General True Crime Shows

[MissAlmond]

19 minutes ago, Jeeves said:

I can see that ACTR would be expensive to produce. I think I commented on an episode in the first season, where in the background of an office scene you could see mini-blinds at a window. Out of focus but still obviously mini-blinds, and that wasn't a thing in the 1950's when that crime occurred.

Yes.  This.  There have been prime time shows set in the 40's/50's which had decent ratings and sometimes even excellent reviews but became too expensive and time consuming to constantly get every detail right.  It's why the TV series Wonder Woman was moved from the 40's to present time.  

It's too bad if ACTR is gone though.  There are great cases from the 30's that would have fit their criteria (I mentioned Ruth Snyder and the Bennett Bridge Murder case on the now vaulted forum). But if duplicating the 50's was hard, the 30's would have been even worst.  

Edited May 14, 2019 by MissAlmond

[LuvMyShows]

Just watched Murder Decoded "The Cocoon", and I gotta say I was SO sure that the scum-bucket way-too-old boyfriend who started pimping out the victim, was the perp.  He had the usual we-had-a-fight-and-she-walked-out story, which always spells g-u-i-l-t.  But it just goes to show that even the most guilty-seeming suspects/situations aren't always.

On 5/10/2019 at 6:54 PM, Tdoc72 said:

I hope this doesn’t make me an awful person but this week’s Never Say Goodbye was about the Katrina Smith case (wife killed by estranged husband).

This is the 3rd show I’ve seen about this case, which is an interesting case, but all I could think was I hope her super hot brother shows up again. He did. 

Oh, they also played the ridiculous tape of her husband trying to cry while talking to reporters. Big faker! 

I am not usually able to tell when the not-yet-revealed-as-guilty person is doing a fake emotional show for reporters but OMG this one was just awful!  I don't remember seeing this crime before, so I didn't know for sure he was guilty, but after he talked to the media, I figured he HAD to be guilty!

[geekgirl921]

3 hours ago, renatae said:

Just watched Unbreakable: Live to Tell about Heather Reid's family. It was hard to believe that her father went so nuts about her nephew not eating vegetables and would start fights four or five times a week with her half sister and her mother about not fixing vegetables.

It was so ironic that on the night he killed them, her mother was cleaning beets, carrots, cucumbers and green peppers from their garden when he shot her! I don't think I'll ever understand why they weren't having vegetables when they were growing their own!

Not to blame the victims, but I don't think I would have avoided serving vegetables when it could have prevented so much conflict on such a regular basis. The guy was a real control freak. I felt bad for Heather having to take on what was left of her family at such a young age.

I could be wrong but I think the vegetable thing was only about the teenage boy; it seemed like they made the vegetables but the kid didn't want to eat them and the father being the control freak he was continually made a big deal about it and would not let it go. I also think, if it hadn't been the vegetables, control freak dad would have been upset about something else. I was slightly amused that the father called the ride to work to tell him that he didn't need to pick him up. It's the second one where the murderer seemed overly concerned with missing work. 

[Guest]

This weeks finale of Unbreakable was so odd. I get everyone displays grief differently and tears are by no means mandatory, but Heather had such a bizarre detached, monotone, almost nonchalant delivery of even the most harrowing parts of her story. She talked about trying to stop her father from shooting like it was a memory from a high school lacrosse game or something. But her niece had the exact same emotionless tone when describing watching her mother be murdered in front of her at age 11 (and in present day she's 15, if that), so there's definitely something off about that entire family. The poor kids.

The strangest thing was that there was no telltale "warning signs from my childhood" segment. It was basically "my life was totally normal until the random half-sister I didn't know I had moved in" which feels like there's a massive chunk of back story missing. I guess she did mention the paranoia and end of days ranting, but wasn't that after the sister moved in? So we're supposed to believe this man was father of the year until children not eating vegetables set him off?

I'm ashamed now to admit I laughed out loud at what I thought was Heather's hyperfocus on the vegetable issue and phrases like "his hatred of vegetables just kept rising" until it turned out that that was the final inciting argument with her sister and the issue enraged the father to such a degree that this man actually said "that's what you get for not eating your vegetables" to his horrified grandchildren after delivering the kill shot to their mother. If you didn't know it was from an actual case, it sounds like an SNL comedy sketch along the lines of Dear Sister. It's safe to say even as a veteran ID channel viewer, that's one of the most unusual triggers. Yes he was obviously unstable, but…you really murdered half your family over not eating vegetables? in reality, I'm hoping that it was actually precipitated by him catching wind of the divorce talk and he deflected by hyper fixating on his usual vegetable issue, because I refuse to process the horrible tragedy of a mother of young children being murdered over something so stupid. I mean pretty much every reason is stupid, but that one takes the cake for sure.

It has to make you wonder what was going on in the sisters life that she would uproot her kids across country, arrive and see her estranged father ranting about the news and yelling at her for hours on end about vegetables and still think "yeah, this is still a preferable living situation and a better environment for my kids."

