S01.E12: I Can't Leave Her

[dewrays]

I wonder what if one of the sensate was a serial killer , or a cluster of serial killers. That would be same killing  pattern across the world. 

[Unusual Suspect]

Badass moment of the series.

 

Will: Shit. Four guards.

Sun: Is that all?

 

QFT.

 

Actually, every time another of the Cluster stepped up, I might have punched the air. I love this show.

 

After all the (fairly weak, to me) relationship drama, Kala really stepped up, between the bomb making and medical know-how.

[tennisgurl]

Finally binged through the entire show, and holy crap did I love this show! Reviewers really need to give this one a second look. It just gets better and better, especially when you start getting into both the characters, and the mythology. 

 

Every time another member of the group tagged in to help out, I straight up cheered. Love how everyone got to pitch in to help out. Especially loved Lito turning on the charm, and winking at Noomi and Will! And then when Will is all "yeah, I wont hurt people..." then Wolfgang showed up, I laughed and cheered so hard I think I scared my roommate. 

 

I cant wait for season 2. I want to know more about Whispers and his evil plans. Like...what are his evil plans? lobotomize and control the sensates? Would that ruin their connection, or if they were all lobotomized and controlled, would that mean he could tap into all their skills, and create one, hive mind human weapon made of 8 people? But how many skills would they have after the surgery? The guy he was controlling was pretty much a walking vegetable. Would it be different if he had a whole cluster? Because, if that is his evil plan, that`s a pretty scary thought.  

 

Cant wait for season 2! 

[jhlipton]

When does season 2 start?  I am so totally there!

 

The title and the "elevator pitch" made this sound like an science fiction show, but it's more of an in-depth character study -- 8 individuals and the people in  their lives, and how they all bring something to the group.  Riley is their heart, their emotional connection.  I hope she's more than that next season though.

 

Every jam they get into, I am on  tenterhooks wondering who will get them out.  I love these people!

[samhalliwell]

When does season 2 start?  I am so totally there!

 

The title and the "elevator pitch" made this sound like an science fiction show, but it's more of an in-depth character study -- 8 individuals and the people in  their lives, and how they all bring something to the group.  Riley is their heart, their emotional connection.  I hope she's more than that next season though.

 

Every jam they get into, I am on  tenterhooks wondering who will get them out.  I love these people!

 

Co-sign on everything, so very much! I need to log onto the Webz some day real soon (as in, tomorrow, Netflix!) and read that this got renewed, so much.

 

I actually binged it while checking out threads here (at least the first 6 eps, the others were one sit-through), and it was really fun (besides the trying to skip any spoilers from following eps, lol). I have always had an easy to become attached to fictional characters and love when the writing centers more on them than in *plot plot plot*, as that can sometimes lead to bad characterization and/or cause detatchment as things seem to no longer ring true or carry weight (Once Upon a Time became my poster-show for this this year, sadly).

 

I love how this show did a complete reversal of the usual formula in sci-fi/fantasy shows: instead of hitting us over the head with mythology and plot and impossibly high stakes from the get-go, it showed us who these 8 people are as well as their relationships and mundane lives, so that we would probably care enough when stuff got intense. I can see how some people would be put off by that, but personally I loved it.

 

I admit that Riley's story did seem to drag as she got saddled with a more traditionally frustrating to watch Damsel in Distress plot at the end (in contrast with Nomi, although in her case things hadn't escalated that much). However, this last episode really did work for me as a way to justify her passiveness, with her whole tragedy laid out in graphically painful and gory detail. 

 

I really hope the next season deals with the Cluster both helping Will/defeating Whispers and acting as a sort of constant, 24/7 group therapy for each other. I think Capheus' (awesomely and almost implausibly permanent) positivity, Nomi and now Lito's sense of self-affirmation and Kala's spirituality could really allow Riley, Wolfgang and Sun to work through their anger/sadness/distorted sense of who they are, depending on each of their receptiveness; I am actually more invested in the personal growth of the Sens8 both as a Cluster and as individuals and the possibility of seeing new/different Cluster mechanics at work with the Main 8 than in the whole Whispers/Yrsa/Sayid/Daryl Hannah chain of mysteries.

 

So yeah, Netflix: Season 2, ASAP, please :)!

[Amelie06]

I disliked this show for the first four or five episodes. I found it intermittently interesting, but an overall bore. And then somehow, it got better or I finally bought in. By the time I reached the finale, I was thoroughly enjoying the show. I was also fist pumping every time another person appeared to help rescue Riley. The use of each of the characters was terrific. It was in keeping with their personalities and fit in seamlessly. So basically, everyone is in one everyone else's drama? Because I was a little surprised when Wolfgang showed up given the fact that he had been distracted by that mansion massacre and no one seemed to be talking to him about saving Riley.

 

I also think there is more going on with Wolfgang and his father. The only thing we were shown was that the man was physically abusive. But after that, Wolf choked him to death and set his body on fire. I just don't see him holding on to things for this long with this amount of rage unless we haven't gotten the whole picture.

 

It would have been a harsh result, but I wouldn't have minded if Riley died in this episode. I kind of got why she didn't have any will to live after that traumatic event.

 

I don't know how I feel about Mr. Whispers. What kind of life does this man lead?

 

Netflix better make a second season. They gave Hemlock Grove a second season and that show got terrible reviews and was legitimately awful.

 

I need Sun to get released from that prison. She deserves better than to be stuck in the prison for the rest of the show.

[jhlipton]

her whole tragedy laid out in graphically painful and gory detail. 

 

1) While watching, I kept thinking "Magnis, getting her to the hospital in one pice is more important than glancing at her.  Yo're driving way too fast on an icy road  -- keep your eyes on the road and your hands upon the wheel."  I knew he wouldn't but the fact that the accident seemed so easily avoidable kind of bugged me.

