A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[theredhead77]

5 hours ago, DeLurker said:

Don't be sorry.  Almost all employment sectors have gender issues, but from what I understand by working with IT, it is even more pronounced there.  

IT is terrible. I spent 10 years dealing with blatant sexism and misogyny, passed over for opportunities and treated like the dumb girl by not only my team but the people I was supporting. Getting out of IT was the best career decision I made.

[janestclair]

I am a teacher, so not in IT, but our IT people are sexist as hell too.  I had a problem with my LCD projector that I use during class.  Teaching human anatomy it's a vital piece of technology for them to be able to SEE the structures I'm talking about. Well, it broke on the first day of school.  They put a new bulb in, assuming that was the issue, but it broke again.  I told the guy from IT that I thought it was the fan, because it was very noisy and would stop working after 15 minutes.  So they take it away (clearly to do nothing on it) and it comes back with the same issue. Rinse and repeat until about April, at which point they finally gave me a new one, and put my old one in another (male) teacher's classroom. I told him to tell them it was the fan, and lo and behold, it got fixed.  They listened when he told them it was the fan, but not when I did.  Rage inducing.  

[bilgistic]

It seems we got an intern this week while I'm off. Go ahead...guess their gender. That makes it now four to one male to female on my team. The intern better not be sitting at my desk this week. Lord knows what he's going to be doing since apparently there's not enough work for the existing new kid now--or more likely, he doesn't take the initiative to do the work that exists.

I'm sure no young women needed summer work.

[theredhead77]

13 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I'm sure no young women needed summer work.

In a round about way, it's probably for the best that they aren't hiring female interns. Sounds like your company is a shittacular place to be a woman.

[bilgistic]

1 hour ago, theredhead77 said:

In a round about way, it's probably for the best that they aren't hiring female interns. Sounds like your company is a shittacular place to be a woman.

That it is.

The guys are trying to do my job this week while I'm off. I told them in no uncertain terms that everything is under control and I don't need their "help". I've checked email and kept the one project on track with the designer. I got everything in order last week so this week would go smoothly.

It's really fucking insulting the way they think they can take over my work. I didn't ask and don't need help. I don't do the same thing to them, and I guess I need to have ANOTHER conversation about it. But then I'll be in the wrong because they "just want to help". Help me by staying the hell off my back.

[Zola]

On 05/07/2017 at 1:37 PM, DeLurker said:

Don't be sorry.  Almost all employment sectors have gender issues, but from what I understand by working with IT, it is even more pronounced there.  

Thank you for all your "likes" and supportive posts. :)

One thing i forgot to mention in my original post was that during my "exit interview" (when an employee resigns he/she usually has to either fill out a questionnaire and/or have a face2face interview with HR identifying the reasons why that person is leaving), my interviewer asked me "Are you a lesbian? Are you a feminist? Do you have an agenda against men?"

It was as if HR were seeing me as the troublemaker rather than the guys in the datacentre! Needless to say i refused to answer his questions.

But even in the world of IT consultancy, I still sometimes face the same old bigotry and prejudice. It's a bit demoralising sometimes. despite trying to ignore it and getting on with the job at hand. 

Anyway, thank you again :) 

[BookWoman56]

10 hours ago, Only Zola said:

One thing i forgot to mention in my original post was that during my "exit interview" (when an employee resigns he/she usually has to either fill out a questionnaire and/or have a face2face interview with HR identifying the reasons why that person is leaving), my interviewer asked me "Are you a lesbian? Are you a feminist? Do you have an agenda against men?"

Are you fucking kidding me? Those questions are so inappropriate and so inherently biased in the way they are presented that I have a hard time believing you didn't tell the interviewer to go to hell. Those are the kinds of questions I might expect from an inept manager, such as a former manager who asked me during the hiring process about my religious beliefs (of course, not during the formal interview where there were witnesses but in a phone call later). But that HR person should know better than to ask that sort of loaded question and essentially imply that you are leaving because you don't play well with males. That crosses the line into unprofessional and unethical behavior, at least IMO.

[Bastet]

It also crosses the line into legally prohibited, but it happens.  Far more than most would suspect.  (And more difficult to prove than many would think.)

HR is supposed to serve as a line of defense for both parties - employee and employer - to educate everyone as to the law and mediate how to resolve disputes within that framework (what is prohibited and thus must be changed, what is a conflict that violates no law yet impedes a good working relationship, how to repair a situation or transfer someone - in a non-retaliatory way - when it's just an untenable situation for the best of everyone, etc.). 

But too many HR reps are ignorant of employment law, up the ass of the employer (whether because a sycophant or fearful), incapable of/unwilling to study and recognize the ways in which ingrained biases affect troubleshooting, etc.  And then you wind up in a situation where an employee must decide whether to leverage their inferior resources to fulfill their burden of proof against a deeper-pocketed employer.

[Zola]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

Are you fucking kidding me? Those questions are so inappropriate and so inherently biased in the way they are presented that I have a hard time believing you didn't tell the interviewer to go to hell. Those are the kinds of questions I might expect from an inept manager, such as a former manager who asked me during the hiring process about my religious beliefs (of course, not during the formal interview where there were witnesses but in a phone call later). But that HR person should know better than to ask that sort of loaded question and essentially imply that you are leaving because you don't play well with males. That crosses the line into unprofessional and unethical behavior, at least IMO.

That was my second reaction after the initial shock of being asked in the first place. But the HR guy said he needed to know because "we are an equal opportunities employer, and diversity across race, gender, sexuality etc is important to us!"

Justified or not, I still didn't answer those particular questions. 

1 hour ago, Bastet said:

It also crosses the line into legally prohibited, but it happens.  Far more than most would suspect.  (And more difficult to prove than many would think.)

