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Social Media and Behind the Scenes: AKA Everything Else Not "News and Media"

Zalyn

By Zalyn
in Arrow

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dtissagirl
dtissagirl

What bugs me is the implication that if you are not patient, you're watching it wrong. Naw, son. You don't get to tell me how I watch TV. I'm an actual pro at doing it.

WindofChange
WindofChange

Oh wow, Emily. I'm impressed because this is really brave and I'm really proud that she said this in such an eloquent way.

dtissagirl
dtissagirl

Ha. Reading those stage directions, and realizing how EBR went the opposite way [curious and skeptic rather than faint by hot guy] makes me understand 100% how fucking lost they were at that time, and

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SmallScreenDiva

SmallScreenDiva

(edited)

These highly competitive types crack my shit up.  Can't handle criticism or failure at all.  I envision a meltdown on facebook (followed by a deleting spree) if the Casey Jones role doesn't go over well with reviewers.  I remember when someone sent him Jennifer Crusie's critique of the Clock King episode, and he commented that it was "Poorly written and seemingly annoyed. Otherwise tremendous."  Crusie is a bestselling author, so I doubt it was "poorly written," but I don't actually care enough to go and check.  You can judge for yourself, if you like.

 

Jennifer Crusie is not only a bestselling author, but she also teaches writing. I've read her critique and there's nothing poorly written about it. If anything, it spelled out quite clearly how Arrow was going off the rails (Season 2 gets a lot of critical love, but for me -- and a lot of my friends -- 2x14 to 2x19 were just incredibly boring, with the show feeling like it was treading water until the finale. It happened again in S3 but since Diggle and Felicity weren't as marginalized as they were in S2, I didn't mind it as much). 

 

This is classic Stephen after he gets criticized. And Arrow was getting slammed during that time because this was right after the lunge from the previous ep, which went over like a lead balloon, judging from what I saw on the boards, Twitter and Tumblr. There was a lot of spinning and attempts at selling the O/S romance during the 3 weeks I think the show was on hiatus. (BTW, 2x14 was initially touted as an Emmy-worthy ep for KC with everybody talking for weeks beforehand about the dinner/hallway scene. Then suddenly it became a "Felicity-centric" episode. Thought that was amusing.)

Edited by SmallScreenDiva
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

So are the writers of Twilight and the 50 shades books.

So? People who write bestselling books have some idea of what stories sell since they're, you know, selling them. Cruise wrote well thought-out criticisms about the way the plots were being written and why they weren't working as well as they could. Presumably she knows something about plotting and engagement, even if you don't like what she's plotting and engaging people with.

Edited by apinknightmare
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I really don't believe that EL James knows jackshit about writing or sentence structure. It's really awful writing. I mean really awful as in nearly unreadable.

I don't think she knows a thing about writing, but I think it's difficult to argue that she knows how to keep her audience engaged. Those are two separate things. But this isn't about her, since she's not the author who wrote those blogs about Arrow. I just don't think Jennifer Crusie's opinion can be dismissed as badly written at all. She probably gave more thought about Arrow and its plotting than anyone on the writing staff ever did, haha.

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statsgirl

statsgirl

Keto Shimizu also wrote Broken Dolls, Blast Radius, Sara, The Climb (along with MG) as well as Suicide Squad and Suicidal Tendencies.  Other than The Climb, I'm not impressed by any of those (well maybe Suicide Squad).  Most of those are Laurel-heavy episodes.

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dtissagirl

dtissagirl

Yup. That's my very favorite moment in Stephen's professional mansplainer social media career: criticizing Jennifer Crusie's *writing*. I'm literally LOLing all over again, thanks guys!

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Morrigan2575

Morrigan2575

(edited)

So are the writers of Twilight and the 50 shades books.

Guess you missed the bit about Cruise also being a teacher? Simple Wikipedia search shows she has two Masters Degree in Professional Writing and Women's Literature; her second MA is in Fiction. Cruise is/was also a dissertation away from her PhD. She also taught English in HS and Undergrad College courses as well literature, college composition and creative writing courses and was part of the HS drama department.

