Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

[statsgirl]

ANTM is a bizarre show.  Many of the contestants physically couldn't be high fashion models. I guess you go on it if you want some p.r. buzz for your acting or v.j. career.

 

 

Apparently you can freeze your scalp during chemo treatments; it's painful but you keep your hair. This discussion is helping me understand why that could be important.

I was talking about this withe some friends who h ad gone through chemo and the unanimous opinion was not only is it expensive (this is Canada, the governemtn insurance pays for the chemotherapy itself) but the idea of putting your head in an icepack for 3 hours wasn't worth it. It's bad enough having to put your hands in ice packs during the treatment (so that your fingernails don't fall off).

[kismet]

No, she cried because she didn't want to cut her hair, and then cried and quit the show because she did. It actually looked pretty good on her, lmao.

I actually wondered when this was gonna show up on the thread. I literally could not believe they were the same person. But then again, when she left the show she vowed to get extensions & work on her acting. That she was making the right decsion, even though I thought she was nuts to give up the opportunity. She did wind up getting on Mad Man & securing an extremely attractive & generous husband - so really who is getting the last laugh now? Good lesson in life, never judge a reality show contestant their life can still exceed expectations & editing.

Edited March 27, 2015 by kismet

[BkWurm1]

It's hard not to judge reality show contestants (why would you put yourself through it)  but what we know now about the "reality" in these shows really should be kept in mind.  They tell the stories they want to tell regardless of the truth.  I try hard to avoid them all. 

[kismet]

Somebody in the wardrobe dept is having too much fun with us. I really wish they had a Twitter presence, I love hearing about wardrobe choices. So in reviewing Tumblrs. I have figured out that the outfit FS is wearing in 317 is the same outfit she wore in secret origins of FS. If we remember during this episode OQ revealed that appreciates all the experiences that she has gone through because they make her the person she is today and she "knows how he feels about her", so it was a nice little reminder from the wardrobe that OQ loves FS even if she loves/d other people. His love transcends their current situation, which is nice & a nice reminder considering the unnecessary crap Ray was throwing at her. I also figured out that the dress she wears in 315 that lead into the R/F love scene is the same dress she wore in Flash crossover with OQ. So I think there wardrobe choices go beyond just red & blue. It think they are devious in their choices to remind us of certain feelings, events or interactions. But then again, maybe  Im just reading too much into the wardrobe choices. It is nice that that they repeat wardrobe since it makes it realistic, a person can only have so many clothes. But it does seem like they like are having some fun in wardrobe and make some pretty strong character statements, even if their choices are rogue from the EPs attention, So thank you Arrow wardrobe dept :)

[Velocity23]

I was scared of her during ANTM. Granted i was 11 at the time.

 

  

[wonderwall]

holy shit! :p This actually made me laugh so god damn much!!! I love it

[catrox14]

The thing that puts me in the 'attend' category is that SA will be there.  You know, male and female leads of Arrow together.

\

So EBR is going to be there then?

[Danny Franks]

I only ever watched one episode of America's Next Top Model, and found it so exploitative and cruel that I just cannot abide the idea of it. Granted, it was an episode where one of the girls found out a close friend had just died, and then a couple of days later they just happened to have a photoshoot in a graveyard, complete with posing in freshly dug graves. So the girl breaks down in tears and then gets told to toughen up by the jackass experts or whoever the hell they're supposed to be. Taking advantage of someone's grief for dramatic purposes is vile.

 

But Stephen Amell's wife is a pretty amazing looking woman. I can't even fathom how 'really, really ridiculously good looking' their kid will turn out to be.

[BkWurm1]

Blue Steel all the way baby!

[dcinmb]

I was scared of her during ANTM. Granted i was 11 at the time.

 

  

 

Editing can only do so much to make you seem like a sociopath, especially if you actually admit that you're a sociopath.

 

Before he got married, I'd always thought he and Kristin Kreuk would make a great couple. They're both intelligent, family-oriented, altruistic, down-to-earth, successful, Canadian . . .