[geekgirl921]

42 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

This weeks finale of Unbreakable was so odd. I get everyone displays grief differently and tears are by no means mandatory, but Heather had such a bizarre detached, monotone, almost nonchalant delivery of even the most harrowing parts of her story. She talked about trying to stop her father from shooting like it was a memory from a high school lacrosse game or something. But her niece had the exact same emotionless tone when describing watching her mother be murdered in front of her at age 11 (and in present day she's 15, if that), so there's definitely something off about that entire family. The poor kids.

The strangest thing was that there was no telltale "warning signs from my childhood" segment. It was basically "my life was totally normal until the random half-sister I didn't know I had moved in" which feels like there's a massive chunk of back story missing. I guess she did mention the paranoia and end of days ranting, but wasn't that after the sister moved in? So we're supposed to believe this man was father of the year until children not eating vegetables set him off?

I'm ashamed now to admit I laughed out loud at what I thought was Heather's hyperfocus on the vegetable issue and phrases like "his hatred of vegetables just kept rising" until it turned out that that was the final inciting argument with her sister and the issue enraged the father to such a degree that this man actually said "that's what you get for not eating your vegetables" to his horrified grandchildren after delivering the kill shot to their mother. If you didn't know it was from an actual case, it sounds like an SNL comedy sketch along the lines of Dear Sister. It's safe to say even as a veteran ID channel viewer, that's one of the most unusual triggers. Yes he was obviously unstable, but…you really murdered half your family over not eating vegetables? in reality, I'm hoping that it was actually precipitated by him catching wind of the divorce talk and he deflected by hyper fixating on his usual vegetable issue, because I refuse to process the horrible tragedy of a mother of young children being murdered over something so stupid. I mean pretty much every reason is stupid, but that one takes the cake for sure.

It has to make you wonder what was going on in the sisters life that she would uproot her kids across country, arrive and see her estranged father ranting about the news and yelling at her for hours on end about vegetables and still think "yeah, this is still a preferable living situation and a better environment for my kids."

I too was struck by the affect of the daughter and the granddaughter too. It seemed almost like the daughter is pushing down the emotions and hasn't dealt with her feelings. I hope not because I think it will be very painful when the emotions come out.

The vegetable thing was very weird but I think he was such a control freak, that it could have been any number of things that brought on the attack.

[funky-rat]

2 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I could be wrong but I think the vegetable thing was only about the teenage boy; it seemed like they made the vegetables but the kid didn't want to eat them and the father being the control freak he was continually made a big deal about it and would not let it go. I also think, if it hadn't been the vegetables, control freak dad would have been upset about something else. I was slightly amused that the father called the ride to work to tell him that he didn't need to pick him up. It's the second one where the murderer seemed overly concerned with missing work. 

I dozed off and missed the end of this one, so I had to look it up.  I found an article that said that he had an issue with the boy not eating his vegetables, and the daughter not parenting the boy correctly.  He also said that his daughter from his first marriage yelled at him, and that "scrambled him" because she sounded just like his ex wife (I'm assuming the girl's mother).  He was also angry that they came home and turned all the lights on, with them being aware of the money issues.  Sorry if that info was in the show - I missed the ending.

It could also be that "vegetables" was some bone of contention between the dad and a family member when he was little - not sure if they touched on that or not, but it could explain him being fixated on it, and his anger when no one forced the kid to eat them.  There were things my late MIL (who was mentally unbalanced) would fixate on that would make no sense to us, but she could really go off the deep end about it.  Some of it was just because she was off, and some were things that went back to her childhood.  Could be he was proud of the veggies they grew and he saw the boy not eating them as a slap in the face.  Could be he felt that his ex-wife didn't parent their daughter correctly, and the daughter was repeating her mistakes.  Could be that he regretted inviting his other daughter here.  Lots of possibilities, and the dad really isn't saying much.

What I found really odd was that Heather said her sister had medical training.  I thought she said something about being a nurse first, then said something about being a caregiver.  Then she later says the sister was having trouble finding work.  Not sure about Arkansas, but around here, they're screaming for caregivers.  Experienced ones can make decent money.  So there could be more at play there too.

Before I dozed off, they were making it sound like there was money missing - like someone was stealing - but in the end, it sounds like that went nowhere, and the dad just couldn't afford to keep paying the bills for everyone.

Edited May 14, 2019 by funky-rat

[Annber03]

10 hours ago, renatae said:

Just watched Unbreakable: Live to Tell about Heather Reid's family. It was hard to believe that her father went so nuts about her nephew not eating vegetables and would start fights four or five times a week with her half sister and her mother about not fixing vegetables.

It was so ironic that on the night he killed them, her mother was cleaning beets, carrots, cucumbers and green peppers from their garden when he shot her! I don't think I'll ever understand why they weren't having vegetables when they were growing their own!

Not to blame the victims, but I don't think I would have avoided serving vegetables when it could have prevented so much conflict on such a regular basis. The guy was a real control freak. I felt bad for Heather having to take on what was left of her family at such a young age.

That story was nuts. Heather and the kids all had to witness their respective parents being shot. Just...damn. And not to get all political, but it didn't surprise me one bit that this guy kept ranting away at all these news stories he kept hearing about these supposed efforts to "take away his guns" and whatnot...only for him to go on and prove precisely why he shouldn't have had any access to guns whatsoever. 

