Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Amerilla]

As someone who hasn't seen Frozen and doesn't really care to see Frozen, I find myself getting frustrated with the idea that they're devoting a half a season or more to what feels like a pretty blatent marketing tie in. I would like to think they'll work to make the characters understandable and compelling for those of us....but the recent season does not inspire confidence.

ITA, Wandering1 - Robin is my fave among the current supporting characters and Sean is adorbs

[Camera One]

I wonder if Arendelle is another realm completely, or if it's just another kingdom in the Enchanted Forest.  Since that would make a big difference in how many of the main characters' past can be tied to the Frozen one, which is key.  Rumple will obviously have a bond with Elsa/Frozen.  Hook could as well, since he travelled widely and Arendelle had a large harbor.  The problem is that still shuts out Snow, Charming and Emma, though I guess whatever connection Hook has will be part of Emma's storyline.  Regina will presumably be kept busy with Robin/Marion, so maybe Snow/Charming will be used as props for that.  I suppose that would be akin to 3A, where Rumple and Hook had the connection with Peter Pan, and then in 3B, Regina had the connection to Zelena.  

Edited June 29, 2014 by Camera One

[KingOfHearts]

Arendelle sounds like an Enchanted Forest kingdom. It's only referenced as a kingdom in the movie, not a realm. There were other kingdoms whose diplomats were visiting Arendelle at the time of Elsa's coronation. It may not have been well known in the fairy tale days of Once because it was closed off for a long time.

 

I'm still not sure of the time period when Frozen took place. If Anna and Elsa are trapped in stasis via urns, it's possible Frozen happened many years ago. I hope it's not like, "Anna and Kristoff have been in Storybrooke the whole time!" That would be Lost-y.

Edited June 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

I hope it's not like, "Anna and Kristoff have been in Storybrooke the whole time!" That would be Lost-y.

They were friends with Johanna and now they're evil.

[KingOfHearts]

They were friends with Johanna and now they're evil.

 

Anna: "You know, I was a child expert back in our land."

Snow: "Great! Can you be Neal's nanny? He really needs a babysitter."

Anna: "Sure! And remember - I'm definitely NOT evil."

Snow: "I don't know what I'd do without you, Anna!"

Edited June 29, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Wandering1]

Exactly. If we're doing this, I want to emerge out of it a Regina who's finally put on her big girl pants and accepted some responsibility for her own actions and gained some actual self-awareness that sticks. And maybe some actual remorse so I can start believing this redemption story they're trying so hard to sell us.

3B showed Regina not only accepting responsibility but stepping up and making a change. Shame some other characters regressed so much in 3B.

[tv echo]

The difference (between messing around with classic fairy tales as portrayed in Disney movies and messing around with Frozen) is that the previous Disney princess movies are all in the past, but a Frozen 2 movie will be in the future.  They won't want to screw up their new franchise by damaging Elsa's popularity.

 

A natural storyline for Frozen 2 would be giving Elsa a love interest.  I can see Disney setting up a back story for that in this TV show, leading up to and building anticipation for the new movie.  Cross-marketing between TV and movies seems to be the thing nowadays.

Edited June 29, 2014 by tv echo

[Serena]

I'm thinking/hoping they refrain from giving Elsa a love interest, since part of the interest in her was that she was one of the few Disney Princesses without one.

[myril]

Don't think that what they're going to do with the characters of Frozen in the show here has to have any impact on any future, possible sequel of Frozen. I am not even sold yet that there will be a Frozen 2 to movie theater, regardless that Frozen is bringing that much money at the moment, they will still have to come up with a good story, one they think is good enough to make it in the theaters. At the moment they're rather busy with other things, and with taking Frozen to stage. If there will be a sequel it might take a while, some years, and whatever they do with the characters on the show will not be of much use for any marketing for that, People might pretty much have forgotten by then whatever they do on the show.

