The Books vs. The Show: Comparisons, Speculation, and Snark

[peacefrog]

This is concerning the show down the road, if it goes a 3rd season, but I wonder if they will do the Frank/Claire stones scene again only this time with Jamie and Claire. Maybe even in the 2nd season before she knows he's alive. That would certainly pack an emotional punch.

[Athena]

Please avoid talking about fans or other fandoms in a negative way. You can make your negative, indifferent, and positive opinions here without referring to anyone else or another group. Thank you. 

[Nidratime]

This is concerning the show down the road, if it goes a 3rd season, but I wonder if they will do the Frank/Claire stones scene again only this time with Jamie and Claire. Maybe even in the 2nd season before she knows he's alive. That would certainly pack an emotional punch.

 

Actually, that would be very cool. I honestly can't remember if anything like that ever happened in the books.

[TidalCreek]

As a casual Once Upon a Time fan, I have no problem with the Frozen characters, but as a kindergarten teacher I will throw something at my TV if I hear That Song. Lol.

 

 

LOL! As a grandmother, I'm right there with you. (When my girls were small, it was The Little Mermaid. "Look at this stuff/isn't it neat/wouldn't you think/my collection's complete" ...)

 

Back to the thread:

 

Something has always bothered me, in the book and the show: Couldn't she have just told someone early on (when they were asking for details of who she was, where she was from, etc.) that she was scared away by a group of soldiers and that she'd left all her belongings, including a huge treasure, back at the stones. Then when they take her there, she could be all, "See ya!" and zip back through to 1945.

 

Of course I see the downside: It would make for a very short story. Sometimes logic has no place in literature. (I was bothered by the same issue in the Lord of the Rings: Why not summon the giant eagles and fly the ring to Mount Doom? Same answer: book-length story reduced to a few paragraphs.)

 

It's possible that I've given too much thought to this.

[Petunia846]

Well also, Claire doesn't really know how the stones work. Maybe she'd lure them into taking her there, run straight at the stone and have nothing happen. Then she'd be labeled some weirdo liar and get into even more trouble. Or as she said once, she could get sucked even further back into time, and that could reeeeally suck. At this point there's no easy fix because she doesn't know how it works.

[SandyToes]

 

Maybe she'd lure them into taking her there, run straight at the stone and...

Smack! Thud!  

Sorry.  Just where my brain went.

A friend and I were talking the other day about the changes from the book.  As readers, not knowing what's going to be changed keeps it interesting for us. There is still some level of suspense, because new things pop up from time to time. I loved the joint running to the stones - very effective, I thought. I do agree with post earlier that this may not have been the best way to end the first half - it did seem a little lackluster. Also can't believe it is a 6-month wait! Time for a pedicure...

[absnow54]

I thought it was an interesting change to have Claire so close to the stones without realizing it because she was so swept up in her new marriage and fun times with the clan (this of course is pre-deserter attack.) If Claire had been focused on her plan to get back to the stones, she would have noticed how close she was and probably could have gotten Jamie to take her there to show her the magic stones from the songs they had heard, instead of choosing to take a roll in the heather with him.

[MedievalGirl]

Roger. Dear sweet little Roger. I stopped the show to tell my hubby "Yes, everyone drools over Jamie but that kid grows up to be someone really interesting. Someone more like you."

I take this all way too personally don't I? :)

Edited October 2, 2014 by MedievalGirl

[Daisychain]

Kiwi said:

 

When you lay out the major plot points left to happen like you have it does worry me at how underplayed the Jamie/Claire relationship has been. I need to see some serious bonding before I would believe Claire would choose to stay in rapeville 1743. Lets hope there are a decent amount of episodes and relationship building moments before she has to choose.

I agree with the plotting/pacing problem, and I have one other problem:  My impression is that rapeville 1743 is a much more violent world than the book world.  I know part of it is the difference between a visual medium and a couple of paragraphs you can scan over as a reader.  But to me there is a difference in tone too.  E.g., in the book, when Claire and Jamie are grabbed going back to the castle during the oath-taking, Claire deals with it by yanking the guy's nose.  On the show, it looked like a more serious attack.  In the book, it's clear that when the deserter is going to rape her, Claire reaches up and circles his neck so she can stab him -- she has a plan and she, um, executes.  Onscreen, to many of us, it looks like she was raped.  Those are a couple of examples but thinking back on the series I felt like there is a steady stream of attacks and it makes me uncomfortable.  Why would she choose rapeville 1743?

 

I'm a pretty avid fan, but stopping where we did for the midseason break did leave me with a pit in my stomach (is that the right phrase)?

