S07.E13: Sonja Island

[motorcitymom65]

Ramona got Dorinda on the show. They have known each other for many many years. I don't understand where the confusion is. Ramona has a ton of good friends that we don't see on the show. They all do.

I don't think there is confusion about them being friends, I just don't think it has the same meaning as say Carole and Heather being friends. Ramona and Sonja also talk about how they have known each other for years and have been there for each other, yet that is not really true. We know they were friends back before each got married and then had a huge falling out that last almost 20 years until Sonja came on the show. We have seen both talk about not communicating with each other during the hiatus. Heather knew more about how things were between Mario and Ramona than Sonja did because they talk more, yet Sonja and Ramona always refer to each other as BFF's. Bullshit.

Dorinda had zero idea what was going on in the early scenes between Ramona and Mario and was surprised to hear he was trying to win her back. These are not friends who spend a lot of time together or share their lives. They are social friends who get together at charity events or in groups for dinner. Ramona has never spent any time lounging around Dorinda's pool or even been to her home on the city. Dorinda said in an early interview that Bravo had been trying to get her on the show for years, so I am not sure if that is really about Ramona. I actually think that Lu and Dorinda have been better friends over the years. As others have noticed, if you watch older episodes you will see Dorinda in some of the party/charity scenes. She seemed to be a guest of Lu's.

[WireWrap]

I don't think there is confusion about them being friends, I just don't think it has the same meaning as say Carole and Heather being friends. Ramona and Sonja also talk about how they have known each other for years and have been there for each other, yet that is not really true. We know they were friends back before each got married and then had a huge falling out that last almost 20 years until Sonja came on the show. We have seen both talk about not communicating with each other during the hiatus. Heather knew more about how things were between Mario and Ramona than Sonja did because they talk more, yet Sonja and Ramona always refer to each other as BFF's. Bullshit.

Dorinda had zero idea what was going on in the early scenes between Ramona and Mario and was surprised to hear he was trying to win her back. These are not friends who spend a lot of time together or share their lives. They are social friends who get together at charity events or in groups for dinner. Ramona has never spent any time lounging around Dorinda's pool or even been to her home on the city. Dorinda said in an early interview that Bravo had been trying to get her on the show for years, so I am not sure if that is really about Ramona. I actually think that Lu and Dorinda have been better friends over the years. As others have noticed, if you watch older episodes you will see Dorinda in some of the party/charity scenes. She seemed to be a guest of Lu's.

Exactly! There is a world of difference between being "friends" and being "friendly".

[halkatla]

 

IMO, what we see of Heather is really who she is. She does not come across as fake

 

I was on the cusp of writing exactly this! I think this is what makes Heather special, she´s not fake in any way. I find her generally one of the more likable housewives but she also annoys at times.

 

I like some HW´s for their fakeness, when it makes them look silly or crazy, that is entertainment, but it needs to be juxtaposed with the realness of a Heather sometimes too. Luann has made a character out of herself , the countess, and that is the thing that makes her interesting. I don´t think she would have been as fun to watch if she hadn´t done that.

 

Dorinda is probably a p**cho like Aviva deep down. She has displayed some hints of that, like when she was having lunch with her boyfriend. She comes across as so real and together and then looses it because of some non-issue that not even Ramona herself would notice. It´s not looking too good...

[KungFuBunny]

I don't think there is confusion about them being friends, I just don't think it has the same meaning as say Carole and Heather being friends. Ramona and Sonja also talk about how they have known each other for years and have been there for each other, yet that is not really true. We know they were friends back before each got married and then had a huge falling out that last almost 20 years until Sonja came on the show. We have seen both talk about not communicating with each other during the hiatus. Heather knew more about how things were between Mario and Ramona than Sonja did because they talk more, yet Sonja and Ramona always refer to each other as BFF's. Bullshit.

Dorinda had zero idea what was going on in the early scenes between Ramona and Mario and was surprised to hear he was trying to win her back. These are not friends who spend a lot of time together or share their lives. They are social friends who get together at charity events or in groups for dinner. Ramona has never spent any time lounging around Dorinda's pool or even been to her home on the city. Dorinda said in an early interview that Bravo had been trying to get her on the show for years, so I am not sure if that is really about Ramona. I actually think that Lu and Dorinda have been better friends over the years. As others have noticed, if you watch older episodes you will see Dorinda in some of the party/charity scenes. She seemed to be a guest of Lu's.

Agree!

 

All of the housewives with the exception of Carole & Heather are not friends.

I see them as co-workers that may be friendly. As in, friendly to each other during work hours, you all might even go out out to lunch. Every once in a while, after work you might get together to go out for drinks cause it's someone's birthday or someone got engaged.

 

They are friends during filming. During the hiatus when they are not filming, one may show up to another's event if there is a step n repeat. During the hiatus, the majority of them don't see each other...how many have we heard at a reunion across all franchises say they haven't seen each other since the finale.

 

I like the NY franchise the best...they are catty with each other but when it comes down to it...I don't find them as viscous and nasty with each other as the other cities. Nobody is mortally wounded and the fights are just so stupid and silly.

[trimthatfat]

Was it really going to be just a salad, though? They chop these scenes up so much, I find it hard to take in all the scenery. While she was working on what appeared to be a salad, how do we know that was the only thing that was going to be served? I guess we'll see in the next episode how it plays out.

 

Not sure. My point was that even if it was 'just' a salad, it was in poor form for Ramona to do what she did. It's possible there was more to meal, I couldn't tell.

Edited July 5, 2015 by trimthatfat

[WireWrap]

Not sure. My point was that even if it was 'just' a salad, it was in poor form for Ramona to do what she did. It's possible there was more to meal, I couldn't tell.

Ramona got upset when the HWs had a first brunch at Bethennys Hampton house instead of going ONLY to her brunch in a restaurant! LOL 

[AnnA]

Ramona got upset when the HWs had a first brunch at Bethennys Hampton house instead of going ONLY to her brunch in a restaurant! LOL 

 

That's because Ramona lives in a world that revolves around Ramona.

