S01.E10: Mr. Berserk

[shapeshifter]

http://previously.tv/izombie/max-ragergate/

Best new word of the day: "villiansplains"

[MisterGlass]

Good word!

 

 

I am undecided as to whether Sebastian was already a zombie but at the very least he knew that Liv was a zombie (based on his "You look a little pale" comment in the garage), so if he hadn't already been turned then it's possible that he deliberately licked her blood to become a zombie.

I think Sebastian was just Max Rager's hired psycho, and not aware of zombies.  On the boat, he commented that he was surpirsed Liv was alive, because he would have sworn she had no heartbeat.

[Ubiquitous]

Whoops, you're right. At group, Major said, "And when I shot him, his eyes, they turned— It doesn't matter."

Yeah, that's what I thought Major said in group therapy, but at the time I thought he stopped at "eyes" and wondered how the other guy knew about "red eyes" and whatever detail he shared with Major.

 

ETA: Fixed wonky double-posting.

Edited May 21, 2015 by Ubiquitous

[Ubiquitous]

Good word!

 

I think Sebastian was just Max Rager's hired psycho, and not aware of zombies.  On the boat, he commented that he was surpirsed Liv was alive, because he would have sworn she had no heartbeat.

Didn't he seem to have an "aha!" moment on the boat?

[blugirlami21]

I don't think Sebastian knew anything about zombies. Why would he? I think he would have picked a better victim if that was the case and he seemed surprised at how Liv turned the tables on him.

Liv got on my nerves in this episode. I understand that she was grieving but she's a shitty friend. She knew Lowell for all of a month but Major who she dated for two years, who's supposedly her best friend can't be given the time of day while he is clearly in crisis?

I also feel like he's way too nice to Liv. I couldn't believe her when she asked him to rub her back like he used to when they were together.

She claims to see Blaine for the threat he really is but she still really thinks that he's just going to let Major continue to live knowing what he knows? Not likely.

Edited May 21, 2015 by blugirlami21

[editorgrrl]

Liv got on my nerves in this episode. I understand that she was grieving but she's a shitty friend. She knew Lowell for all of a month but Major who she dated for two years, who's supposedly her best friend can't be given the time of day while he is clearly in crisis?

 

We've seen Liv ignore an urgent call from Major just to spend time with Lowell. So her behavior this episode was entirely in character.

 

I like when characters aren't perfect Mary Sues. I also liked that Major moved on after Liv dumped him.

[Julia]

I don't think Sebastian knew anything about zombies. Why would he? I think he would have picked a better victim if that was the case and he seemed surprised at how Liv turned the tables on him.

 

I think Sebastian's healthy respect for the concept of Zombie got drowned by his disrespect for women. Hate it when that happens.

 

I'm with you on Liv/Major, but Liv is very new to living a complicated life. She's not going to be good at it yet. 

Edited May 21, 2015 by Julia

[shapeshifter]

I don't think Sebastian knew anything about zombies. Why would he? I think he would have picked a better victim if that was the case and he seemed surprised at how Liv turned the tables on him...

Yeah, they left his prior knowledge very ambiguous--whether accidentally or on purpose.

In hindsight, his "my what pale skin you have" is just an update on Little Red Riding Hood saying to the Wolf disguised as Granny, "Why, Granny! What big teeth you have!"

[blugirlami21]

I know Liv is a bad friend.  She ignored a call from Peyton as well if I recall correctly, I just hate it lol .  I want her to start paying attention to the friends and family she has left and start taking this zombie crisis a little more seriously.  It doesn't just affect her anymore.  I wish we had more time with human Liv to see what she was like before she became a zombie.

[jhlipton]

Liv is really crap at protecting people.  First Lowell, then Adele.  Liv, it's a woman's changing room and you're a woman -- there was no reason to stay outside and let her escape to her death.  (I guess Adele was "lucky", being killed by a punch to the brain and being already dead before being sent to the bottom of the lake...But, jeez, Adele, you know Max Rager is out to get you -- maybe use a little caution!)  I was upset that the show killed her that quick and that easy.

 

Did Liv get the flash drive off Sebastian before heaving him over.  I didn't see it, In "Full Zombie Mode", she may have not thought to get it.

 

ETA, from the recap:

HOW IS DEBATE CLUB EVEN A SIGNIFICANT THING.

 

From what I've read, it's a huge part of placement and advancement in Law School.

 

Clive confuses a hypothesis with a theory

 

I hope he's not a Creationist!  LOL

Edited May 21, 2015 by jhlipton

[AudienceofOne]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've established it's a scratch that transmits zombism, not that blood does. I don't see why Liv would have known that him licking her blood would transmit the illness.

