Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[HeimrArnadalr]

Yeah, at this point I can't imagine [the Sorcerer] as anybody but Merlin. 

Calling it now: the Sorcerer will be Dr. Seuss. The reason the Apprentice looks so old is because he used to be a certain cat, and although the Sorcerer made him human, he still retains his whiskers. Robin's line from 4x08 about "why would a cat want a hat" is setup for this.

 

4B, of course, will take place on Mulberry Street, the land inside the hat. Our heroes and Regina will face off against the Sorcerer's dastardly minions, which include Thing 1, Thing 2, and Sam-I-Am.

[Dani-Ellie]

But Regina doesn't like green eggs and ham! ;)

[kili]

But Regina doesn't like green eggs and ham! ;)

 

I'll bet a buck that Regina will get Henry, Robin, Roland and a closet full of Jimmy Choos and suddenly decides that she does not yet have her happy ending - she will not have her happy ending until Oobleck falls from the sky. She will make it happen. Anyone who objects to being pummelled by green goo falling from the sky will clearly be a villain.

 

As the world is smothered in goop, Regina and Robin will  find themselves trapped in the Crypt of Love. They will once again Hop on Pop to find the Wocket in Robin's Pocket.

Edited November 19, 2014 by kili

[MDKNIGHT]

 

I don't want Mirror to be smashed. In fact, I want Mirror to have its own radio advice show where the characters can call in with their problems, and have Mirror give them "unpolished" truth in return.

I totally agree.  How much more fun would Emilie's appearances be if she were playing the Mirror?   I enjoyed the few minutes she was the mirror way more than anything else she's done even the time she hung out with Mulan which is now my second favorite.  Everytime she yammers on propping Rumple she makes me hate her.  Sydney could be her cohost/sidekick.  He's used to being bossed around by a woman.  They've established that the radio shows in SB are kind of wierd.  Wasn't there news of shinanigans involving Rip Van Winkle?  Does anybody remember the exact thing? 

[MelsW]

They've established that the radio shows in SB are kind of wierd.  Wasn't there news of shinanigans involving Rip Van Winkle?  Does anybody remember the exact thing? 

 

The radio host said that Rip Van Winkle called in looking for "something classic to wake up to."

[ABitOFluff]

Hi there. I've been lurking here for awhile, enjoying all your comments, and finally decided to join in.

 

For me, the most satisfying way Emma learns about Hook's heart would be for her to finally listen to his voicemail! Hey, I know when I've been slammed at work, I often forget to check my messages for days, but I do get around to it. Listening to his heartfelt confession and learning of Rumple's plans would pretty much clue her in to why the guy might be acting a little off. I also want a scene in which she kicks down the door of Gold's shop and yells, "Give me back my boyfriend's heart NOW!" (Or alternately, "Give my boyfriend back his heart NOW!" Fllowed by a head butt.)

Edited November 22, 2014 by ABitOFluff

[PixiePaws1]

I wonder if Henry hears Killian's heartbeat in Gold's shop. He was there when Elsa tried to find Anna using the shepherd's crook and heard that heartbeat. He may report to Emma thinking it could be Anna's heart or if he checks it out himself, who knows what might happen.

I also believe DQ lied to Gold. Do you think she wants ALL non magical and other magical beings gone except herself and her 'sisters" or might she be tricking Gold into releasing all the magical beings from the hat?

Edited November 22, 2014 by PixiePaws1

[YaddaYadda]

I also believe DQ lied to Gold.

 

I didn't realize that having the hat for what seemed to be a day to maybe a week meant that she had the hat for a very long time and studied it and knows exactly what the hat needs.  How convenient that it's Hook's heart that's needed.  DQ seems to be as good as manipulating people as Rumple is.  I'm sort of hoping Emma blasts Rumple to hell like she did Henry because it would be very satisfying since he can't be killed.

[retrograde]

For me, the most satisfying way Emma learns about Hook's heart would be for her to finally listen to his voicemail! 

Surely Rumple wiped the message. I can't see why he wouldn't have.

[OnceUponAJen]

Rather than wiping the message, he may have just hidden the phone. No telling!

[KAOS Agent]

How could he wipe the message? It's not stored on the physical phone. Magic can do a lot, but I don't see Rumpel being able to find and magically alter the server storing that message. If you call me and leave me a voice mail, the message not only shows up on my phone, but I get a voice to text version on my e-mail as well as access to the original recording in the e-mail. 

