One is the Loneliest Number: Unpopular GG Opinions

[FictionLover]

3 hours ago, shron17 said:

It was a revelation for me when Luke said she set up how their lives were.  That is completely in character for Lorelai through all of her relationships.  In Luke's case, I think he was okay with it unless she interfered in his family relationships.

The first thing that popped into my mind was that maybe season 6 might get mentioned and that it became that way because of Lorelai being afraid of getting too involved in April's life, and that Luke himself started the cycle back then. It was really disappointing that none of the issues were dealt with.  Even at the end of the revival when they decided to get married...all the stuff that was argued about in the diner was swept under the rug yet again.

[shron17]

33 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

Luke himself started the cycle back then. 

 In my opinion, Luke didn't start it with April.  Lorelai has always been that way.  She called the shots when she was with Max, she tried to call them with Luke and Jess and Luke and Nicole, and she called them when she started dating Luke.  She proposed, and then decided they couldn't get married until Rory was home.  She planned their whole wedding including the date.  She offered to postpone that date when Luke was feeling unsettled and then she decided without any further discussion in Partings that they had to elope that night or break up.  And she continued that in the Revival by deciding they should get married and even picked the date.

I know some people are unhappy with the Revival ending and felt LL's issues were unresolved, but I thought it was right for them.  They're in their late 40's and are partners despite the fact that neither of them wants anyone else to tell them what to do when it comes to their daughters, their families and their businesses.  Not every marriage has to be a complete melding of two lives.  There were a lot of subtle things throughout the Revival that showed how they are partners now and support each other, including the scenes of Lorelai helping in the diner, Luke at Richard's funeral, and Luke telling Michel he was mad at him for leaving the Dragonfly.  Also, there was enough closure for seasons 6 and 7 for me in Luke's monologue in Fall in the kitchen and the expressions on Lorelai's face.  I don't need to know exactly how they worked things out; it's enough to know that they did and have been able to move past the bad times.

Edited March 4, 2017 by shron17

[FictionLover]

18 hours ago, shron17 said:

 In my opinion, Luke didn't start it with April.  Lorelai has always been that way.  She called the shots when she was with Max, she tried to call them with Luke and Jess and Luke and Nicole, and she called them when she started dating Luke.  She proposed, and then decided they couldn't get married until Rory was home.  She planned their whole wedding including the date.  She offered to postpone that date when Luke was feeling unsettled and then she decided without any further discussion in Partings that they had to elope that night or break up.  And she continued that in the Revival by deciding they should get married and even picked the date.

I concede, you are right. I just always had such a hard time with Luke's behavior in the later part of season 6. Besides Lorelai setting the date and planning the wedding, I thought she was at her best with him.  The ultimatum was bad but I guess I understood it because of her frame of mind. It seemed to me she knew it was over and it was a last ditch effort to see if it was.  It's funny how people view things and what characters we love and hate.

21 hours ago, shron17 said:

It was a revelation for me when Luke said she set up how their lives were.  That is completely in character for Lorelai through all of her relationships.  In Luke's case, I think he was okay with it unless she interfered in his family relationships.

I thought he specifically said that she set the separate families up too. That's why I thought of the April situation from season 6 along with Lorelai always trying to shield Luke from her judgmental parents.  I could see them falling into that routine unconsciously.

18 hours ago, shron17 said:

I know some people are unhappy with the Revival ending and felt LL's issues were unresolved, but I thought it was right for them.  they're in their late 40's and are partners despite the fact that neither of them wants anyone else to tell them what to do when it comes to their daughters, their families and their businesses.  Not every marriage has to be a complete melding of two lives.  There were a lot of subtle things throughout the Revival that showed how they are partners now and support each other, including the scenes of Lorelai helping in the diner, Luke at Richard's funeral, and Luke telling Michel he was mad at him for leaving the Dragonfly. 

I need to re-watch it with your positive views on it.  I was unhappy with it and had it been a year or two later it would have been much more acceptable.  Really, nine years later and they are just now talking about kids.  So much wasted time with the musical, LDB and the whole Wild debacle just to accommodate certain actors to be included when there was so much dialog that needed to be said...and so much I will have to fast-forward through!

I said in another thread that I had a hard time reading the expressions on Lorelai's face and she used to be so good at it.  But I loved his declaration of love to her.  I am a LL shipper all the way and I wished for so much more for them.  But I loved them being perfectly dysfunctional for each other in the OS, and they are still the same couple.  I liked how he said "that's our house" and she said "this is home" at the diner.  So there was definitely comfort between the two. I was just disappointed there wasn't more personal growth.

21 hours ago, shron17 said:

ETA The scene at the Dragonfly showed Lorelai still put Rory first over her business and relationship. 

Yes, I got that too.  It showed in her description of her daughter and boyfriend at the campfire...her daughter is "amazing" and Luke is just a "good" guy. It also showed at the wedding...too much Rory!

I enjoy reading your thoughts and analysis on the revival!

[Kohola3]

58 minutes ago, FictionLover said:

I said in another thread that I had a hard time reading the expressions on Lorelai's face and she used to be so good at it. 