 

The thing that actually annoyed me far more is the idea that a punch knocked her out so much that she was unconscious for several hours and then completely woozy for several minutes once she woke up. I get that he "killed her" during that time but that shouldn't have slowed her down much.

Edited May 22, 2015 by AudienceofOne

[jhlipton]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've established it's a scratch that transmits zombism, not that blood does. I don't see why Liv would have known that him licking her blood would transmit the illness.

 

The thing that actually annoyed me far more is the idea that a punch knocked her out so much that she was unconscious for several hours and then completely woozy for several minutes once she woke up. I get that he "killed her" during that time but that shouldn't have slowed her down much.

 

I don't think he hit Liv (or Adele for that matter) as much with brass knuckles as he did with PLOT!!! knuckles!

[AudienceofOne]

I don't think he hit Liv (or Adele for that matter) as much with brass knuckles as he did with PLOT!!! knuckles!

 

 

Yeah those plot shots can be knockouts.

 

But compared to most other shows on at the moment, I'll take this one.

[MisterGlass]

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but we've established it's a scratch that transmits zombism, not that blood does.

 

We know that Blaine scratches people to infect them, and Ravi managed not to be infected by a bite from zombie rat.  Since it can be transmitted between people by a scratch it's likely that any exposure to blood would have the same outcome.  Now if the virus (or other trigger) manages to becomes airborne, things will be dicey.

[jhlipton]

We know that Blaine scratches people to infect them, and Ravi managed not to be infected by a bite from zombie rat.  Since it can be transmitted between people by a scratch it's likely that any exposure to blood would have the same outcome.  

 

Not necessarily.  HIV/AIDS is passed body fluid to body fluid -- touching the blood of someone with AIDS won't give you AIDS unless you have an open wound or the like. The scratch may be needed to get the MRU virus into the bloodstream.

[editorgrrl]

Not necessarily. HIV/AIDS is passed body fluid to body fluid -- touching the blood of someone with AIDS won't give you AIDS unless you have an open wound or the like. The scratch may be needed to get the MRU virus into the bloodstream.

Licking blood is different than touching it—and it's a TV show about zombies which is based on a comic book.

[jhlipton]

Licking blood is different than touching it—and it's a TV show about zombies which is based on a comic book.

 

This is true, so I think that, unless we're told, we are making more or less probable guesses.  I was responding to:

any exposure to blood would have the same outcome

Which is not the same as licking.

[CinnamonCat]

Not that this has much to do with the topic, but I used to volunteer in an HIV/AIDS support centre, and our boss once told us that while it's possible to get HIV through oral sex, it almost never happens, because "Who the fuck gives head with an open wound in their mouth?!" So, yeah. Life lesson acquired.

 

I think that no one is sure how the zombie virus is transferred in-show either. Blaine knew that scratching worked because that's how he turned Liv. But besides that, no one knows for sure, and it's way too dangerous to experiment.

[shapeshifter]

Not that this has much to do with the topic, but I used to volunteer in an HIV/AIDS support centre, and our boss once told us that while it's possible to get HIV through oral sex, it almost never happens, because "Who the fuck gives head with an open wound in their mouth?!"...

Heh. When the bad guy put Liv's blood in his mouth, I thought: Who the bleep puts someone's blood in their mouth in a post-ignorance-of-HIV world?

Back in the Stone Age, when I was a kid, we used to prick our fingers and put them together to become "blood sisters." I bet kids know better than to do that anymore.

[Sakura12]

Heh. When the bad guy put Liv's blood in his mouth, I thought: Who the bleep puts someone's blood in their mouth in a post-ignorance-of-HIV world?

 

Especially since Liv looks sickly. 

 

I could see why Liv wouldn't think ingesting blood would turn a zombie. On the Walking Dead they are always getting blood on their faces and none of them turn from that. 

[jhlipton]

Not that this has much to do with the topic, but I used to volunteer in an HIV/AIDS support centre, and our boss once told us that while it's possible to get HIV through oral sex, it almost never happens, because "Who the fuck gives head with an open wound in their mouth?!" So, yeah. Life lesson acquired.

 

I replied in Small Talk.

[niklj]

Nothing on Ravi and the roommate ... wonder if that will be dropped. Also wondering if an energy drink will be the ultimate cause of zombieism???

I was wondering about Peyton as well--does she even exist anymore? Not even a mention about her in a few episodes.

 

Clive is such a party-pooper, I feel all the energy deflate whenever he's on screen.

[shapeshifter]

...Clive is such a party-pooper, I feel all the energy deflate whenever he's on screen.