And yes to the guy calling someone they work with and telling them they won't be in to work because they murdered people! I did not realize that was a thing some killers were apparently concerned about.

Edited May 14, 2019 by Annber03

[renatae]

On 5/5/2019 at 10:34 PM, Brattinella said:

Does anyone hate Paula Zahn as much as I do?

Especially her promo talking about "how hard it is" for her to grill people on her show but it's "necessary." Blah.

[renatae]

On 5/8/2019 at 9:30 AM, SunnyBeBe said:

This is so bizarre.  I was recently going through a bunch of old family papers and found a newspaper article announcing that my great uncle was coroner for his county.  I did't understand how, because he was not a medical doctor......hmmmm....interesting. It must have been a thing back in the day. 

Back before about 1980, coroner was an elected position (not sure if it still is around here) and it was rare for them to be actual MD's. I remember when I realized that, I was shocked. Then around the time of Quincy, M.E. there was a movement to elect actual physicians, and IIRC, the show was a major push toward that. One wonders how they functioned, not being actual physicians.

The one from my hometown had been in office for many years, and I had occasion to meet him while working at the Children's hospital. It was a tragic case; a little girl had been hit by a car while chasing an ice cream truck. Beautiful girl without a mark on her, arrived DOA. One I will never forget. The Coroner, although not an M.D. seemed very knowledgeable.

Edited May 15, 2019 by renatae

[funky-rat]

13 hours ago, renatae said:

Back before about 1980, coroner was an elected position (not sure if it still is around here) and it was rare for them to be actual MD's. I remember when I realized that, I was shocked. Then around the time of Quincy, M.E. there was a movement to elect actual physicians, and IIRC, the show was a major push toward that. One wonders how they functioned, not being actual physicians.

The one from my hometown had been in office for many years, and I had occasion to meet him while working at the Children's hospital. It was a tragic case; a little girl had been hit by a car while chasing an ice cream truck. Beautiful girl without a mark on her, arrived DOA. One I will never forget. The Coroner, although not an M.D. seemed very knowledgeable.

Coroners are still elected here.  I don't know about the requirements, but I do know that many times in the past, they were at least paramedics and/or funeral directors.

[geekgirl921]

I forgot to post this earlier so I guess I am not as annoyed as I was but it really annoys me when ID slaps a new name on an old show and then it comes up as new on my guide. There were two on this weekend!

[Brattinella]

46 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

I forgot to post this earlier so I guess I am not as annoyed as I was but it really annoys me when ID slaps a new name on an old show and then it comes up as new on my guide. There were two on this weekend!

Yep, I consider that dirty pool.

[Jordan61]

8 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

I forgot to post this earlier so I guess I am not as annoyed as I was but it really annoys me when ID slaps a new name on an old show and then it comes up as new on my guide. There were two on this weekend!

Oh yeah I HATE that.

[SunnyBeBe]

I've been trying to find a thread for the show Accident, Suicide or Murder.  Anyone watching it?  OMG, I just saw one of the featured cases about a young woman named Morgan, who is found dead in her bed.  She lived with her parents.  Her parents claim that she had been dealing with a stalker.....the investigative team goes to work to figure out WHAT REALLY happened to the young woman.  She died from a drug overdose, from meds that she was prescribed for abdominal migraines.  They ended up giving the parents a polygraph.  It was quite interesting.  Just curious as I wanted to compare what I saw to other viewers.    

[Jordan61]

4 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I've been trying to find a thread for the show Accident, Suicide or Murder.  Anyone watching it?  OMG, I just saw one of the featured cases about a young woman named Morgan, who is found dead in her bed.  She lived with her parents.  Her parents claim that she had been dealing with a stalker.....the investigative team goes to work to figure out WHAT REALLY happened to the young woman.  She died from a drug overdose, from meds that she was prescribed for abdominal migraines.  They ended up giving the parents a polygraph.  It was quite interesting.  Just curious as I wanted to compare what I saw to other viewers.    

Oh I HIGHLY recommend listening to the Sword & Scale podcast about this case if it interested you! The mom is in deep, deep denial about what happened to her daughter. I think they even went on Dr. Phil claiming she had been murdered.

[Toothbrush]

I've seen Morgan's story on other shows & feel so bad for her parents. Their denial is the only thing allowing them to function at this point. 

I have this one on my DVR but haven't watched it yet. As horrible as this sounds, I was glad (for lack of a much better word) to see that not all of them would be murders, which is all I have seen on this show thus far. 

[SunnyBeBe]

12 hours ago, Jordan61 said:

Oh I HIGHLY recommend listening to the Sword & Scale podcast about this case if it interested you! The mom is in deep, deep denial about what happened to her daughter. I think they even went on Dr. Phil claiming she had been murdered.

Oh, I'm not surprised. I'm not sure what it was, but, as the investigators were talking with the parents and they were describing the stalker.....things didn't sound right. One question I had is how would a stalker know which rooms the daughter was in?  Someone else could have been in the shower when someone knocked on shower window.  Plus, why didn't the parents get better cameras so the person could be identified? Their contentions seemed fabricated to me. 

