Speculation WITHOUT Spoilers: Lalalalala! I can't hear you!

[Dani-Ellie]

No.  For the Marian storyline to work for me at all, Regina has to be a grown-up about it--or be repeatedly called on her horrible behavior by people who aren't Belle--and maybe a couple of seasons of her actually maturing past toddler, while for one completely nonCharming related reason whatsoever, the relationship between Marian and Robin can end and Regina/Robin move to the "end game" that seems to be the plan.

 

Exactly. If we're doing this, I want to emerge out of it a Regina who's finally put on her big girl pants and accepted some responsibility for her own actions and gained some actual self-awareness that sticks. And maybe some actual remorse so I can start believing this redemption story they're trying so hard to sell us.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[retrograde]

I don't necessarily love the storyline, but I still have one foot in the "Marian is Zelena/someone else" camp. I think it would be the only way they could (sorta) plausibly continue Regina/Hook.

 

ETA: Err, Regina/Robin. I need sleep.

Edited June 25, 2014 by retrograde

[KingOfHearts]

 And maybe some actual remorse so I can start believing this redemption story they're trying so hard to sell us.

 

As much as I would love that, I don't think the writers are capable of giving Regina a legit lesson from this issue. They might try to, but every time they try to give Regina growth, it always executes really badly. Of course I want Regina to realize the error of her ways and that her actions have consequences, but that hasn't been in the writers' playbook since the pilot. They risk losing their popular rock star, the Evil Queen, if they give Regina a conscience.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Mari]

They risk losing their popular rock star, the Evil Queen, if they give Regina a conscience.

I've wondered about that--is she more popular than others, or are some fan bases just more vocal than others?  Personally, I don't tumblr, twitter, facebook . . . etc.  Any ranting about the show I do is here, and before that TWoP. 

 

How is the character's popularity being judged? Not trying to be snotty, just curious, because while I know the writers have had a lot of twitter reaction and enthusiasm to Regina, is that their barometer?

[Serena]

I don't necessarily love the storyline, but I still have one foot in the "Marian is Zelena/someone else" camp. I think it would be the only way they could (sorta) plausibly continue Regina/Hook.

I know this is a typo, but I'm imagining Regina trying to seduce Hook like she did David, and Hook backing away reaaaaal slow from the crazy. I think he was the last person actually allowed to call her out, in 312, right?

[KingOfHearts]

I've wondered about that--is she more popular than others, or are some fan bases just more vocal than others?  Personally, I don't tumblr, twitter, facebook . . . etc.  Any ranting about the show I do is here, and before that TWoP. 

 

She is extremely popular on the social media sites. TWOP/Previously is the only community I've seen that hasn't been a fanbase for her. Every time the official Once page posts something, there are always comments along the lines of: "Regina deserves a happy ending too! Just leave her alone!" in regards to the Marian issue. They asked if Emma was right to bring Marian back, and there was a resounding "No!" from thousands of comments. Evil Regals really dominate the major fanbases from what I've seen. Lana is also involved in a lot of the marketing. Heck, the Evil Queen had little to do with S3, and yet she's on the box art for the DVDs.

 

So yeah, they're going to keep Regina evil to some degree to keep the money coming in unfortunately.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Alex]

I wonder, how can someone as Regina could feel remorse? Someone who did what she did would be destroyed by remorse and perhaps even Regina would be destroyed too.
I think that the only thing that could allow her to survive would be to apologize to the people she hurt. Which she did, in her way, with Snow and Henry and Belle.

 

(I'm not trying to excuse her, but actually, I don't care much: they're fairytale characters, this is a fantasy show! I cannot apply contemporary rules and laws to a fairy tale land and to a medievalish period.I would say differently if this was a « reality » show, though.)

 

Regarding Marian.
The problem, imo, isn't Regina (who is what she is, a spoiled brat that instead of making tantrums kills and tortures people), but Robin. He has been lobotoReginamized since the beginning of 3B, he sees only what he wants to see (and strictly related to the present, it's like the past has been magically wiped away). The only way I can explain his sudden crush is that Regina is a charming woman and that it would have been difficult to say no to something offered on a silver tray. But again, I stick to the « it's a fairly tale » and put my brain away when watching.
Now that there is an actual triangle, it will be interesting to see how Regina is going to deal with it (as she cannot revert to Evil Queen mode and start killing people) and to see how Robin is going to deal with it. The only thing that makes sense is for Robin to go back to Marian and that introduces Regina to her True Love... Tink said he was her happiness and happy ending, but not that he is her True Love (that was Lana saying it). So, I hope in a twist like this.

