A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, bilgistic said:

This right here is how I was fired without cause in being employed by an agency. There was no HR I could go to about my agency rep or my boss at my assignment. There were no steps to correct or remediate whatever imaginary issues they had with me--because there were none. They decided to side with my abusive boss and let me go despite all the value I brought every day.

Even if you had been an employee of the company, HR would not have been on your side. HR's job is to protect the company, not the employees.

[Blergh]

19 hours ago, emma675 said:

Wow, that's crazy. 

I had a recruiter reach out to me by email on a Friday, asking to set up a call about a job I applied for and saying she was excited to speak with me. Monday morning, before I even had a chance to reply to her first email, she sent me a "thanks for applying but we've decided not to pursue you" email. I would have been upset, but all I could do is laugh. The job hunting world is a mess. 

It sure is! When I was between jobs some months ago, I was  out of the house doing a vital errand when I got notice that a recruiter had called my home ( I  only gave my home phone number since I didn't want to have convos about jobs and personal info when out and about among strangers) and said that they were interested in interviewing me for a position. Long-short is that I called the number back within an hour (since I couldn't complete the errand before then), and let them know I was interested in said position so I'd like them to return my call so we could set up an interview time. Despite leaving this same message with their number every single day for a week, I NEVER heard back from them- not even a 'we decided to go with another candidate thanks for your interest' brush off call. I suppose they were unforgiving that I hadn't happened to have been sitting by to instantly answer my home phone when they called and decided to punish me by ghosting me thereafter despite them having left the message they'd been interested in considering me for a position! BOOOO!!!!!!!!

[SuprSuprElevated]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

I don't know about non-tech jobs, but for tech jobs there's a set of specific skills and areas that we want to test for. Even for individual contributor jobs, there are four or five areas where we need to assess expertise - programming, systems design, data analysis, communication, etc. Some companies give candidates take-home exercises, but we prefer to do them in real time. Plus there's the requisite recruiter interview as well as the hiring manager interview (I do those for my candidates only after the've passed the technical interviews, because otherwise it would be too many interviews for me).

For us, this rigorous interview loop is not just to decide whether a candidate is qualified for the job, but also at what level they should be hired. This is necessary to keep the leveling standards consistent for both new and existing employees.

Well, fair enough, but this testing isn't really an interview per se, but a skills/knowledge evaluation.  I still belive that even with ^these requirements, it sounds like the hiring process has gotten out of hand.

[chocolatine]

2 minutes ago, SuprSuprElevated said:

Well, fair enough, but this testing isn't really an interview per se, but a skills/knowledge evaluation.  I still belive that even with ^these requirements, it sounds like the hiring process has gotten out of hand.

It is an interview in the sense that one of our team members spends 45-60 minutes with the candidate asking them questions about that specific area or giving them a problem and talking through the solution with them (even for a programming interview, we don't just sit there watching the candidate code, but ask them questions and give hints if necessary). So we have four or five of those, plus one recruiter and one hiring manager interview. It's time consuming for us just as much as it is for the candidate, but we need to do our due diligence.

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, chocolatine said:

Even if you had been an employee of the company, HR would not have been on your side. HR's job is to protect the company, not the employees.

I fully realize that, but even in the work-at-will trash fire state that is North Carolina, an HR department goes through steps for "employee behavior" remediation and generally cannot legally terminate an employee for a vague (and untrue) reason.

I'm considering legal action, because "there wasn't enough work," but the CFO's daughter was interning, we were down one accountant and another accounting assistant in a position similar to mine was on maternity leave. The reason was complete bullshit. My boss wanted me gone. I kept records of how she treated me.

Yes, I realize the deck is stacked against me, and I mostly just want to move past this mess, but treating loyal, hardworking, smart employees like garbage is abhorrent. I realize that's the American way, but I'm fucking sick of it.

Edited June 25, 2022 by bilgistic

[ginger90]

2 hours ago, bilgistic said:

and generally cannot legally terminate an employee for a vague (and untrue) reason.

This is actually not the case. They can let someone go for any reason, except an illegal one under state or federal law, or simply with no reason given.

[chocolatine]

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I fully realize that, but even in the work-at-will trash fire state that is North Carolina, an HR department goes through steps for "employee behavior" remediation and generally cannot legally terminate an employee for a vague (and untrue) reason.

I'm considering legal action, because "there wasn't enough work," but the CFO's daughter was interning, we were down one accountant and another accounting assistant in a position similar to mine was on maternity leave. The reason was complete bullshit. My boss wanted me gone. I kept records of how she treated me.