Mileage varies, but I adore his manner of speaking, raspy voice and all. And I was really worried that he was going to eat a bite of Liv's "shrimp" and possibly get a prion disease, but he just delighted in the aroma.

[Jazzy24]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about Lowell and Lowell/Liv cause I dont.

[twoods]

Great, anther crazy zombie out there now. I can't believe that Liv would rather Major waste his money on a psych facility instead of tell him the truth. I know a big part is because she's a zombie, but still.

Still pissed that Lowell is dead. Hope they revisit Ravi and Peyton instead of dropping it like they have so far.

[editorgrrl]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about Lowell and Lowell/Liv cause I dont.

 

Nope. The only thing I liked about them was that their shipper name is Livwell. And that Lowell's British—I'm shallow like that.

[Chris Gains]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about Lowell and Lowell/Liv cause I dont.

No you are not. He was just some asshole with a guitar and accent. A very shallow character, but he had several female posters swooning over him. Figures.

[Julia]

Am I the only one who doesn't care about Lowell and Lowell/Liv cause I dont.

Not everyone does. I think a lot of the enthusiasm for him came out of the actor being popular from earlier roles. With a very rare exception, I don't think anyone felt too strongly about it one way or the other.

[shapeshifter]

[Lowel] was just some asshole with a guitar and accent. A very shallow character, but he had several female posters swooning over him. Figures.

But if Liv (the character) was posting on this board, I bet she'd sob, "But he was my asshole, and I loved him!"

[theatremouse]

But if Liv (the character) was posting on this board, I bet she'd sob, "But he was my asshole, and I loved him!"

Meh, I have a feeling she'd be more like "he was my asshole and I got him killed and feel surprisingly shitty about it considering my lack of other feelings for the past six months."

[Cranberry]

No you are not. He was just some asshole with a guitar and accent. A very shallow character, but he had several female posters swooning over him. Figures.

 

I've already told you this once, but stop making derogatory comments about "female posters." Thanks.

[twoods]

No you are not. He was just some asshole with a guitar and accent. A very shallow character, but he had several female posters swooning over him. Figures.

Another rude comment about females? What is your problem? This is a board where we come to talk about what we like and dislike- if you have an issue with it, move on instead of being rude about it.

[CinnamonCat]

Oooh, me tender womanly loins tingle and itch after them wickedly charming, yet secretly not nice (gasp!) men! Whatever will poor, shallow, confused me do?!

[Chris Gains]

But if Liv (the character) was posting on this board, I bet she'd sob, "But he was my asshole, and I loved him!"

Yes.  Actions speak so much louder than words. 

[CinnamonCat]

I'm sorry, but were any men here talking about how haaaauuuwwwt Lowell was.  If so, please let me know.  Thanks. 

 

Newsflash: the majority of TV characters are attractive, simply because they're played by attractive people. The viewers are invited by shows to appreciate that. That does not mean that viewers, regardless of their gender, sex, sexuality, political affiliation or any other aspect of their personality, suddenly become incapable of judging the characters' other qualities.

Not all users here have their gender specified. Furthermore, the majority of the posters here are, IMO, female -- this is, after all, a show targeted at women -- so I'd say that, proportionally, there are fewer women here acknowledging Bradley James's attractiveness than there are male posters acknowledging, say, Emilia Clarke's attractiveness on a Game of Thrones forum.

Lastly, are we going to pretend there were no comments on Rose McIver's appearance, both on show and off? Oh, right. Females are to be ogled and accept it as a compliment. Right.

[FurryFury]

this is, after all, a show targeted at women

 

I'm not sure. Its male and female young demos are almost the same. I don't think this show targets any gender specifically. I'd say these boards simply have more female posters in general.

 

As for "shallow females", I wanted to comment about it yesterday but decided to pass. Good to see others aren't as conflict-averse as me. This is just disgusting. This is a topic for discussing the show, not discussing its fans - and especially not for judging them.

[Julia]

For no particular reason I feel the need to point out that the ignore function may operate less efficiently at preventing derailment if people quote the posts one may be ignoring in their responses :)

I've found Bradley James likable over the five years that I watched him in his previous series, and he's clearly not difficult to look at. I don't doubt that predisposed me to enjoy Lowell. I suspect some form of that reaction may have played an equal part in casting the actors who play the rest of the roles, including the women, because this is a television show.

Edited May 27, 2015 by Julia

[CinnamonCat]

I'm not sure. Its male and female young demos are almost the same. I don't think this show targets any gender specifically. I'd say these boards simply have more female posters in general.