[Dani-Ellie]

I wonder, how can someone as Regina could feel remorse? Someone who did what she did would be destroyed by remorse and perhaps even Regina would be destroyed too.

 

Good! I kid ... sort of.

 

My problem is that without remorse, there's no empathy. Without empathy, there's no reason to not resort to the same tactics to get what she wants. Without that reason, there's no growth, and without growth, there's no redemption. And that's fine if they wanted to keep her the Evil Queen all the way up through the final moments but they clearly do not.

 

Redemption for me requires a change in one's behavior not to get what one wants but based upon a recognition that one was a horrible, horrible person. I need to see a change to believe it, essentially. I need to see a true, base change based upon the realization that her previous actions were wrong and horrible and all kinds of not okay.

 

As to Regina not allowing herself to feel remorse because it would destroy her? Well, maybe she shouldn't have been evil, then. She destroyed lives. There's not even been a token apology to any of the Charmings about destroying their lives. She's only apologized to Henry, which I believed, and to Belle, but only because Belle refused to help her otherwise so I don't exactly count that. Why should she get to skate by on an "Oops, I won't do it again, I promise!"?

 

Basically, I have zero sympathy for her, and the harder they try to shove "but she's changed!" down my throat without allowing the character to actually change, the more I'm going to call bullshit.

Edited June 25, 2014 by Dani-Ellie

[KingOfHearts]

Besides Marian, Rumpbelle marriage, and Frozen, there better be more everyday problems going on.

 

Hope to see Emma and Henry going house hunting. Hook is going to have to look for a place as well. I'd really like to see Sheriff Swan come back, with Hook and Charming working possibly as deputies. The show desperately needs more non-magical situations to balance out, and to keep it from cartoon territory. In S1, there was a scene about Emma's stuff coming in from Boston to Snow's apartment. Surely the moving process from New York will get least one scene. I know TV magic makes it easy to move logistically, but it's still a big step. If Emma, Hook and Henry are going to be staying in Storybrooke long-term, they need to start growing some roots and making plans.

 

With the Knave coming, I think Wonderland will come into play again. The spinoff show had a few diamonds in the rough as far as actors go, so some Wonderland secondary characters would be much appreciated on the parent show.

 

Henry better get a storyline, too. He's another character in 3B that got sidelined.

Edited June 25, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[FurryFury]

The only thing that makes sense is for Robin to go back to Marian and that introduces Regina to her True Love... Tink said he was her happiness and happy ending, but not that he is her True Love (that was Lana saying it). So, I hope in a twist like this.

 

I was hoping for that too, but (I think) there was a recent interview with the writers where Robin was named specifically as her true love or something. Although I may be confusing things (and I really hope I do, no matter what the show does, this pairing is going to be painful to watch).

Edited June 25, 2014 by FurryFury

[KAOS Agent]

I don't know if there was any clarification regarding the wording of Robin/Regina, though on the show it's never been referred to as True Love only as soul mates, but there was a comment from Adam about how Robin was definitely the guy with the tattoo in the tavern and how we all saw him. This was his response to the idea that perhaps there is another guy with the tattoo and Regina was mistaken about Robin. I remember being annoyed that he didn't leave this exit ramp should the Robin/Regina/Marian thing not pan out like they hope it will.

 

And no, I will never be on board with Roland having a stepmother who was responsible for the loss of his mother in his life for years. Even if I ignore the part where Regina murdered Marian (because Emma's late involvement stopped that from happening), she was still responsible for Roland going through the trauma of losing his mother and not having her around for some very critical formative years. Getting her back now is great, but even if they don't kill her off again (which would be horribly cruel and traumatic for Roland), it's not all's well that ends well. That family was destroyed by Regina and her ending up with Robin in the end is hugely problematic. Even from a "they grew apart" or a "we're different people now" perspective it doesn't work for me because they were separated and these changes occurred due to Regina's reign of terror.