Yes, I realize the deck is stacked against me, and I mostly just want to move past this mess, but treating loyal, hardworking, smart employees like garbage is abhorrent. I realize that's the American way, but I'm fucking sick of it.

I'm not a lawyer, but I don't think you have a case for legal action here. As @ginger90 said, it is legal in an at-will employment state to terminate your employment for a vague reason (or no reason at all) as long as the reason is not age/race/religion/gender-based discrimination. And I'm sure you signed paperwork when you started working with the agency acknowledging your at-will status. As one employment lawyer once told me many years ago, "it's not illegal for your employer to be an asshole."

[Blergh]

@bilgistic:

 If you believe you have legal grounds to stop and/or be compensated re your parting ways from your employer and want to pursue that route, I urge you NOT to get too detailed/specific about them online- even here because if the opposition/legal team surfs  then recognizes themselves/specifics about your claims, they can use that to attempt to hurt your case! 

IOW, keep your  best legal proverbial ammo close to your vest and don't unleash it until time for  any hearing/trial. 

[isalicat]

9 hours ago, bilgistic said:

Yes, I realize the deck is stacked against me, and I mostly just want to move past this mess, but treating loyal, hardworking, smart employees like garbage is abhorrent. I realize that's the American way, but I'm fucking sick of it.

Edited 9 hours ago by bilgistic

I so get this...after 38 years as an independent technical recruiter (so not actually inside the system but beholden to it) I saw a lot of "bad faith" actions in terms of employment from both the hiring and the firing end as well as employees that acted extraordinarily entitled.

However! Please do just move into your hopefully happier future rather than pursue any legal action against your previous employer. I can guarantee you should need to work again, being involved in a lawsuit for wrongful termination will nix your prospects for future employment. Unless you are certain you will win BIG money (as in set you up for life) and have a lawyer willing to work entirely on commission, don't do it.

Very good wishes on your next steps towards a significantly better position.

[theredhead77]

10 hours ago, isalicat said:

I can guarantee you should need to work again, being involved in a lawsuit for wrongful termination will nix your prospects for future employment

This is why I didn't peruse legal action against my last employer. The one where there was prevalent bullying inside the department (intentionally excluding me from dept bday lunches to the point the dept. head noticed and had someone else start scheduling them is one of many examples), and a legit hostile work environment. My manager would literally yell at me (people would report him to his boss on my behalf) and threatened me. 

Tomorrow I have a second interview with a hiring manager. I thought I made it through the final round of interviews but she wants to meet with me again. I took a personality assessment last week and I have to assume those results were a match and they wouldn't scheduled the interview despite asking for my availability before giving me the assessment.

I've never had a second interview with the hiring manager and I am so nervous! I have new, more detailed questions prepared. If any hiring managers have suggestions for this situation, I'd love to hear them. And please send all the vibes!

[stewedsquash]

52 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I am so nervous!

Nervous is normal and I hope you get the job. I also hope it is in a non southern state (no snark, I know you are miserable). 

Sending my share of all the vibes.

[bilgistic]

I filed suit against a large former employer for terminating me while I was on sick leave (yeah...). They were going through bankruptcy by the time we settled for a paltry amount, but obviously I've had jobs since then.

It's incredibly sad how employers can do whatever they want and employees just have to take it, and then say thanks for the beating. I expect employees and companies to be accountable and to treat others with respect. That's a basic request. We're expected to jump through fiery hoops to be hired, and "no one wants to work," but we can be fired if we look at someone sideways? NO.

[chocolatine]

4 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

I've never had a second interview with the hiring manager and I am so nervous! I have new, more detailed questions prepared. If any hiring managers have suggestions for this situation, I'd love to hear them. And please send all the vibes!

In tech we usually request an additional interview if an area of concern was brought up in the debrief, but the feedback was otherwise good. That means we think the candidate has potential, but we want to address the concern before making the decision.

Another reason might be that we liked the candidate but think they're a better fit for a different job in the team or company (possibly less senior/well-paid) and want to suss out whether the candidate is open to that, but that conversation is usually led by the recruiter rather than the hiring manager.

Either way, pay very careful attention to what she asks and answer calmly. Don't become defensive if she brings up a concern, and definitely don't insinuate that the concern is a misperception on her part.

[emma675]

I have three interviews tomorrow. Two are second round (they couldn't make two people's schedules work, so I get to interview twice) and one is a first round with a hiring manager. I'm tired already.