 

From what I've read, the CW basically came to Rob Thomas and asked him to make them female-led show, because they wanted, among other things, better results in the female demo. That's where my comment was coming from.

[FurryFury]

The CW wanting a show with better female demo? You must be joking!

 

//Seriously, they're pushing the comics stuff hard, and their best-rated show is the one that treats female characters like it's the 50s. iZombie gets,like, 0.6 females vs 0.5 males share (18-34 or 18-49, don't remember), so it doesn't seem to skew one way or the other. And the way it's written also seems pretty balanced, overall.

Edited May 27, 2015 by FurryFury

[CinnamonCat]

Well, I'm not talking about actual results here, but about their intentions. They basically wanted another Buffy  or Veronica Mars... But, like, with ratings!

[jhlipton]

Male here -- I wouldn't call Lowell hawwwwt, but I liked him. I thought he was fun and was sad when [a] Blaine killed him and it was certain he was DEAD-dead.
 

their best-rated show is the one that treats female characters like it's the 50s.

Which show is that? (unless it's Reign and you're talking about the 1550's. LOL

Edited May 28, 2015 by jhlipton

[Sakura12]

Which show is that? (unless it's Reign and you're talking about the 1550's. LOL

 

 

The Flash. On that show the women are nothing more than sounding boards for the menfolk. Even though they are both smart women and one of them is a Doctor. 

[shapeshifter]

The Flash. On that show the women are nothing more than sounding boards for the menfolk. Even though they are both smart women and one of them is a Doctor.

I caught a few minutes of a The Flash rerun before the last iZombie episode and couldn't remember exactly why I stopped watching The Flash. Maybe that was it.

[Free]

Well, I'm not talking about actual results here, but about their intentions. They basically wanted another Buffy  or Veronica Mars... But, like, with ratings!

 

Well it is Rob Thomas and this show does feel very VM-ish, but ITA.  Unless you're a big time comic book superhero like Arrow or Flash or maybe the Legends of Tomorrow coming up, they're not going to get it elsewhere unless they somehow get themselves a surprise hit.

Edited May 28, 2015 by Free

[aradia22]

 

I'm guessing Major will find out soon ... it's cruel at this point and he has to read all the signs, no matter how crazy it may seem. A zombie problem, indeed.

This is like the Grimm's partner on Grimm (I don't actually watch so I don't know their names that well) cranked up to 11. They've done a pretty good job on the development of Major's character even if it has been a little extreme at times (breaking into the car) for the sake of excitement. Liv's rationalization of not telling Major the truth is not making her any more likable after last episode's getting Lowell killed issue.

 

Nothing on Ravi and the roommate ... wonder if that will be dropped.

Good point. Is Aly Michalka working on something else? They use her character so rarely.

[aradia22]

 

That was a pretty sad episode, but I liked the case. The CEO (or whatever he was, the boss guy) was appropriately smarmy and eccentric. I'm looking forward to more of him and I'm ready to learn if Max Rager created zombies on purpose.

If they're going to drag the Max Rager thing out, casting Steven Weber was an excellent move.

 

I wish we had more time with human Liv to see what she was like before she became a zombie.

Well, we opened in the hospital in the pilot showing that she's OK with shirking authority if it means acting decisively for the greater good. She also seemed to have a bit of an issue connecting with the girl who invited her to a party so maybe not being a great friend is a normal Liv trait. Who knows?

 

Back in the Stone Age, when I was a kid, we used to prick our fingers and put them together to become "blood sisters." I bet kids know better than to do that anymore.

I don't know. It amazes me to hear what kids are doing sometimes. Kylie Jenner lip challenge? I vaguely remember something about fire. I know the media is blowing it out of proportion but that anyone is doing these things is mindboggling.

 

No you are not. He was just some asshole with a guitar and accent. A very shallow character, but he had several female posters swooning over him. Figures.

I think you're confusing shallow with perfect, at least in my case. I liked him because he was perfect. Shallow is a pretty face with little personality. Perfect boyfriend syndrome is an affliction that befalls fictional characters when they want you to like them.

[aradia22]

I don't think licking the blood had anything to do with him wanting to turn her into a zombie. I think it was to go along with the 'this guys enjoys being an assassin' a little too much thing. To go along with the laughing while happily going about getting rid of a body and lying beside her waiting for her to wake up like a creeper. He was relatively attractive and Adele already made an American Psycho reference so I feel like they were going for a Patrick Bateman vibe. There was a strange sociopath trying to have a relationship with his victim thing going on as he was talking to her at the end.

 

I did like that the writers didn't have Liv completely absolve herself of blame for Lowell's death. It's not entirely her fault but she should bear some guilt for a while.