[retrograde]

The only thing that makes sense is for Robin to go back to Marian and that introduces Regina to her True Love... Tink said he was her happiness and happy ending, but not that he is her True Love (that was Lana saying it). So, I hope in a twist like this.

I'm going to get ahead of the game and jump on the Regina/Little John ship now. Little Queen? Evil John?

 

She is extremely popular on the social media sites. TWOP/Previously is the only community I've seen that hasn't been a fanbase for her.

Yeah, I sometimes read TV show sub-Reddits for what I consider to be the views of more "casual" viewers (I mean, not that casual, clearly, but the awareness of spoilers, actors, fandoms, ratings, writers' comments, etc tends to be way lower) and I was just reading this one in r/OnceUponATime and thinking, "Wow, what a contrast."

With the Knave coming, I think Wonderland will come into play again.

I am curious to hear people's ideas on how the Knave will be shoehorned in here. I mean, clearly something to do with Robin, but what? Will he get his own storyline? Will Marian fall in love with him, clearing the way for Regina? Between him and Marian and Elsa (and maybe others from Frozen?), they are introducing quite a few new characters in 4a. 

[Camera One]

Between him and Marian and Elsa (and maybe others from Frozen?), they are introducing quite a few new characters in 4a.

 

Doesn't look good for the usual suspects.

[Shanna Marie]

I am curious to hear people's ideas on how the Knave will be shoehorned in here. I mean, clearly something to do with Robin, but what? Will he get his own storyline? Will Marian fall in love with him, clearing the way for Regina?

Oh, God forbid. Because that would require breaking up an established True Love pair who went through all kinds of trials, including a real redemption arc that actually involved real remorse. If they split up Will and Ana after she came to all that realization about the mistakes she made just to clear the way for Regina to get her man (splitting up yet another canon pairing from legend), I may not be responsible for my actions in response.

[Camera One]

The news about the Knave coming onto the parent show really throws me.  I liked the Knave a lot but I don't see how they would organically fit him into the story, especially when there are so many characters already who need and deserve story.  Of course, there will be no need to worry about Regina and Rumple not having front-burner plots, but that's not enough for me.  In addition, as Shanna Marie alluded to, they did a great job with Will and Anastasia in "Once Upon a Wonderland" and I hope they don't destroy that.

[retrograde]

I liked the Knave a lot but I don't see how they would organically fit him into the story

Yeah this is how I feel. I'm not sure what he would bring to the show. It already has a smart-assed "rapscallion" with a British accent. 

 

I wonder if he'll end up just mostly being a sounding-board for Robin.

[KAOS Agent]

I was so happy when they killed off Neal, not because I wanted Neal dead so much, but because they have too many people in the regular cast already and many are getting the shaft - especially when you consider how much time they devote to the villain du jour. Then immediately upon Neal's death, they announce the Knave, a character never before seen on the parent show, as a regular and I just rolled my eyes. Of course, they need a new toy to play with. God forbid they develop the stories of their existing characters. I'm not at all excited about the Knave's arrival on the show. Actually, I'm not really excited about Season 4 in general.

[KingOfHearts]

Maybe there will be multiple Robin Hood flashbacks, with Will Scarlet in some of them? That might be fun to watch. We need more of those. All the Robin Hood characters in the show are bland, so giving them backstories will flavor them up to par with the rest of the cast.

 

As for the Frozen plot, I wonder if Snow will be the one to first reach out to Elsa. While everyone else may be under the illusion she's evil from freezing the town, Snow would probably be the most likely to trust her. I know Snow's busy with Prince Snowflake, but it would keep her character relevant to the plot. In 3B, her wide-eyeing was a weakness (Call Zelena the Midwife), but it could also be a strength in some cases.

 

Also, I wonder if the other Frozen characters are long dead or in Storybrooke. I'm not sure how long Elsa's been cooped up in that urn. I'd gather she was in stasis age-wise, like monkey Aurora.

Edited June 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Maybe there will be multiple Robin Hood flashbacks, with Will Scarlet in some of them? That might be fun to watch.

 

We already saw Will's entire time with Robin Hood in that flashback in "Once Upon a Time in Wonderland", and unfortunately, it didn't make Robin Hood all that much more interesting to me.  I suppose Will could have reconnected with Robin again after returning from Wonderland.