 

Didn't Ramona screw up the email invitation to that brunch too?

[Rainny]

That's because Ramona lives in a world that revolves around Ramona.

 

Didn't Ramona screw up the email invitation to that brunch too?

Yes, I think I remember her saying her email malfunctioned and all the invitations went to her trash or something by mistake. 

[Joan van Snark]

I think this show should become "Real Housewives of the Islands" because it is always so good when they are on vacation.

[archer1267]

Well, usually it takes a couple of seasons for the HW tagged "the voice of reason" to implode, but Dorinda's really accelerated that arc, hasn't she? She seems so low-key at times when everyone else is losing their shit, but then there've been a couple of times when she's been really short-fused. Like, that dinner with John where she was being flirty and talking about him spending the night (since her daughter was away), but all it took was one comment from him to sour the entire evening. Even if we only saw a snippet of the whole discussion, I find it tough to believe that Heather did anything that bad to warrant the Twitter nastiness.

[halkatla]

 

How interesting that she doesn't include the fact that Ramona would very shortly stab Beth in the back. Zero mention of this fact and zero judgment of Ramona for what she did. Does she not think that what Ramona did to Beth (and even to Sonja in talking about her behind her back all the time) was far worse than Heather walking into a restaurant without her? If she doesn't think that, then she truly is delusional, which would make sense since she seems to be firmly on the side of Sonja and Ramona.

 

I just read Dorinda´s blog and omg she´s delusional, crazy and a bitch. I hope this is her only season because we have all those qualities already in Sonja, Ramona and Bethenny and they all do it better. I find Dorinda exceptionally fake, and the way she sees things and twists them is annoying to me. Like where she said something about how for 50 years she has said that girlfriends should give each other support and friendship, I mean who doesn´t say that? Seriously, it´s like being proud of the fact that she always says meat should be cooked, like other people would just eat it raw all the time. That kind of thing bugs me a lot. You should not act like you are the only one who understands friendship or promotes kindness. And another thing I can´t stand from the blog is when she went all "if I overreacted". She was totally minimizing her own fault there, but it´s just a little piece of a gigantic puzzle where Dorinda is nothing like the logical, classy lady she claims to be in her blog. I hope Bethenny and Ramona are on team Heather in this lame, manipulative fued of hers, otherwise I´ll just give up (kidding, but still).

[motorcitymom65]

I just read Dorinda´s blog and omg she´s delusional, crazy and a bitch. I hope this is her only season because we have all those qualities already in Sonja, Ramona and Bethenny and they all do it better. I find Dorinda exceptionally fake, and the way she sees things and twists them is annoying to me. Like where she said something about how for 50 years she has said that girlfriends should give each other support and friendship, I mean who doesn´t say that? Seriously, it´s like being proud of the fact that she always says meat should be cooked, like other people would just eat it raw all the time. That kind of thing bugs me a lot. You should not act like you are the only one who understands friendship or promotes kindness. And another thing I can´t stand from the blog is when she went all "if I overreacted". She was totally minimizing her own fault there, but it´s just a little piece of a gigantic puzzle where Dorinda is nothing like the logical, classy lady she claims to be in her blog. I hope Bethenny and Ramona are on team Heather in this lame, manipulative fued of hers, otherwise I´ll just give up (kidding, but still).

I have to say, the whole deal about meat in your post totally cracked me up. I am so going to steal that.

 

I would love to know which side Ramona is on in this whole deal. She and Dorinda seem to be close right now, but honestly, I don't think Ramona is making a move or citing an opinion without first knowing how Beth feels about it. I could be wrong, but I think she wants to be firmly on Beth's side in any argument or debate. She is hardly blogging at all this season, and when she does, she gives very little away as far as how she felt about any of the action. She is saying nothing that could get her into any trouble. I think she is going to wait until the season ends and judge fan reaction (coupled with Beth's reaction) before she makes any type of commitment to one team or the other. 

[izabella]

Didn't we see Ramona literally kissing Beth's ass in the "coming up next" segment at the end?  Ramona and Beth were on their knees on a paddle board and Ramona actually kissed Beth's ass? 

[motorcitymom65]

Didn't we see Ramona literally kissing Beth's ass in the "coming up next" segment at the end?  Ramona and Beth were on their knees on a paddle board and Ramona actually kissed Beth's ass? 

Yes, we literally saw Ramona kiss Beth's ass. 

[Crikey]

A Page Six source says that Sonja is upset that she did not receive one thank you note for taking the girls on the T&C trip.  They are selfish and mean after she treated them to a vacation.  And here I was thinking Bravo paid for the trips, silly me.

Con-ya Morgan,  what a generous chick!

[jaync]

I simply was excited to see the girls and walk into the restaurant with them...This actually could have been a happy moment for me, but as you saw, it wasn’t.

 

[Sincerely Yours]

I honestly do not remember - prior to that dinner - any clear verbal or social cues that Beth gave her to not fuss over her. On every instance I saw them together, Beth was nasty towards Heather for bringing up party invites, reasons Ramona is bat-shit crazy, or discussion of her custody issues. I don't remember any time when Heather was seen to have been "fussing" over Beth before she offered to give her a meatball. As far as I am aware, the only social cue that Beth ever gave off was that she would prefer for Heather to not speak. At all. Ever. About anything. She didn't seem to like it when Heather spoke about anything. Not a gig on MSNBC, not about naming of companies, not about custody. not about another persons hurt feelings. If anyone can make me understand how any of this is the same as Heather "fussing" over Beth, I would love to understand. I read it all the time so I must be missing something. I guess that means that I too would have missed these obvious social cues Beth was sending out to not fuss over her. 

 

I don't think that the reactions of the other women had anything to do with what went down between the two of them, or of Heather telling Beth that she would give her space. I think it was the fact that Beth just finally said it out loud. 

Well actually what you described would sort of confirm that Heather was missing ONE BIG social cue and that is that Beth is just a bitch cause Heather still kept interacting with her in a civil manner instead putting that bitch in her place the first time she was all kinds of rude to her for no damn reason. Lol!