[ABitOFluff]

How could he wipe the message? It's not stored on the physical phone. Magic can do a lot, but I don't see Rumpel being able to find and magically alter the server storing that message. If you call me and leave me a voice mail, the message not only shows up on my phone, but I get a voice to text version on my e-mail as well as access to the original recording in the e-mail. 

Exactly. The server is here in the non-magical world. Maybe Rumple does still have the phone or even destroyed it, Still, Emma could notice the phone missing and ask David to borrow his to check her messages.

[RadioGirl27]

I hope Emma listen to the message. It was a beautiful scene and it would be a shame if Emma never listen to it. But, with this writers, I'm afraid it would end up in the pile of great character moments without pay off, and instead we would get another round of crypt sex.

 

I would love it if Emma realised all by herself that Hook doesn't have his heart, because she feels that there is something off with him. But I think Belle is going to have some role in all this. She is going to have an important role in the winter finale, so maybe it's her who finds about the heart and tells Emma.

[Shanna Marie]

For me, the most satisfying way Emma learns about Hook's heart would be for her to finally listen to his voicemail!

Yeah, it would be natural if she's lost her phone for her to use someone else's phone to dial into the server and check her messages, since she'd know she's not getting calls. And if Hook is making himself scarce, she might want to check messages to see if she's missed any calls from him. If she has AT&T, even deleting a message doesn't really delete it anymore. You can still get to a deleted message for a certain amount of time, and I don't think Rumple's magic can reach the server outside Storybrooke. I also wonder how up-to-date his technology download is. Storybrooke is several years (at least) behind the rest of the world, so Rumple may have adapted, but does he really grasp all that technology stuff?

 

Though I kind of want her to hear that message after she already knows something is wrong with Hook or maybe even while she's mad at him about the way he's acting.

[Camera One]

I wonder if it's Chekhov's voicemail... but remember, it is "Once Upon a Time" so it might be the voicemail that no one mentions again.

 

Rumple's magic extends as far as A&E wants it to.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Camera One

[YaddaYadda]

it is "Once Upon a Time" so it might be the voicemail that no one mentions again.

 

It would really too bad if that happened.  It was a really good scene and important in the grand scheme of things and it sucks that the audience would be the only ones who know about this.  I mean talk about pulling your own heart out.

[Camera One]

The most direct point of that scene is to tell the viewers that Hook regrets what he did and is willing to come clean.  They're dropped more important character moments and points before.  But since the writers love Emma/Hook, at least there will be a chance Emma might get to hear it, though who knows with them.  Maybe it will be a deleted scene we can watch on Good Morning America.

[KAOS Agent]

The Shattered Sight spell would explain everyone including Hook acting off. It appeared to me that Ingrid cast the curse immediately following the "ribboning" of Elsa and Emma, so it seems like everyone will start acting strange pretty quickly. I think having to deal with a town that's under a spell meant to make them tear each other apart will be quite enough for her to worry about without expecting her to notice that her boyfriend, who is also under the curse, is acting stranger than anyone else.

 

I do think she either needs to hear that voicemail or hear Hook express those same sentiments to her in person because it is something she needs to know about. Not the blackmail plot explicitly, but the reason Hook chose to make that move in the first place and his self doubt and self loathing.

[Camera One]

Or they'll go the predictable route and use the usual order: X finds out the truth and gets mad at Y, Y almost dies, all is forgiven.

[YaddaYadda]

It appeared to me that Ingrid cast the curse immediately following the "ribboning" of Elsa and Emma, so it seems like everyone will start acting strange pretty quickly.

 

She did cast the spell as soon as Rumple was gone.  From the preview, it seems the curse hits at sundown, but who knows. 

 

 

 

Or they'll go the predictable route and use the usual order: X finds out the truth and gets mad at Y, Y almost dies, all is forgiven.

Most plausible explanation, but I don't think it's that simple.  I also think they set up Emma to be very understanding of her idiot boyfriend. 

Edited November 23, 2014 by YaddaYadda

[ABitOFluff]

Oops, apologies for spectuating in the wrong post.

 

I'm glad others agree about the voicemail. It was one of the highlights for me this season. I, too, expect tons of S to go down before Emma reailises anything about Killian's heart. But it would still be a great payoff for her to hear it. It's totally possible.