 

As for 

Anna and Kristoffe. There is no way the show will dare to kill them off. As others have speculated, they probably need rescuing. I don't think they will be in Storybrooke, since that would sideline Emma, Snow, Charming, etc. Anna can't be the one to connect with Elsa. It would have to be Snow, as you suggested, or maybe Hook/Emma, Charming, Belle or maybe Red if she's back full-time.

[ShadowFacts]

 

Even from a "they grew apart" or a "we're different people now" perspective it doesn't work for me because they were separated and these changes occurred due to Regina's reign of terror.

The grew apart or we're different people perspectives don't work at all for me either because Robin specifically said he would have walked through hell for Marian but had to move ahead after she was gone.  Since she's not gone, and the separation wasn't voluntary and all Regina's doing, I expect him to walk right back to Marian.  That's the only thing that makes a lick of sense to me.  Hot Regina, a few "dates", or not.  He is shown as having been totally committed to Marian.

 

As to Will, if they have to pair him up with anyone, maybe Red.  But I hope for no pairing at all.  He worked very well as a sidekick and true friend to Alice and I think these Storybrookians sorely need friends.  Saucy, charismatic friends, all the better.  Enough with the romances.

[Shanna Marie]

Also, I wonder if the other Frozen characters are long dead or in Storybrooke. I'm not sure how long Elsa's been cooped up in that urn. I'd gather she was in stasis age-wise, like monkey Aurora.

Yeah, that sounds like a potential magical stasis situation, which means if the other Frozen characters weren't in either the Coradome or Storybrooke (or wherever Zelena apparently was), she's going to be more than 30 years ahead of them. In my head, when I've played out various scenarios (it's a hobby), I've pondered the idea that something went wrong with her magic and her whole kingdom was "frozen." Then she was urned because she was considered dangerous. She'll have to be helped by our gang so that she can unfreeze her kingdom. And I've wondered if that similar urn on the Jolly Roger might be where Anna was imprisoned (and Hook had no idea, just thought it was an urn, because even at his worst, I don't see him keeping someone locked up like that unless it was going to help him kill Rumple), so then he has to get the Jolly Roger back to get the urn and free Anna in order to help Elsa find the power of love and then free her whole kingdom. Sort of like the traditional Sleeping Beauty story in which the whole kingdom is put to sleep, only with ice (and no freezer burn). Then we could have a fun swashbuckling adventure with Hook and Emma. I also want a pony (really, I want a dragon, but it might annoy the neighbors).

[Souris]

My head canon is that Elsa lost control of her magic again when something happened to Anna. I also doubt Disney would allow for killing either sister, so I imagine the "something" that happened to Anna was that she disappeared/was urned up. Or perhaps both sisters were urned up at the same time. (Could Anna and Kristoff be in the same urn? They're not exactly bound by the laws of matter and physics here.) Hans is the obvious choice of villain, perhaps in some sort of cahoots with Rumple. So it could have happened any number of years ago, with the sisters being held in magical stasis at the age they were when they were urned up. Perhaps Hans took Anna's urn and Rumple took Elsa's and put it in the vault, since she was the "dangerous" one. Hook could've come into possession of the urn when the Jolly Roger pirated Hans' ship, been unable to open a magically sealed urn and had no idea what/who was in it. So I agree, it's back to the Enchanted Forest to get the Jolly Roger (or at least the urn) back from whoever he traded it to.

 

I have ideas that I hope I get around to writing fanfic for before too many spoilers start coming in. 

 

(A dragon could come in handy during an eternal winter.)

Edited June 26, 2014 by Souris

[KingOfHearts]

 

so then he has to get the Jolly Roger back to get the urn and free Anna in order to help Elsa find the power of love

Makes me wonder who Hook could have possibly traded the Jolly Roger with. Maybe it was a hush-hush deal, and Hook doesn't even know his identity. Not just anyone has a magic bean to trade, and not just anyone would want the Jolly Roger. Who would be out of the curse's range, anyway? I hope sacrificing Hook's most valuable possession isn't just another throwaway. 

 

While I'm thinking of Emma/Hook having to realm-hop again to get to the ship, do Storybrookians still desire to return home? If all it takes is tearing up the scroll, you'd think someone desperate to get back would attempt it. Everyone and their dog knows about Regina's vault, anyway. I hope the question of staying in Storybrooke (as far as the FTL characters are concerned) comes up again. 