When the female investigator said that she was shocked and not prepared for the polygraph to reveal their deception, I thought, well, I was.  If that investigator didn't pick up on that, then.....IDK.  She must have been personal friends with them or something. I missed the first part.  

It is amazing the number of people who cannot accept that someone took their own life, whether by accident or on purpose.  I'm not sure what Morgan's parents get out of choosing to believe it was a murder.  To me, that's worse than accidental.  

[funky-rat]

3 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Oh, I'm not surprised. I'm not sure what it was, but, as the investigators were talking with the parents and they were describing the stalker.....things didn't sound right. One question I had is how would a stalker know which rooms the daughter was in?  Someone else could have been in the shower when someone knocked on shower window.  Plus, why didn't the parents get better cameras so the person could be identified? Their contentions seemed fabricated to me. 

When the female investigator said that she was shocked and not prepared for the polygraph to reveal their deception, I thought, well, I was.  If that investigator didn't pick up on that, then.....IDK.  She must have been personal friends with them or something. I missed the first part.  

It is amazing the number of people who cannot accept that someone took their own life, whether by accident or on purpose.  I'm not sure what Morgan's parents get out of choosing to believe it was a murder.  To me, that's worse than accidental.  

Could be religious reasons.  Could be they feel they failed as parents.  Could be they feel their social status will be affected.  Lots of reasons, but the ones who just can't let it go are the ones that slay me.

A former co-worker had a cousin who died in what was deemed a suicide initially.  This was right around the time I left that job, so I don't know how it turned out, and I can't recall the name of the girl to look it up.  They were a religious family, so I "got" their initial balking at it, but after the reports started coming out, there were some suspicious aspects of it.  The girl was tiny, and was found hanging from a plant hook in the ceiling.  She was wearing a hoodie, and the hood was hooked to the plant hook.  The one investigator didn't believe it was possible for her to hang herself with just the neck of the hoodie, and didn't believe that the plant hook would hold her weight (even with her being tiny) if she kicked out a stool or something underneath her.  She had just broken up with a boyfriend, and the relationship had been volatile.  So there was plenty there to cast some doubt, and the cops were investigating further, but what happened after that is an unknown to me.  If it eventually was confirmed as suicide, I believe they would have finally accepted it.  I couldn't see them being THAT deep in denial, but it sadly does happen.

Edited May 21, 2019 by funky-rat
Spelling Counts

[SunnyBeBe]

35 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

Could be religious reasons.  Could be they feel they failed as parents.  Could be they feel their social status will be affected.  Lots of reasons, but the ones who just can't let it go are the ones that slay me.

A former co-worker had a cousin who died in what was deemed a suicide initially.  This was right around the time I left that job, so I don't know how it turned out, and I can't recall the name of the girl to look it up.  They were a religious family, so I "got" their initial balking at it, but after the reports started coming out, there were some suspicious aspects of it.  The girl was tiny, and was found hanging from a plant hook in the ceiling.  She was wearing a hoodie, and the hood was hooked to the plant hook.  The one investigator didn't believe it was possible for her to hang herself with just the neck of the hoodie, and didn't believe that the plant hook would hold her weight (even with her being tiny) if she kicked out a stool or something underneath her.  She had just broken up with a boyfriend, and the relationship had been volatile.  So there was plenty there to cast some doubt, and the cops were investigating further, but what happened after that is an unknown to me.  If it eventually was confirmed as suicide, I believe they would have finally accepted it.  I couldn't see them being THAT deep in denial, but it sadly does happen.

I think I recall a case like that!  I saw on tv a few years ago. 

[funky-rat]

4 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I think I recall a case like that!  I saw on tv a few years ago. 

She lived near Harrisburg PA.  I don't recall her last name at all, and her first name was...I think...Jennifer, but I'm not sure about that either.  That's all I can really remember.  It would have been before early 2002, when I left the job, but later than 1998-ish, because that co-worker came in a few years after I started.  I know where that co-worker is (she's at the same job, but she doesn't live far from me) but I would feel funny asking her about it.

[SunnyBeBe]

12 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

She lived near Harrisburg PA.  I don't recall her last name at all, and her first name was...I think...Jennifer, but I'm not sure about that either.  That's all I can really remember.  It would have been before early 2002, when I left the job, but later than 1998-ish, because that co-worker came in a few years after I started.  I know where that co-worker is (she's at the same job, but she doesn't live far from me) but I would feel funny asking her about it.

I wish that I could recall the name of the crime docu that covered this story.  It has to be the same case, because the details are so much alike. 

[funky-rat]

1 minute ago, SunnyBeBe said:

I wish that I could recall the name of the crime docu that covered this story.  It has to be the same case, because the details are so much alike. 

I've tried to find out about the case over the years with no luck, mainly because I wanted to know how it ended up.  I know the co-workers maiden name, but I believe that this was from the other side of her family, so doesn't help.  I attended 2 funerals for her family while I worked with her, and I checked for old obits for both, thinking the name might be in there as a "preceded in death by...." type thing, but no luck there either.  I even tried Find A Grave, because they sometimes have obits linked, to photos of graves, but her family hasn't had their graves photographed yet.

If it pops up in your head, let me know.  

