a history of violent mental illness is well established through Byron's side.

[Spencer Hastings]

Random theory: Charles is the product of an affair between Byron and Jessica. We already know that Mrs. D had an affair with Spencer's Dad that produced Jason, and we know that Byron has cheated on his wife. Aria's family having a history of violent mental illness is well established through Byron's side.

Another reason for Aria getting off easy.

Seriously, they have GOT to address that.

[Giuliano Lanzilli]

Random theory: Charles is the product of an affair between Byron and Jessica. We already know that Mrs. D had an affair with Spencer's Dad that produced Jason, and we know that Byron has cheated on his wife. Aria's family having a history of violent mental illness is well established through Byron's side.

 

I'm sorry but that's really where I'd draw the line! How many affairs that spawned illegitimate children could this woman have had without anyone realizing anything? We already know she had one with Bethany's father, too! Talk about sci-fi-like (and repetitive)! 

Besides, I'm not sure Aria's family having a history of mental illness is supposed to mean anything, since everyone should be committed on this freaking show! I don't know why fans keep harkening back to that bit of info to back up their AriA theories, but I think they just threw that into the mix because... well, why not? 

Edited July 25, 2015 by Giuliano Lanzilli

[DigitalCount]

Besides, I'm not sure Aria's family having a history of mental illness is supposed to mean anything, since everyone should be committed on this freaking show! I don't know why fans keep harkening back to that bit of info to back up their AriA theories, but I think they just threw that into the mix because... well, why not? 

Generally it seems like A has to be an incredibly disturbed individual, beyond what one might consider an average Rosewoodian to be. Whatever reasons A has for carrying out this campaign of terror are completely disproportionate to the crimes s/he perpetrates. So it's pretty much impossible for A not to have a mental illness of some sort, and Aria's family history was brought up earlier in the series (as an explanation for Mike's emotional issues, but Mike is Aria's brother). Also, it is very odd that Aria herself would already have a patient intake form and number when none of the others did--not even Spencer. We've also seen that Aria is the most destructively vindictive of the Liars, as she has a tendency to flip out and destroy the belongings of someone who she thinks wronged her. She also has a sort of fascination with mental illness as we can see from her choices in reading material, not to mention a weird fixation on grotesque archetypal figures like dolls and pigs.

 

However, whenever we get any of this information, it's always given in a very coy fashion. We see snippets of Aria's rage-outs. We see glances at a typed form in contrast with the handwritten intake forms for the others. We get information divorced from context. It makes it seem as if we're supposed to maybe notice these things as important.

 

Like, you know, a doll with its hands tied up. That'd make a perfect present for a frightened friend who was fake-murdered then stuffed in a hole underground.

[cuddlingcrowley]

One key moment that gets overlooked is that CeCe (or whoever it really was) was wearing the same outfit that Ashley found in Allison's room when she confessed to killing Wilden. (When Ashley assumed Mrs. D was just buying clothes for her dead daughter.) That is an intentional detail. They are connected somehow.

 

I think CeCe is dead, and CeCe and Bethany were twins.

 

 

And I think you just nailed that, mercfan3!

 

It goes great with:

 

Raytch's:

 

Cece narrated that flashback. The writers have said over and over again that flashbacks are the memories of the characters narrating them and thus they only represent their point of view, so it could not be the whole story.

Cece told the liars Ali had a pregnancy scare, but Ali hasn't mentioned anything about it since she came back and the liars never asked her, which makes me wonder if this ever happened or if Cece just lied about it.

Wilden was in Cape May, but Cece could have been covering for him by telling the pregnancy scare story and talking about Beach Hottie to send the liars on another wild goose chase.

PS: We've seen her do the exact same thing with Paige.

 

I always suspected Cece was no good. 

[raytch]

And I think you just nailed that, mercfan3!

It goes great with:

Raytch's:

I always suspected Cece was no good.

I don't mean to burst your epiphany but Cece is way older than Bethany. They could be lying about that of course. I mean what kind of parents don't report their daughter breaking out of a mental institution and going missing for a year?

[cuddlingcrowley]

I don't mean to burst your epiphany but Cece is way older than Bethany. They could be lying about that of course. I mean what kind of parents don't report their daughter breaking out of a mental institution and going missing for a year?

 

 

Ah, hell. Never mind then.