 

I realized that Henry is the only person in the cast to have never been to EF. Ironic, since he believes in it more than anyone else.

Edited June 26, 2014 by KingOfHearts

[Camera One]

Emma and Hook were fine in the season finale, but I kind of don't want to see another adventure with just the two of them.  

[Souris]

I'm suspecting that if this scenario plays out, Hook might end up back in the Enchanted Forest with Elsa chasing the Jolly Roger rather against his will, and Emma and whoever (probably David, perhaps one other person) will end up going after him. So she gets her turn crossing realms to find him.

 

Who could Hook have traded the Jolly Roger to for a bean? This may be an unpopular opinion, but I hope like hell it wasn't Blackbeard. I just never thought he fit into the show, being an actual historical person, and his character wasn't all that interesting IMO. My possibilities include Ursula, Davy Jones or some heretofore unintroduced character -- OUAT's version of Jabba the Hutt. Whoever it is could be the Big Bad for 4B.

 

I'm still uncertain how Will is going to fit into the show as a regular. I can come up with several recurring ways that work, but not to weave him into the story fully. Unless he has some tie to Elsa.

[Serena]

Emma and Hook were fine in the season finale, but I kind of don't want to see another adventure with just the two of them.  

I absolutely loved E/H in the finale, but there are so many character pairings in the cast that would be interesting to send off to an adventure, people who haven't really interacted before. Hook and Snow would be hilarious. What about Emma and David? Or all four, and Regina gets stuck babysitting baby Neal (*shudder*).

[legaleagle53]

I am curious to hear people's ideas on how the Knave will be shoehorned in here. I mean, clearly something to do with Robin, but what? Will he get his own storyline? Will Marian fall in love with him, clearing the way for Regina? Between him and Marian and Elsa (and maybe others from Frozen?), they are introducing quite a few new characters in 4a. 

 

Having Marian fall in love with him would be problematic, as he's already married to the Red Queen (Anastasia) in Wonderland (in fact, they both now rule Wonderland as the White King and Queen).  In fact, when we saw his Storybrooke apartment in Wonderland, it actually had something of a shrine to Anastasia in it (and this was before they were married!).

[stealinghome]

I think the key word here is "shoehorned": whatever they do with the Knave, it's not going to feel organic, because bringing him over isn't organic. I get that Michael Socha was the best part of a bad series, but really, where is the logic in bringing him over? I'm sure the like 5 people in Once: Wonderland's huge fanbase [/sarcasm] that watched the spinoff but not the mothership are totally, totally, totally going to come over to the mothership now, just for him!

 

Not.

 

I'm actually thinking that the Knave may play into the Final Destination stuff. The end of Once: Wonderland was all about the, like, "this person can't die because it's not their time, you can't fight fate" crap, right? Ten bucks says he somehow becomes involved in the Marian stuff and brings up those issues that they floated in the spinoff.

Edited June 26, 2014 by stealinghome

[Mari]

Before they brought Marian back, I thought the logical story to separate Regina/Robin would be he was kidnapped/cursed, and the Knave would be part of the quest to get Robin back.  Obviously, that's probably not happening any more. 

 

Could the Knave be pushed into the Frozen backstory?  We don't know how long Elsa was in the urn, and it was at the very least several years precurse.  Could he be descended from someone in the story--maybe a child or nephew, or doing double duty as a character from the story?  I'm truly doubting a love story for him, because his seemed really settled with Anastasia, but could he be an ex of Elsa or a character from Frozen?

[Serena]

I think the popular theory was something to do with his sister, because she died in a frozen lake. So - else lost control of her powers and killed her? So he'll come to SB when he hears that his sister's killer is there, looking for revenge (or at least to help neutralize her).

[ShadowFacts]

I would hate seeing Will on a vengeance quest.  Helping neutralize would be okay, but if I recall he recounted his sister's death briefly, without bitterness, to Alice.  Another retcon would be unwelcome to me but I suppose many viewers wouldn't know the difference having not seen 'Wonderland'.

[Camera One]

I don't see him as the vengeance type either.  But unfortunately, to bring back a character, they would probably need to give him some major emotional problems which would be overcome later.  Even having him come over to the show because his sister was frozen by Elsa still feels like shoehorning.  I mean, what do you need Will for which Charming, or Hook, or Emma, or Red, Leroy or Granny, can't already do?

