Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[wonderwall]

7 minutes ago, Angel12d said:

I don't think Olicity getting back together or more OTA focus/less newbie focus will affect the ratings at all. I think the 0.6 demo is just how they are these days. That 0.5 probably happened because the Very Special Episode the previous week was (by the sounds of it) a steaming pile of crap and no one watches Arrow to be preached at. 

What I meant was, people celebrating it getting a 0.5 and assume that's going to be the new normal... Not that I think it. Wasn't every DCTV show down that week?

[Morrigan2575]

Just now, wonderwall said:

What I meant was, people celebrating it getting a 0.5 and assume that's going to be the new normal... Not that I think it. Wasn't every DCTV show down that week?

Yes and, so was SPN.

[Guest]

7 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

What I meant was, people celebrating it getting a 0.5 and assume that's going to be the new normal... Not that I think it. Wasn't every DCTV show down that week?

Oh, I knew what you were saying. I was just saying I don't think 0.5 is the new normal either. But I do think 0.6 is tbh. And I'm not sure anything will change that now. 

But yeah, I don't get why anyone would celebrate low ratings tbh. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by Guest

[wonderwall]

Just now, Angel12d said:

Oh, I knew what you were saying. I was just saying I don't think 0.5 is the new normal either. But I do think 0.6 is tbh. And I'm not sure anything will change that now. 

Agreed.

They screwed the pooch in season 4 with the terrible writing. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by wonderwall

[thegirlsleuth]

I do think the terrible writing of Season 4 drove off a lot of people permanently, but I do think more OTA/Olicity might halt a further slide. Just my opinion--I don't have any facts to back up that opinion.

[calliope1975]

2 hours ago, tangerine95 said:

Yeah there was that quote from WM about them not necessarily getting back together this season but imo its been shown since that she has an unfortunate way of wording things so I think that was her attempt to be ambiguous about it. 

Didn't WM also say they just didn't know if SA/EBR still had chemistry? I discount everything she says after that comment. 

[wonderwall]

4 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Didn't WM also say they just didn't know if SA/EBR still had chemistry? I discount everything she says after that comment. 

I'm still waiting on Oliver to pull a couple of fast ones on Felicity in order to help Diggle LMAO

[insomniadreams88]

Just now, wonderwall said:

I'm still waiting on Oliver to pull a couple of fast ones on Felicity in order to help Diggle LMAO

That happened back when Felicity had a "spring in her step" from her relationship with the guy she couldn't even call her boyfriend and called by his job and last name most of the time. 

Also, remember, it was Chase who got Diggle out of prison. (That one annoys me so much.) 

[tangerine95]

9 minutes ago, calliope1975 said:

Didn't WM also say they just didn't know if SA/EBR still had chemistry? I discount everything she says after that comment. 

Yeah she kept saying how they'll go back to olicity if the chemistry takes them there or something which makes no sense. Most of her interviews just don't reflect the show imo, she embellishes and sometimes even makes stuff up. 

[Morrigan2575]

2 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

I'm still waiting on Oliver to pull a couple of fast ones on Felicity in order to help Diggle LMAO

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think we could probably go back through her quotes vs episode and find what they meant. For this quote I'm betting she's talking about stealing the device from PT.

For Spring in her step quote...I hate to say it but, I'd bet good money they were talking about the afternoon quickie.

[tangerine95]

Wasn't the pulling a fast one on Felicity quote recent, like about the 5. 11 stuff? I remember reading that and being annoyed about the idea of Oliver doing that again when Felicity was trying to get Digg out too. 

[kismet]

6 hours ago, lemotomato said:

And last season MG and company convinced comic fans that they don't matter and that the show had abandoned comic elements. So maybe they've always sucked at knowing how to deal with fans on social media, but this season it just happened to be the 'shippers turn get dumped on.

It really does seems like they don't know how to balance their portions of fandoms. They court one subset and then turn on them. The subsets just rotate. The problem is some groups are not as forgiving as other groups. And at some point, people just won't return for this behavior. Eventually they will wear down and lose all their fans.

[insomniadreams88]

5 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

For Spring in her step quote...I hate to say it but, I'd bet good money they were talking about the afternoon quickie.

Maybe? But wasn't it about Oliver noticing the "spring in her step"? If Billy had never been recruited for the ACU, he never would have met HT-as-Oliver and HT never would have told Oliver about him and nothing on-screen seemed to suggest that Oliver would have thought that Felicity was dating someone. 