[Cloud9Shopper]

I’m probably going to just be applying this week. One of my potential jobs won’t be taking any more steps until after the holiday and then I didn’t get a calendar link to set up another so I have to follow up with the recruiter in another day or so if she doesn’t send it. 

I am getting tired of this too. My ex-coworker who I’ve been talking to only needed 4-5 months to get a job and I’m going into month 10. Different jobs/experiences I know but there’s definitely still a lot of “if you can’t get hired in this market there’s something wrong with you” rhetoric.

Edited June 26, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[Cloud9Shopper]

Someone shared the Monday motivation on our team Slack this morning and it was a video of their teenager singing at a talent competition, to prove a point that while their kid didn’t win they wanted to go out there and try again and were so proud of themselves. Blah blah losing isn’t everything…do you really need to promote your kid to prove that, Janet? It basically felt like a way to say “look how uniquely talented my theater kid is!” I wish we’d just drop this motivational platitude stuff and focus on real things that would make people happier at work. I don’t need a video of someone’s kid to motivate me. 

Then again I am also one of those people who hates where LinkedIn is going with all the obnoxious personal posts these days. Part of the reason why I can’t wait to find a job is because I’ll get to delete my LinkedIn. 

[bilgistic]

Good lord! Literally no one wants to see a coworker's kid not winning a competition! The utter narcissism.

[Cloud9Shopper]

50 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Good lord! Literally no one wants to see a coworker's kid not winning a competition! The utter narcissism.

It felt like it was just a way for her to say “look how talented my theater kid is!” than actually be “motivational.” Most of my team ate it up and gave her a heart emoji on Slack, though. 

[chocolatine]

3 minutes ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Most of my team ate it up and gave her a heart emoji on Slack, though. 

Most likely that they didn't "eat it up" but gave the heart emoji as a strategic move.

[Bookish Jen]

I just found out one of our managers has not been doing her job when it comes to a very key component to our workflow. Instead, it has been passed off to another manager who is already overwhelmed with so much other work. I'm starting to wonder how the original manager keeps her job.

[theredhead77]

22 hours ago, chocolatine said:

In tech we usually request an additional interview if an area of concern was brought up in the debrief, but the feedback was otherwise good. That means we think the candidate has potential, but we want to address the concern before making the decision.

Another reason might be that we liked the candidate but think they're a better fit for a different job in the team or company (possibly less senior/well-paid) and want to suss out whether the candidate is open to that, but that conversation is usually led by the recruiter rather than the hiring manager.

Either way, pay very careful attention to what she asks and answer calmly. Don't become defensive if she brings up a concern, and definitely don't insinuate that the concern is a misperception on her part.

Thank you! This was helpful. It ended up being general interview questions that I'm sure were based off the personality assessment I completed. She is going to make a decision today and I should hear by the end of the week.

[magicdog]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I wish we’d just drop this motivational platitude stuff and focus on real things that would make people happier at work. I don’t need a video of someone’s kid to motivate me.

Before she left, HR used to put all this construction paper decor around the office and bulletin boards with positive messages and wanting us to participate by signing our names to stuff like hand print cut outs.   I felt like I was in grade school again!  Is this what they teach them in HR training academy?

9 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

I'm starting to wonder how the original manager keeps her job.

I can think of two ways: 

1) Blackmail

2) An affair with someone up the chain

[MargeGunderson]

3 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Someone shared the Monday motivation on our team Slack this morning and it was a video of their teenager singing at a talent competition, to prove a point that while their kid didn’t win they wanted to go out there and try again and were so proud of themselves. Blah blah losing isn’t everything…do you really need to promote your kid to prove that, Janet? It basically felt like a way to say “look how uniquely talented my theater kid is!” I wish we’d just drop this motivational platitude stuff and focus on real things that would make people happier at work. I don’t need a video of someone’s kid to motivate me. 

Good lord, that would de-motivate me. 
 

I am in the office today, and I have to say it’s weird to hear other voices while I’m working. Not bad, just weird after so long at home. There are only 10 or so people on site, so it’s pretty quiet on the whole. And, I got to have lunch with my colleagues, so that was nice. 

Edited June 27, 2022 by MargeGunderson

[BlackberryJam]

17 minutes ago, magicdog said:

Before she left, HR used to put all this construction paper decor around the office and bulletin boards with positive messages and wanting us to participate by signing our names to stuff like hand print cut outs.   I felt like I was in grade school again!  Is this what they teach them in HR training academy?