 

So what is people's speculation about how the show will try to cater to fans who are watching "Once Upon A Time" for the FIRST time because of "Frozen"?  If that's the case, how would they structure the season premiere, so it's "Frozen"-heavy yet "introduces" all the existing characters and still servicing them?  

Edited June 26, 2014 by Camera One

[legaleagle53]

I would hate seeing Will on a vengeance quest.  Helping neutralize would be okay, but if I recall he recounted his sister's death briefly, without bitterness, to Alice.  Another retcon would be unwelcome to me but I suppose many viewers wouldn't know the difference having not seen 'Wonderland'.

 

It would, however, explain why he's in Storybrooke but Anastasia isn't, especially since she also has family here (she's still Cinderella's stepsister, even though she doesn't get along with her mother any better than Cinderella ever did).  She would most definitely understand that as his reason for leaving her behind (and would probably give him her blessing, after she gave up trying to talk him out of it).

[stealinghome]

Rewinding a little bit, but:

I absolutely loved E/H in the finale, but there are so many character pairings in the cast that would be interesting to send off to an adventure, people who haven't really interacted before. Hook and Snow would be hilarious. What about Emma and David? Or all four, and Regina gets stuck babysitting baby Neal (*shudder*).

I'm very torn on the idea of dividing the cast up and sending them off on different adventures. On the one hand, if the show picks the pairings correctly and forces people who don't usually interact to do so--Emma and David (the show did this a wee bit in 3A and it worked well), David and Regina, Hook and Snow, Rumpel and Snow, Regina or Rumpel and Hook, David or Emma and Rumpel, etc (and even Emma and Snow might really benefit from this right now)--it could be entertaining. One of the biggest problems, imo, is that the show has fallen into having characters only interact with the same 2-3 other characters; splitting them up could be a good way to make people who don't usually interact do so. And if the show uses this as a "bottle" opportunity, to make pairs such as David and Emma or Snow and Emma actually talk about their feelings, it could be really good.

 

On the other hand, I feel like one of the show's real strengths is the chemistry all the cast members share, and breaking them off into smaller groups for more than an episode or two goes away from that strength. (Plus I don't trust the writers not to default to the "normal" pairs--Emma and Regina, Emma and Hook, Snow and Regina, Emma and Regina, Snowing.) And as I don't at all trust the writers to actually make use of the opportunity to make the characters talk through their ish, I'm pretty sure we'd just get a redux of the frustrating parts of Team Princess or Neverland, where you just had characters running from one end of the forest to the other incessantly, wasting the whole point of the "bottle" to begin with. And frankly, I'm tired of the "xx people have to go to yy place! Then they must try to get home!" plot. "Someone stranded in another land" was the central plot in 2A and 3A both. Let's do something different.

 

And that's not even touching the pacing/plotting issues the show faces when they try to juggle Storybrooke, another land, and fairybacks.

 

So I guess what I'm saying is that if they could do this in a way that would be more like Manhattan--where they send an "odd couple" away for a 2-3 episode mission and then they come back and use the opportunity to really delve into characters and relationships--I'd be all for it. But I just don't trust that that would happen.

[Shanna Marie]

If the whole gang is in Storybrooke -- and it would be nice to get a glimpse of what "normal" life in Storybrooke is like in Curse 2 -- then I'm all for mixing and matching the characters. I'd love to throw Mary Margaret and Hook together because I think she's the last one to warm to him at all, and him on his best behavior because he wants to impress her for Emma's sake would be good for lots of fun. I'd like to see Henry attempting to bond with Gold as his grandpa and see how that goes. David and Regina would be an interesting match, with his self-deprecating snark and her mean snark. I'd like to see our swashbuckling guys -- Robin, David and Hook -- teaming up. I'd love to see both Hook and Emma learn that David is actually an imposter, that he isn't really "Prince James" even in the Enchanted Forest.

 

But if the stuff about the urn on the Jolly Roger being related to Elsa isn't just much tumblring about nothing and it involves a cross-worlds journey, especially for multiple episodes, I wouldn't want to split Hook and Emma up because the separation very likely would be used to manufacture angst and drama and put the brakes on the relationship (flashbacks of them splitting up David and Snow within about five minutes of the curse breaking and them finding each other again). If it's going to end up being about them anyway, I'd much rather they be working together, getting to know each other better and developing their relationship while on an adventure together than be angsting and pining during a separation. Besides, I think she should be part of any mission to get the ship back, not because she owes him, but because she cares about him and knows what a sacrifice it was, so she'd want to be part of finding it again.