 

Another variation on the heart-getting-back scene: "Give me back my boyfriend's heart!...I mean, give Killian back his heart, now!"

 

"Love, my heart IS your's."

 

That said, I still want to see Emma nut Rumple in the noggin before he can weasel his way out of it. "Well, dearie OW!"

Edited November 23, 2014 by ABitOFluff

[retrograde]

I understand the practicalities of deleting a voice message, but... this is Once Upon a Time. I'd be shocked if the writers put more thought into it than "Rumple gets her phone, uses magic to delete the message." Or, y'know, he could have just manually deleted the message. Sure it would still probably exist out there somewhere, but Emma would then need a reason to go trawling through her old messages. Anyway, maybe I'll end up eating my hat on this one, but I would put money on us never hearing the voice message again.

[KAOS Agent]

I don't know. I kind of like the idea of the technology of the Land Without Magic defeating Rumpel. His arrogance and power is just annoying. I'd like to see his plans go down in flames and his all powerful ass handed to him due to information from a non-magical thing like a mobile phone. 

[retrograde]

I agree it could be cool, I just don't think they'll go there. The hand/blackmail stuff is almost moot now (I mean, I shouldn't be, but this show rarely dwells, gotta keep that plot plot plot chugging along). It's all about the stolen heart now, and I think if there's a big revelation to be had, it will be Emma finding out about that.

[HoodlumSheep]

I don't know. I kind of like the idea of the technology of the Land Without Magic defeating Rumpel. His arrogance and power is just annoying. I'd like to see his plans go down in flames and his all powerful ass handed to him due to information from a non-magical thing like a mobile phone.

I would like this to happen too. Rumple is getting too cocky for his own good. I could totally see him just tossing the phone somewhere semi-hidden, without deleting the message, thinking no one would find it/look for it. Which I find a little ironic, because look at what happened when Killy got a little too cocky and pushed his luck. Rumple screwed him over. So maybe if we're lucky, Rumple will meet the same fate.

[kili]

Obviously one of the reasons that the Snow Queen becomes a foster mother is to come into contact with Emma. I wonder if another reason is to collect mirror shards. She said that it would take a lifetime to collect the magic required to cast the spell of Shattered Sight. She uses her mirror which had reflected her own pain and non-acceptance for years. I imagine the mirrors in many foster care homes reflect the same pain and loneliness she felt.  She could have been collecting that pain for years.

[Camera One]

Rumple is getting too cocky for his own good. I could totally see him just tossing the phone somewhere semi-hidden, without deleting the message, thinking no one would find it/look for it.

 

Another hanging plot point is the surveillance video tape from the jail showing him killing Zelena.  Now, if he used his magic to actually remix the magnetic coding on the betamax, then the evidence is lost.  But if he just used a glamour spell on the characters watching, and their perception is altered to not see Rumple and only Zelena, then maybe when Rumple's magic dies, the videotape will resurface.  I'm with retrograde, though... I'm not holding my breath.

[YaddaYadda]

Everything that's done with magic seems rather final.  The only reason I'm still holding out hope for Hook's message is basically because I'm hoping that Rumple just decided to keep Emma's phone.  If Emma thinks she's lost her phone, then she'd get a new one with a new number.  He can just put the one he has in the safe next to the hat, the heart, the dagger, you know, a list of mounting evidence against his deceit. 

 

Other option, someone (Belle) overheard the confession.  Hook didn't break into the shop, he just walked in it, so I'm guessing it was open and if it was open, someone could have been in the back, though Belle was babysitting all night.

 

Yeah, I don't know.

[Camera One]

someone could have been in the back, though Belle was babysitting all night.

 

Two episodes later, Granny sends some "I know what you did last week" notes.  

Edited November 23, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Another hanging plot point is the surveillance video tape from the jail showing him killing Zelena. Now, if he used his magic to actually remix the magnetic coding on the betamax, then the evidence is lost. But if he just used a glamour spell on the characters watching, and their perception is altered to not see Rumple and only Zelena, then maybe when Rumple's magic dies, the videotape will resurface. I'm with retrograde, though... I'm not holding my breath.

I doubt that because in 4x04 we saw Rumple supposedly editing the tape that showed Hook and the Apprentice. That's assuming he wasn't faking it.

I'd love for Rumple's murder of Zelena to be exposed, not knowing this show it'll never be mentioned again. It would interfere with the writers' agenda to keep Big Bads disposable and unimportant.