 

If they screw up Elsa's character on the show I doubt it will damage the Frozen franchise, one still can say that was the screw up of the showrunners,their sad twist on it, and true canon, the original story is what the movie told, and then move on. After all Once is seen as the show taking a different view on tales anyway, so one can always argue that was their view on things. After all they killed Pan, they took Mulan pretty much out of any of her movie story, and the Evil Queen is as far away from any version of the Evil Queen, Disney or otherwise, as can be. I highly doubt that will keep anyone in Disney from telling a different story of these characters, Pan, Mulan or whoever ever, nor has it undone any of the movies. Okay, Elsa is a bit fresher in the Disney universe, but doesn't change the principle, that Once has some unique take on tales, their very own take. It can damage though Once quite a lot if people get angry about what they make of Elsa.

 

Different from Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D Once doesn't directly tie into the movies of the fairy tales, it uses the characters, motifs, gets inspiration, sometimes just makes use of references, but it doesn't tell the sequel or prequel or anything between of the stories as seen in the movies or in other places, it has its on take on things, it's independent of the rest of the Disney universe in this. SHIELD on the other hand is an integrated part of the Marvel Movie Universe.

Edited June 29, 2014 by katusch

[Wandering1]

As someone who hasn't seen Frozen and doesn't really care to see Frozen, I find myself getting frustrated with the idea that they're devoting a half a season or more to what feels like a pretty blatent marketing tie in. I would like to think they'll work to make the characters understandable and compelling for those of us....but the recent season does not inspire confidence.

ITA, Wandering1 - Robin is my fave among the current supporting characters and Sean is adorbs

Robin has kind of a quiet strength. I just love all his scenes.

[Dianthus]

I think, as the only truly reformed member of the show's ex-villain club, Hook should take Regina aside and give her the verbal B!tch-slapping she so richly deserves. Perhaps even set her a challenge along the lines of: I got what I wanted and I (mostly) played fair to do it. Surely you wouldn't let yourself be bested by a simpering, love-struck fool such as I. Appeal to her vanity and wounded pride. That's the way you talk her around.

I really don't like the idea of Regina and Robin as endgame. Srsly?

[stealinghome]

Yeah, Regina and Robin have okay chemistry but nothing special, and he's just so...bland.

 

My fervent hope is that the writers have seen this, use bringing Marian back as an excuse to let Robin and Marian go off into the sunset, and give Regina a love interest that's worthier of her (played by someone with whom Lana Parrilla has more chemistry). But I'm 99% sure that ain't happening.

[Wandering1]

Robin is a great fit for Regina. He is a grey character. He knows who she was and who she is trying to become. Not even the BBC version of Robin Hood kept him with Marian, so I don't expect OUAT to.

I think, as the only truly reformed member of the show's ex-villain club, Hook should take Regina aside and give her the verbal B!tch-slapping she so richly deserves. Perhaps even set her a challenge along the lines of: I got what I wanted and I (mostly) played fair to do it. Surely you wouldn't let yourself be bested by a simpering, love-struck fool such as I. Appeal to her vanity and wounded pride. That's the way you talk her around.

I really don't like the idea of Regina and Robin as endgame. Srsly?

Hook hasn't changed at all so I hope he just stays away from Regina, he doesn't have anything he can say to her.

[Rumsy4]

 

Hook hasn't changed at all so I hope he just stays away from Regina, he doesn't have anything he can say to her.

 

Could you elaborate on that? Preferably on the Hook thread. Thanks.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Robin is a great fit for Regina. He is a grey character. He knows who she was and who she is trying to become. Not even the BBC version of Robin Hood kept him with Marian, so I don't expect OUAT to.

 

He doesn't know completely who she is but he's about to find out.  I am not familiar with what the BBC version did, but not keeping him with Marian is one thing, putting him with the person who split him from Marian and made Roland motherless is something different.

[BoPeeps]

the trick, as usual, will be whether the writing can sustain and keep these curiosity watchers.

