Season 17 Live Feed Discussion: Watch People Sleep All Day!

[Ceeg]

The new plan is for Clay and Shelli to go up to James and tell him that the house does not have his back in the upcoming vote. They're not going to throw Steve's name out there, they're only going to imply it. 

What Clay and Shelli should have done is gone to James and said that Shelli will throw her task so that she can't play in Veto next week. Then, they should have thrown Becky under the train, told James all about her going back and forth and reporting conversations, and everything about her alliance with Clay and Shelli and Vanessa, including the name The Generals and that Becky is the one who came up with it, and that Becky won the $5k because she knew if she won Veto she'd have to pick a side, etc. etc.

That would have been the only way to even potentially save them IMO. Putting Steve up there accomplishes nothing for anyone in the house, other than Clay and Shelli. 

Edited August 2, 2015 by Ceeg

[kellog010]

James gave up 5K for the veto. No matter what Shelli and Clay say he's not going to budge. His target may be Shelli but his end goal is to get one of them out. He's not Meg/Becky who are angling to keep Clay. They still don't get how their betrayal was the worst to the ADC crew.

[Cutty]

Clay: You think that plane was for you?

Shelli: Makes sense since I'm out here.

LOL. Yes Shelli, you are the only person who could possibly be outside on a nice summer day.

[Fatkat]

I'm hoping someone can help me out since I've been away on business for five days and can't keep up: What's the deal with the suggestions that Becky and Meg have a thing for Clay? Is that a real thing or just assumptions? I'm back now and would love to see any conversations that support it. Thanks.

Edited August 2, 2015 by Fatkat

[Callaphera]

Clay: You think that plane was for you?

Shelli: Makes sense since I'm out here.

LOL. Yes Shelli, you are the only person who could possibly be outside on a nice summer day.

 

And the only person in the area who has a name starting with S. Steve clearly doesn't count. Or, you know, anyone else at all. 

[LuvizBlind]

Yeah, I don't know how the voting will actually go.  My feeling is that The twins + Austin know one of them will be the replacement nominee should James use the Veto, and may be just telling James what he wants to hear until after the Veto Meeting.  

 

 

[JediDVguy]

It's not a bad question to ask. With the original Veto, it was possible for that to happen. It was why they changed it to a Golden Power of Veto near the end of BB3 and have kept it that way ever since.

The only difference between the original veto and the golden veto was that you couldn't use the original veto on yourself. :)

[Skittl1321]

The only difference between the original veto and the golden veto was that you couldn't use the original veto on yourself. :)

So there was no point in trying to win it if you were on the block?

But the person using it was still safe??

[blixie]

You could use the veto on anyone including yourself but if you were NOT on the block and you took someone off, you could be renommed. But I think they realized quickly how dumb that was, since no one would ever use it if they weren't also safe.

[kellog010]

I don't get how Liz tolerates Austin. He's always so clingy. He always has his paws on her like she's going to disappear. They are locked in a house for the summer cut off from society and he still he follows her around the house and never leaves her alone. It would drive me absolutely insane. Even if she was madly in love with him (which she's not) its too much! I can't even watch the feeds when they are the focus.

Edited August 3, 2015 by kellog010

[Donny Ketchum]

The only difference between the original veto and the golden veto was that you couldn't use the original veto on yourself. :)

The holder of the Veto was still vulnerable, though, if he or she used it.

[Newbietunes]

I don't get how Liz tolerates Austin. He's always so clingy. He always has his paws on her like she's going to disappear. They are locked in a house for the summer cut off from society and he still he follows her around the house and never leaves her alone.

 

 

 

I'm still having trouble telling which twin is which.  So that's how I do it,  If Austin is hanging around nearby, it's Liz.

[Turtle]

It seems like Shelli may actually stay if it's between her and Clay, although it's hard to predict with any certainty with these people. I think Vanessa thinks having Shelli around is good for her game, but she could just as easily decide that she can coast to an easy F4 with Liz, Julia, and Austin. Or an F5 with them and Steve, with Steve as her F2. I think Steve definitely votes with Vanessa but I cannot get a good read on what the twins and Austin will do. Maybe they realize they could be three votes in an alliance of six and join James, Meg, and Jackie to take over the house? Doubtful, but it might be a good move.

