A Case Of The Mondays: Vent Your Work Spleen Here

[Nordly Beaumont]

First, that lady needs to watch the documentary "Hot Coffee" - Second, I'm the type that gets pissed when even a one hour meeting goes off topic. All I hear from my co-workers is how busy, how swamped, how terribly buried in work they are - baloney! If you were, you would get to the point of the meeting and maybe end a little early and do some of that supposed work you're buried under! I feel like people are getting more and more disrespectful of people's time. Get to the point and talk OT on the breaks. 

Three left! Just keep counting down! I don't think you're being too sensitive at all, I would feel the same way.

[bilgistic]

46 minutes ago, langway said:

I need somebody to tell me whether I’m being too sensitive or not. 

I started my new job back in July and I’m still doing some training for it. These are classroom type trainings that are held off site away from the branches. I’ve had some issues with the facilitator. She’s a nice person, but she can’t control the room. The amount of times we go off topic to talk about things that are not related to banking is constant. I’m traveling 2 and a half hours each way for this crap, and the constant banter about movies, tv shows, books, etc has been ridiculous. I’ve driven up there I wanna say 8 times so far, and I’ve got 3 more to go, but each and every time, something holds us up and it’s mostly the off topic discussions. Sometimes off topic things happen and sometimes it can make it fun, but when you’re waking up at 4:30 to leave the house by 5:30 when the rest of the class doesn’t have to leave their house til 7-8, it can kind of put you in a mood.

I can live with the OT garbage, but this woman repeatedly uses us as her soapbox audience. Perfect example was today. I forget what we were talking about, but it lead to the McDonalds coffee situation that happened several years ago. She said “how does someone not understand that coffee is hot? I have no respect for that woman for suing for emotional distress. Being burned gives you emotional distress? Get out of here. No respect.” And she said it with this tone like she was personally effected by the situation. Now, I couldn’t give a shit less about the situation itself, but the way she said “being burned gives you emotional distress?” Like that old woman had really severe burns on her thighs, I’d be surprised if she wasn’t emotionally distraught. For all we know, there could be burn victims in the class, and to basically hear from this woman that being burned isn’t traumatic just makes me shake my head  

Idk I’m probably being sensitive. It was just amazing to hear somebody who won’t shut up about professionalism in the workplace spew her nonsense. You know damn well she wouldn’t say that to a customer, just because we’re on the same “team” shouldn’t mean anything. She probably meant the lawsuit portion was bullshit, and she’s fully entitled to that opinion, but to say it’s not traumatizing just took it a step too far imo. 

Like I said, I might be overly sensitive. I’m exhausted and sick of all this driving, and I might just be acting dumb.  

Is there someone over the facilitator that you can talk to about her poor training skills? I had a similar issue at my old job with our ridiculous weekly meetings every Monday. My boss made me come in half an hour early for these meetings and then he and the rest of the boys would shoot the shit for 20 minutes about what they did over the weekend, negating the purpose of my coming in early. I sent them all an email asking that we cut down the chit-chat and get down to business in our meetings, but that went nowhere. There was no one above my boss I could go to, though.

Depending upon how outspoken you feel, you can raise your hand (or don't) when the discussion veers off-topic and say, "Can we get back to the lesson?" I don't know you as a poster, but I'm guessing by you asking if you're being "too sensitive", that you're a woman. (I've been told by men (and women) many, many times that I'm "too sensitive". Bah!) So, be "less sensitive" and ask (or tell) the class to get back on task. No one would bat an eyelash if a man did it.

[mbaywife123]

Good grief, do people not realize that I also have the day off on Federal holidays (yesterday, no mail or banking) I mean really folks I don't live at the office! If it is an emergency (fire,flood or blood involve) you should be calling 911 not me!!

[Hanahope]

Oh that woman better be glad I didn't hear her go off on the McDonalds Hot Coffee case.  There's so much misinformation about that case that gets spread around, its infuriating.

[langway]

I’m with y’all, I was trying really hard to not cause a scene, but one of the other “students” did it before I could. She definitely had the inferior attitude and you can’t really “challenge” her because she’s the lead. She has a very dominating personality. I did tell her to keep an open mind and watch the doc Hot Coffee though, which went over about as well as you can imagine. 

I know that I’ll get to “review” the training program, and I intend on unleashing all holy hell on the entire experience. The first handful of classes were very small (6 people) but we still fell behind because there were 2 people who didn’t understand even a little bit of what was going on. You’d think a 6 person class would mean things would go quicker, but nope. Then when I went to my class last week, we had 20+ people. And it has remained 20+ since. (Apparently people hired since September are in a “pilot” program where the training is much more extensive and serious than the training I am being provided. I just missed that cutoff, thank god.) They did an introduction (where everyone said their name, time with the company, location and their favorite hobby /eye roll) which took almost an hour and a half. That was an hour and a half lost right off the bat.

i think the whole thing is a freaking joke. I’m thankful to have experience in my field, but for the people coming in blind, they don’t know ANYTHING. They’d learn far more actually being in their locations than they will in the courses. To me, the courses should be providing an outline/idea. They cannot honestly believe these people are going to go back to their branches and jump right in and not miss a beat. The people in the class aren’t even close to understanding what in the hell is going on, and theyve been here for two straight weeks. Never mind that the large class is killing my drive time. Getting out ten minutes late delays me getting home about 30 minutes because traffic gets crappier by the minute. 

/rant over lol 

[BookWoman56]

5 hours ago, langway said:

They did an introduction (where everyone said their name, time with the company, location and their favorite hobby /eye roll) which took almost an hour and a half. That was an hour and a half lost right off the bat.

i think the whole thing is a freaking joke. I’m thankful to have experience in my field, but for the people coming in blind, they don’t know ANYTHING. They’d learn far more actually being in their locations than they will in the courses. To me, the courses should be providing an outline/idea. They cannot honestly believe these people are going to go back to their branches and jump right in and not miss a beat. The people in the class aren’t even close to understanding what in the hell is going on, and theyve been here for two straight weeks.  

It's been a while since I did any instructional design work, but FWIW, I did some instructional design in the financial services industry. The introduction nonsense is supposed to be an ice-breaker to get people to relax a bit, but there's no good reason it should take an hour and a half. Normally the routine in this kind of class would be to learn something about topic ABC, do a learning check to make sure everybody has the basics of topic ABC, and then the trainees are given the opportunity to apply that knowledge/skill before moving on to the next topic. Otherwise, they will forget what they learned. Also, if you've got people in the class who don't know what the hell is going on, then the facilitator needs to figure out what they don't understand and get them up to speed.  I don't know exactly what these classes are for, but they sound like they were designed by amateurs. From the way you've described the facilitator, she seems way too opinionated; you don't want a facilitator who shows zero personality, but neither do you want want one intent on advancing his/her personal agenda either. And bottom line, it's her job to allow occasional brief off-topic discussion but then get the class back on track so there's no significant loss of time. When you are given the opportunity to assess the course, be sure to provide feedback about the problems with the facilitator. Someone higher up the learning & development ladder needs to be aware of these performance issues.