Plastic surgery and botox will do that.  Not that I fault anyone in Hollywood for those having procedures.  Parts for women of a certain age are slim,

[shron17]

4 hours ago, FictionLover said:

I said in another thread that I had a hard time reading the expressions on Lorelai's face and she used to be so good at it.

The part that did it for me was the obvious pain in her expression when Luke was talking about Christopher, "I had to watch you marry that guy and it was awful but we made it here."  Also her comment to the therapist about how it was always supposed to be Luke. 

[Chewy101]

On 3/1/2017 at 2:52 PM, AllyB said:

Sometimes even the best laid plans don't work out.

Best laid plans? About a one night stand? No plans there. Just like Rory's one night stand. Luckily, she has a village and a ton of money to make everything easy for her.

On 3/5/2017 at 8:36 AM, Kohola3 said:

 

On 3/5/2017 at 7:35 AM, FictionLover said:

I said in another thread that I had a hard time reading the expressions on Lorelai's face and she used to be so good at it. 

Plastic surgery and botox will do that.  Not that I fault anyone in Hollywood for those having procedures.  Parts for women of a certain age are slim,

 

I fault Graham. She is being cast in general to play exactly her age, so her vanity and botched procedures are not necessary. She is painful to look at.

[Frelling Tralk]

On 03/03/2017 at 6:39 PM, deaja said:

Why do you think he was a terrible father to Gigi?  Wanting to send her to Paris with the nanny was an error in judgment, but other than that, I don't see any evidence that he was terrible.

I thought that the series definitely showed him really wanting to be a more active parent this time around, and regretting missing out on Rory. He absolutely stepped up after Sheri left and seemed to be doing his best, but then the indication I got from the revival was that things ended up changing later on? Chris makes some comment about Gigi becoming a real Parisian, so I assumed from that that Gigi ended up spending most of her childhood in France with her mother, and in the end he didn't form much more of a connection with Gigi than he did with Rory 

Possibly I was reading too much into that comment, but that was the indication I got from that scene in the revival anyway, that Chris ended up falling back into his old patterns once Sheri decided that she wanted to be an active parent after all, but without the two of them as an item

[Taryn74]

1 hour ago, Frelling Tralk said:

Possibly I was reading too much into that comment, but that was the indication I got from that scene in the revival anyway, that Chris ended up falling back into his old patterns once Sheri decided that she wanted to be an active parent after all, but without the two of them as an item

It pains me to defend Christopher (even though I've never hated him, just saw him as 'weak' like Emily said) but I honestly can't understand saying that he isn't an active father when his child lives halfway around the world.  I don't really see how that's supposed to work any differently?

[txhorns79]

Quote

It pains me to defend Christopher (even though I've never hated him, just saw him as 'weak' like Emily said) but I honestly can't understand saying that he isn't an active father when his child lives halfway around the world.  I don't really see how that's supposed to work any differently?

I agree.  Unless the expectation is that he move to Paris, it seems like even if you want to be the most involved father possible, it's still going to be a pretty limited gig. 

[Anela]

That little bit with Chris was weird, in the revival. 

[FictionLover]

1 hour ago, Frelling Tralk said:

I thought that the series definitely showed him really wanting to be a more active parent this time around, and regretting missing out on Rory. He absolutely stepped up after Sheri left and seemed to be doing his best, but then the indication I got from the revival was that things ended up changing later on? Chris makes some comment about Gigi becoming a real Parisian, so I assumed from that that Gigi ended up spending most of her childhood in France with her mother, and in the end he didn't form much more of a connection with Gigi than he did with Rory 

Possibly I was reading too much into that comment, but that was the indication I got from that scene in the revival anyway, that Chris ended up falling back into his old patterns once Sheri decided that she wanted to be an active parent after all, but without the two of them as an item

I saw it as he still didn't learn to be an engaged father. He obviously still has a distant and strained relationship with Rory and a long distance relationship with Gigi, which is what it was like with Rory as she grew up. And it seems to fit with ASP's theme of history repeating itself. I never liked Christopher but I actually felt sorry for him in the revival. When Rory left, he just seemed empty and defeated by life. 

[Guest]

I'm not really sure how from one word "Parisian" you are getting that Gigi lives in Paris and has little to no contact with her father.  I know the Chris hate is strong for a lot of fans, but it could just as easily mean a) he has primary custody but she visits Sherry and tries to be Parisian because she thinks it's cool, b) he and Sherry split custody 50-50, but she's influenced by her time in Paris, c) she lives with Sherry primarily and he visits her monthly in Paris, or d) about 1000 other options.

[FictionLover]

9 minutes ago, deaja said:

I'm not really sure how from one word "Parisian" you are getting that Gigi lives in Paris and has little to no contact with her father.  I know the Chris hate is strong for a lot of fans, but it could just as easily mean a) he has primary custody but she visits Sherry and tries to be Parisian because she thinks it's cool, b) he and Sherry split custody 50-50, but she's influenced by her time in Paris, c) she lives with Sherry primarily and he visits her monthly in Paris, or d) about 1000 other options.

I did take it that way but more than anything it was the sadness that the actor portrayed that made me feel he had a life of regrets.