Either way, I think James should use the veto and put Vanessa up against Shelli. It almost guarantees that Shelli leaves, but either way a major player from the other alliance is gone. Although that presupposes that anyone in the house realizes Vanessa is a major player in that alliance, so ...

All this just to say that I've spent entirely too much time watching the feeds to be this clueless about what will happen at veto ceremony and on Thursday. I'm really enjoying it.

[njbarmaid]

I don't get how Liz tolerates Austin. He's always so clingy. He always has his paws on her like she's going to disappear. They are locked in a house for the summer cut off from society and he still he follows her around the house and never leaves her alone. It would drive me absolutely insane. Even if she was madly in love with him (which she's not) its too much! I can't even watch the feeds when they are the focus.

 

They are now in the HN room,Liz already asleep.  Austin lays down and lays his hand on her over the blanket, then adjusts to slide his hand under for skin contact.

 

I am so skeeved out.

[peachmangosteen]

Either way, I think James should use the veto and put Vanessa up against Shelli. It almost guarantees that Shelli leaves, but either way a major player from the other alliance is gone. Although that presupposes that anyone in the house realizes Vanessa is a major player in that alliance, so ...

 

How do they still not see that Vanessa has multiple alliances? Like it boggles my mind that these people are buying her bullshit. She's SO transparent! Not to mention the fact that she's nuts. I don't understand why everyone is so keen on working with her.

[blixie]

Haha for all my bitching about how different the twins look separately, now that they are together I have tougher time telling which is which, I still have it right 90% of the time though. Julia's nose is SUPER pointy way pointier than Liz's, and she is skinnier, when they're hair is up you can tell how different they are, otherwise it is tougher.

[peachmangosteen]

I can tell them apart, but if they're smiling I sometimes mix them up. Th only time they look similar imo is when they're smiling.

Edited August 3, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[blixie]

 

Like it boggles my mind that these people are buying her bullshit.

 

Well as much as I love Vanessa, it has nothing to do with her ability to bullshit and entirely to do with the ADC's willfull blindness/stupidity.  I think it's just easier this week to pretend like she doesn't have allies, give them time and I think they will refocus in on her, but raining on Slay is too fun this week. Of course then it will be too late, especially if any of her allies wine HOH. Part of me wants to see Jecky targeted next week, even though I know it is smarter for them to pick off ADC.

[Ceeg]

How do they still not see that Vanessa has multiple alliances? Like it boggles my mind that these people are buying her bullshit. She's SO transparent! Not to mention the fact that she's nuts. I don't understand why everyone is so keen on working with her.

The fact that Vanessa actually was willing to backdoor Austin kind of points to her not being aligned with him. Also, the entire week she was HOH, from the Veto onward, Austin/Liz stayed far away from her. They were in their own little bubble and didn't really talk to anyone but each other. Vanessa and Steve rarely socialize, other than little conversations here and there, and always alone.

I think Vanessa has done a pretty good job of convincing everyone that it was a three person alliance with Clay and Shelli, and then, post-nomination ceremony, the way Clelli acted toward her convinced everyone else that that alliance is over and done with. Plus, it helps Vanessa that even with Clelli broken up, there are still two huge pairs in Liz/Austin and Liz/Julia. Also, Jackie and Meg are just dumb at this game anyway and not super perceptive.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Ceeg

[Ceeg]

I think the thing that will shock probably everyone in the house is that Vanessa has a Final 2 deal with Steve.

[peachmangosteen]

Vanessa would raise so many alarm bells for me. She just comes off super transparent and fake. And she use SO many phrases that would be huge tells to me. And then she repeats those phrases about 100 times in one convo and it's like how is no one seeing it? 

 

 Part of me wants to see Jecky targeted next week ...