[archer1267]

...I don't think Ramona is making a move or citing an opinion without first knowing how Beth feels about it. I could be wrong, but I think she wants to be firmly on Beth's side in any argument or debate.

 

 

That would be surprising, based on the very first episode where the two locked horns almost immediately (and she didn't exactly go out of her way to endear herself to Bethenny on this episode, what with rounding people up to go out to eat when B was clearly making lunch for everyone, or throwing her under the bus with the Sonja stuff). I think after last season, Ramona's happy to be more in the background and not be the lightning rod that she's been at different times. She's also shown that she doesn't really care what anyone else thinks :)

 

A Page Six source says that Sonja is upset that she did not receive one thank you note for taking the girls on the T&C trip.

 

 

Oh Sonja, get off your cross, we could use the wood. And considering your lengthy PR experience, you need to do a better job of promoting yourself as the trip coordinator, because it's news to me as well that you took care of the trip. What did you do, other than sulk?

Edited July 6, 2015 by archer1267

[KungFuBunny]

Oh Lord, her intern spelled Sonja's name wrong when typing the blog name. Well, unless we had 2 Presidents named "Moran." Untentionally funny though.

Sonja should be happy the intern didn't spell "moron"

[motorcitymom65]

That would be surprising, based on the very first episode where the two locked horns almost immediately (and she didn't exactly go out of her way to endear herself to Bethenny on this episode, what with rounding people up to go out to eat when B was clearly making lunch for everyone, or throwing her under the bus with the Sonja stuff). I think after last season, Ramona's happy to be more in the background and not be the lightning rod that she's been at different times. She's also shown that she doesn't really care what anyone else thinks :)

 

I think Ramona was very hesitant to have Beth back, and that is why she reacted the way she did when she first saw her. I think she very quickly decided that the way to go was to stay on her good side.  The stuff about Ramona running around grabbing rooms, or leaving while Beth makes lunch are not examples that she doesn't care what Beth thinks, IMO. They are examples of the fact that Ramona has just become use to folks letting her do whatever she wants and saying very little about it. Ramona doesn't see what she is doing wrong when she behaves like this, because in her entitled mind this is the way she is supposed to be acting. When Beth called her out as "lord of the manor" for rushing to find her room, Ramona was shocked. Folks don't usually put up a fuss when Ramona acts all Ramona-like. She immediately went out to apologize to Beth, even adding in the middle of her apology "you look beautiful by the way".  It was the most transparent attempt to kiss up to someone I have ever seen. She didn't hesitate to throw Beth under the bus about the stuff with Sonja not because she cares or doesn't care what Beth thinks, but because Ramona doesn't see what she did as wrong.  She has always thrown people under the bus, yet she doesn't understand what folks are talking about when they accuse her of this. She honestly has no idea how to communicate with the rest of the human beings. If you watched the First Looks, you will see more of the same to such an extent it is almost painful to watch after the lunch deal.  All the other ladies are very aware of what Ramona is doing and are just kind of mocking her for it, which makes it all the more funny. 

Edited July 6, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

 

Kelly may come by her loon qualifications honestly, but she didn't really graduate from Columbia.  She essentially slipped in through the back door by going to the School of General Studies, not to Columbia College.  GS is kind of like the community-college branch of the university.  It was set up so that nontraditional students--people working full-time, adults going back to get an education--had someplace to study.  But a GS degree isn't anything like a degree from the college, and neither are the entrance requirements.  She isn't outright lying when she says she went to Columbia, but she isn't telling the whole truth either.

 

Aviva's a loon, too, but she isn't stupid.

 

 

How do you tell "the whole truth"? Add a paragraph like above when mentioning the degree one has? Non traditional students, working full time don't usually get dumbed down curriculum just because they aren't going to school like recent high schoolers and don't live in the dorms do they? I've always been curious about why people would think the curriculum for any Columbia college was drastically different. Non traditional students don't get watered down curriculum, it's just part time with classes that can be taken during non traditional school hours and part time.

 

I found this description online:

 

The School of General Studies is Columbia’s college for nontraditional students who want to earn a degree while attending full- or part-time. Nontraditional students have had a break of one year or more in their educational paths or have compelling personal or professional reasons for completing their bachelor’s degrees part time. Students in the School of General Studies take the same courses with the same faculty and undertake the same majors as all other undergraduates at Columbia.

 

Which is pretty much the case for most non-traditional students in most any college. Our degrees don't say "Bachelor's of Science thru part time and night classes with breaks in between"..

 

Sorry off topic this logic just never made sense to me. Maybe it's just my non-traditional degree talking.   

Edited July 6, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[motorcitymom65]

Wow, they are still doing the TH interviews at this late date.  Dorinda mentioned it in a tweet today. 

 

Dorinda MedleyVerified account
‏@DorindaMedley
Workin my one-liners for my last round of #RHONY interviews today for the last few episodes before #reunion time!! #excited #TheNewGirl XXO

[KungFuBunny]

I think Ramona was very hesitant to have Beth back, and that is why she reacted the way she did when she first saw her. I think she very quickly decided that the way to go was to stay on her good side.  The stuff about Ramona running around grabbing rooms, or leaving while Beth makes lunch are not examples that she doesn't care what Beth thinks, IMO. They are examples of the fact that Ramona has just become use to folks letting her do whatever she wants and saying very little about it. Ramona doesn't see what she is doing wrong when she behaves like this, because in her entitled mind this is the way she is supposed to be acting. When Beth called her out as "lord of the manor" for rushing to find her room, Ramona was shocked. Folks don't usually put up a fuss when Ramona acts all Ramona-like. She immediately went out to apologize to Beth, even adding in the middle of her apology "you look beautiful by the way".  It was the most transparent attempt to kiss up to someone I have ever seen. She didn't hesitate to throw Beth under the bus about the stuff with Sonja not because she cares or doesn't care what Beth thinks, but because Ramona doesn't see what she did as wrong.  She has always thrown people under the bus, yet she doesn't understand what folks are talking about when they accuse her of this. She honestly has no idea how to communicate with the rest of the human beings. If you watched the First Looks, you will see more of the same to such an extent it is almost painful to watch after the lunch deal.  All the other ladies are very aware of what Ramona is doing and are just kind of mocking her for it, which makes it all the more funny. 