[Frelling Tralk]

5 hours ago, FictionLover said:

I did take it that way but more than anything it was the sadness that the actor portrayed that made me feel he had a life of regrets.

Same. I know that I'm probably reading too much into the Parisian comment, but Gigi ending up with Sherry in the end just seemed to fit with the whole vibe of that scene. I felt like they were portraying Christoper as not having any particularly close relationships in his life 

I can't see Christopher fighting that hard for joint custody if Sherry did ever have a change of heart about wanting to be the one to raise Gigi, I picture him then choosing to step back and leave her to it the way that he did with Lorelai 

Edited March 11, 2017 by Frelling Tralk

[moonb]

For some reason I had assumed that Gigi would be in boarding school in France, since she's supposed to be a teenager by the time of the revival.  I don't know where I got that fanwank from, other than it fits in with how Christopher himself was raised. Any way you explain it, Christopher's scene is, imo, supposed to show his loneliness. 

[hippielamb]

On 3/10/2017 at 1:24 PM, deaja said:

I'm not really sure how from one word "Parisian" you are getting that Gigi lives in Paris and has little to no contact with her father.  I know the Chris hate is strong for a lot of fans, but it could just as easily mean a) he has primary custody but she visits Sherry and tries to be Parisian because she thinks it's cool, b) he and Sherry split custody 50-50, but she's influenced by her time in Paris, c) she lives with Sherry primarily and he visits her monthly in Paris, or d) about 1000 other options.

I love Chris, and it seemed to me that he was inferring that Gigi lived with Sherry in Paris. Part of it was his attitude when talking to Rory. Also, he wanted Gigi to have a better relationship with her mom. Chris never wanted to be a full time dad and felt Gigi got shortchanged by only having him. 

On 3/10/2017 at 1:39 PM, FictionLover said:

I did take it that way but more than anything it was the sadness that the actor portrayed that made me feel he had a life of regrets.

There was a definite melancholy feel to that whole scene. 

[Chewy101]

11 hours ago, hippielamb said:

On 3/10/2017 at 0:39 PM, FictionLover said:

I did take it that way but more than anything it was the sadness that the actor portrayed that made me feel he had a life of regrets.

There was a definite melancholy feel to that whole scene. 

Rory was asking him how he feels about having been an absentee father to her- that could make anyone melancholy. He was totally there for his second kid. Not his fault he has to share custody across the globe. And having seen how much Rory needed a mom in her life, he was never going to deny Gigi that.      

I read into it only on Rory's side. For her to ask those questions out of the blue, I was filled with dread guessing she went and got herself knocked up,and was contemplating whether or not to involve "the dad" in the mess she has made out of her life. I hated being right about that, too. That last line in the series, it was the sound of a toilet flushing. A toilet filled with money and a degree or two. We know Rory is too selfish and flighty to be satisfied with waylaying her professional goals for mommyhood (she could not even avoid being the other woman TWICE because she has to get what she wants), which means Lorelei just got a husband AND a second baby in one fell swoop. No need for surrogacy now!

Edited March 12, 2017 by Chewy101

[AllyB]

I wonder how they would all feel if Gigi, the child raised by Christopher, grows up to be the sister with the more successful adult life. I could see her being driven by her father's unquestioning insistence on the brilliance of his older daughter despite her lack of adult achievement and all round not being an especially nice person. Gigi would look at this adult sister who never had any interest in her life, wasted her expensive education and yet has their father singing her praises whenever she comes up and she thinks, 'I'll show them.' Maybe she'd even become a foreign correspondent seeing as how she's bilingual and has experience living in different countries.

[Kohola3]

Quote

Not his fault he has to share custody across the globe.

Well, we don't know that.  We never really heard why Sherry left.  Maybe Christopher moped endlessly about his unrequited adoration of Lorelai and drove her across the ocean...

[Taryn74]

2 hours ago, AllyB said:

I wonder how they would all feel if Gigi, the child raised by Christopher, grows up to be the sister with the more successful adult life. I could see her being driven by her father's unquestioning insistence on the brilliance of his older daughter despite her lack of adult achievement and all round not being an especially nice person. Gigi would look at this adult sister who never had any interest in her life, wasted her expensive education and yet has their father singing her praises whenever she comes up and she thinks, 'I'll show them.' Maybe she'd even become a foreign correspondent seeing as how she's bilingual and has experience living in different countries.

I love this idea.  I love it HARD.

[Chewy101]

2 hours ago, Kohola3 said:

Quote

Not his fault he has to share custody across the globe.

Well, we don't know that.  We never really heard why Sherry left.  Maybe Christopher moped endlessly about his unrequited adoration of Lorelai and drove her across the ocean..

LOL! I always thought he was a bit of a loser, so I can totally believe this.

[clack]

Success is relative. Compared to alI the would-be writers pouring out of college each year, Rory has been highly successful -- she's actually made her living as a writer for what, 10 years? And not by doing pure hack work, either : she's published well-regarded pieces in prestigious venues.

It's just that we pick up her story in a moment of career crisis. Does being out of work after a decade of relative success in a very competitive field make you a failure? Would Rory be considered a failed writer if we picked up her story just a year earlier, when her New Yorker piece was causing a stir? And, presumably, writing a memoir presages a promising career turn for her -- project a few years into the future, and Rory might have become an acclaimed author.

