Maid Marian: She Missed her Execution

[Wandering1]

It was a huge leap to change how Marian died, but everyone accepts it. I don't think you can have it both ways. If Marian was willing to sacrifice her family for Snow White then you can't also claim she is a good mother.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Wandering1

[Serena]

But Marian wasn't willing to sacrifice her family, she just sacrificed herself by not giving up the name of an innocent young girl to a murderous tyrant who wanted her killed. Using that reasoning, everyone who risks their life by defying a dictatorship doesn't care about their family.

[Dani-Ellie]

Marian should have been with her family to begin with and she wasn't so I doubt her family means that much to her.

 

It's not like Marian was off gallivanting somewhere and having a grand old time while her family wondered what happened to her. She was forcibly imprisoned by Regina, paraded around to serve as an example of what defying the Queen looked like, and sentenced to death.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Wandering1]

But Marian wasn't willing to sacrifice her family, she just sacrificed herself by not giving up the name of an innocent young girl to a murderous tyrant who wanted her killed. Using that reasoning, everyone who risks their life by defying a dictatorship doesn't care about their family.

Why wasn't Marian with her family? While "innocent " is questionable. That "Murderous Tyrant" had been chasing Snow for years and hadn't killed her yet. Marian choose her loyalty to Snow over her family. That doesn't make her a good mother.

It's not like Marian was off gallivanting somewhere and having a grand old time while her family wondered what happened to her. She was forcibly imprisoned by Regina and sentenced to death.

Why wasn't she with her son? Why was Snow more important than Roland?

[Serena]

The reason Marian wasn't with her family was because Regina had kidnapped her and thrown her into a dungeon.

[Dani-Ellie]

Why wasn't she with her son? Why was Snow more important than Roland?

 

The dilemma is not that simple. Telling Regina Snow's location would have been giving in to tyranny. Marian, who I believe is a good person, would have had to live with that guilt of leading Regina to Snow if her information had panned out. It's not about who's more important; it's about what was right. Marian did what she could in the face of tyranny to protect her family. If she couldn't save herself, she was going to do whatever she could to save those she loved.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[Wandering1]

The reason Marian wasn't with her family was because Regina had kidnapped her and thrown her into a dungeon.

Kidnapped her from her home away from her family? No.

The dilemma is not that simple. Telling Regina Snow's location would have been giving in to tyranny. Marian, who I believe is a good person, would have had to live with that guilt of leading Regina to Snow if her information had panned out. It's not about who's more important; it's about what was right. Marian did what she could in the face of tyranny to protect her family. If she couldn't save herself, she was going to do whatever she could to save those she loved.

So Marian choose to leave her son motherless in order to protect a woman how had been dealing with the Evil Queen for years. You can call her moral if you want, but it doesn't make her a good mother.

[Rumsy4]

 

You can call her moral if you want, but it doesn't make her a good mother.

 

She is actually being a good person, which includes being a good mother, by refusing to give in to tyranny. As I see it, it's not an either/or choice between resisting evil authority or being a good mother. 

[Wandering1]

She is actually being a good person, which includes being a good mother, by refusing to give in to tyranny. As I see it, it's not an either/or choice between resisting evil authority or being a good mother. 

Actually a good mother puts her child first. Was it better for Roland to grow up with a martyr or a mother... Marian was not a good mother.

A good friend? Sure. A good person, ok. But not a good mother.

Edited June 29, 2014 by Wandering1

[Rumsy4]

I have started a thread to discuss Marian here. First topic for discussion: did she do right by being willing to die protecting Snow White, and does that make her a bad mother? (Sorry for the lame thread title).

Edited June 29, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

Didn't Robin say he lost Marian due to something that happened because one of his jobs? It sounds like that was what initially separated them. Then she was captured by Regina, refused to give up Snow's location, and then scheduled for execution -- all the while refusing to give her identity in order to protect her family. Of course, knowing Regina, would giving up Snow's location have actually saved her? Or would she then have been executed or at least kept in prison for having helped Snow in the first place?

[daxx]

Right now I headcanon that Marian was separated from Robin during a job and Snow helped her out at first but then Marian was captured by Regina's black knights.

[Serena]

It doesn't look like Snow knew her, though. At least she didn't seem to recognize her.

[Camera One]

So either Regina captured her because she was at the wrong place at the wrong time, or she was in the same village where Snow was hiding but Snow never got a chance to know her?

[yeswedo]

@Rumsy4 thanks for starting this topic. I've moved the Marian related posts from the speculation thread here. If I missed any let me know.

[Souris]

Actually a good mother puts her child first. Was it better for Roland to grow up with a martyr or a mother... Marian was not a good mother.

A good friend? Sure. A good person, ok. But not a good mother.