I've never read one of her books but her analysis of both Arrow S2 and all of Leverage as well as general discussion of writing techniques were always well written and well thought out, IMO. Her blog is clearly based on her love of writing and teaching.

Edited by Morrigan2575
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catrox14

catrox14

I don't think she knows a thing about writing, but I think it's difficult to argue that she knows how to keep her audience engaged. Those are two separate things. But this isn't about her, since she's not the author who wrote those blogs about Arrow. I just don't think Jennifer Crusie's opinion can be dismissed as badly written at all. She probably gave more thought about Arrow and its plotting than anyone on the writing staff ever did, haha.

 

 

Well personally, I read that review and didn't think it was that well written. It had valid points from her opinion, but I didn't care for her writing style meaning Ms. Crusie. And no this isn't about EL James. and No EL James did not hold my attention but the point is more that saying the masses like something doesn't mean it's completely good.  But I'm not a writer so what do I know.....

 

I read it because I was trying to understand what the fuck the fuss was about and it was horrible. Reading a terrible book doesn't mean I enjoyed the book or that it held my attention. I was reading it for a reason

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Carrie Ann

Carrie Ann

(edited)

I really appreciated Crusie's Arrow coverage for awhile, and then I stopped reading it because she seemed to watch Arrow through the Olicity lens only, and wrote criticism of the show as though its main storyline was the love story between Oliver and Felicity. So her critiques seemed a little...skewed to me, because her approach was basically: how did this plot point advance the love story? If it didn't--or particularly if it hampered that story (Sara)--then it was a failure. That would have made more sense this season, because the O/F relationship really was tied to the central conflict/theme of the season. But Season 2? Not so much.

 

Anyway, even if I personally stopped appreciating her views on Arrow, it doesn't mean they were ever poorly written. But, like @-ing the subject when you're criticizing them, I don't understand why someone would post this to Stephen's FB page at all.

Edited by Carrie Ann
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romantic idiot

romantic idiot

Who the hell is Jennifer Cruise? Is she one of those romance author women? Because their critiques were not good. Ah, I see she stopped after mid Arrow 2, that's probably why I haven't seen it. 

 

How is "Tough shit" not rude?  And it's not "truthful" because it's not a statement of fact, it's a brushoff with a vulgarity.  

Maybe it's just that I don't find shit particularly salty, despite what the folks on Suits like to pretend? I would say it to my mum. Would you have preferred it if he'd said "that's the way the cookie crumbles"? They're basically the same sentiment, just that one is pithier. 

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Well personally, I read that review and didn't think it was that well written. It had valid points from her opinion, but I didn't care for her writing style meaning Ms. Crusie. And no this isn't about EL James. and No EL James did not hold my attention but the point is more that saying the masses like something doesn't mean it's completely good.  But I'm not a writer so what do I know.....

 

I read it because I was trying to understand what the fuck the fuss was about and it was horrible. Reading a terrible book doesn't mean I enjoyed the book or that it held my attention. I was reading it for a reason

 

It didn't hold your attention, but it held enough people's attention to make that woman a kajillion dollars, which was my point but is irrelevant to what we're talking about here. But you have your right to think Ms. Crusie's opinions weren't well written - I happened to enjoy reading them, even if I didn't always agree. Although I suspect that if Jennifer Crusie hadn't been writing about how she thought Arrow was slowly getting terrible, SA wouldn't have thought her opinion was badly written at all. 

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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

IMO I don't know what the big deal is considering this happened ages ago... but to put my two cents in, writing a book is much different than critiquing a TV show. Not only are they two different mediums, but also one can be a good writer of fiction but can be bad at critiquing. A lot of my colleagues are in the publishing biz, and they don't know how to write at all just like how a lot of the writers they work with suck at critiquing which is why they go to editors to critique their work before what they write is published. IDK why people gave (and apparently are sitll giving) Crusie's critiques any sort of importance. No one important (connected to the show) seemed to care about her opinion so it doesn't really matter?