 

Yea, I'm torn. I mean I really can't stand Vanessa and I think she's the person currently with the biggest shot at winning so I want her to go to make the game more interesting, but part of me really wants to see John, Becky, and Steve get targeted now. I just can't with any of them, in particular John.

 

They all seem so sure next week is DE, which I don't blame them since it tends to be that week. I really thought it would be, too. I was surprised when Julie didn't announce it on Thursday.

Edited August 3, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Turtle]

How do they still not see that Vanessa has multiple alliances? Like it boggles my mind that these people are buying her bullshit. She's SO transparent! Not to mention the fact that she's nuts. I don't understand why everyone is so keen on working with her.

Yes! I am so confused about why they can't tell she is lying almost all of the time. Her fake crying? Her tendency to just keep talking and talking, usually in circles and usually contradicting herself? The fact that 80% of what she says later proves to be untrue? How can they not notice this??? James and Jackie have proven that they're not stupid or especially naive and it just boggles the mind that they believe that Vanessa is an easily manipulated victim in all of this. And that she's isolated or, as she calls it, "solo dolo."

[Donny Ketchum]

They all seem so sure next week is DE, which I don't blame them since it tends to be that week. I really thought it would be, too. I was surprised when Julie didn't announce it on Thursday.

I think it's because this Thursday is the final pre-jury boot.  The Double Evictions are typically during the jury phase.  So I think that one will be next Thursday rather than this one.

[peachmangosteen]

James and Jackie have proven that they're not stupid or especially naive and it just boggles the mind that they believe that Vanessa is an easily manipulated victim in all of this.

 

Exactly. Those two have proven they have some sense of what's happening, so I can't figure out why they don't see through Vanessa. Especially Jackie. But I think it's probably a combo of them currently having power and thinking it'll last forever (which happens to pretty much everyone when they get power lol) and them being so focused on Shelli that they have blinders on for everything else.

Edited August 3, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[pennben]

 

Vanessa would raise so many alarm bells for me. She just comes off super transparent and fake. And she use SO many phrases that would be huge tells to me. And then she repeats those phrases about 100 times in one convo and it's like how is no one seeing it?

 

I would like to think I would pick up on it, but I'm not sure I would.  One thing with Vanessa is that she is ALWAYS like that, whether she's telling the truth, a lie, a half-truth or a story of Jackie the Great when she was squire to Jackie last night.  I also thought she handled James pretty well up in the HoH before C/S were nommed and they had a deal with him: she can pull off the it's just a game thing well, as I think she means it given her background. 

 

ETA:  I also think they don't fully buy what she's selling, but see her as wounded and alone at this moment.  She was relatively straight about the Jason thing and they knew C/S were flat out lying.

Edited August 3, 2015 by pennben

[solomonhancock]

I don't think most of them "see" Vanessa.  When they finally do, it will be too late

[blixie]

Eh I still think James and Jackie are stupid, or at least not smart, what is worse is that James was ON to Vanessa, but he thinks he made a deal with her even though he just bounced a check himself with Slay. C'mon dude. IF I was being generous I could say that Jackie and James DO realize Vanessa is in charge and realize she is smarter than them, so they are hoping at some point to sub themselves in for her other allies much like Jecky wanted to be upgraded to Slay's. It's still dumb game play, but at least it's self interested, but misguided game play.

[Ceeg]

I don't think Jackie has that great of a sense of what's going on. Even yesterday (or maybe Friday) she was still harping about the Dark Moon alliance, and how she didn't understand why it got demolished after a few days. Jackie is smart, but I don't think she really understands the game and why certain moves are made.

[peachmangosteen]

One thing with Vanessa is that she is ALWAYS like that, whether she's telling the truth, a lie, a half-truth or a story of Jackie the Great when she was squire to Jackie last night.

 

That's a good point. And a lot of them seem to like her personality, so that's probably keeping them from considering her being a big fat liar. See, I am so damn annoyed by her personality that for that reason alone I would be gunning for her lol!