HR is supposed to serve as a line of defense for both parties - employee and employer - to educate everyone as to the law and mediate how to resolve disputes within that framework (what is prohibited and thus must be changed, what is a conflict that violates no law yet impedes a good working relationship, how to repair a situation or transfer someone - in a non-retaliatory way - when it's just an untenable situation for the best of everyone, etc.). 

But too many HR reps are ignorant of employment law, up the ass of the employer (whether because a sycophant or fearful), incapable of/unwilling to study and recognize the ways in which ingrained biases affect troubleshooting, etc.  And then you wind up in a situation where an employee must decide whether to leverage their inferior resources to fulfill their burden of proof against a deeper-pocketed employer.

This nails it perfectly. The HR department were a pretty incompetent bunch at the best of times, and their staff turnover was unusually high, not helped by a rather horrid HR director, who was also a close friend to the company chairman. HR passed themselves off as "caring and understanding", but the reality - at least in my case -was somewhat different. 

[MrSmith]

4 hours ago, Only Zola said:

This nails it perfectly. The HR department were a pretty incompetent bunch at the best of times, and their staff turnover was unusually high, not helped by a rather horrid HR director, who was also a close friend to the company chairman. HR passed themselves off as "caring and understanding", but the reality - at least in my case -was somewhat different. 

In 30 years of working, my experience has been that HR is universally clueless and absolutely worthless 100% of the time. I should qualify that by adding "when it comes to the employees' concerns" because the reality is that HR is there only to protect the employer against discrimination complaints and lawsuits. HR's function is exactly the same as the function of "Workers Compensation", which is also there only to protect the employer. So don't let the name "Workers Compensation" fool you because they are not there to help you, either.

[hoosier80]

An absolute week from hell.  Went in feeling half assed one day, only to leave in a hurry.  Yeah got home just in time to start yakking up the little bit of food and drink (soda) I'd had thus far.  So incredibly dizzy and head hurting, especially one ear.  As I'm leaving, two people were sending me messages, well can't you stay for my meeting?  Two separate meetings.  Nope.  I was gone.  Boss was concerned about me, which was a nice change of pace.  The other rat bastards, nope, not one bit. 

So I'm on this project from hell, the cluster fuck of all cluster fucks.  Totally left out in the dark on most parts, then we get information in bits and pieces.  Had a meeting regarding how some data was to be fed into the system and updated.  Something I can't do, because if I could, I would have just done it myself.  Person who was doing it, was all sunshine and light a week or so ago.  I asked two simple questions, and they wrote a lengthy email back to everyone and their brother, saying oh so many questions, they didn't have time for this, it's so unorganized.  All I asked was when the data was going in, as there were two rounds that blew up.  WTF.  And, I'd worked with this person before, and we'd been on good terms.  Again, WTF.  So then, one of the aforementioned rat bastards has to have a call, badgering me.  Yeah we had the call, I'm at home sick on the call, and it was a let's throw her under the bus meeting - what it felt like.  Oh I've done this every day and every day you are sending me emails (nope - two total - not every day).  And one, the person sent back a smiley face to me, like no problem.  Again, WTF.  I really hate the project team, as they all think they are so much more educated and smart, and honestly, they're not.  I suppose because I'm not a VP or part of their little crowd, they feel the need to make themselves look good, but honestly, they are not that intelligent.  They could not have gotten through the coursework I had to get through to get my degree, but I guess because I sit and do my work and am not splashy, they consider me to be a doormat, bookworm, or boring.  After the call, I sat at home crying.  I have considered multiple times of just walking out.   

There are so many details that were discussed in calls months and months prior, which are not documented nor are shared.  The thing is, just like always, somehow all the major things will be ok by the target dates, and all these assholes will get kudos for such a great job.   They could not manage their way out of a wet paper bag.  Yesterday, I got emails that shit wasn't set up correctly.  Well you never asked for it to be set up.  The documents didn't indicate to set up ABCD and then EJLM or whatever.   Then this turd asked how do we get in set up?  The same way you've submitted 47,000 other items you asshole!  Oh and it was super urgent.  Someone asked if Dip could help.  Just no.  I had it done by the end of the day. 

Then, Dip thought I should just sit with them as they did some routine set up stuff.  I said no, I don't have time.  Well, when you get done with that project, then sit with me.  It is lasting for at least two more months, so good luck with that.  Ohhh. 

I feel like buying a shitload of lottery tickets.  I don't need the top prize, even a sizeable lesser amount would be enough for me to walk out on these clowns.

[bilgistic]

I'm so depressed about going back to work Monday. I'm trying to not let it ruin my last 1.5 days off. I'm really going to have to separate myself even further from them when I get back, and cut back my hours to 40, including taking lunches. Since everyone thinks they can do my job, I guess I'll let them. When I'm asked where xyz thing is, I'll just say, "Oh, I thought the new kid took that over."

They REALLY overstepped this week in a lot of ways, but the most egregious was this: They ordered a proof and then ordered the printed copies of a book, and we haven't gone to market with the listing yet. I/We NEVER print the listing book until we go to market because the book/listing details, etc. can change up to the minute before we go to market. We are going to market early this coming week. I'm just dumbfounded. The disrespect in ignoring/taking over the basic aspects of my role is appalling.

Edited July 8, 2017 by bilgistic

[AgentRXS]

Quote

I'm so depressed about going back to work Monday. I'm trying to not let it ruin my last 1.5 days off. I'm really going to have to separate myself even further from them when I get back, and cut back my hours to 40, including taking lunches. Since everyone thinks they can do my job, I guess I'll let them. When I'm asked where xyz thing is, I'll just say, "Oh, I thought the new kid took that over."

You totally should. They showed they didn't appreciate you when they didn't give you the raise you asked for. I would be totally checked out until I found something better. My job has a lot of bullshit that goes along with it, but I least I have the animals to keep me inspired.  I really hope something better comes along for you soon.

[bilgistic]

I think I'll be printing and hanging this up in my cubicle.

[NutMeg]

9 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I think I'll be printing and hanging this up in my cubicle.

