shapeshifter July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 The plot seems to get more convoluted with each week. How will they ever wrap this up in two episodes? Last season was much more structured.It feels like my barrel-shaped Rubic's cube right before the last snap into place--but I don't think we're going to get that big of a payoff--especially since even last season, which I did love, had a just so-so finale. 2 Link to comment
miss carousel July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 The wrap up will be loose at best. James Frain was 24 in 1992 which would make him a little old to be the jewelers kid but they hired him for some reason presumably. He does seem to physically fit as Birdman. I wonder if they are going to do to Ray what they didn't do to Rust as the end, kill him off in a big display. Or maybe all three of them are going to be killed off. Can't dismiss Paul as a possible Birdman, might as well put all the cliches on the table. 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 The wrap up will be loose at best. James Frain was 24 in 1992 which would make him a little old to be the jewelers kid but they hired him for some reason presumably. He does seem to physically fit as Birdman. I wonder if they are going to do to Ray what they didn't do to Rust as the end, kill him off in a big display. Or maybe all three of them are going to be killed off. Can't dismiss Paul as a possible Birdman, might as well put all the cliches on the table. The opening song verses for the last few episodes have (and still did with this one) include the "I hid among you" (or something similar) showing Paul's face, so, yeah. 3 Link to comment
Jextella July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 (edited) It feels like my barrel-shaped Rubic's cube right before the last snap into place--but I don't think we're going to get that big of a payoff--especially since even last season, which I did love, had a just so-so finale. One would hope Nic P and team learned from the fiasco of an ending in Season 1. THat's what I'm banking on for Season 2. If he does it again, I'm out for Season 3. Edited July 27, 2015 by Jextella Link to comment
sharongogo July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Leonard and Laura - the kids from the jewel robbery are either the Chessani children or the 2 Hispanic drug dealers. Either way, I'm convinced the Cisco kid is actually a woman. The opening song verses for the last few episodes have (and still did with this one) include the "I hid among you" (or something similar) showing Paul's face, so, yeah. And in episode 6 in the cabin, Paul stays in the shadows while Ani is in the light. 3 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Leonard and Laura - the kids from the jewel robbery are either the Chessani children or the 2 Hispanic drug dealers. Either way, I'm convinced the Cisco kid is actually a woman. So Cisco Kid could be the Chessani daughter, right? By the way, is Cisco Kid just a snide remark from one of the main characters (was it Frank?), or did the character self identify his/herself by that name at some point? Link to comment
DEM July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 I thought Cisco Kid was Frank's nickname for the psycho Mexican squad's #2 guy. Is that wrong? Throwing my 2 pesos in that when I first watched I thought the car arsonist might be a woman. I haven't gone back to look again though. 3 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 I thought Cisco Kid was Frank's nickname for the psycho Mexican squad's #2 guy. Is that wrong? That sounds right. And since Cisco remained silent, that could be to not reveal a feminine voice. 1 Link to comment
sharongogo July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 I think the jewelry store kids are out for vengeance on the people who killed their parents -- and I think the LA cops did it during the riot knowing there would be too much confusion. Those cops then moved down to Vinci PD -- remember Ray's dad talking about the good old days in LA under Gates? And how it wasn't the same after the Rodney King riots? I'm not sure if they personally knew Caspere and had a problem with him or saw him as the connector between the corrupt Vinci cops and the powerful men they associate with - each helping the other to cover up their sins. But the first time the Cisco Kid shows up, she stays a couple extra seconds and looks at Frank like he's the devil -- that's personal. I'm just not sure what it's about. 1 Link to comment
DEM July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Cisco Kid, the fancily dressed #2, is named Gonzales and played by Robert Renderos. 1 Link to comment
jbrecken July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Maybe the jewelry store kids are Frank's wife, and Ray's wife's rapist. 1 Link to comment
sharongogo July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Maybe the jewelry store kids are Frank's wife, and Ray's wife's rapist. The heist was in '92 and the cop said the girl was around 4, making her about 27 now. I think Frank's wife is in her 30's. And Frank's wife doesn't look Hispanic. 1 Link to comment
sjohnson July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 The children are not good candidates for Birdman. Birdman has a thing about men who see something they shouldn't, or possibly for men who watch instead of doing anything about it. (Stan didn't stop Blake, Caspere didn't stop Mayor Jr.?) 2 Link to comment
LilaFowler July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 Have we ever seen Birdman's car again? You see it in the first episode when he/she is driving Caspere to the rest stop. It's maroon. 1 Link to comment