 

Totally agree. And also, as mentioned above, this is going to be a more difficult task for the writers because they are going to be dealing with new viewers (the ones looking specifically for uber popular Elsa) and not the old timers who tune in for the more traditionally known fairytales and freak-outs! Little girls in love with Elsa are possibly going to be turned way off if their Elsa isn't a darling. And parents of said little girls might be a tad annoyed that the beloved character is giving their own little princesses anxiety.

 

It wouldn't sit well with the bean counters to have a lot of ticked off parents!

 

But, I am sure ABC has considered a lot of these angles. They wouldn't eagerly approve something that they thought would cut into their profits. I also hope they maintain a more hands (mostly) off of the writers about Elsa's possible darker edges.

 

It won't be long before we are teased to death about the upcoming shoots.

 

Other speculation:  I am very hopefully dug in deep in the *Hunt for The Jolly Roger* camp. Yes, it was heartfelt and sentimentally wonderful that Hook sacrificed his ship to get Emma home, but I think the possibilities for raucous action adventures involving the ship will be too tempting to just domesticate Hook and company to enjoying a afternoon sail on some local boat! Henry is of an age to get involved in adventure, and PLEASE let him go back to EF! Emma might feel the need to do something BIG for Hook, now, because she *lurves* his leather clad booty (grin), and indeed, the *who* involved in the bean trading plot is ripe for flashbacks as well as present day drama. So many possibilities...(check out the SPOILER section)

 

Marian =Not really Marian. Hmmm.  Could be the ONLY way out of a very sticky and potentially ugly situation/triangle they have created. But they better not mess too much with little Roland. That would be inforgivable.

Though I hope she is gone for good, Zelena without the dagger could be mildly entertaining if they could just put a muzzle on her and cover the scenery. (She was a habitually heavy chewer!) And Rumple will need some lasting motivation to be Dark One Redux. Killing Zelena once just may not be satisfying enough.

 

Snow vs Hook. I think the oh so very clever and hilariously witty Real Husbands blog has fed into the Snow hates Hook theme when in the show it just isn't so. They have their baby Neal (SMH) and though she really didn't know much about Neal at all, the writers have given enough good lip service to the memory of *heroic* Neal to last the next four, three, two, one years. Hook saved her daughter, has already saved David's life and was instrumental in getting things straightened out for old Bandit Snow to still end up with her Charming. And oh yeah, Emma loves him. Henry, as well. Snow, as a new Mom will hopefully drop the pregnancy hormone overload and be less inclined to pontificate preciousness as Mary Margaret. She will be getting that missed maternal experience she so deeply desired in the Echo cave and will most likely be too sleep deprived/ exhausted to meddle :) for a bit. And Snow is a super snark partner for Hook anyway. He and Emma aren't a married couple in Boring Arse, Suburbia dealing with in-law issues. Thank Gawd.

 

In fact I will throw out some other speculation:

Elsa could be very grateful to those who freed her from the urn. That would include our pirate :) And if she doesn't accidentally put him into deep freeze by giving him a thank-ful hug, she could be an intriguing buffer between Hook and Regina, IF the Evil Major decides to take out Emma's Marion mistake by attacking Emma's love.

 

Or not any of the above HA!

 

This IS going to be a most interesting season.

[stealinghome]

Robin...is a grey character.

I strongly disagree, and in fact this is one of the things that's disappointed me about OUAT's Robin thus far: he's not gray at all! He's a very standard (and bland) Good Guy. Hook is a far grayer character than Robin. The Knave from Once: Wonderland, who's mostly a good guy, is a grayer character than Robin.* Hell, freaking Snow White with her "dark spot" is grayer than Robin! There's no edge to this Robin at all (and here I blame acting as well as writing, because Tom Ellis had more edge in 5 minutes in 'Lacey' than Sean Maguire mustered in an entire season, and brought more dashing charm to boot).