That reminds me of a coworker that had a screensaver that read "When you pay peanuts, you get monkeys". It made me like him more :) He looked so straightlaced that I had no idea he had it in him to silently protest in such a fun way. 

[hoosier80]

@bilgistic, let them fuck it up. They seem to think they know better, so let them fuck it up royally. 

I am having to let go of stuff I did, letting the Dip do it.  Dip royally fucked up something where clients could not do transactions.  Boss raked them over the coals.  Dip told me all, saying oh he wants us to do this, but no way to do that.  I said as soon as you said it was an issue, I ran a query, which does show that.  Radio silence. 

I am finally feeling a little better, more human, just tired as hell.  I decided that I am going to take the shitty bull by its horns, and deal with this project head on now.  I went to a dollar store, got cute little folders, going to organize my shit.  I am so tired of these so called management types, who couldn't manage their way out of squat, trying to act like they are so much smarter and superior to me.  Bite me.  A friend gave me a pep talk saying they would be up shit creek without you (they used to work there and knows the score).  The problem was I was thrown in the middle of the clusterfuck, just told here are the files (not all of them - online of course).  Dealing with internal factions fighting, having not all the information or items discussed, so I'm behind the eight ball to start.  I had thought of marching into my boss' office and saying, I can't deal with this, let me out of it, or I'm walking NOW.  I honestly don't know what he'd do because this is make or break for the firm, and no one can step into do what I've been handed to do.  While his boss thought there was a ton to do, he thought it wasn't much.  WRONG.  Lots of moving pieces and parts, with people not nailing down requirements before programmers went to work.  Now the products that are coming out are half assed, with people saying no, we needed xxxx, plus shit coming out of technical testing with blatant errors.   So, I'm going to go in with a gung ho attitude tomorrow and see what happens.  Kills me that they cut the person who did this at our former employer; very shortsighted of management.  While it's not done all the time, they could have trained that person to do other tasks instead of the Dip. 

[BooksRule]

As of 5pm today, my supervisor is on vacation for the next two weeks (woo hoo!).  He will be out of the country (London and then a week in Greece, lucky him) and won't even be checking e-mails.  It's a mixed blessing, because although I usually get tons of stuff done while he's gone (I feel free to make a mess in my office in order to get things done faster and I'm also not being called into his office for quick 5 minutes meetings all the time), I always worry that there will be a crisis that I won't know how to handle.  (I'm in charge of the library when he's away.)  I shouldn't worry too much, though.  If it's too big of a crisis, I can always call on the dean at our main campus for help.  I just hate all of the nitpicky problems that I know will arise (arguments among staff, people coming in late, campus meetings that no one remembered to tell me about, etc.).  I'm hoping that the good outweighs the possible bad and I get a lot accomplished while he's away.  

[jenh526]

On 7/5/2017 at 11:58 AM, theredhead77 said:

IT is terrible. I spent 10 years dealing with blatant sexism and misogyny, passed over for opportunities and treated like the dumb girl by not only my team but the people I was supporting. Getting out of IT was the best career decision I made.

What did you change to? I always hear about women leaving IT but the articles never say where they end up.

[theredhead77]

19 minutes ago, jenh526 said:

What did you change to? I always hear about women leaving IT but the articles never say where they end up.

eCommerce sales and marketing. I support the regional online growth of an international company. I still use my tech knowledge to train and troubleshoot and was tapped by the corporate office as part of the beta test team. I was there about 2 and a half years and was promoted to a manager role doing the same thing. (see the Transitions thread for more)

[bilgistic]

Y'all? Why do I bother trying?

I was all prepared to have a short and productive meeting with my boss this morning. It turned out to be our semi-annual blowout. This is going to sound insane. Strap in.

I had my points all written out and it started out well. I said that I appreciate that we have help now (the new kid, which, oh yeah, for the first time ever, we have an intern who is now doing the kid's work.) WTF is the kid doing, you ask? Well, that's a good question. And why is the kid (who started March 20) supervising the intern? Another great question.

Anyway, I went into my issues, the first of which is that I was upset about the way things went down when I was out of the office "on vacation". I left things so that nothing needed to be done, yet stuff was done to "help". Work under my domain was done w/o my knowledge or consent, and it was screwed up such that I had to do it over again.

Of course, my point of "ask me what I need help on before you 'help'" was completely lost. I literally told him three or four times and it was as if I was speaking a language he doesn't. The issue is not the help; I'm glad to have it (if/when I need it). It's that I need to have control of the processes/steps to be successful at what I do. When there are four people trying to do my job--putting together a publication--I feel chaotic, and it's hard for the design firm as well. They need one point of contact.

I felt like a tattletale, but I needed to talk about what else was bothering me. I told him that it wasn't right that I got my ass chewed out for not taking my laptop home (actually to my sister's home, where I would be staying) over THANKSGIVING WEEKEND two years ago, and ever since, I've had to take it home w/me every.single.night (commercial real estate emergencies are real, y'all!), but the kid never takes his computer home and not a word is said to him. The boss's response: "I haven't needed anything from him after hours." WHAT THE FFFFFUUUUUUUUCCCCCCCKKKKKK??????????

He said it's obvious I don't want to be there. To myself: "YEP!" He said that I'm in a bad mood when I come in. Dude, I'm not a morning person. You know this after three years! I told them at the interview that I wouldn't be bouncing in every morning. I come in, do my work and do a good job, but I'm not going to be your cheerleader. Don't blame me because you didn't believe me. Since when did "stupid and happy and walks around not doing shit all day" win out over "smart, quiet and productive"?

He bitched about me being late. I get in anytime between 8:50 to 9:15, depending on traffic. He's always hated me not coming in at 8, but what he fails to comprehend for some reason after three goddamned years is that our designers are on the west coast. They don't even start work until 11 or 12 our time. If I leave early because I came in early, I'm not getting a nearly full day from them. And also, what the hell does it matter 10 minutes early one day or 10 minutes late the next? At least I stay in my seat and work. This isn't Taco Bell and there isn't a timeclock.

