S07.E09: Birthday In The Berks

[intensebeige]

 

 

think what set Heather off that day was during the Red Roof Inn meal when Carole related her experience with Bethenny @ CB2 and how Bethenny broke down to Carole & had an organic bonding moment.

Carole is her BFF & Carole had the moment that Heather wants with Bethenny.

 

I like this point, because what I see is that theoretically there may be something about Heather's personality that triggers something in Bethenny which reminds her of her mother or how her mother treated her, and she instantly has to shut that down for her own sanity because she obviously hasn't fully dealt with her mother issues.  Neither Heather nor Bethenny is necessarily at fault, but Heather comes off looking worse, because she can't take a freakin' clue and act cool (not uncool).  

 

So it's obvious that Bethenny would therefore feel more relaxed and able to let her guard down (however unwittingly) when around Carole who is just the chillest of the chill.  No judgement and even no hugs!  Just a space to be and then quietly help her pull herself together with floor display $2 napkins.  

 

(I love Carole.)

[breezy424]

It's possible--and I have no way of actually knowing this, obviously--that their co-op boards refused permission for filming on the premises.  I don't know how much disruption there is with trucks parked outside, cabling in the hallways, noise generated in the apartment that affects adjoining apartments, use of electricity or generators.  It might be an annoyance to the degree that it spills out into public spaces, and I can see a board just saying "Not gonna happen here."  (I was on our co-op board for several years, and sometimes all it takes is one relentlessly pissy person to shut something down.)

 

 

 

Edited because "is" doesn't mean "it."

I think you are correct on them not being able to film at their places in the city.  We have seen Heather's home in the Berkshires and we saw the home she rented in the Hamptons.  We've also seen Lu's home in the Hamptons as well.

[slitz]

Nevertheless women (and I am one) should not believe they are the sole custodians of their children after a divorce.

 

Seems to me they do need to adapt to the court ordered decisions to make it easier for the child/ren and do have opportunities to revisit the order in time.

 

The focus needs to be on the kid/s and their growing up in non-drama homes. 

 

I am eternally grateful to my parents that this was the approach they took when they got divorced.  It wasn't always easy, and there were years of anger and hurt that everyone went through, but at the heart of it, all my parents wanted for my brother and I was for us to have healthy and loving relationships with both of our parents.  There was never any harsh words spoken about the other in front of us kids and we were never forced to make a choice between our mother and father.  I'll never forget the story my mom told me about my older brother's high school graduation.  Our father, step-mother and two half-brothers surprised him by showing up for his graduation (they were stationed in England at the time so this was a BIG deal).  The graduation party was at our grandparents (mother's parents) house.  My aunt, who was going through a very contentious divorce at the time, asked my mom how she could stand having them there.  My mom's reply was so beautifully simple..."It's not about me.  It's about Jason.  This is his day."

 

I truly hope and pray that one day Bethenny and Jason can have that understanding too.

[Wendy]

Very good point! Didn't Aviva rent that house last season because her board said NO to any filming at her apartment/building? Hmmm, maybe that is why Carole decided to get on her board, so she could keep filming at her apartment. LOL

 

Yet Carole and Aviva and even Luann in previous seasons have shown us the inside of their houses even if they used a different building (alleging security issues)

Heather is not the only one who lives in a building, they all do, Jill , Bethenny, Ramona, Cindy, , Kristen, Aviva, etc all lived in a building which probably had many, many restrictions, yet they have managed to one way or another shown us their apartments, all but Heather.

[motorcitymom65]

Yet Carole and Aviva and even Luann in previous seasons have shown us the inside of their houses even if they used a different building (alleging security issues)

Heather is not the only one who lives in a building, they all do, Jill , Bethenny, Ramona, Cindy, , Kristen, Aviva, etc all lived in a building which probably had many, many restrictions, yet they have managed to one way or another shown us their apartments, all but Heather.

I just think it depends on the building. Aviva made a big deal in the press about needing to move after her first season because the building would no longer allow her to film there at all. Something about a large fine if she violated the rule. Aviva didn't have a job or office to film at, she wasn't getting along well with everyone, and she didn't want to go on any of the trips, so I am sure it would have been necessary for her to do some of her filming at home. Brandi has said on the BH show that one of the reasons it is so hard for her to find a rental is that so many places won't let her film.

I would love to see Heather's house, but don't feel anything is being hidden from me because I cannot. Anything real that is happening in her world that she is trying to hide.