[langway]

5 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

It's been a while since I did any instructional design work, but FWIW, I did some instructional design in the financial services industry. The introduction nonsense is supposed to be an ice-breaker to get people to relax a bit, but there's no good reason it should take an hour and a half. Normally the routine in this kind of class would be to learn something about topic ABC, do a learning check to make sure everybody has the basics of topic ABC, and then the trainees are given the opportunity to apply that knowledge/skill before moving on to the next topic. Otherwise, they will forget what they learned. Also, if you've got people in the class who don't know what the hell is going on, then the facilitator needs to figure out what they don't understand and get them up to speed.  I don't know exactly what these classes are for, but they sound like they were designed by amateurs. From the way you've described the facilitator, she seems way too opinionated; you don't want a facilitator who shows zero personality, but neither do you want want one intent on advancing his/her personal agenda either. And bottom line, it's her job to allow occasional brief off-topic discussion but then get the class back on track so there's no significant loss of time. When you are given the opportunity to assess the course, be sure to provide feedback about the problems with the facilitator. Someone higher up the learning & development ladder needs to be aware of these performance issues.

You’re the perfect person to critique it then. 

The training we’re doing is platform based. Basically holding a “needs” conversation (like at account opening or an account review), finding a need and capitalizing on it. It’s all about selling, the products, what the right product is for the client, don’t act like this, don’t do that, etc. when I first got into banking, it was kind of a shell shock which is why I’m trying to be patient, but I think the facilitator might be over complicating it just a tad and making it even more confusing. You can tell she is losing her patience and getting frustrated. 

Another thing that I hate is peer to peer critiquing. None of these people are going to be honest with each other and no one is going to get better when you’re conversation is completely awful but your peers are telling you it’s amazing. For example, roleplaying as a banker and another roleplaying as the customer. When I was going through training with my former company, I made a girl cry because I said she should be more inquisitive. If I’m handed a list of things to bring up as a customer and you miss every single one, I don’t know what to tell you. No one wants to hear any type of constructive criticism. It’s not easy, I know, but if they’ve been up here for 2 full weeks and can’t even piece together a framing/positioning statement, I don’t know what to tell them. That part is the easiest part of the entire conversation and they’re not even understanding that. 

I just don’t get it. 

[BookWoman56]

Yeah, the course should not be that complicated. Make sure the trainees are familiar with the products and the situations in which specific products would be suitable, and then work on the soft skills.  In this case, that should essentially consist of asking open-ended questions to elicit enough information from the customer to determine if there is some underlying/unmet need in addition to whatever transaction the customer requested, or in some cases, to determine that perhaps what the customer requested isn't necessarily the best choice and to advise them of better options so they can make an informed choice. That said, a large part of the reason I quit doing instructional design was I got tired of the entire focus on "relationship sales," which means more or less that no matter what the customer has requested, the service rep has to give them a sales pitch for another product as well. Almost the only exception to this was a short lesson designed specifically for service reps who take the first call that the customer has been in an accident in an auto that is insured through the financial services company. I had to design a mini-lesson to explain to them, that when someone has just had the traumatic experience of being in an accident, in which possibly there was serious damage to one or more autos and/or injury to someone or even loss of life, it's not a good idea to take the details of the accident, explain next steps, and then comment, "By the way, the system is telling me that you're pre-approved for a new credit card."

[hoosier80]

Well, this should be good.  The wannabe Queen Bee (who is buds with the boss) majorly fucked up.  Big time fucked up.  Client did not want to participate in event, removing old data.  Yep, data is gone.  QB was the lead on it.  I'd asked if she wanted to go over it, for one specific client.  Nope,, she and Dip had it covered.  Okie dokie then.  (A list is produced ahead of time by programming for the lead person to review and say yay or nay- QB said yay).  Fast forward a month later and yeah, it was wrong.  Not easy to restore data.

Waiting for that bus to try to roll over me, but I've not been involved in this for at least 4 years now.  Try it QB, try it.   It was another thing that was "pretty easy".  Last time QB said that she jacked up one of my processes, which took two days to correct.  I've not asked for her help since.  

[BookWoman56]

@hoosier80, perhaps my cynicism is showing, but I'm betting QB will try to find a way to make this your fault, not in the sense of you having made the fuck-up, but in the sense of you having failed to save her from her own stupidity. No doubt she will be telling the boss, "I discussed this with hoosier80, and hoosier80 did not mention at all that there were any potential problems in removing old data." So, if you have any emails or other paper trails of asking her to discuss it, especially any in which you cautioned her about the potential for problems, I'd hang on to those for a while. [Sarcasm]Not that I've ever been blamed for failing to rescue a total fucking idiot from his/her own stupidity when total fucking idiot was hellbent on doing the exact thing that would fuck things up the most. No, not ever.[/Sarcasm]. 

[DeLurker]

@hoosier80 - I'm shocked I tell you, just shocked. 

[Hanahope]

Well, I knew I would have problems with Type A boss when Type B boss that I worked under left our firm.  Type A boss is such that even when you get your hours in and keep up with your work, he has "an issue" if you're not in the office 10 hours a day.

On Friday, I had to drive out to a court hearing that wasn't going to get me back to my house until about 2:30 p.m. Virtually every time I have done this, I just work from home the rest of the day because its another hour commute to my office, and getting in at 3:30 pm gives me only 90 minutes of work time before I usually have to leave to pick up younger child from karate class on Fridays.

On this last Friday, I knew that when I got home I was probably going to have to take younger child to the Urgent care because she hurt her knee the day before.  On the way to the court hearing, Type A boss calls me, while I was driving.  I couldn't hear very well because (a) I was driving on a highway and (b) I was  having some urgent digestion problems and focusing on keeping my bowels together.  He asked me if I was coming back to the office after court and I said probably not because I may have to take younger child to urgent care for a knee injury.  I heard him say he left me a voice mail at work, then we talked a bit about Case X, then he started to say something about case Y, but I couldn't hear very well, and all I heard was "we'll talk later," but no specific day/time.  FYI - neither case had some urgent deadline and boss knew I was driving on the highway going to court.