It just became this ball of grossness of him telling me that basically, I had no reason to feel how I felt.

He also told me I'm on the intra-company IM "all the time". I was like, "The hell?" 1) I often collaborate with/bounce ideas off/use IM in lieu of email with my peers, people in other offices, etc. 2) He doesn't have time for me such that I have to email, IM and vocally ask him literally three and four times for something, nor doesn't see that his new golden boy isn't taking home his computer, but he's watching over my shoulder for a little window to pop up? Get a fucking hobby.

And thanks for allowing me to come to you with my concerns, asshole.

[riley702]

Wow. No advice, but tons of sympathy.

[theredhead77]

@bilgistic document document document! This is an ongoing pattern. Are you in a position where you can resign without having something else lined up or resign as a constructive discharge (which would qualify you for UI).

As much as it will suck for you, play their game. Come in at 8am your time. Stay off IM, put in your time and leave, even if your customers on the west coast are still open. Start documenting what you are doing and and all the time you spend fixing the work someone else screwed up.

[bilgistic]

I would be OK financially for probably six months if I lost my job and had nothing else. I really want to quit and just get some rest, but then I'd have to deal with the "why did you quit" question in job interviews. I'm so beat down that I don't have the energy or self-esteem to really look for something else. I hate that I've let it get to this point. I'm depressed (more depressed), and my psychiatrist's answer is for me to get a new job.

[theredhead77]

9 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I would be OK financially for probably six months if I lost my job and had nothing else. I really want to quit and just get some rest, but then I'd have to deal with the "why did you quit" question in job interviews. I'm so beat down that I don't have the energy or self-esteem to really look for something else. I hate that I've let it get to this point. I'm depressed (more depressed), and my psychiatrist's answer is for me to get a new job.

That was exactly what happened in my old job. Beat down to the point I couldn't look. Will your doctor write you out on stress leave for a few weeks? It would be a medical leave, they can't fire you for it or contact you while you're on it.

Edited July 18, 2017 by theredhead77

[AgentRXS]

Quote

I would be OK financially for probably six months if I lost my job and had nothing else. I really want to quit and just get some rest, but then I'd have to deal with the "why did you quit" question in job interviews.

Oh @bilgistic I really do hope you quit (or take a leave) and hit the ground running to find something else. This is such a toxic environment for you and you don't deserve it. Please do what's best for you....whatever that is. These people are draining you of your emotional energy. At the end of the day, they are going home to their carefree lifestyles, not thinking about you at all. I do hope you can find a more suitable work environment.

[BookWoman56]

I had to walk away from my work laptop for a while today so that I wouldn't send an email to someone and ask her WTF is wrong with her. I am assisting a couple of teams who are not teams I normally work with on a large project. In the middle of last week, I got a phone call from my manager's manager, asking me to assist with something else related to the project . There is documentation that a few teams all need to do, that will ultimately become part of a much larger document in a few months. This piece was assigned in mid-May and is due at the end of July; there were some interim checkpoints. I hit 75% complete on mine at the checkpoint when 50% was supposed to be done, and am in good shape to wind it up in the next couple of days. However, one other team had not even begun theirs, and that's what my manager's manager asked me to assist with, essentially me taking over writing the document for that team by pulling info from them and turning it into something at least coherent. I touched base with the team lead the same day I was asked to help out, and she insisted that I have a draft ready for her review on Friday. Okay, you have not written a single word for this in two months, yet you expect me to produce a draft in two days? I did what I could, based on the very skimpy and horribly written related documentation someone on her team had done, and sent it to her late Friday. Her response was essentially: My team and I will have to make changes to make this accurate.  Ya think? Did you not read my email in which I clearly stated that I knew likely some of it wasn't entirely accurate because I had to guess at a lot of things, and so you would need to check it for factual errors, etc.?  I'm sorry, but you had two months to work on this document, during which time you wrote not one word for it, and now you're going to bitch that I can't read your mind to write up what you intend to do for the project? 

And for the perfect end to today, she had set up a meeting for 5pm my time, which is normally after I get done for the day. I agreed because she is on the west coast and said her schedule was pretty full. So I joined the online meeting and dialed into the bridge number, and...crickets. One of her team had joined the online meeting as well, and after 10 minutes I IMd her and said, Team lead's status is showing as away for more than an hour, it's 10 minutes past when the meeting was supposed to start, so I don't think she's going to show up.  Her person said, oh, team lead had an external appointment; I texted her to see if she's coming but she hasn't responded.  At which point I said, maybe it's best if we just reschedule. Her person responds: I'll let her know you want to reschedule.  And I'm having to restrain myself from saying, no, I don't want to reschedule. But when your boss sets up a meeting with me, then books an outside appointment and doesn't bother to inform me that she may be extremely late to the meeting or miss it entirely, then the only logical solution is to reschedule.  Sorry, but I'm not going to sit there for another 30 minutes or so outside of my normal work hours on the off chance that she might get back from her appointment and start the fucking meeting that she had arranged. FFS, how hard is it to let someone know that you probably will not be able to meet as previously scheduled because of whatever reasons? That's just common courtesy.

[BookWoman56]

3 hours ago, bilgistic said:

I would be OK financially for probably six months if I lost my job and had nothing else. I really want to quit and just get some rest, but then I'd have to deal with the "why did you quit" question in job interviews. I'm so beat down that I don't have the energy or self-esteem to really look for something else. I hate that I've let it get to this point. I'm depressed (more depressed), and my psychiatrist's answer is for me to get a new job.