ETA: I have zero problem with these gals wanting to keep some things private. I like it better when they give their kids privacy, and actually don't mind not seeing their friends. I can understand someone not wanting to subject their friends to this. I am constantly amazed and disgusted that we have always seen the outside of Ramona's apartment building. She had a young daughter living there for years so that was just strange shit to me. Keeping people off camera or not wanting the world to see your bedroom is extremely different from pretending that you are living an entirely different life than you are. Pretending that you don't have a boyfriend! What's next, pretending like you don't have a kid. These are essential parts of a person's life and should at the very least be acknowledged.

Edited June 5, 2015 by motorcitymom65

[SFoster21]

I guess I can see the Betheather situation from both perspectives. I didn't think Bethenny was being particularly dramatic about her fish/shellfish declaration. I took it as one of two ways - either she just blurted it out reflexively after a few cocktails or that she was just saying it, since she was sitting right next to Dorinda, so that Dorinda would not be offended if B didn't touch her plate. Maybe, I'm wrong, but I thought it completely innocent. I also think Heather was, at least in her own mind, trying to be hostess given the whole Berkshires thing and that given it was Dorinda's birthday, she wanted to step in and help so that Dorinda could enjoy her night.

That said, Heather really cannot read B or needs to get over it. After one time of B saying she was fine and could manage with the food, drop it already. I think Dorinda put it very well when she contrasted Heather the caretaker versus B needing to make her own solutions. I think Heather came into this situation thinking she and B would be fast friends because of the similarities in running a business, being straight shooters and she's hit nothing but a brick wall with B. I think if Heather had been the one in that corner getting tipsy and laughing with B, rather than Sonja, she'd have had no issue whatsoever. In any case, the whole situation escalated when it didn't need to. Heather needs to learn when to butt out and B needs to learn that every fight doesn't need to be fought with a flamethrower.

John mentioned their great sushi chef and B said, "I only eat shellfish." Her remark was appropriate at the time. She said, "I'll handle it."

[film noire]

Who are Heather's friends? (snipped only for space)

 

Such a great deconstruction. I'm wondering now if Heather's TH -- about being a co-host -- was a ham-handed attempt to mitigate her taking over Dorinda's party & gifts & position within her own home. 

Edited June 5, 2015 by film noire

[Mozelle]

Heather was on Bethenny's talk show and they got along just fine so I think Heather felt they would be fine when Bethenny rejoined the show...

 

I found the clip on YouTube and watched. At one point they talked about Aviva, and Bethenny said something about how she had sympathy for Aviva because of the trauma she experienced in childhood. It makes me wonder if maybe that's why Bethenny came into filming already not feeling Heather.

 

Bethenny very much lives in the trauma she went through as a child whereas Heather (and what Heather said in the episode this week as well as when she was on Bethenny's show) is of the mind that fucked up things have happened to the lot of us. But wearing that trauma or using it to be horrible to another person is no excuse.

It seems that Bethenny is of the mind that once she knows that someone has experienced a crappy childhood then they get a forever pass well into adulthood.

My point is that it is childish to blame editing when each and every one of these women come with an agenda to the board room...

 

I agree that they came with an agenda. They have products that they want to sell, etc. However, if Bethenny is hoping to launch yet another spin off, the stakes may just be higher for her than for the other women. She was able to get those previous spin offs because of the single in the city/trying to find love storylines in her first couple of seasons. No one can knock the selling power behind that movie/TV/novel genre. A lot of women empathize with it.

 

If they can't empathize with Bethenny this go-round, though, which was abundantly clear on social media in the first few episodes of this season, then the likelihood of a spin off (if that is what's happening for her) becomes smaller.

[Bossa Nova]

In one talking head, Dorinda wisely said (I paraphrase) that Bethenney would figure things out on her own; and Heather was "teachy and preachy". 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Bossa Nova

[hottesthw]

I think you are correct on them not being able to film at their places in the city. We have seen Heather's home in the Berkshires and we saw the home she rented in the Hamptons. We've also seen Lu's home in the Hamptons as well.

We saw Lu's home in the city as well when she was married. I don't think she has it anymore now that she is divorced. The only one hiding things and lying about their current situation is Bethenny. Which I would guess gets old after a while when you have to deal with her in real time.

[WireWrap]

Exactly, they all show us what they want us to see , it is not just Bethenny.

 

Bethenny doesn't show us her BF because she said he doesn't want to be on the show. Heather never shows her her house and she probably has valid reasons for that, Heather and Carol refer to their friends and we have seen glimpses of them just as much as Bethenny mentions her friends and we have seen them more on her spin off than in RHNY, yet some have made a fact that she has no friends.