I got home and picked up younger child from school, she did say the knee was hurting a lot and so I took her to urgent care  (no fracture, probably a strain/sprain).  While there, I emailed my secretary to transcribe the voice mail (thinking it was about Cases X and Y).  She did, and it was cut off in the middle of the question on Case X.  So I asked her to follow up with Type A boss because he said something something to me about Case Y.  Well, I should have known better (she doesn't always "get it") because she just came back and said "no, there was nothing more on the message, type A boss said he talked to me about it."  As it turns out, my secretary didn't ask him about Case Y, just if there was anything more on the message (which only dealt with Case X that we discussed).  So I didn't know that he wanted me to call back on Friday to discuss Case Y, which he claims that what he told me on the phone.  I didn't actually get home until after 5:00 (when the firm's phones are shut off) with urgent care and then going to buy a knee brace, but of course, I still could have called his cell.

So now on Monday, he's all pissed because I didn't call him back Friday.  And to punish me, he refuses to discuss Case Y with me until "the end of the day", which means around 6pm or so, and today happens to be the day that I'm supposed to drive older child and friend to cheerleading practice.  The other mother we carpool with can't do it today (we switch on mondays).  So now both our kids will probably miss practice because my boss is an asshole and I stupidly relied on my barely competent secretary yet again.  Unfortunately, we don't live anywhere near the other cheer families.

I'm going to try and see if he'll talk to me at 4:30, so I can leave by 5.  And I have to hope that younger daughter's knee heals without any further medical treatment (like physical therapy) because type A boss is being a real asshole about "people leaving work early for personal reasons.'  Well excuse me for not having a stay at home wife (or husband) to do everything.

I had hoped to continue working here, believing that my work and hours would be good enough for him, but he's all into the "face time", instead of realizing that people can do their work just fine remotely.  Even if I leave at 4:30, that doesn't mean I don't do work at home later that night.

[magicdog]

Just now, Hanahope said:

So now on Monday, he's all pissed because I didn't call him back Friday.  And to punish me, he refuses to discuss Case Y with me until "the end of the day", which means around 6pm or so, and today happens to be the day that I'm supposed to drive older child and friend to cheerleading practice.  The other mother we carpool with can't do it today (we switch on mondays).  So now both our kids will probably miss practice because my boss is an asshole and I stupidly relied on my barely competent secretary yet again.  Unfortunately, we don't live anywhere near the other cheer families.

I'm going to try and see if he'll talk to me at 4:30, so I can leave by 5.  And I have to hope that younger daughter's knee heals without any further medical treatment (like physical therapy) because type A boss is being a real asshole about "people leaving work early for personal reasons.'  Well excuse me for not having a stay at home wife (or husband) to do everything.

I had hoped to continue working here, believing that my work and hours would be good enough for him, but he's all into the "face time", instead of realizing that people can do their work just fine remotely.  Even if I leave at 4:30, that doesn't mean I don't do work at home later that night.

Send the poop!!! To both him and the secretary!!

[bilgistic]

14 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

Well, I knew I would have problems with Type A boss when Type B boss that I worked under left our firm.  Type A boss is such that even when you get your hours in and keep up with your work, he has "an issue" if you're not in the office 10 hours a day.

On Friday, I had to drive out to a court hearing that wasn't going to get me back to my house until about 2:30 p.m. Virtually every time I have done this, I just work from home the rest of the day because its another hour commute to my office, and getting in at 3:30 pm gives me only 90 minutes of work time before I usually have to leave to pick up younger child from karate class on Fridays.

On this last Friday, I knew that when I got home I was probably going to have to take younger child to the Urgent care because she hurt her knee the day before.  On the way to the court hearing, Type A boss calls me, while I was driving.  I couldn't hear very well because (a) I was driving on a highway and (b) I was  having some urgent digestion problems and focusing on keeping my bowels together.  He asked me if I was coming back to the office after court and I said probably not because I may have to take younger child to urgent care for a knee injury.  I heard him say he left me a voice mail at work, then we talked a bit about Case X, then he started to say something about case Y, but I couldn't hear very well, and all I heard was "we'll talk later," but no specific day/time.  FYI - neither case had some urgent deadline and boss knew I was driving on the highway going to court.

I got home and picked up younger child from school, she did say the knee was hurting a lot and so I took her to urgent care  (no fracture, probably a strain/sprain).  While there, I emailed my secretary to transcribe the voice mail (thinking it was about Cases X and Y).  She did, and it was cut off in the middle of the question on Case X.  So I asked her to follow up with Type A boss because he said something something to me about Case Y.  Well, I should have known better (she doesn't always "get it") because she just came back and said "no, there was nothing more on the message, type A boss said he talked to me about it."  As it turns out, my secretary didn't ask him about Case Y, just if there was anything more on the message (which only dealt with Case X that we discussed).  So I didn't know that he wanted me to call back on Friday to discuss Case Y, which he claims that what he told me on the phone.  I didn't actually get home until after 5:00 (when the firm's phones are shut off) with urgent care and then going to buy a knee brace, but of course, I still could have called his cell.

So now on Monday, he's all pissed because I didn't call him back Friday.  And to punish me, he refuses to discuss Case Y with me until "the end of the day", which means around 6pm or so, and today happens to be the day that I'm supposed to drive older child and friend to cheerleading practice.  The other mother we carpool with can't do it today (we switch on mondays).  So now both our kids will probably miss practice because my boss is an asshole and I stupidly relied on my barely competent secretary yet again.  Unfortunately, we don't live anywhere near the other cheer families.

I'm going to try and see if he'll talk to me at 4:30, so I can leave by 5.  And I have to hope that younger daughter's knee heals without any further medical treatment (like physical therapy) because type A boss is being a real asshole about "people leaving work early for personal reasons.'  Well excuse me for not having a stay at home wife (or husband) to do everything.

I had hoped to continue working here, believing that my work and hours would be good enough for him, but he's all into the "face time", instead of realizing that people can do their work just fine remotely.  Even if I leave at 4:30, that doesn't mean I don't do work at home later that night.

If Case Y was so urgent, why couldn't he call you again?? Or text? Why be a passive-aggressive little snot about it?

[Hanahope]

17 minutes ago, magicdog said:

Send the poop!!! To both him and the secretary!!

LOL

 

5 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

If Case Y was so urgent, why couldn't he call you again?? Or text? Why be a passive-aggressive little snot about it?

and I couldn't even get him all of the information he needed for Case Y because part of the info I needed was in the hands of our office manager, who had gone home by 5:00 p.m., before I had the ability to call him back.  I couldn't get the one part until this morning, which I did first thing.