Agreed, though, that Rory's personal life is currently a wreck. In that, she has failed.

[Chewy101]

10 minutes ago, clack said:

 

Success is relative. Compared to alI the would-be writers pouring out of college each year, Rory has been highly successful -- she's actually made her living as a writer for what, 10 years? And not by doing pure hack work, either : she's published well-regarded pieces in prestigious venues.

It's just that we pick up her story in a moment of career crisis. Does being out of work after a decade of relative success in a very competitive field make you a failure? Would Rory be considered a failed writer if we picked up her story just a year earlier, when her New Yorker piece was causing a stir? And, presumably, writing a memoir presages a promising career turn for her -- project a few years into the future, and Rory might have become an acclaimed author.

Agreed, though, that Rory's personal life is currently a wreck. In that, she has failed.

 

She proved to be incapable of writing someone else's memoirs... It seems all she can achieve is writing about herself. As for her personal life, it wasn't like she was even trying to be a good person. She spent the entire "Year in the Life" treating everyone like crap and acting like no woman deserves respect besides her. 

Back to her career, I don't see how she has made a living, when she has no home and no life. She uses everyone for storage because she can't even pay rent. She moved back in with mom because she can't conceive of supporting herself. Hardly an inspiring story. 

Remember when she turned Logan down for the rich house he offered so she could write? She didn't need it, because she had grandparents' house to use yet again. Nothing in her life was achieved without the benefit of privilege, and she has made a mess of all of it. Her claim to any ounce of independence is a joke. Financial and emotional... She is just a leech.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Chewy101

[shron17]

36 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

She proved to be incapable of writing someone else's memoirs..

It seemed to me that Naomi Shopshire was incapable of staying sober along to have her memoir written.  I wouldn't blame that on Rory, except for her questionable judgment to give as much time as she did trying. 

[Chewy101]

23 minutes ago, shron17 said:

 

1 hour ago, Chewy101 said:

She proved to be incapable of writing someone else's memoirs..

It seemed to me that Naomi Shopshire was incapable of staying sober along to have her memoir written.  I wouldn't blame that on Rory, except for her questionable judgment to give as much time as she did trying. 

 

It wasn't exactly in her wheelhouse, that is true. Journalism is not about flattery and shaping an image. She never should have taken that job.

I can only imagine how much she flattered herself in her own memoir, and how much she just left out.

[dubbel zout]

1 hour ago, clack said:

And, presumably, writing a memoir presages a promising career turn for her -- project a few years into the future, and Rory might have become an acclaimed author.

Did Rory have a signed (or implied) contract with a publisher for the memoir? I don't remember how concrete that was. 

[shron17]

26 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

It wasn't exactly in her wheelhouse, that is true. Journalism is not about flattery and shaping an image. She never should have taken that job.

According to the show I saw, Naomi broke off their agreement and had her lawyer demand Rory's notes back before much of anything had been shared to write.  The book didn't get written because of Naomi, not because of Rory's writing.

Edited March 12, 2017 by shron17

[clack]

The fact is, even many best-selling, prize-winning authors have a day job (teaching in a university, mostly). There is no shame in Rory struggling financially. She has made a living from her writing -- something only a tiny minority of writers are able to do -- but now realizes she needs a job, a steady paycheck. (The revival fails here, incidentally, in not addressing 1) Rory's trust funds and inheritances, and 2) why Logan, with all his media connections, can't find her a position. He can offer her a house, but not an editing job?)

[Chewy101]

4 minutes ago, clack said:

 

The fact is, even many best-selling, prize-winning authors have a day job (teaching in a university, mostly). There is no shame in Rory struggling financially. She has made a living from her writing -- something only a tiny minority of writers are able to do -- but now realizes she needs a job, a steady paycheck. (The revival fails here, incidentally, in not addressing 1) Rory's trust funds and inheritances, and 2) why Logan, with all his media connections, can't find her a position. He can offer her a house, but not an editing job?)

 

Why not one more hand out for Rory? Logan already got his dad to hook her up. And the shame is she was too good to consider the teaching job offered to her, so she still can't pay any bills.

But yes, thank goodness she has a trust fund. So she may eat again.

Edited March 12, 2017 by Chewy101

[Guest]

1 hour ago, shron17 said:

It seemed to me that Naomi Shopshire was incapable of staying sober along to have her memoir written.  I wouldn't blame that on Rory, except for her questionable judgment to give as much time as she did trying. 

I think she hung in there as long as she could because it gave her an excuse to be with Logan.

2 minutes ago, clack said:

The fact is, even many best-selling, prize-winning authors have a day job (teaching in a university, mostly). There is no shame in Rory struggling financially. She has made a living from her writing -- something only a tiny minority of writers are able to do -- but now realizes she needs a job, a steady paycheck. (The revival fails here, incidentally, in not addressing 1) Rory's trust funds and inheritances, and 2) why Logan, with all his media connections, can't find her a position. He can offer her a house, but not an editing job?)

It probably would have had to go through Mitchum, and thereby not good enough for the Princess who he once criticized.

