S12.E06: Vegas Callbacks #2 / Top 20 Chosen

[luvthepros]

Hailee: YMMV, but I could see her as a relatively early exit

 

Reading the bios of the contestants, Hailee is the most cross trained of all. I'm excited to see how she competes in other genres.

[Andie1]

I honestly don't think it's fair that he could even enter another SYTYCD competition after winning one.

 

 

And yet Paul Karmiryan from Season 10 won the Armenia SYTYCD and that was okay.

Edited July 7, 2015 by Andie1

[marcee]

Re: Denys - I think the "outrage" (more staged for dramatic interest than anything else, in my opinion) is still quite valid because while there are many fans here who know him and his work as a ballroom dancer, the average American and/or teenybopper/20-something watching doesn't know him. That's the benefit of SYTYCD - national exposure to people who aren't necessarily up-to-date with the dance world. I recognize the names of these attractive dancers because of SYTYCD - and so do casting agents. So sure, while he may have a promising career in ballroom, he's giving up the opportunity to expand into substantially more than just ballroom: TV, movies, and national pop culture. That's giving up quite a lot of possibility in exchange for another year winning ballroom contests that only ballroom fans are aware of.

[Caelicola]

Re: Denys - I think the "outrage" (more staged for dramatic interest than anything else, in my opinion) is still quite valid because while there are many fans here who know him and his work as a ballroom dancer, the average American and/or teenybopper/20-something watching doesn't know him. That's the benefit of SYTYCD - national exposure to people who aren't necessarily up-to-date with the dance world. I recognize the names of these attractive dancers because of SYTYCD - and so do casting agents. So sure, while he may have a promising career in ballroom, he's giving up the opportunity to expand into substantially more than just ballroom: TV, movies, and national pop culture. That's giving up quite a lot of possibility in exchange for another year winning ballroom contests that only ballroom fans are aware of.

And yet, he decided to prioritize his ballroom career over a chance to get a tv career, maybe because getting that possible tv career wasn't his main motivation, or because it would have left his partner of eight years in the dust. Choices, man.

And if that pop culture career doesn't happen, he and Antonina have lost a hell of a lot of training and competition time, not to mention sponsors and rankings; not just another year winning ballroom contests, but possibly their ability to enter those contests at all in the future. I know Nigel likes to think that his show is the be all and end all of dance, but it really isn't, and choosing to remain known only to us ballroom fans isn't necessarily a less valid choice than trying other venues.

The point is, he wasn't making a decision just for himself; if both of them got in, they could have both tried for that pop culture career (that for ballroom dancers really only means becoming pros on DWTS or Strictly); if he, alone, got in, Antonina is left high and dry, without a partner for who knows how long and without the chance to go for that career option herself. That's eight years of partnership and hard work put aside on the off chance that something better might come along, and I honestly don't see it as a bargain.

 

Also, I'm not objecting at all to the audience's right to be outraged or shocked; I disagree with the judges acting like they were offering him this wonderful opportunity when they know how they've treated ballroom dancers and ballroom dancing in general this season. It's your redheaded stepchild, don't pretend that you love it just as much as your other non-ginger children (that, mind you, DON'T include tap and ballet, who are distant nephews they sometimes throw some candy at).

 

And now I think I have officially beaten this dead horse so much that it's just an unrecognizable lump of meat (and I also grossed myself out with this metaphor).

Edited July 7, 2015 by Caelicola

[pamplemousse]

I'm meh about Hailee as of right now. I watched her in that group self-choreo round and she was ok but nothing special. IMO she dances heavy and she reminds me of Kourtni Lind from Season 4 who Nigel loved and perved over but who America didn't give a hoot about. IMO season after season the show consistently casts some of the same types of dancers that end up failing to resonate with the audience. It's usually types of dancers that Nigel loves but America doesn't give a crap about and then we have to spend the rest of the season hearing Nigel whining about how America keeps getting it wrong when his pets repeatedly end up in the bottom and watch the show madly scramble to figure out ways to keep these types of dancers way past their expiration date.

 

Anyway, I hope that Hailee, Alexia, Kate, Marissa, and Derek end up proving me wrong. Because as of now and what I've seen so far, I'm not really sure why any of them made it into Team Stage.

 

It seemed like Paula and the show was trying to make it seem like Denys withdrawing was out of butthurt and churlishness over the fact that his pwecious girlfriend got cut. I think the reality is that since Denys and Antonina have a professional relationship as well as personal, he wasn't just thinking of himself but was also very concerned about her career and how him taking a year to do this would affect her professionally and even monetarily because if she doesn't have her regular male partner to dance with, how is she going to compete or perform and make money in the form of winning competitions and booking performances? And how is she going to train without her dance partner? So even though she didn't make it onto the show, if Denys had decided to continue, it could've basically meant a year off for her as well with none of the rewards/opportunities that being on the show would've presented.

[Jesse]

Other than some tricks, I don't see the big deal about Asaf.  He has some really good tricks, I won't deny that, but his transitions between them often left me cold.  And I love b-boys.  Maybe he just didn't click for me?

It's his face. Also body, but mostly the face. 