sharongogo July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 And I think The Birdman is a cop - so does Ray since he pointedly told Ani the rifle was full of buckshot, "like cops use" Have we ever seen Birdman's car again? You see it in the first episode when he/she is driving Caspere to the rest stop. It's maroon. Is that the car that the masked person set on fire? Link to comment
Cardie July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 The children are not good candidates for Birdman. Birdman has a thing about men who see something they shouldn't, or possibly for men who watch instead of doing anything about it. (Stan didn't stop Blake, Caspere didn't stop Mayor Jr.?) But sometimes killers project their own guilt outwards onto their victims. The children watched helplessly as their parents died. This at least is often the case on Criminal Minds. Here's a possible scenario for young Leonard now being Tony Chessani and also Birdman. In 1992 Frank hired Stan and another man (a dirty cop? Ray's dad?) to rob the jewelry store, using the riots as a cover. The blue diamonds were too rare for an ordinary fence but Caspere was known to handle such items. After paying Frank much less than they were worth, he kept them as an investment. He's already tight with the Chessani family and when the current mayor and his wife can't conceive (giving them a stake in the ubiquitous infertility theme), he suggests these tow orphaned tykes. Tony grows up and goes into the sextortion business with his dad's consigliere Caspere. At some point in their partnership he sees the blue diamonds and goes nuts to find out where Caspere got them. Stan is the only one Caspere can positively identify. Birdman takes his revenge on Caspere after getting the info and takes out Stan. He of course knows about the hard drive and needs to get possession to protect his day job. Chessanis pal around with lots of cops, so getting hold of a police riot gun wouldn't be hard. He doesn't know that Ray is working for Frank and may not yet know for sure Frank is implicated in the robbery. So they are alive for now. Only problem is that he doesn't slot into the faux-rapist scenario. 1 Link to comment
LilaFowler July 27, 2015 Share July 27, 2015 (edited) I think if we can figure out the why, we can figure out the who. Casper's place was ransacked. They were probably looking for the porn tape on the hard drive considering his computer was taken. They probably weren't looking for Frank's $5 million -- I think Catalyst and/or the Russians received that from Caspere but when he turned up dead, they pretended they hadn't. It seems unlikely that whoever Caspere was blackmailing with the hard drive (if he even was) would kill him before finding it -- they would torture it out of him first. The autopsy said that he was killed from a pelvic wound, and then his eyes were burned with acid. That doesn't strike me as torture. I think the person who killed Caspere and the person/people who ransacked his apartment are different and have different motives. I'm thinking that Caspere had been holding that hard drive over someone for awhile and somehow that person found out that he had been killed (prior to the cops finding him). They panic and search his apartment to find the hard drive before the cops do. He had been missing for two days. Catalyst guy knew about the hard drive, so it seems like he was probably on the tape himself. Otherwise, why would he care about finding it, enough to dangle parcels of the land in front of Frank? I don't think he was responsible for Caspere's death though. So who is Birdman? Caspere had Xanax in his system when he was killed, and the therapist said that he had a penchant for young women, if memory serves. The bullet to the groin seems like a personal statement, not a professional hit. I'm guessing Caspere messed around with the wrong young girl, and someone in her life exacted revenge. Edited July 27, 2015 by LilaFowler 1 Link to comment
Jextella July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 (edited) Just a thought....on last night's show, we hear McCandless tell Osip that Frank's arrangement was between Frank and Caspere. Do we know for sure there was a deal in the first place? All we really have is Frank saying there was one and now there is not. He's downsizing and going back in the thug business but that could be for show. I mean, even if he did put down 5 million and that was all the money he had, he'd still be broke until the corridor stuff got up and running - which could take years. Frank could be masterminding a bunch of stuff. Blake might not be double crossing Frank at all but rather being his eyes and ears to bigger and better things, bribery of the people at the party, finding the diamonds (killing Caspere could be his way of forcing the diamonds out of hiding so to speak). Edited July 28, 2015 by Jextella Link to comment
NurseGiGi July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm enjoying everyone's speculations much more than the actual show. Next season NP needs to come here for ideas. Edited July 28, 2015 by NurseGiGi 4 Link to comment
sharongogo July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 Theory: The Mexicans didn't kill Irina because she worked with the cops, they killed her because they didn't want her to ID who gave her Caspere's stuff to pawn to Frank. PS. It was Burriss. 2 Link to comment