[WatchrTina]

I entertained myself today by re-reading book 1 beginning on the morning of the day of the attack by the Grant's right up to Jamie's appearance in the window and THAT FABULOUS LINE.  Then I forced myself to put the book down.  I want to come to the 2nd half of season one with some distance between me and the book.

 

But damn I enjoyed myself today.  I had forgotten how well the Grant attack was written.  This is one scene where (for me) the book is so much better than the show.  In the book we see Jamie and Dougal fighting back-to-back, each with a broadsword in the left hand and a dirk in the right -- handling 5 men at once.  We see Murtagh calmly checking his gun and aiming, but not firing.  Not until Dougal is wounded and he and Jamie are forced to move to a new position, one which conveniently moves them out of Murtagh's line of fire.  He shoots, he scores, and then Jamie THROWS HIS SWORD at one of the Grant's who is absolutely stunned to see it sticking out of his leg.  He pulls it out, screams, and then flees, "pursued by Jamie, moving like an avalanche." "He had succeeded in yanking the huge claymore out of the blanket roll, and  was swinging it in a murderous, two handed arc.  Backing him up came Murtagh, shouting something highly uncomplimentary in  Gaelic and brandishing both sword and reloaded pistol."

 

What a great fight scene.  And then it is followed by one of the better sex scenes in the entire series, which unfortunately the show had to skip.  Yeah, my lunch break today at work was fun.

 

But I've read as far as I'm allowed to read and I'm sure these boards are going to cool down soon so I'd just like to say how much fun I've had for the past 10 weeks sharing my anticipation for and then my appreciation of this terrific adaptation of a book we all love.  It is good time to be a word nerd.  Slàinte mhòr!

[Shorty186]

I agree with your entire post, Tina, but regarding 

 

 

then it is followed by one of the better sex scenes in the entire series, which unfortunately the show had to skip.

 

Did you find someplace where Ron or the writers explained why they skipped it, or do you mean you think it was left out due to time? Because if there was a reasoning, I would love to know it, as I was really pissed off by its exclusion.

 

 

 

 

 

[NoNeinNyet]

Because if there was a reasoning, I would love to know it, as I was really pissed off by its exclusion.

 

Especially since it would give context to the rough makeup sex at Leoch. If you've already seen Jamie and Claire have passionate, frantic sex that's consensual then you have context for it to happen again.

[WatchrTina]

 

Did you find someplace where Ron or the writers explained why they skipped it

No I didn't.  I just assumed there was no time for it and so we had to settle for canoodling by the fire and intense hand-holding.  Pity that.

 

 

Especially since it would give context to the rough makeup sex at Leoch. If you've already seen Jamie and Claire have passionate, frantic sex that's consensual then you have context for it to happen again.

 

Well we see a wee bit of that when Jamie's says he is going to give Claire what she deserves for laughing at him, followed by some aggressive and mutually enjoyed sexytimes.  That  meadow-sex was actually a very sexy / healthy sex scene -- right up until it turned into attempted rape and murder.  Which does suck a lot of the enjoyment out of the re-watch.

[peacefrog]

I finally listened to Ron's podcast and the most interesting thing to me was him mentioning that Roger might have heard Mrs Graham telling Frank about Craigh Na Dun. He said that the writers have the option now to use it for later that he has that info. It doesn't really change anything but it just never crossed my mind that he could have.

[nodorothyparker]

The staging of the Grant fight really was kind of a letdown for all the reasons WatchrTina already laid out.  It's one of my favorites in the book because it's one where you can clearly see Dougal as Jamie's foster father and get a sense of how he shaped him into the fighting man he is now.  Plus all the visuals of the fighting, he throws a SWORD.  How can you not love that?  I know the show has chosen to build up the animosity between Dougal and Jamie over clan leadership and Claire for plot purposes, some of which I've liked and some of which has felt really hammy, but as a result they've lost the reality in the book that Jamie was the closest thing he had had to a son up to this point and Dougal did have some real affection for him and did think quite a lot of him when he wasn't trying to use him or kill him.

 

It just strikes me as an odd choice given how much handwringing there has been over the show's ability to attract and hold male viewers.  One of my non book reader husband's complaints has been that for guys carrying a lot of hardware they don't seem to use it very much (his reasoning being that if you see guys armed with swords you should be able to count on a decent fight every so often or what's the point) and that they've never really shown us why these guys were considered such fearsome fighters that the English would expound so much energy on them.  So going on the book description I had built up the Grant fight to him.  Needless to say, he was underwhelmed.

[bluebonnet]

I finally listened to Ron's podcast and the most interesting thing to me was him mentioning that Roger might have heard Mrs Graham telling Frank about Craigh Na Dun. He said that the writers have the option now to use it for later that he has that info. It doesn't really change anything but it just never crossed my mind that he could have.