 

Edited March 27, 2015 by dcinmb

[Velocity23]

[tv echo]

Some non-spoilery MG responses at http://marcguggenheim.tumblr.com/ - more proof that he remains clueless about some things...

thewildkarenina asked:
Ever since the show returned in January, a growing number of fans are of the opinion that Felicity has been ruined this season (not an opinion I share, but it's grown increasingly prevalent in the comments section of Arrow related articles). The love triangle seems to beget the majority of the blame, with people focusing on Felicity's "disloyalty" to Oliver and Team Arrow. What are your thoughts on this? Will we hear Felicity actually articulate her reasoning / feelings in upcoming episodes?

I appreciate that a lot of fans want to see Felicity with Oliver, but her not being with Oliver — for reasons articulated in 301, 312 and 316 — has nothing to do with a lack of loyalty on her part.  Just because Felicity isn’t with who the fans want her to be with doesn’t make her unlikable, in my opinion.

flowersbooksmusicsex asked:
PLEASE ANSWER! Hi I'm a HUGE fan of Arrow but I don't follow The Flash. Will I need to watch that to understand what is happening in Arrow the rest of the season?

Not at all.

hopeinanddreamin asked:
Wow you all (writers) screwed the pooch this time!!!! Are you all (writers) SOOO STUPID that you would sabotage the best show on TV? I know you say you don't write for FLASH but could you pass this along to the other writers that do. NEXT YEAR WHEN THEY ARE WRITING FOR THE NEW SHOW (WHICH BY THE WAY I WON'T BE WATCHING) DON'T DO TO FLASH WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO ARROW. THEY HAVE PUSHED ARROW TO THE SIDE AND ONLY CONCENTRATED ON THE FLASH! ASHAMED TO HAVE ENCOURAGED CO-WORKERS TO WATCH THIS SHOW

Very sorry you feel that way.

pls-moi asked:
I'm seeing more people expressing fondness for Floyd Lawton than Ray Palmer from both fans and entertainment news sources. I know that I have tried to like Ray, but I really can't yet see a reason to like him. I am sure he must have fans, but I know lots of people who watch; yet, I don't personally know a single fan. Are there plans to make him more likable for his new show? If you are planning to keep him the same, are you concerned that Arrow fans won't watch the new show because of him?

I’m not concerned.  I think the people who don’t like Ray don’t like the idea that he’s Felicity’s love interest over Oliver.

killersmoak asked:
Earlier you wrote that Felicity could molest a puppy or something like that and she would still be loved. So it bums me out when I see a lot of people say that Felicity is fast becoming a character they dislike. I'm disappointed that Felicity's arc only centers around her love life this season and it feels like the show has limited Felicity's role to love interest and her character is suffering for it. I hope you know Felicity's character isn't bulletproof. And hope you rectify this in season 4

I’m sorry, but I’m going to have to agree to disagree with you on this.  I think Felicity has been a very strong person this year.  I don’t understand criticisms that her character doesn’t have her own story.  She’s part of an ensemble.  Sorry this season hasn’t been your cup of tea.

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[kismet]

Seriously delusional about fan response. From the comments hes posted before & likely the ones he doesnt people have made pretty valid points as to why ray is not as successful & felicity is losing popularity. Most of It has nothing to do with Oliver. In fact maybe they should have thought about that before going down the romance love triangle route, its their plot device that links it to oliver. Read the comments mg, very few people refer back to oliver in their posts/? S

Edited March 27, 2015 by kismet

[Morrigan2575]

Someone should send him Natalie Abrams (total Lauriver shipper) and media suck up...or sorry media reporter, tweet about hating Ray to MG maybe then he'll grab a clue.

[tv echo]

MG misses the point - which is that Felicity isn't the star in her story but a supporting character in Ray's hero story.  Diggle, even with his limited screentime, is the star in his ARGUS/Suicide Squad story; he wasn't a supporting character in Lyla's hero story.  Laurel is the star in her Black Canary story; she wasn't a supporting character in Ted Grant's hero story.  Even Thea, despite being a Malcolm puppet, is more the star of her own story with her evolution from spoiled teen to trained fighter.