 

My point is that it is childish to blame editing when each and every one of these women come with an agenda to the board room, Heather as well as Bethenny doesn't need this show, she already has a succesful business and a child to take care off, so why she does it? isn't that the logic applied to Bethenny? IMO they both do it for promotional reasons, I had never heard of Yummu products until Heather was on RHNY, so she has pretty good reasons to do it. Bethenny has a commitment of 7 years with Beam so she probably is doing it to keep promoting the cocktails and her own products because that is the way she negotiated her contract. Besides Bethenny has to pay off Jason so someohow she has to keep making money because she has to pay him for the next 14 years to come. More promotion, more sales, more money. Don't each of these Bravo HW do it for their own personal reasons?

 

The difference between Heather and Bethenny IMO is the place where they are coming from, Bethenny is showing us her struggles, without being able to say too much she is giving us a glimpse into the chaos of her life right now even when it is not pretty, while Heather is mainly focus in conflicts with the other ladies as her one and only story line.

 

Heather is IMO playing a role, she wants to be mother earth, the wise one, the strong one, yet she is coming across and a know-it-all, busi buddy who meddles into every situation whether it involves her or not and that is going to be her own downfall, not editing, Heather's own fault. She of course likes to blame Bethenny but the reality is that the one who is going overboard and acting like a ass is Heather, editing can't put words in your mouth, "she doesn't want my help so she will eat nothing", "do I have to separate you two?"," I can tell you whatever fuck I want to tell you" , "come with me" - while grabbing her hand and trying to pull her away - among her verbal diarreas are not coming from overlap and fixed voices , they are coming from Heather

IMO, just mine, you mixed up Heather and Bethenny. I see Heather as more real/honest and showing us who she is, flaws and all, able to move on and enjoy life. On the other hand, IMO, Bethenny is acting a role, that of a victim.

Yet Carole and Aviva and even Luann in previous seasons have shown us the inside of their houses even if they used a different building (alleging security issues)

Heather is not the only one who lives in a building, they all do, Jill , Bethenny, Ramona, Cindy, , Kristen, Aviva, etc all lived in a building which probably had many, many restrictions, yet they have managed to one way or another shown us their apartments, all but Heather.

Heather has show us her vacation home and her Hampton's rental. LuAnn has never shown her new apartment, the 1 she moved into after the divorce. They can not force the co-op board to allow filming and should not be expected to IMO. Aviva had nothing else to show her second season, no home,  no vacation home, no office and she needed something so she rented. Heather and LuAnn do have other homes to highlight/show.

[ParkCirclegirl]

IMO, just mine, you mixed up Heather and Bethenny. I see Heather as more real/honest and showing us who she is, flaws and all, able to move on and enjoy life. On the other hand, IMO, Bethenny is acting a role, that of a victim.

Heather has show us her vacation home and her Hampton's rental. LuAnn has never shown her new apartment, the 1 she moved into after the divorce. They can not force the co-op board to allow filming and should not be expected to IMO. Aviva had nothing else to show her second season, no home,  no vacation home, no office and she needed something so she rented. Heather and LuAnn do have other homes to highlight/show.

We even saw Carole's California house.

[Trooper York]

Wow. Bethenny as the avenger of Aviva after the house fell on her! Now that's a great storyline. Just recycled.

 

Will Heather be wearing some ruby red slippers? 

Edited June 5, 2015 by Trooper York

[WireWrap]

I found the clip on YouTube and watched. At one point they talked about Aviva, and Bethenny said something about how she had sympathy for Aviva because of the trauma she experienced in childhood. It makes me wonder if maybe that's why Bethenny came into filming already not feeling Heather.

 

Bethenny very much lives in the trauma she went through as a child whereas Heather (and what Heather said in the episode this week as well as when she was on Bethenny's show) is of the mind that fucked up things have happened to the lot of us. But wearing that trauma or using it to be horrible to another person is no excuse.

It seems that Bethenny is of the mind that once she knows that someone has experienced a crappy childhood then they get a forever pass well into adulthood.

 

 

 

I agree that they came with an agenda. They have products that they want to sell, etc. However, if Bethenny is hoping to launch yet another spin off, the stakes may just be higher for her than for the other women. She was able to get those previous spin offs because of the single in the city/trying to find love storylines in her first couple of seasons. No one can knock the selling power behind that movie/TV/novel genre. A lot of women empathize with it.

 

If they can't empathize with Bethenny this go-round, though, which was abundantly clear on social media in the first few episodes of this season, then the likelihood of a spin off (if that is what's happening for her) becomes smaller.