Edited by wonderwall
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

(edited)

IDK why people gave (and apparently are sitll giving) Crusie's critiques any sort of importance. No one important (connected to the show) seemed to care about her opinion so it doesn't really matter?

 

The conversation isn't so much about Crusie's opinion as it is about SA's tendency to not deal with criticism well. Which is an offshoot of the conversation about his "tough shit" response to that person's tweet thinking that someone would be a perfect Casey Jones. Seems like most of the conversation about Crusie is regarding whether SA was right to dismiss her simply for criticizing the show.

Edited by apinknightmare
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wonderwall

wonderwall

(edited)

The conversation isn't so much about Crusie's opinion as it is about SA's tendency to not deal with criticism well. Which is an offshoot of the conversation about his "tough shit" response to that person's tweet thinking that someone would be a perfect Casey Jones. Seems like most of the conversation about Crusie is regarding whether SA was right to dismiss her simply for criticizing the show.

 

Thanks for the clarification :)

 

I mean, I personally didn't think her critiques were all that well thought out therefore not well written which is why I don't mind what SA said. Regardless, someone posted that article on his FB page... Why one would do that especially if the article isn't favorable is beyond me (it's sort of mean), so yeah... In the end it just depends on two things. If you yourself thought her critiques were badly written AND if he just read the whole article and dismissed it for being unfavorable or if he actually thought about her rationale then dismissed it as badly written... I think this is sort of a moot point because we'll never know. 

Edited by wonderwall
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BkWurm1

BkWurm1

I've never read one of her books but her analysis of both Arrow S2 and all of Leverage as well as general discussion of writing techniques were always well written and well thought out, IMO. Her blog is clearly based on her love of writing and teaching.

 

For the record, I have read many of her books and yeah, I'd call her an above average writer.  She winks and nods at the troupes and then usually skirts them in some manner.  A rather clever and funny writer.  As for her critiques, I only read one thing by her about Arrow and it was fabulous. 

 

IDK why people gave (and apparently are sitll giving) Crusie's critiques any sort of importance. No one important (connected to the show) seemed to care about her opinion so it doesn't really matter?

 

This is what I read and yeah, this is why she still seems to matter, IMO. 

 

http://www.arghink.com/2013/07/19/the-felicity-smoak-problem/

 

"The Problem of Felicity Smoak" remains one of the very best explanation for why she was a game changer on Arrow.  JC breaks down all the reasons why the audience reacted one way to Laurel and another to Felicity and it is the first thing I read that ever gave me true solid hope that the show runners might actually go there. 

 

I'm sure her later reviews leading up to her dropping the show were scathing, made worse since she'd genuinely loved the show and thought it wonderfully written until I believe halfway through the season.  (I guess I did also read her reason for dropping the show)  Season 2B was a rough section for a lot of us.  I know I wondered if there was any point in staying around.  Now I know just to dig in my heels and wait the crap out. 

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AyChihuahua

AyChihuahua

So are the writers of Twilight and the 50 shades books. 

Seriously, so because a couple of crappy writers had bestselling novels now it means nothing to have a bestselling novel?  I...don't even know how to respond to that.  

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wingster55

wingster55

Seriously, so because a couple of crappy writers had bestselling novels now it means nothing to have a bestselling novel?  I...don't even know how to respond to that.  

No, it means that just because a book is popular/earned a lot of money doesn't mean it's quality. I can apply this to a bunch of things that are massively popular. Like Bieber. 

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wingster55

wingster55

Someone strongly implied (if not outright said) that her being a best-selling author is proof that the review can't be poorly written. I don't think that's really an impossibility. 

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GreatAtBoats

GreatAtBoats

Except sales were brought into it by her defenders to try to prove that she had to know what she's talking about because she's a best-selling author. If y'all think her critiques of the show were well-written, then say so, but the fact that her romance/chick lit books are best-sellers says nothing about her ability to critique an action show. Or anything, including her own genre.