I can think of two ways: 

1) Blackmail

2) An affair with someone up the chain

3. Nepotism. 

[emma675]

In my very first job out of college, I worked at an advertising agency and that world (at least back then) was known for being generally crazy. During my 4 years at that agency, the following happened:

1. The CEO was having an affair with one of the creative directors and they were caught having sex on a boardroom table in the office.

2. One graphic designer who was known for having a temper lost his mind during a meeting and threw an office chair out of a 4th floor window. Luckily, the chair and shattered glass landed in an empty parking lot and no one was hurt, but he kept his job.

3. A copywriter was known for watching porn on his work computer during the day in his cube with the volume on and no headphones or anything. 

It's crazy to think of that stuff now that I've been in the corporate world for years now. And since we didn't have things like Slack or Teams back then, I can't imagine how much crazier it could have been. 

[Moose135]

1 hour ago, magicdog said:

HR used to put all this construction paper decor around the office and bulletin boards with positive messages

[chocolatine]

1 hour ago, Bookish Jen said:

I just found out one of our managers has not been doing her job when it comes to a very key component to our workflow. Instead, it has been passed off to another manager who is already overwhelmed with so much other work. I'm starting to wonder how the original manager keeps her job.

This type of thing is very common in certain companies where posturing counts more than reality. This manager is probably telling everyone that she "delegated" the task because she had much more important things to do with her time.

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

Thank you! This was helpful. It ended up being general interview questions that I'm sure were based off the personality assessment I completed. She is going to make a decision today and I should hear by the end of the week.

Keeping my fingers crossed for you!

[DearEvette]

5 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

I just found out one of our managers has not been doing her job when it comes to a very key component to our workflow. Instead, it has been passed off to another manager who is already overwhelmed with so much other work. I'm starting to wonder how the original manager keeps her job.

I am surprised on he regular how some people manage to not only keep jobs but to fail upward.

There is this one guy who is a Dean of a college at the University I work for.  When I first started working here, he was just the Interim director  of the Adult Education program.  So small potatoes comparably and a fairly self contained unit.  I remember he wanted to purchase some insanely costly software system for non-traditional learners.  I remember him presenting it will full flair at a meeting with IT, the CIO, the CFO, the Bursar and the Registrar.  I was there because it is my office which does all the data and analytics for the college and it was my job to provide the demographic and enrollment data for the past several years to the CFO. 

I remember asking my boss "is he on crack?" after I ran the numbers because the purchase, implementation, integration and support tier we'd have to get with the software, all told would cost the University a cool million dollars. And yet  enrollment of Non-traditional adult learners -- the people who take courses over the summer or just at night, no desire to get a degree -- was less than 2% of our total enrollment over the past several years and was declining.  Revenue for the Adult Ed program would not have paid for that system for the next 20 years.  The CFO's face when he saw the enrollment data vs. the cost projections made my day.  I could see that from his expression he was thinking to himself "Is this guy on crack?"  That proposal was dead in the water before we left that meeting.

But a few years later that same guy got promoted to the Director of the Graduate Studies programs.  Way more important, more money, more regulations.  And he was just as uniformed and clueless as when he was in the prior job.  It was his Associate Dir. who did all the work.  She hated him because he was always off golfing.  But she was so good she made him look good.

Over time he just kept getting promoted and job jumped.  Now he is a full fledged Dean of one of the colleges with the highest enrollment.  And still dumb as rocks.  And it isn't a secret.  In meetings he comes out with the most ass backwards things.  And we are all sitting there all thinking "Dude is still on that pipe."

[SuprSuprElevated]

2 hours ago, DearEvette said:

"Dude is still on that pipe."

He's on somebody's pipe alright.  Or has highly inappropriate photos of someone's pipe >>> wildebeast.

[Cloud9Shopper]

Have a phone interview this morning for a contract job. The recruiter contacted me on LinkedIn; I didn’t apply. I normally don’t consider contract jobs but this one is six months and likely to extend, and if I do get it, there’s nothing that says I can’t keep searching for something permanent full-time in case the contract doesn’t get extended. 

I started my last class of my certificate program last night so I’m hoping a job offer is imminent, whether it’s the contract job or something else altogether. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

Had my phone interview yesterday and the recruiter said the hiring manager may want someone with more experience. (The company prefers someone who has used instructional design software in a professional environment as opposed to only for school or self-guided practice…but how am I supposed to use it on the job if no one will hire me to use it after I created pieces with it on my own time?) 