I think what it comes down to is that the EPs have a list of talking points they want to get across in interviews, so they find a way to bring them up because it has to do with the arc of the season. For example, Felicity "moving on" first so that Oliver could date Susan for that plot. They can't say, "Well, Felicity's dating this guy because we need her to so Oliver can date the reporter even though we're going to kill off her BF and then forget that they were ever together." So instead, we get the quotes we do.

3 minutes ago, tangerine95 said:

Wasn't the pulling a fast one on Felicity quote recent, like about the 5. 11 stuff? I remember reading that and being annoyed about the idea of Oliver doing that again when Felicity was trying to get Digg out too. 

It was. It was one of the midseason interviews that was released. 

[wonderwall]

44 minutes ago, Morrigan2575 said:

I'm going to go out on a limb here. I think we could probably go back through her quotes vs episode and find what they meant. For this quote I'm betting she's talking about stealing the device from PT.

 

No, this interview dropped aroudn episode 10 so it can't be that.

[Morrigan2575]

4 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

No, this interview dropped aroudn episode 10 so it can't be that.

Then perhaps it hasn't played out yet or perhaps it was cut.from the episode.

[kismet]

I don't get people cheering on the low ratings. That's just weird, I also don't understand Hate watching anything.

But I do get people not being upset or being pseudo-happy about a drop in ratings, because frankly I'm one of those people. Yes, I want the ratings to drop to help the show research and course correct their problems/mistakes. I do think the only way to get the show to consider changing is by impacting their ratings and advertising. Social Media is nice, but these shows are still pretty traditional. So they may get some ideas and encouragement from Social Media, but ratings drops forces changes.

And yes, I realize that the changes may not be what I want. And I know I need to be careful for what a wish for. However, at the end of the day if the show course corrects in a way that is even worse it won't matter to me what the ratings are, because I will just be done with the show. So for me a ratings drop is nothing but a good thing when the show is the mess it is now.

As for social media & streaming, it is changing the game - so perhaps ratings won't be as important in the future. But the way Arrow handles social media is not going garner a supportive fandom. I have been parts of 3 fandoms to a various degrees that have saved their shows and never once did the show's producers and writers treat the fans the way Arrow does. You have to encourage and provide a sense of positivity and love for your fans. Fans have to feel like part of the family or at least part of the equation. Arrow tends to treat its fans with condescension, disrespect and at times loathing. If Arrow was ever in a save your show campaign and it was still the heap pack of crap it is now, you can bet I would not be part of the campaign. And I would bet that a lot of other fans, might also take a hard pass on saving the show. I would never actively sabotage a campaign, because that is weird (and a little sad imo). But I would not feel encouraged to participate. Why would I? Arrow has made it clear that I am not relevant to their mission. Sometimes you reap what you sow.

Edited February 28, 2017 by kismet
changed of the word "that" to drop in ratings

[Chaser]

20 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

No, this interview dropped aroudn episode 10 so it can't be that.

Are we sure it wasn't Oliver going on that side mission in Russia?

[statsgirl]

2 hours ago, LeighAn said:

So essentially the CW sounds like they do have resources to research how audiences are responding. It's just a matter of whether they are going to spend those resources on a show in its fifth season or dedicate it to one of their newer shows like Riverdale for instances that they are trying to launch.

The cost of a focus group is peanuts compared to price an advertiser pays for a commercial on the show.  And the higher the ratings, the more money they make from selling commercials.

2 hours ago, Morrigan2575 said:

Additionally fans throw out comments like I hope the ratings drop and the show realizes what they're doing wrong and correct their mistakes. This is of course false, what they really mean is I hope the ratings tank and the show gives me what I want. For this board that means, Olicity, OTA, get rid of the masks, etc. Of course there's no guarantee that the EPs, CW, WB will look at the ratings drop and go oooohhh of course it's because we broke Olicity up!  The reality is, Olicity may have nothing to do with the drop in ratings.  The reality is that any course correction might be the opposite of what you (general you) want.

We don't know the reality.  That's why I badly want Arrow to figure out why it's bleeding viewers and course correct enough to keep the show on the air and good enough that I want to keep watching it.

Of course, maybe CW doesn't care. They've got their 6 seasons out of Arrow and the set up for a whole superhero universe and they don't care if it drops down the  hole now.  It seems crazy to me because good p.r. is better than "This show was fun but now it's all crap" but I don't work in TV drama.  Anyone could have told t hem why Sleepy Hollow was failing s2 and 3 but they just doubled down on what was bad.