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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

Why is that heat lamp floating? What is directly behind their hands? Why am I asking these things?

Looks like she edited the head off of the person back there, which raises all kinds of questions. Did she ask to be digitally decapitated? Was she making a terrible face?

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

SA just did an #AskAmell on twitter (two of the tweets were unavailable to me)...

 

Fave part about being Casey Jones?
SA:  "The car. The action. The girl. The hocky stick. The knives."

 

His middle name?
SA: "Adam."

 

Now that Josh Donaldson has won, his next goal?
SA:  "Tough to say. Probably involves a squared circle."

 

If he even lifts?
SA:  "I don't. No."

 

What it was like hitting a home run in the Rogers Centre?
SA: "On a scale of 1-10, with 10 being pure joy, it was a 28."

 

What we can expect in Season 8 of Arrow?
SA: "Oliver limping."

 

If he were on a Supernatural ep, would he want to be a hunter or a demon?
SA:  "I'd be a vigilante.  I'll always be a vigilante."

 

If he had to choose between starring in a Terminator movie or a Die Hard movie?
SA: "Die Hard. Forever and always."

 

What Oliver would say to the character he played in TVD?
SA: "Dude?!?!  You shot Caroline in the head...

 

Any plans with what he's going to do when he reaches 1M followers on twitter?
SA: "I'm more interested in deleting my account once Facebook acquires it.

 

What his call sign would be if he were in Top Gun 2?
SA: "That's a great question. I have no idea."

 

Who would win if he and GG get into a fight?
SA: "We fought.  It was a tie."

 

Give us a spoiler from next season?
SA: "I think instead I'll give vague responses and let 'professional' news organizations report them as spoilers."

 

His fave part about living in NYC the past few months?
SA: "The food."

 

If he's going to any Blue Jays post season games when they make it?
SA: "If the Jays are in the playoffs, I'll be in the building."

Edited by tv echo
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Chaser

Chaser

Wow. Such great questions. 

 

I've realized that 140 characters may be a problem for SA. I think he goes for snarky, but comes across as kind of a jerk sometimes. He works better on Facebook. Hopefully, he will do more joint FB Q&A's this season (DR, EBR, WH, JB, PB).

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tv echo

tv echo

(edited)

Moving on...Stephen's supposed to have a panel at Nerd HQ on Friday. I also read that the Nerd HQ panels will stream live on IGN/Youtube (http://www.ign.com/articles/2015/07/01/sdcc-ign-to-stream-nerd-hqs-conversations-for-a-cause-from-comic-con).

 

SA's Nerd HQ panel has sold out!

 

A Bad Ass Women panel was just added to Nerd HQ's Conversations for a Cause on Friday, July 10, at 6:00 pm (right after SA's panel at 5:00 pm).  I wonder if anyone from Arrow will be on that panel?

 

http://www.thenerdmachine.com/nerd-hq/conversations-for-a-cause/

Edited by tv echo
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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

(edited)

Surely there's a difference between "Crusie is a bestselling author, so I doubt it was "poorly written," but I don't actually care enough to go and check.  You can judge for yourself, if you like"  AND Crusie is a bestselling author, so of course her review wasn't poorly written.  Right?!  I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but damn if I don't often have to scroll through pages upon pages of back and forth arguments, so I'd like to clarify.  Of course bestselling authors are capable of writing shit, BUT THIS WASN'T EVEN THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST!   My point was that SA seems incapable of handling criticism, and in the Crusie instance, I believe he called her review "poorly written" not because it actually was poorly written, but because he was upset about her negative evaluation of the episode.  Like I said, I'm moving on because I don't think anybody cares to read two more pages of back and forth over something so stupid, but I wanted to clarify because clearly there was some misunderstanding or something going on there, and it seemed as though my words were being twisted.     

Edited by SonofaBiscuit
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apinknightmare

apinknightmare

I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but damn if I don't often have to scroll through pages upon pages of back and forth arguments, so I'd like to clarify.  Of course bestselling authors are capable of writing shit, BUT THIS WASN'T EVEN THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST!   