ETA: Jackie got such an up close and personal view of Vanessa's bullshit when they were HOH together. And for a minute it looked like she saw through it. But it was fleeting. I'm hoping it's just because they're all so focused on Shelli. But considering Shelli will most likely stay they'll probably continue to focus on her and Vanessa will slide by once again. Which sucks for me because Vanessa makes me insane.

Edited August 3, 2015 by peachmangosteen

[Pixel]

Sorry to interrupt, but can someone tell me what Pagonging is? I assume it's a Survivor reference, but I didn't watch that season.

[Donny Ketchum]

Sorry to interrupt, but can someone tell me what Pagonging is? I assume it's a Survivor reference, but I didn't watch that season.

It refers to the tribe Pagong from the original Borneo season of Survivor.  After they failed to get the concept of alliances, the remnants of the other tribe, Tagi, voted them out one at a time until only their members were left.  Since then, that term is used to refer to when one tribe (on Survivor) or one faction (on BB) votes the members of the other completely out, perhaps with a potential break to cannibalize themselves for one or two votes before continuing removing the outsiders, but most of the time just sticking with the plan.

[brisbydog]

Sorry to interrupt, but can someone tell me what Pagonging is? I assume it's a Survivor reference, but I didn't watch that season.

Way back on the first season of Survivor after the merge the tribe with superior numbers picked off the former Pagong tribe one by one until none were left. We've used the term Pagonging ever since to refer to the group with more people eliminating the weaker side

[Pixel]

Thanks! I just started watching BB last season so I'm catching up on terms. Having said that, James was the best thing I've seen in two seasons. That was beautiful. It's the first time I've seen an HOH make a firm decision, the right decision, and stick with it.

[blixie]

Ugh Slay planning their final campaign to James,and it's as sad as ever: we are awesome and you need us more than you need...other people. Kay Clay! They aren't willing to do the one thing that might save them both for ONE week, aka give up Sixth Sense and Vanessa, and secondarily they aren't willing to give up the next too peopel they have dirt on Jecky. These two assholes want to stay w/o sacrificing a damn thing. Ha.

[pennben]

Oh my god, in rehearsing with Clay, Shelli just said that, among other things, they tell James this is his chance to show loyalty to them by taking one off the block and getting someone else out!  Then they'll all move forward together.

Edited August 3, 2015 by pennben

[backformore]

I haven't really liked James until now, But tonight I liked the way he played the game.  

Clay and Shelli have been acting like they are the king and queen, and others have been bowing down to them  as though they had special status.  They are PISSED because James has the nerve to treat them the way they have treated everyone else. 

[JediDVguy]

The holder of the Veto was still vulnerable, though, if he or she used it.

Nah, the veto holder has always been safe. Otherwise Gerry would have been up and out week one of season 3. I'm 100% certain that the only difference is that a golden veto holder could use the power on themselves.

ETA: Just rewatched the introduction of the veto in S3 and Lisa definitely says "don't worry -- the veto holder cannot be nominated."

Edited August 3, 2015 by JediDVguy

[MKL122788]

Way back on the first season of Survivor after the merge the tribe with superior numbers picked off the former Pagong tribe one by one until none were left. We've used the term Pagonging ever since to refer to the group with more people eliminating the weaker side

Yes and no.

 

They merged at 5-5. Richard Hatch had Kelly/Sue/Rudy for a foursome alliance from Tagi. They voted out what was seen as the other leader(Gretchen of Pagong) at the merge with 4 votes. Many talking heads ensued the next day, indicating that the other members of Gretchen's tribe thought it was fishy that she got four votes. However, at the next tribal, all 9 votes went to Pagong due to a feud between Gervase and Greg, showing they didn't really think much of it. The last 3 were truly Pagong'd. That being said, Richard had wanted to get out Kelly at F6 instead of Colleen, but she won immunity, resulting in Colleen's exit. The final 5 members were all Tagi. I wonder what name we would've had for it if it wasn't a straight elimination of the other side. I don't think it happened again until Thailand, and I would hate to have to say everyone got SOOK JAI'D. Oh god...the horror. Thank you for winning immunity, Wigglesworth.