 

Now, maybe the show will try to inject some edge into him in the upcoming season, particularly if there are Sherwood fairybacks. It would be a good idea--as it stands, one of the reasons I can't buy Outlaw Queen is because Robin has "doormat" written all over him, he's not nearly a strong enough personality to match Regina. But I suspect that if we get any Sherwood fairybacks, they won't really do that; I think they're going to be too invested in showing Robin as a Good Guy with Marian and baby Roland. At most, I think we'd get something like Snow Falls, where Robin starts out snarky toward Marian before they fall in love. Which doesn't really change anything from what we've already seen, and doesn't move Robin out of solid Good Guy territory.

 

 

*In some respects it's kind of too bad that Will has a confirmed True Love in Ana, because I actually don't think he'd be a bad match for Regina. If nothing else, he'd snark right back at her when she gets on her high horse. But I watched the last few episodes of Once: Wonderland and actually really liked Will/Ana, so they best not break those two up.

Edited June 29, 2014 by stealinghome

[Souris]

I was pondering the Will issue as I mowed the grass (because that's just boring and annoying as all get-out, and I tend to zone out during it), and it struck me that we could get Will from ANY point in his life, thanks to the White Rabbit being able to time-hop as well as realm-hop with his holes. So it's not necessarily the Will that's currently happily ruling Wonderland with Anastasia as the White King. It could be the Will from anytime between when Cora took out his heart and when he went with the Rabbit to rescue Alice from the insane asylum. So that would explain the lack of Ana along with him.

 

Seriously, if only all the characters knew about the White Rabbit, there would've been a whole lot less need for hats, curses and magic beans. And David would still have his heart. 

 

Also, a lot of people seem excited for a bromance or snark-offs between Hook and Will. So I'm thinking that maybe they actually won't like each other all that much to start off, because they're just so similar in many ways. Like, "Hey, wait a minute, I'M the sassy one with the accent!" Or they had a run-in at some point in the Enchanted Forest.

 

I strongly disagree, and in fact this is one of the things that's disappointed me about OUAT's Robin thus far: he's not gray at all! He's a very standard (and bland) Good Guy. Hook is a far grayer character than Robin. The Knave from Once: Wonderland, who's mostly a good guy, is a grayer character than Robin.* Hell, freaking Snow White with her "dark spot" is grayer than Robin! There's no edge to this Robin at all

 

ITA with this. This Robin is edge-free. There's nothing nuanced about him at all. He is very much a bland good guy. Where's the legendary thief who got down and dirty in the forest?

Edited June 29, 2014 by Souris

[Wandering1]

I strongly disagree, and in fact this is one of the things that's disappointed me about OUAT's Robin thus far: he's not gray at all! He's a very standard (and bland) Good Guy. Hook is a far grayer character than Robin. The Knave from Once: Wonderland, who's mostly a good guy, is a grayer character than Robin.* Hell, freaking Snow White with her "dark spot" is grayer than Robin! There's no edge to this Robin at all (and here I blame acting as well as writing, because Tom Ellis had more edge in 5 minutes in 'Lacey' than Sean Maguire mustered in an entire season, and brought more dashing charm to boot).

 

Now, maybe the show will try to inject some edge into him in the upcoming season, particularly if there are Sherwood fairybacks. It would be a good idea--as it stands, one of the reasons I can't buy Outlaw Queen is because Robin has "doormat" written all over him, he's not nearly a strong enough personality to match Regina. But I suspect that if we get any Sherwood fairybacks, they won't really do that; I think they're going to be too invested in showing Robin as a Good Guy with Marian and baby Roland. At most, I think we'd get something like Snow Falls, where Robin starts out snarky toward Marian before they fall in love. Which doesn't really change anything from what we've already seen, and doesn't move Robin out of solid Good Guy territory.

 

 

*In some respects it's kind of too bad that Will has a confirmed True Love in Ana, because I actually don't think he'd be a bad match for Regina. If nothing else, he'd snark right back at her when she gets on her high horse. But I watched the last few episodes of Once: Wonderland and actually really liked Will/Ana, so they best not break those two up.