[Bastet]

30 minutes ago, Hanahope said:

I had hoped to continue working here, believing that my work and hours would be good enough for him, but he's all into the "face time", instead of realizing that people can do their work just fine remotely. 

Ugh.  Those "face time" folks stand right next to micromanagers (and are often one and the same) at the head of the People I Cannot Work For line.  Sorry you're having to deal with Type A Boss now, when you'd had a pretty good thing going before.

Edited October 15, 2018 by Bastet

[MargeGunderson]

41 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

Why be a passive-aggressive little snot about it?

This is one of the greatest mysteries of life to me. 

I'm back from a week's "vacation" (it was family, so it doesn't really count as vacation) and am digging out from under email. Luckily nothing crazy happened, but it's going to take me a while to catch up. I'm annoyed at the people who are now asking me if I saw their email yet. Get in line people, get in line. 

[emma675]

Hoosier90, I second what BookWoman56 said about keeping any documentation on that issue to cya if necessary. 

Edited October 15, 2018 by emma675d

[BookWoman56]

Is it asking too much for people to read an entire email before responding in an accusatory tone, based on only a fraction of what was in the message? I am seriously annoyed as fuck right now with my manager. A couple of months ago, she insisted on having an onsite meeting to which I had to travel, and her rationale for this onsite was so that the members of our team could "sit in the same room while working on everyday items." No training, no faux team-building exercises, just having us all in the same room, albeit on different rows of cubes. I don't fly for a variety of reasons, so I opted to rent a car to drive there. I checked our corporate travel site and noticed that as I suspected, it was much cheaper to rent a car for the week than to rent one car for a 2-day one-way trip and then rent another car for the return 2-day one-way trip, so I rented it for a week. I went to the onsite meeting and returned. Last month I submitted my expense report so that my corporate card could have the car rental, hotel, and meal expenses credited to the account. My manager approved my expense report without looking at it, but then her manager (or admin assistant, more likely) returned it asking for more information about why I needed the rental car for the duration of the hotel stay. So I wrote up a couple of paragraphs explaining that I drove because I do not fly, and included screenshots of the estimated cost for a weekly rental versus the estimated cost for 2 days not returning the car to the same site. I also included screenshots of the lowest airfare that is available had I flown from my home to the onsite location. I resubmitted the expense report, having appended this additional documentation, a couple of weeks ago, but today I got hate mail from the corporate card folks stating that if my expense report is not approved by the end of this month, my card will be deactivated and if not approved by the middle of next month, my card account will be closed.

So I forwarded the email to my manager to request her to re-approve the expense report and explained what additional documentation I had attached, and that it showed that the cost of renting the car for a week so I could drive there and back was cheaper than renting a car for 2 days for two one-way trips, and the weekly car rental, even with the cost of  parking charges at the hotel, was still less than the cost of the daily rate, and the weekly car rental (including both fuel and parking charges at the hotel) was significantly less than what airfare would have been. And I do not know what the hell kind of mental lapse she had, because she replied that the ~$500 total for car rental, fuel, and parking was excessive, and wouldn't fly with mgmt, and how far was the hotel from the onsite location, had I used the car for personal trips while I was there, etc, and that I needed to explain why I needed the car while I was at the onsite. About a minute later she emailed again to say that her manager might want to have a talk with me about the expenses. I responded that I didn't need the car while I was at the onsite; I needed the car for the trip to the onsite and the trip back from the onsite, and the weekly rate was the cheapest option. And so she replied, "Oh, I forgot you drove rather than flew." Evidently she had assumed that I had flown to the city, rented a car for the days I was there, then returned the car and flown back home. All this despite the fact that my email to her, and the documentation I had attached to the expense report, said clearly that I rented the car to drive there and back, and despite the fact that the expense report has no airfare charge on it.

It took every ounce of self-control I have not to tell her to FOAD; don't skim an email, leap to the wrong conclusions, and threaten me with upper management wanting to have a "discussion" with me about excessive expenses, when the expenses that were incurred were the least expensive option. If she'd done her actual job and read my email, in addition to the appended documentation, all this could have been avoided. Instead, I spent the rest of the day popping extra blood pressure meds because I was so pissed off. 

Edited October 18, 2018 by BookWoman56

[bilgistic]

I can't tell you the number of times I've replied simply, "Read my original email," to someone's careless response full of questions that were answered in my original email. It doesn't make my blood any cooler, but it's never been nor never will be my job to make people less obtuse.

If I'm feeling especially salty, which is basically always, I'll reply with answers from my original email color-coded to match their questions.

[ginger90]

A “consumer” (I can’t stand that term)  I have for home care had a complaint about a staff member. It would have been against policy not to pass on the complaint to the office. Regardless,, I would have made them aware.

The reply: “She’s only there Tuesday and Thursday nights.”. WTF does that have to do with it? How many days would it have to be to qualify? 

They want to be idiots? I left a message for her caseworker. I want to know what the reply to him will be. 

[Mountainair]

I've got to get some work/family related drama off my chest so here goes: 

My husband and his mom are in business together. 50/50 ownership of business. He does the manual labor as well as his dad and his mom keeps the books. I do all the other office work including payroll. My MIL has promised to teach me how to keep the books if I go to the office at a set time. I go and she never shows up. She's promised to teach me how to keep books if I take classes- I took classes and she still won't show me. She flat out refuses to discuss business with me. Keep in mind- I have 3 young children, carpools, sports, household to maintain, etc. I work mostly from home handling my husbands customers. Fast forward to last week where my MIL informed my husband that she was going to be hiring his sister to take my place because it's "obvious" I don't care about the company! His sister recently quit her job to be a stay at home mom and they are having trouble making ends meet (not my husband's problem), she is also an alcoholic. My husband tried to have a calm sit down talk with his mom about how much bullshit this is and she ended up screeching and throwing office supplies in his face and left. She has not spoken to him since and sent me a text message that I need not bother going in to the office today. 

So, now we are faced with several issues. How the hell do we split up the business? Logistically? She refuses to have a conversation with us. I'm willing to cash out my IRA so we can split up and go this alone. Secondly, I'm helping my pain in the ass sister in law plan a surprise b day party for my ass hole of a mother in law. Sunday we are all getting together for my nieces birthday and then next week I'm supposed to go out with my mother in law to get stuff for my sons birthday coming up. 

I don't want to talk to this woman, let alone shop or celebrate a damn thing with her and then I have to not let my kids know all this drama is going down. 

We've been in business for almost 10 years with no real issues but now the proverbial shit has hit the fan.