[calipiano81]

Why HAS ballroom dropped so out of favor on this show? There used to be SO many ballroom routines in the early seasons and quite a number of ballroom dancers who were made it far. Then, somewhere around Season 8, the ballroom routines began to dwindle (sometimes down to 1 a week, or in the case of last season's finale--none), and the ballroom dancers started to get cut early or struggled to stay on.

I love ballroom dancing, so I never agree with the reasons why it's not appealing...to the younger demographic or otherwise.

Edited July 8, 2015 by calipiano81

[Terrafamilia]

Mr. Beeble is particularly grateful for the discernible lack of the word "buck" this season.

 

If I am hearing it correctly, "squat" is this year's "buck". Sometimes I think the Académie Française has the right idea, but then I'm becoming an old fogey. :-)

[Watt]

I don't like Marissa,she just looks like all of the local dancers at my small town studio. Its so much fake, not enough feeling. I think Nigel or Mary or whoever calls it competition face. Like a cheerleader.

The blonde with the short hair is okay. I'm intrigued.

[luvthepros]

SPOILER ALERT.....if you want to know who the replacement is for the injured dancer, take a look at this Instagram photo..........

 

https://instagram.com/p/42U7SYvzb0/

[Pallida]

It's his face. Also body, but mostly the face. 

 

I'm not that enthralled by those on him either.  Good dancing is sexy, regardless of static features.

[Rick Kitchen]

I wonder if the lack of ballroom is the reason why Mary isn't on this season, or vice versa.

[1TrackMind]

I think Asaf was trying to elude back to what he said at his audition about traditional moves having become boring to him, and was maybe a bit insulted at the idea his moves would not be considered entertaining, and since Burim had JUST gone, he got stuck on 'headspins' making it sound a lot ( to me and the folks I watched with) like he was ragging on Burims style.

[Anothermi]

I wonder if the lack of ballroom is the reason why Mary isn't on this season, or vice versa.

Since Denys would know Mary from SYTYCD Canada, I was wondering if she was one of the people he was shown making a call to when his girlfriend/partner was cut? (he had 2 cell phones he was using in that clip) Denys strikes me as a man who knows his priorities and is level-headed (looks at all his options) when deciding how to go about pursuing them. 

 

Regardless whether he talked to Mary or not, I agree with those who think it was a good decision on his part to withdraw. He didn't go the pop-culture route after he won SYSYCD Canada either. His goals have always been ballroom dancing.  I tend to believe he didn't know how little ballroom there would be this season. 

[rollerblade]

I don't know what to make of Denys withdrawing. What if his girlfriend had made it to the Top 20, then gets eliminated after the first week? Will he drop out then? Because the 19-20th place usually don't go on tour. Unless Nigel really really really likes you.

 

 

Why HAS ballroom dropped so out of favor on this show? There used to be SO many ballroom routines in the early seasons and quite a number of ballroom dancers who were made it far. Then, somewhere around Season 8, the ballroom routines began to dwindle (sometimes down to 1 a week, or in the case of last season's finale--none), and the ballroom dancers started to get cut early or struggled to stay on.

I love ballroom dancing, so I never agree with the reasons why it's not appealing...to the younger demographic or otherwise.

 

Tango and Paso are usually pretty well-received. If danced well, they are as popular as any good hip-hop or contemporary dances on the show.

 

Cha-cha is always fun, depending on whether the dancers can keep up, or at least sell the dance.

 

Ditto Jive.

 

Quickstep. Seems as difficult, but not quite as dreadful as Disco routines. I loved Eliana & Ryan's QS. I want to be reincarnated as Eliana's legs.

 

The Rhumba routines are probably too contemporary-like. See Chehon & Tiffany's notRhumba.  I'm not a pro, but none of the dances I've seen even come close to the one I'm familiar with - Torvil & Dean's 1994 routine. (which I'm sure also has a lot of not Rhumba moves, but it's an ice dance routine)

 

Viennese Waltz. Another one that can get too flail-y, too lift-y, and too much contemporary elements. (Ricky & Valeria's for example - the segment from 0:28-0:41 was very pretty and waltzy, and then for some reason the choreographer turned it into a contemporary dance, what the hell.) The last VW I like was Jakob & Mollee's.... six seasons ago!

 

Foxtrot is too boring for this show.

Edited July 8, 2015 by rollerblade

[WhineandCheez]

SPOILER ALERT.....if you want to know who the replacement is for the injured dancer, take a look at this Instagram photo..........

https://instagram.com/p/42U7SYvzb0/

 

I have a feeling that photo is violating something in their contract.  Anyway, my reaction is

I'M PLOTZING,  LET THE FUN BEGIN!!

Edited July 8, 2015 by WhineandCheez

[Jesse]

If I am hearing it correctly, "squat" is this year's "buck". Sometimes I think the Académie Française has the right idea, but then I'm becoming an old fogey. :-)

I'm pretty sure it's "squad."

[marcee]

I'm pretty sure it's "squad."

It is. I watch with CC on and Twitch is constantly yelling "Squad" at people and occasionally "Street Squad".

 

PS Re Denys - I'm not disagreeing that he made the right choice for himself, just that I could understand the "outrage".