I also submitted my availability for a second-round interview with a different company and am waiting to get a time back. This is a one-hour Zoom meeting that’s two back-to-back half-hour meetings, if that makes sense.

I feel like my stress about the job hunt is starting to crawl into other areas of my life and making me more irritable. I snapped at people yesterday over non-work things, and even felt annoyed this morning when my class instructor emailed us part to say how some people have already submitted this week’s assignment. Class started Monday and I already have anxiety that people are done with the work for the week. Same thing is happening in the tech sales bootcamp I am in. Everyone else seems to be killing it and getting assignments in quickly. I do get my work done but I feel so far behind everyone else who can shine and get recognized for turning in their assignments.  

I know this will sound lazy but I am so tired of working hard and hoping it will eventually pay off. I just want to get a new job and not have to kill myself competing with people and trying to rise above all these obstacles. 

[KittyMom4]

grrr....something that has been bothering me for a while.....

I am happy that my company is flexible with WFH schedules and allows those that don't need to be in the office to do it full-time and those that just need a couple days a week to do so. HOWEVER, if you have a job that requires you to be in the office in order to perform tasks, then get your ass to the office instead of calling those who are in the office to do it for you. I have one peer (we are admin assists) who somehow has finagled a way to be remote most of the week, but she is constantly emailing or calling for someone to 'help' her by making copies for her boss, setting up a meeting room or making travel arrangements for him. I have recently begun replying with "sorry, I'm too busy with my own to work to assist you." WFH is a wonderful opportunity and she's going to ruin it for those who truly need it and are able to do it. ARGH! 

[JTMacc99]

3 minutes ago, BexKeps said:

HOWEVER, if you have a job that requires you to be in the office in order to perform tasks, then get your ass to the office instead of calling those who are in the office to do it for you.

Woo! Say it out loud; say it often:  If you have a job that requires you to be in the office to perform tasks, then get your ass in the office.

[Bookish Jen]

What kills me is upper management can work from home, but expect lower-level employees to be in the office when they can easily do their jobs from home.

[BlackberryJam]

46 minutes ago, JTMacc99 said:

Woo! Say it out loud; say it often:  If you have a job that requires you to be in the office to perform tasks, then get your ass in the office.

Also, if you are working from home, be available by phone when someone is calling you. Everyone takes bathroom breaks, but if you're not answering your phone for 30-45 minutes while working at home, and it's clear you're not in a meeting of some sort, then you're not working during those work hours. 

[JTMacc99]

13 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

What kills me is upper management can work from home, but expect lower-level employees to be in the office when they can easily do their jobs from home.

At my job, anybody with a VP title or higher isn't automatically given a number of days they are expected to be in office as outlined in the official remote work policy. 

While the executive team CAN work remote, and do so on a case to case basis, they are expected to be in office for the most part. 

I was part of the team that worked on the policy, and to be honest, I hated that the written policy stated that executive management wasn't included. My thought was "So you can get promoted out of work/life balance? This seems like old-school, and frankly male, thinking. What about all of my peers who are working parents (mostly moms) who have risen to the executive level? Now that they've earned a position of importance in the company, their life outside of work is no longer something that matters?"  

[theredhead77]

My former manager (who hired me into the company) used to "work from home" all the time, or would stroll in at 10am and stay until 7 or 8pm. Since being promoted into a VP role he is in the office 5 days a week and requires his team to be in the office, too. This is because it was not a secret that when he was "working from home" he wasn't working. He is the one who pressured his boss (the area President) to require everyone to go back to the office in the middle of COVID (he is in the not quite a denier but "it isn't that bad" camp) causing several outbreaks, when the rest of the building was still on WFH, or rotating schedules. My current position opened up on the west coast and I'm not applying for it, because as much as I could learn from him, his attitude about WFH and COVID made me lose so much respect for him.

[KittyMom4]

51 minutes ago, Bookish Jen said:

What kills me is upper management can work from home, but expect lower-level employees to be in the office when they can easily do their jobs from home.

This is not true in my office, all of my VP's are in the office 5 days a week as is most upper-level management throughout the company, it is mostly IT and call center folks who are full-time remote, and then the rest of the employees in corporate were offered a 1-2 day remote schedule as needed. 

28 minutes ago, BlackberryJam said:

Also, if you are working from home, be available by phone when someone is calling you. Everyone takes bathroom breaks, but if you're not answering your phone for 30-45 minutes while working at home, and it's clear you're not in a meeting of some sort, then you're not working during those work hours. 