 

2) Riley saying "Not these mountains on the Road to Nowhere -- as Nomi put it -- made me wunder where the heck she, Magnus and Luke were driving from and to, anyway?  Why were they in such a remote location?

[samhalliwell]

jhlipton, I think both those things you mentioned are a clear example of when to self-enforce Willing Suspension of Disbelief. They needed a good reason for Riley to be sheltered and numb, so her backstory had to be heartbreaking, Greek-level tragic and pure nightmare fuel (at which the show succeded, at least for me).

 

Also, the production people probably went 'Hey, we're already going out of our way to shoot in 9 different places, how about we integrate the settings and landscapes so that they're as key to the plot as the characters?' And so, Riley's story becomes (IMO) the logical extreme of all that: Why on Earth were she and her husband driving through a secluded mountain road at nighttime during a snowstorm? Because it gives the scene a foreshadow-y dreadful tone and effectively weaponizes Icelandic weather and land, feeding Riley's fear of returning there (like the beach and cave scenes).

 

So, why did Magnus make all possible driver mistakes and got them all in a fatal car crash? You could say the worry for his family, panic over the screaming wife and sheer surprise of water breaking ahead of schedule are the reason, but really, it's what the story needed to advance Riley's character. (Not that they couldn't have had an accident even after driving competently as can totally happen IRL, but yeah, *drama*).

[Portia4844]

I thought the car crash happened when she was saying how cold she was and he was trying to take off his jacket or hand it to her. But, I'll have to re-watch as my impression could be wrong.

Riley's backstory was so tragic. Hopefully, season 2 will include her healing and becoming more than someone needing to be rescued.

[jhlipton]

jhlipton, I think both those things you mentioned are a clear example of when to self-enforce Willing Suspension of Disbelief.

I agree, and noticing these things didn't diminish the tragedy that Riley suffered.  Her standing in the middle of that "beautiful and terrifying" snow field was so such a great shot.  I'm willing to forgive this show a great  multitude of sins, because it gets so very many things right.  

 

These were more "Hey, wait a minute..." moments.

[Sakura12]

I thought Riley was in labor and they were driving to the hospital? That's why they were driving at night in the middle of a snowstorm. 

[90PercentGravity]

But why were they on top of a mountain in the middle of nowhere?

[Amelie06]

 

I thought the car crash happened when she was saying how cold she was and he was trying to take off his jacket or hand it to her. But, I'll have to re-watch as my impression could be wrong.

I think the accident happened after he took the jacket off. He was staring at her and not watching the snowy, icy road. As soon as he took off the jacket, all I could think was "No!!! Haven't these fools seen that Coldplay video? Never take off your seatbelt."

 

I also question why they were on that lonely road. The evil organization seems to be only a few minutes drive from where the accident occurred. So Riley was living that closely to that isolated secret government complex? That's weird.

[jhlipton]

So Riley was living that closely to that isolated secret government complex? That's weird.

 

And Nomi said that the road Will took led nowhere.  And you could see, both times, there weren't nothing for miles.  I think they decided that Riley's due any minute so it's a good time to go camping in the middle of nowhere!  LOL

[Chaos Theory]

I agree, and noticing these things didn't diminish the tragedy that Riley suffered. Her standing in the middle of that "beautiful and terrifying" snow field was so such a great shot. I'm willing to forgive this show a great multitude of sins, because it gets so very many things right.

These were more "Hey, wait a minute..." moments.

Which is why I try not to nitpick. There are shows with truck like holes in them and there are shows that need to put people in places and find illogical but.....stupid human tricks reasons to do it. I've seen real life people do dumber stuff then go camping while pregnant so.....

[janie jones]

I need Sun to get released from that prison. She deserves better than to be stuck in the prison for the rest of the show.

This is very true.  But whenever Sun comes on, I can't help thinking that she's got a pretty sweet deal for someone who's in jail for a crime she didn't commit.  She gets to travel all over the world whenever she feels like it.  While the other prisoners are staring at the ceiling or whatever, she's watching some fireworks in Chicago or attending a concert in Reykjavik. 

[jhlipton]

She gets to travel all over the world whenever she feels like it.  While the other prisoners are staring at the ceiling or whatever, she's watching some fireworks in Chicago or attending a concert in Reykjavik.

 

Getting a tour of downtown Nairobi.  Visiting a monument to the Holocaust in [berlin?].  Enjoying the shrines and other views of Bombay Mumbai.  And visiting the backstage of a movie set in Mexico City.

[Boundary]

Sun travels the world more than a free person does, lol.

 

 

And Nomi said that the road Will took led nowhere.  And you could see, both times, there weren't nothing for miles.  I think they decided that Riley's due any minute so it's a good time to go camping in the middle of nowhere!  LOL

 

I definitely think there's more to be revealed about why Riley, heavily pregnant, was where she was. Besides grief, I sensed that she kinda blamed herself for what happened to them. Of course, even that might be a result of what that older woman sensate told her, that she was cursed (or hexed?) - a cruel thing to do to someone, even for their own good.

 

Why hasn't this been renewed yet? Netflix!

Edited July 3, 2015 by Boundary

[Athena]

Did we forget the drug dealer that is after Riley? He was a weird one, but that's a lot of unfinished business.

 

I liked this show because it reminds me a lot of Cloud Atlas. I loved Doona Bae in that and Sun is definitely one my favourite, if not my favourite. I also really like Wolfgang (my new messed up TV boyfriend), Lito, Capheus (he is fantastic with his other sensates) and Nomi. Nomi really grew on me after she got out of the hospital and started doing her Trinity thing. Neets/Martha Jones is fantastic as well. The supporting cast was great.

 

I like Will. I like Kala. It's not that I dislike Riley or the actress, but for some reason, she's not compelling to me. From the beginning, she's been cast as the most spiritual one and probably the one who would be able to birth, but I'm not interested in her. I found watching her be a damsel and her angsty past really difficult even though I liked a lot of her storyline from London to Reykjavik.