Totally disagree. 3B showed that he was willing to stand up to Regina and challenger her. I love that about him. We have also seen that he was willing to break the rules and take chances when needed.

 

I have zero interest in Will and I don't think he is needed, I am sorry his show was cancelled, but the writers are making a mistake bringing him over.

He doesn't know completely who she is but he's about to find out.  I am not familiar with what the BBC version did, but not keeping him with Marian is one thing, putting him with the person who split him from Marian and made Roland motherless is something different.

Marian choose Snow White over her family. I have no interest in rooting for Marian given her history. Her family was not something she cared about in EF,  and I don't see that changing much in SB.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Wandering1

[Dianthus]

This prob'ly puts me in the smallest of minority groups, but I'd like to see Emma use her magic and a heapin' helpin' of Fairy Dust to restore Hook's missing hand. Only True Love would be powerful enuff, etc.

 

I dunno about the Jolly Rodger thing. OTOH, It wasn't just his ship, it was his home. OtO, you've got the whole "sailor home from the sea" thing.

 

Hook has little more than the clothes he stands up in to offer Emma, as far as worldly things, but what he does have to offer are the intangibles that really matter. In this way, as in so many others, he reminds me of Spike from BtVS (from s10 of the commix).

Edited June 29, 2014 by Dianthus

[stealinghome]

Marian choose Snow White over her family. I have no interest in rooting for Marian given her history. Her family was not something she cared about in EF,  and I don't see that changing much in SB.

Strongly disagree. All Marian could talk about in that jail cell was her family; Emma had to knock Marian out because Marian was determined to get back to her family. Hell, she wouldn't give anyone her name because she wanted to protect her family! I don't see her desire to protect Roland and Robin changing anytime soon, given her reaction to seeing them again.

 

We have also seen that he was willing to break the rules and take chances when needed.

Like when, exactly? And further--how does this make him a gray character? Everyone on this show breaks the rules/takes chances when they need to. I don't think that's a distinguishing feature.

Edited June 29, 2014 by stealinghome

[Wandering1]

Marian should have been with her family to begin with and she wasn't so I doubt her family means that much to her. 

 

Robin was willing to follow Regina into her castle to help Snow and Charming. He was willing to go into Rumple's castle at a risk to help everyone.

[Camera One]

Strongly disagree. All Marian could talk about in that jail cell was her family; Emma had to knock Marian out because Marian was determined to get back to her family. Hell, she wouldn't give anyone her name because she wanted to protect her family! I don't see her desire to protect Roland and Robin changing anytime soon, given her reaction to seeing them again.

 

I'm kind of surprised that they got the same actress who played Marion back in S2.  She had such a small role she might as well have been an extra in that episode.  I didn't recognize her.  It's kind of weird how a seemingly unremarkable background type character suddenly turned out to be Marion, which makes me wonder how much she will actually be featured in Season 4.  Or will they just make her turn into Zelena or Maleficient or whoever the next Big Bad will be.  I also wonder if the scenes in Season 4 will be mostly Robin and Regina bumping into one another while Marion is babysitting Roland.

 

 

 

I strongly disagree, and in fact this is one of the things that's disappointed me about OUAT's Robin thus far: he's not gray at all! He's a very standard (and bland) Good Guy. Hook is a far grayer character than Robin. The Knave from Once: Wonderland, who's mostly a good guy, is a grayer character than Robin.* Hell, freaking Snow White with her "dark spot" is grayer than Robin! There's no edge to this Robin at all (and here I blame acting as well as writing, because Tom Ellis had more edge in 5 minutes in 'Lacey' than Sean Maguire mustered in an entire season, and brought more dashing charm to boot).

 

Replying in Robin Hood thread.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

 

Marian should have been with her family to begin with and she wasn't so I doubt her family means that much to her.

 

That seems a huge leap to make from what little we saw. I'm sure we'll get more backstory on her disappearance in 4a.