 

(Cece is supposed to be older than bethany tho? Are we sure Bethany and Alison were the same age?)

Edited July 28, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley

[Mabinogia]

I mean what kind of parents don't report their daughter breaking out of a mental institution and going missing for a year?

 

 

While I get your point, we are talking about a show where a parent brainwashed her son into thinking that his brother was really his imaginary friend and who also buried her daughter alive after thinking someone murdered her in the backyard. I would not be a bit surprised at parents who forget they even had a kid in an institution let alone neglect to mention she's gone. haha

 

But yeah, Bethany is meant to be the Liars' age, right? And CeCe is NAT club age? I get so confused. But I still think CeCe is someone more than she claims. Bethany's older sister perhaps? Charles' nut house girlfriend?

[raytch]

Ah, hell. Never mind then.

(Cece is supposed to be older than bethany tho? Are we sure Bethany and Alison were the same age?)

Bethany is Toby's age, she was 17 the night she was murdered on endless labor day 2009. Which makes her 2 years older than Ali And 5 years younger than Cece/Jason/Melissa etc...

[raytch]

Are we ruling out Andrew?

I'm torn about him because his creepy story line came out from nowhere and he was discarded pretty fast. We still don't know about his adoption storyline and since A can't be someone we've seen in flashbacks, he still fits. Hey definitely looks older than a high school senior and I wouldn't put it behind the writers to make us suspect him then wrap him off as a red herring only to be like GOTCHA MISLEAD YOU THERE.

But, also, if Charles was a patient at Radley on endless labor day, it doesn't mean he was permanently there. He could have checked out at 16 and kept coming back for 72 hours evaluation every once in a while.

Edited July 28, 2015 by raytch

[Crim]

One thing that gives me pause when it comes to potential siblings is the matter of where they grew up and who raised them. In the books, the twin does get home visits and the entire family is aware of her existence. On the show, Charles was in Radley and Mrs D introduced him to her other children as a cousin. We also know Bethany, whoever she was for Mrs D, was in Radley. CeCe could be her "sane" sister who lived with their parents until she came in the Rosewood area and got close to the DiLaurentis. But we know that Mrs D didn't approve of her relationship with Ali, and she hadn't kept Bethany a secret from Ali, so would she not tell Ali what the connection between CeCe and Bethany was?

 

Anyway, this wasn't the main point. Charles being revealed as a character we know is. If only the Charles timeline weren't so fucked up. As it is, we don't really know when Charles left Radley for good via faked death, do we? Because to have Charles be an adult like Wren or even Wilden, that means years under a fake ID in post-Radley years. (Even if Wilden were a graduate of the Instant Police Institute that Toby went to, I don't think he was a rookie when he was first introduced in season 1. Sure, if you are A you can fake a previous career too, but... why would you?)

 

It would have made sense if Charles left Radley some unspecified number of years ago instead of being there on the Fifty-Hour Day of Ali's Many Events. Why would he go there for a checkup once his death was already faked so that he could leave? Bethany could have escaped alone, which would have allowed all events to play out as they did... except Lesli confirmed that Charles escaped that night too.

[raytch]

Crim, you're right. So basically Charles put that file in the creepy Radley dance room for the liars to find, so they'd think he's dead.

Where it doesn't add up is why would he do that and then send personal cards to his father and brother? Did he think the liars wouldn't know?

And more importantly, why show Ali and Jason the birthday video?

That attic where the video was playing is the same one where Hanna found the Bethany letter. I hope Ali gets to digging there for other clues in the next episode. The only problem is, A knows all about it. So it's safe to assume that there's nothing there that he wants to hide.

It's just strange, it's like he wants his own family to figure it out but not the liars.

[SadieT]

I'm so confused about Red Coat. Wasn't Ali/CeCe Red Coat? Like didn't Ali wear that so she could creep around town and occasionally save her friends from fires and factories and what not? I thought it was her disguise that she somtimes had CeCe wear to throw A off?

So did this Red Coat come after that and they're just wearing Ali's old choice of disguise as sort of a nod to her? Or was someone else always Red Coat and Ali saw them lurking around and decided her best disguise for when she visited Rosewood as a dead person was to dress as one of the people stalking/attempting to murder her?

Is Red Coat Sara and Charles is just continuing the tradition of making her wear Ali's clothes?

[mercfan3]

There were multiple red coats.. CeCe/Ali/?