 

I adore the characters and the mythos so I hope the show gets another season.

[Protar]

A very good finale, and a very good season over all.

 

I've had a few problems with the show certainly - I was disappointed that there are clearly tiers of sensates. Will, Nomi and Riley are clearly way more central to the main plot than the others. Sun and Capheus sort of act as accessories to that central trio, Kala and Wolfgang are in their own little pairing and Lito barely interacts with the other Sensates at all until the end. I really hope that in season 2 (which I really hope exists), they give more equal time to the sensates and start exploring new pairings we haven't seen before. How do Capheus and Lito interact? Nomi and Kala? etc. etc. Perhaps if Will is in an induced coma for much of season 2, and Riley spends much of the season looking after him, that will allow the focus to shift more towards the other sensates. 

 

Some speculation on the myth arc - I think it's going to be humans vs. sensates. Jonas is a sensate supremacist, whereas BPO is a human lead organisation which sees the dangers (and uses) of sensates and has hired a few traitorous sensates (like Whispers) to hunt down the others. Both sides will have a point. 

 

I'd quite like to see the introduction of a new cluster - not explored as in-depth as the main one, but maybe a rival cluster. There's some potential for some amazing 8 vs 8 sensate battles. The coordination of the different sensate abilities is one of the strong points of the series. It makes the fight scenes so unique and it's really satisfying. My favourite multi-sensate scenes would have to include the "what's going on" scene, Nomi escaping the feds in episode 8 and the finale.

[Protar]

Now that I've finished the show I thought I'd give some general ideas/theories/speculations about where the show could be going next season. Spoilers:

As I've said, I think that the main arc will be Humans vs. Sensates. Jonas wants Sensate supremacy, BPO wants to secure Human's position by hiring a few traitorous sensates to hunt down their kin. Whispers is not the leader of BPO (and indeed BPO is likely just a front), he's just a puppet of the humans. Likewise Jonas may not be the leader of the Sensate supremacists. Yrsa (the icelandic sensate who interacts with Riley) is of a third faction trying to mediate things. According to Yrsa, Jonas used to work with BPO. Either he had a change of heart, he was a double agent, or he willingly works with BPO at times to eliminate dissident sensate clusters which he cannot manipulate.

Now that "our" sensates know the stakes, they will all become much more focused on the conspiracy, though they will still have their own personal stories. I think that it would be good, logistically that is, to trim the amount of locations down to like five, by pairing up some of the sensates. In Iceland, Riley looks after Will. The focus here will be on their romance and Will's past with the mysterious girl who died. This plot will mostly be on the backburner for the first half to two thirds of the season: Because he's made eye contact with Whispers, Will cannot safely contact the others. But late season he will enact a plan to use his connection to turn the tables and hunt Whispers down.

As Lito's sexuality comes to light, he moves north to LA and gets work in North American films which are a bit more tolerant of his sexuality. He becomes something of a gay icon and a champion for LGBT rights (you know there's going to be more LGBT themed plots and that's not a problem for me :) ). Nomi takes refuge in LA as well.

Capheus' story continues in Nairobi. Kala hooks him up with a supply of medicine for his mother and his story instead focuses on finding his sister. As being a sensate seems to be genetic, she could be part of a second cluster. I don't think Neets is Capheus' sister, she's too old. Meanwhile in India the pharmaceutical company Kala works with is revealed to be connected to BPO.

Wolfgang moves to Seoul to escape his Uncle's allies (not India - his relationship with Kala is pretty fraught at the moment). Sun is still in jail but the other sensates plan to get her out. Nomi's hacking and Wolfgang's street smarts uncover her brother's lies to the public and set Sun free. The Sensates now have a powerful company on their side. The korean mob could be involved, giving Wolfgang a could avenue to utilise his skills.

[jhlipton]

Nomi takes refuge in LA as well.

Meanwhile in India the pharmaceutical company Kala works with is revealed to be connected to BPO.

 

The korean mob could be involved, giving Wolfgang a could avenue to utilise his skills.

 

I like most of your post with the exceptions noted:

 

SF is one of the most gay and trans friendly cities in the US.  It's also a beautiful city, always full of surprises.  I love LA, but it is a totally different vibe.I'd prefer from Nomi and Neets to stay in SF.

 

I'm not sure that connecting everyone and everything to BPO works for me.  I think I'd rather have Rajan and Dad not be part of BPO.

 

"Korean Mob" is a little over-done for me.  I'd rather for them to find a use for Wolfgang that doesn't involve a mob.

[Protar]

I like most of your post with the exceptions noted:

 

SF is one of the most gay and trans friendly cities in the US.  It's also a beautiful city, always full of surprises.  I love LA, but it is a totally different vibe.I'd prefer from Nomi and Neets to stay in SF.

 

I'm not sure that connecting everyone and everything to BPO works for me.  I think I'd rather have Rajan and Dad not be part of BPO.

 

"Korean Mob" is a little over-done for me.  I'd rather for them to find a use for Wolfgang that doesn't involve a mob.

 

I just thought LA because it's hollywood so perfect for Lito to restart his acting career, and Nomi should probably move cities for safety reasons. But any American city works. I'm just thinking from a meta perspective, shooting in 9 different locations has got to be very expensive and with the mixed reviews, maybe we only get a season 2 with a reduced budget? So having two sensates per city/country would be a good idea imo.

 

I am a fan of connecting every plot to BPO or the main conspiracy in some way. And the big medical company is the obvious choice. Doesn't necessarily mean Rajan is involved in the conspiracy. The whole "nice fiance turns out to be evil to allow the canon OTP to go forward" is a bit cliche. So I'd rather he is just as he seems. I like the individual plots of each character and want them to continue but at the same time, now that they all know about Whispers and BPO, they simply can't just go on living their normal lives. 