 

 

Robin was willing to follow Regina into her castle to help Snow and Charming. He was willing to go into Rumple's castle at a risk to help everyone.

 

Replying in the Robin Hood thread. 

Edited June 29, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Serena]

Can we start a Marian thread? Wondering what the rule is for non-regular characters. It feels like this discussion belongs somewhere else.

[Rumsy4]

I agree Serena. I'll start one.

[yeswedo]

I've moved the Marian related posts to the new Marian thread

[KingOfHearts]

For those who haven't seen Frozen, don't worry. It's got a story that's totally Once material underneath all the hype!

 

I'm interested in Elsa's interactions with the cast. Assuming Elsa is seeking revenge on Rumple, she may be a device to help Belle see Rumple's true nature. It all depends on how much Rumple was involved with Elsa's story and the circumstances of her incarceration. There's an ongoing theory that the harsh winter Snow was born in was the eternal winter Elsa had cast. Perhaps Elsa is known as the legendary Snow Queen in the Enchanted Forest?

[myril]

For those who haven't seen Frozen, don't worry. It's got a story that's totally Once material underneath all the hype!

 

I'm interested in Elsa's interactions with the cast. Assuming Elsa is seeking revenge on Rumple, she may be a device to help Belle see Rumple's true nature. It all depends on how much Rumple was involved with Elsa's story and the circumstances of her incarceration. There's an ongoing theory that the harsh winter Snow was born in was the eternal winter Elsa had cast. Perhaps Elsa is known as the legendary Snow Queen in the Enchanted Forest?

 

It is an interesting theory and would be a nice tie in, if Elsa created the harsh winter Snow was born in, just wonder if people realize, that that could mean that Elsa is probably even slightly older than Regina. Could of course be that aging is very differently in the Fairy Tale lands, or at least Elsa with her powers ages differently, but Elsa caused that harsh winter when she came of age, and depending on when that is in her kingdom she was at least 16, or 18 or maybe 21 years old. Would put her more at the end 30s/early 40s spectrum. Of course Elsa could have spend some time in the urn, while Anna and Kristoff where somewhere in frozen suspense and not aging until that Dark Curse hit, or we might meet Anna and Kristoff only in fairy backs. But that's just details, the writers of Once don't care much about details at times anyway. ;-)

[daxx]

Elsa could have spent most of Snow's life not aging in the urn. Someone could have made a deal with Rumple to handle the Snow Queen around the time of Snow's birth.

[Serena]

Elsa could have spent most of Snow's life not aging in the urn. Someone could have made a deal with Rumple to handle the Snow Queen around the time of Snow's birth.

That would mean Anna kept aging and is now like 40 years old, though. I don't think they'd do that.

[KingOfHearts]

It's possible Anna, Kristoff and Elsa were all in urns. Maybe Hans (the villain from Frozen who attempted to usurp Elsa's throne by marrying Anna and killing Elsa) made a deal with Rumple to trap them all so he could take over Arendelle.

 

Wild theory: Prince Jonathan could be Hans perhaps, or possibly Prince John from Robin Hood.

Edited July 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

I would like that--it would be nice to have a season's "villain" have little/nothing to trace back to Regina, Emma, and the Charmings.  It would even take out the Rumple personal connection;  after all, this was just business.  Not is second cousin twice removed who is also Regina/Snow/Emma's secret stepsister.

 

Which means it's likely not going to happen.

 

So--Regina's aunt or neice?

[Shanna Marie]

So--Regina's aunt or neice?

The villain will be the son Cora was forced to give up (after Zelena, before she married Henry) when she had a flirtation with the next guy she thought was a prince. And it's all that evil Eva's fault for letting Leopold know she was scamming him. Therefore, all the bad stuff that happened to Arendelle because of what this villain did to Elsa will come down to being Snow's family's fault, and Regina's family was the real victim (never mind what happened to all the people who were actually frozen).