Sadly, I speak from experience when I say that if your psychiatrist is telling you to get a new job, you need to do it. Many years ago I was in a job that I really liked but the stress and hours were insane, and through a weird combination of circumstances that culminated in a complete clusterfuck of the project I was working on, I got stuck working even crazier hours for about 3 months. I was literally staying at work until around 2am, going home to shower and sleep for a few hours, and then arriving back at work around 7am. I collapsed eventually and ended up in the hospital, in the wing for recovering drug/alcohol addicts, etc. The other patients didn't trust me because I was not put on any meds; my physician's orders were to sleep regular hours for a couple of days. But at our first group therapy session, the therapist was going around the room asking people about their jobs, personal lives, why they were stressed, etc. When he got to me, and I said, I work at company ABC, he immediately responded, you need to get a new job now. He related he'd had other patients from our company and the stress levels were making people sick. I did end up being out on short-term disability for a couple of weeks, and that time was completely necessary for me to recuperate and begin to think seriously about next steps.  I didn't leave immediately, but spent time after that with a lot less emotional investment in the job, and a lot more leveraging my experience and contacts into being able to work on a contract basis for one of our clients, at roughly double the pay and being able to work entirely from home with no fixed schedule other than a phone conference once every couple of weeks. I had to produce documentation and as long as I met the deadlines, they didn't care if I worked in the middle of the day or the middle of the night.

I'm not saying it's easy to find another job quickly. But your area has just taken on at least a couple of new people, your pseudoboss is telling you that it's obvious you don't want to be there, and there's a long history of crap they have done, up to and including promising you raises that didn't really materialize, etc.  I can't help but feel that some of the stuff now is a deliberate attempt to provoke you into quitting. And when it gets to that point, you need to psych yourself up to extricate yourself from this horribly dysfunctional workplace environment, give yourself some down time, and then find a job that pays you what you're worth and doesn't treat you badly. Your job has become that bad boyfriend that you know in your gut you need to dump but you stay because it's familiar, even if what's familiar is horrible. 

[emma675]

bilgistic, you need to get out before it gets worse. I'm in the same boat, I care so much about my work and want to do a good job, but I can't sustain the hours or the workload for much longer. And I'm in Marketing, FFS, I'm not curing cancer. I'm trying so hard to find something else while I'm still employed but I don't know how much longer I'll be able to do that. I'm just mentally beat down, I've put on weight, I'm tired from lack of sleep, etc. Whenever I have a burst of energy at home I work on my resume and job leads, but it's hard. Have you looked into a professional recruiter/head hunter who could maybe look for you?

[ennui]

14 hours ago, bilgistic said:

 I'd have to deal with the "why did you quit" question in job interviews. 

https://www.thebalance.com/top-good-reasons-to-quit-your-job-2061010

[auntlada]

@bilgistic, this reason (from a link in that article) sounds good: I'm looking for a new challenge and to grow my career and I couldn't job hunt part time while working.

[Bastet]

I've always liked the few times a candidate has told me she or he quit because the work environment was toxic.  It's a perfectly valid reason, and I appreciate the honesty.  We'll chat a little bit about what made it so unbearable, of course, to make sure it's not "They expected me to do my job!" or something, and then it's a non-issue when considering the application.

I'm also a proponent of periodic breaks, so I don't care if an employment gap is become someone saved up to be able to take a few months to travel, take a class, plop down on the couch to work through one's entire movie collection, whatever, before regrouping and finding a new job.  So long as they had a good work ethic at their previous jobs (including giving proper notice and wrapping things up responsibly), and don't have a pattern of flitting from one job to the next after short periods of time, I'm fine with a whole lot of reasons for leaving, and reasons for not having something else lined up first.

[bilgistic]

In 2001, I had to take sick leave from a job because I completely shut down from exhaustion and depression. I went on short-term disability and a daily outpatient program at the hospital. I ended up being out of work for a year. I'm terrified of that happening again. I know I'm in a very bad situation, and my depression is peaking, but I am so scared of being out of work again. While I freelanced, I was out of full-time work for four years before this job. That makes my depression HORRIFIC. I'm already heavily medicated. Just getting up in the morning is a Herculean feat. I've struggled with depression and anxiety my entire life.

I don't even know how to go about getting a recruiter to conduct a search for me. How does that work? I really like most of the work I do (just not the industry) and I have such pride in doing the best job I can. I wish that mattered to anyone. I can't understand why it doesn't.

I appreciate y'all so much. I have to figure out what to do. I feel so defeated after yesterday's "discussion" with my boss. I feel like I've tried everything (I've literally talked to EVERYONE who could make any kind of difference) and no matter what, I'm wrong. He talks all about teamwork, but it's really all about who's exactly like him. That's not a team. That's an army of clones.

Edited July 18, 2017 by bilgistic

[theredhead77]

My strong advice is to ask your doctor to write you out on medical leave so you can qualify for short term disability. Use that time to regroup and job hunt. Return to work, hopefully with a new job lined up and give notice. It will be illegal for them to fire you or contact you for assistance while you are out. You shouldn't even be able to take any company possessions with you (phone, laptop).

I've never had good luck with recruiters; it may have been my industry but I found the process aggravating and defeating.

Edited July 18, 2017 by theredhead77
to and from are not the same.

[langway]

I work at a bank. An unconventional bank, mind you. Our hours of operations are 11-7:30 and we're open 7 days a week. We are also inside of a grocery store. Like I said, unconventional. A month after I was hired, we lost 3 members of staff (we're supposed to have 6, 7 if you include our manager). So it came down to our manager, 2 veterans, and myself, being very very new. I was thrown to the wolves more or less, but now, 5 months later, we're fully staffed and I'm participating in helping train these people.