 

I felt like the Korean mob would be the best way to utilise Wolfgang's skills. But you're right it's a tad overused and if there's some other story they could do with Wolfgang that would work too. Mainly I think they need a free man in Seoul to uncover the murder of Sun's father and Wolfgang is in the best position to do that. Maybe he gets involved in the K-pop scene? :P

[jhlipton]

I'm with you on Lito moving to LA -- his sexual orientation would be meaningless here (I live in "La Ciudad de Notre Dame de Los Angeles" -- it's original name), and cutting to 4 locations (Will & Riley: Iceland; Wolfgang & Sun: Seoul; Lito & Nomi: LA; Cepheus & Kala: Nairobi) could save a lot of money.  I picked Nairobi because I don't think it's been explored as much as Bombay Mumbai. 
 

"Any American city" doesn't quite work, since not all are very gay or trans friendly.

 

How about this: Rajan's dad's company is part of BPO, but neither of them know it?

 

Since both Sun and Wolfgang know how to fight, they become a Mixed Martial Arts couple?

[Enero]

I am a fan of connecting every plot to BPO or the main conspiracy in some way. And the big medical company is the obvious choice. Doesn't necessarily mean Rajan is involved in the conspiracy. The whole "nice fiance turns out to be evil to allow the canon OTP to go forward" is a bit cliche. So I'd rather he is just as he seems. I like the individual plots of each character and want them to continue but at the same time, now that they all know about Whispers and BPO, they simply can't just go on living their normal lives. 

 

 

 

I agree. I will be shocked if the pharmaceutical company is not involved with BPO. Being involved with them is the only thing that makes sense. As far as Rajan goes he's too perfect. I have no doubt he will not be as upstanding as he's been presented. I remember when they were questioning Kala about the attack on his father, when they tried to ask her about a man named Guru Yash, Rajan immediately shut down the interview. Who is this Guru Yash? Why didn't Rajan want them asking Kala about him? Could he in some way be connected to the BPO or some form of illegal activity Rajan and his father may have been involved with? Also, if you'll note during that interview Rajan's response and body language was very defensive and not comforting to Kala at all. He didn't look at her or touch her once during the interview, even though it was obvious she was still shaken by what happened. All that said, I think her story is in India. There is more going on here than meets the eye and I'd like to see her story continue there.

 

With regards to Capheus, he is all set with drugs for his mother. Remember the gangster whose daughter he was watching, supplied him with plenty of drugs for his mother and now that he's saved this guy's life and killed pretty much all his enemies, I'm sure the drugs needed for his mother won't be in short supply. What his story could be moving forward, I'm not sure.

 

I agree about Will and Riley, actually Will, Riley, Romi and Amanita are on the hot seat right now. They are the only ones of the cluster that have had direct contact with BPO and are on their radar. So they are going to have to be very careful about their next moves. I could easily see Romi and Amanita packing up shop and moving across the world, maybe to a location we've not seen to lay low until things cool down a bit.

 

Lito still has to deal with being exposed to the Mexican film industry as gay(whenever that happens), but I also wonder what Hernando and Dani will think of his sensate abilities or if he'll even tell them? I find it refreshing, yet strange that Dani is so willing to live her life being the third wheel, for lack of a better term, in Lito/Hernando's relationship. Doesn't she want a relationship of her own? A life outside of watching them be in love. I'm sure it's completely a long shot, because I do think she's absolutely genuine, but I do wonder if she has a nefarious agenda.

 

Sun still needs to expose her brother and get out of prison, which perhaps some of the Sensates can assist with. She has been a great help to Capheus in his time of need. It would be cool if his connection to the gangster in Nairobi will provide him with the means necessary to help her take down her brother and get out of prison.

 

Lastly Wolfgang, though he took out his uncle and his entire gang of minions, as you stated there could be allies to deal with, not to mention the authorities. Gangsters or not, surely the police will not let all those dead bodies laying around go unchecked. He may have to get the hell out of dodge for a while to escape death or prison, but then what about Felix? I can't imagine he'll leave him behind in a medical facility for a long period of time and didn't he tell the doctor at the facility to look after Felix for a few days? I don't think he had a long term plan for him, unless they let Felix die off screen. Though I don't want Felix to die, it would free Wolfgang up to roam the world without the guilt of leaving Felix behind or without him looking OOC.

 

All that said, they can definitely combine some locations to potentially cut the cost of filming. They could put Will/Amanita/Riley/Romi in the same place. Romi's skill with computers will be of great use in helping them stay off the radar (at least physically), perhaps Kala can whip up some kind of safe (no addictive) drug concoction that will help Will hide his mind from Whispers.

 

Lito can remain on his own, connecting with the other sensates mentally/emotionally when needed, as can Kala and Wolfgang.  They could Capheus and Sun in the same place (see earlier comments about how he may be able to help her). That eliminates three locations, narrowing it down to five.

Edited July 9, 2015 by Enero

[Protar]

5 locations seems good to me. In my projection of events, one could theoretically narrow things down to 4 - Kala could go to Nairobi as I think it was implied that her pharmaceutical company had work there. But at the same time, there is also stuff left to do in India. I do agree that Rajan is too perfect at the moment, but I don't want him to be all out evil. 

 

By the way Guru Yash was, I think, the Guru who gave her the pamphlet calling out against Rajan's father, and who then congratulated Kala on bringing his dad to the temple.

[jhlipton]

Lito still has to deal with being exposed to the Mexican film industry as gay(whenever that happens), but I also wonder what Hernando and Dani will think of his sensate abilities or if he'll even tell them? I find it refreshing, yet strange that Dani is so willing to live her life being the third wheel, for lack of a better term, in Lito/Hernando's relationship. Doesn't she want a relationship of her own? A life outside of watching them be in love. I'm sure it's completely a long shot, because I do think she's absolutely genuine, but I do wonder if she has a nefarious agenda.