[KingOfHearts]

From Spoiler thread:

 

I'd desperately like the  Frozen people to be from Rumple and Hook's original era.  Desperately.

 

I wanted this too! Elsa being a relic from hundreds of years ago was a very intriguing idea to me. It would explain why Arendelle isn't talked about much. I'd like to see if any of the kingdoms we've already seen was actually Arendelle in the past. Perhaps Prince Eric's or King George's kingdom.

 

It would be very boring if she was from the Snow/Regina Era.

Edited July 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Souris]

That could be interesting. Though it would be sad for Arendelle to lose all their ruling family, and for Elsa and Anna to lose control of their land.

[Serena]

I would love that. Maybe Elsa, Anna and Kristoff all got trapped in the urn, meanwhile Arendelle either got completely frozen, or is now ruled by some evil dude (take your pick). Then we could have a couple of episodes at the beginning of the season of Elsa wreaking havoc because she blames Rumple for putting her away, then she calms down and our heroes are compelled to help her - she needs to find Anna and Kristoff, where are they? They're hidden in an urn on the Jolly Roger but oops, Hook gave it away! So they have to take it back from *insert person Hook gave it to - I vote for Ursula!* - they find and free K/A and now they have to get back Arendelle from Evil Dictator. They defeat ED, but don't kill him, so ED goes after Storybrooke! And he can be the villain of 4B, while E/A/K try to rebuild Arendelle offscreen. Or, ED is killed and the person they took back the Jolly from is pissed and coming after them.

 

Rumple helps to show Belle that he's sorry for locking up Elsa (and lying to her about the dagger, if that comes to light), Hook helps because Arendelle is his kingdom, the Evil Dictator is the bad king he was serving and he wants a good queen like Elsa to rule it instead (not sure if the timeline fits), Emma helps because she doesn't want anyone to damage Hook's pretty face, Charming helps because he wants to keep Emma safe, and Snow, Belle and Henry stay home babysitting baby Snowflake.

 

Meanwhile, Regina hides in her room eating icecream and listening to Taylor Swift because her boyfriend broke up with her.

[KingOfHearts]

I hope we don't stay in Storybrooke the entire time. But if the pattern continues (2A, 3A), we'll be going to another realm in the first episode. Would love a #SaveAnna adventure!

 

You should write for Once, Serena!

Edited July 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Shanna Marie]

Meanwhile, Regina hides in her room eating icecream and listening to Taylor Swift because her boyfriend broke up with her.

Add some wine so we get Regina drunkenly singing along with Taylor Swift and we've got the Best Storyline Ever right here.

[FurryFury]

I really like this scenario, because it sounds more like adventure (which show sometimes does pretty well) instead of heavy-handed drama (which it often fails at). Also, I dig Once's take on Ursula - she's much more compelling and interesting than the classic Ariel villain - so I'd love to see her again.

[Souris]

I love that scenario, Serena, but the timeline doesn't fit for all of it. If it's Rumple who urned up Elsa, it had to happen AFTER Hook became a pirate, because Rumple became the Dark One while Milah was with Hook. UNLESS the bad king that Hook/Liam sailed under was Hans during the brief period in the movie when he was in charge while Anna was looking for Elsa. Though Hans wasn't really king, just acting regent or whatever, and it was a brief period. But I could handwave it happening in that brief period, because Hans was the kind of douche who'd do something like that. Though we haven't heard anything about him being cast, so....

[Serena]

I love that scenario, Serena, but the timeline doesn't fit for all of it. If it's Rumple who urned up Elsa, it had to happen AFTER Hook became a pirate, because Rumple became the Dark One while Milah was with Hook. UNLESS the bad king that Hook/Liam sailed under was Hans during the brief period in the movie when he was in charge while Anna was looking for Elsa. Though Hans wasn't really king, just acting regent or whatever, and it was a brief period. But I could handwave it happening in that brief period, because Hans was the kind of douche who'd do something like that. Though we haven't heard anything about him being cast, so....