If Bethenny was reacting to Heather because of Aviva, then she would have targeted Carole first and foremost IMO.  Also, Ramona actually used the word "BLAME" to Bethenny about Aviva being on the show! LOL JMO

[Trooper York]

"And you're little Carole too!"
 

[Mondrianyone]

Yet Carole and Aviva and even Luann in previous seasons have shown us the inside of their houses even if they used a different building (alleging security issues)

Heather is not the only one who lives in a building, they all do, Jill , Bethenny, Ramona, Cindy, , Kristen, Aviva, etc all lived in a building which probably had many, many restrictions, yet they have managed to one way or another shown us their apartments, all but Heather.

As I said, it only takes one person objecting strenuously to shut down something in a co-op situation where others on the board might be willing to let it happen.  So while those other women's buildings let them film, it's highly possible that Heather's and LuAnn's boards said no.  We have seen the homes they own outright, so they clearly don't have a problem letting us into their private spaces.  There's not much they can do if the board won't permit filming.  A really nasty board can make your life a living hell if you go against them, and that's no exaggeration.

[WireWrap]

We even saw Carole's California house.

Yes, a house that is not governed by a co-op board or a community board that can and does restrict who, what, where and when of the building/neighborhood itself. LOL

[Crikey]

 Depending on the situation, I sometimes see horns and sometimes see halos on most of the women on the RH shows.

 

Carlton, on RHOBH came on the show and I kinda liked her until she was so bloody rude to Kyle but I defended her on the Bravo boards when folks threw hate her way over her being Wiccan.

 

I took Heather saying she was co-hosting to mean that, because they were in the Berkshires and she knew the area well, she could co-host the area, not the actual gathering.

Of course then she sets  about tending/domineering  the gathering but I believe her initial comment ( I think it was in the car) was about the area.

Edited June 5, 2015 by Crikey

[Trooper York]

Did I see Carole sitting in a basket on the front of a bicycle while Heather was peddling furiously away from Bethenny or did I imagine it?

 

Man I got to stop drinking that real tequila and switch to that phony Skinnygirl crap.

[Crikey]

As I said, it only takes one person objecting strenuously to shut down something in a co-op situation where others on the board might be willing to let it happen.  So while those other women's buildings let them film, it's highly possible that Heather's and LuAnn's boards said no.  We have seen the homes they own outright, so they clearly don't have a problem letting us into their private spaces.  There's not much they can do if the board won't permit filming.  A really nasty board can make your life a living hell if you go against them, and that's no exaggeration.

My stepfather was president of his homeowner's association.  A proud condo commando.  He walked around with the vice president , took photos, wrote up owners for violations, handed out fines, etc.  He had his screens slashed and weedkiller poured over his lawn.  These folks are in a war, I tell ya, a war!

It is the sole reason I do not want to live in a condo or an area with a homeowner association.

[jaync]

I don't know if you are asking in all earnestness or being facetious, but mami/mama is Spanish slang meaning baby or sexy, mainly used by the Puerto Ricans of NY.

"Mainly used" isn't appropriated, though. Anyway, I'mma choose to believe the fine NYers of Puerto Rican descent are rational folk who wouldn't lose their shit and lash out at another for using a term of which they have no lock on, no matter whose lips it may come from, nor how it may sound to the ear.

 

I'm always aware of possible editing and production shenanigans, but now after this reon-ing of Beth after the viewer comment on WWHL, and also Dorinda saying she's been called back to film new THs, I'm practically watching *just* to see where they may have edited things out of context.

Is Dorinda the only one that was called back to film new THs? Hopefully, it was done to benefit all the ladies/show as a whole, and not used as a way to sprinkle sugar on one particular HW/scenario.

 

Heather was not one bit happy that Bethenny came, her main gripe against her is that she doesn't show up to events, so Bethenny coming ruined that tag line.

I don't recall that being Heather's main gripe with Beth at all. *shrug*

 

[Crikey]

Did I see Carole sitting in a basket on the front of a bicycle while Heather was peddling furiously away from Bethenny or did I imagine it?

 

Man I got to stop drinking that real tequila and switch to that phony Skinnygirl crap.

My sister gave me a great wedding gift of a basket full of goodies for our honeymoon.  It contained a bottle of SkinnyGirl Sangria.

Now, I am not sure if my sister likes me or not.  ;)  We just returned from our honeymoon and still have the bottle.  

Edited June 5, 2015 by Crikey

[Pattycake2]

Maybe, after Bethanny was filmed saying she wasn't going to the Berkshires, Bravo told her to get her butt up there.  Bravo loves nothing more than a Housewife Dinner from Hell. 