 

Considering how we left Joaquin -- with a hard hit to tile or concrete -- I don't think Lito has anything to worry about for a while.  He may come out just to so he can be with Hernando in public, but he can do so on his own terms. I think Dani is who she says she is -- a woman who loves gay porn, and has a perfect relationship with two guys who adore her and who fulfill her sexual needs.

 

BTW, I think Neeta's girlfriend is Nomi, not Romi.

[Athena]

Lito still has to deal with being exposed to the Mexican film industry as gay(whenever that happens), but I also wonder what Hernando and Dani will think of his sensate abilities or if he'll even tell them? I find it refreshing, yet strange that Dani is so willing to live her life being the third wheel, for lack of a better term, in Lito/Hernando's relationship. Doesn't she want a relationship of her own? A life outside of watching them be in love. I'm sure it's completely a long shot, because I do think she's absolutely genuine, but I do wonder if she has a nefarious agenda.

 

I think Dani is genuine as well. I also find it refreshing for TV to showcase this kind of  relationship. I don't necessarily think this will be a long term situation for Dani living with the guys, but they have become her best friends. In their own way, they fulfill her sexually. Dani does not seem to have any genuine friends at the moment and she's just escaped an abusive relationship. The guys make her happy and they adore her. It's rather lovely.

[jhlipton]

The guys make her happy and they adore her. It's rather lovely.

 

One thing I love about this show -- if a relationship makes you happy and it's not hurting anyone, then it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, it's a good relationship!  It also stars a trans woman played by a trans woman -- that's getting a bit more common (thanks to a major extent by Laverne Cox), but still pretty rare, and directed by a trans woman I think that's all the LGBT buttons, LOL).  I just love how accepting it all is of this.

[Clanstarling]

Can someone explain to me what was the deal with Sara Patrell? This is my take but something's missing. Will saw her as a child, before Whispers killed her, which is why she could visit him. But was it the same girl Riley saw? Or did Riley see Sara in the cave and somehow with Will's latent connection Sara latched onto Will? (Personally that option doesn't work for me). 

 

 

Re: Boundary's post: I think Sara Patrell was a member of their cluster who got vivisected as a child. Certainly a sensate, but I think she was actually the ninth member. The age fits, and that would explain why she got contact with will despite him not being really "activated". Proximity and extreme stress. 

I am so confused about Sara. Was it definite that a) she died and b) that Whispers killed her? I remember seeing the missing child folder, but don't remember any resolution to that. But with so much going on in the show, I don't doubt that I missed something. I just figured, after seeing her in the finale, that she's a member of a different cluster we'll meet in the next season (I hope).

 

I don't know. The mechanics of the escape seemed to be that Whispers knew anything that Jonas knew. I think they even said that at one point. There's also that scene where he asks Jonas how they're planning on leaving the facility. Jonas says nothing, but Whispers immediately says, "Ah, the ambulance." I interpreted that as Whispers reading Jonas's mind.

 

Now that I think about it, Jonas's explanation in the previous episode for how Whispers found out Riley's location is equally troublesome. His explanation was "Will knows about her. I know Will. And Whispers knows me." Basically, Jonas knows what Will knows and Whispers knows what Jonas knows. If that's the case, then Whispers should already know where the rest of the sensates are, unless I'm missing something.

I assumed that Whispers, Jonas and what's her name, the cluster mom, were all of the same cluster themselves (they don't necessarily look the same age, but once you get to a certain age, mileage varies as to how old/young you look). Which would explain why Whispers could read Jonas. I figure neither Jonas or Whispers has told Will the complete truth about "visiting." I think Whispers' powers are less than he wants Will to know. And Jonas' motives are more complicated than he's told Will.

 

I love this show. It took me a few episodes to love it, but I do. Each of these characters is so well drawn and well acted. There is so much more to be told, both in terms of background and in terms of the immediate consequences of where the situation stands in the finale.  I don't have any particular scenarios I'd like to see. They've done a great job surprising me with this season, I'll let them surprise me next (if there is one, cross-fingers).

 

I almost didn't watch because of the Wachowskis. I loved the Matrix, but didn't much care for anything else they did. But I love JMS, and I think their collaboration has been terrific.

One thing I love about this show -- if a relationship makes you happy and it's not hurting anyone, then it doesn't matter what the rest of the world thinks, it's a good relationship!  It also stars a trans woman played by a trans woman -- that's getting a bit more common (thanks to a major extent by Laverne Cox), but still pretty rare, and directed by a trans woman I think that's all the LGBT buttons, LOL).  I just love how accepting it all is of this.

Me too. Though I'm not sure it hits the "B" button. Did I miss a Bi character? (the orgy doesn't count - LOL)

Edited July 10, 2015 by clanstarling

[jhlipton]

I almost didn't watch because of the Wachowskis. I loved the Matrix, but didn't much care for anything else they did. But I love JMS, and I think their collaboration has been terrific.

Me too. Though I'm not sure it hits the "B" button. Did I miss a Bi character? (the orgy doesn't count - LOL)

 

That's funny -- I almost didn't watch because of JMS.  (I tried a few episodes of the second season of B5 -- everyone said not to watch the first) and just couldn't get into it.)

 

Bi...   Hmmmmm...  Yeah, no definitely bi characters yet.  Nomi and Neeta are possibles but doubtful. So probably no B's. [sad face]

 

(I would love it if Hernando was bi -- he gets off watching Dani masturbate, while she gets off watching him with Lito! But I sincerely doubt that he is.)  Speaking just for myself, the scene where Dani was getting off was hot -- she is GORGEOUS!!!!!!  

Edited July 11, 2015 by jhlipton

[Clanstarling]

That's funny -- I almost didn't watch because of JMS.  (I tried a few episodes of the second season of B5 -- everyone said not to watch the first) and just couldn't get into it.)