[SadieT]

There were multiple red coats.. CeCe/Ali/?

 

But why were Ali/CeCe and Charles' limo driver all wearing the same disguise? And who wore it first? Ali/CeCe or Charles' Red Coat? Or is CeCe Charles' Red Coat too?  

[methodwriter85]

Ah, hell. Never mind then.

 

(Cece is supposed to be older than bethany tho? Are we sure Bethany and Alison were the same age?)

 

This is the same show that wants us to believe that Bryce Johnson was in high school for the class of 2005.

Edited July 29, 2015 by methodwriter85

[dwmckim]

There are three Red Coat's on the show - one is connected with "A".  Ali and CeCe (at Ali's request) also adapted the Red Coat themselves as a disguise/decoy.  It seems a lot of people (not only fans but Wetpaint.com seems to be confused about this in their various articles on the show) have forgotten that even though Ali & Cece were wearing the RC that there still is that "original" 3rd A-Red Coat that we don't yet know the identity of.  

[Spencer Hastings]

CeCe and Ali were never THE Red Coat. If they were, I don't think the show would go through the trouble of obscuring her identity tonight. Or maybe one of them originated it but someone out there is obviously using it as a disguise (which is a pretty terrible one because all of the girls would crap their pants at the sight of it).

[Lii]

I wish the show would have dropped the Redcoat persona after Ali revealed herself, tbh. This crap is confusing enough without adding an identity-challenged cosplayer to the mix. If there needs to be 50 shades of A, they at least need to get separate gimmicks.

[lorikauai]

This is so ridiculously stupid. Multiple black

hoodies, multiple yellow tops, and multiple red coats.

[SadieT]

I really thought Red Coat was just Ali's disguise for when she had to snoop around Rosewood, and occasionally she'd make CeCe wear it to throw A off, but instead she was disguising herself as one of the people stalking her? That's an interesting tactic. 

 

Anyway, this whole sympathetic Charles angle the show seems to be taking now makes me think they’re going to ret-con a lot of the horrible shit A’s done on the show and either write those things off as misunderstandings or blame someone else for them.

 

I said in the episode thread that I understand why Alison feels bad for Charles and sympathizes with him, he’s her brother and she feels responsible for what happened to him, but I sure as hell don’t feel bad for the psycho who’s been tormenting a group of teenage girls for years now, and if he turns out to be anything less than an evil sociopathic villain, I’m going to be pretty disappointed because then what was the point? 

 

But I wouldn’t be surprised if we learn that he never meant to hurt Alison, he just loves her a whole lot and wants to play with her like a doll. The tub incident when she was a baby will probably end up being an accident and he won’t end up being the one who bashed her over the head with a rock on that never ending Labor Day either. It’ll probably be Bethany (possibly out of jealousy because maybe she was Charles’ first Ali doll?) or someone else irrelevant despite the fact that it only makes sense that Mrs. D would cover up Ali’s murder for Charles. And maybe Charles killed Bethany in a rage because she hurt Ali. And then he got upset because he didn’t even get his Ali doll after he went through all the trouble of breaking out of Radley, so he just grabbed a random blonde girl off the street and started playing pretend Ali with Sara in his underground replica DiLaurentis house bunker. But then he started suspecting Alison might still be alive so he decides to start torturing her friends in hopes of drawing her out of hiding, or maybe he blames them for keeping her away, or he's jealous that they got to know the real Alison, or whatever nonsense they can come up with as the reason why a grown man would dedicate his entire life to harassing 4 teenage girls. But whatever the motive, now he's obsessed with them too and wants to add them to his doll collection, so he adds their replica rooms to the underground bunker and hi-jacks a prison van to kidnap them. And he probably didn’t even mean to kill his mom, he probably just picked up the wrong prescription at the secret drug store because he couldn’t read the label through his ski mask and then her heart accidentally stopped so he did what all DiLaurentises do when they find someone they love dead, he buried her. He’s probably a really good person and is just misunderstood and we should totally feel bad for him because he didn’t get to go to prom or whatever.

[Crim]

^ The worst part is that even if the show sank as low as to present all those justifications, his actions with the Liars and the consequences would still mean he is horrible and, basically, Hanna still has the right attitude. He can't be redeemed, which makes it all the more disappointing if the show tries.

 

This is so ridiculously stupid. Multiple black hoodies, multiple yellow tops, and multiple red coats.