[retrograde]

I'd love to throw Mary Margaret and Hook together because I think she's the last one to warm to him at all

I fully expect her to give him the "break her heart and I will kill you" speech over David. And I fully expect him to look genuinely scared.

[stealinghome]

But if the stuff about the urn on the Jolly Roger being related to Elsa isn't just much tumblring about nothing and it involves a cross-worlds journey, especially for multiple episodes, I wouldn't want to split Hook and Emma up because the separation very likely would be used to manufacture angst and drama and put the brakes on the relationship.... If it's going to end up being about them anyway, I'd much rather they be working together, getting to know each other better and developing their relationship while on an adventure together than be angsting and pining during a separation.

Speaking as someone who doesn't ship Captain Swan: I totally understand why you feel this way, but I would hate if the show went in this direction. For being basically a 2-hour Captain Swan movie, the S3 finale was...fine...as a one-off. But I'd be bored as hell if we had endless episodes of Emma and Hook only interacting with each other. The relationships I care about are the core Charming family's, so splitting Emma off from both of her parents and Henry? That would be the fastest way for Once to lose its metaphorical season pass in my TV line-up. (Well, one of the fastest. Probably the fastest possible is if they actually canonized Our Lady of Woobification Woegina, or "He Was Worth All Of It" Rumpel.)

Edited June 27, 2014 by stealinghome

[Souris]

I really want/like the idea of Emma crossing realms to find Hook, but I agree that I wouldn't want the separation to last very long -- an ep or two, not half the half-season or anything. Too long would fall into the manufactured angst camp. (Alas, which means they'll probably do it.) I mean, technically the cursed-lips things didn't last more than a few eps, but it felt like for-freaking-ever. I don't want something like that again, it was so contrived.

 

I definitely want some Hook/Snow interaction.

 

Henry/Gold is something that needs to happen.

 

If Emma's wanting to work on her magic, would she turn to Rumple, since she's likely not going to want to ask Regina now?

[KAOS Agent]

See I don't like the idea of Hook trying to impress Snow. She can judge him on his recent actions to help save her family and especially how he treats her daughter or she can suck it. Snow liked Neal because he had some lucky sperm without ever really considering that Emma had repeatedly expressed to her that Neal wasn't a great guy, so I'd rather Snow just deal with the idea that Hook & Emma are a thing and no one go out of their way to impress Snow. 

[Camera One]

She can judge him on his recent actions to help save her family and especially how he treats her daughter or she can suck it.

 

We've already seen Snow speaking about Hook positively to Ariel in 3B.  

[retrograde]

Yeah, I don't see Hook trying to impress Snow. Even while in love with her daughter, he doesn't seem to be able to help himself acting like a bit of a jerk to/around her (from that squicky "harvest/planting" comment to the crack about her being demanding to asking why David didn't stay with Katherine for the gold). I think David will/has softened on Hook, but Hook and Snow will continue to snark at each other. As they should. 

[kitticup]

Have you ever seen the Real House Husbands of StoryBrook?  They are funny and one of the common themes is that Snow doesn't like Hook that much while David is all about being Hook's buddy.

 

I like Hook and Snow together.  She gets to be tough and he gets to be a swarmy in a very hilarious (at least to me) way.  I would want that to stay.  I can see them respecting each other but it would be nice to have some edge in that relationship.

[stealinghome]

Have you ever seen the Real House Husbands of StoryBrook?  They are funny and one of the common themes is that Snow doesn't like Hook that much while David is all about being Hook's buddy.

Ha, I love that "series"! Captain Charming isn't even my brotp, but it's too funny!

[RadioGirl27]

Before they brought Marian back, I thought the logical story to separate Regina/Robin would be he was kidnapped/cursed, and the Knave would be part of the quest to get Robin back.  Obviously, that's probably not happening any more. 

This is what I was thinking too, but now I can't find a way to include him on the show.

Anyway, are we sure he is coming in 4A and that he is going to be a regular? If the Frozen thing was an afterthought (and I'm pretty sure it was), maybe they have changed their plans and they introduce him in 4B, related to the new baddie.