[paramitch]

I have to admit, I'm not as big a Denys fan at all here. I loved his dancing but when he pulled out, while yes, Nigel was his usual assy self, the fact is, they had designated Denys (for good or ill) as the token ballroom guy. Which is a travesty, sure (I'm a huge fan of ballroom and believe me, I don't support this season's total abandonment of it). I love ballroom and the best ballroom routines are just lovely and magical, and I'd miss them if they left the show completely -- I'm still not sold on this season's format. I even admit it: I'm gonna miss Mary. Because the woman has a voice like a pig-caller but she knows her shit, and she's willing to call people out on technique, which I love.

 

But regardess, this means I do understand and even agree with Nigel to a degree (that noise you hear is the crack of the ice as hell freezes over) -- Denys proceeded on the pretty clear unspoken agreement that he was available and trying out for a spot in the Top 20. In the final day of eliminations they got rid of a few really wonderful ballroom guys -- specifically because they decided that DENYS would fill that role. 

 

Which means that for me to have sympathy for Denys and his whole "Oh no I'll lose a season!" situation? He should have quit the moment his partner was eliminated. As it was, the situation made him look pissy and like a bad sport.  And then he waited all the way to acceptance to the Top 20 (WHY? Ego?) -- and then quit.

 

How did this help the other ballroom guys -- specifically, the one who would have walked that mile instead of him? It didn't. Instead, he helped to ensure that there would be even LESS ballroom this season than there already was. And I'm sorry he lost his partner but they should have prepared for that possibility. Instead, he just came off as arrogant and petulant that his partner didn't make it all the way too. But to echo other posters -- would he have quit if she only made it to Top 18? Etc.? I don't care that he won SYTYCD or participated before -- I adored Paul last season (and his gorgeous and underappreciated partnership with Mackenzie). All I wanted was to judge Denys for myself and see him dance.

 

I feel really bad for the other ballroomers, because I liked the other two guys far more (the blond one was superb), and would have been happy to see one make the Top 20. I respect Denys's busy season but there's an easy answer for missing that:  Don't try out for SYTYCD. The show has nothing to apologize for -- it offered him a spot on a show that could have had huge PR impact for him. It was his own decision to try out. The show came through. Denys did not.

 

Meanwhile, I was happy with the Top 20 -- my picks right now are Yaya, Virgil, Jim, Alexia, Alain, Gaby, Burim, Yorelis and Moises. We'll see how it goes.

On a shallow note, I already hated Marissa due to her horrible fish-floppy orgasm-flailings as she pandered to Nigel's lowest common denominator (IN HIS PANTS), but she also is a dead ringer for Kristen Lindsey, that vet who ALLEGEDLY (and bragged about it) shot a cat in the head with an arrow recently in Brenham, Texas, so no, I cannot vote for her or her many creative orgasm faces. I know it's stupid but that's what makes it art.

(Pamplemousse, Hailee TOTALLY reminds me of Kourtni! I actually liked her in her season, but she did dance "heavy" and the only thing I ended up liking was her very first routine, the "Tainted Love" piece.) I think Hailee is going to have a tough time connecting with voters, but we'll see. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by paramitch

[Zuleikha]

I loved his dancing but when he pulled out, while yes, Nigel was his usual assy self, the fact is, they had designated Denys (for good or ill) as the token ballroom guy.

That's on the show, though. Denys did not make them place all their eggs in his basket. There have been multiple seasons where injury or contract issues have caused someone who was meant to go through Top 20 to not go through, leading to a replacement. Nigel et al know that they can't assume a dancer they intend for Top 20 will be able to make it on the show, and they had to understand that when they cut Antonina, they would make the choice harder for Denys than it otherwise would be. They should have had the foresight to keep one of their other excellent ballroom choices in play until they knew what Denys was going to do.

 

I also suspect Denys wrestled with the decision for a bit. I'm sure the change in Vegas left him confused, and he had to be trying to figure out what it meant about his ability to represent ballroom on the show. The ballroom dancers have always been at a structural disadvantage due to having to dance for their lives with solos instead of being able to use a partner to show their real skills. I wouldn't be surprised if he was also picking up on dislike from Travis because Travis is a huge a-hole about Ballroom. He sucks at it, so he doesn't respect it.

 

I don't know what the show is doing with jettisoning Standard/Smooth ballroom. The contemporary dancers can fake waltzes and foxtrots okay. They are typically a disaster at everything else when they don't have a Dancesport partner except for paso doble because it's so solo. There have been well received and great dances of pretty much every type of Dancesport category when there has been at least one Dancesport specialist performing. But I do not look forward to a season of non-Dancesport dancers fumbling their way through Latin until top 10 (when presumably the All Stars come into play, but I guess who knows under this format).

 

I am ecstatic about the number of female hip hop dancers on the show. Amazing how suddenly with tWitch's input and this format, the show can find so many of these previously elusive quality female hip hop dancers.

[scowl]

Foxtrot is too boring for this show.

 

No problem. Foxtrot on this show would be a few seconds of Foxtrot, then random moves unrelated to Foxtrot.

[annoyingone]

Have they said what the format is? Are they doing couples from the same team? Or couples at all?