 

Whoa, whoa, whoa. I take MAJOR exception to somebody inferring that Marian isn't a good mother because she somehow -- we don't know exactly how -- ended up in a situation where she was captured by the Evil Queen and refused to give Snow White up to her death. We simply don't know enough about how she was separated from her family and captured to make any sort of moral judgment about how much she loves her family. And who's to say Regina wouldn't have killed her anyway even if she did turn over Snow? I'd think that once she defied Regina, she was marked for death regardless if she later told what she knew about Snow.

 

By the logic of "a good mother puts her child before anything, even doing the right and noble thing," any mother who has a dangerous job -- military, firefigher, police officer, etc. -- isn't a good mother because there's always the very real possibility they could be killed in the line of duty and leave their child motherless. I strenuously object to this inference. And what about the fathers who hold these jobs? Are they thus not good fathers? Is it only women who should stay home with the child and never risk anything or stand up for anything? Should only childless people be in the military or be police officers or firefighters?

[KingOfHearts]

We simply don't know enough about how she was separated from her family and captured to make any sort of moral judgment about how much she loves her family. 

 

 

 

S4 should give us a flashback of how Marian got captured in the first place. I'd like to see how Marian's story in her cell aligns with Robin's in Witch Hunt. 

 

I don't want to make any moral judgement on Marian, Robin, or Regina about the situation until we see what happens in S4. There are just too many unknowns right now. It's easy to jump to conclusions, but this is Once. It's known for twists. Some things happen exactly the way we predicted, and occasionally something comes from left field. There are many scenarios that could go down, but I don't want to judge anyone until I see which way the writers choose to go with.

[myril]

Kidnapped her from her home away from her family? No.

So Marian choose to leave her son motherless in order to protect a woman how had been dealing with the Evil Queen for years. You can call her moral if you want, but it doesn't make her a good mother.

An interesting view, not one I agree with though. But I am curious. If being absent and fighting tyranny is something a parent shouldn't do, then what is Robin in your opinion, a good or a bad father? After all it sounds like he wasn't home either, he was not around to protect his wife and child, as should have been his task as a good husband and father, or? Wasn't Marian acting as good wife and mother when doing what she could to protect her family in the probable absence of her husband, who was working somewhere as honorable thief? Was it bad of Marian to protect her child by taking the threat away from her home, so that at least her child would not get into the hands of the Evil Queen?

Edited June 30, 2014 by katusch

[ShadowFacts]

 

Of course, knowing Regina, would giving up Snow's location have actually saved her? Or would she then have been executed or at least kept in prison for having helped Snow in the first place?

 

Regina is not known for her mercy.  She is extremely ruthless, let's face it, she killed her husband and went on to kill her father.  I don't really envision her getting Snow's whereabouts out of a peasant and then thanking her and sending her on her way.  Marian was in a tough spot.  If you think you're going to be killed anyway, then hell no, you aren't giving up Snow. 

[KingOfHearts]

Would Regina actually kill her? It depends on her mood on that day, lol. There were some places she rewarded those who helped her. But if she was in a bad mood, it was instant death. <sarcasm> She's really just misunderstood is all! </sarcasm>

Edited June 30, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[KingOfHearts]

The best case scenario for the Love Triangle of Doom is that Marian and Robin stay together and Regina learns a valuable lesson in consequences. That is, unfortunately, the most unlikely turnout we could get from these writers. You can expect that Robin, even if he were to choose Marian in the end, will be going back to Regina from time to time. In fact, I bet the writers are just itching to draw a parallel because the Triangle of Doom and the Snowing/Kathryn Triangle from S1. Except this time, you can count on Marian being the bad guy unlike the innocent Kathryn.

 

From what we can get, I hope Marian dies or finds someone else. Because if she doesn't, we can prepare for oodles and oodles of Woegina. Her very presence spells trouble because these writers have no intention of giving a decent story to true victim. Even if they tried, you can bet they'd trip themselves doing it. The Marian twist is just too volatile and deep for A&E to follow through with.

Edited August 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Curio]

The best case scenario for the Love Triangle of Doom is that Marian and Robin stay together and Regina learns a valuable lesson in consequences.

I would love for this to happen. It would be great karmic payback for Regina meddling with everyone's happy endings - specifically trying to break apart Snow and Charming in Season 1 - and the person she attempted to kill in the past could actually get a happy ending.

 

Taking the rest of my response to the relationship thread since it doesn't really have anything to do with Marian...

[KingOfHearts]

 

I would love for this to happen. It would be great karmic payback for Regina meddling with everyone's happy endings - specifically trying to break apart Snow and Charming in Season 1 - and the person she attempted to kill in the past could actually get a happy ending.

 

It's for Regina's sake as well. In order for her to get redeemed, she has to see that her actions affect other people. Realizing that other peoples' feelings matter would do a world of good for her arc. If her "redemption" is to be believed from 3B, then it has to carry over to S4. She can't instantly drop it because of a boyfriend. If she learned a lesson from Marian, it would be a huge.