The show does love its parallels though. The yellow tops were multiple by design, and those wearing them were meant to "be" Ali; for Red Coat, we know of Ali and CeCe, again. At this point I'd say the most obvious resolution (not that this is a bad thing) would be that the 3rd, Red CoAt, is Sara Harvey.

[mac123x]

CeCe and Ali were never THE Red Coat. If they were, I don't think the show would go through the trouble of obscuring her identity tonight. Or maybe one of them originated it but someone out there is obviously using it as a disguise (which is a pretty terrible one because all of the girls would crap their pants at the sight of it).

 

Ali wore the Red Coat as part of her Vivianne Darkbloom disguise which she was using prior to her disappearance.  The dude who flew her back to town early the morning of the Night of a Thousand Yellow Tops mistook Aria (who put on the red coat for inexplicable reasons) for Vivianne when they first ran into him.  IIRC, the first time any of the PLLs saw a nefarious Red Coat figure was Emily's drugged out encounter at Ali's exumed gravesite.

 

So I think Ali was the originator of the outfit, and A adopted it to screw with the Liars.

 

Alternatively, Red Coat Limo Driver could have been written to be the Black Widow, but the production team realized it would look really stupid to have someone in a veil driving around town so they swapped in the Red Coat

[cuddlingcrowley]

Ali wore the Red Coat as part of her Vivianne Darkbloom disguise which she was using prior to her disappearance.  The dude who flew her back to town early the morning of the Night of a Thousand Yellow Tops mistook Aria (who put on the red coat for inexplicable reasons) for Vivianne when they first ran into him.  IIRC, the first time any of the PLLs saw a nefarious Red Coat figure was Emily's drugged out encounter at Ali's exumed gravesite.

 

 

Now I'm thinking Aria's other personality will be revealed as Red Coat. I know Red Coat looks kind of leggy and Aria is tiny but girl likes her hills.

 

(and yes I'm among those who thought Ali/Cece were revealed as Red Coat and that was that and was confused when Marlene started talking about revealing who Red Coat is. But i've moved on.)

[Chaos Theory]

This is all a fevered psychotic Spencer Hastings dream. She killed all her friends long ago and is rotting away at Radley about to turn 18 and Tanner is her shrink deciding if she should be let out or not.

This whole story is Spencet changing reality making someone else a villain and her the hero out of some warped sense of guilt and to keep her friends alive.

Edited July 30, 2015 by Chaos Theory

[Bort]

This is all a fevered psychotic Spencer Hastings dream. She killed all her friends long ago and is rotting away at Radley about to turn 18 and Tanner is her shrink deciding if she should be let out or not.

You know what? I would find this an acceptable ending. Certainly bold and keeping with my theory that Spencer did SOMETHING significant on Night of the Living Yellow Tops. And she always seems like she's about to crack.

[mac123x]

This is all a fevered psychotic Spencer Hastings dream. She killed all her friends long ago and is rotting away at Radley about to turn 18 and Tanner is her shrink deciding if she should be let out or not.

 

Spencer gets hit in the head with a golfball and wakes up in bed with Suzanne Plechette.

[raytch]

For those questioning Mona's yoyo attitude this season, this theory is fun :

http://theplltheorist.tumblr.com/post/125407006739/the-biggest-twist-of-all

I'm not a Cece is A theorist but I could totally see Mona acting as a double agent and trying to take down A from the inside. She's done it twice before, what do they say about the third time?

[SadieT]

This is more of a question than a theory, but I don't think we have a question thread, so... When Alison is sharing her initial Charles findings with the girls, she says her dad told her he killed himself when he was 16. Yet he's in Radley till he's about 22 when he escapes on Labor Day 2009. Why did his father think he died 6 years before that? Did Mrs. D. just tell her husband their son was dead for the hell of it while continuing to visit him in Radley? Wouldn't it make more sense for his fake suicide to coincide with his escape? 

[raytch]

This is more of a question than a theory, but I don't think we have a question thread, so... When Alison is sharing her initial Charles findings with the girls, she says her dad told her he killed himself when he was 16. Yet he's in Radley till he's about 22 when he escapes on Labor Day 2009. Why did his father think he died 6 years before that? Did Mrs. D. just tell her husband their son was dead for the hell of it while continuing to visit him in Radley? Wouldn't it make more sense for his fake suicide to coincide with his escape?