When Covid was in full swing the office was barren, My team of about 10 people, 6 of who are executives, were just a few of the people that were here every day throughout the 2 years. I know with all the restrictions on travel and restaurants and stores being closed most of the remote folks didn't have a lot of work and likely didn't work 40 hours a week. But now that everything is fully open in our area, mask mandates are lifted and vaccinations are readily available, there is no excuse for those who need to be in the office to be here. Or to be readily available by phone or email if they are remote and yet there are people who don't respond to emails during a big chunk of the day, or who always have an excuse as to why they didn't answer the phone. I worry that the powers that be will rescind the WFH opportunity if they figure out people are taking advantage of it. 

[DearEvette]

I have to say my University really responded well to WFH.  We closed down to in person instruction and did 100% remote starting mid-Spring 2020 and then all of Fall 2020.  We all rose to the challenge and proved that for those offices that didn't need to be in person we could work remote and have no cessation in quality of work we did.  Obviously there were still people who had to be in person -- facilities, some IT folks, Public safety and various onesie-twosies who had to be there to collect physical mail or do things that required confidential materials or needed to stamped with the official University seal -- things you couldn't take home etc.

So when we came back to full in person again, it was like the genie was out of the bottle.  Also we had lost a lot of staff either through layoffs or other reasons and when replacing folks they realized that they could widen the pool to nationwide talent (not just local) if they had attractive WFH policies.

So we got a committee together and hammered out a WFH policy.  One thing that helped is the University is very clearly divided into logical work divisions, you have Academic Affairs, Student Affairs, Finance and Business Affairs, IT, and Public Infrastructure. So we talked to each division about made sense for their division.  No surprises but Student Affairs and Public Infrastructure had to most jobs where people really had to be onsite the most (facilities, Dining hall, residence halls, Public safety) whereas the other areas could be a lot more flexible.

What came out of it was a very pragmatic, imo, Flexible Working policy where even those who had to be in person could have some sort of flexible arrangement where they might only have to  be onsite 3 days a week or something like that. And every person who requests a Flex Work agreement have to fill out the form clearly delineating the days on vs. off and it has to be re-upped each year in case anything changes etc.  Some people can decide to be 100% onsite (and a surprising number opted for that) and some workers can be 100% remote.  I was asked to be 100% remote by my boss just recently because we relocated to new office space and it isn't 100% suited to our needs so she decided to have some of us 100% remote and rework the office space to be more suitable to the onsite folks. So I will be 100% remote starting Aug 1 (right now I only go in one day a week).  Which is fine with me because as long as I have a computer connection, a VPN and can remote into some onsite servers I can work anywhere.

Professors, though, have to teach onsite.  Our accreditation is not for an online University.  So while we can have some courses online or hybrid our course offerings mostly have to be in person.  Also most of the students like in person instruction so we gotta keep them happy to keep those tuition dollars coming in.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, BexKeps said:

setting up a meeting room or making travel arrangements for him

Wait, what? She can't do these herself online? Aren't those basic requirements of the job?

[KittyMom4]

@bilgistic yes she can and yes they are. Like I said in my earlier post there is a rumor that she is helping babysit her grandchildren and when she attempts to pass off her work to others I have to think it's because she's busy with something other than her job responsibilities. I'm told that they can track when your computer 'sleeps', I don't believe they do it unless it becomes obvious that work isn't getting done, but since I think other admins haven't put their foot down like I did I doubt they'll be looking at her computer any time soon. 

[GHScorpiosRule]

49 minutes ago, DearEvette said:

I have to say my University really responded well to WFH. 

Same with my firm.

Except for essential employees--and cheers for those guys who came in during the pandemic and helped those of us working remotely, EVERYONE worked from home for two years solid.

Some are doing it permanently. Most have a hybrid schedule. I wanted to return full time, but it's been so hard. So I go in three days a week. But it's not set in stone. I can change it depending on circumstances. Like last week, I wasn't feeling well, but I stayed home because I'd come in close contact with a friend who had COVID. I was afraid I'd gotten it, but both the rapid and PCR tests came back negative. But I took sick leave for Wed-Friday, because I didn't have the energy to work.

I'm home this week, because I'm not a 100%, but I am working. And no one is telling me I NEED to come in. I LIKE being in my more spacious office.

[DearEvette]

1 hour ago, BexKeps said:

Like I said in my earlier post there is a rumor that she is helping babysit her grandchildren and when she attempts to pass off her work to others I have to think it's because she's busy with something other than her job responsibilities.