One of them is a huge, huge problem. This 20 year old douchebag who has close to zero knowledge of banking, credit, basic math, and on top of that, can't count money. I was aware of this before he even started because he used to work at the grocery store I shop at and I got to talking with one of the managers there who was ringing me up while I had my name tag on with the company name on it. He said "Do you work at X Bank?" Yes, I do "Well, good luck with that guy. His drawer was never even."  I don't think this 20 year old d-bag has ever balanced since he got here. He is always short at least $10.00, gives incorrect information to customers, rubs people the wrong way, he's been caught in lie after lie, etc. How he still has a job here I have no idea. He also makes it a point to talk shit about me to everyone, mostly because I don't deal with his shit. I guess he's not used to a woman telling him what's what. He leaves his drawer unlocked, leaves his computer unlocked, leaves his drawer key laying around, etc. Sorry if you don't like being told to lock your shit up, but if our auditor was here while he did those things, we'd be in serious hot water. He needs to make it a habit to do these things. I was pretty polite when I told him I didn't mean to be a nag, but you can't leave your crap like this. My boyfriend stopped in on my day off to cash his check and this asshole literally said "So what are you, Langway's boyfriend?" My boyfriend said yeah. He said "Oh, well that must suck. She's kind of a bitch. Good luck with that one." Motherfucker.

But it gets worse with this tool because I think he might be stealing money. We had a gift card we'd use to purchase snacks, waters, etc for our clients at our sister branch (our staff has to work at two branches), and my coworker said that she gave it to him to buy waters and she's almost positive he didn't put it back in the safe. I asked her why she didn't bring this up to our manager. She said she's not positive. I opened the safe and the card isn't in there. So it's not in here and he was the last one to have it, you need to tell the manager. I don't think she ever did it but I did let our second in command know what I heard. Whether anything came of this, I have no idea. The same coworker said she saw him trying to cash our demo checks (dollar checks we give to customers) at the ATM and then asked what he was doing. He said "I need money to buy cigarettes" and she said "Well, those are for the customers." I, once again, am encouraging her to take this to the manager, but if she doesn't, I will. Dealing with a shitstain thief is the last thing I want to deal with. 

[Zola]

Now that I am a self-employed IT Consultant (not working through any agency either), I have to do everything myself, and not just going out to clients and sorting out their problems/projects ; but also the administration side, the diary management, and the book-keeping - which is all fine because it keeps my overheads down (although I do have an accountant).

One niggle that I have noticed since becoming a consultant is how some clients cancel meetings on you more or less at  the very last minute! There's been quite a few occasions where appointments/meetings have been arranged and accepted weeks in advance, only to get a call or mail on the morning to say they can't make it for one reason or another (either through illness/holiday/or double-booking)

Ideally something like 24 hours notice would be preferred, but of course illness can happen at any time. Nevertheless, to be told just hours before the appointed time is a pain, especially if I have to drive, take the train or plane. And it's also unfortunate that the client couldn't arrange someone else to take that person's place - more so given that it's an IT-related issue and therefore must be known to just more than my appointee!

I have also had two instances where I have driven 200 miles to a client, only to be told at reception that the appointee is actually on holiday and nobody bothered to check his diary to let me know sooner! (I did add the travelling cost to my bill to them, which they disputed because there was no actual meeting. But they subsequently paid up)

[AgentRXS]

Quote

I don't even know how to go about getting a recruiter to conduct a search for me. How does that work? I really like most of the work I do (just not the industry) and I have such pride in doing the best job I can. I wish that mattered to anyone. I can't understand why it doesn't.

I appreciate y'all so much. I have to figure out what to do. I feel so defeated after yesterday's "discussion" with my boss. I feel like I've tried everything (I've literally talked to EVERYONE who could make any kind of difference) and no matter what, I'm wrong. He talks all about teamwork, but it's really all about who's exactly like him. That's not a team. That's an army of clones.

They know you do a good job. They also know they can underpay you and you'll stay. They know you will do the work while they slack off....so that's what they are doing it and will continue to do. Nothing will ever get better for you there, because they are not good people. Your boss can't identify with you so therefore you don't matter to him. Yes that makes him a supreme douche, but somebody there likes him, so he's not going anywhere.

I also suffer from depression so I know how hard just getting out of bed and leaving the house is.  If I were you, I would start small. Give yourself a goal of applying to like maybe 5 jobs week. Set about an hour each night going through the job websites and apply for stuff. Apply for stuff you that you aren't even interested but is on your pay scale. If the company you aren't interested in calls back, you can hone your interview skills---a lot of pressure is taken off when its not a job your invested in getting. And who knows? Maybe you'll find a different career path.

[MrSmith]

I was going to complain about being in all day meetings Monday, Tuesday, and today. After reading everyone else's posts .... yeah, I have nothing to complain about. My sympathies with all of you. I am truly at a loss for words.

[BookWoman56]

Most of the time I have relatively few complaints about my job.  When I took my current position, I negotiated being able to work from home full-time. I've mentioned before that I'm a tech writer, and mostly work on insanely large documents (300-500 pages typically), and so need a lot of silence and solitude to concentrate.  I'm also not a people person; I hate idle chit-chat that tends to occur in office settings. Finally, people who are perky and cheerful make me stabby. I'm fortunate to have a manager who recognizes why I need to work alone and is okay with it; I'm sometimes amused by the fact that in our area of the financial institution, it's a requirement that people are set up to be able to work from home in the event of a power outage, severe weather, etc. I get along fine with most of my colleagues. But over the last 9 months or so, other teams that are under the same department that I am in have requested my help, and it's usually been one or two individuals on those teams that are difficult to work with. Right now, though, difficult person from Team A is throwing a fit about something that difficult person from Team B has done, and I'm just sitting back observing all the drama. It's at least mildly entertaining. 

On a more serious note, though, a few years ago I was in a job with a manager that I had come to loathe, doing work that I could more or less do in my sleep, and I was miserable. I kept hoping things would improve but eventually realized I would have to be my own change agent. That's when I started looking for a position elsewhere in the same company, and although it took a few months, I'm much better off in salary and type of work than I was in the previous position. That change has made a huge difference in the way I feel about myself and life in general. So, if you are stuck in a job you hate or working with managers/colleagues you hate, my suggestion is start out slowly but do start putting in applications for other positions.  There are some absolutely horrible jobs and managers out there, but there are also jobs that are a better fit and managers whose primary purpose in life is not to create a toxic work environment.