On the Watch What Crappens Podcast, Ronnie & Amy compared Ramona to a puppy.

No matter what the ladies do to Ramona to try to correct her, she will still exhibit the same behavior.

So they all sort of just pat her on her head and let her do her thing.

They said oops the puppy chewed my shoe, but at least it didn't shit on the floor today.

 

If you think back to season 1 wasn't Ramona's storyline - she is "renewed"

Hasn't this been her storyline....every year?

Doesn't she claim she renewed, refreshed, more calm, more zen.....every year?

 

LOL

 

The Noodle still cracks me up...as awful as the things she says or does to the other ladies...I don't think it is too deep. Her skin line TruRenew should be renamed TrulyClueless

[Lakewood27]

A Page Six source says that Sonja is upset that she did not receive one thank you note for taking the girls on the T&C trip.

 

Oh, Sonja. We are 7 years into the Real Housewives thing. Everyone knows the SOP is that Bravo sponsors a (mandatory) cast trip or two, every season. You may be the hostess, but you didn't pay for squat. Why do you require a 'thank you' note?

 

As far as cuckoo Kelly and her degree from Columbia, I think the reason we're so quick to discount her achievements is because she tends to use them as proof that we are "down here", while she is "up here". She's an unbearable snob. And a dingbat.

[imjagain]

Does anybody else think Ramona brought her own noodles? The noodles had bends in them, like they had been packed in a suitcase lol.

Didn't she bring her noodles on another vacation?

Edited July 6, 2015 by imjagain

[MollyZee]

Nothing funnier this ep than watching Moaner and Sonja flapping hysterically around the single-cup brewer with nary a clue how to work the thing. Dorinda's wonder about how (paraphrased) "it's like they've never been in an actual kitchen before... like it's some sort of art installation..." had me in total stitches. 

 

And, "oh, so THIS is the coffee!!" as she inspected the espresso pod must have done wonders for Sonja's "international lifestyle empty toaster oven box" brand shtick. Heh

[motorcitymom65]

Nothing funnier this ep than watching Moaner and Sonja flapping hysterically around the single-cup brewer with nary a clue how to work the thing. Dorinda's wonder about how (paraphrased) "it's like they've never been in an actual kitchen before... like it's some sort of art installation..." had me in total stitches. 

 

And, "oh, so THIS is the coffee!!" as she inspected the espresso pod must have done wonders for Sonja's "international lifestyle empty toaster oven box" brand shtick. Heh

It was funny, and made me better understand why the shower knobs might be so confusing to them.

[missy jo]

Nothing funnier this ep than watching Moaner and Sonja flapping hysterically around the single-cup brewer with nary a clue how to work the thing. Dorinda's wonder about how (paraphrased) "it's like they've never been in an actual kitchen before... like it's some sort of art installation..." had me in total stitches.

 

 

Me too! When she said "art installation," I thought that with their level of confusion, they might as well have been feeding a clown at Art Basel.

 

Wow, they are still doing the TH interviews at this late date.  Dorinda mentioned it in a tweet today.

 

 

** adds this info to "Bethenny Image Reform" conspiracy theory file **

[missy jo]

They are friends during filming. During the hiatus when they are not filming, one may show up to another's event if there is a step n repeat. During the hiatus, the majority of them don't see each other...how many have we heard at a reunion across all franchises say they haven't seen each other since the finale.

 

 

I'm thinking it might be more than just Carole/Heather as far as the IRL friendship. Heather got a lot of heat for saying she had to make sure Sonja got home at night on the regular, to the point of "carrying her up the stairs." LuAnn has now said the same. They're also recounting nights out that weren't filmed.

 

I think Dorinda is retconning her friendship with Heather now, compared to what they were saying about bonding in the Berkshires during the previous summer. Dorinda didn't deny it back then, nor did she object to Heather lightheartedly claiming to "cohost" Dorinda's birthday weekend.

 

I think one factor might be seeing the episodes as they air and all the THs. Now all these bitches know what the other bitches were saying behind their backs the whole time! That'll change your perspective right quick.

 

ETA: Why do my posts keep going into two in a row? Sorry, guys!

Edited July 7, 2015 by missy jo

[Mondrianyone]

How do you tell "the whole truth"? Add a paragraph like above when mentioning the degree one has? Non traditional students, working full time don't usually get dumbed down curriculum just because they aren't going to school like recent high schoolers and don't live in the dorms do they? I've always been curious about why people would think the curriculum for any Columbia college was drastically different. Non traditional students don't get watered down curriculum, it's just part time with classes that can be taken during non traditional school hours and part time.

 

I found this description online:

 

The School of General Studies is Columbia’s college for nontraditional students who want to earn a degree while attending full- or part-time. Nontraditional students have had a break of one year or more in their educational paths or have compelling personal or professional reasons for completing their bachelor’s degrees part time. Students in the School of General Studies take the same courses with the same faculty and undertake the same majors as all other undergraduates at Columbia.

 

Which is pretty much the case for most non-traditional students in most any college. Our degrees don't say "Bachelor's of Science thru part time and night classes with breaks in between"..

 

Sorry off topic this logic just never made sense to me. Maybe it's just my non-traditional degree talking.   

 

This really was off topic when we originally talked about it, and it still is, so I won't dwell on it any more than to say this:

 

The acceptance rate for the College hovers around 6%.  The acceptance rate for GS is 34%.  So the level of selectivity is just different, no way around it.  Theoretically (not my personal experience, so theoretically), all you have to do is wait a year after graduating from high school to apply, and you can get into Columbia University much more easily, a 1-in-3 chance rather than a 6-in-100 chance.