I think Mrs D did fake his death at the age of 16 to get him out of Radley (hence the grave at aunt Carol's). But the organ donation certificate was planted by Charles for the girls to find, to make them think he did die at 16.

I have no idea how it's possible that he was a Radley patient. Maybe Mrs D had a deal with someone that he can leave Radley but has to come back every once in a while for an evaluation? Maybe that's where Dr.Palmer and Marion Cavanaugh come in?

Edited August 1, 2015 by raytch

[Crim]

Maybe Mrs D had a deal with someone that he can leave Radley but has to come back every once in a while for an evaluation?

An overnight stay for an evaluation? Mrs D got the phone call about the escape when it was dark outside, didn't she? And why would Charles need to escape when he would have walked out the front (well, back) door anyway? Did he have a plan with Bethany, had to help her escape? They were in contact that much with Charles outside of Radley and no one knew/suspected anything? Did no one screen Bethany's letters at all?

 

As much as the show wanted Toby to have a storyline, the idea that Marion Cavanaugh, a patient, would know about Charles coming in for an evaluation in a hospital the size of Radley is weird. Did she have free reign and saw him and recognized him? I hope not... Was she snooping around in files? Doable, but there was no indication she would. She was in Radley just for depression, wasn't she? Maybe I just don't see it, maybe I lack the imagination, but I hope this storyline is dropped., like other, more interesting ones were. (Of course, less Toby is always a bonus.)

Edited August 2, 2015 by Crim

[raytch]

Marion was a pediatric nurse and she was admitted to Radley for a 72 hours psych evaluation.

We've seen Spencer, Mona also get admitted to Radley for that long. So maybe Charles was there for that long? Or maybe he checked out at 16 but then had to be re admitted because he went all psycho again? And then when he was admitted again Mrs D kept his come back under wraps and most likely brought him in under a different name?

My guess is, Marion knew Charles as a child and saw him again in Radley when she was there for her evaluation. Someone (Mrs D?) wanted her to keep quiet about this and somehow she ended up dead.

I don't know anymore. My head hurts from all this Radley shit.

[Lii]

Radley started offering spa packages to raise funds when Mrs. D joined the board. It's the only logical explanation for their revolving door policy. Because don't worry about it. Charles was just there for a seaweed facial, you guys.

[Crim]

@raytch, right! I was wondering why Charles would escape when he knew he was there for a limited time anyway (the evaluation), but I'd forgotten that Bethany got a letter that called her out, so maybe the escape was either not up to Charles (Bethany already had a plan that included him) or his idea at all (he escaped after Bethany). Of course, this allows for the possibility of a third party who sent the letter to Bethany and possibly made sure the timing was right, while *gag* Charles was manipulated into the events of Night of the Yellow Tops. I don't even want to consider this now.

 

The idea that he was readmitted at some point sounds good, but I wish the show didn't go for the "Mrs D is on the board so can do anything!" plot; it's one thing to have him there for a few days, off the books and with limited contact with trusted staff, and another for Charles to be a long term patient and nothing getting out - it's a hospital, not a secret military facility.

 

Also, do I remember it right that Bethany knew who killed Marion?

Edited August 3, 2015 by Crim

[Lii]

I think we never found out, because Toby cashed the blackmail check from Radley lady that Talia made Spencer get, right? Or is it all running together and am I mixing storylines now?

[raytch]

I think we never found out, because Toby cashed the blackmail check from Radley lady that Talia made Spencer get, right? Or is it all running together and am I mixing storylines now?

You're like the TV DJ.

Talia called the pageant lady on her bullshit with Emily and asked for a big fat check to keep quiet about why Emily wasn't eligible for the beauty contest.

Mr Hastings got Toby the check from Radley after Spencer called some meds company on their cover up for the Marion murder.

[raytch]

@raytch, right! I was wondering why Charles would escape when he knew he was there for a limited time anyway (the evaluation), but I'd forgotten that Bethany got a letter that called her out, so maybe the escape was either not up to Charles (Bethany already had a plan that included him) or his idea at all (he escaped after Bethany). Of course, this allows for the possibility of a third party who sent the letter to Bethany and possibly made sure the timing was right, while *gag* Charles was manipulated into the events of Night of the Yellow Tops. I don't even want to consider this now.