Edited August 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Thoughts on Marian now? I loved the scene outside the diner, with Marian calling everyone out, and being protective of Roland. However, I did not like the fact that she begged Regina for help from the Snow Monster. The actress also carries herself a little rigid, and the EF rags don't do any favors. I bet she never gets into modern clothes like Belle or Tink. I feel that she will go the way of Greg. Another victim of Regina's, made to look bad and got out of the way for the sake of Regina's so-called redemption and happiness.

Edited October 1, 2014 by Rumsy4

[ShadowFacts]

Too bad she only temporarily acted like a normal person.  Didn't like the way the Snow Monster scene was written, either.  I would have preferred to hear Marian say something more like, don't let my son lose his mother a second time, do right by Roland, something like that.  She was super defiant in the Enchanted Forest, this was a little out of character. 

[YaddaYadda]

I thought she was "grudgingly" saying that maybe Regina wasn't a monster from the actress' acting choice.  I didn't get the impression that she's being all that forgiving or letting her guard down around Regina.  That being said, I would rather she asked Regina to help everyone than just basically beg for her life alone.  As I said previously though, I'd really rather the snow monster stomped Marian to death than have that triangle on my screen where I'm rolling my eyes every other second because it's so absurd and contrived.

[ShadowFacts]

I thought she was "grudgingly" saying that maybe Regina wasn't a monster from the actress' acting choice.  I didn't get the impression that she's being all that forgiving or letting her guard down around Regina.  That being said, I would rather she asked Regina to help everyone than just basically beg for her life alone.  As I said previously though, I'd really rather the snow monster stomped Marian to death than have that triangle on my screen where I'm rolling my eyes every other second because it's so absurd and contrived.

 

It should have come off more as Regina saving everyone rather than just Marian, because wasn't Robin one of the people lying there about to be stomped for all Regina knew?  She was saving her soulmate, along with his wife.  A twofer. 

[Rumsy4]

 

It should have come off more as Regina saving everyone rather than just Marian, because wasn't Robin one of the people lying there about to be stomped for all Regina knew?  She was saving her soulmate, along with his wife.  A twofer.

 

Exactly. The writers framed it in such a way that it highlighted what they wanted to highlight--Marian begging for her life, and beginning to see Regina as a different person, and Regina saving Marian's life. It's the way they framed Going Home as well. Regina was supposed to pay the price by losing Henry, but basically all the main cast and probably the other people in Storybrooke, paid as well. 

[Camera One]

Snow made no sign that she had any idea who Marion was.  So how did Marion know where Snow was?  Is Snow going to learn the true story of how Marion defended Snow to The Evil Queen?  

[Rumsy4]

Considering the treatment Graham got, I have no hope it will ever come up.

[Rumsy4]

I posted this on the episode thread, but had to post this here as well. The writers took "Women in Refrigerators" to a whole new level with frozen Marian.

[Camera One]

The woman can't catch a break, can she?

 

Please don't have Snow accidentally roll her off the couch next episode and she breaks into pieces, and then Regina and Robin would blame Snow for murdering her.

Edited October 13, 2014 by Camera One

[Rumsy4]

I'm a little hopeful that Marian won't die after last night's episode. Robin chose to be with Regina even though Marian was in a frozen coma. He doesn't care about his so called code. Please let Marian not have to die! Let her live in offscreenville and take Roland with her.

[Trini]

Why did the writers even bring Marian into the show if they weren't going to do anything with her? Was it one of those ideas that seemed good at the finale, but then they have no idea how to play it out? Or did her story get dropped when they found out they had shiny, new Frozen to play with?

 

In any case, I was disappointed that Emma didn't even mention icicle!Marian when they caught the Snow Queen in the last episode.

Edited November 11, 2014 by Trini

[Rumsy4]

Why did the writers even bring Marian into the show if they weren't going to do anything with her? 

 

They are using her to show that none of Regina's victims matter. "The past is in the paaaast..."

[Trini]

Well, bye Marian. So sorry the writers didn't care about you at all, except to break up Robin/Regina. Glad you're thawed out, but you deserve better than to have to be with Robin in a new realm.

[HoodlumSheep]

Marian for High Queen of everything. Glad she got to end things on her own terms (sorta) though. Your common sense shall be missed dearly.

[Shanna Marie]

In my head, in the six weeks of time jump, she's already become a successful entrepreneur and is thriving in the world without magic. Robin has been arrested for breaking and entering but ended up in a psych ward when he claimed that he was Robin Hood, robbing the rich to give to the poor. The next time we see Marian, she'll be wearing a stunning power suit and awing investors.

[TwistedandBored]

She came of as such a strong woman in her conversations with Regina. I wish it would have ended there. Instead she is stuck with her unworthy husband now. A cursed woman if I ever saw one! 