I'm watching Supergirl right now and it looks like they really want Mon El to be the hero because they've taken every complaint against him and fixed it.  He's a frat boy who doesn't care about anything but himself?  Fixed.  He's not good enough for Kara? Fixed.  He is self-centred and only cares about what he need?  Mon El was the

Spoiler

only one to see Jeremiah was suspicious.

Almost anything can be fixed if TPTB want it enough.

[BkWurm1]

54 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I'm watching Supergirl right now and it looks like they really want Mon El to be the hero because they've taken every complaint against him and fixed it.  He's a frat boy who doesn't care about anything but himself?  Fixed.  He's not good enough for Kara? Fixed.  He is self-centred and only cares about what he need?  Mon El was the

  Hide contents

only one to see Jeremiah was suspicious.

Almost anything can be fixed if TPTB want it enough.

And yet I still did the shiver of grossed out during their morning after kiss (and by then they were fully clothed!)

[Mellowyellow]

11 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And yet I still did the shiver of grossed out during their morning after kiss (and by then they were fully clothed!)

I want to care about them I do!!!!!!! I want to move on from Olicity and find something else to ship! But I just DON'T CARE!!!!!!

[statsgirl]

I"m totally grossed out by that too but that's because of what went on in earlier episodes.  If this were the first episode I saw, where Mon El is loving, supportive and understanding, capped by that really sweet moment at the end, I might be shipping them.

That didn't come out of nowhere, and he's copletely unlike the character he was introduced as.  I don't know if they figured it out from focus groups, reviews, or social media but it can be figured out and fixed if it's not too late.

The question is, is it too late for Arrow?

[BkWurm1]

21 minutes ago, Mellowyellow said:

I want to care about them I do!!!!!!! I want to move on from Olicity and find something else to ship! But I just DON'T CARE!!!!!!

Yeah, I want to like them as well.  I don't actually dislike Mon-el on his own or even dislike him and Kara as friends and thought I'd be at least neutral when they got together but turns out, they gross me out, lol. 

Shipping is something I'm very open to, I've been shipping since my cartoon days but not just any old pair makes me sit up and care.  I'm watching a number of shows where there are romances going on but Olicity is still the only one right now that makes me take notice.  I'd love it if I could ship Iris and Barry.  I don't anti-ship them but I just can't bring myself to really care or feel their scenes, but I still get excited over random tweets just mentioning Olicity's existence.  

14 minutes ago, statsgirl said:

I"m totally grossed out by that too but that's because of what went on in earlier episodes.  If this were the first episode I saw, where Mon El is loving, supportive and understanding, capped by that really sweet moment at the end, I might be shipping them.

That didn't come out of nowhere, and he's copletely unlike the character he was introduced as.  I don't know if they figured it out from focus groups, reviews, or social media but it can be figured out and fixed if it's not too late.

The question is, is it too late for Arrow?

For some it is too late.  They're gone and not coming back.  For others, I'd say they could be lured back to play catch up if they start to hear good things and then those eyeballs might show up again next season.  But nothing is going to change for the better at this point until they try to change.  I'm moderately hopeful right now.  I think we have a chance they are getting ready for a pivot and if that came from focus groups or looking at the ratings, great.  If it came from the plot plotted, well, better late than never.

I think we saw fixes on Rene but those same kind of focused group suggestions aren't really needed for Olicity.  They don't need to know how to do it, they just need to to it.  Let it be a something again and I swear the little Olicity moments just write themselves.  

Edited February 28, 2017 by BkWurm1

[way2interested]

1 minute ago, statsgirl said:

That didn't come out of nowhere, and he's copletely unlike the character he was introduced as.  I don't know if they figured it out from focus groups, reviews, or social media but it can be figured out and fixed if it's not too late.

The question is, is it too late for Arrow?

Tbh, I figured his character was going to go that way since like the 2nd episode he was in. Any changes made with him I see as them NEEDING people to not hate Mon-el because his plot is very much tied into Kara, same with how the changes were made with Rene. I wouldn't really put too much thought into how much they were swayed into changing Mon-el because I'm under the impression that the plot has remained exactly the same but they just tweaked some of his lines, exactly what they're doing with Rene, because they are staying and need to stay whether the audience wants them or not. If there were some actual drastic changes, I would think that they would have dropped the romance story altogether (or very much retooled it)/made Rene the one to leave instead of Rory, etc. 

[Mellowyellow]

6 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

Yeah, I want to like them as well.  I don't actually dislike Mon-el on his own or even dislike him and Kara as friends and thought I'd be at least neutral when they got together but turns out, they gross me out, lol. 