That's a really good adjustment to Roger.  I didn't think I could bear him repeating "blessed are those are they who have not seen and have believed" on screen.  He'll have Mrs. Graham's stories and then hearing about Claire possibly having disappeared through the rocks plus maybe being around when Claire returns and hearing things.  His easy belief in the stones will make good sense.  

[tcay]

There are some audition sides floating around on tumblr for the parts of Bree and Roger. I watched a bit of the Bree one, and while it's really clear the dialogue is straight from the book and not adapted, it was interesting which dialogue she was doing: it was dialogue from book 3, during their search for Jamie in historical records.

 

I don't know if that means they'll be pulling that part of the story into season two or they just thought that was better audition material, but fun speculation either way.

 

Link: 

Edited October 7, 2014 by Athena
Spoiler tags

[Nidratime]

I think this one for Bree is better:

 

 

And, I'm not fond of either of the ones for Roger I saw.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Athena
Spoiler tags

[lianau]

I haven't watched them but I think book 3 Brianna is better for auditioning . She's more of a regular person there and not just a tourist tagging along with  her mothers strange history project or pissed off and angry .

[Nidratime]

That's ironic! In the first book, it was Claire who tagged along on Frank's strange history project! ;-)

[aemom]

I think this one for Bree is better:

 

 

 http://vimeo.com/106882700 

 

I agree.  The first one was unwatchable in my opinion.

Edited October 7, 2014 by Athena
Spoiler tags

[Athena]

Hi everyone! While technically the videos linked do not reveal plot details that we don't already know about, they are technically TV spoilers because they have not been released by The Powers That Be (Starz, RDM, Herself, etc.). To be safe, I have put them under spoiler tags. Thank you! 

[Nidratime]

Thank you, Athena, I was wondering about that and thought maybe we should move them to the spoiler thread, but since these are auditions, you can never be sure if the actual audition scene will end up in the show!

[Tif]

They need to keep looking for Brianna. I wasn't feeling it in either of the two videos.

[ohhellsyeah]

I think the casting for Brianna is really important. She seems to be a character that a lot of people dislike. Getting a really likable (and talented) actress might go a long way towards winning people over. Look at the number of people who disliked book Frank but are enjoying TV Frank. Part of it is the writing, but I think having Tobias Menzies in the part has a lot to do with.

And I agree that the first actress was pretty terrible. I think the casting on this show has been great so far and am confident they will find the right actress.

[mybabyaidan]

I have no love for the 2nd actress, admittedly, but she is definitely NOT tall enough.  

[tcay]

Thanks for adding the spoiler tags, Athena. I wasn't quite sure since the videos included both book spoilers and tv spoilers!

[marinite]

Thanks for the Brianna links.  If you can link the Roger ones, I will love you forevah ! 

[Nidratime]

Here are a couple more "Bree" videos:

 

 

 

The Roger ones are now password protected, but I didn't care for them anyway.

[Tif]

Out of the 4, I like Bella Dayne the best so far. :-)

[ohhellsyeah]

I agree with Tif. She is way more subtle which IMHO is a good thing. Some of those other actresses really needed to tone it down.

I guess I'm less worried about the Roger casting. He is (again in my opinion) a much more likeable character. Just find someone attractive who is at least a decent actor and it should be fine.

[NoNeinNyet]

I wish Molly Quinn was taller. Alas, she's only 5'4".

[Glaze Crazy]

So, will they go with an actress who looks exceptionally like Sam/Jamie but might not have the height?  I ask because a good actress can pull off the character but not have that striking physical look that makes it obvious she could be his daughter.  The same will go for adult William, should they get to that point.  I'm glad I'm not the casting person.  Just watching the 4 versions of the same scene and I understand all the snark from Ron & Co about the "stop,help,he's going over" scene that was used for the many Jamie/Claire tryouts.

[absnow54]

I'm not sure if the height thing will really be a factor in the show verse. While Sam is approximately book-Jamie's height, Cait and Tobias are several inches taller than their book versions, so there isn't much contrast there. I think so long as they cast a red head (or, you know, someone with access to hair dye) Brianna's paternity will be pretty obvious. The casting department has been phenomenal at finding actors who have an easy natural chemistry, so I don't mind them cutting or twisting some of the book descriptions if it means we get an actress who can effortlessly fade into her character the way Sam and Cait seem to.

[Keeta]

What absnow54 said. I would rather have the best actor/person for the role even if they are shorter than described in the book. If we can get it all, great, but if not, the acting talent is paramount.