[Caelicola]

(...) the fact is, they had designated Denys (for good or ill) as the token ballroom guy. (...)

 

How did this help the other ballroom guys -- specifically, the one who would have walked that mile instead of him? It didn't. Instead, he helped to ensure that there would be even LESS ballroom this season than there already was. (...)

 

I feel really bad for the other ballroomers, because I liked the other two guys far more (the blond one was superb), and would have been happy to see one make the Top 20.

But see, that is kinda the point; the other ballroom dancers were good, yeah, but they didn't make it to the end because they NEVER got to dance ballroom and had to dance lyrical contemporary, showy contemporary, contemporary in groups and jazzy contemporary. Denys made it through because he has had a lot of ballet and contemporary training, but if one watches only the Vegas episodes one comes away without even knowing just how really freaking good he and Antonina are at ballroom.

Not one single ballroom dancer was cut any slack at all; that isn't Denys's fault and it wasn't his decision. If TPTB want to convince me that they were set on having one ballroom guy they should have at least allowed any of them to dance for their lives and remind everyone that actually, they are really good dancers, and if they mess up the choreo it's because it's way out of their wheelhouse.

They wanted to have a ballroom dude? Then don't put through JUST ONE ballroom dude based on his strength in other genres only. Let Ryan Raffloer (the blond guy) dance for his life, let Antonina dance for hers, let Ekaterina Fedosova dance for hers.

What is the message the lone ballroom dancer gets, if not "we don't give a crap about how good you are in your own style, we only care about contemporary and jazz"? Denys didn't steal anyone's chance, because the truth is no ballroom dancer really had a chance at all if they couldn't proficiently pick up contemporary choreography.

There wasn't gonna be another ballroom guy to walk the green mile in his stead anyways, because the audition process made sure to weed out anyone who wasn't good at ballet-based genres. And not just faking them, but really doing them and keeping up with contemporary trained dancers. While those dancers could half-ass a routine, blame cramps and still get through without even having to do it again (and I like Edson, but come on, that was ridiculous).

I do agree that he probably shouldn't have tried out, but I have the feeling that he had no idea that ballroom was gonna be treated like the ugly stepsister. SYTYCD Canada revered ballroom (Jean Marc Genereux was the head judge), and even the US version has never been quite so blatant with the double standard. It's extremely frustrating for me, because they wanted to have their cake and eat it too, have one -ONE- spot for ballroom not in the top 20, which I could live with, but in the entire last stage of auditions and then blame the guy who turns it down for the fact that they didn't put anyone else through. You really want a ballroom dancer? You had a few ballroom dancers; the next time don't cut all of them, that's the best way to ensure you get at least one.

 

And with this, I swear, I will stop brutalizing this poor horse's carcass.

And change the subject!

 

I am ecstatic about the number of female hip hop dancers on the show. Amazing how suddenly with tWitch's input and this format, the show can find so many of these previously elusive quality female hip hop dancers.

 

Me too!! That (and ballet Jim) is the only reason I'll stick it out and watch this season anyway, because I'm sooooo tired of the contempolyrical they sell as the greatest choreographies since Sliced Bread (© Nigel Lythgoe), and of Travis in particular, who I find more and more annoying the more I see him. Bring on the hip hop girls and the ballet guys!

Edited July 8, 2015 by Caelicola

[OakGoblinFly]

SPOILER ALERT.....if you want to know who the replacement is for the injured dancer, take a look at this Instagram photo..........

 

https://instagram.com/p/42U7SYvzb0/

 

 

I hope that's not true ....... don't like that decision. At.  All.

[pamplemousse]

I seriously doubt Nigel when he lamented that Denys screwed it up for the other ballroom boys. Nigel seemed to have been implying that had they known sooner that Denys was going to withdraw, another ballroom guy was going to get to Green Mile. What a load of disingenuous crap meant to cloud the issue and paint Denys as the bad guy. The only reason Denys made it to Green Mile was because he was way better at contemp/jazz/Broadway than the other ballroom boys, not to mention probably better than some of the other stage guys who got cut. He made it despite being a ballroom dancer, not because of it. So am I to believe that Nigel and the show had a ballroom specialist quota they wanted to fill? Their utter disregard for ballroom would indicate otherwise. If the show really cared about having at least one ballroom specialist on the show then how come it gave all the ballroom people no benefit of the doubt at all -- they were kicked off one after the other, no chances to dance for their lives, no chance to dance in their genre, just see ya and don't let the door hit your ass as you cha cha your way out because we certainly don't have time for your specialty on the show or during Vegas week.

 

And I don't believe Denys told them right there on Green Mile, that seemed so manufactured to create drama and so that Nigel could make an example of him, like look at this arrogant, ungrateful ballroom dancer. Denys probably informed someone on the show earlier, since the judges were throwing him leading questions, seemed to me like they -- or at least Nigel -- already knew and were pissed so they wanted to enact that farce to humble and shame Denys. Which is also a load of crap because dancers have pulled out before. I remember some girl named Paula who made top 20 for IIRC S3 and pulled out because she got a job back up dancing on a tour or booked a national tv commercial. How come they didn't drag her on national tv and shame her for withdrawing from what they act like is an honor more prestigious than winning the Pulitzer for her vile mercenary reason?