[shron17]

3 minutes ago, deaja said:

It probably would have had to go through Mitchum, and thereby not good enough for the Princess who he once criticized.

It could have also tipped Mitchum off to what was going on between Rory and Logan which I imagine they both wanted to avoid. 

[Chewy101]

1 minute ago, shron17 said:

6 minutes ago, deaja said:

It probably would have had to go through Mitchum, and thereby not good enough for the Princess who he once criticized.

It could have also tipped Mitchum off to what was going on between Rory and Logan which I imagine they both wanted to avoid. 

In the final network season, he asked her to marry him and she said no. The series is back-peddling that she is some dirty secret now. She is definitely being a nightmare, but  I don't see a status issue at play here.

[shron17]

10 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

The series is back-peddling that she is some dirty secret now.

Circumstances changed.  Now Logan's working for his father again and he's engaged to someone else.  I don't buy into the idea that Logan's proposal 9 years ago means he still wants to be married to Rory.  Mitchum strikes me as someone who would be willing to use your dirty secrets against you if he felt he needed to. 

[Chewy101]

2 minutes ago, shron17 said:

 

18 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

The series is back-peddling that she is some dirty secret now.

Circumstances changed.  Now Logan's working for his father again and he's engaged to someone else.  I don't buy into the idea that Logan's proposal 9 years ago means he still wants to be married to Rory.  Mitchum strikes me as someone who would be willing to use your dirty secrets against you if he felt he needed to.

 

I definitely agree he would not want to be married to Rory. She was just a toy for him to screw over his girlfriend with. However, Mitchum might have been on board if there wasn't another girl in the forefront. I don't think she was kept a secret because of her "status." She was kept a secret because she wanted to be, and enjoyed being the other woman with no responsibilities. 

[shron17]

3 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

She was kept a secret because she wanted to be, and enjoyed being the other woman with no responsibilities. 

Yet, Logan didn't seem too interested in full disclosure with his offer to put her up in a hotel and when he gave her the key so she could secretly use Mitchum's beach house.  It's possible Rory turned down both of those offers because she didn't want to be his dirty secret.

[tarotx]

Rory didn't know how to deal with Naomi because she went in with an Idealistic view of the subject and it was turned on its head. Rory didn't now how to deal with Naomi but should have since "characters" is what makes Stars Hollow come alive. She was raised by weird after all. She didn't even take Logan serious when he was talking about everything he had heard about Naomi.  All she had to do was listen to Naomi talk, take notes, be a bit encouraging and write. The way Rory was on the phone with Naomi is the reason Rory was taken off the project. Just like the way she was with Sandy is why she didn't get that job. Plus Rory fell asleep interview a source and slept with another. She also didn't get intrigued by the people standing in line for nothing. Nor the story value of her mom being able to get all these things others were waiting in line for.

And we have no idea how successful Rory was as a writer. We are supposed to assume since her family thinks she was but all we see is the one success. I mean Luke going insane over the New Yorker piece makes it seems Rory has had limited success imo. Rory may have been on the Obama press pool for a while but it wasn't even mentioned.

Was Logan's family being in the business even mentioned? I mean Rory seemed shocked that Mitchum would have an inside with Conde Nast. I think the only mention of where the Huntzberger fortune came from was the Restaurant.  In fact, I know a few people who only watched the revival and think that Logan is from Old money but the family is now broke, and that is why he has to marry an heiress.

And as for as Christopher, they also stripped him of any OS good qualities. He was never a favorite character of mine since he always came back when he was down to leech on Lorelai's light. And while he did love Rory, she was never her own person, just an extension of Lorelai. Amy put him in the family business when he ran from it just as much as Lorelai. He just wasn't as successful finding himself.  He is now super alone without his daughters or his mother there to ground him -doing what he never wanted to do. I think Logan and Christopher were both forced into that stupid pointless Parallel.

[Chewy101]

1 minute ago, shron17 said:

6 minutes ago, Chewy101 said:

She was kept a secret because she wanted to be, and enjoyed being the other woman with no responsibilities. 

Yet, Logan didn't seem too interested in full disclosure with his offer to put her up in a hotel and when he gave her the key so she could secretly use Mitchum's beach house.  It's possible Rory turned down both of those offers because she didn't want to be his dirty secret.

Agreed. She didn't care at all about anyone else's feelings, but she definitely cares about her own. 

[shron17]

49 minutes ago, tarotx said:

The way Rory was on the phone with Naomi is the reason Rory was taken off the project.

You mean when Naomi called drunk and upset because her boyfriend wasn't answering her texts and apparently expected Rory to rescue her?  Seems like to a lot to expect from someone writing your bio with you on spec.  I agree Rory didn't handle Sandee Says in the best way but we heard Sandee ask Rory when she was going to come work for her more than once (not interview for a job).  I would have liked to see her do more with the article on lines but I guess she wasn't that interested in it. 

49 minutes ago, tarotx said:

She didn't even take Logan serious when he was talking about everything he had heard about Naomi. 

Logan, Mitchum and the Conde Nast people all seemed to know the book with Naomi wasn't going to work out.  I wish Rory had listened to them.

49 minutes ago, tarotx said:

And we have no idea how successful Rory was as a writer. We are supposed to assume since her family thinks she was but all we see is the one success.