[Mindthinkr]

@Mountainair It seems as though she hasn’t been honest with you from the get go. You have jumped through every hoop she’s placed in front of you as well as juggled a home life for your family. You should have been taught the books by now. Is she keeping crooked books or two sets? Has she been giving money to the alcoholic in her family and trying to hide this from you and your husband? I don’t think there is anything wrong with you. I think she’s hiding something or has something wrong she’s protecting. 

I do not envy you having to throw/attend this party for her but agree that you should keep things nice for your children. The last thing that you want to do is to give her ammunition on which to fire at you. I wish you the best. Hopefully someone else on this will have a more concrete solution for you. 

[magicdog]

I think you should get both a lawyer and a forensic accountant.  I don't know if there was any agreement about the business should there be a death or divorce in the family, but if there wasn't one already, it's time to make one ASAP.  The accountant will find where the money is at and nail MIL to the wall.  It does sound like she might be cooking the books for her daughter the drunk.

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, Mountainair said:

So, now we are faced with several issues. How the hell do we split up the business? Logistically? She refuses to have a conversation with us. I'm willing to cash out my IRA so we can split up and go this alone. Secondly, I'm helping my pain in the ass sister in law plan a surprise b day party for my ass hole of a mother in law. Sunday we are all getting together for my nieces birthday and then next week I'm supposed to go out with my mother in law to get stuff for my sons birthday coming up. 

I don't want to talk to this woman, let alone shop or celebrate a damn thing with her and then I have to not let my kids know all this drama is going down. 

I second the advice of getting a lawyer, and agree it's total BS that your MIL has dangled an offer of teaching you how to keep the books and then never followed through, followed by her summarily firing you and installing her daughter in your previous position. It would not surprise me at all if she's been cooking the books to cover up financial assistance to the alcoholic daughter. 

As far as having to socialize with her, maybe this is petty, but I'd bow out of most of the planning for her surprise birthday party. Unless this is some huge event, your SIL should be able to plan it all by herself, and furthermore, if she's incapable of doing so, then how on earth is she going to hold down a job in which she has to deal with payroll and so forth? You don't have to be confrontational about not helping out; a simple "Sorry, but some things have come up and I'm no longer able to help" should suffice. I would offer to help out with the costs of the party, since this is your husband's mother, but I don't think you have any moral obligation to help plan a party for a woman who has treated you like crap and is unprofessional enough to refuse to discuss the business with your husband, who is a 50/50 partner in the business. I agree you don't want to drag the kids into the middle of a family squabble, but I doubt the kids will think anything about whether or not you help plan the birthday party. (Actually, the kids would be more likely to pick up underlying resentment if you do the planning even though you don't want to.) Also, unless things change dramatically in the next few days, there's no good reason for you to have to go out with your MIL to shop for a birthday present for your son. Just give her a list of a few things that would be appropriate for your son, and let her do her own damn shopping by herself or possibly she could just get a gift card that allows him to select something himself. It should not be your responsibility to get her to fulfill her role as a grandmother. 

If you and your husband do decide to split up the business and go it alone, there will undoubtedly be bad feelings and possibly financial losses for your MIL unless she is also able to go it alone or find another business partner. But that is nobody's fault except your MIL's. I would expect there to be maybe 6 months to a year where communications between your family and the MIL are either antagonistic or quite awkward, and then eventually the family relationship will return to normal, with the exception of no longer being in business with your MIL. It's kind of like an old joke in the legal profession that after someone dies and there's disagreement about who gets what (aside from things that were expressly stipulated in the will, if there was one), it's about three years before remaining family members are speaking to each other again. 

[Mountainair]

My Father in law actually just texted my husband that the four of us need to get together tonight night and talk this out-Surprise! Surprise! Normally my parents watch the kids but they're out of town so no can do. I appreciate that they want to include me.

My MIL is a lot of things but she is not a dishonest book keeper. I have access to all the books and spent 12 years in banking before quitting to stay home with the kids. I don't understand all the tax stuff as far as reporting it to the IRS is concerned. The company pays it's taxes. Everything's legit. Just the logistics of having to split up a company are headache inducing and the impending family drama that will ensue is heartbreaking. But maybe with the requested meeting things can turn around. I'm doubtful.

I'd still be receiving a paycheck but I'm not ok with that. This is my husbands company. If you are willing to train my sister in law to run it you should be more than willing to train me after 10 years. Furthermore, we take a modest salary from the company and finances are tight. If we have extra money to throw around at a useless employee than we need to be bringing home more in our paychecks. 

The surprise party is a big deal. People are flying in from other states for this thing so I can't back out. My husband's (bless his heart) life long mantra is to be the bigger person but I remind him that it has gotten him no where when it comes to dealing with his family and I'm over that shit. Spiteful Mountainair is out now. I'll still go through with my obligations for the surprise party and at tomorrow's get together for my niece I won't be a bitch but I refuse to speak to her and I refuse to go out shopping with her until this is resolved.

[DeLurker]

I was going to ask what is your FIL's ownership interest?  Is it joint with your MIL or is it solely her's?  Because he's working the labor too.

Your husband needs to stick to his mantra, be the bigger person and get himself involved with these familial obligations for party planning and whatnot in light of the circumstances.  With everything that has been thrown at you and, literally, at him, he needs to be the one to deal with whatever the fall out is from this.  Whether you two do it together or he goes it alone, that is up to you.  Even if you just meet, set up a specific list of things that need to be done and divvy up the list so you don't have to do a whole lot of interface right now.

I'm sorry - no one needs such drama that spills over into every aspect of your lives.

[Mountainair]

I appreciate you all allowing me to vent here. 

We had our meeting last night and it went as expected. At one point my MIL was screeching at us so loudly and abrasively that I grabbed my stuff, said we were done and walked out. She has zero respect for my husband or me for that matter. My FIL was there and waffled between being understanding of the points my husband was trying to make and yelling at us as well. At the end of the day- nothing has changed. My Sister in Law is still coming on board. I'm still pissed about it. 

So, we have two different lines of work within our company. When my husband and his mother created this company it was Company A now with my FIL as an employee we are now Company A B- if that makes sense. My husband and FIL both do very different types of work- related but different. The work my husband does requires advertising to be a success and my MIL has never been willing to put money into advertising. That being said, if we left the company today my husband would be able to make just enough to keep us in our current lifestyle (which is not lavish at all)- hopefully, maybe. After last night my MIL is willing to spend money on advertising to appease my husband. So, I figure if we can stick it out for one more year- milk the current company for advertising to boost our sales we will be in a much better position to get the hell out of there. We are going to    pull as much of the daily operations as we can from the main office in town to our house where my husbands end of the business is concerned. I'm going to start keeping my own record of what we are spending and making so I can be in a better position to end things. AND!!!! I discovered that my MIL is shady when it comes to some of this book keeping stuff. My sister in law is not going to get her hands on anything related to our end of the business. Period. 