 

ETA: Caelicola, we're sharing a brain, apparently. You just explain and express our brain's thoughts better.

(I don't like Edson, though. He's gorgeous to look at, but I don't think he is anywhere near good enough to be in the top 20. His acting might be better than his dancing, though, but it's not that good either. And it is total crap that he got a pass into the next round, didn't even have to dance for his life, after his cramp. Not to be an asshole, but I guess I am because he totally looked like he faked a cramp because he was stinking up the joint during the Broadway routine, plus he was dancing right by Denys who was doing it way better than him. I've seen some excuses about how he had cramps before he started dancing the Broadway routine and that was why he didn't do it well. IDK about that, it just looked to me like all his weaknesses got put on full display and he was mortified, especially next to a ballroom dancer who was killing it, so he had another attack of the cramps. He's full of excuses, but what's the excuse for giving him a free pass to the next round?)

Edited July 8, 2015 by pamplemousse

[Anothermi]

Paramich, I get your POV re: Denys decision possibly shutting out other ballroom dancers. Hell, Nigel even said as much. But this show is heavily edited. We know that we don't see things in chronological order. (Cat has a bandaged arm interviewing one hopeful and not when interviewing the next one?) A few years back one of the female dancers dropped out near the end of Vegas week because she booked a gig dancing on a music video of a well known artist. She spoke to the producers about it right away, but they made her stay and do a filmed session where she "announced" her decision to the judging panel. They made her look like a selfish ass. (Editing & scripted questions from the judges.) She posted what really happened on facebook and the impression the show created about her was based on the story they wanted to tell, not the reality. 

 

So, it is well within the realm of possibility that Denys didn't wait until the last minute to tell them. That he was required by the contract they sign to meet his final obligation to them and participate in the Green Mile section of the show. That allows them to voice over and cut and edit to their hearts content and we form opinions on what they give us to see. 

 

Caelicola, above, succinctly expressed another point - that there was no plan to have any of the other ballroom dancers make the top 20. 

 

I don't know what actually happened and will probably never know because I think Denys is too much of a professional to post any rebuttal to his portrayal. It's even kind of funny that I'm bothering to defend him because he was far from my favourite dancer on the SYTCD Canada season he won. 

 

(/my 2 cents)

Edited July 8, 2015 by Anothermi

[Caelicola]

Paramich, I get your POV re: Denys decision possibly shutting out other ballroom dancers. Hell, Nigel even said as much. But this show is heavily edited. We know that we don't see things in chronological order. (Cat has a bandaged arm interviewing one hopeful and not when interviewing the next one?) A few years back one of the female dancers dropped out near the end of Vegas week because she booked a gig dancing on a music video of a well known artist. She spoke to the producers about it right away, but they made her stay and do a filmed session where she "announced" her decision to the judging panel. They made her look like a selfish ass. (Editing & scripted questions from the judges.) She posted what really happened on facebook and the impression the show created about her was based on the story they wanted to tell, not the reality. 

 

I don't know if I'm thinking of the same dancer (the gorgeous Ida Saki?) but if I remember it right, she actually was invited to dance for the POTUS, so not really someone you turn down for Nigel, no matter how inflated his sense of his own importance is. I remember being livid about the way they treated her.

And funnily enough, Pamplemousse, I remember Paula as well, and I think her spot was given to...ballroom dancer Ashleigh Di Lello, back in the days when more than one ballroom dancer was allowed. Also, I always felt I had a brain twin somewhere, nice to finally meet you! ...now we only have to find out which one is the evil one...

 

 

Caelicola, above, succinctly expressed another point - that there was no plan to have any of the other ballroom dancers make the top 20.

And this marks the first time anyone has ever called me succinct, and it's making me blush. General consensus in my life is that I'm more on the verbose, sometimes incoherently so, side.

Edited July 8, 2015 by Caelicola

[Mason]

Let's not forget this show is edited, and a lot of it was taped many months ago. For instance, if the judges were so impressed with Denys, why was he not showcased during the auditions? It (presumably with Antoninia) would have been remarkable. I'm also willing to bet that the show still hadn't figured out exactly what the format would be when he auditioned, so whether or how much ballroom was apt to be the case wouldn't have been clear right away. If you go back and look at the footage where Antoninia's been cut and he's thinking out loud, it's clearly been edited to make it sound like he's considering leaving for her (as a girlfriend). I am also willing to believe that when he told Cat, prior to the Green Mile, that he felt okay, he wasn't expecting the reaction he got, suggesting he had told the producers well in advance but they wanted him to go through the motions anyway.

 

The other thing is, a fair bit of time elapsed between audition and Vegas. Denys & Antonina were heavily involved with the touring Dancing Pros (with various DWTS and SYTYCD dancers). Who knows what other opportunities have come up that would involve them both?

 

If Antonina had made it to Top 20, it would have been worth the risk for Denys to see how far he could go. When she didn't, it wasn't.

 

I'm sure Denys got a lot of advice (and insider info) from Mary, Jean-Marc, and a host of others. He has a lot of friends and admirers and will certainly outlive all the haters.  