Headmaster Charleston mentioned seeing her work in several high profile magazines, can't remember the names.  And in Winter she had another article that was going to be published (in the Atlantic?) but it fell through.  It was a shame to see her completely give up by summer--it seems like she could have still been using her contacts and writing and submitting articles from Stars Hollow.

Edited March 12, 2017 by shron17

[tarotx]

I think the Headmaster mentioned the New Yorker piece and something in Slate and the Atlantic but even he made it seem like her career was barely a success even if he kisses her ass at the same time.

And Rory was supposed to meet with Naomi the day of the phone call but she was a wreck. Yes Naomi's a character but that would be the fun of working with her.  And yes Sandy made it seem like she wanted to hire Rory but Rory had no ideas and she also had no ideas at her other meeting. The line project was handed to her. On spec again. Rory was doing everything on spec.  But her book idea was also handed to her by Jess. And once again she's writing it without a publishing deal.

[moonb]

Mitchum's one scene in the revival made me think that any job offer for Rory that came through him would carry some sort of non-financial price.  He was pretty clearly enjoying gloating around her and mentioned Odette also, iirc. Most of Rory's revival behavior was lazy or ridiculous, but I can't blame her for not accepting the house from Logan or any direct Huntzberger publishing/editing job. The Conde Nast bit could have been a decent indirect connection, if Rory had actually earned anything through really good work.  

[ZuluQueenOfDwarves]

To be fair, unless you're famous enough to come to a publisher with a built-in market, you don't pitch a book idea and then write it. You need to have a complete manuscript before an agent will take you on, and then the agent will pitch your book to publishing houses. You could skip the agent and court a small independent press like Truncheon yourself, but you'd still have to have 50 to 100 thousand words ready for your editor. 

Bear in mind too that agents and editors aren't interested in a one-trick pony. If they take on a project, they'll want the author to have other pitches and manuscripts they can option later. And unless you're Stephen King or JK Rowling, you're responsible for building your own social media platforms and creating your own publicity. And for all that effort, signing bonuses on book deals are MUCH smaller than they used to be. I'm talking maybe a $5,000 advance, then about four bucks a book in royalties. So an author looking to pull down a $50k/year income will have to sell 10k copies in a single year. 

This is obviously way too much reality for GG, so I'm sure come the Revival Part II Rory will be the George RR Martin of memoirs and fans of her HBO adaptation will be eagerly awaiting her next installment. My point was only that I can't fault Rory for writing her book without having a publishing deal in place. 

[Deputy Deputy CoS]

Quote

I definitely agree he would not want to be married to Rory. She was just a toy for him to screw over his girlfriend with

This is about the same character the fandom swear is favored by the show. 

[tarotx]

Logan went to public places with Rory, places that people would know him (places frequented by celebs&media like the Ivy and his family's restaurant. She was the one who freaked out. And Rory is the one who wanted to come to town early and she is the one who mentioned Vegas in Winter when concerning the Paul text. Rory freaked out about being set up in a hotel so that is what Logan found an answer too. Logan wasn't the one toying with Rory. Logan might have wanted her to be his mistress (for whatever reason) but Logan was there for Rory providing comfort and encouragement. Everything Rory vocalized she needed, Logan was where she went for an answer and he tried to provide. Which is the problem she ended up having at the end. She was using Logan to hide instead of finding ways to help herself. And Rory was Logan's answer to feeling alive and needed even if in his "real life" he felt neither was true. Rory and Logan are in a very very sad state of mind in the Revival. It's not at all fun as a fan of theirs. If Logan doesn't get away from thinking he's trapped in the family destiny, he has the potential to be a mini Mitchum. And if Rory doesn't save herself, she's like Christopher.

And Jess is a transient fairy Godfather character who we have no time spent on his story development and he still ended up woefully on the outside maybe longing for more but still leaving.

Edited March 13, 2017 by tarotx

[Catalpa]

7 hours ago, Chewy101 said:

I definitely agree he would not want to be married to Rory. She was just a toy for him to screw over his girlfriend with. 

It is WILD to me that this is how some people read the revival.  You definitely aren't alone from what I gather.  But, when I finished the revival I was 100% sure (and still am) that it was Rory's decision to keep things casual between her and Logan.  I think it is a real writing failure that the fans have come to such different conclusions about this.  Or they were trying to keep Rory's story completely ambiguous to serve the ending?  Or a mixture of both?  This has been said many times, but it's like they decided Rory was going to end up single and pregnant, then spent all their time writing the the musical and Emily and Lorelai's story lines and then had to scrape together something for Rory at the last minute.

[Lady Calypso]

1 hour ago, Catalpa said:

It is WILD to me that this is how some people read the revival.  You definitely aren't alone from what I gather.  But, when I finished the revival I was 100% sure (and still am) that it was Rory's decision to keep things casual between her and Logan.  I think it is a real writing failure that the fans have come to such different conclusions about this.  Or they were trying to keep Rory's story completely ambiguous to serve the ending?  Or a mixture of both?  This has been said many times, but it's like they decided Rory was going to end up single and pregnant, then spent all their time writing the the musical and Emily and Lorelai's story lines and then had to scrape together something for Rory at the last minute.

