Figure Skating

[peachmangosteen]

15 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

My guide entitles it "Best of." Filmed in Vegas. So, absolutely no help. 😁

LOL. I just checked TV Guide and it says "The U.S. Championships concludes with the Las Vegas Skating Spectacular exhibition event," so hopefully that one is right!

[healthnut]

ISU ruled today to go ahead with World Championships.  Papadakis & Cizeron have said they’re not going and as far as I know Canada hasn’t changed their stance on not sending their s athletes (although that’s not an official ruling, more of a threat). I don’t believe anyone else has said they’re not going, although they were probably waiting on a ruling. They are supposed to be having a bubble in Sweden where they are to be held two months from now. No word on tech minimum rulings for skaters like Vincent Zhou and Knierim/Frazier. 

[Jeddah]

37 minutes ago, healthnut said:

ISU ruled today to go ahead with World Championships.  Papadakis & Cizeron have said they’re not going and as far as I know Canada hasn’t changed their stance on not sending their s athletes (although that’s not an official ruling, more of a threat). I don’t believe anyone else has said they’re not going, although they were probably waiting on a ruling. They are supposed to be having a bubble in Sweden where they are to be held two months from now. No word on tech minimum rulings for skaters like Vincent Zhou and Knierim/Frazier. 

Yikes! That seems like a huge mistake to me.

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Yikes! That seems like a huge mistake to me.

It will be fine.  LasVegas showed that it can be fine.  Thousands at football games are fine.  If I was a coach Frank Carroll's age, I might sit it out, but I would go IF I WAS VACCINATED.  Why not?

[Jeddah]

1 hour ago, AuntieDiane6 said:

It will be fine.  LasVegas showed that it can be fine.  Thousands at football games are fine.  If I was a coach Frank Carroll's age, I might sit it out, but I would go IF I WAS VACCINATED.  Why not?

Having thousands at football games has not been fine. So many teams have had outbreaks. So many skaters caught it at Cup of Russia. And these skaters aren’t going to be vaccinated. At least they shouldn’t be unless every old person, essential employee, and anyone with a pre-existing condition has been vaccinated, and we’re nowhere near that happening. Las Vegas was a big risk already. Traveling domestically is a lot different than traveling internationally, especially now that there are mutations developing around the world.

[KittenPokerCheater]

Football games have been dangerous- many people have gotten sick.

The only way I can see Worlds coming off okay is if they are super strict like they were in Vegas.  But I don't think everyone would be willing to follow those kind of rules.

Best of luck to them.  I will watch (although I'm tired of the same three young ladies win.  They are very talented with the jumps, but it feels very mechanical for me.  

Edited January 29, 2021 by KittenPokerCheater
grammar

[AuntieDiane6]

Quote

Thousands (at) football games are definitely spreaders.

Not really.  Thousands of Notre Dame students stormed the field when they beat Clemson.  No big outbreak.  Eight thousand Buffalo Bills' fans showed up at the airport. No big outbreak.  AND TRUST ME, NY WAS MONITORING THE BILLS' FANS.

Quote

So many skaters caught it at Cup of Russia. And these skaters aren’t going to be vaccinated. 

Very true.  Teams WILL be isolated.  On the other hand, the Russians probably have immunity now.  So they are MORE likely to show up and be safe.  

Quote

The only way I can see Worlds coming off okay is if they are super strict like they were in Vegas.  But I don't think everyone would be willing to follow those kind of rules.

If I were a skater and the Olympics were looming in the next 12 months, I would be wearing a hazmat suit on the plane!  

 

 

 

 

 

[carrier76]

Have all of the big Russian skaters had it? I only ask because when I think of people not following directions/rules, I immediately think of them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

[SeanC]

6 hours ago, carrier76 said:

Have all of the big Russian skaters had it? I only ask because when I think of people not following directions/rules, I immediately think of them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

Among people conceivably going to Worlds, Trusova hasn’t had it as far as we know, and some of the pair girls. Almost everyone else has, though.

[annzeepark914]

18 hours ago, carrier76 said:

Have all of the big Russian skaters had it? I only ask because when I think of people not following directions/rules, I immediately think of them. 🤷🏻‍♀️

They better follow the rules. Masks hanging under their noses should not be allowed (I'm thinking of some of their coaches). Anyone caught not following the rules needs to be told to leave. 