[bilgistic]

2 hours ago, MrSmith said:

I was going to complain about being in all day meetings Monday, Tuesday, and today. After reading everyone else's posts .... yeah, I have nothing to complain about. My sympathies with all of you. I am truly at a loss for words.

Feel free to complain! Your issues are important to you, and we're all here to bitch and be sounding boards.

And on that note, I'll continue to complain. There's a part of me that wants to go back to my boss and say, "That meeting Monday was gross; let's try again." Why? I know rationally it won't go any differently. It will devolve into an attack on who I am as it always does. I guess I have my father's abandonment to thank for always trying to fix hopeless situations.

Part of me wants to tell him to just give me a severance package and "let" me leave if I'm so terrible, but he wouldn't do it in February. It really is like an abusive boyfriend relationship.

One thing I am doing since I returned from vacation is taking a lunch away from my desk every day if I can. I've done it every day except once so far. I've also cut back my hours. Since I'm now making less money than before my job reclassification, I'm going to work less. Yes, I'm actually making less! My last six paychecks were $500 less in total than the six at the beginning of the year before my reclassification. If there's no emergency, I don't need to be here 10 and 11 hours a day. And the free work I gave over my vacation? I'm an idiot.

I am so torn. I like most of what I do, and it's a unique combination that capitalizes on a lot of my skills. Some of my skills are woefully underused and I'm not given enough autonomy on things that are laughably basic, while I'm allowed to run with some things that are over my head. There's no reason to it other than someone else either doesn't want to do whatever it is or thinks they know how to do it better, depending upon the task.

My company is bullshit and doesn't stand behind its supposed values. My boss is garbage. I don't like the industry or what it's about. So I'm left with caring quite a bit about my designers, a few coworkers (I don't work with them directly) and the work. The designers I would lose, but I've made a friend in one of them. I'd probably lose touch with coworkers. The work I might be able to get something similar but closer to what I want. Big maybe.

I know I need to leave. My way of protecting myself is to be even more insular and introverted. Apparently that's taken as a "bad mood". A large part of me doesn't care because that's my boss's perception. He's a raging extrovert and narcissist and needs to be liked and gazed upon with doe eyes. On the other hand, I have to work here until I can get out. I am incapable of playing games and I refuse to do so. How do I deal with all of this? All I want to do is hide under the covers in bed.

[ennui]

On 7/18/2017 at 11:09 AM, bilgistic said:

I don't even know how to go about getting a recruiter to conduct a search for me.

Put your resume and profile on Monster.  You'll be contacted by more recruiters than you can imagine. 

[Zola]

6 minutes ago, ennui said:

Put your resume and profile on Monster.  You'll be contacted by more recruiters than you can imagine. 

Monster is a great place to get yourself noticed by potential employers/recruiters. The downside is that you're giving out a lot of PI on your CV that could be sold or even misused. But by and large Monster is very good and pretty easy to use.

[DeLurker]

@bilgistic - is there another office of the same company you would be willing to move for?  I've found the regional offices of the commercial lenders I've worked for take on very defined personalities set by the local big dog.  Plus top producers had a ton of sway - I ended up supporting two big ones remotely (I was in So Cal, 1 in Bethesda and 1 in Dallas) instead of them using the people in their own office because they liked my work & approach better.  Ended up giving me a invisible shield to my own office's shit storm (well most of it).

[ennui]

12 minutes ago, Only Zola said:

Monster is a great place to get yourself noticed by potential employers/recruiters. The downside is that you're giving out a lot of PI on your CV that could be sold or even misused. But by and large Monster is very good and pretty easy to use.

There are a lot of job sites -- Zip Recruiter, Monster, Career Builder. Don't forget to look on Craigslist for jobs. Your local unemployment center will have job listings. 

[BookWoman56]

I used to get a lot of calls/emails from recruiters who found my resume on Monster or Indeed; still get them occasionally but not as many. For the last couple of years, though, almost all of the contacts from recruiters have come from those who viewed my profile on LinkedIn.  So, if you want to job search, keep in mind what @ennui said about there being a lot of job sites. Don't limit yourself to just one. A few recruiters have told me they prefer LinkedIn because they can see the recommendations there from former colleagues, plus your various skills that people have confirmed, but I wouldn't stick to just one site.

[bilgistic]

I'm on CareerBuilder, Indeed, LinkedIn, The Ladders, others I can't remember. I quit using Monster years ago because there was so much garbage (like "work from home" and "sales" with no experience jobs) on there. Has it gotten better?

The way my company is structured, there's really nowhere else for me to go. I've outgrown the position I was hired for, which is why the reclassification was necessary, plus I was/am doing far more advanced work than the position entailed. Basically, they wanted to hire someone at a fairly low- to mid-level at a cheap rate (again, I was desperate) to do advanced-level work. There aren't many positions like mine. There might be one in each major market. It's pretty much glorified admins and then brokers (beyond corp structure like HR, accounting, etc.). There's the corp marketing department, but they get paid even worse.

I want out of the company, though. O-U-T. Out of the industry. These things I know, even if I know nothing else.

[MargeGunderson]

@bilgistic, I worked for a really difficult manager my first few years in my current job. Not as consistently bad as your manager, but she certainly had her crazy moments. I read a few books that helped me deal with the situation. It didn't solve it, but I felt better able to handle it (most days). Working with You Is Killing Me was my favorite. It doesn't try to convince you that you can change others but focuses on your reactions. It's much more realistic than all that advice on how to get your manager and coworkers to like you better. 

(I got lucky and my manager was laid off; the craziness may or may not been the reason. My new manager is awesome, the first one I've had in a few jobs)

Edited July 20, 2017 by MargeGunderson

[ennui]

19 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I quit using Monster years ago because there was so much garbage (like "work from home" and "sales" with no experience jobs) on there. Has it gotten better?