Shipping is something I'm very open to, I've been shipping since my cartoon days but not just any old pair makes me sit up and care.  I'm watching a number of shows where there are romances going on but Olicity is still the only one right now that makes me take notice.  I'd love it if I could ship Iris and Barry.  I don't anti-ship them but I just can't bring myself to really care or feel their scenes, but I still get excited over random tweets just mentioning Olicity's existence.  

 

Me!!!!!! OMG SO ME!!!!!!!

I watch The Flash not wanting anything bad to happen to Barry and Iris but I just can't (and I've tried) to muster up the crazy, heart pumping, squeeeing enthusiasm I have for Olicity. I WANT to get crazy excited about WestAllen though I just don't! I've tried! 

Like you if I see something remotely Olicityish I freak the crap out out with excitement like my golden retriever does over a box of yum cha! 

I do love FitzSimmons though so that's something! 

[jay741982]

54 minutes ago, BkWurm1 said:

And yet I still did the shiver of grossed out during their morning after kiss (and by then they were fully clothed!)

WOW and her and Jimmy didn't even get that far. She just dumps him easily after pining for him for a while. By the way thanks for warning me about an afterglow scene. Her romance with Douche el is gross 

[BkWurm1]

33 minutes ago, jay741982 said:

WOW and her and Jimmy didn't even get that far. She just dumps him easily after pining for him for a while. By the way thanks for warning me about an afterglow scene. Her romance with Douche el is gross 

It's not a typical afterglow.  

Spoiler

Mon-el wakes up alone and wonders aloud if it was that bad that he chased her off...or that good.  Cue a news report of just how much Supergirl had accomplished that morning. Then Kara comes flying in with flowers for him which made me laugh and a couple cups of coffee.  And only then is there kissing but still I was moved to make a face.  

[EmilyBettFan]

I can see where people are coming from talking about the ratings. They practically put it down our throats that this season is going back to basics, stunts, violence, season one, action, more mask crap.

Yeah you have the same male demographic on Facebook screaming "best season ever" but, the ratings don't show it. 

That I can laugh at because they put so much stock in that. Actually Felicity has trended more than Arrow alone has this entire season. 

Which goes to show you even if you put every aspect together and get people to trend for Arrow in its entirety... Felicity would still beat it.

[theOAfc]

13 hours ago, statsgirl said:

  Either way, sucking up to MG, which is what many of those replies did, has been shown to not going to get you what you want.

My favorite was that one time that he literally insulted a woman who made legit questions about the directors and the lack of female directing so far(back then towards 5x06 there were very few about S5) and fans were replying to him telling him "im sorry you're getting hate" completely ignoring that he literally insulted someone who dared to make criticism over his show. Funnily enough it was olicity fans under his tweet who were kissing his ass.

I think there's a type of mindset that some fans think if they start voicing criticism over the show (or not worshipping the ground of the showrunners) instead of accepting it all as a great masterplan written by genius people,is gonna make the showrunners not make olicity endgame,which is why these fans often show too much love about the season in their effort to somehow even the criticism and prove to them that look there are people who love the way you write olicity and understand that your endgame plans involve their ruinion. Please dont change your plans because people are mean to you. 

I understand enjoying something but suggesting that people are dumb or dont get the characters just because they dont share someone's mindset regarding a show is wrong. Some people would even go far to imply that anyone who is not enjoying the season or how olicity is written dont understand how real relationships work and i cant help but laugh at this type of attitude.

Im sure i saw a couple of tweets suggesting that mindset a couple of months ago. 

Edited February 28, 2017 by theOAfc

[LeighAn]

10 hours ago, wonderwall said:

A thousand times this. 

We all know that the network/DC is dumb as fuck and don't understand Arrow's audience. So it's likely they might not even get a proper handle on WHY viewers are leaving. Heck, they thought bringing in a new BC would be a good idea and the audience is pretty apathetic towards her already (just look at the Collider person's tweet). So it's hard to say they'd attribute the fall in ratings to the Olicity break up - they might attribute it to ROMANCE in general for the drop and that's not a good thing for us shippers. 

Take this with a grain of salt since I never got 100% proof she worked where she said she worked- even though she was very convincing.

The girl I knew from my Gossip Girl days who did an internship with the CW said that they tracked audience feedback online through an independent media analysis company they contracted.

Essentially how she said it was measured was- and I'll use Arrow as a hypothetical example- this company would run a search through various social media entities like Face Book Twitter Tumblr some of the bigger website forums and some comment sections and collate how many times Arrow was mentioned.