[SunnyBeBe]

11 minutes ago, funky-rat said:

I've tried to find out about the case over the years with no luck, mainly because I wanted to know how it ended up.  I know the co-workers maiden name, but I believe that this was from the other side of her family, so doesn't help.  I attended 2 funerals for her family while I worked with her, and I checked for old obits for both, thinking the name might be in there as a "preceded in death by...." type thing, but no luck there either.  I even tried Find A Grave, because they sometimes have obits linked, to photos of graves, but her family hasn't had their graves photographed yet.

If it pops up in your head, let me know.  

Okay. Are you sure the death occurred in Harrisburg, PA and that her first name was Jennifer?

[funky-rat]

7 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Okay. Are you sure the death occurred in Harrisburg, PA and that her first name was Jennifer?

It was the Harrisburg area, and I am 95% sure that was her first name.

[Annber03]

On 5/20/2019 at 3:40 PM, SunnyBeBe said:

I've been trying to find a thread for the show Accident, Suicide or Murder.  Anyone watching it?  OMG, I just saw one of the featured cases about a young woman named Morgan, who is found dead in her bed.  She lived with her parents.  Her parents claim that she had been dealing with a stalker.....the investigative team goes to work to figure out WHAT REALLY happened to the young woman.  She died from a drug overdose, from meds that she was prescribed for abdominal migraines.  They ended up giving the parents a polygraph.  It was quite interesting.  Just curious as I wanted to compare what I saw to other viewers.    

Oh! If this is the case I'm thinking of, I saw that one on an episode of "Suspicion" once. It's a very, very odd story, indeed, and I remember the mom seemed hellbent on refusing to accept her death might be her own doing. 

I'll have to check out that "Accident..." episode whenever the rerun airs, 'cause I'm curious to see if it's the same case, and if so, see another take on it. 

7 hours ago, SunnyBeBe said:

It is amazing the number of people who cannot accept that someone took their own life, whether by accident or on purpose.  I'm not sure what Morgan's parents get out of choosing to believe it was a murder.  To me, that's worse than accidental.  

The part that always gets me when people refuse to believe their loved one could've committed suicide is when they say something like, "They loved their family/friends, they would never do that!", as though people who commit suicide didn't love or care about their loved ones. If anything, from what I've heard about those who've committed suicide or attempted suicide, most of them do believe they're doing this out of love, because they don't want to put their family/friends through any more burden or stress or whatnot. 

I have no doubt it would be hard to reconcile somebody you love would want to kill themselves, for all the reasons @funky-rat mentioned. It'd be scary to have to confront all those questions and guilt and confusion and anger and such. But yeah, the longer some people stay in denial about somebody they love taking their own life, the harder that's going to make everything when reality does finally sink in for them. 

Edited May 21, 2019 by Annber03

[SunnyBeBe]

Good points.  Another thing that I noticed on Accidents, Suicide or Murder, is that the investigators were trying to get info from the deceased person's friends as to what she was doing the night before her death.  They seemed very intent to know if she seemed distraught, troubled, etc.  What they didn't consider is that from what I have read and heard, people who attempt suicide are not always outwardly depressed, upset, etc just before they harm themselves.  Some appear more content, because they have come to a decision and are at peace with it. They may actually seem happier, because, they know they will not be suffering anymore.  I thought that was something that the investigators need to brush up on, if they are investigating suicide.  It's not just a distraught person doing something rash.  

Edited May 21, 2019 by SunnyBeBe

[Annber03]

17 minutes ago, SunnyBeBe said:

Good points.  Another thing that I noticed on Accidents, Suicide or Murder, is that the investigators were trying to get info from the deceased person's friends as to what she was doing the night before her death.  They seemed very intent to know if she seemed distraught, troubled, etc.  What they didn't consider is that from what I have read and heard, people who attempt suicide are not always outwardly depressed, upset, etc just before they harm themselves.  Some appear more content, because they have come to a decision and are at peace with it. They may actually seem happier, because, they know they will not be suffering anymore.  I thought that was something that the investigators need to brush up on, if they are investigating suicide.  It's not just a distraught person doing something rash.  

YES. Another excellent, very important point. Years back, when my dad was working at a radio station in another town, he got word one night that his boss had committed suicide. My dad was shocked by this, and I remember him talking about how, the week before, he'd been talking with his boss and the guy had talked about all these planned meetings he and the staff were going to have in the coming weeks for the usual station-related stuff, and was talking about upcoming events for the station, and things of that sort. He seemed very upbeat and happy and was laughing and joking around with his workers and everything. No indication he was planning to end his life. And yet...

[walnutqueen]

Upthread's discussion about coroners and medical examiners was somewhat prescient, since the main topic of Last Week Tonight with John Oliver on Sunday was about this very topic.  Some of the information I gleaned was illuminating; it is well worth the watch here.