 

Bi...   Hmmmmm...  Yeah, no definitely bi characters yet.  Nomi and Neeta are possibles but doubtful. So probably no B's. [sad face]

 

(I would love it if Hernando was bi -- he gets off watching Dani masturbate, while she gets off watching him with Lito! But I sincerely doubt that he is.)  Speaking just for myself, the scene where Dani was getting off was hot -- she is GORGEOUS!!!!!!  

I don't think B5 has aged well, unfortunately. But it took more than a few episodes to get into it and understand the dynamics (and to get over the silly hair and lizard skin). If you miss the first season, you miss the foundation that drives the rest of the series. Those episodes may not have been as good - I don't really remember, because I think of the series mostly as a whole, but they were essential, in my opinion. The last season, on the other hand, not so much. I had the benefit of watching it daily when SciFi first acquired it - it was right at my exercise time. So I binged in a 90's sort of way. :)

[ganesh]

I think it's due to preconceived notions about the Wachowskis.

 

Then these so called critics aren't well versed in the abilities of JMS to develop an over arching story that hold up. I was initially interested because of him.

 

In their own way, they fulfill her sexually. Dani does not seem to have any genuine friends at the moment and she's just escaped an abusive relationship. The guys make her happy and they adore her. It's rather lovely.

 

I hope they buy her a digital camera and a safe. Take all the pics you want, but hide them! I was surprised that they didn't know she was taking pictures. 

 

 

I don't think B5 has aged well, unfortunately.

Maybe the look of it, but there's plenty of stories on B5 that are relevant to today imo. 

 

I was disappointed that there wasn't any more resolution to Lito's story, but I suppose there's probably too much there to jam into one last episode, plus the jailbreak with Riley. 

 

This really ended weird because it looked like they were just going to keep Will unconscious indefinitely. That's not much of a plan. I would hope that there's going to be more 'fighting back' next season. I don't think the show should get too overly much with the conspiracies and shadowy-ness. But, I have faith in JMS not to do that. 

 

It was a good point that Whispers probably doesn't have much of an upper hand as he's letting on. Obviously, Will et al., don't know that, so this would be interesting for me. 

 

I was not disappointed in this series at all. I'll be back for S2. 

[Clanstarling]

Then these so called critics aren't well versed in the abilities of JMS to develop an over arching story that hold up. I was initially interested because of him

 

Maybe the look of it, but there's plenty of stories on B5 that are relevant to today imo. 

I definitely agree that many of the stories are relevant today. It was primarily the look I was referring to - it's a hurdle, I think, for any newbie to the series. Even when I watched it in the 90's, it took me a couple of episodes to get accustomed to the look of the aliens, and then it never bothered me again because the stories were compelling. I've always been impressed by JMS's arching story, and the only reason the last season wasn't quite as good (imo) was that he wasn't sure he was getting a fifth season and wrapped most of it up in the fourth.

[darkestboy]

Now that was a team effort to rescue Riley. Loved seeing everyone's skill playing some role in getting her away from Whispers.

 

Traumatic flashbacks though and the scenes with her and Will certainly pulled no punches.

 

Final scene with all of them together was nice. My favourite moment of the series.

 

This show has to come back for a second season, 9/10

[ConnorMooneyhan]

I'm unclear why people think Whispers' ability to acquire knowledge is based on vision only. Jonas wasn't looking at an ambulance, yet he knew the escape plan was an ambulance and Whispers got that info from Jonas' mind. No vision involved. Jonas knew, so Whispers could know.

By analogy, if Will knows something Whispers can know it.

Guys you're all forgetting what Jonas very clearly laid out to Will in episode 4:

"You also have to learn the difference between "visiting" and "sharing." Visiting is what we're doing now. Sharing is something you can only do inside your cluster: accessing each other's knowledge, language, skill."

[JillPole]

I just binged this a couple of days ago, and I'm still reeling. This is the most beautiful show I've watched in years. It's so heartwarming, and I cheered every time someone helped someone else out. It took me awhile, but I finally figured out that the terrible dialogue was an intentional pastiche crossover exercise. Like, Kala would say ridiculous cliched Bollywood things to Wolfgang, and he would respond with cliched dialogue out of some heist or Schwarzenegger film. Once I got it, I just laughed every time, but simultaneously was warmed, because the characters truly meant the sentiments. I even rewatched the whole series and got that much more out of it, understanding about the dialogue. However, I still cannot figure out what genre Amanita is supposed to be from. She had the most ridiculous lines, but the Nomi plot appeared to be a typical psychological thriller (???), and Amanita was the supporting girlfriend? I wasn't sure what I was supposed to be seeing there. Whatever it was, Amanita was a delight.

 

I do hope there is a season 2, with as much budget as this season had. I've rarely experienced such a beautiful, wild ride. Though I kind of want Tom Tykwer to direct everything. I'd never heard of him before, but he has now just risen to Richard Deakins (Skyfall's cinematographer) in terms of my favorites. Every single shot of his was so beautifully composed. 

 

I loved all the characters and all the connections. I desperately want to see all the ones we haven't gotten yet, especially Kala/Lito, Capheus/Lito, Wolfgang/Sun, Wolfgang/Capheus (Wolf needs a little sunshine in his life!). I want Kala to get good drugs to Capheus and to Will, who I assume will need them. 

 

I think my favorite duo had to be Wolfgang/Lito. It was so unexpected and lovely. Like, I was expecting Sun to show up, but it was so much better that it was Wolf. Joaquin was only one guy and Lito is perfectly jacked. He didn't need help beating people up. All he needed was a little steeliness, which Wolfgang has in spades. I really liked that quiet message, which was so much better than a larger-scale ass-kicking would have been. Both of the Lito/Wolfgang sequences were my very favorite (Sun's "Is that all?" is the only part that might rival it). I noticed that, other than Kala, Wolfgang only responded to people who had helped him out first. Lito came to him first and saved him, and that's why he saved Lito. Same with Will after the Kevlar thing. That seems true to character, with him being so contained and shut off, except for Felix and Kala. There's so much potential with him for next season. Does he shut himself off from them? There was the line about how he chose Felix over the arbitrary bonds of blood family. This sensate thing is just as arbitrary, really, and his reaction to Will in the Holocaust memorial backed that up a bit. Does he choose to dissociate from them in favor of Felix? Or does he go another murder spree to take care of Whispers and BPO because they are a threat to Kala? Either one would feel right for the character! (I think Wolfgang slowly became my favorite over the season. And Flashback Baby Felix made me care more about adult Felix and their relationship than I did with the adult actor.)