[WatchrTina]

I'm six feet tall and I want Bree to be tall too.  I'm sure they didn't audition anyone for the Jamie role who was under six foot (we fans would have mutinied over a short Jamie) and I hope they won't consider anyone for the Bree role who is under 5'10" (one inch taller than Cait.)  But I agree -- acting skills are paramount.  Hair they can dye. 

 

And they can get around the actress looking like Jamie by having her look like Ellen.  They can paint the portrait at Lallybroch after the role is cast and slip a shot of it into the Lallybroch episodes of season one if there is time.  Or they can just avoid showing us the portrait of Ellen at Lallybroch in season 1 and instead reveal the portrait in season 2 -- Claire shows it to Bree at the national gallery and then the same portrait is hanging in Lallybroch when Bree goes there.  

 

With William, they will have a tougher row to hoe, but they have plenty of time to figure it out.  And the show will be so huge by then any tall young actor with a passing resemblance to Sam will be submitting his photos wearing a red wig and a kilt.

Edited October 9, 2014 by WatchrTina

[Nidratime]

Diana Gabaldon has responded to fans questions and concerns about episode 8 as opposed to what happens in the book. Long post on Facebook:

 

https://www.facebook.com/AuthorDianaGabaldon/photos/a.287216804654496.69164.175126332530211/791100807599424/?type=1&fref=nf

[Glaze Crazy]

I'm 100% on the side of acting ability and hair dye vs. doppelganger with mediocre acting skill, I was just thinking out loud, so to speak.  I trust the casting department to get it right.  They've done pretty good so far.  

 

Is is common for testing videos to show up these days?  I've never seen anything like it except after a big or classic movie is released on DVD.  The only one that comes to mind is the tests for Star Wars and I think it's only the actual actors that got the roles.

[absnow54]

I believe actors/agents post the videos themselves to help build buzz/fan support. Not sure how that effects their chances, but I'm sure it has a negative impact. 

[mybabyaidan]

Anyone hear anything about casting wee Fergus? 

[lianau]

Nothing about Fergus yet but I want to know how they handle him. Fergus aka Claudel is clearly French. So what's better, taking an English speaking actor and have him speak French or looking for a bilingual kid?

 

 

I was looking at my bilangual and thought it was off. I needed ohhellsyeah's post below to see why.

[ohhellsyeah]

Bilingual kid. I don't know about others, but I can pick out a non-French speaker like a sore thumb.

[peacefrog]

I wonder how many Ferguses they will cast, 2 or 3? 1 for season 2, maybe he will age enough for the beginning of season 3 then an older one. His age is a pain for the timeline.

[mybabyaidan]

If they cast someone in their mid teens (like 13-15) instead of 10, they can just use them for 2 and part of 3 (if they do the cave/Dunbonnet stuff which I assume they will given the reels for Brianna) and then cast a new person for the rest of 3. 

[ohhellsyeah]

I just finished the fourth book and I'm not sure I want to continue. I remember the fifth book being incredibly boring. And then there's the spoilers I've read for books 6-8. Yikes.

Is anyone a fan of those books?

[Petunia846]

Not of five, it's the worst in my opinion, but I am definitely a fan of the later ones. I like them a lot in fact.

[nodorothyparker]

Five is kind of slow.  It's a classic middle of the series book just trying to move things along from point A to point B.  I both really like and really don't like six. 

 

I did really like the last two, bloated as they were.  I think I may be something of a rarity though in that I sort of enjoyed all of William's growing pains and petulance and that I actually liked the Claire-Lord John storyline.  It pumped a lot of new life into what had settled into a rather repetitive story of soulmates with a side of unrequited too good to be true longing on the side.

Edited October 11, 2014 by nodorothyparker

[Keeta]

I liked 7 and 8 better than 5 and 6, as I recall. They're pretty much all bloated at this point, but while certain things annoyed or bored me in the last two, there was a lot that I enjoyed as well (Young Ian's storyline, most of what happens with Roger and Bree in book 8...). There were still flashes of that same kind of plot & character brilliance that hooked me in the early books.

[tcay]

I will admit to skimming certain POV chapters unless there's a mention of Claire/Jamie in them.  

 

I can't even remember what the narrative thrust of 5 is. I do remember there being a very good sex scene at River Run in it, but that's about it... 

 

6 is like the trials and tribulations of Claire. It's hard reading but I liked it. I really liked 8, but maybe that was because characters were generally converging? We were treated to a lot of new character pairings/interactions, which is always fun. 

[peacefrog]

This won't help but I love books 5,6 and 8.:)

6 was my favorite of the whole series. Then again I'm one who also likes FC!