 

It wasn't my intention to offend you or your degree, and I apologize if my post did that.  It was my intention to offend Kelly.

 

Sorry also for boring everybody else with this crap.  I'm done now.

[WireWrap]

I'm thinking it might be more than just Carole/Heather as far as the IRL friendship. Heather got a lot of heat for saying she had to make sure Sonja got home at night on the regular, to the point of "carrying her up the stairs." LuAnn has now said the same. They're also recounting nights out that weren't filmed.

 

I think Dorinda is retconning her friendship with Heather now, compared to what they were saying about bonding in the Berkshires during the previous summer. Dorinda didn't deny it back then, nor did she object to Heather lightheartedly claiming to "cohost" Dorinda's birthday weekend.

 

I think one factor might be seeing the episodes as they air and all the THs. Now all these bitches know what the other bitches were saying behind their backs the whole time! That'll change your perspective right quick.

 

ETA: Why do my posts keep going into two in a row? Sorry, guys!

Except that Heather did not say anything nasty/mean about Dorinda until last weeks episode and that wasn't very mild compared to other THs made by/about other HWs. IMO, it is all about making Bethenny look good/sympathetic while making Heather or others Bethenny does not gel with look bad.  I also believe that LuAnn has coached/schooled Dorinda to stay close to Andy's friends, Bethenny and/or Carole, to secure another season on the show. Both LuAnn and Dorinda are using twitter much in the same manner to bash Dorinda------Heather and LuAnn------Carole and Heather and they both started doing it rather quickly, 1 right after the other. Dorinda is mimicking LuAnn step for step on twitter in her attack style and her vague "you will see it soon" tweets. She did this with "walk gate" then said you "can't make all your fans happy" when she was called out about her idiotic behavior and that her fans defended Heather, not her for the most part and quickly followed up by saying that Heather gets nasty again "soon" with everyone else as well. LuAnn has been tweeting similar things about Carole as well. LOL JMO

[archer1267]

Non traditional students, working full time don't usually get dumbed down curriculum just because they aren't going to school like recent high schoolers and don't live in the dorms do they? I've always been curious about why people would think the curriculum for any Columbia college was drastically different. Non traditional students don't get watered down curriculum, it's just part time with classes that can be taken during non traditional school hours and part time.

 

I know this is getting off-topic, but I see red when people equate a college's adult/continuing education division with remedial education, as something "less than" or dumbed down. (Not that you did, SincerelyYours, but I've seen little quips here and there about the implications.) Kelly has her issues, but she's not a proxy for everyone who enrolls in these schools (and maybe she has her own kind of intelligence that we just didn't see on the show). I have a graduate certificate from Harvard Extension School and yes, the entrance requirements are more relaxed. But to matriculate into a program, you have to take three core classes and maintain a 3.0 (out of a possible 4.0) average before you can apply, so it's not like a diploma mill.

 

And the classes weren't "dumbed down" - I worked hard and it was an intellectually stimulating environment. At the time, I was in my late 30s and appreciated that there was a wide range of students in my classes in terms of age and life experience. I enjoyed it more, and got more out of it, than I did my traditional undergraduate and graduate experience in my teens/20s. I think it's a wonderful resource for anyone wanting to take a class or hone their skill set.

[ryebread]

I wish that Dorinda hadn't horned in on Ramona and Heather's conversation at dinner about their marriages.  I'm curious about the state of Heather's.  She was starting to dish a little and Dorinda 'backed that shit up' by plopping herself right down between the two of them.

 

This is the second time Ramona has talked about Heather and Jon's relationship but this time, Heather was nodding in agreement and  commenting.  I agree with Ramona's observations. 

 

How did we not know that Heather calls Jonathon, "Schinny".  Short for Schindler, I presume.  He probably hates it but is afraid to tell her so.

[shoegal]

Late to the party, but I found the whole conversation on marriage between Ramona and Heather to be weird. I wonder how Jonathan feels about Heather talking about their emotional escalating fights and agreeing that he is weaker than her....here's a tip, Heather, maybe you aren't the girl who will be like "oh my god, you're the most amazing thing that ever happened to me..." but maybe you could show him a little respect and be the girl that refrains from talking about your emotional and weak husband on the teevee. At least, if you want him to stay your husband.

Edited July 7, 2015 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

Late to the party, but I found the whole conversation on marriage between Ramona and Heather to be weird. I wonder how Jonathan feels about Heather talking about their emotional escalating fights and agreeing that he is weaker than her....here's a tip, Heather, maybe you aren't the girl who will be like "oh my god, you're the most amazing thing that ever happened to me..." but maybe you could show him a little respect and be the girl that refrains from talking about your emotional and weak husband on the teevee. At least, if you want him to stay your husband.

Heather never claimed/said that Jon was "emotional or weak". She said that he knew she was a strong woman when he married her, in other words, he knew who/what she was from the get go. And that was said in response to Ramona telling her that she should be something other than who/what she really is to make her husband happy.

I wish that Dorinda hadn't horned in on Ramona and Heather's conversation at dinner about their marriages.  I'm curious about the state of Heather's.  She was starting to dish a little and Dorinda 'backed that shit up' by plopping herself right down between the two of them.

 

This is the second time Ramona has talked about Heather and Jon's relationship but this time, Heather was nodding in agreement and  commenting.  I agree with Ramona's observations. 

 

How did we not know that Heather calls Jonathon, "Schinny".  Short for Schindler, I presume.  He probably hates it but is afraid to tell her so.

I think Heather was just allowing Ramona to vent, she was not saying that there are problems in her own marriage.

Edited July 7, 2015 by WireWrap

[shoegal]

Heather never claimed/said that Jon was "emotional or weak". She said that he knew she was a strong woman when he married her, in other words, he knew who/what she was from the get go. And that was said in response to Ramona telling her that she should be something other than who/what she really is to make her husband happy.

She said their fights escalate because he gets emotional....and she agreed with Ramona that he is not as strong as she is....which means, weaker than her.