Edited November 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

One way a lot of things could come out is if Belle manages to get the real dagger and indulges in a truth-telling session, even if it's just to find out what he used the fake dagger to make her into an alibi about. Was there anything where her using the fake dagger to make him tell the truth or to prove that he couldn't have done something allowed him to get away with something? If I were her, that's what I'd be most angry about. She didn't want the dagger in the first place, but he made her take it, so the fact that she didn't have the real dagger is a betrayal that might have been something of a relief if it had never been used. It's the fact that whenever he needed to lie or cover up something, he used her having the dagger to cover himself, which made her like an accessory to his crimes. That's the betrayal, that in a sense he made her into a liar.

[KingOfHearts]

Sadly I doubt there would be little consequence if everyone found out about Zelena's cause of death. They'd just be irritated, but hardly shocked. Regina would probably just use it as an excuse to hate on Rumple, not like she legitimately cared about her sister. Belle would be miffed for all of five minutes.

It's a shame how botched up Zelena's character was. Her demise was extremely lame.

Edited November 23, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

With this latest episode, Rumple's list of crimes have piled up to the point where the Zelena thing is old news.  The characters can only really react to one thing at a time anyway and the rest will be crumbs.  

 

I think they will have Rumple's magic sucked into the Hat, and he will be shunned by all in the first half of 4B while dealing with his lack of magic, and that will be how they get us to feel from his perspective again (maybe a flashback to the first few days after Bae fell through the portal showing how he had second thoughts and almost gave up his magic but decided not to in the last moment).  And then at the end of 4B, he will step up and make a sacrifice which will make Belle and Emma think twice and they will give him a second chance.  

 

Meanwhile, the focus of the show will go back to Regina, since it always does in the second half of the season.  Look for Charming to stand around, Snow and Henry to get further character assassination propping of Regina, while Emma's screentime will revolve around her relationship with Hook and getting over how he wasn't able to be honest in 4A until it was too late.

Edited November 23, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

I'm concerned about 4B. The first halves of the seasons have been slower and more centered on the main plot (Team Princess, Neverland), while the latter halves have been random as all get out, with incongruent flashbacks. I'm fine with Regina, but not with OQ or the close-ups of her tears... which the B sections have given us.

[Jul 68]

And now for something completely different....

[Camera One]

I doubt it, since they would need to buy the rights to those characters.  And the whole premise of stories for the show is to use characters that viewers know like Bo Peep or the Disney lineup, and then put a "spin" on them, so that wouldn't work for brand new created characters no one has ever heard of.  

[Jul 68]

I was thinking that they could have optioned the rights already and would use the show as a method of promoting the series, seeing as she's such a beloved Lost co-star. They could even tap her for that portion of the story to continue their love affair with the Lost cast on this show.

[Rumsy4]

I agree with Camera One. The very nature of the Show, and it's biggest draw, hinges on using familiar stories culled from fairy tales, and other literature, and give it a twist. I doubt A&E would use a new and obscure children's book in their Show, nor do I think they have that kind of a close relationship with Lilly. Frankly, Evangeline Lilly has moved beyond OUAT and A&E.

[Camera One]

They could, I suppose, but their main goal still has to be the show and its success.  It's one thing to cast their favorite actors but it's another to go out of their way to write in stories no one has ever heard of into the storylines.  A&E likes to go big and ostentatious (dare I say bold and audacious), so I would expect their interest for future storylines lie with well-known material, as it has thus far.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Camera One

[retrograde]

Speaking of familiar characters, I'm pretty curious where they plan to go for villains/new characters/new worlds going forward. They have relied on "big names" the last three arcs

(and have some coming next half-season)

leveraging Peter Pan, Wizard of Oz/Wicked, and Frozen, and a lot of the other big Disney franchises have been covered within the town's characters. What else is of that level of fame? Unless the want to start dipping their toes into more of the animal stories....

[Camera One]

That's the other scary thing in terms of their storytelling, since the number of possible well-known stories and usable villains goes down with every season.  That's why people keep bringing Maleficient back up, since she was a big one they glossed over.  Villains like the one from "Princess and the Frog" or "The Emperor's New Groove" might have story potential, but they wouldn't draw in the hype.  They also used Jafar in the Wonderland series (though they could still bring him back).  