The idea that he was readmitted at some point sounds good, but I wish the show didn't go for the "Mrs D is on the board so can do anything!" plot; it's one thing to have him there for a few days, off the books and with limited contact with trusted staff, and another for Charles to be a long term patient and nothing getting out - it's a hospital, not a secret military facility.

Also, do I remember it right that Bethany knew who killed Marion?

Bethany is suspected to be the fragile patient on the roof that night yes.

There's been some speculation that it was actually Charles but if we go on the fact that he checked out at 16 by faking his death, it wouldn't be possible because he would've been long gone by then.

If he did stay or was readmitted for whatever reason, he could have been the fragile patient and would explain why Mrs D paid off Wilden for the cover up.

I think Charles at some point had a break down and kept coming back for evaluations every now and then, but it was all kept under wraps.

I always thought that Charles was behind the Ali Bethany Letter Exchange and yellow tops as a setup. The biggest question for me at this point is, were Charles and Bethany working together? Or did she escape that night and he followed her to stop her because he somehow knew she wanted to hurt Ali.

[Lii]

You're like the TV DJ.

Talia called the pageant lady on her bullshit with Emily and asked for a big fat check to keep quiet about why Emily wasn't eligible for the beauty contest.

Mr Hastings got Toby the check from Radley after Spencer called some meds company on their cover up for the Marion murder.

Lmao, this show, I can't, just reading that reminds me that I watch a show like this.

So isn't the usual rule for part timers on this show that they either get exposed as temporary A-team backup hired off Craigslist, or they get accused of such and leave in a huff, or they die? Did Talia find a previously-unknown option 4?

Edited August 3, 2015 by Lii

[raytch]

Lmao, this show, I can't, just reading that reminds me that I watch a show like this.

So isn't the usual rule for part timers on this show that they either get exposed as temporary A-team backup hired off Craigslist, or they get accused of such and leave in a huff, or they die? Did Talia find a previously-unknown option 4?

Talia is still lost in Emily's plaid closet.

[Lii]

Hopefully Sara packed that whole shit up with her to go. **shudder**

Do you think if you went far back enough in that thing,Samara might pop out?

[raytch]

Hopefully Sara packed that whole shit up with her to go. **shudder**

Do you think if you went far back enough in that thing,Samara might pop out?

Where do you think Tippi flew out of his cage to? PLAID LAND is where!

[Crim]

I always thought that Charles was behind the Ali Bethany Letter Exchange and yellow tops as a setup. The biggest question for me at this point is, were Charles and Bethany working together? Or did she escape that night and he followed her to stop her because he somehow knew she wanted to hurt Ali.

Yes, exactly. If he escaped to follow her, then there is a chance that the letter and tops were not his plan. (Gah!) But the key missing element here is how free and independent he was wherever he was living at the time. If he was not, then coming to Radley and escaping from there was a better option to reach Rosewood, so the timing of the Yellow Tops Night and his Radley visit would work for him.

 

This might be one of the Missing Old Plots, but I've always thought Ali or CeCe or both had to have been on the Yellow Tops plan, or some variant of it. It's not just that they wore the tops, it's how busy the entire day was for Ali as she was making preparations for something (i.e. leaving). Also, between Mrs D not liking her and the Liars not knowing her at all (they didn't recognize her when they met in season 3), I wonder if CeCe being around Ali's house was that frequent of an occurrence at that point (i.e. just as Ali's friend!twin, after she broke up with Jason). Even if it was, that night we pretty much saw her interact just with other people while Ali was running around being busy with stuff, so it is a bit of an odd choice to be there. And then she presumably left at some point, and Ali was rescued by The G, then just accepted Mona's help instead of calling CeCe right away. Maybe she was in shock and trusted no one after her own mother literally shoved dirt on her, but maybe that's not it, maybe she knew CeCe was busy with something or thought she was in danger too.

 

I wonder if the show runners knew they'd go with Charles at that point, or if the idea behind what we saw of Ali's Last Day But Not Really was different at the time.

[Perfect Xero]

Cece actually broke up with Jason the day after Ali went missing.

[cuddlingcrowley]

So, who do you guys think are Charles, Red Coat and Black Widow? I wanna hear your predictions.

 

Mine are:

 

Charles - Wilden

Red Coat - Aria

Black Widow - Melissa

Edited August 11, 2015 by cuddlingcrowley