Edited July 7, 2015 by shoegal

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

There wasn't anything more to Heather's description about her marriage other than they are a norma, healthy couple. They find themselves fighting over petty argument and Heather says because the issues are so minor, she gets upset with herself for the escalation. Exhibit 276986 that Heather is self aware ;)

 

I liked what she says about being a strong woman and never feeling like Ramona in that she doesn't need Jon to feel complete. She loves him and all but he is not her everything. If only more women think like that, they wouldn't be made fools off by their significant others IMO. If a man knows you are essentially nothing without him, he'll flaunt his affairs with the young blonds mistresses knowing you'll take his tired ass back. 

[WireWrap]

She said their fights escalate because he gets emotional....and she agreed with Ramona that he was not as strong as Heather. Which means, weaker than her.

 IMO, she was agreeing with Ramona because it was what Ramona needed, not because she actually agreed with her. She realized that Ramona was talking about herself/Mario and not about Heather/Jon and just went with the flow, this is 1 of the rare times Ramona has spoken about her marriage outside glowing terms or the cheating. JMO

[shoegal]

There wasn't anything more to Heather's description about her marriage other than they are a norma, healthy couple.

I don't know about that, not being willing to tell your husband that he's the most amazing thing that ever happened to you doesn't sound like a super awesome healthy marriage to me. Ramona may be batshit crazy, but I don't think she was off in the advice that you should make your husband feel like he's the most important person to you (or wife, or spouse in general). Hearing my spouse say, mockingly, how they would never be the one to say "oh my god, you are the most amaaaaaazing thing that ever happened to me" would make me feel like shit. Maybe Jonathan is used to it, but doesn't mean he won't ever get sick of it.

IMO, she was agreeing with Ramona because it was what Ramona needed, not because she actually agreed with her. She realized that Ramona was talking about herself/Mario and not about Heather/Jon and just went with the flow, this is 1 of the rare times Ramona has spoken about her marriage outside glowing terms or the cheating. JMO

But Ramona was talking about Heather and Jonathan, and Heather agreed. She didn't have to agree to allow Ramona to vent, maybe it's just me but I don't go with the flow when others talk smack about my spouse. Especially since Ramona has talked smack about Jonathan being weak before....what is it about Heather that won't stand up for her husband? Makes me go hmmmmmm. Edited July 7, 2015 by shoegal

[WireWrap]

I don't know about that, not being willing to tell your husband that he's the most amazing thing that ever happened to you doesn't sound like a super awesome healthy marriage to me. Ramona may be batshit crazy, but I don't think she was off in the advice that you should make your husband feel like he's the most important person to you (or wife, or spouse in general). Hearing my spouse say mockingly "oh my god, you are the most amaaaaaazing thing that ever happened to me" would make me feel like shit. Maybe Jonathan is used to it, but doesn't mean he won't ever get sick of it.

But Ramona was talking about Heather and Jonathan, and Heather agreed. She didn't have to agree to allow Ramona to vent, maybe it's just me but I don't go with the flow when others talk smack about my spouse. Especially since Ramona has talked smack about Jonathan being weak before....what is it about Heather that won't stand up for her husband? Makes me go hmmmmmm.

First, Ramona always told Mario, on camera, that he was THE best, that he was her ROCK, that he was SEXY.....she was always telling the world how GREAT he was as a man, husband and father......and how well did that work out for her? LOL

 

You let Ramona ramble because otherwise she gets pissed off and starts to argue with you! Ramona does NOT know Jon at all nor does she know what Heather/Jon's marriage is like at all, she rarely interacts with them as a couple. Oh, and we have heard Heather say how much she loves and respects Jon several times on the show, 1 example of it was last season at their anniversary party....a party that Ramona refused to attend. Ramona's excuse for not attending, on camera, was that Aviva was not invited but I suspect that it was because Ramona did not want to see a happy couple celebrate their marriage in lite of the Mario cheating scandal, which was all over the press by then. IMO, Ramona was trying to make Mario look less despicable in hopes that he takes her back, not that she had any interest in Heather/Jon's marriage, it was all about her/Mario. JMO

[shoegal]

First, Ramona always told Mario, on camera, that he was THE best, that he was her ROCK, that he was SEXY.....she was always telling the world how GREAT he was as a man, husband and father......and how well did that work out for her? LOL

You let Ramona ramble because otherwise she gets pissed off and starts to argue with you! Ramona does NOT know Jon at all nor does she know what Heather/Jon's marriage is like at all, she rarely interacts with them as a couple. Oh, and we have heard Heather say how much she loves and respects Jon several times on the show, 1 example of it was last season at their anniversary party....a party that Ramona refused to attend. Ramona's excuse for not attending, on camera, was that Aviva was not invited but I suspect that it was because Ramona did not want to see a happy couple celebrate their marriage in lite of the Mario cheating scandal, which was all over the press by then. IMO, Ramona was trying to make Mario look less despicable in hopes that he takes her back, not that she had any interest in Heather/Jon's marriage, it was all about her/Mario. JMO

I know Ramona has always talked how people tell her how sexy Mario is and how lucky she is, but she stated to Heather that she always told Mario that she married him because he let her be her. So even her relationship with Mario was all about her. I don't think that is a great way to make your spouse feel important and valued, but it's a great way to make them feel like a prop in your world. She was actually on to something with her advice to Heather IMO (minus the condescending men are like babies part).

Heather could have easily and cordially said something to Ramona like, 'Jonathan is a strong man, don't let him fool you! He's actually stronger than me in...bah blah blah'....she didn't have to agree to avoid a fight, especially knowing what Ramona has said about Jonathan in the past. If she didn't agree, she was willing to throw her husband under the RamonaCoaster on television. Either way, shitty wife behavior IMO.