If you can't bother watching, highlights include the factiods that over half a million (of the over 2.8 million deaths a year) are investigated, possibly by a forensic autopsy; about 2/3 of death investigations are performed by coroners (with shockingly few qualifications), not medical examiners; the most appalling conditions and people performing these critical tasks exist almost everywhere; medical organizations have been calling for the coroner system to be abolished (and replaced by medical examiners, who are also not so "clean") since 1857; state funded medical examiners make less than half of what they could in other specialties; there are only 500 board certified forensic pathologists practicing the US; outsourcing to private businesses - some scary sketchy (grifter's back alley autopsy shanty!) is common; and Glenn Close doesn't want her spleen eaten by a coroner's dog.

[funky-rat]

Another suicide tip is that people may tie up loose ends or give things away shortly before.  Tying up loose ends could also be a sign that someone is ill and their subconscious knows it. 

[geekgirl921]

Did anyone watch Diabolical last night. I never understand these women who lie about pregnancy especially this one, since according to the sister she never wanted kids. I guess I can understand in the heat of the moment, claiming to be pregnant as a desperate ploy but come on, even if you don't want to admit that you lied, there is plenty of time to "lose" the baby.

[Brattinella]

26 minutes ago, geekgirl921 said:

Did anyone watch Diabolical last night. I never understand these women who lie about pregnancy especially this one, since according to the sister she never wanted kids. I guess I can understand in the heat of the moment, claiming to be pregnant as a desperate ploy but come on, even if you don't want to admit that you lied, there is plenty of time to "lose" the baby.

Yes, I watched that mess.  The woman killer is one of the most despicable creatures I've ever seen.  She didn't get nearly enough punishment.

[Annber03]

1 hour ago, geekgirl921 said:

Did anyone watch Diabolical last night. I never understand these women who lie about pregnancy especially this one, since according to the sister she never wanted kids. I guess I can understand in the heat of the moment, claiming to be pregnant as a desperate ploy but come on, even if you don't want to admit that you lied, there is plenty of time to "lose" the baby.

God, yes. She was so calculated, too, going so far as to call the poor girl's mom and keep up this crazy ruse. And the way she searched for her potential victim online, looking through the women's social media accounts and stuff...it's enough to make one wary of ever daring to talk about their pregnancies online, even if it's just among family and friends. 

It is deeply disturbing how many stories of this sort seem to be out there, too. I've lost count of how many times a story will pop up in the news of a woman killing another woman and stealing her baby to pass off as their own. A lot of the cases had the woman cutting the baby out of the other woman's body as well. Some of it, I have to think, is no doubt due to all the societal pressure women feel to have kids, and the feeling a lot of women have that they're not "complete" without a man and a baby, to the point where that can drive a few women to such desperate means. But I don't know that that alone can explain this phenomenon. It's just so bizarre. 

[MissAlmond]

15 hours ago, Annber03 said:

Some of it, I have to think, is no doubt due to all the societal pressure women feel to have kids, and the feeling a lot of women have that they're not "complete" without a man and a baby, to the point where that can drive a few women to such desperate means. But I don't know that that alone can explain this phenomenon. It's just so bizarre. 

But aren't the vast majority of women in these cases trying to hold on to a man?  They can't be couples very much together because men today usually accompany their  significant others at least once to the ob/gyn and would know if there was no pregnancy. 

[Fable]

On 5/22/2019 at 5:16 PM, geekgirl921 said:

Did anyone watch Diabolical last night. I never understand these women who lie about pregnancy especially this one, since according to the sister she never wanted kids. I guess I can understand in the heat of the moment, claiming to be pregnant as a desperate ploy but come on, even if you don't want to admit that you lied, there is plenty of time to "lose" the baby.

It is stories like this one that make me glad I don't really do much social media.  

I do have a Facebook account which I don't really use.  I mainly have it to make sure my dear, dear children are alive and kicking since they don't call every day, as a dutiful child should.  😉

[Annber03]

On 5/23/2019 at 9:04 AM, MissAlmond said:

But aren't the vast majority of women in these cases trying to hold on to a man?  They can't be couples very much together because men today usually accompany their  significant others at least once to the ob/gyn and would know if there was no pregnancy. 

Hell, forget going with them to the doctor, in regards to the stories of this sort we've seen where the guys are currently in a relationship with the woman making up these stories, I'm still trying to figure out how they live with them and sleep next to them at night and still don't realize something's up.

But yeah, in this case, this woman was hoping this would bring the guy back to her. It's just beyond sad that she felt she needed to have a guy in her life to the point where she would pull such a desperate, outlandish scheme to make that happen. 

On a different topic, so I was just watching this "Sex, Lies, and Murder" show on the Reelz channel, and I heard a story about a guy named Steven Pladl who killed three family members (and that's not all he did, either). 

Holy. Shit. That story was bonkers. And utterly heartbreaking and disturbing. What a creepy asshole. I have no doubt that story will pop up on some show on Investigation Discovery at some point. 

[SunnyBeBe]

OMG, if this was not the most convoluted mess that I've seen in a long time.  Okay.  story set in Texas and featured on Accident, Suicide or Murder.  Husband is police officer who is severe alcoholic.  He abuses wife, frightens wife after marriage by shooting into their pool, pointing gun at her, and even shooting into the wall above her head as she lies in bed. Police reports confirm this.  His violent, out of control behavior extends to fighting in bars and one incident finally results in him losing his job.  Wife leaves due to fear, but, she wants to save marriage, thinks he's good on the inside and returns. Her family told her that he would kill her. She should have listened and not returned. 