Not really, but it is a site used by recruiters for the most part, and that was what you mentioned. 

[theredhead77]

@bilgistic can you give us a bullet point of your top 5 responsibilities without the technical lingo? Perhaps we can think of how your skills will translate into other fields.

[BooksRule]

I posted on Friday that my boss was going to be out of the country for two weeks, leaving me in charge.  I had hoped to go at least a week before we had a big crisis.  Well, I made it through almost two full business days.  One of the part-time people that comes in evenings and weekends to help work with our students got tired of the staff person who is covering that department temporarily until we can hire someone, got into an argument with her and quit on the spot.  (The person covering the department works in my department, but a lot of our work can wait if necessary and the vacant position had to have someone in it at all times, since it's working directly with students and if we don't have happy students, we're all out of jobs!)  My staff person (the one he clashed with) tends to create her own stress.  The person who had the job seemed to do fine, but she has made it seem like this is the busiest most stressful job of all time.  She's always been a little abrupt and bossy, but it's really come out in the last few days and the part-time person had had enough.  I talked to him and he agreed to work this evening (I'm hoping he'll stay until the boss comes back--then it's not my problem!).  I also spoke to my staff person and reminded her that her job was ONLY to keep the department running in the interim--she wasn't there to change or improve things.  I also reminded her that our part-time people are retirees who don't need this job--they just want to make extra money, and that we need them a lot more than they need us and to be polite and make nice! (an exception being if they started it by being rude or abusive, but they are the nicest people ever and I can't see that happening).  Anyway, it was a long day and I would love a big glass of wine, but it's not in my calorie range for today, so a big glass of ice water will do (and a good dinner when it's finished cooking). 

[hoosier80]

@bilgistic, you need to get out of there.  I was in a position that I hated.  I didn't mind the work, but the assholes in charge were too much.  I'd been promised a managerial job and of course, they screwed me over.  After that, nope, couldn't deal with them.  I started putting out resumes, looking beyond the industry (it's very specific) but rather the skill sets.  What was really good is that I got an offer from a company my rat bastard boss had been trying (over and over) to get into.  They offered me a job.  Was he pissed!!  Then that location of the company was sold off, to a shitty corporation, the original client we serviced went bankrupt, and yeah I was looking for another job after 5 years.  But I never regretted leaving.  One friend, when I said oh I got a new job, said thank God.  That old job was going to kill you, you were always upset.  Not that I don't get upset now, but that was a real shitty management team we had.  If any of the top managers (or my rb manager) said hello, it was like oh shit, what do they want from me today?  Otherwise, I could've been laying in the aisle with blood streaming out of my eye sockets and they would have walked right by.

I've been struggling with health issues.  Found out an inner ear infection along with outer infection.  Just great.  I had to leave early one day, everything was spinning.  I waited until I felt ok enough to drive home.  Two asshats were like oh you can't stay for my meeting.  Hell no.  In the meantime, I've joined a project - at the 11th hour, to help out with vetting items.  There's at least 100 items to be implemented for a new client - by September.  Like a bazillion hours of programming in two months.  Right.  That will happen.  I will also be pulling my ice skates out of storage because hell will have frozen over.

It's difficult because I don't know what each item entails or any conversations or any of the outside parties in this mess.  So, I'm trying to catch up, then I have the PM bugging me, do you have this done, do you have that done?  They want everything done their way, which is not my way.  I get shit done, so it's not like I'm lazy.  I think they want me to magically pull this out of my ass or something.  Then the items are not in place to review, programming has to be done, someone else has to do abcd - so it's not under our control.  The PM did come over today and said I'm going to go postal on some of these folks yet.  Maybe, they're finally getting it.  Then PM had a VP handle some shit for them - calling a meeting for stuff that won't happen until later this month.  WTF?  Like I'm not capable of handling it?  Then they were all back to being chummy.  Mercurial is an understatement.

Spoke with my boss and he was like you're doing a great job.  Again, WTF.  I feel like I'm just paddling upstream and getting nowhere.  He's finally figured out that Dip has no clue what they're doing. Something was royally jacked up and although there's no proof, he's convinced Dip did it.  I was in the system in some of the same screens, but as I explained, that particular item - I'd updated it in January, and I saved what I had done - ran a data query right afterwards.  He was like yeah Dip did it, probably not intentionally but - clueless.  Dip tried to get me to help them, the usual bombarding me with questions they should know or be able to look up or figure out, and I was like no.  Dip asked oh can I help you with xxxx?  I saw it's out there.  Yeah, it's done.  The order came in two days ago, I updated the stuff and sent out reports - which Dip was copied on the email.  I said didn't you see that?  Huh?  The total WTF moment of the week was when Dip couldn't figure out why the worksheet was printing all on one page - and it was so tiny, too!!  I just don't get it.  I said let me look, asking if they checked the print settings?  Huh?  Deer in headlights look more aware.  Yeah it was set to fit to one page, with the scale at around 15%.  Superman couldn't have read it.  I'm like change the fit to one page to the other option (whatever it is), and scale it to like 90% (it was a huge worksheet - out like 35 or more columns).  Finally, I was like let me print it.   If we have a form that says, initial here, I have to tag it and give it back and say, you didn't initial, or I can't read or understand what you're saying here (under comments section).  We have auditors that go through our stuff, too.  Cannot wait for that. 

And not sure who mentioned it, but I come in a little later and then stay later.  Everyone else on the team now comes in at the crack of dawn (there is no work then) and leaves by 3.  I really need to speak to boss about that.  Then there are orders that no one touches.  One sat there all day Monday, then I saw it was fairly urgent and did it.  Of course, everyone was gone by then.  Three hours later, I had it all done.  As it'll have to be done again, I chatted with a tech person, and found a way to get the updates automated.  Today, Dip asked oh what do 'we' need to do.  Nothing, I have it handled.  Thanks for asking now that it's all done.