Anyway, we left last night at least speaking in a normal tone but to say the relationship is fixed would be huge lie. I went out today and bought the stuff for my son's birthday. She can pay me back or not. Or fucking figure out how to buy him something without me holding her hand to do it- did I mention that my in-laws are pretty shitty grandparents when it comes  to spending time with my kids. They'll spend money on them but not time. We live 5 miles away and they see the kids once a month on average. 

My parents and my In laws were supposed to celebrate my son with cake and ice cream but now my parents (my mom) doesn't want to be in the same room as my in-laws so I'm trying to figure out how to fit something in. It's still a mess. I've known my in-laws since I was 14 years old. 20 years!! 

I have found a good resource online I hope to start utilizing soon called SCORE which has business classes and tutors all free. 

[emma675]

Mountainair, that sucks. I was wondering if your mil was doing something shady with the books since she was so hellbent on not sharing them with you.

[Mindthinkr]

3 hours ago, Mountainair said:

AND!!!! I discovered that my MIL is shady when it comes to some of this book keeping stuff. My sister in law is not going to get her hands on anything related to our end of the business. Period. 

I warned you about that. You sound as though you have a plan in place and that’s great. Learn what you can (free=yippee) and apply it to your husbands end of the business. I wish you success. 

[ginger90]

I saw  this on Facebook.

[magicdog]

6 hours ago, Mountainair said:

AND!!!! I discovered that my MIL is shady when it comes to some of this book keeping stuff. My sister in law is not going to get her hands on anything related to our end of the business. Period. 

I knew it!!  Forensic accountant!  Now!  Who knows how much of your and your husband's earnings may have been pilfered!  

Then send the MIL some poop!

On a serious note, I'm sorry things are such a mess for you - especially because it's on a personal front as well as a business one.  Good luck!

[Mindthinkr]

12 hours ago, ginger90 said:

I saw  this on Facebook.

You absolutely just made my morning. I’m laughing with delight. Happy Hump Day everyone!

[AgentRXS]

Its that time of year again. Suddenly all the people with children who haven't bothered to work overtime all year are now clamoring for it because their darling children must have the latest gadget for Christmas.  Ol' Reliable (aka me) gets the shaft because I'm childless. Its incredibly frustrating to explicitly state that I am willing to work as much overtime as possible and still not getting as much time as the senior people above me, but then when Nov comes around, my overtime gets cut even more because suddenly everyone wants a piece of the pie. The most senior person in my section is getting 14 days of overtime (possibly 16 if he chooses to work Thanksgiving and Black Friday). 16 out of 30 days is insane, but he has 3 children and they need gadgets. Ugh.

Guess which day I will be expected to work this year? You got it, Christmas. One year, I ended up working the AM and PM shift because no one wanted to do it. The last two years I've declined simply because it fell on my regular days off. I got called selfish by other people who had Christmas plans they had to cancel. Just because I'm single,childless, and the holiday means nothing to me doesn't mean I am obligated to work so that other people can have a social life. I deserve my downtime,even if it is just vegging in front of the couch with a book.

 I can't stand this time of year. Please let these 2 months fly by.

Edited October 29, 2018 by AgentRXS

[MargeGunderson]

People to whom I sent a very detailed email, completed with links to relevant documentation, who then failed to follow any of the instructions therein and for whom now I will have to do at least an hour's worth of tedious work to fix: you suck, you suck big time.

But the last laugh shall be mine - you will still have to do what you failed to do before, and if you don't, I will carry out exactly what I promised in my email (which is not petty revenge, as it is written in a SOP that I am bound to follow. Although I am both petty and revengeful, I can just point to policy in this case. It will still be sweet).

[bilgistic]

For a few months now, I have been looking for a full-time job. I have interacted with--up to and including met with--several recruiters, and they all pretty much suck. They'll send my resume to a client and I'll never hear back from them again or I'll have an interview with their client and not get the job...and never hear back from them again.

This one recruiter takes the cake. I talked to her once and she sent my resume to a client. I emailed her a couple days later to ask the status. Crickets. A week later, I emailed her again and she said she'd call me at x time. She didn't call. I called her...no answer. Left a message. She emailed me way later and said she had a meeting or some such. She can't email me beforehand to let me know? We set up a time the next day. She called 1.5 hours later, when I wasn't available. Her message said she was calling "around 3 like we'd agreed upon." What?? I wrote her off at that point.

She texted me this afternoon. My sister (an HR specialist) says I'm being "weird and old-fashioned" but I don't think it's OK for a recruiter or interviewer, etc. to text a candidate. Call at the agreed-upon time or email. I have email on my phone, so I can respond to email nearly as quickly as a text, and more eloquently--and have a better record of the interaction.

(As an aside, I use my Google Voice number on job applications/my resume, so if I need to block anyone, I can do it easily in GV. My real number is not posted online for all the scammers in the world to get ahold of. Same with my "job-search email address".)

And finally, while I'm working part-time, I do not have my phone on me at work per store policy unlike 98% of the people who work there. I can't stop to text whoever--and shouldn't be expected to--when I'm boxing up croissants. There's a built-in urgency (yet forgettability) with texts that doesn't exist with emails.

And that is my diatribe for the day.

[Squirt]

6 hours ago, bilgistic said:

For a few months now, I have been looking for a full-time job. I have interacted with--up to and including met with--several recruiters, and they all pretty much suck. They'll send my resume to a client and I'll never hear back from them again or I'll have an interview with their client and not get the job...and never hear back from them again.

This one recruiter takes the cake. I talked to her once and she sent my resume to a client. I emailed her a couple days later to ask the status. Crickets. A week later, I emailed her again and she said she'd call me at x time. She didn't call. I called her...no answer. Left a message. She emailed me way later and said she had a meeting or some such. She can't email me beforehand to let me know? We set up a time the next day. She called 1.5 hours later, when I wasn't available. Her message said she was calling "around 3 like we'd agreed upon." What?? I wrote her off at that point.

She texted me this afternoon. My sister (an HR specialist) says I'm being "weird and old-fashioned" but I don't think it's OK for a recruiter or interviewer, etc. to text a candidate. Call at the agreed-upon time or email. I have email on my phone, so I can respond to email nearly as quickly as a text, and more eloquently--and have a better record of the interaction.

(As an aside, I use my Google Voice number on job applications/my resume, so if I need to block anyone, I can do it easily in GV. My real number is not posted online for all the scammers in the world to get ahold of. Same with my "job-search email address".)