Later, after a night out for dinner with husband, wife is found dead in that same bed with gunshot would to chest. Husband claims she shot herself. lol  Even though he is the only, violent, trigger happy, maniac in the house. Soooo, the police take his word and refuse to investigate or prosecute him!  The family has to get a private investigator to go before a Grand jury to get an indictment!  And, even then, the DA refuses to prosecute and the judge has to commission 2 private defense attorneys to prosecute.  AND, the police and DA's office do all they can to defend this husband.  The gun was husband's and had been modified to make it extremely difficult to pull trigger.  Plus, blood spatter on husband.  Anyway, he was found guilty and sentenced to 15-30 years. EVEN THEN, the police and DA's office go to extreme lengths to get him a new trial and even bring in the Texas Innocence Project to get him released. Nothing has worked and he's still in prison, thank goodness. 

WHY?  Why would law enforcement and DA fight so hard for an obviously guilty man???? Boggles the mind. 

[Guest]

Did anyone watch the memorial day marathon yesterday? I'm currently about five hours in, but Murder Loves Company (a new show) and Murder Chose Me had breathtakingly, unfathomably stupid motives. I can't imagine being murdered by not even your roommate, but your roommate's mother because you had the audacity to ask her to be quiet during a movie. And being fatally bodyslammed because you lied about who paid for some daiquiris has to be hands down the dumbest inciting incident for murder I've ever heard, and it's hard to top the Vegetable Enforcer from last week. I can't believe the rest of the family didn't get charged for leaving the guy in bed for 24 hours with a broken neck when he probably would have been able to otherwise live a full life if he had received medical attention sooner. Absolute garbage people.

Re: the girl murdered by her roommate's couch surfing mom, every story is of course tragic and awful, but seeing how many photos she had taken with her clearly beloved family dog and then to see that dog still alive in the present, very elderly with his little grey muzzle, staring at the pictures of the two of them together on the wall...man, that made me choked up.  

[walnutqueen]

36 minutes ago, SnarkEnthusiast said:

Re: the girl murdered by her roommate's couch surfing mom, every story is of course tragic and awful, but seeing how many photos she had taken with her clearly beloved family dog and then to see that dog still alive in the present, very elderly with his little grey muzzle, staring at the pictures of the two of them together on the wall...man, that made me choked up

That got to me, too.  So sad.

[ratgirlagogo]

On 5/14/2019 at 8:49 AM, Jeeves said:

On 5/12/2019 at 9:52 AM, MissAlmond said:

Is A Crime to Remember gone forever?  I wonder if it became too expensive to produce.  Prime time shows set in the 40's/50's have been cancelled due to cost factors.  Keeping the "look" of a period can also become too difficult.  By the time The Waltons ended, Mary Ellen's hair and makeup had long moved beyond World War II and into the 70's.  Too bad if it's gone, it's one of my favorite crime shows.

I can see that ACTR would be expensive to produce. I think I commented on an episode in the first season, where in the background of an office scene you could see mini-blinds at a window. Out of focus but still obviously mini-blinds, and that wasn't a thing in the 1950's when that crime occurred. It just killed that scene for me. Which is too bad because they got everything else right for the period - clothes, desk, phone, chairs.

Also, I think it's hard to find good cases for the show. There are some "classics" like the 1950's airliner bombing and the Kitty Genovese murder that are excellent subjects for this kind of treatment. But I thought that the show focused on some cases that left me thinking, well, why did they bother with that one. 

Yeah, sometimes.  But it is still so much better than the other ID shows, especially the re-enacted ones that I do hope it's not completely dead, oops, I guess I mean cancelled.  Even though they used actors without much of a resume the performances were really superior.   I thought they also had a better quality of talking heads - surviving investigators, people who had written books on the case and often done years of research.

I can think of a lot of famous cases they never did - Silvia Likens, Betty Buckley, Diane Downs, the Taliesin massacre, Ira Einhorn, Albert Fish, Belle Gunness, Lydia Trueblood.........

[Sile]

12 hours ago, ratgirlagogo said:

Yeah, sometimes.  But it is still so much better than the other ID shows, especially the re-enacted ones that I do hope it's not completely dead, oops, I guess I mean cancelled.  Even though they used actors without much of a resume the performances were really superior.   I thought they also had a better quality of talking heads - surviving investigators, people who had written books on the case and often done years of research.

I can think of a lot of famous cases they never did - Silvia Likens, Betty Buckley, Diane Downs, the Taliesin massacre, Ira Einhorn, Albert Fish, Belle Gunness, Lydia Trueblood.........

A few that I've been waiting for are Hall-Mills, Winnie Ruth Judd and the ax murders in some town I can't remember in Ohio or Iowa that I'm pretty sure starts with a V (I always think it's Vidalia or Vilnius even though I know that's wrong).  There was a similar case locally around the turn of the century but I doubt that it's well known enough for a tv program.

Just popped into my head (and what a strange place that must be) that the ax murders were in Villisca, Iowa.