Didn't we see Heather's apartment once?  I have a vague memory of the cameras following her into her apartment and maybe Jax getting a bath or something like that?  Or was I drinking too much Fabellini?  Which, btw, isn't as bad as one would think. 

[walnutqueen]

Who's Myra? :p

And 5 hours doesn't constitute GOOD sleep, right? Certainly my 3 year old had other plans for me today. A nap? Not one of them. :(

But yum. I'll totally take you up on that hero!

 

In my world, 5 hours would be GREAT sleep.  I am the reluctant queen of the catnaps, though.   It all adds up, right?  ;-)

[motorcitymom65]

 

I don't recall that being Heather's main gripe with Beth at all. *shrug*

Has she even mentioned it on the show at all? I've heard Kristen, Carole and Lu refer to Beth missing stuff, but how in the world is it Heather's main gripe?

[Leroux]

Sonja's blog is up

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-new-york-city/season-7/blogs/sonja-morgan/sonja-these-girls-are-emotional

 

I know Sonja is perceived as delusional and she mainly is, this blog however has very good points and I can see how Sonja is know seeing Heather right through

 

The issues about what Bethenny was going to eat is too ridiculous for words. Like Ramona said, Bethenny is a grown woman and can make her own dining choices. She doesn’t need Heather to mother her all the time. I think Heather would get along with all of the women much better if she stopped trying to control everyone. Controlling everyone around you doesn’t mean you are actually in control--it means you want to be a dictator. I can see why Bethenny doesn’t feel comfortable sharing things with Heather. Everything you share in intimacy with Heather she uses as ammunition against you. It feels like a trap to be friends with Heather!

 

That is exactly the way I see Heather, I do not see a poor lady just trying to be nice and being rejected, I see a person with a plan and goal in mind who gets pissy when she doesn't get her way and lets the mask slip off and shows her true colors.

[Sincerely Yours]

No offense, but if someone treated my invitation and hospitality in that way, I'd feel belittled and they'd never be invited back -- you've been lucky in your hostesses, Sincerely!:) 

I don't think being a guest in someones home means that I must all of a sudden become deaf, dumb and blind and can't address another adult in the room whom I feel is being disruptive or disrespectful. I'm not promoting kicking people out of someone else's home or starting some sort of campaign to tar and feather anyone at the dinner table just that as an adult I would expect to have full use of my own judgment no matter whose home I'm in and I see nothing wrong with addressing something that is making me uncomfortable.  I doubt a good hostess would want her guests to feel as if they don't have ANY control over what is happening in the environment they are currently in.

Edited June 8, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[ryebread]

[snip]...making snarky remarks like "well, she doesn't want my help so she will eat nothing" 

 

Heather went into defcon helicopter mommy and declared that she will have to "separate you two"

 

"she doesn't want my help so she will eat nothing", "do I have to separate you two?"," I can tell you whatever fuck I want to tell you" , "come with me" - while grabbing her hand and trying to pull her away - among her verbal diarreas are not coming from overlap and fixed voices , they are coming from Heather

 

She sounds just like a mean teacher.  The one that parents pray their kids don't get because she's got the reputation in the hood for being 'that' teacher.  But even after all the things The Preacher and Teacher says, she also says things like this:

 

"No one likes you.  No one wants you here."  And just like that she goes from being mean teacher to mean kindergartner. 

[Amused]

Love, love, Luanne this season.  She is so matter of fact to Ramona, calling her out.  Then the next minute they're like 2 old shoes like nothing happened.  

[FozzyBear]

I think the thing with Bethanny and Heather is they are both pretty self involved people who expect the room to revolve around their moods. Since both can be charming they probably more or less get away with it. Unfortunately, they are in very different moods right now. Neither is doing a very good job of just shaking off the other and letting things be. They both demand people are on their page at all times. Right now it's causing tension.

Also Heather was not trying to joke or be helpful. Man up, girl.

What the fuck was Luanne wearing? Why aren't we talking about that!?!?!

[LotusFlower]

I get what several of you are saying about her signing on, but we don't know what is in her contract as far as what's expected of her.  For all we know, she has the freedom to choose which events she attends.   If she's basically doing the equivalent of calling in sick, that's another matter altogether, but that's between her and TPTB - not "the girls".  Maybe they're jealous and think that she has her own separate set of rules, and she very well may.  I don't see it causing too much suffering, though - it means more camera time for them and that seems to be more of a motivator than anything else for most of the members of every cast.

I think she does have her own set of rules, and it makes the others resentful, which is just human nature. I also don't think Bethenny skipping events means more camera time for them, since they all know Bethenny's return is a big storyline this season, and she's Andy's favorite, etc., etc., so in reality, it usually pans out as no Bethenny = scenes left on the cutting room floor.