[ChicksDigScars]

On 1/28/2021 at 3:09 PM, healthnut said:

ISU ruled today to go ahead with World Championships.  Papadakis & Cizeron have said they’re not going and as far as I know Canada hasn’t changed their stance on not sending their s athletes (although that’s not an official ruling, more of a threat). I don’t believe anyone else has said they’re not going, although they were probably waiting on a ruling. They are supposed to be having a bubble in Sweden where they are to be held two months from now. No word on tech minimum rulings for skaters like Vincent Zhou and Knierim/Frazier. 

Oh shit. You mean there's a possibility that the Entitlement Twins can win a World Championship?  Oh, please, Chock and Bates, bring that A-Game. I don't think I can handle Hubbell and Douche Donahue being forever titled with "World Champions."

Then again, the alternative of Sinitsina and Katsalapov winning is just as nauseating. GO Chock and Bates!!!!! 

Can someone explain the tech ruling minimum issue? 

 

Edited February 1, 2021 by ChicksDigScars

[annzeepark914]

I dunno...S/K are beautiful skaters (especially Katsalapov!!). If Chock & Bates can't be on top of the podium, let it be S/K. The thought of The E. Twins winning Worlds is depressing. I can still see their empty seats at the 2018 Olympic team competitions (off practicing instead of cheering on their teammates). 

 

[peachmangosteen]

Every time I watch H/D I just think of when I went to Stars on Ice and they got like no reaction from the audience. It was so clear that no one there gave a shit about them. And you could tell they were both so desperate for attention. It was hilarious.

Who all from the US is going to the Worlds? I remember seeing them announce the women (Karen and Bradie, right?) but not anyone else.

[Growsonwalls]

I hope P/C are okay. It's worrying that they are apparently still battling with symptoms from covid, as is Alena Kostornaia.

[emmawoodhouse]

And Vika Sinitsina is still a question mark. She may have sustained permanent lung damage. 😢

[healthnut]

7 hours ago, ChicksDigScars said:

Can someone explain the tech ruling minimum issue? 

You need a minimum technical score to compete at Worlds and Olympics. It's different for each discipline and you need one every two years in order to compete at these comps. This never really affects US skaters, but can be a real issue for some federations, like last year for the Canadian women. However, this year it does affect Vincent Zhou and Knierim/Frazier. Knierim/Frazier are a new team so their scores with previous partners do not count. Vincent's issue is that his only international competition last year was US Classic where he got tech minimums for the short program but not the long program. Domestic competitions i.e Nationals do not count because they have domestic panels and inflated scoring. Skate America had a domestic panel therefore it did not count as it would in a normal season. US skaters have been unable to travel to Europe to attend challengers like Nebelhorn. There is a competition in the Netherlands called Challenge Cup but I don't think they are sending any skaters there but instead hoping for an exemption. I believe Evgeny Plushenko received an exemption to skate at Sochi in 2014. I don't think exemptions are very common, I'm not sure what the ISU will decide. I hope that helps.

[ChicksDigScars]

5 hours ago, annzeepark914 said:

 The thought of The E. Twins winning Worlds is depressing. I can still see their empty seats at the 2018 Olympic team competitions (off practicing instead of cheering on their teammates). 

 

Yup. Chock and Bates showed up to wave flags, even though the Shibs were skating both ice dance sections of the Team Competition. But H&D seemingly felt entitled to be chosen for the Team Event, due to them winning Nationals that year. Made no difference that the Shibs were the defending World Silver Medalists at the time and it could have gone either way. Yeah, that's really what soured me on them, too. 

Thanks for the explanation on the minimum requirements. Makes sense. You'd think that Zhou and Knerim/Frazier would be granted exemptions. The travel restrictions and cancelled events are not their fault. This is an unusual year. Exemptions should be granted.

Edited February 2, 2021 by ChicksDigScars

[SeanC]

3 hours ago, peachmangosteen said:

Who all from the US is going to the Worlds? I remember seeing them announce the women (Karen and Bradie, right?) but not anyone else.

Top three from the men and dance podiums (pending Zhou getting an exemption from minimums) and top two from pairs (pending Knierim/Frazier getting an exemption).