 

That season could've been humorously different if Kelly keeps her vote for Richard at F4 instead of Sue and Richard goes home by previous votes. Likely, Rudy still goes out third and Kelly beats Sue in a landslide. Still, trying to imagine a world where Survivor doesn't have the original brainchild of an alliance win the inaugural season smells like the potential for Survivor to not become the show it has.

 

Anyway, I digress. It is harder to Pagong in Big Brother due to the way nominations and voting work.

 

I haven't really been thinking about it too much until now, but when was the last time we got through 6 HoH competitions, BoB or not, and ended up only having 3 heads of household? Trying to imagine anyone outside of Vanessa, James, or Shelli winning any of these competitions that are based mostly on endurance, will power, or just about anything that requires skill is pretty hard.

[bobthefrog]

Steve is really pissed off about what Clay is doing (asking to get voted out for Shelli). He went on a rant to the cameras about it. He even apologized on Clay's behalf to all the fans who applied and had their spot taken by someone who doesn't care about being there.

[TimWil]

I've decided I want the final three to be Vanessa, James and John. And not just because they could be dubbed the VaJayJays.

[Kromm]

Steve is really pissed off about what Clay is doing (asking to get voted out for Shelli). He went on a rant to the cameras about it. He even apologized on Clay's behalf to all the fans who applied and had their spot taken by someone who doesn't care about being there.

Clay has every right to ask that. Because then the fools are the people who ALLOW it to happen--if it comes to fruition and he gets his way I mean.

 

It should be an unofficial rule: if someone asks to be voted out for someone else, then deny them. Always. The "punishment" for doing something that stupid should be to have to wave goodbye to the person you insisted you could save.

[Maverick]

Steve is really pissed off about what Clay is doing (asking to get voted out for Shelli). He went on a rant to the cameras about it. He even apologized on Clay's behalf to all the fans who applied and had their spot taken by someone who doesn't care about being there.

 

 Imagine his reaction if he knew Clay's alternate plan was to get Steve voted out.

 

 I'm sorry, but Steve's got a really creepy vibe sometimes.  I get that he had good reason to be angry at Becky, but that DR about her losing was WAY over the top.  I've noticed he has a very crazy/intense look sometimes.  I can totally see how some of them aren't comfortable around him.  His awkwardness doesn't help but I think some of them are picking up some other kind of strange vibe from him.

 

 In other news, James was in the military?   For real?  Has he mentioned that before in any detail?

[Artsda]

James is an Army vet. He served 6 years, he joined at 18.

Edited August 3, 2015 by Artsda

[TimWil]

He did mention it in pre-show interviews. He said that and working as a correction officer (?) would be a plus.

[Cutty]

Steve is right. People would kill for this opportunity, but Clay is just another dumbass recruit who has been handed everything on a silver platter his entire life. Not a surprise he has no qualms about pissing this away.

[Ceeg]

James/Jackie having a conversation about Vanessa and how they don't trust her, because they know she's the one who told Clelli they were going on the block. Because there's no way it could have been either of them, Meg, or Becky.

 

I know it's a strategy that can get you far in the game, but the rats are literally the worst kind of player to watch.

[pennben]

James/Jackie are questioning Vanessa's truthfulness (not to her, amongst themselves), saying that she's the only one that would have tipped off C/S they were on the block before it happened.  They KNOW Becky wouldn't have done that:)

Edited August 3, 2015 by pennben

[Artsda]

Jason needed the money more Shelli!

Edited August 3, 2015 by Artsda

[Pixel]

I've decided I want the final three to be Vanessa, James and John. And not just because they could be dubbed the VaJayJays.

Honestly? This is reason enough for me.

[Cutty]

I said this from the beginning but the only chance Clelli had this week was blowing up Vanessa's game and getting her on the block. As crazy as it sounds they should have listened to Becky.

Thinking James would take out a non-entity like Steve after he gave up 5k and a trip is so silly it's offensive to even pitch that. But these are the same people who asked JMac to not use the veto on himself. Their delusions know no bounds.