Jextella July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 (edited) I'm enjoying everyone's speculations much more than the actual show. Next season NP needs to come here for ideas. Given that Nic P gave us a clue as to the killer in Season one with the sign in front of the school while the lawnmower man was mowing, the following two theories for the birdman's identity might make sense: Grillis (construction site guy); clue: unmissable sign outside his office saying something about "Notice! Danger Area"; additional: he's in pix with Clinton and the mayor and he has a b&w pic of a girl by the river in his office; fits the physique of the birdman Reporter Howser: clue: Ray shooshing the homeless woman; additional: fits with the sibling revenge story line - with the sister being any one of the many women in her late 20's on the show, e.g. scarred barmaid; Vera; heck, Paul's girlfriend! ... so many I can name them all. Either way, a police connection appears plausible given the type of weapon used (also: Ray's timing seemed quite coincidental as well. Would not be surprised if Ray is involved). Other theories from elsewhere: Blake is an undercover FBI agent. Blake is working undercover for Frank Ray commits suicide - but by dying in the line of fire ... to protect someone else; the recording device has conversations that will reveal all (but which may or may not be found by non-criminal elements). Edited July 28, 2015 by Jextella 1 Link to comment
paigow July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 Cisco Kid, the fancily dressed #2, is named Gonzales and played by Robert Renderos. Unless these guys are TV brothers, Gonzales is not "Cisco Kid". Gonzales is the talkative, hatless leader. "Cisco Kid" is silent and wears a hat. Is that the car that the masked person set on fire? Yes 1 Link to comment
Desperately Random July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 (edited) Cisco Kid, the fancily dressed #2, is named Gonzales and played by Robert Renderos. Unless these guys are TV brothers, Gonzales is not "Cisco Kid". Gonzales is the talkative, hatless leader. "Cisco Kid" is silent and wears a hat. Robert Renderos is indeed "Cisco Kid" . He is billed as "Gonzales #2. Benjamin Benitez is the talkative one and billed as Gonzales #1. Benjamin Benitez - http://www.imdb.com/name/nm0073170/?ref_=ttfc_fc_cl_t32 Robert Renderos - http://ia.media-imdb.com/images/M/MV5BMjAzMTY5OTY4OF5BMl5BanBnXkFtZTgwODk3ODM2MjE@._V1_SX640_SY720_.jpg Edited July 28, 2015 by Desperately Random 2 Link to comment
paigow July 28, 2015 Share July 28, 2015 (edited) Robert Renderos is indeed "Cisco Kid" . He is billed as "Gonzales #2. Benjamin Benitez is the talkative one and billed as Gonzales #1. Thanks. Maybe Stan's surname is Gonzales... Edited July 28, 2015 by paigow 2 Link to comment
Desperately Random July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 (edited) Thanks. Maybe Stan's surname is Gonzales... Love it! The Stan jokes never get old. I hope every season of True Detective has their own version of "Stan". Edited July 29, 2015 by Desperately Random 1 Link to comment
paigow July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 I hope every season of True Detective has their own version of "Stan". If season 3 is in: Dallas...Cowboy Stan New York... Yankee Stan Kabul...[ ] Link to comment
Jextella July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 (edited) I know this is stupid, but it just occurred to me. The birdman has struck twice now. Caspere's body was placed at the Catalyst Group's "adopt a highway" sign. Stan's body was placed in one of Frank's buildings. These were messages to Frank and Caspere. Further, since Caspere had Frank's money, killing Caspere hurts Frank. So, the question is, who stands to benefit by hurting Frank AND Catalyst Group? Seems Catalyst Group people could care less about Frank and they don't seem concerned much about Caspere's demise. The Russians wouldn't care anymore because Catalyst Group has let them buy into the corridor. The Mexicans wouldn't have had motive at the time. Who else is left who wants to thwart or seek revenge on Frank and The Catalyst Group? Edited July 29, 2015 by Jextella Link to comment
TudorQueen July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 Paul was brainwashed during his tour overseas, and now he commits disfiguring murders by night and investigates them by... other nights? He is... The Afghanistan Candidate! 5 Link to comment
Cardie July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 Stan has to figure into the crimes in some significant way or we wouldn't have this (admittedly amusing) drumbeat of references to him which the home visit raises to a whole new level. He has to be Chekhov's Stan. 4 Link to comment
Jextella July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 Stan has to figure into the crimes in some significant way or we wouldn't have this (admittedly amusing) drumbeat of references to him which the home visit raises to a whole new level. He has to be Chekhov's Stan. Stan is to Frank what Caspere is to Catalyst. ...whatever that is Link to comment
Cardie July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 Stan is to Frank what Caspere is to Catalyst. ...whatever that is It's more what Caspere is to Chessani, I think. Catalyst are the big bucks everyone is chasing but don't seem to have visible loyalists--perhaps Blake, undercover? 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter July 29, 2015 Share July 29, 2015 Paul was brainwashed during his tour overseas, and now he commits disfiguring murders by night and investigates them by... other nights? He is... The Afghanistan Candidate! You mean Afghani Stan? 4 Link to comment
paigow July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Vera is the True Detective...Who took the pictures that Vera mailed? It is impossible that she is the photographer based on orgy security procedures. Therefore, she had an accomplice - e.g. the recently dead female in the shed - that was compromised; consequently her sister's house was the only safe place for the evidence. Vera continued attending orgies to maintain her cover. Link to comment