I'm not really sure where I fall with the Logan/Rory situation, because I kind of see and agree with both sides of the argument. Rory definitely enforced the idea that things should "stay in London", as she put it. Logan was fine with going out with her and taking her to family restaurants and doing normal, couple stuff. It's no surprise that at least Mitchum had an idea of Rory/Logan, and I'm sure others in his life saw it as well. It's only when Odette moved into Logan's place that things got more complicated for him in that Rory couldn't stay over anymore. Rory, in the meantime, kept things a secret back home, not telling anyone, not even her own mother, about the affair. Rory only became disinterested in continuing their casual relationship once Odette moved into Logan's place and when she had to move back to Stars Hollow. I think if Odette hadn't moved from Paris/France to London, then Rory would have continued the casual affair. Now that she didn't have her boy toy to screw and now that Odette was a real person in her mind (I think before Odette moved there that Rory could pretend that she didn't exist because they would never have to cross paths), that's when Rory was not ok with the casual relationship. 

Rory was pretty selfish and she was definitely using Logan as much as he was using her. But, at the end of it all, Logan is equally at fault and was using her just as much. He wanted to continue the casual relationship, even with Rory there. He didn't seem afraid of getting caught because he realized that his thing with Odette wasn't what he wanted, but at least he could have his cake and eat it too. 

So, I think I'm on both ends. Really, I just hated both of them by the time the Spring episode finished so I couldn't enjoy their cute scenes. I still can't, even going back to watch some. I know they're cute and romantic scenes and I know I'm supposed to enjoy them to some extent, but they're two awful people so I just can't. 

8 hours ago, shron17 said:

Headmaster Charleston mentioned seeing her work in several high profile magazines, can't remember the names.  And in Winter she had another article that was going to be published (in the Atlantic?) but it fell through.  It was a shame to see her completely give up by summer--it seems like she could have still been using her contacts and writing and submitting articles from Stars Hollow.

True; I just wish we actually saw her doing more writing. And it's not even just in the revival; she stopped writing articles on screen once she started going to Yale. It's an example of them telling us but not showing us. Instead of her damn tap dancing stress relief, we could have seen her actually writing on her laptop in the Stars Hollow Gazebo, or something. 

4 hours ago, ZuluQueenOfDwarves said:

This is obviously way too much reality for GG, so I'm sure come the Revival Part II Rory will be the George RR Martin of memoirs and fans of her HBO adaptation will be eagerly awaiting her next installment. My point was only that I can't fault Rory for writing her book without having a publishing deal in place. 

I've said this before, but it's so obvious that we're going to have Rory in the second season probably be going on a book tour/press tour while trying to juggle Baby Gilmore caretaking. Since the show insists on Rory being like ASP, with the meta book and everything, they'll want to give Rory success and I think that they think that being a successful author will do that. Or maybe not, because they did have Rory fail at pretty much everything in the revival. 

Part of me will be sad if it is super successful, just because about 200 other TV shows and films have had the exact same plot, and Jess' success as an author will look insignificant in the process, which I don't think it is. 

[Chewy101]

23 minutes ago, Lady Calypso said:

Rory was pretty selfish and she was definitely using Logan as much as he was using her. But, at the end of it all, Logan is equally at fault and was using her just as much. He wanted to continue the casual relationship, even with Rory there. He didn't seem afraid of getting caught because he realized that his thing with Odette wasn't what he wanted, but at least he could have his cake and eat it too. 

Agreed on this. Except that Logan isn't the protagonist. He was never really deemed as a "good guy," but yet another bad choice of Rory's. Someone else for this nightmare chick to redeem. Rory, I felt, was an attempted portrayal as a victim, and that is where I draw the line. They are both privileged and delusional, and truly deserve one another. However, all they do is use one another and their family's money. I could care less if they were end game. Logan is a man of grand gestures, and it appeals to her inner drama queen. They both make me groan. Rory has fallen so far from the character she was in the first couple of seasons. I just don't care what she does anymore. 

I am hoping this is a wookie baby, actually... Just to see how much of a joke Rory can become. 

[Kohola3]

8 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

Part of me will be sad if it is super successful, just because about 200 other TV shows and films have had the exact same plot, and Jess' success as an author will look insignificant in the process, which I don't think it is. 

I would be really surprised if it is super successful.  While there are undoubtedly fans out there that are not on the forums, the unhappy posters here are very articulate in their list of issues with the revival.  I think that many of us might watch the beginning of the first episode in the second round and, if it is as bad as the first one, bail out.  And if any Netflix execs read our comments I would think they might be concerned.  

ASP probably doesn't, she thinks herself so unique and clever.

[Chewy101]

3 minutes ago, Kohola3 said:

ASP probably doesn't, she thinks herself so unique and clever.

Sounds like a true Gilmore!

[glorie]

On Monday, March 13, 2017 at 1:10 PM, Chewy101 said:

Sounds like a true Gilmore!

Wasn't the plot (at least partly) autobiographical? Wasn't ASP's family very similar to Gilore family?