Yeah, our WFH policy explicitly states you can't use the flexible arrangement  to babysit or in place of day care etc. and if there is evidence that that is happening, they'll void out the arrangement. 

Also staff positions were really cut to the bone in some places so there is a sense that you really can't slack because it will become really noticeable.  And since so much communication has been online, people really do expect responses right away.  I love it (and by love I mean, I don't really) when there are emails that go out to like 20 people saying things like 'So-and-so student needs to have x, y, and z done let us know when this has happened.' And everybody always 'responds all' and since it takes an entire two villages to get a new student completely onboarded into the University (room and meal plans, financial aid, registration, health office, advisor assignments, passwords and email accounts, payment plan set ups etc. etc.) it is very much noticed when one of the links in the chain is weak.

It is unfair but upper level management (and I am upper level management so I know a lot of how shit works under the hood) is able to slack in a way that the front line and support staff really can't.

[Kitty Redstone]

5 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

Everyone else seems to be killing it and getting assignments in quickly. I do get my work done but I feel so far behind everyone else who can shine and get recognized for turning in their assignments.  

I know this will sound lazy but I am so tired of working hard and hoping it will eventually pay off. I just want to get a new job and not have to kill myself competing with people and trying to rise above all these obstacles. 

Please take this in the spirit it's given ... while I don't read this board all the time and obviously don't know you, the theme of wanting recognition from others, wanting a time to shine, etc., is something you've said enough that I remember it.  Maybe instead of struggling to please other people, work to please yourself.  The concept of wu wei or effortless achievement might be useful to you; it's been incredibly helpful to my peace of mind.

[bilgistic]

It's natural to want acceptance and recognition from others; those are part of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. As babies, we needed positive vocal interaction/feedback for healthy development. We are taught in school that hard work equals good grades and eventually, a good job. When none of that actually translates to the work environment, all of the sudden, everything we know doesn't make sense.

Should we find value in ourselves as the humans we are? Absolutely. But we should also demand employers treat us like humans and reward us fairly for hard work.

[KittyMom4]

1 hour ago, DearEvette said:

Also staff positions were really cut to the bone in some places so there is a sense that you really can't slack because it will become really noticeable.  And since so much communication has been online, people really do expect responses right away.  I love it (and by love I mean, I don't really) when there are emails that go out to like 20 people saying things like 'So-and-so student needs to have x, y, and z done let us know when this has happened.' And everybody always 'responds all' and since it takes an entire two villages to get a new student completely onboarded into the University (room and meal plans, financial aid, registration, health office, advisor assignments, passwords and email accounts, payment plan set ups etc. etc.) it is very much noticed when one of the links in the chain is weak.

So true. I certainly don't expect an instant response whenever I email her but when I email someone at 9:00am with simple meeting request or question and I don't hear back until 3:30pm it is highly suspect. You're that busy? I think not. Especially as an admin assistant whose job it is to be available at your desk/remote work space the majority of the time. I'm not saying you can't get up and throw in a load of laundry or do the dishes, even in the office I have chores that take me away for 15-20 minutes on occasion but when it is consistently happening it looks bad. 

[Cloud9Shopper]

55 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

It's natural to want acceptance and recognition from others; those are part of Maslow's Hierarchy of Needs. As babies, we needed positive vocal interaction/feedback for healthy development. We are taught in school that hard work equals good grades and eventually, a good job. When none of that actually translates to the work environment, all of the sudden, everything we know doesn't make sense.

Should we find value in ourselves as the humans we are? Absolutely. But we should also demand employers treat us like humans and reward us fairly for hard work.

I’m far out of normal schooling so the stuff about grades doesn’t really translate to me anymore at this point. I just want to have a career I can be proud of and see some recognition and cooperation every so often instead of having to practically drag my boss into professional development conversations because he never follows through on anything he promises me. At some point, it’s put up or shut up. (This is part why I’m job searching.)  I am continuously thinking about what I might be doing wrong in interviews and am trying to improve on those mistakes. I am always making sure my resume is customized to the job I want. 

The job market has gotten a lot harder the last few years. I was a 2008 grad as it is and then COVID hit and sent everyone and their dog to the job market because everyone wanted a career change and to work from home. When I think about I do see why employers want the best people and are picky, but it feels like you need to be right place, right time too sometimes. I just heard from a recruiter who couldn’t place me because of “not enough experience” but my friend who used a recruiter called the recruiter at just the right time to be moved to the top of the hiring pile and landed a job. And don’t get me started on these assessments and case studies and everything….