Edited March 27, 2015 by tv echo

[bethy]

In fairness, MG is hardly likely to say "Yeah. We've pretty much character-assassinated a fan favorite for the spin-off of a character we've been mostly unable to get people to like. So." He can admit to screw ups like leaving poor, electrocuted Roy unconscious on the ground because that's minor point. But to admit the whole season has been a frustrating mess? Probably not. Hopefully (I can hope, right?) that behind the scenes, with fan reaction and reviews mostly on the same page it seems, they're reassessing? Taking a critical look at the stories they're writing and making adjustments? I can hope, right?!

[NumberCruncher]

In fairness, MG is hardly likely to say "Yeah. We've pretty much character-assassinated a fan favorite for the spin-off of a character we've been mostly unable to get people to like. So." He can admit to screw ups like leaving poor, electrocuted Roy unconscious on the ground because that's minor point. But to admit the whole season has been a frustrating mess? Probably not. Hopefully (I can hope, right?) that behind the scenes, with fan reaction and reviews mostly on the same page it seems, they're reassessing? Taking a critical look at the stories they're writing and making adjustments? I can hope, right?!

No, I just think he really is delusional enough to believe Ray and this season are completely awesome.

[SonofaBiscuit]

MG's totally dismissive attitude when it comes to legitimate criticism is what gets shows cancelled or EPs fired.  Just ask that other MG over on Sleepy Hollow.  Unfortunately, I don't see the same thing happening here because no matter how far this show continues to spiral down the black hole of suckitude, people keep watching.  People are trying to tell this dude that he's totally fucking up this show, and he just won't listen.  Nope, it's just that you're some crazy shipper, and you couldn't possibly have any valid points because all of your opinions must be clouded by the fact that you just want Oliver and Felicity together.  This is why I truly believe that next season will be just as bad as this one has been.  Why would the writers fix anything, when clearly there's nothing wrong?

[Password]

That's kind of ironic. Ray saying Felicity's feelings cloud her judgment of Oliver. Our Olicity feels cloud our judgment of Ray.

[FurryFury]

This is why I truly believe that next season will be just as bad as this one has been.  Why would the writers fix anything, when clearly there's nothing wrong?

 

This a common problem of shows with active fandoms. Just look at Once Upon A Time - the show has become basically terrible with horrible writing all around, yet the showrunners are oblivious because they (seemingly) don't want to read any reactions except for Twitter (the lowest common denominator). An excessive amounts of fans on social networks just inflate up these people's egos and they start thinking they can do no wrong.

 

Sleepy Hollow is another story, though - one I'd love to learn one day, because I still can't wrap my head around the fact that the worst written supporting character who was basically begging to be written off in s1 became so prominent in s2. Maybe it was the combination of bad writing and actress favoritism, I don't know, but still, weird.

Edited March 27, 2015 by FurryFury

[quarks]

Once Upon a Time sorta became of a victim of its own early success, though, when Disney realized that they could use the show as a promotional tool for their other projects, changing the show from a fairy tale retelling to a vehicle for discussing Disney products. They even had a toddler dressed up in a little Mickey Mouse costume this season. I'm not really sure that you can blame OUAT fans for that sort of corporate interference, other than maybe that their genuine enthusiasm encouraged Disney to make more money off the show. 

 

I have no idea what happened with Sleepy Hollow, none, but wow, do I want the behind the scenes story on season two at some point.

 

All that said, I agree with the general point that too much discussion with fans can cause problems. Unfortunately, this seems to be a greater trend across the board in the entertainment industry, which is moving more and more into the direction of forcing creators/actors/artists to take a greater role in promotion/fan discussion. I don't think the problem is just contained to ego issues, either, which, for what it's worth, can go in the other direction - negative criticism can have a negative effect on creativity. It includes the very real problem that from a time management perspective alone, it's very difficult to balance creating and doing promotion for stuff you've already done. All else aside, the time Guggenheim spends on Tumblr is time he didn't spend looking over the script/edits and noticing, crap, both Oliver and Ray left an electrocuted Roy just twitching on the street. I'm not saying that he (or others) would have noticed this if not for the Tumblr stuff, but I don't think that Tumblr helped.