[lostandfound]

Does the person who posts the most unpopular Gilmore Girls opinions get a lifetime supply of Luke's coffee or maybe the world's largest pizza? Because I already know that I'm a contender. :-) 

I'll start with the worst: I prefer Lorelai with Christopher and don't enjoy her relationship with Luke. Like a few others here, I wanted to love Luke/Lorelai and have seen enough tv to have known from the pilot that they were inevitably going to be "end game," but they didn't click for me. I should also clarify that my fictional preferences in characters and relationships don't necessarily reflect who I am or what I value in real life, so I certainly understand why in reality Luke might seem the more solid choice for most people. But as a fictional couple, Lorelai and Luke were always somewhere between mildly diappointing and just plain terrible. They can't communicate at all and don't seem to have an emotional, intellectual or physical connection.

As others have pointed out, opposites attracting can work if we see how they balance out each other's weaknesses, challenge each other to see life from a different perspective and to try new things, and embrace and admire their differences instead of clashing over them. Instead, AS-P seemed to be on a mission to show us over and over again how incompatible Luke and Lorelai are on literally every level, and the actors couldn't convincingly pretend to be in love or even attracted to each other. Luke seemed a lot happier with Rachel and Lorelai seemed a lot happier with Christopher. Being with each other romantically seemed to showcase Lorelai and Luke's worst flaws while robbing them of their friendship.

Even though Christopher is the one Lorelai says in Farewell My Pet that she "wanted to want," that better fit how I viewed her relationship with Luke. Luke was the loyal and eternally devoted friend who she felt would never leave her, the one she would consider the safest choice despite his temper, bitterness and his issues in his other relationships.  And I felt like they tried at least a couple of times, saw it didn't work for many reasons, and should have gone back to being friends.

The revival just reinforced how lacking they are in communication, connection, and affection even though it probably wasn't trying to. (What the revival was trying to do remains something of a mystery.) It felt like LL were trying to talk themselves into believing they're happy together because they're determined not to let themselves fail at romance yet again but were resigning themselves to a relationship that didn't seem very happy, loving or close. Getting married was presented almost as them thinking "why keep dreaming or hoping for more, this is all there is so we'd better just accept it and learn to be satisfied with what we've got." 

Lorelai/Christopher was clearly not a couple viewers are supposed to root for, for many reasons, including that Luke is the blue collar joyless grump while Christopher was born with money and likes to be happy, and AS-P consistently distrusts and dislikes everyone with money and all men who smile and show any cheerfulness, joy or charm. And there are far more valid reasons to dislike and distrust Christopher too, but the thing I could never discount was how happy Lorelai seemed around him. Like others said, it was probably more an accident of chemistry between the actors than a deliberate choice by AS-P, but Lorelai just glowed around Christopher, looking more happy, alive and in love than with any other man, and his love for her came across as a lot deeper and more genuine to me than we were probably supposed to see it. There was a natural understanding and "click" between them, they communicated better during most of their doomed time together in Season 7 than LL ever have, they were compatible and connected and loving. And again, they seemed to make each other much happier, and that's the one thing I can't disregard. I know that I'm interpreting the characters and romantic relationships in ways that AS-P didn't intend, but I can't help seeing it that way.

Luke isn't even my second choice for Lorelai. That would be Jason or permanent singlehood, both of which I think suit her better than a romantic relationship with Luke. 

Lorelai and Rory are kind of awful, but I still enjoy them anyway, especially during the show's first few seasons. It's another example of how my real life views and preferences differ from what I enjoy from my fiction. I still love watching their relationship and it, along with the quotable dialogue, will always be the main allure of Gilmore Girls for me. 

This again might have more to do with actor chemistry than AS-P's intentions and writing, but I thought Rory/Jess, for all the problems that AS-P of course threw their way since she's staunchly opposed to writing happy and healthy relationships, still had more connection and chemistry than any other romantic couple of the series. I still root for them even though the rational part of me wants Jess to run far away from her and never return. 

Someone else said this already, but I agree that I prefer Season 7 to Season 5, Season 6 and especially A Year in the Life. And if given the choice I would rather have seen DR write the revival than AS-P and her husband. (To be honest, I feel sorry for her husband, because does anyone else get the feeling based on AS-P's interviews and her apparent view of romantic relationships that being married to her might not be an especially easy lot in life?!) 

Do Liz and TJ exist primarily so that we can sympathize more with Luke and understand why he's always so angry and annoyed all the time? That's the only reason I can see for creating characters who are that insufferable. 

Lane and Zach as a couple was one of the worst ideas the writers had, and that's saying something. 

I never minded that Rory has no friends other than a childhood friendhip with Lane that they seem to maintain partly out of habit, a somewhat hostile frenemy thing with Paris and her "freskishly close" link with her mom. I think that's fitting given her natural introversion, issues connecting with people on a close and open level, and how Lorelai made Rory her "best friend" from such a young age, unintentionally sending the message that Rory didn't need to reach out to her peers for companionship and support. 

This show is a mess, and I agree with almost critique and every snarky comment that you guys write, but I still love the first few seasons - especially S2 and S3- and can always rely on them to put me in a good mood. 

Thank you in advance for being so open and understanding. It's such a relief to have a safe place to confess our UOs!