I just found that the Olympic Channel has the 2010 Olympic ladies' event up on its website.  Finally!  For some reason these videos weren't on their official YouTube channel (unlike the other three disciplines), and most of the programs are hard to find in any quality these days.

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/video/detail/women-s-short-program-figure-skating-vancouver-2010-replays/

https://www.olympicchannel.com/en/video/detail/women-s-free-program-figure-skating-vancouver-2010-replays/

Oh Caro, 19th place in the free skate.

Joannie, still so moving after all these years.  Her story there was like a movie (well, in the movie she'd have somehow beaten Kim Yuna, but let's say a realistic movie).

[Growsonwalls]

I found this interview with Gabby Papadakis:

 

It's nice. She's a lot funnier and happier than I expected. I feel so bad for her that most of the world remembers her, years later, as the "nip slip" girl. And her horrified, embarrassed look throughout that Olympic competition is how many casuals think of her.

[displayname]

Oh, @ChicksDigScars your salt always makes me laugh. The Tech mins issue is resolved though. They'll be using the minimums obtained as early as the 2018-19 season, or skaters can submit videos for evaluation to the ISU to obtain their minimums. They also said something about juniors, but I paid less attention to that. https://www.isu.org/figure-skating/news/news-fsk/13421-entries-in-the-isu-world-figure-skating-championships-2021?

 

Edited February 2, 2021 by displayname

[healthnut]

They literally just reported the tech minimum ruling this morning, I checked last night before I posted. I’m glad they’re giving people options, it was the right thing to do. 

[SeanC]

Marie-France said in the past that IAM envisioned helping its students set up their own schools in the future, and I guess the future is now:

https://www.iceacademyofmontreal.com/ontario

IAM Ontario, with head coach Scott Moir.

There’s speculation this is where Carreira/Ponomarenko are going since they ditched Igor last week but didn’t announce alternative arrangements.

This seems like a setup that could be repeated with other IAM people as they retire, leading to a global network of schools.

Edited February 2, 2021 by SeanC

[ChicksDigScars]

There are four Moir's on that coaching staff @ IAM Ontario.

Didn't hear about C/P ditching Igor! Wow. That's interesting.

 

 

 

Edited February 3, 2021 by ChicksDigScars

[HartofDixie]

On 2/2/2021 at 4:55 PM, SeanC said:

Marie-France said in the past that IAM envisioned helping its students set up their own schools in the future, and I guess the future is now:

https://www.iceacademyofmontreal.com/ontario

IAM Ontario, with head coach Scott Moir.

There’s speculation this is where Carreira/Ponomarenko are going since they ditched Igor last week but didn’t announce alternative arrangements.

This seems like a setup that could be repeated with other IAM people as they retire, leading to a global network of schools.

Don’t they need to live in the US in order for Christina to get her citizenship?

[SeanC]

52 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

Don’t they need to live in the US in order for Christina to get her citizenship?

Yes, I think the speculation was generally that they'd be doing a split arrangement.

I don't know of the wisdom of that, particularly now, but that's just what people are wondering.  Leaving Shpilband, there's a limited number of high-profile options in the USA, which for whatever reason right now has tons of dance talent but no especially influential school at the moment; Marina, who has been way lower profile since the Shibutanis went on hiatus, would be the most notable option.

[healthnut]

Kamila Valieva landed a clean triple axel at this competition today. Very nice short program. 

Edited February 6, 2021 by healthnut

[KittenPokerCheater]

Who is her coach? I'm impressed.

[emmawoodhouse]

7 hours ago, KittenPokerCheater said:

Who is her coach? I'm impressed.

Pretty sure she's from Eteri's stable of wunderkinds.

[Quof]

Not sure which annoys me more: 

1.  no one wearing a mask

2.  her hands over her head for every jump

[Avaleigh]

21 hours ago, healthnut said:

Kamila Valieva landed a clean triple axel at this competition today. Very nice short program. 

I wasn't sure that any of the girls from Eteri's group would be able to get a triple axel since their axel technique isn't great, but Kamila's is looking pretty good! (I think I remember reading that Eteri has a couple of ten or eleven year olds who have them too so we'll see if they'll be able to keep them.)