 

I think they will need to move into the animal stories.  Scar from The Lion King is the remaining "big" 1990s animated movie they haven't touched at all. I can see them using Star Wars now that it's Disney property.  They could always "twist" another character into a villain, like making Mary Poppins evil à la Peter Pan.  

[retrograde]

They also used Jafar in the Wonderland series (though they could still bring him back).  

I have actually wondered if they will see if Will proves to be popular, then maybe bring in some more Wonderland characters. Jafar would also be a way to bring in some characters from Aladdin, which I'd be down with. 

[Camera One]

Yeah, they haven't touched Aladdin, Jasmine, etc. yet, so they can mine that for a half-season.  They could even throw Sidney into the storyline for a mash-up about Genies.  The danger is when they use characters for a one-off like Rapunzel or Cinderella, so it limits their ability to expand their backstory for a complete half-season.  

[Curio]

I was listening to an interview with Evangeline Lilly today, and it seems that she has written a book that is to be the start of a series of modern fairy tales for children called The Squickerwonkers.

I'm sorry, but was that really the best name she could come up with? How do you even pronounce that? Unless the name is supposed to be intentionally silly sounding...

 

I have actually wondered if they will see if Will proves to be popular, then maybe bring in some more Wonderland characters. Jafar would also be a way to bring in some characters from Aladdin, which I'd be down with.

I'm actually thinking the whole reason they brought Will on in the first place is because they already have some long-term Jafar/Aladdin plans in the works. Obviously, they can't do anything with that storyline right now because it's the Frozen show, but it's smart that the writers decided to bring Will in well before any Agrabah storyline plays out so that he becomes integrated with the Storybrooke cast more. It reminds me a bit of when they brought Hook on in Season 2, but they didn't touch the Neverland mythology until Season 3.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Curio

[YaddaYadda]

They still barely touched the Neverland mythology. It was incredibly disappointing.

[KAOS Agent]

I think they were bringing Will in for a 4A story that changed to the 4B story because they got the go ahead for Frozen. It would at least explain his complete and utter uselessness in the story so far.

 

As for Maleficent, I just picture her in Nazgûl form hanging out under the library silently seething. She'll come out once the ring of power shows up in another random mansion that Belle discovers on her next hike.

[Camera One]

They still barely touched the Neverland mythology. It was incredibly disappointing.

 

Nor Oz.  "Frozen" is the first time they've really delved into a half-season's theme mythology in actual depth.

[KingOfHearts]

I'd like to see Dracula and maybe other characters from the Land Without Color. Perhaps they could touch on Sleepy Hollow or Rip Van Winkle. I don't mind more obscure characters if there's a big plot that centers around the show as a whole.

They'll probably stick with focusing on one franchise every arc, but there's a few problems for that. For one, if you touch on a character for a single episode and botch it, then it doesn't ruin the whole set. Contrarily if you choose a franchise then totally demolish it week after week, the show itself suffers. (Oz. Self-explanatory.)

As far as animal stories go, I'm game. I want them to tie Hamlet and Lion King together. (Since the movie is based off the play) Plus, human Scar would look awesome with this casting department.

[Jul 68]

There are still many non-animal stories from the Brothers Grimm (and some where the animal can easily be changed to human, for example The Wolf and the Seven Young Goats). They briefly touched, ever so lightly, on The Spinner Sisters in one of Rumple's fairybacks. Others that I can think of are The Seven Ravens, Mother Hulda, and the Old Woman in the Wood.

[Camera One]

It's two episodes before the 4A finale... as a non-spoiler-ite, I'm on pins and needles waiting to find out whether the deus ex machina to break the Shattered Sight problem will arise in the final episode or the very end of the second-to-last episode.  

 

Why isn't Rumple worried about it?  Wouldn't he be affected as well?  Or is he immune?

 

Considering the only people who *won't* be affected will be Emma and Elsa, I'm assuming one of them will happen upon the deus ex machina.  In 3A, Gold revealed the Black Fairy otherwise known as the Contrivance Fairy's wand in the half-season final episode.  In 3B, everyone "remembered" the pendant which was info provided by Glinda otherwise known as The Dummy with an added twist of Regina suddenly having the Light Magic deep within her to get that said pendant, and both of those occurred within the last two episodes of the arc, if the Going-back-to-time plot is separated out.

Edited November 24, 2014 by Camera One