 

I definitely caught onto the bit where Jonas is standing in the hospital hallway looking at Will. What was that? He had to have been inhabiting someone, right? And who was having the heart attack that brought the ambulance? I never saw where that went. And why did some people see Daryl Hannah rise from being dead and interact with them? Is she not dead? What was the business about her secretly not loving Jonas? Do we know for certain that all groups have exactly eight people? I just feel like Jonas is not the most reliable narrator. There's so much more to be explored there, even though what I really do care about are the relationships between the core eight. 

 

I wish I knew how to recommend this to people. I do think it starts off slowly, and the Nomi storyline does start off rather preachy before she lands in the hospital and The Plot kicks in. And it's hard to explain to people that the dialogue is terrible on purpose, that it's meant to be hilariously cliched. These are a lot of things to tell people to get through for a payoff. But that payoff is so lovely. I want every show to be this show. 

[jhlipton]

I wish I knew how to recommend this to people

 

I tell people that it the most character-driven show I've seen.  I tell them that even the minor characters (like for the bartender that Lito flirted with, stormed at and apologized to) we get a look inside their feelings.  Then I warn them about the graphic sex and violence and tellt hem that I hope they watch anyway.

[Captanne]

My circle of friends are all in their 50s either physically or spiritually so none of us cares about the sex, straight, upside down, or sideways.  Nor are we too squeamish about this sort of violence.

 

I characterize the series as "brilliantly going outside the box and using its genre to the fullest extent."  It's the perfect show for a network like Netflix.  It fills a niche viewing audience who are open to experimentation if done well and with heart.

 

(I think this is the sort of place "Hannibal" belongs.  When it was murder-du-jour it was fine on NBC but when it devolved into "Fuller Shows He Went to Film School" rather than plot-driving, it lost its audience.  Hence it is cancelled and there are very a small set who are disappointed.)

 

I never watched B5 and I can't deal with fly-by-wire so nothing made me laugh more than the inside joke about Lito's great, last, battle as he was soaring through the patio.  LOL  

[viajero]

I’ve finally made it through to the end of the season and I have to admit that I’ve grown to really love this show.  It seems to have the perfect mix of character development and very well executed action scenes.  It helps that pretty much all of the characters are interesting.  Even those who seem kind of clichéd on the surface (Wolfgang, Nala, Will) have a surprising depth to them.  I really hope we get a second season.

 

I loved Daniela, she seemed selfless.

 

 

So do I.  She’s one of my favorite characters on the show.  But then I’ve liked Erendira Ibarra ever since she appeared a few years ago in the HBO Latin America original series Capadocia (a kind of grittier holds-no-punches version of OITNB, whose first season may be among the best HBO has ever produced, anywhere).  Unusual for a Mexican actress, Ibarra has a history of playing lesbian and bisexual roles.  So it’s kind of fun to see her playing a straight woman who is into gay guys.  Plus Dani is so over the top.  I’m used to seeing Ibarra play either very earnest innocent characters or down-to-earth practical characters.  Of course it doesn’t hurt that she’s gorgeous.

[jhlipton]

 Of course it doesn’t hurt that she’s gorgeous.

 

All of the women (I can't speak for the men) are gorgeous!

[tufar]

I also think there is more going on with Wolfgang and his father. The only thing we were shown was that the man was physically abusive. But after that, Wolf choked him to death and set his body on fire. I just don't see him holding on to things for this long with this amount of rage unless we haven't gotten the whole picture.

 

It is also possible that the whole thing has some kind of tie-in to the little girl whose picture is at the copshop in Chicago? That Wolfgang's father had something to do with that? Which is what makes him the monster he is? Doesn't it make sense? I see this show making those kinda tie-ins, the ones verging on cliches (nevermind the cultural cliches that they also play around with. I like it, because I like what they do with it, in some sense, it is totally pulp-like but very enjoyable.

 

Even though some of the acting is a tad ah, overwrought, it suits this approach... and the visual implementations are stunning. Very well done

Edited August 17, 2015 by tufar

[tufar]

I dunno if you guys know this yet, but the show was renewed for a second season. yay.

[myril]

It is also possible that the whole thing has some kind of tie-in to the little girl whose picture is at the copshop in Chicago? That Wolfgang's father had something to do with that? Which is what makes him the monster he is? Doesn't it make sense? I see this show making those kinda tie-ins, the ones verging on cliches (nevermind the cultural cliches that they also play around with. I like it, because I like what they do with it, in some sense, it is totally pulp-like but very enjoyable.

 

Which little girl do you mean, the one Will had a connection with, a case his father had worked on, name Sarah Patrell? What we get to see is that Whispers likely got his hands on her. Don't think that Wolfgang's father had anything to do with that, the family seemed to be more into the thieving business than human trafficking. Not that one excludes the other, I just hadn't the impression they were into it.