[The Cake is a Pie]

Let's hope Marian left Storybrooke and discovered the modern invention of divorce lawyers.

[KingOfHearts]

 

She came of as such a strong woman in her conversations with Regina. I wish it would have ended there. 

Loved that scene. She was being nice without kissing up to Regina. She understood what was happening and acted like the bigger person. I can't believe Robin is ditching such a great lady. He's a fool for that. I wish she could have stayed and got on amicable terms with Regina. Not BFFs of course, but she would be a great voice of common sense.

Edited December 16, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Rumsy4]

Poor Marian. She lost her freedom and her family trying to protect Snow, and keep her family safe. And what does she get? She's stuck with a man who cares nothing for her in an unfamiliar land without magic. And yet, Regina whines about not having a Happy Ending...

I'm really disappointed that Snow never thanked her for what she did, and in fact, was cheering on her husband's affair with Regina while she was in a frozen coma. I still think she's gonna die by the end of the season.

Also, Emma should have felt guilty about Marain, not Regina.

Edited December 17, 2014 by Rumsy4

[Shanna Marie]

I'm really disappointed that Snow never thanked her for what she did, and in fact, was cheering on her husband's affair with Regina while she was in a frozen coma.

And then the totally redeemed and deserving a happy ending Regina let Marian talk about how the fact that she'd been gone so long had pretty much ruined her marriage without so much as an apology for being the one responsible for their separation in the first place or even the slightest shred of awareness that she was responsible for that separation. And she let Marian talk about how Regina saved her life without any apology or suggestion that maybe Regina owed her for having tormented her, thrown her in the dungeon and planned her execution.

 

And, yeah, Emma should be feeling guilty that she saved Marian only for Marian to find that her husband had moved on rather than feeling guilty for keeping Regina from getting to keep her scumbag boyfriend.

[BoPeeps]

There are some things I will have to totally ignore about characterizations and choices that the Writers have made during this show in order to remain a solid fan. The entire treatment of Marian is probably at the top of the list. For a show that prides itself on creating strong women characters, they have royally screwed up and been hideously cavalier with one of the most noble and strong women ever to appear on ONCE...as portrayed by their own words/scripts.

 

A bit too harsh rant follows, but some things must be brain-dumped to make room for holiday cheer:

 

The whole introduction of the skeevy-weird triangle with Regina, Marian and the ultimate wanker dickbrain scumbag incarnation of a universally beloved folk hero has been a classless, pinhead move~tawdry and quite soap-opera-dirtball-common from the moment Marian came back into their lives. The fantasy elements did nothing to hide the skeeve.

 

I started out liking the concept of Robin and Regina. Why not, it was sassy and sexy and a totally different approach than the ever traumatic angst of Hook and Emma inching their way towards a UST coupling that was, frankly, clearly planned from the first step on the beanstalk. Even having to drudge our way through the ridiculously middle school, *beige* and dullard Neal crap, the end game was pretty well laid out for all to see. The A&E tease was in full blown mode.

 

Then Robin...the man who, by the writers own words, would go through hell and back for his Marian, who credited her with changing his life into something good and solid and worthy~ the tortured, principled, still-loving-the-woman-he-lost-but-bravely-moving-on-with-his-life, but refreshingly sassy and flirty widower turned into a weak-assed, dick brain spooge when his beloved wife was miraculously returned to his side. He wanted his little steamy side piece.

 

Even with the short shrift given her character, Marian remains the adult. The steadfast woman of honor and intelligence and grace. And apparently, the target of third rate plot advancement for a total jerk. I hope  she ditches the cretin, keeps Roland with her, becomes a fsuccessful independent woman, stars in a new Netflix single medieval-mother drama and raises him to be a man with his mother's class, and Robin HAS to come back to Storybrooke on his knees because no one else with any sense of decency, except "I cannot be complete without my happy ending with a forest smelling wife-beater-wearing  twu wuv putz" Regina, will have him.

 

A&E, for all their amazing imaginations and creativity, are the ones who should feel guilty about Marian, but they are too busy ignoring their own characters' development to introduce a trio of (so far) underwhelming female foes into the mix.

 

Gee, I hope I am not being *obtuse* (snork)

My rancor will fast disappear now that the rant is out...and besides, I still have use of the mute or fast forward button.

 

("It's injustice I hate, not the Normans" Errol Flynn as the perfect  Robin Hood.)

[Serena]

I started out liking the concept of Robin and Regina. Why not, it was sassy and sexy and a totally different approach than the ever traumatic angst of Hook and Emma inching their way towards a UST coupling that was, frankly, clearly planned from the first step on the beanstalk. Even having to drudge our way through the ridiculously middle school, *beige* and dullard Neal crap, the end game was pretty well laid out for all to see. The A&E tease was in full blown mode.

Replying to this in the Relationship thread.