[Trooper York]

Luann was channeling forties glam. She looked fantastic.

 

 

Hubba Hubba Mama!

[Alonzo Mosely FBI]

To me, Heather tried way too hard the whole ep to play Berkshires Expert, Tour Guide, and hostess. No Heather. You were the hostess when the girls encamped in your dark green hotbox cabin from the first Parent Trap movie. You're not the boss in Madame Dorinda Tussaud's color wheel tudor. Shut up already about Bethenny's food- you're NOT the hostess just cuz you think you own the Berkshires, and even at your beloved Red Lion, Bethenny's dietary issues are not your row to hoe!

Edited June 6, 2015 by Alonzo Mosely FBI

[sekay87]

The reason why Dorinda laid into Kristen about what happened with John and hasn't spoken up to Sonja is because Kristen was being flirtatious with John, just as Sonja was, and was participating in the now-called "sandwich" (LOL) then tried to turn around and say that it was all John's fault and she didn't do anything. Dorinda knows how John is and doesn't place the blame on the girls, but she did need to call Kristen out for flirting back with John harmlessly then trying to clutch pearls and say that the whole thing was inappropriate. She didn't call out Sonja because unlike Kristen, Sonja isn't acting like John is being inappropriate or creepy and owns her part in the harmless flirtation. I can see why Dorinda would then not say anything to her and would say something to Kristen if that's the case. She knows to talk to John about the issue and not blame the ladies, but in this case she had to call Kristen out for being a hypocrite.

[motorcitymom65]

To me, Heather tried way too hard the whole ep to play Berkshires Expert, Tour Guide, and hostess. No Heather. You were the hostess when the girls encamped in your dark green hotbox cabin from the first Parent Trap movie. You're not the boss in Madame Dorinda Tusseau's color wheel tudor. Shut up already about Bethenny's food- you're NOT the hostess just cuz you think you own the Berkshires, and even at your beloved Red Lion, Bethenny's dietary issues are not your row to hoe!

Part of the deal in trying to make her look bossy. She no doubt is - she freely admits it - but they basically never showed her in this episode when she wasn't seeming to take control. We've seen her in many other situations - including at her own Anniversary Party and home in the Berkshires - where she is anything except bossy. She is collaborative, laid back and easy going many of the other times we have seen her. They aren't going to show us any of that moving forward, being certain I guess that a vast majority just forget why they liked someone in the first place. Bravo has become an expert in learning how easy it can be to change an opinion about a HW. You can take someone who is well liked because of their their actual words and responses, but then also make them hated later by showing a different side of them. Which one wins? The side we like or the one we don't? Bravo bets on the last one and most of the time they are right.

[WireWrap]

The reason why Dorinda laid into Kristen about what happened with John and hasn't spoken up to Sonja is because Kristen was being flirtatious with John, just as Sonja was, and was participating in the now-called "sandwich" (LOL) then tried to turn around and say that it was all John's fault and she didn't do anything. Dorinda knows how John is and doesn't place the blame on the girls, but she did need to call Kristen out for flirting back with John harmlessly then trying to clutch pearls and say that the whole thing was inappropriate. She didn't call out Sonja because unlike Kristen, Sonja isn't acting like John is being inappropriate or creepy and owns her part in the harmless flirtation. I can see why Dorinda would then not say anything to her and would say something to Kristen if that's the case. She knows to talk to John about the issue and not blame the ladies, but in this case she had to call Kristen out for being a hypocrite.

Kristen was fine doing the "butt rub" part of the "sandwich dance" with John, she got uncomfortable when he turned and tried to rub his groin into her while grabbing her and pulling her tighter against him. That would make me uncomfortable as well. If Dorinda is fine with her BF grinding his junk into other women, fine, but some women are not fine with him grinding his junk into them. Also, Kristen did not make a big deal about it, she was answering Ramona's inquiry about how she, Kristen, felt when Dorinda walked into the room. Notice, Ramona did not tell Dorinda that she, once again, brought up John's behavior to the another HW to stir up problems.

[FozzyBear]

As to the good edit/bad edit debate: might just be me, but I think the edit gets overblown in importance. My opinion of Heather is what it has always been. I like her and think she has good intentions, but is extremely full of herself and is pretty obtuse about reading people. She should learn when to back the fuck off and let shit go. But I've thought that since S1 when she had her talking head about how Luanne "didn't get it" after being scolded AGAIN over the dress thing. My response was "what? She apologized for making anyone uncomfortable and explained her side of things to you and Carole, neither of whom were there. What the fuck doesn't she get, Heather? That you need your say-so in something that has nothing to do with you? That nobody's done talking until you're done talking?". I thought Heather was rude to Kristen about the Montana trip and pulled the same "I'm being a bitch to help you understand how wrong you are" move. It's always been there in spades, IMO, it's just a main story this time.