Kamila seems like she's peaking at the right time the way that Alina was. I'm not counting out the A group or Daria (or Elizaveta) but the Russians seem like they're aching to crown her next season. 

Yes, I do wish masks and social distancing were taken more seriously by the Russians considering how many people including their own athletes have been affected. That being said, I do like that they're providing opportunities for their athletes to compete. I don't see the need for the audiences and wish they were doing the bubble thing the US did for nationals, but I think stuff like this is helping the Russians stay more competitive than the US or Canada. The Olympics are less than a year away and it's almost like a season and a half has been lost. 

As far as the ladies go, I think Rika is the only non Russian who has a realistic shot at the podium. Amber is basically the only top American lady who can be counted on to fully rotate her jumps and USFS couldn't even see the wisdom in sending her to Worlds.

[SeanC]

It's official, Carreira & Ponomarenko are going to be coached by Scott Moir.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLCeY8MnVNn/

[HartofDixie]

https://www.teamusa.org/News/2021/February/10/Adam-Rippon-Announces-Engagement-To-Jussi-Pekka-Kajaala

[Crs97]

Congratulations to Adam and Jussi!

[HartofDixie]

https://youtu.be/1OVGx8vb-K4

 

Edited February 14, 2021 by HartofDixie

[HartofDixie]

https://www.today.com/news/remembering-1961-us-figure-skating-world-team-plane-crash-t208568

[andromeda331]

13 minutes ago, HartofDixie said:

https://www.today.com/news/remembering-1961-us-figure-skating-world-team-plane-crash-t208568

I don't remember hearing about this. How horrible.

[annzeepark914]

5 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't remember hearing about this. How horrible.

I don't recall this but, back then, there wasn't much TV coverage (nor any other media) of figure skating. I can't recall seeing Nationals on TV (forget World's!) Nothing like today (which is still lacking).

[Jeddah]

7 hours ago, andromeda331 said:

I don't remember hearing about this. How horrible.

The first time I heard about it was in a story about Frank Carroll where he talked about Maribel Vinson Owen being his coach. He had such good things to say about her. It was such a huge tragedy. 
USFS has a memorial fund that pays for some skaters’ training.

[emmawoodhouse]

I'm pretty sure that the proceeds from the cardboard cutouts at Skate America and Nationals went to the Memorial Fund.

[Good Queen Jane]

15 hours ago, emmawoodhouse said:

I'm pretty sure that the proceeds from the cardboard cutouts at Skate America and Nationals went to the Memorial Fund.

They did.

Figure skating didn't get much television time until ABC's Wide World of Sports started covering it (which, incidentally, started at the US Nationals the year after the plane crash.) It was Peggy Fleming who really captivated America's interest in the sport, followed by all the "American Ice Princesses" who followed her, that pretty well dominated the Ladies World and Olympic competitions in the 70's and 80's.

 

[emmawoodhouse]

A monument has been erected at the crash site.

https://www.instagram.com/p/CLXXNxRAqtY/?igshid=1lzfuh478fy0e

[Avaleigh]

Has anyone read about the comments David Wilson made in a podcast about Skate Canada needing new leadership going forward? 

He basically thinks it was a bad call for nationals to be cancelled and points out that the world junior hockey championships that Canada hosted was still allowed to take place.

I do get his points about how it seems like hockey gets preferential treatment over skating because the world junior hockey championships is a larger event that involves way more people than skating nationals. 

This all made me think about how the Olympic team event will turn out next year.

I can't see Canada repeating their win. The Russians pretty much have that gold locked down. The US is a safe bet for silver. Bronze though seems really up in the air. Japan seems like they have a realistic shot even without having a strong pair team. They aren't great yet in dance either but there seems to have been some improvement at least. China doesn't have a strong dance team but they're reasonably competitive in singles and are obviously super strong in pairs. Canada doesn't seem to have any top singles at the moment. Roman has a lot of potential but I don't think any of the ladies are going to be strong enough (basing this on last year's nationals). Not sure if dance and pairs will be enough to pull them through.

[Jeddah]

3 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

This all made me think about how the Olympic team event will turn out next year.