[FurryFury]

Anyway, are we sure he is coming in 4A and that he is going to be a regular?

 

I think it was definitely stated he was to be a series regular for the whole season, at least. I've no idea so far how he's going to be introduced. Maybe they want him to feature heavily in 4B and he'll be in the background for the first half-season? Like, say, Ruby/Red in season 1, there, but without much to do.

[Serena]

I think "series regular" means at least 13 episodes, so it could be that he'll be in all 11 episodes of 4B, and just a couple in 4A. He could be a Belle-sized regular. That would be the best for the show. I'm sure he's entertaining, but I just don't care about him. And the people who do care about him want him to be happily ever after with Ana, so who is gonna be happy to see him?

[FurryFury]

Well, I do care about him. Not much, but he was fun from what I've seen on Wonderland. And I certainly don't care about Ana, didn't like the actress at all. However, I'd feel much better about Will if we didn't have Robin, a character still with zero personality and a similar (roguish) character type. Hook's also a rogue, but he's less in danger of being surpassed by a more colorful character played by a better actor than Robin is.

[KingOfHearts]

As far as Frozen goes, it may help the overall plot if it has enough connections with the rest of the cast. Peter Pan worked because Neverland was relevant to several of the characters. (Rumple, Neal, Regina w/ Tinkerbell, Snow w/ Ariel, Hook, etc.) Zelena, however, only had small connections with Regina and Rumple. Their arcs before 3B wouldn't have changed if she didn't exist. Neverland, however, had its hands in many areas of the development of the characters and the timeline.

 

If Elsa is strong and likable, she may be a valid character to add to the show. Otherwise, she's just a cash cow representing all the Disney product placement in Once.

[Camera One]

From the Spoiler thread:

I agree that they are not under the literal constraints of any Frozen2. They have built their entire program around messing with the rules and fracturing the fairy tales.

 

What I think the real problem with bringing Elsa in is that it is so immediate and tied to her tremendous popularity NOW. Those parents who tune in anew with their younger, Elsa-adoring children may be a tad shocked with the premise, and do more damage than good for the rep of the show. Those of us who hang around Storybrooke anyway won't be surprised by the flip flop characterizations of established literary/legendary/fairy tale figures, but new fans might be a bit shocked, dismayed, or overly protective of their beloved Disney princesses.(and let's face it...Disney is a business. Their diehard fans' money/happiness is what talks. )

 

Risky move for A&E.

Do we think that bringing in Frozen is going to actually give the show a ratings bump one way or the other, though? I'm very skeptical.

Whether or not Frozen boosts viewership is probably dependent on the amount of marketing they end up doing for it.

 

 

Risky move for A&E.

 

It is kind of risky, in that catering too much to "Frozen" could drive away some existing viewers.  Though at this point in presumably the past-midpoint of the show's run, the loyalists will stay and the "Frozen" factor might increase interest and bring new viewers in or old viewers back.  I don't think "Once Upon a Time" is the type of show that is easy to "jump" into even if some tries it out because of "Frozen".  The Marion situation will be complicated to explain, and even the Rumple/Belle situation, for a completely new viewer.  In addition, curiosity-watchers tend not to stay. 

 

There was a huge publicity campaign for "Wicked" coming to "Once" and the ratings were about the level of "Quite a Common Fairy" (third episode in 3A).  So it basically seemed to bring back the viewers who quit partway through Neverland, and by "The Tower" (third episode in 3B), ratings had fallen back to levels of late-3A.  The draw of "Frozen" will be slightly more than "Wicked" (plus fall premieres always draw more people), but the trick, as usual, will be whether the writing can sustain and keep these curiosity watchers.

Edited June 28, 2014 by Camera One

[Wandering1]

Well, I do care about him. Not much, but he was fun from what I've seen on Wonderland. And I certainly don't care about Ana, didn't like the actress at all. However, I'd feel much better about Will if we didn't have Robin, a character still with zero personality and a similar (roguish) character type. Hook's also a rogue, but he's less in danger of being surpassed by a more colorful character played by a better actor than Robin is.

Wow, I couldn't disagree more. I love Robin. He has a ton of personality and charm. Looking forward to seeing how his character develops in S4.