I'm trying to think of a time when editing did significantly change how I felt about a HW. Maybe Alexis on OC? She went from irritating to pretty likable to me, but I never hated her to begin with...

[jaync]

I've heard Kristen, Carole and Lu refer to Beth missing stuff, but how in the world is it Heather's main gripe?

I have no idea, unless it's on the same order as how Heather's calling Aviva a "motherfucker" on one occasion has been turned into her saying it all the time and at the drop of a hat.

 

Hubba Hubba Mama!

Uh-oh!

[LotusFlower]

Kristen was fine doing the "butt rub" part of the "sandwich dance" with John, she got uncomfortable when he turned and tried to rub his groin into her while grabbing her and pulling her tighter against him. That would make me uncomfortable as well. If Dorinda is fine with her BF grinding his junk into other women, fine, but some women are not fine with him grinding his junk into them. Also, Kristen did not make a big deal about it, she was answering Ramona's inquiry about how she, Kristen, felt when Dorinda walked into the room. Notice, Ramona did not tell Dorinda that she, once again, brought up John's behavior to the another HW to stir up problems.

 

To quote Dorinda: if you don't want to sandwich, don't sandwich!  What you (and Kristen) seem to be saying is: well, I like half of the sandwich.  Screw that!  Listen, I'd be uncomfortable, too, if someone's bf was grinding on me like that.  But I would have realized I was flirting and participated in the so-called sandwich, and then made a note to self: don't flirt or dance with John anymore.  And here's what else I wouldn't do - tell my friend that her bf was inappropriate.  Yes, Ramona brought the subject up first, but the two of them were talking about it privately.  Nothing wrong with that.  But Kristen decided to disclose it to Dorinda.  I believe in the world of etiquette, the Countess would call that "not cool."

[Crikey]

John:  We have our gourmet sushi chef......

Bethy:  Fabulous.

John:  .......tonight and I think everyone's going to......

Bethy:  I only eat shellfish.  I will tell you right now, I only eat shellfish.  Only eat shellfish.

Dorinda:  Oh, god.

Bethy:  We'll deal with it when it comes out.

 

Might have been nice to allow the host to finish, no?

[FozzyBear]

To quote Dorinda: if you don't want to sandwich, don't sandwich! What you (and Kristen) seem to be saying is: well, I like half of the sandwich. Screw that! Listen, I'd be uncomfortable, too, if someone's bf was grinding on me like that. But I would have realized I was flirting and participated in the so-called sandwich, and then made a note to self: don't flirt or dance with John anymore. And here's what else I wouldn't do - tell my friend that her bf was inappropriate. Yes, Ramona brought the subject up first, but the two of them were talking about it privately. Nothing wrong with that. But Kristen decided to disclose it to Dorinda. I believe in the world of etiquette, the Countess would call that "not cool."

Why did Kristen do that? I almost felt for Ramona there. It was a total almost made it out moment.

[ryebread]

John:  We have our gourmet sushi chef......

Bethy:  Fabulous.

John:  .......tonight and I think everyone's going to......

Bethy:  I only eat shellfish.  I will tell you right now, I only eat shellfish.  Only eat shellfish.

Dorinda:  Oh, god.

Bethy:  We'll deal with it when it comes out.

 

Might have been nice to allow the host to finish, no?

Agreed. I thought it was strange the way she blurted it out.  She knows she's allergic and she's been dealing with the allergy for years.  So zip it.  And just deal.  We saw her furiously chewing something during the appetizer course so chances are, she wasn't hungry anymore anyway.

[SFoster21]

As to the good edit/bad edit debate: might just be me, but I think the edit gets overblown in importance. My opinion of Heather is what it has always been. I like her and think she has good intentions, but is extremely full of herself and is pretty obtuse about reading people. She should learn when to back the fuck off and let shit go. But I've thought that since S1 when she had her talking head about how Luanne "didn't get it" after being scolded AGAIN over the dress thing. My response was "what? She apologized for making anyone uncomfortable and explained her side of things to you and Carole, neither of whom were there. What the fuck doesn't she get, Heather? That you need your say-so in something that has nothing to do with you? That nobody's done talking until you're done talking?". I thought Heather was rude to Kristen about the Montana trip and pulled the same "I'm being a bitch to help you understand how wrong you are" move. It's always been there in spades, IMO, it's just a main story this time.