Edited June 29, 2022 by Cloud9Shopper

[chocolatine]

7 hours ago, Cloud9Shopper said:

I know this will sound lazy but I am so tired of working hard and hoping it will eventually pay off. I just want to get a new job and not have to kill myself competing with people and trying to rise above all these obstacles. 

You don't sound lazy to me at all - quite the opposite, in fact - but it's important to understand that "competing with people" won't stop when you get the job you want, especially if it's in sales. The more advanced you become in your career, the more you have to "compete" and "rise above obstacles." I've been in my career for over 15 years, and while it's very rewarding, I still face obstacles every day.

6 hours ago, Bookish Jen said:

What kills me is upper management can work from home, but expect lower-level employees to be in the office when they can easily do their jobs from home.

That kind of double standard is usually a sign of much bigger problems with the company culture. At my current company, the executives have been working at the office on a regular basis since the reopening, even though the company has a "work from anywhere" policy.

5 hours ago, JTMacc99 said:

I was part of the team that worked on the policy, and to be honest, I hated that the written policy stated that executive management wasn't included. My thought was "So you can get promoted out of work/life balance? This seems like old-school, and frankly male, thinking. What about all of my peers who are working parents (mostly moms) who have risen to the executive level? Now that they've earned a position of importance in the company, their life outside of work is no longer something that matters?"  

In my own experience, starting as an individual contributor 15+ years ago, working my way up to manager, senior manager and now a director, work/life balance did take a hit as I moved up in my career. I see it as a the trade-off I have to make for the increased compensation. My employer is still supportive of work-life balance for everyone, I just have to be creative with how I implement mine.

5 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

My former manager (who hired me into the company) used to "work from home" all the time, or would stroll in at 10am and stay until 7 or 8pm.

What's wrong with working from 10am - 7pm? That's a pretty normal schedule in tech.

[theredhead77]

4 minutes ago, chocolatine said:

What's wrong with working from 10am - 7pm? That's a pretty normal schedule in tech.

It's not a tech job and we're expected to work the same business hours as our stores and customers (typically industrial shops) give or take an hour. When our stores are open from 7am - 4pm or 7:30am - 4pm the hours of 10am - 7pm are not in alignment. 

[PepSinger]

At my previous job, my work from home arrangement infuriated me once a formal policy was implemented. I had to come in to the office three times a week. There was no rhyme or reason to why I had to come in TuWF other than my manager would come in MTuTh. It had nothing to do with the duties of my job. For the record, my job was an executive assistant position. The two people I supported would just come in to the office on the most random days! Again, no set schedule, so it would make scheduling meetings a nightmare because all of a sudden this in person meeting is now virtual, or they would schedule in person meetings on the days when I was remote. Therefore, my manager would have to set up the room. They took total advantage of being able to choose the days they were in office. The other reason I found it infuriating was that the classification of your status (remote, hybrid, in office) was supposed to be related to your job. Remember, I’m an EA. I was told I still had to come into the office three times a week for “office” needs: if the printer broke down, if someone couldn’t find something around the office, etc… it actually had nothing to do with the two people I supported. Every time that I’d show up to the office, work on my computer, and NO ONE would say a word to me until I left for the day would infuriate me. I could’ve done that shit at home! And my commute sucked. Walk to subway, get on subway, hop on shuttle, walk from shuttle to building. 
 

On a side note, they were checking Microsoft Teams to see if we were online and actually working — as if we’re fucking children. The best part? For the longest time, everyone hated Teams. Therefore, a lot of people weren’t using it. I get called into a meeting with my manager, and she said that someone told her I wasn’t working on X day. I said I was. She said that I showed up as offline on Teams. I flat out said that I didn’t know we were supposed to be using teams. They essentially made a policy without telling anyone, and you didn’t know you violated it until someone said something. 

Now I’m not saying that I shouldn’t have gone into the office at all. There were times where I needed to print or scan something. Personally, I should’ve been able to go in 1 day a week, dependent on my COO and ED’s needs and schedule. They were far too rigid with days in and out of office. Not to mention that they once said there was a “policy” that you couldn’t switch your remote days, which after I left I found out to be a crock of shit.

At my new place, my home days align with my chair’s, which makes sense! Now, every once in a while, something will happen and things switch up, but that’s far more logical to me than the BS I was putting up with previously. Sometimes, it takes a new position to make you realize how unnecessarily chaotic the last one was.