 

And I wouldn't underestimate what constant humiliation and brutalization can do to a child's psyche, it doesn't always have to be sexual abuse. Wolfgang's father had a very toxic image of masculinity, of what makes a man a man (probably could fraternize with Nomi's father in this, just different social class). For a boy with some sensitivity, and I think that is something all sensates have, a heightened sensitivity, that can be destructive. Remember the scene with Wolfgang as boy on stage, meant to give a performance as soloist singer with orchestra, and his father laughing at him? Maybe it was at some point Wolfgang's dream to become a singer, something that didn't fit into the criminal and masculine pride his father cherished. I agree, there is more to Wolfgang's story. Some are speculating that something happened to his mother, and he blamed his father for it. Threatening or hurting people Wolfgang loves seems to be a much stronger motivator for Wolfgang's actions than whatever happened and happens with him. That's what Wolfgang expressed clearly to Kala.

Edited August 17, 2015 by myril

[JillPole]

Even though he's the character I became most invested in and protective of, the singing aspect of Wolfgang's storyline gave me inappropriate giggles. The time out to watch singing competitions, the flashback trauma, falling in love during karaoke... I got the feeling that he "just... wants... to sing!!" like in Monty Python and the Holy Grail, but was unfortunately born into some crazy Russian mafia family that didn't tolerate it. Poor Wolfgang, but also lol. I wonder if there will ever be something between Wolfgang and Riley's dad, who achieved that dream. And I definitely think the dad killed the mom or something terrible. I agree it doesn't have to be sexual abuse, but there has to be more behind the "You know why! You knew and you didn't do anything".

 

Definitely agree with everything you said, though. Especially how he's so much more motivated by saving the people he cares about than by saving himself. He's got as much of a savior complex baby Will's shrink diagnosed, but because he's so dark, no one's ever called him out on it. I love how the dad's toxic idea of what matters in life (drinking, shitting, eating, fucking, fighting for more) contrasts with the kinder and gentler but still angry and violent ethos Sun listed to Kala at the end of episode 11 (rage, fear, desire, love; putting anger into fists and fighting for it). Without having ever interacted with her, Wolfgang embodies Sun's list, not his father's. 

 

Speaking of baby Will and the therapist, that whole scene made me think of Harry Potter, who was also accused of having a 'saving people thing' that the bad guy counted on to get at him, and also how the bad guy almost got him as a little kid, and their mental link, etc etc.

[Helena Dax]

Wow, this  show is amazing. I started watching it yesterday and I think I just stopped to sleep.   Loved it. It's not perfect and sometimes, some scenes were a bit boring, especially Riley's, but the idea is so fascinating and the characters are so likeable... I love the way it shows things that you usually don't see on TV, like the orgy, all those graphic births... It's refreshing. 

 

I knew who Miguel Ángel Silvestre was -his nickname in Spain is "El Duque", because of some Spanish TV show-, but it's  the first time I see him working and  he's a great surprise. I loved Lito and his relationship with Hernando -sweet, smart, gorgeous Hernando- made my heart melt. I've never  understood someone so much as I understand (and envy) Daniella. Lucky girl... I also loved that the movie he was shooting looked completely awful, but everybody thought his films were amazing and deep. 

 

Wolfgang, omg, so hot! I don't think he's a monster, just a bit messed up. He  hasn't  killed more people than Capheus and surely he hasn't killed any innocent person.  Plus, he likes to be naked. He can totally  stay.

 

I can't find the words to explain how amazing Sun is. And I want her to  break from that prison and destroy her useless, pathetic, murderer brother. I agree that her "Is that all?" is epic. I enjoyed all her scenes, even when  she wasn't kicking some ass right and left. One of my favourite moments was when she met her new cellmates and found out that they were completely fine with  her "crime". 

 

Everything about Capheus was perfect. His van, his love for his mum and Van Damme, his smile, his optimism, the way he enjoyed everything about this new thing that was happening to  him...

 

The actor who plays Will looks a lot like Corey Monteith,  it was a bit distracting. But I loved him anyway. He was a good guy and his reaction when  he met Lito and remembered the orgy was hilarious. I guess he'll have to be extra careful next season. 

 

I like Kala.  I knew her scientific knowledge would be useful eventually. Her fiancée is perfect -the significant others in this show are the most supportive people ever- but I ship her with Wolfgang, they have a cute chemistry together. 

 

I was a bit meh about Nomi, especially in  the first episodes. But then I started to like her too. She knows her computers, no doubt. And her scene with Lito, at the museum, was a thing of beauty. 

 

Riley is my less favourite character, I guess, even if I like her too. She was too passive this season. I think she'll have a different role next season, though, more active. And I agree that she could be the next "mother".

 

I don't know  how  it works, though. If it's a mutation, why didn't they start to visit each other since they were born? What does it mean that Angelica is their mother? They were born from different women, we saw that. 

 

Anyway, I'm in love with this show and I can't wait for next season!

[myril]

I was a bit meh about Nomi, especially in  the first episodes. But then I started to like her too. She knows her computers, no doubt. And her scene with Lito, at the museum, was a thing of beauty.

 

Taking discussion to character thread. http://forums.previously.tv/topic/28472-nomi-marks-hactivist-extraordinaire/?p=1424859

 

 

 

Riley is my less favourite character, I guess, even if I like her too. She was too passive this season. I think she'll have a different role next season, though, more active. And I agree that she could be the next "mother".

 

 

Taking discussion to character thread. http://forums.previously.tv/topic/30605-riley-blue-aligning-dj/?p=1424855

Edited August 18, 2015 by myril

[ahisma]

I don't know how it works, though. If it's a mutation, why didn't they start to visit each other since they were born? What does it mean that Angelica is their mother? They were born from different women, we saw that.

I guess the way I would describe their birth is: They were all physically born the way everyone is born, though they happened to have this genetic mutation. The mutation gives them the potential to be sensates. These eight were all physically born (to their respective mothers) at the same time, making them a potential cluster. Then Angelica reached out psychically to "give birth" to them as active sensates—she birthed their cluster from potential to actual.

[Holmbo]

Who else laughed at the car distraction? It was so funny the way all the guards were captivated :D

[myril]

Who else laughed at the car distraction? It was so funny the way all the guards were captivated :D

 

It really was a nice car. ;-)