Edited July 8, 2015 by Mason

[rollerblade]

Yea, I don't think Denys' decision screwed over other ballroom guys, even if I'm skeptical about his reason for quitting. Those other guys aren't good enough to pass choreography regardless.

 

The reason why there's only -one- ballroom person this year is because of the "street quota". In a normal season, they woudn't have TEN hip-hop/bboy/animator/krump/whatever dancers combined. Ever. Heck, there wouldn't be 10 contemporary dancers either (unless you count jazz as contemporary). This year's format ruined the balance.

 

Season 5 was contemporary-heavy: 9 of them, 12 if you include the jazz people. But, there were *TONS* of ballroom routines in S5. So yes, it can be done, but seems like the golden days are over.  Brandon was so incredible in ballroom I forgot he's contemporary lol.

 

(^ by it, I meant featuring many ballrooms on the show despite only having 4 ballroom dancers.)

[realdancemom]

I also believe that no other ballroom dancer would have made Top 20.  The Vegas stage choreography rounds didn't have a ballroom round.  Of course, ballroom people are not going to look as good doing the Vegas choreography rounds as jazz/contemporary dancers.  Tap and ballet dancers were also at a disadvantage.  Ballet studios/companies might teach contemporary ballet but they usually don't teach Broadway or jazz.  The street tap guy and if there were any street salsa people would have also been at a disadvantage in the street choreography rounds.  From the very first audition thread, I was worried this might happen.  I also mentioned that this format was stupid because now they are going to do all the styles and there could be major train wrecks.

 

While Denys looked great in the Broadway round, I thought he didn't look as good as others in the contemporary and jazz rounds.  He was decent because of his ballet training.  Brandon is usually really good with jazz but he didn't dance for two years.  He was an amazing performer before he left on his mission.  But I could see he was rusty during the Broadway and jazz rounds.  I wouldn't worry about any of the ballroom dancers.  There are so many ballroom tours right now.  SYTYCD doesn't appreciate them.  They let go of Mary and I think I read somewhere that it is because the show is not focusing on ballroom anymore.  They never acknowledge Ryan when he's an All-Star and they barely acknowledge Benji and he was the Season 2 champ.

[pamplemousse]

I know some people are okay with no ballroom dancers in the top 20 and no ballroom period on the show (if it comes to that), but I'm bummed about it. Ballroom used to be a benchmark for whether a dancer was good enough to go far in the competition. And it was entertaining to see the contestants stress about it (I guess, Caelicola, that my enjoyment of that would make me the evil brain twin). It was entertaining to see a non-ballroom dancer do decently well for being a non-ballroom dancer -- those have produced some memorable moments in the show's run -- and sometimes it was even more fun to see contestants I didn't buy the hype about being exposed for their true limited colors by ballroom (and hip hop). But maybe it's all for the best, STYCD ballroom has basically turned into some kind of quasi-contemporary/cabaret/who knows what aberration and hip hop has become ~lyrical hip hop~.

[realdancemom]

I also agree that if a chosen one like Melanie from Season 8 gets ballroom, then they give a waltz that is basically a contemporary routine with lifts.  Otherwise, they get a quickstep like Serge and Carly on the same week that Jessica gets a touching contemporary routine.  Same thing with hip-hop, chosen ones get a lyrical hip-hop from NappyTabs with a story   There is definitely too much contemporary or styles that are made to look like contemporary in this show. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by realdancemom

[emmapants]

SPOILER ALERT.....if you want to know who the replacement is for the injured dancer, take a look at this Instagram photo..........

 

https://instagram.com/p/42U7SYvzb0/

 

I was looking at the website and I think that 

JJ Rabone

is the injured dancer because 

she doesn't have an intro video like everyone else.

I'm super bummed by this, by the way. One of my favorites. As to the replacement, 

ehhhhh. Asaf is fun and all, but he really did have a hard time with the choreography. I would hope that he would spend the next year getting better, and come back for season 13. But if he is replacing JJ, that does balance out the slight gender imbalance they currently have with 6 female street dancers and only 4 male.

I won't beat a dead horse about the Denys stuff, but he should have made his decision sooner. There could have been a dancer cut in an earlier round who may have been able to pull it out, but was sent home instead of him.

 

I definitely think as it stands, the Street team is more interesting than the Stage team right now, with the exceptions of Gaby Diaz and the ballet boys. However, I do think it's funny that people are complaining that the stage choreographed rounds in Vegas were Contemporary, Broadway, Jazz, when effectively the Street rounds were Hip Hop, Hip Hop, Hip Hop. Granted, very different styles of hip hop, and we should have a better distinction, but still. My jury is still out on this whole Stage vs Street setup right now, anyway.

 

I wasn't sad about Standing O getting cut, only because I truly didn't feel like it did have anything to do with her size. Her energy had gone down during Vegas week, and she clearly wasn't bringing it in the choreography rounds as well as some of the other girls. I hope she trains up and comes back.