Jextella July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 (edited) Vera is the True Detective...Who took the pictures that Vera mailed? It is impossible that she is the photographer based on orgy security procedures. Therefore, she had an accomplice - e.g. the recently dead female in the shed - that was compromised; consequently her sister's house was the only safe place for the evidence. Vera continued attending orgies to maintain her cover. With all we've learned in the last week or two, I'm leaning toward Vera's involvement. I think its a gang/group whatever of Hispanics seeking revenge on the higher ups who get to their position in life on the backs of Hispanics. Probably started with the two kids and the diamond theft. I'm new to Imgur so bear with me. http://i.imgur.com/totDXpc.jpg http://i.imgur.com/7EFPv1b.jpg The hair on the nape of the neck of birdman looks as though it is combed up, like it would look with a ponytail. Not down. It's not the clearest image so who knows, but it definately seems that way. It's more clear in Photoshop. THere are other little things, e.g. the video game the kids were playing when Ani and Partner served foreclosure papers on Vera's sister is called "Defend the Village", etc. I think she went undercover to get dirt on people and was working with the reporter. Edited July 31, 2015 by Jextella 1 Link to comment
paigow July 31, 2015 Share July 31, 2015 Frank's entire army fits into an SUV. His only logical play - when he learns what the audience already knows - is to corroborate the Railway corruption for federal immunity and grow organic pot in Colorado under a new identity. 4 Link to comment
LilaFowler August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 So, how do people see this ending? Frank won't be able to outrun the Russian mob in LA or Venezuela or wherever he plans to go. Ani and Ray are in the middle of a massive corruption ring and there seems to be no way out, or a way through. Resevoir Dogs 2.0? Link to comment
Cardie August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 If last season is any guide, improbable happy endings may be in store for all but poor Paul. The model for Vinci, Vernon, was finally cleaned out by the Feds. I see Frank and annoying wife on the beach in Venezuela with a little Frank on the way. At least he'll know better than to name the kid Stan. Ani and Ray go into witness protection. 2 Link to comment
paigow August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 Frank has to fake his own death at the heist. Did he keep Blake as a corpse proxy? Burris will find Velcoro via Woodrugh's phone and "bargain" for the contracts. 2 Link to comment
DarkRaichu August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 After Frank & crew magically takes care of the Russian mobs plus Vinci corruption ring, his wife shoots him from the back so she can reign as the new leader of the organization. Surprise, she was one of the high class hookers from those orgies employed by Caspere to "control" and/or misdirect Frank.. Ani and Ray go to Venezuela using tickets bought by Frank. Upon arrival, she leaves Ray to be the new madame / pimp of her own male prostitution ring.. Zombie!Stan moves to a different show on a different channel so he can be shot by the main characters and be remembered fondly afterwards 2 Link to comment
Cardie August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 Paul is alive. As this isn't a spoiler thread, I assume that's simply your intuition? Link to comment
magdalene August 3, 2015 Share August 3, 2015 Paul is alive. I wish that could be so. But I saw him bleed out. I am sure he is dead. Link to comment
paigow August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 Paul = Jon Snow ...If not, James Frain = Dumb Assassin. That second shot must have been a head shot... Link to comment
FemmyV August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 I'm open to the idea Paul is alive, I'm just not holding my breath. 1 Link to comment
shapeshifter August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 I'm open to the idea Paul is alive, I'm just not holding my breath.Maybe Paul's holding his breath while wearing a bullet proof vest? Link to comment
FemmyV August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 Maybe Paul's holding his breath while wearing a bullet proof vest? It's a nice thought. 1 Link to comment
teddysmom August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 As this isn't a spoiler thread, I assume that's simply your intuition? Yes. I'm just hoping that NP rises above the cliche. Marty & Ruste should have both died from their wounds last season, so I'm holding onto hope. Link to comment
Crim August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 I find all characters such cliches, Paul so uninteresting, and it's not like he'd get that much screen time to look pretty since there is just one episode left, so I don't understand this hope that Paul is alive. What difference does it make? Is it just "don't bury your gays"? Link to comment
Cardie August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 I'm amazed the one cliché NP thus has far avoided was that Ani's dad was not in fact the leader of sinister sex-religious cult but merely a clueless, free-love-advocating hippie who never considered the downside of that philosophy when pursued without limits. 5 Link to comment
Matt K August 4, 2015 Share August 4, 2015 Maybe Paul's holding his breath while wearing a bullet proof vest? And the bullets just happened to break a pouch of fruit punch he'd been saving for later. 6 Link to comment
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