One of my favorite parts of ACTR is the music at the end and showing the photos of the real life people involved.  It's all the more poignant because they don't show any during the program so you get a picture in your head and then see how it matches up.

There used to be something similar on a program where the actors would hold up framed pictures of the person they portrayed on the episode.  Some ID show and had relatively current cases.

Edited May 30, 2019 by Sile
Remembered the ax murder town as soon as I stopped trying to remember it

[MissAlmond]

On 5/30/2019 at 4:09 PM, Sile said:

A few that I've been waiting for are Hall-Mills, Winnie Ruth Judd and the ax murders in some town I can't remember in Ohio or Iowa that I'm pretty sure starts with a V

Those are some good ones!  There's also Barbara Graham, whose case the movie I Want to Live is based on.  Graham's innocence or guilt is still debated, in spite of the movie pretty much implying she played no part in the murder.  Perhaps the ID Channel should lurk on this forum for ideas.  

ETA:  While the movie did imply Graham was totally innocent, I've read various accounts over the years and am not quite sure she 100% had no involvement.  I would love for ACTR to present both sides and discuss it later on this forum.

Edited May 31, 2019 by MissAlmond

[Jordan61]

On 5/15/2019 at 8:16 AM, geekgirl921 said:

I forgot to post this earlier so I guess I am not as annoyed as I was but it really annoys me when ID slaps a new name on an old show and then it comes up as new on my guide. There were two on this weekend!

And speaking of this, I see Fatal Vows is now Mid-Life Murder.

[sskrill]

I've mentioned it before, but I still can't get with these people who continually deny their loved one is a murderer.  

"My mama is just a nice person.  I don't care if you have dash cam footage of the police pulling up on her standing over the body, soaked in blood, with the knife in her hand ... I just know she couldn't have done this."

"Just because my sister said they were there, and my mother knew where the gun was located (at the bottom of a pond) doesn't mean my mom had anything to do with this."

"Obviously my 75 year old 98 lb stepgrandmother physically attacked my 40 year old mother ... what else could she have done except choke her to death and bury her in the forrest?  What other options are there?" 

You can still love your family member *and* accept they did something horrible.

[KellsBells]

Did anyone watch the Chris Watts special on HLN? I taped it and just sort of listened to it this morning. Glanced up at the very end and noticed that two of the producers were David Pecker and a Kushner. Ugh. 

[funky-rat]

I opted out of that one.  I have a tough time where people kill innocent kids, pregnant women, and pets.  I struggled with the stuff on Lacey Peterson.

[geekgirl921]

On 5/31/2019 at 7:37 PM, Jordan61 said:

And speaking of this, I see Fatal Vows is now Mid-Life Murder.

Oh, it's a few different things. I can't remember what they called it but it was one of the shows from that weekend that I watched that had a new name on it and was listed as new!

[auntjess]

2 hours ago, geekgirl921 said:

On 5/31/2019 at 10:37 PM, Jordan61 said:

And speaking of this, I see Fatal Vows is now Mid-Life Murder.

Oh, it's a few different things. I can't remember what they called it but it was one of the shows from that weekend that I watched that had a new name on it and was listed as new!

How about Menopause for Murder?

[Annber03]

3 hours ago, KellsBells said:

Did anyone watch the Chris Watts special on HLN? I taped it and just sort of listened to it this morning. Glanced up at the very end and noticed that two of the producers were David Pecker and a Kushner. Ugh. 

Didn't see the one on HLN, but they had a show about that case on the ID Channel last night and I caught that. I still can't get over him putting his kids in those oil rigs. What a scumbag. I sad in another discussion elsewhere about that case once that I think his punishment should be to spend the rest of his life sitting in an oil rig. 

On a lighter note, we recently got the Justice Channel here and I see they're showing old stuff like "Dominick Dunne's Power, Privilege, and Justice" and "City Confidential" and the like. I know what I'll be watching when I have free afternoons :D. 

[funky-rat]

38 minutes ago, Annber03 said:

On a lighter note, we recently got the Justice Channel here and I see they're showing old stuff like "Dominick Dunne's Power, Privilege, and Justice" and "City Confidential" and the like. I know what I'll be watching when I have free afternoons :D. 

City Confidential is how I learned why my time spent at the first college I attended was full of drive by shootings, car bombs, and arson fires (prompting me to eventually move back home and transfer schools).  The mafia really does exist in areas other than New York, and they do have turf wars (and try to make it look like random acts of crime).  Scary stuff.

[SunnyBeBe]

I actually watched a special on the Rebecca Zahau murder/suicide issue over the weekend.  There are a couple currently running.  This one was REALLY informative.  Once AGAIN, I learned more about this case.  It focused a lot of what the private experts the PLaintiff's team found when they prepared the case for Civil court in the case of wrongful death against the deceased child's uncle, who was staying in the guest house the night of the death.  It really showcased all the evidence that law enforcement, ignored or misinterpreted in the so called criminal investigation.  (Which is a joke.)  

I still wonder who killed the young boy and why, though. 

https://www.investigationdiscovery.com/crimefeed/id-shows/rebecca-zahau-an-id-murder-mystery-2-bodies-in-2-days

Edited June 3, 2019 by SunnyBeBe