Edited July 8, 2015 by emmapants

[Morgan of Hed]

From Travis' blog:

 

 

I kind of saw it coming that Denys would leave the competition. I knew before he went to tell the judges, which is why my reaction on camera was kind of like, “Well, I wish you the best.” We were trying to keep ballroom dancers on the show. His point of view, I guess, was to be with Antonina, but he worded it like we’re not doing as much ballroom, and we are. You still have to do tango and salsa and all of the ballroom styles — you just don’t have to do ballroom in Vegas. If he wanted to leave, that’s great. Please exit the competition and open up a spot. I’m so happy for the person who made it in his place, because he wanted to be there so badly.

 

and:

 

With Asaf, my thing is that you have to be able to have rhythm and pick up the steps, because I’d be so nervous, if I were a female dancer on this show, to be put into the arms of someone like Asaf. You don’t know if they’ll be there to catch you. They’re really pushing for Team Street to be able to  pick up choreography, because we can’t put someone in danger on this show. There’s a responsibility you have as a dancer and a partner — it’s not So You Think You Have an Amazing Solo. There’s a lot more to it. And I’m gonna be completely honest: I was really upset they let go of Standing O. I really thought she was a contender and she didn’t take a wrong turn anywhere in my book. As a spectator watching at home, I was rooting for her. I still think Team Street’s very strong but, hey, one less on my radar.

and:

 

Behind the scenes, one of my favorite dancers ever right now — her name is Alyssa Allen, and they were showing a lot of her, but then they never got around to showing what happened. They offered her a spot, because she was definitely number one on everyone’s list, but she just got her acceptance into USC. They’re starting this amazing new dance program at USC, and William Forsythe, our huge European inspiration as a choreographer, is heading up the dance department. Alyssa asked me what she should do, and I wanted her on the show so badly — I could’ve had an awesome shot winning this show with her — but what’s more important was her college education. The amount of training she is going to get is incomparable. We’re happy that she made that decision, and once she’s out of college, I told her to call me up, because she’s got a job in two seconds. Those are the things you have to deal with as a dancer.

 

[Caelicola]

However, I do think it's funny that people are complaining that the stage choreographed rounds in Vegas were Contemporary, Broadway, Jazz, when effectively the Street rounds were Hip Hop, Hip Hop, Hip Hop. Granted, very different styles of hip hop, and we should have a better distinction, but still.

And a lot of breakers and freestylers got to dance for their lives (some more than once), while the same courtesy wasn't extended to ballroom dancers. It's also a limitation of grouping a lot of different artists under the "street" moniker, because freestyle by definition isn't coreographed, and it would be impossible to put together a round for every single different personal style represented.

Putting together a single ballroom round would have been far from impossible, on the other hand, especially if they keep insisting that the top 20 will have to do it on the show.

The issue I have isn't that there wasn't enough variety of styles in the stage category, but that there was one style completely ignored. Close off the auditions to ballroom dancers and have only contemporary/jazz dancers, and I'm fine with there being only contemporary/jazz rounds.

[Morgan of Hed]

From the point of view of the show, if they are serious about including ballroom as Travis said in his blog, then they should have had a ballroom round or two if only to evaluate partnering skills.  As it stands, I expect they are going to do something that looks like ballroom but is geared for a "trained dancer", ie contemporary. They will then praise their favourites to the heavens for their amazing ability to pick up ballroom in a short time.  If Denys had been there, he would have been forced to do a "ballroom" that is really contemporary in disguise.

[realdancemom]

From reading what Travis wrote above, I think SYTYCD hasn't made it clear what is going to be included in the show.  When Denys was talking to Nigel about the lack of ballroom, Nigel said that there will still be Latin so that means no Standard/Smooth.  Travis mentioned that you will still see Tango and salsa.  Tango is not a Latin dance.  Salsa isn't either but the show might consider it a Latin dance..

 

As for street choreography rounds, I did mention that it was a disadvantage for street tapper, salsa dancers, etc. since we just got different styles of hip-hop.

 

I also completely agree with Travis on his opinion of Asaf. 

Edited July 8, 2015 by realdancemom

[emmapants]

From the point of view of the show, if they are serious about including ballroom as Travis said in his blog, then they should have had a ballroom round or two if only to evaluate partnering skills.

But if they're only sticking to stage choreography for the Stage team and street choreography for the Street team, there's no Street equivalent of ballroom. It wouldn't be fair to throw partnering at one half of them during Vegas week and not the other half. I understand why they didn't have any ballroom, if they're sticking to this new format.

[Zuleikha]

Travis mentioned that you will still see Tango and salsa.

 

I suspect Travis means Argentine Tango and doesn't know enough to specify. Nigel loves Miriam and Leonardo's Argentine tango but actual Dancesport Tango has been getting rarer and rarer. If memory serves, it's also been a disaster for every couple that's tried it without a Dancesport-trained partner.

 

I call BS on this, though:

We were trying to keep ballroom dancers on the show.

If they were trying to keep ballroom dancers on the show, they wouldn't cut them in the jazz round without letting them do a Dance For Your Life. 

 

If this concept was going to be done, it should have been done as three teams. We'd have fewer contemporary/jazz dancers compared to a normal season, but I think that'd be a good thing. They could take one extra dancer and have 3 teams of 7 (since they don't care about having exact gender balance). Then they could do an initial 3 dancer cut (one from each team) but then let the top team have immunity from elimination and still do the one dancer each from the bottom two teams to mirror the current announced structure. 