[Chaser]

I did get some amusement out of all the people calling him out on RoyGate. It started with 'Our Bad' and by the last one is was 'We fucked up.'

[apinknightmare]

 

This dude, I swear...

[calliope1975]

 

This dude, I swear...

 

What a dick. I wanted to pick up 2.5 when it's collected, but now, I'm rethinking that I don't want to reward this ass. I probably will get it if only to wash the bitterness away from S3.

[Chaser]

It's one thing to say Olicity fans will love the chapter, its another to add a pay-up sentiment. It's so tacky.

[NumberCruncher]

So basically he wants Olicity fans to reward him for depriving them the chance to see the relationship develop organically on the show all the while dismissing their complaints about what they are actually watching on the show itself. What an ass.

[looptab]

It also doesn't support their claims of not-pandering. It really doesn't earn him any favors from any sides of fandom.

[wonderwall]

I sorta wish I didn't get the subscription. But I don't mind. I liked the chapter well enough to purchase it. I don't care what that asshole has to say.

[dtissagirl]

...which is why I read the comics through, uh, alternative means. I refuse to give this dude any money whatsoever.

[Carrie Ann]

He has been on a real roll in the past 24 hours. Someone remove his wifi privileges, please.

[Chaser]

On one hand, I really resent him and don't want him to have my money. And on the other hand, I want him to know that this is what I want to see on my screen. Dollar signs talk. Ugh. I hate this.

[wonderwall]

On one hand, I really resent him and don't want him to have my money. And on the other hand, I want him to know that this is what I want to see on my screen. Dollar signs talk. Ugh. I hate this.

 

It's like Sophie's choice. I suppose for me my interest in O/F far outweighs my resentment for that douche juuuuuuuust by a sliver. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by wonderwall

[SonofaBiscuit]

Problem is, now that MG realizes that this strategy of putting all the Olicity stuff in the comics and then giving fans crap on the show is profitable without costing the show viewers, there's nothing to stop him from doing the exact same thing with the season 3.5 comics.  So he could just end this season with Oliver and Felicity in a good place, and then, repeating the same formula as this season, he'll put all of the stuff that we want to see on the show into the comics again.    

[lexicon]

It's like Sophie's choice. I suppose for me my interest in O/F far outweighs my resentment for that douche juuuuuuuust by a sliver. 

 

I am so over hearing about the comics and how wonderful they are. Why isn't it on my screen? Why do I have to put up with crap on screen and all the wonderful moments are in the comics that I have to buy and you know, PAY EXTRA for? I love the idea of a comics tie-in that shows us what happens during a hiatus but not the way this was handled. I saw someone refer to this as looking at honeymoon pics after the divorce and it certainly feels that way.

 

I still think Oliver/Felicity are the main romantic pairing of the show and are not over by a long shot but I'm hating the fact that they feel like they can just use the relationship conveniently as a cash cow....but yeah I also don't want low sales to translate as a lack of interest or dwindling excitement with the pairing. It's a real catch 22 alright. Devious bastards probably have us exactly where they want us.

Edited March 27, 2015 by lexicon

[Sunshine]

Doesn't really bother me.  It might if he hadn't been asked a gazillion times on twitter about when/did Oliver give Felicity the bottle of wine for almost 2 years now.  Based on the id's the askers were obviously Olicity fans. 

Edited March 27, 2015 by Sunshine

[SmallScreenDiva]

Believe me, I get the whole "I want to see this on my screen" and "I don't want to give this asshole my money" and everything in between. But I am buying the comics because I want to show support for Olicity in a way that can actually be quantified. His tweet IS incredibly tacky, but I'm not sacrifice the chance of making the CW, DC Comics or WB TV aware of my support for these characters just because I'm not too fond of the showrunner.