As far as Ramona knowing Heather and Jonathan, she certainly knows them better than anyone watching the show, so I think her observations on their relationship have a little more credibility, and in this case, Heather herself agreed. Kristin certainly knows them and her observation lines up with Ramona in that Heather bosses him around. I will never forget the way Heather treated Jonathan during the Aviva fight at LuAnn's Hamptons house. Between that, the interactions or lack of during the Berkshires meltdown and her revealing and mocking comments in this episode, I am giving bulldog Heather the cyanide. #freeJonathan

Edited July 7, 2015 by shoegal

[motorcitymom65]

I don't know about that, not being willing to tell your husband that he's the most amazing thing that ever happened to you doesn't sound like a super awesome healthy marriage to me. Ramona may be batshit crazy, but I don't think she was off in the advice that you should make your husband feel like he's the most important person to you (or wife, or spouse in general). Hearing my spouse say, mockingly, how they would never be the one to say "oh my god, you are the most amaaaaaazing thing that ever happened to me" would make me feel like shit. Maybe Jonathan is used to it, but doesn't mean he won't ever get sick of it.

But Ramona was talking about Heather and Jonathan, and Heather agreed. She didn't have to agree to allow Ramona to vent, maybe it's just me but I don't go with the flow when others talk smack about my spouse. Especially since Ramona has talked smack about Jonathan being weak before....what is it about Heather that won't stand up for her husband? Makes me go hmmmmmm.

I thought this was such an interesting conversation, and showed the difference between Heather and Ramona so clearly. The look on Heather's face when Ramona said the thing about how she and Heather were stronger than Mario and Jon wasn't one of agreement, but she really didn't say anything. i think she was trying to bond with Ramona and be supportive and so she let her have that. This was the exact same narrative that we heard from Ramona last year, and Heather pushed back on that hard at the reunion. In this instance, Ramona needs to believe that her being strong was one of her issues in her marriage. Of course, most people (and I am sure Heather is included here) don't see Ramona's strength as the problem, but her insecurity, entitlement, and lack of ability to care about the needs of another person. Ramona is not strong, she is extremely weak and selfish. That particular conversation was not the time to tell Ramona that she was wrong about Jon, because all that would have happened was that Ramona would have become angry and defensive. We have seen it before and so has Heather. 

 

The thing was, Heather didn't argue. She could have become defensive, or decided to argue and say something horrible, like "trust me honey, Jon is nothing like your Mario", but she didn't. Contrast that to the last time these two had a heart-to-heart, which was at Dorinda's b-day party at the Caviar place. Heather was trying to say something nice, but Ramona became defensive because she didn't agree or appreciate the comment. She lashed out at Heather and said some not very nice things about her. She should have just let Heather have her moment to say what was in her heart, realizing that even if Heather might have it slightly wrong, she was coming from a good place. Heather was able to do that in this latest conversation with Ramona, but it would be impossible for Ramona to ever do something like that for someone else. 

[ryebread]

As far as Ramona knowing Heather and Jonathan, she certainly knows them better than anyone watching the show, so I think her observations on their relationship have a little more credibility, and in this case, Heather herself agreed. Kristin certainly knows them and her observation lines up with Ramona in that Heather bosses him around. I will never forget the way Heather treated Jonathan during the Aviva fight at LuAnn's Hamptons house. Between that, the interactions or lack of during the Berkshires meltdown and her revealing and mocking comments in this episode, I am giving bulldog Heather the cyanide. #freeJonathan

 

This. 

 

Ramona and Kristin, who obviously know them better than I do confirmed (for me) what I already felt in my gut.  And what I felt in my gut came from Heather's behavior - which came long before Kristin or Ramona said a word.

 

I just watched that scene again of Heather and Ramona.  Curses to you, Dorinda.  Those two were just getting started. Way to read a room, Dorito.  Not.

[shoegal]

The look on Heather's face when Ramona said the thing about how she and Heather were stronger than Mario and Jon wasn't one of agreement, but she really didn't say anything. [\quote]

Heather actually nodded her head yes when Ramona said that Jonathan was not as strong as Heather, and she actually verbally agreed when Ramona said "opposites attract". If Heather is strong and opposites attract, what does that make Jonathan? Heather was absolutely agreeing with Ramona's comments about Jonathan, if she wasn't, she let Ramona call her husband weak and let it slide. Crappy, from either side IMO.

The thing was, Heather didn't argue. She could have become defensive, or decided to argue and say something horrible, like "trust me honey, Jon is nothing like your Mario", but she didn't. Contrast that to the last time these two had a heart-to-heart, which was at Dorinda's b-day party at the Caviar place. Heather was trying to say something nice, but Ramona became defensive because she didn't agree or appreciate the comment. She lashed out at Heather and said some not very nice things about her. She should have just let Heather have her moment to say what was in her heart, realizing that even if Heather might have it slightly wrong, she was coming from a good place. Heather was able to do that in this latest conversation with Ramona, but it would be impossible for Ramona to ever do something like that for someone else.

Heather didn't have to say anything argumentative or snide to Ramona about Jonathan to correct her, and if it pissed Ramona off, who cares? Is her loyalty to Ramona or to her husband? She's willing to fight Ramona on everything else but throw her husband under the bus as to not upset Ramona? She could have at the very least said that she makes sure Jonathan knows how much she loves and respects him and how important he is in her life, instead of mockingly stating she's never going to be the girl that would lower herself to do something like that....but I'm sure Jonathan is used to it.

ET: sorry about the f'ed up quotes

Edited July 7, 2015 by shoegal

[Crikey]

I don't think Ramoaner is strong.  I think she equates her bulldozing people/situations as being strong. 

IMO Ramoaner is a black or white thinker.  Very primitive.

Being vocally loud, unfiltered, running over people, insensitive to others, lacking insight and on and on is not strong.  IMO it shows a lack of strength. 

Ramoaner thinks she is strong and the opposite of that must mean one is weak.  Again,primitive, black or white thinking.  Sometimes strong means keeping one's mouth shut, sometimes allowing others to lead, the ability to take advice and put it into action and on and on.  These are things Ramoaner rarely, if ever, does.

Sometimes an extrovert may be mistaken for being the strong one in a marriage/partnership and the introvert is mistaken for being the weak one.  Sometimes a quiet strength is far more powerful than a loud strength.