I can't see Canada repeating their win. The Russians pretty much have that gold locked down. The US is a safe bet for silver. Bronze though seems really up in the air. Japan seems like they have a realistic shot even without having a strong pair team. They aren't great yet in dance either but there seems to have been some improvement at least. China doesn't have a strong dance team but they're reasonably competitive in singles and are obviously super strong in pairs. Canada doesn't seem to have any top singles at the moment. Roman has a lot of potential but I don't think any of the ladies are going to be strong enough (basing this on last year's nationals). Not sure if dance and pairs will be enough to pull them through.

I would love for Japan to become a threat in the team competition. I’ll be curious about how much Daisuke has improved as an ice dancer by then, and if he goes to the Olympics. 

If Morgan Cipres hadn’t been so creepy and awful, France would have been in the mix as long as Papadakis/Cizeron competed in the team event. I don’t see France doing that well now.

I hope you’re right about the US being able to get silver! That would be great!

[SeanC]

11 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

Has anyone read about the comments David Wilson made in a podcast about Skate Canada needing new leadership going forward? 

He basically thinks it was a bad call for nationals to be cancelled and points out that the world junior hockey championships that Canada hosted was still allowed to take place.

I do get his points about how it seems like hockey gets preferential treatment over skating because the world junior hockey championships is a larger event that involves way more people than skating nationals. 

As to nationals, he's off.  It's not the federation's fault that the World Juniors have gold-plated financing and figure skating doesn't; Skate Canada could never afford the kind of health measures that the World Juniors needed to be allowed to happen.

11 hours ago, Avaleigh said:

I can't see Canada repeating their win. The Russians pretty much have that gold locked down. The US is a safe bet for silver. Bronze though seems really up in the air. Japan seems like they have a realistic shot even without having a strong pair team. They aren't great yet in dance either but there seems to have been some improvement at least. China doesn't have a strong dance team but they're reasonably competitive in singles and are obviously super strong in pairs. Canada doesn't seem to have any top singles at the moment. Roman has a lot of potential but I don't think any of the ladies are going to be strong enough (basing this on last year's nationals). Not sure if dance and pairs will be enough to pull them through.

For the bronze medal, China, Canada, Italy and Japan all have shots at it.  It's going to depend, I suspect, on how ordinals shake down in the singles disciplines in particular.

[Avaleigh]

8 hours ago, SeanC said:

As to nationals, he's off.  It's not the federation's fault that the World Juniors have gold-plated financing and figure skating doesn't; Skate Canada could never afford the kind of health measures that the World Juniors needed to be allowed to happen.

Wilson did acknowledge that it comes down to money. I think from his perspective it's hard when he sees that the US, Russia, Japan and Italy were all able to have their national championships.

In any case, money isn't the official reason Skate Canada gave regarding nationals being cancelled. They were mainly talking about rink closures and certain athletes not having the time to properly prepare during the Covid lockdown. Wilson argues that athletes would have traveled to the rinks that are open.

[SeanC]

4 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

In any case, money isn't the official reason Skate Canada gave regarding nationals being cancelled. They were mainly talking about rink closures and certain athletes not having the time to properly prepare during the Covid lockdown. Wilson argues that athletes would have traveled to the rinks that are open.

That argument doesn’t work in his favour either, since the government has been begging people not to travel right now, so his solution is just another disregarding of the pandemic.

[Avaleigh]

2 minutes ago, SeanC said:

That argument doesn’t work in his favour either, since the government has been begging people not to travel right now, so his solution is just another disregarding of the pandemic.

That's the reason he was annoyed about the world junior hockey championships going forward. People were allowed to travel for that during the pandemic but that was okay. Plus it was an international event so he feels like there's a double standard. 

[SeanC]

15 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

That's the reason he was annoyed about the world junior hockey championships going forward. People were allowed to travel for that during the pandemic but that was okay. Plus it was an international event so he feels like there's a double standard. 

They all quarantined for two weeks on arrival.

[Avaleigh]

50 minutes ago, SeanC said:

They all quarantined for two weeks on arrival.

Right. And skaters could have done the same.

[SeanC]

27 minutes ago, Avaleigh said:

Right. And skaters could have done the same.

After being off the ice for two weeks you’d have had to give them at least two weeks of training before competing, meaning it would have taken about a month to hold nationals.  That was totally unaffordable.