[apinknightmare]

I've purchased about half of the issues, but all of the ones since Felicity's been kidnapped. So, I'll buy this one. 

 

But the "vote with your dollars" comment is not a good look. Is that his not-so-subtle way of saying that if they sell enough they'll keep Oliver and Felicity as the main romantic pair? Because otherwise, vote for what? 

[tennisgurl]

 

Just look at Once Upon A Time - the show has become basically terrible with horrible writing all around, yet the showrunners are oblivious because they (seemingly) don't want to read any reactions except for Twitter (the lowest common denominator).

Oh lord. Once Upon A Time is such an interesting show to look at, from a social media stand point. Its basically the perfect example of show runners having a favorite character, only listening to fans of that character, and changing the entire show to allow their pet character to be the star. Its a never ending cycle of a small circle of Twitter fans and the show runners, constantly high fiving each other over their awful story, while the rest of the world rip's out their hair in frustration. 

 

MG`s response really pisses me off. Its that attitude that a lot of creators seem to develop when they do something that many fans don't like. They kind of go on the defensive. If you don't like it, its YOUR fault! Our story is perfect, there's something wrong with YOU! 

[Danny Franks]

MG's totally dismissive attitude when it comes to legitimate criticism is what gets shows cancelled or EPs fired.  Just ask that other MG over on Sleepy Hollow.  Unfortunately, I don't see the same thing happening here because no matter how far this show continues to spiral down the black hole of suckitude, people keep watching.  People are trying to tell this dude that he's totally fucking up this show, and he just won't listen.  Nope, it's just that you're some crazy shipper, and you couldn't possibly have any valid points because all of your opinions must be clouded by the fact that you just want Oliver and Felicity together.  This is why I truly believe that next season will be just as bad as this one has been.  Why would the writers fix anything, when clearly there's nothing wrong?

 

Exactly. As long as the ratings remain stable, Guggenheim can treat the fans and their criticism pretty much however he likes. It seems like he is truly and deliberately ignorant of the nature of those complaints, though.

 

Because even if he can't admit he made a huge mess and doesn't know how to clean it up, he could at least be diplomatic and accept the criticisms while making some effort to explain why they have made the choices they made. Instead, he just vomits out blanket generalisations like, 'people don't like Ray because he's with Felicity', which is just flat out wrong, as far as I can tell. But these egotistical showrunner types usually live with their heads in the clouds, thinking they know what fans want better than fans do.

 

But again, we come back to the fact that people are still buying his shit. That's the crux of it. He will never accept what these fans are trying to say unless people stop watching. 

[tennisgurl]

Oh, and because apparently MG and Co. didn't actually MEAN to have Roy get electrocuted and left in a heap by Oliver and Ray (seriously, what?), we probably wont get the scene I have been dreaming of all day: Thea getting all in Rays face over hurting her kinda boyfriend! Or, you know, punching him in his smug, smug face. Whatever works. 

[statsgirl]

Problem is, now that MG realizes that this strategy of putting all the Olicity stuff in the comics and then giving fans crap on the show is profitable without costing the show viewers, there's nothing to stop him from doing the exact same thing with the season 3.5 comics.  So he could just end this season with Oliver and Felicity in a good place, and then, repeating the same formula as this season, he'll put all of the stuff that we want to see on the show into the comics again.    

I'm buying the comics because I want him to know that I'm interested in the storyline. I resent it like crazy that it's not on my screen, but I want him to know I want it.

 

However, I see the attraction of putting the Team Arrow stuff in the comics, especially the shippy stuff, and using the show more about superheroes, and not turning off the comic book fanboys at places like Green Arrow TV. The problem is that when they broke up O/D/F, backburnered Diggle and made Felicity a supporting character in Ray's story, they took the heart out of the show.

 

Oh lord. Once Upon A Time is such an interesting show to look at, from a social media stand point. Its basically the perfect example of show runners having a favorite character, only listening to fans of that character, and changing the entire show to allow their pet character to be the star. Its a never ending cycle of a small circle of Twitter fans and the show runners, constantly high fiving each other over their awful story, while the rest of the world rip's out their hair in frustration.