 

I think I'm partially responsible for your argument getting twisted, with my comments about bestselling authors knowing a thing or two about reader engagement. It was a poor attempt at expressing that JC's critiques came from personal experiences with her writing, where were also not even the point of your original post. So, sorry about that, haha. 

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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)

I actually enjoy Levi's Conversations for a Cause panels more than the actual Comic Con ones. If was in San Diego I'd probably spend my money on those. 

 

I'm interested to see who is on the Badass Women panel. 

Edited by Sakura12
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romantic idiot

romantic idiot

(edited)

Xena, Buffy, Leslie Knope, Aeryn Sun and Agent Carter. Maybe Melinda May. If they are not there, I will call into question the legitimacy of the panel. 

Seriously, so because a couple of crappy writers had bestselling novels now it means nothing to have a bestselling novel? 

Pretty much :o) Well, okay, it probably means they have earned some money. 

Now that Josh Donaldson has won, his next goal?

SA:  "Tough to say. Probably involves a squared circle."

 

 

Give us a spoiler from next season?

SA: "I think instead I'll give vague responses and let 'professional' news organizations report them as spoilers."

Heh. Love his sense of humour. 

Surely there's a difference between "Crusie is a bestselling author, so I doubt it was "poorly written," but I don't actually care enough to go and check.  You can judge for yourself, if you like"  AND Crusie is a bestselling author, so of course her review wasn't poorly written.  Right?!  I know I'm beating a dead horse here, but damn if I don't often have to scroll through pages upon pages of back and forth arguments, so I'd like to clarify.  Of course bestselling authors are capable of writing shit, BUT THIS WASN'T EVEN THE POINT OF MY ORIGINAL POST!   My point was that SA seems incapable of handling criticism, and in the Crusie instance, I believe he called her review "poorly written" not because it actually was poorly written, but because he was upset about her negative evaluation of the episode.  Like I said, I'm moving on because I don't think anybody cares to read two more pages of back and forth over something so stupid, but I wanted to clarify because clearly there was some misunderstanding or something going on there, and it seemed as though my words were being twisted.     

 

I think it is the bolded part above that indicated that some of the belief that her reviews were well written was because she was a bestselling author. I, too, don't care enough to check, just saying...

 

ETA: I also believe Titanic and Slumdog MIllionaire winning Oscars means I don't have to take those seriously any more. 

Edited by romantic idiot
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Sakura12

Sakura12

(edited)
Xena, Buffy, Leslie Knope, Aeryn Sun and Agent Carter. Maybe Melinda May. If they are not there, I will call into question the legitimacy of the panel.

 

Well three out of your 6 choices will in San Diego for Comic Con. Claudia Black, Hayley Atwell and Ming-Na Wen. Then I throw in Tatiana Maslany, Eliza Taylor and Caity Lotz if they need another person. 

 

Last years panel had Yvonne Strahovski, Retta, Jennifer Morrison, Sophie Turner, Missy Peregrym, Ming-Na Wen. So he does get a variety of women which I like. 

Edited by Sakura12
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foreverevolving

foreverevolving

(edited)

 

 

ETA: I also believe Titanic and Slumdog MIllionaire winning Oscars means I don't have to take those seriously any more. 

 

Do people actually still consider Titanic is a masterpiece? I never understood what the appeal for that movie is - and i was smack dead in its audience target age.. it's 3 hours of boring - the only good things are the outfits, the set and the sex scene followed by the drawing scene, and the scene the old lady throws the neckless into the water.

Edited by foreverevolving
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Delphi

Delphi

Then in getting on topic, Stephen has posted several statuses and tweets. Filming for TMNT2 wrapped today, so. ..erm. "tough shit" indeed. Also on the twitter status people freaked because he only used three turtle emojis instead of four.

Also apparently, according to Emily, a cab driver shares a cologne fragrance with Colton.

Discuss.

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