And finally, while I'm working part-time, I do not have my phone on me at work per store policy unlike 98% of the people who work there. I can't stop to text whoever--and shouldn't be expected to--when I'm boxing up croissants. There's a built-in urgency (yet forgettability) with texts that doesn't exist with emails.

And that is my diatribe for the day.

That is one horrible recruiter. it sounds as if you could do better on your own. Do you really need to use a recruiter or is one needed for the type of position you are going after? You could try and change recruiting companies to see if that makes any difference or just go at it yourself. 

 

As for me I suppose I should be happy I get a paycheck every 2 weeks and I am, but as a Hair Stylist we do much more then just cutting, washing, styling, and coloring hair. With also having to be on my feet practically all the working day I also have to withstand the bitching from the clients that I am styling the hair. Grant it some are rather humorous, but some get rather personal with their stories and they also get rather worked up when telling them. It makes for a very eventful workday each day. 

[DeLurker]

15 hours ago, bilgistic said:

She texted me this afternoon. My sister (an HR specialist) says I'm being "weird and old-fashioned" but I don't think it's OK for a recruiter or interviewer, etc. to text a candidate. Call at the agreed-upon time or email. I have email on my phone, so I can respond to email nearly as quickly as a text, and more eloquently--and have a better record of the interaction.

I think if she had established a good rapport with you and some of the formalities between you were relaxed, it would probably be more reasonable.  At this stage though, I'm going to fall into the weird and old-fashioned category with you.

I think it is odd that a body broker is so lackadaisical about following standard business protocol like returning calls/emails timely or keeping scheduled calls.  In general, if she were trying to place a person who exhibited such behavior with interaction with her, her rep would be negatively effected if she placed that person and they conducted themselves the same way with the new employer.

[bilgistic]

13 hours ago, Squirt said:

That is one horrible recruiter. it sounds as if you could do better on your own. Do you really need to use a recruiter or is one needed for the type of position you are going after? You could try and change recruiting companies to see if that makes any difference or just go at it yourself. 

I have not sought out a single recruiter; they contact me because I have my resume posted on the various job boards. I am applying for jobs on my own.

[Squirt]

23 minutes ago, bilgistic said:

I have not sought out a single recruiter; they contact me because I have my resume posted on the various job boards. I am applying for jobs on my own.

I would dismiss that recruiter as someone who doesn't do their job very well and move on. Hope you get better opportunities in the future.

[Mountainair]

This probably belongs in the family thread but since I've been posting here about work....

We had the surprise birthday for my mother in law this past weekend. I've seen all my in laws several times since the proverbial shit hit the fan with no issues. Everyone putting on their happy faces and getting through the event. The party was great, I was happy, engaged, etc.. All of a sudden towards the end of the party my SIL comes at my husband (her brother) screaming, "WHY DON"T YOU LIKE ME". For one, this is not at all true. Secondly, not the time or place to discuss this. Mind you she was supposed to be the Designated Driver for her family and she is drunk out of her mind. I wasn't aware she had come at my husband like that but all of a sudden he told me it was time to go. I grabbed our three kids, took one look at my SIL and told her I was taking her three kids too. Her husband had no clue what was going on, why she was upset, she refused to speak to him. I told him I would take the kids until they could figure out what was going on. She was too drunk and out of control for her kids to see her like that. She ended up staying at her parents house that night and my BIL came over to our house. All the kids were asleep so we all just had a big sleepover but it was good because it gave us a chance to talk to him. It's not a big surprise but my MIL is running around straight up talking shit about us to them. Saying that we hate them and that's why she can't work at the company. And so on and so forth. What kind of mother seriously pits her children against each other like that? The BIL was astonished to hear the truth! 

The in laws got their way. SIL will be working at the company. Why stoop to this level?

[Mindthinkr]

@Mountainair I commend you for keeping the kids overnight so they didn’t have to see their mother in such a state. Shame on your MIL trying to fuel the fires of fighting.  

[bilgistic]

At 9:30 on Friday, I went on yet another interview, which was set up by a recruiter that sent me to one other interview a month ago. This was for a contract (maternity leave coverage) marketing coordinator position at a...commercial real estate development firm.

I knew of the company; the family name behind it is a big player in multifamily/mixed-use development. I looked at their website the night before I had the interview, and the staff was entirely white people*  and every single non-support staff member, i.e., every executive, was a white man.

The place was cold (atmosphere, not temperature). The setting reminded me of my first interview at my previous employer. I met with one guy, an EVP, in his office. He talked about the company and himself and what he did for probably 75% of our discussion.

During one of the few times I was talking when I was showing him my portfolio and quickly describing each project, he got a ding on his computer. He turned away from me while I was literally in the middle of a sentence and checked his email. I actually sat there frozen for a solid minute-plus, waiting for him to direct his attention back to me. I had another flashback to a time when I was having a come-to-Jesus with my former broker boss and he was checking email (or Facebook, who even knows?) on his phone while I was discussing my issues with him. The disrespectfulness of that gesture takes my breath away, and that's really all I needed to know.

EVP guy finally turned back to me and said that the email was from so-and-so who wants changes to whatever presentation, and he wants it today. So-and-so had known about this for months but doesn't think about this until the last minute and that's the kind of thing I'd be dealing with. So it wasn't an email EVP guy was waiting on. He was rude just because.

I asked him more questions about the culture while knowing that it was far too conservative for me. The personality types I would be working for were last-minute non-planners that I'm very familiar with in CRE (and yes, I know they exist in all industries). He kept saying, "I know you can do the work." Well, so do I and so does the recruiter. That's why I'm here. He kept saying I'd be there 8:30 to 6:00 and so-and-so comes in on Friday afternoons and decides to get his thoughts together and calls a meeting, so we're here until 6:30. So right out of the gate, you're telling me this is a 43+ hour/week high-stress job? For $20 an hour?

I had therapy pre-scheduled after the interview and spent (wasted) the whole session kvetching about the interview/job. How badly I didn't want to work in CRE again--I'd promised myself never again after 11 years of it. How things about this place gave me flashbacks. But how badly I need money and full-time work and a decent wage. Could I live with myself and this job for the contract term, which was supposed to be six months? And on and on.

I got an email from the recruiter just after 4:00. The EVP had passed on me. I felt instant relief wash over me. The feedback was that there was a cultural mismatch, which was what I told the recruiter as well, though I'd decided I'd take it if offered because it was just a contract position and I need money.

I told the recruiter again what I had told him initially: Do not send my resume to any more real estate jobs. I'm done with that. Really, really done.

*Yes, I'm white, but I am not interested in working for an industry or organization that does not employ, pay and promote with some semblance of equality and equity.