IMO Ramoaner's primitive mind sees only the black or white of most situations.  She lacks the ability to see a wide spectrum of grays in between.  Strong or weak, with nothing in between.

Just my thoughts/opinions on Ramoaner.

[motorcitymom65]

Heather actually nodded her head yes when Ramona said that Jonathan was not as strong as Heather, and she actually verbally agreed when Ramona said "opposites attract". If Heather is strong and opposites attract, what does that make Jonathan? Heather was absolutely agreeing with Ramona's comments about Jonathan, if she wasn't, she let Ramona call her husband weak and let it slide. Crappy, from either side IMO

Heather didn't have to say anything argumentative or snide to Ramona about Jonathan to correct her, and if it pissed Ramona off, who cares? Is her loyalty to Ramona or to her husband? She's willing to fight Ramona on everything else but throw her husband under the bus as to not upset Ramona? She could have at the very least said that she makes sure Jonathan knows how much she loves and respects him and how important he is in her life, instead of mockingly stating she's never going to be the girl that would lower herself to do something like that....but I'm sure Jonathan is used to it.

ET: sorry about the f'ed up quotes

I can see how it can be taken either way. I thought Heather was trying to have a nice moment with Ramona and allow her to talk a bit about her situation by sharing some of her stuff as well. I didn't infer that Heather was necessarily agreeing with her, but certainly she didn't disagree. She looked like she was being polite. She looks like I look when my mom says it is wrong to eat carbs after 4PM. I nod, smile, and say "right". I absolutely believe that there is no way to disagree with anything Ramona says if someone wants to have a nice moment. You just cannot. She will latch on to a small word of disagreement like a dog with a bone. Then again, maybe Heather agrees 100%. Not sure. One thing I do know is that none of that conversation would have bothered my husband one single bit. Each couple is different. I certainly wouldn't doubt that there could be problems between Heather and Jon. What I do doubt is that she would share any of that with Ramona, or with the audience. For some reason, should there be trouble in Heather's marriage, I don't think she will let it play out for the camera, but I could be very wrong about that. 

[shoegal]

I can see how it can be taken either way. I thought Heather was trying to have a nice moment with Ramona and allow her to talk a bit about her situation by sharing some of her stuff as well. I didn't infer that Heather was necessarily agreeing with her, but certainly she didn't disagree. She looked like she was being polite. She looks like I look when my mom says it is wrong to eat carbs after 4PM. I nod, smile, and say "right". I absolutely believe that there is no way to disagree with anything Ramona says if someone wants to have a nice moment. You just cannot. She will latch on to a small word of disagreement like a dog with a bone. Then again, maybe Heather agrees 100%. Not sure. One thing I do know is that none of that conversation would have bothered my husband one single bit. Each couple is different. I certainly wouldn't doubt that there could be problems between Heather and Jon. What I do doubt is that she would share any of that with Ramona, or with the audience. For some reason, should there be trouble in Heather's marriage, I don't think she will let it play out for the camera, but I could be very wrong about that.

You are right, Heather didn't disagree, she actively agreed. If she was doing it to be polite, I think that's shitty to Jonathan. Either way, I don't see how she is not being shitty to Jonathan, maybe he doesn't care, maybe he does, I don't know. I thought the whole thing was weird and didn't do Heather any favors.

[motorcitymom65]

You are right, Heather didn't disagree, she actively agreed. If she was doing it to be polite, I think that's shitty to Jonathan. Either way, I don't see how she is not being shitty to Jonathan, maybe he doesn't care, maybe he does, I don't know. I thought the whole thing was weird and didn't do Heather any favors.

We will have to agree to disagree on the agreement. 

[BettyPoz]

You are right, Heather didn't disagree, she actively agreed. If she was doing it to be polite, I think that's shitty to Jonathan. Either way, I don't see how she is not being shitty to Jonathan, maybe he doesn't care, maybe he does, I don't know. I thought the whole thing was weird and didn't do Heather any favors.

So much inferred from her "active agreement!"  I'll keep up with reading OK, US and STAR on my Zinio for sure!

 

Doesn't anyone think that Jonathan is actually pretty secure in his manhood and his relationship with Heather?  Doesn't anyone think that Heather is actually a pretty good partner and wife to her husband with them both having shared in taking care of their son?

 

My husband will be the first to tell you that I rule the roost.  I will be the first to tell you that I run over him and his feelings sometimes like a fire truck.  In public would we say that about each other and our relationship and how we treat each other - absolutely.  28 Years later and we still adore each other and work together and sit across a desk from each other and still go home together at the end of the day.

 

I'd bet anyone who actually KNOWS them, would be sitting back nodding their heads too.

[shoegal]

So much inferred from her "active agreement!"  I'll keep up with reading OK, US and STAR on my Zinio for sure!

 

Doesn't anyone think that Jonathan is actually pretty secure in his manhood and his relationship with Heather?  Doesn't anyone think that Heather is actually a pretty good partner and wife to her husband with them both having shared in taking care of their son?

 

My husband will be the first to tell you that I rule the roost.  I will be the first to tell you that I run over him and his feelings sometimes like a fire truck.  In public would we say that about each other and our relationship and how we treat each other - absolutely.  28 Years later and we still adore each other and work together and sit across a desk from each other and still go home together at the end of the day.

 

I'd bet anyone who actually KNOWS them, would be sitting back nodding their heads too.

I mean "actively agreed" as in nodding her head yes and verbally affirming that Ramona was right about what she was saying.

Ramona "You are a very strong woman, and that's how I am, and I think with my husband, and your husband, they are not as strong as us."

Heather nods head yes

Ramona "and opposites attract"

Heather "Right"

That's what I mean by actively agreeing. Now whether she was agreeing because she agreed or if she was agreeing to be polite and placate Ramona, either way I don't see it as anything other than shitty to Jonathan. I don't know if he has a problem with it or not, maybe he's a submissive guy and he likes it. Maybe Heather puts on her skully and shows that bitch who is boss, I mean, some guys are in to that. Mistress Heather. *shrugs*