[luvthepros]

Foxtrot is too boring for this show.

My favorite Foxtrot was performed by Danny Tidwell and Anya Garnis. I'm going to miss this dance genre on this show....

 

https://youtu.be/fnYeFcbjf9E

[Andie1]

My favorite Foxtrot was performed by Danny Tidwell and Anya Garnis. I'm going to miss this dance genre on this show....

 

https://youtu.be/fnYeFcbjf9E

Thank you for this.  Man I miss Danny such an amazing dancer! he's the one I watched on this piece. Anya yes, was good, but a typical latin dancer doing standard,there's always something a bit sharp when they dance ballroom, but Danny with the lyrical movement was heaven.  BTW Danny was treated like crap by Nigel and Co in his season  http://www.nytimes.com/2007/07/11/arts/dance/11tidw.html?_r=0It seems to be an on-going narrative   

[Morgan of Hed]

My favorite Foxtrot was performed by Danny Tidwell and Anya Garnis. I'm going to miss this dance genre on this show....

https://youtu.be/fnYeFcbjf9E

i think Anya could make most anyone look good in ballroom. Having a talent like Danny is just a bonus.

[Andie1]

 

We were trying to keep ballroom dancers on the show.

 

Yes so much BS, since Contemporary dancers think they can handle Ballroom with relative ease. When you don't have a ballroom expert to compare with, the genre disappears. Argentine Tango isn't Ballroom, latin ballroom dancers can work the spanish line, but Tango is a standard dance, not latin. 

[pamplemousse]

LOL sure, Travis, and I was born yesterday.

 

Danny and Anya's Viennese Waltz is one of my favorite SYTYCD performances of all time. ALL. TIME. Actually anything Danny and Anya did together pretty much qualifies as a favorite.

[Caelicola]

Good Lord, Danny Tidwell. One of the most exquisite dancers to ever pass through this show, and the antithesis to everything that annoys me about the contemporary they do on the show nowadays: flaily arms, frantic uncontrolled movement, hyperextension to the point of ugliness, mediocre musicality so you could put any solo on any music and the effect would be the same...everything Danny did was controlled, clean, necessary. Just a beautiful, beautiful dancer.

(I could talk about Anya for hours, but I feel like I've only talked about ballroom, and while it is my first and biggest love, I do love the other genres as well, I swear).

 

To veer back on topic, I have high hopes for Jim and Darion, that as ballet dancers they might possess a bit of that same cleanness and poise. Alex and Chehon did, so I'm crossing my fingers.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Caelicola

[luvthepros]

I have a feeling that photo is violating something in their contract.  Anyway, my reaction is

.........

From what I read, Edson posted the photo and deleted it right away. Of course, someone took a screen shot of the photo and posted it on another forum.

Edited July 9, 2015 by luvthepros

[calipiano81]

Foxtrot is too boring for this show.

Why would foxtrot be any more boring than, say, Broadway (not that I find Broadway boring at all)? It is smooth and elegant, uses similar, old-time Hollywood-type music, requires the dancers to show personality, and utilizes a lot of jazz elements.

Edited July 9, 2015 by calipiano81

[Morgan of Hed]

Why would foxtrot be any more boring than, say, Broadway? It is smooth and elegant, uses similar, old-time Hollywood-type music, requires the dancers to show personality, and utilizes a lot of jazz elements.

Broadway is my second-least favourite (after Russian folk) of all the styles they showcase on SYTYCD.  I find it usually ultra-cheezy and lame.  Probably because it's usually choreo by Diorio. 

[Cuatro1234]

RE:  Kate as fodder....I read online that she is part of Travis's company, Shaping Sound.  So I doubt she's fodder.  And this is not a conflict of interest?  I've read those disclaimers that the dance world is small, people know each other, but this seems a little TOO close.  He'll be choreographing, and he knows her well, so even if he's not judging, it's odd to me.

 

RE:  Denys's bowing out in consideration of not having his partner sit around for a year while he's on the show and on tour....wasn't this a consideration when he danced on the Canadian show? 

 

RE:  Travis's blog post about Alyssa Allen's dropping out to attend USC....she couldn't defer for a year?

 

RE:  PhD's spoiler supposition about the injured dancer, other sites point to a member of the opposite gender as the injured party. 

Alain "Hurrikane" is the dancer said to be injured, according to Idol Forums.

 

And lastly, Zuleikha, I think the 3-team idea is genius :)

Edited July 9, 2015 by Cuatro1234

[luvthepros]

..........Which means that for me to have sympathy for Denys and his whole "Oh no I'll lose a season!" situation? He should have quit the moment his partner was eliminated. As it was, the situation made him look pissy and like a bad sport.  And then he waited all the way to acceptance to the Top 20 (WHY? Ego?) -- and then quit...............

 

I thought it has already been established that the Top 20 were notified by a phone call......not the actual green mile that was aired for us to see. What we were shown as "moving on to the next round" was probably the cuts before "green mile".... maybe Top 30. So, in actuality, Denys really didn't wait to withdraw at green mile but before that point. It is amazing how the show is edited, isn't it?