I'm trying to think of a time when editing did significantly change how I felt about a HW. Maybe Alexis on OC? She went from irritating to pretty likable to me, but I never hated her to begin with...

How about sneaking around LuAnn's room to catch her having sex? Not your business, Heather! None of your damned business!

[Trooper York]

Well to be honest about it you don't have to sneak around to catch Luann having sex. 

 

Just hang around some Pirates or friends from Italy and you will get more than you bargained for.

 

Not that there is anything wrong with that!

[WireWrap]

Why did Kristen do that? I almost felt for Ramona there. It was a total almost made it out moment.

IMO, Dornida left her little room, either she told the truth or she lied, she chose to be honest and was then slapped for it.  

 

How about sneaking around LuAnn's room to catch her having sex? Not your business, Heather! None of your damned business!

I thought it was Carole that caught Sonja, in the garden, with the pirate, not Heather spying on LuAnn.

[politichick]

No offense, but if someone treated my invitation and hospitality in that way, I'd feel belittled and they'd never be invited back -- you've been lucky in your hostesses, Sincerely!:) 

Except, as Bethenny noted, there were 20 people at that table and different conversations going on. You can even hear people talking at the other end of the table during the conflict between Bethenny and Heather. I think Heather was just jealous that Bethenny was so chatty with Sonja and the guy next to Sonja. I still can't get over her marching over to Bethenny to try to drag her into another room to do exactly what she said she didn't want to do. And what was that, "Well pay attention to Sonja" bit she said twice? She was totally jealous. Jonathan also seemed uncomfortable during that exchange.

IMO, Dornida left her little room, either she told the truth or she lied, she chose to be honest and was then slapped for it.  

 

I thought it was Carole that caught Sonja, in the garden, with the pirate, not Heather spying on LuAnn.

Or she could have just kept her mouth shut and let Ramona's explanation be the one they went with about how she didn't like what Luann did at the caviar party.

[LotusFlower]

Why did Kristen do that? I almost felt for Ramona there. It was a total almost made it out moment.

 

Right.  They almost escaped the awkwardness.  So why did Kristen say what she said?  Besides bad manners, I think maybe because men flirting and groping her has sort of become her "thing" on the show.  Remember last season when George groped her?  When this thing with John happened, she made reference to the earlier instance and said something along the lines of: oh no, not this again.  Or why does this always happen to me?  She said it in a TH, in her blog, and even in interviews promoting the season.  Let's face it, she doesn't have anything going on this season, so hey, at least it's something that she's engaged in and can talk about.  And she probably thought - who's going to defend the groping leach?  (Which explains the o face when Dorinda did exactly that).

[WireWrap]

Except, as Bethenny noted, there were 20 people at that table and different conversations going on. You can even hear people talking at the other end of the table during the conflict between Bethenny and Heather. I think Heather was just jealous that Bethenny was so chatty with Sonja and the guy next to Sonja. I still can't get over her marching over to Bethenny to try to drag her into another room to do exactly what she said she didn't want to do. And what was that, "Well pay attention to Sonja" bit she said twice? She was totally jealous. Jonathan also seemed uncomfortable during that exchange.

Or she could have just kept her mouth shut and let Ramona's explanation be the one they went with about how she didn't like what Luann did at the caviar party.

IMO, it was lie or tell the truth as Ramona sat the mute as always letting someone else take the blame for her crap stirring. I don't think Kristen is either quick enough or malicious enough to let the hammer fall on Ramona where it belonged. I was hoping to read Dorinda's take on this, once she saw the entire conversation before she walked into the room, in her blog this week but strangely she is silent, no blog so far.  I also suspect that Ramona was the one that told Dorinda something about Kristen feeling uncomfortable when she squealed on LuAnn and made Dorinda cry. I think Ramona told her ALL/most of the women were complaining about him to back up her own opinion. JMO

[SFoster21]

IMO, Dornida left her little room, either she told the truth or she lied, she chose to be honest and was then slapped for it.

I thought it was Carole that caught Sonja, in the garden, with the pirate, not Heather spying on LuAnn.

I could be wrong, but I have a recollection of C and H together sneaking around LuAnn's room.

[WireWrap]

I could be wrong, but I have a recollection of C and H together sneaking around LuAnn's room.

Carole said she heard 2 men's voices and realized 1 of them was LuAnn, then she told about seeing Sonja in the garden with the pirate and said she was surprised that Sonja liked a certain type of sex. It was Carole alone, not Heather.