Edited November 11, 2018 by bilgistic

[Bastet]

@bilgistic, I wish you worked in my industry and my location, because I'd love to have someone with your work ethic, innate intelligence, depth of experience and commitment to learning new things, and general nature on my team.

While I know you need income, I am glad this didn't work out, because of the danger of you being sucked back into the CRE industry even temporarily and the paychecks not being worth the time it took you to extricate yourself again.  I continue to wish you good luck.  Because if you can find someone who appreciates - meaning respects and appropriately values - all you have to offer, you can be set for life in the environment you deserve.  It's just such a damn shame that is so hard to come by.

[hoosier80]

I am beyond pissed today.  We've been working on a project for boss, with Dip coordinating.  He's been out on vacation for over a week, never mentioned squat about it.  Now, it's to be all wrapped up, and the actual project document updated with milestones.  Only one to update the document was Dip.  Dip had a meeting or meetings to go over shit, never mentioned it once.  Of course, when the two (Dip and Queen Bee) said they were done, I went out to the overall list, and no big chunks were missing.  I completed the missing chunks.  I have copious notes and saved emails of everything I touched.  Now boss is on a rant, we need this all updated.  Dip is out the rest of the week - conveniently.   So QB says oh I know you're remote tomorrow, but I can't get all of this together, so can you come into the office?  I almost exploded.  I responded with a one word - ok.  I am out all of next week, under stress for that week - week with mom (90+, high maintenance, and she's all upset about shit, dumping on me).  Boss then says oh is there coverage, and you can't attend our meeting on Monday.  No, it's been scheduled for MONTHS, and D and QB have scheduled out who is 'late' each day.  He backed down a bit.   

I also have been doing some major jobs, while the other two do minimal work.  Both were gone yesterday by 2:20 p.m.  QB takes over hour lunches and multiple long breaks, but it's ok since she's friends with the boss.  Boss is remote all the time now, so he doesn't see or care what goes on in the office.  He only cares when it's his ass on the line.   I barely got into the office and Dip was all like - I can't get this abcd to work.  1.  it's not abcd - it's xyz.  Explained multiple times.  It's so easy, I set up the query and you click on it.  Query is gone.  Poof.  Dip must've deleted it.  I'm like use an old one.  It' won't work (imagine a whiny 60 year old).  Yeah, because she now has a temporary laptop, having blown up the old one (on websites shouldn't have been on - downloading crap - friend told me Dip is always surfing the net - while QB is watching movies or tv shows on her phone).

Kills me that they can get off for any little thing - it could be that their pet gerbil isn't eating right, so they have to monitor it 24/7 - and it's ok.  I take off legit vacation time, and it is a big fucking deal.

I am literally shaking, upset with family shit and now this crap.  I was trying to see how I could be off for a long time - 1.  they'd be screwed, 2.  I'm about ready to have a breakdown.  FMLA?  

[magicdog]

Having had to fill out paperwork for FAMLA because the idiots I work for didn’t think a doctor’s note was good enough for a three day absence, I don’t recommend it unless it’s truly needed.  I had to deal with the forms and idiots on the phone.  

Maybe you could send the poop??

[BookWoman56]

@hoosier80, I agree you need to find a way to be off work for a long time. That creates a situation where your two idiot colleagues will be responsible for various things that they will undoubtedly fuck up, and your manager may have to face the reality that they suck and you have been putting out their self-created fires on an ongoing basis. Not sure how you can arrange the time off, but years ago I ended up in the ER because of work-related stress (3+ months of working from 6am until 1 or 2am), which led to a physical and mental collapse. Spent a week in a medical facility and then a few weeks at home, all on company-paid short term disability. It was wonderful. Nobody from work was allowed to contact me about work stuff, so I was able to decompress and my manager had to find somebody to do what I had been doing, and realized it would take 2-3 people to handle everything I had been assigned.

Given the work situation plus the situation with your mother, you desperately need some down time to relax. If you have short term disability benefits available, I would talk to a doctor about your situation and emotional/mental state to see if you can get approved for some time away from work (and family) that are sucking the life force right out of you. 

[hoosier80]

Ok, there was absolutely NO need for me to go into the office today.  None.  It was a big fuck you from QB.  Oh, I don't know where to find this - I answered.  I could've done so via phone or IM. Then boss bails on meeting that was so urgent.  Yeah he logged out before 2 p.m.  QB left at 2.  

She came in early due to Dip being out yet again.  I came in and there's a request from 7 a.m. sitting there.  I'm sure QB probably didn't know what to do, except I'd shown her and Dip, plus she checked the same update about a week ago.  QB actually told someone else she needs  a new job.  Yes, get someone in the job who wants to learn at least. 

QB was being sickeningly sweet, and I was just playing along, acting all cool.  I was LIVID, but I kept thinking, I SEE YOU.  She's playing games, but whatever.  If it keeps up, yeah I'll go to ER and or doctor.  One time years ago, I was very stressed out, and doc wanted to write me off work for a while.  I had a nasty boss, so I was hesitant.  Now, nah.  I'd gladly take off a few weeks, with a do not disturb mandate.

[Blergh]

I LOATHE FAMLA. Not the idea but how it's executed.  Long-short is that I filled out forms for both my parents several times who each had conditions that could have required me to take extensive time off but each time it got rejected by TPTB at work. Once because the docs I faxed my forms to didn't fax it BACK to TPTB in time. Another time because I didn't put it exactly how long I believed I'd be taking out in the future (like HOW can one pinpoint when and how long  another person is going to have a medical setback). Oh, and months after my last attempt to fill out the form for my father and a month after his death, they rejected it.  Luckily I have a HUGE amount of banked sick days I could use in case my mother has a setback that would require my spending major time helping her- AND (unlike FAMLA) I'd actually get PAID. The ONLY benefit  of FAMLA is that they have to hold one's position for up to four months but the employee doesn't get any income from the employers to live off of in the meantime ( as if medical bills and regular bills can somehow take care of themselves without new monies coming in). 

Edited November 17, 2018 by Blergh
income addition

[BookWoman56]

FMLA was never really intended to address pay during a period when an employee is out for personal health reasons or family health stuff. It was intended primarily to protect employees from being fired because they had to take a major chunk of time off for those reasons, whether they had sick pay, short term disability benefits, or no pay.  Because prior to FMLA, it was perfectly legal for your employer to fire you because you had to take off for 6 weeks of chemo. Or to take you back but in a much lower position and salary. That said, it would be helpful if companies would provide more coverage to pay or replace wages when someone has to be out, and it sucks that your company has jerked you around in processing the paperwork and has rejected claims that they should have approved.