You're right. This could be resolved by making the previous Dark One the one who locked up Elsa, while Rumple just inherited his stuff and just didn't look at it again (because it was "too dangerous and unpredictable" like he said). So Elsa starts to go after Rumple (maybe the only thing she knows is that the "Dark One" was at fault, but she hasn't ever seen his face), but then realizes it was another dude who did it. Belle can chime up here and be like See! My Rumplepoo has a good heart and is an absolute innocent, he'd never do something like that!, which would then be the perfect time for her to find out about the dagger switch.

[Souris]

I saw a theory somewhere (can't even remotely remember where) that the king who sent Liam/Killian after the dreamshade was Elsa's father, who actually did think it was a healing plant that could cure Elsa of her freezing magic. Liam and Killian just sort of jumped to the conclusion he wanted it for nefarious purposes after discovering it was actually poison. Wouldn't that give Hook a massive guiltapalooza if he finds out his whole reason for being a pirate was based on a misassumption? He'd do everything he could to help Elsa after that!

 

Perhaps Elsa's parents were attempting to sail to Neverland to get the plant themselves when their ship sank.

Edited July 3, 2014 by Souris

[Shanna Marie]

One way that might make the timeline fit is if the first encounter between Killian and the princesses is in the era before the first ice incident -- say, some diplomatic meeting is being held on the Jewel of the Realm and a young (14-15 or so) Midshipman Jones is assigned to entertain the princesses who get a wee bit madcap, resulting in the cut that gave him the scar (which would be how Elsa recognizes him as an adult). Then there's the movie stuff, and "Good Form" and "The Crocodile" and Rumple becoming The Dark One take place during the years of isolation, and then in the post-movie era, some enemy gets Rumple to urn Elsa and possibly her sister. Or else Elsa's land gets magically frozen, also "freezing" the people in time, and she has to get back there and have her wounded heart healed in order to thaw her people.

 

If Hook is the person familiar to Elsa who knows Elsa isn't a villain and if she's pissed at Rumple, then that revives that conflict and possibly puts Hook in conflict with others if they believe Rumple instead of him.

[KingOfHearts]

 

Wouldn't that give Hook a massive guiltapalooza if he finds out his whole reason for being a pirate was based on a misassumption?

Since CaptainSwan is going in full-force now, more Hook backstory would be appropriate. His character needs more dimensions to keep the relationship interesting. If he just remained a dashing pirate, it wouldn't be a very deep dynamic. He and Emma could really relate to each other if she finds out how he lived after being abandoned as a child. At this point, I don't think she even knows he was in the navy.

Edited July 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[YaddaYadda]

At this point, I don't think she even knows he was in the navy.

 

I think she might know.  If the conversation happened, it was of course off screen, like when David told MM that Emma wanted to go back to NYC.

[Camera One]

I wonder if in Season 4, they will do a full-out Robin Hood flashback showing how he met Marion, and how they fall in love.  If we saw all that, it might change our perspective on whether we want Regina/Robin together again, so I'm really curious if the writers will do this.  

[YaddaYadda]

Since we're talking about Hook and his voyage to Neverland and who he worked for when he was a navy officer, has anyone ever wondered if the poison used to kill the giants wasn't dreamshade?  I know it's some 300 years later, but this is George and he's an ass and James wanted beans more than he wanted treasure (1 bean is worth 1000 gold coins).  How bankrupt was the kingdom exactly?

[KingOfHearts]

It could be that George comes from a long line of jerks, haha. There's no reason it couldn't be dreamshade. Perhaps others have been to Neverland that we haven't been told about.

Edited July 3, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

First scene in Season 4.

 

MEANWHILE, in the DARK FOREST.

 

GLINDA:  Oh crap, I forgot to tell Snow and Charming that if Zelena dies, all her pre-casted evil spells will leave the pendant and enact themselves.

Edited July 8, 2014 by Camera One