It bit them in the end though.  Season 2 was a huge mess of Poor Regina, criticism rose and numbers dropped.

 

 

That's kind of ironic. Ray saying Felicity's feelings cloud her judgment of Oliver. Our Olicity feels cloud our judgment of Ray.

There's a reason MG loves Ray so much.  They're separated at birth.

 

He's also said that Felicity and Ray are the only characters who talk like the EPs do, and he's always talking about how cool Ray's suit is.  I think if he were any character on the show, he'd be Ray.

 

The interviews from the Paley above:

 

Colton Haynes said no one is dying, it's just that an actress was crying so much that caused the sad tweets.  Should we believe him?  MG said someone dies in 3x19. Should we believe him?

 

KC:  Being the first woman superhero who is on television right now

I guess she doesn't want Agents of SHIELD then.  And Sara and Nyssa don't count.  She really is bad at interviews.

[Menrva]

QUOTE

KC:  Being the first woman superhero who is on television right now

 

I guess she doesn't want Agents of SHIELD then.  And Sara and Nyssa don't count.  She really is bad at interviews.

KC needs Cyrano de Bergerac. Like now.

If you think I am the bestest woman superhero on TV, check this box. 

[NoWayOut]

Wow, using good Olicity moments in what are basically flashbacks to sell Arrow 2.5 while utterly screwing them over in the present. He expects me, as a fan, to be happy with this? Not only that but one of the main reasons I'm so invested in O/F is because Stephen and Emily play off of each other so well and make me feel for Oliver and Felicity. It's nearly impossible to translate that chemistry back into the comics thus I find myself struggling to get invested in comics!Olicity even though it's considered show canon.

[calliope1975]

KC did say "right now" so that discounts Sara, and Nyssa's not what I would really call a superhero, but Mockingbird showed up on SHIELD last year and Bobbi would wipe the floor with this BC so I have nothing there. Would I consider May a superhero? I think yes, yes I would. 

Edited March 28, 2015 by calliope1975

[catrox14]

Wait. Did Stephen and Kristin date?

[manbearpig]

Agents of Shield is putting Arrow to shame this season, but it's not exactly a huge hit so it's not surprising that KC forgot about it, to be honest.

[catrox14]

 

QUOTE

    KC:  Being the first woman superhero who is on television right now

    

    I guess she doesn't want Agents of SHIELD then.  And Sara and Nyssa don't count.  She really is bad at interviews.

 

Uh. How can she be first right now? That literally makes no sense.  There is no such thing 'as first right now'.  There is only one first and the first  woman superhero on TV IIRC that was Wonder Woman in the 70s.  But she is certainly not the first. She's not even the first Black Canary.  Good grief. She needs Crash Davis ASAP

Edited March 28, 2015 by catrox14

[calliope1975]

Uh. How can she be first right now? That literally makes no sense.  

 

Yeah, I didn't catch the first right now. That doesn't make sense. Ah well, she's gotta promote her brand, I suppose.

[Morrigan2575]

Uh. How can she be first right now? That literally makes no sense. There is no such thing 'as first right now'. There is only one first and the first woman superhero on TV IIRC that was Wonder Woman in the 70s. But she is certainly not the first. She's not even the first Black Canary. Good grief. She needs Crash Davis ASAP

Oh good, Glad I'm not the only one. I ran that line through my head about 3 times.

I can't help but think of that line from "V for Vendetta" "I'm rubbish without a script".

Another, were going in a whole different direction, a total 360...LOL

Edited March 28, 2015 by Morrigan2575

[catrox14]

Agents of Shield is putting Arrow to shame this season, but it's not exactly a huge hit so it's not surprising that KC forgot about it, to be honest.

 

I don't think she forgot at all.  She is all about her role now that she is Black Canary. She wants it to be true.  I think she is spinning as hard as she can because she has too.