So say for instance they got 300,000 Arrow mentions. Theyd report that number to the CW. Then they would break it down in to categories like 70 % positive mentions 20% negative mentions 10% other just for example.

So all the data was presented to them as statistics or numerical data. So if the positive out weighed the negative mentions they may not do anything. If the negative mentions percentage out weigh then they'd use that to decide to do their own deeper research into why through focus groups and surveys.

Because what they don't really get is much information on the content of the negative mentions or the details of people's complaints. Its just a number.

(She said they also get data on how often a character was mentioned or an episode and positive to negative mention percentages So for instance when deciding to kill off Laurel I'd be very surprised if they didn't track her online mentions)

All this to say- of this is true- your absolutely right that in terms of why people are actually upset the CW probably don't have that much understanding of the essence of people's complaints and what is given to them is translated into numbers and percentages anyway. The writers and producers might because it's tweeted at them but the CW probably don't unless they are getting it from focus groups or surveys who may not respond the way the online fandom respond. 

But again this is coming from a second hand source.

[Bort]

Hey all. This conversation is better suited for the Bitterness thread or Mind Your Surroundings for the Supergirl stuff, as none of this conversation has anything to do with Social Media, which is what this thread is supposed to be for. Please pay attention to what thread you're in.

[tv echo]

Replying in the Bitterness thread.

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

Missed one...

Pensacon: Pensacola Comic Con, February 17-19, 2017 (FL)
Wil Traval, Michael Rowe and Matt Ryan (also John Wesley Shipp)
http://pensacon.com

 

Matt Ryan Pensacon 2017 Interview
Published on Feb 24, 2017, by GeeksGamers.Com

-- On whether we'll see Constantine back on Arrow/Flash/LoT, Matt Ryan: "I mean, I don't know, man... I say, never say never, in this business."

Michael Rowe Pensacon 2017 Interview
Published on Feb 18, 2017, by GeeksGamers.Com

Edited February 28, 2017 by tv echo

[tv echo]

[dtissagirl]

...Wow.

[ladylaw99]

Am I crazy to think maybe he should want to promote the show? 

[wonderwall]

I took it as a joke and a dig against the antis who constantly talk about how Olicity fans force the writers to write what they want... So *shrugs*

Edited February 28, 2017 by wonderwall

[apinknightmare]

The funny part about it is that no one tries to get #Arrow trending anymore, haha. 

[wonderwall]

1 minute ago, apinknightmare said:

The funny part about it is that no one tries to get #Arrow trending anymore, haha. 

Lmao! This is so true.

[Belinea]

So, I am torn on this. On the one hand, I don't know what to think if you only help if you get something in return. On the other hand, I don't think his response is all that either. If it is a joke, you really have to know what he is talking about. 

[Morrigan2575]

The whole thing sounded like a joke to me. His tweets are actually pretty funny, gave me a chuckle

[Cleanqueen]

I like Ben and I find him to be the only funny arrow writer on twitter. 

[lemotomato]

His other tweets in the thread make it clear that he's joking. Am I missing something that makes this fuss-worthy?

[Guest]

I think he was joking too but I can't blame anyone for taking it another way, especially when people feel like they've been catering to the anti-Olicity fans this season. 

I'm just laughing at the fact that he thinks fans are trying to trend for the show. Haha. 

[BkWurm1]

Pretty sure the only successful trends have been Felicity/Olicity related.

[LeighAn]

Here's some good social media news Stephen tweeted a link that showed Arrow has helped create 7000 jobs for British Columbia and spending $360 million into the economy. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/StephenAmell/status/836720211260669952

Edited March 1, 2017 by LeighAn
Wrong city :(

[wonderwall]

29 minutes ago, LeighAn said:

Here's some good social media news Stephen tweeted a link that showed Arrow has helped create 7000 jobs for British Columbia and spending $360 million into the economy. 

https://mobile.twitter.com/StephenAmell/status/836720211260669952

Don't you know he's guilt tripping everyone into watching??? *rolls eyes* lol

[BkWurm1]

They're already renewed for next year.  No guilt involved in not watching this year.

[LeighAn]

3 minutes ago, wonderwall said:

Don't you know he's guilt tripping everyone into watching??? *rolls eyes* 

Damned if you do....

[finnaire]

Sounds like he's just proud about his job.

[LeighAn]

He didn't even tweet anything. He just tweeted a link. I think it's just a cool good news thing to share *shrug*