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S01.E09: I'm With Stupid

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Younger [V]

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SonofaBiscuit

SonofaBiscuit

Loved the imagined conversation about ice.  "It's a collective noun!"  Also laughed at the dodgeball girl saying that Josh is as dumb as a box of hair.  I don't believe that he's dumb, he just seems sort of laidback and a bit unmotivated, maybe.  I feel like the show is steering us toward a Liza/Charles pairing, and that's the couple I'm rooting for.  I think that Charles would challenge Liza intellectually, and Liza would get Charles to lighten up a bit.  And his kids already love her, which would be majorly important to a single dad like him.  

  • Love 2
Julia

Julia

(edited)

I really haven't seen evidence that Josh is dumb. Liza should know not everyone loves books like she does; I don't think we saw evidence of a love of books in her ex either.

 

To your larger points, yes: I don't think Josh is dumb, I don't think not being someone who's interested in books means you're dumb, and I don't even think not enjoying the kind of Important Literature-with-a-capittle-L Liza's house seems to publish means you 're not interested in books. Not sure I can fly with your example, though, because I do believe her ex is dumb.

Edited by Julia
  • Love 1
dubbel zout

dubbel zout

(edited)

I liked that Josh called her out. I love to read—and I'm also in publishing—but it's not a deal breaker if the guy I'm with doesn't. The deal breaker for me is intellectual curiosity, and Josh seems to have that. He just explores it in different ways than Liza does.

 

We've gotten a very one-sided idea of Liza's ex. I'd like to think she wouldn't have married him in the first place if he were dumb.

 

I wish we'd seen her miss her old friends a bit. She has one person in her life she can be honest with. That can't be much fun.

Edited by dubbel zout
  • Love 4
MoreCoffeePlease

MoreCoffeePlease

Cute episode.

 

 

I feel like the show is steering us toward a Liza/Charles pairing, and that's the couple I'm rooting for.

Absolutely.  They seem to be the end-game of this story arc.

 

Diana didn't do much in this episode, but how gorgeous did she look?  I loved her facial expressions when Liza was walking around the office entranced in the book.

 

On an organizing note, why keep the "slush pile" around?  If a manuscript is a true stinker, send the rejection letter and get rid of it. I hate clutter!

 

I find it hard to believe that most of the book club did read the book.  I don't belong to one, but I honestly thought that book groups really do get together just to drink wine and talk.  :-)

  • Love 2
Julia

Julia

I don't think the ex's viewpoint was all that limited. He has a massive gambling problem. He was a dentist, which isn't a career for the stupid.

It isn't a career for the academically ungifted. There are all kinds of stupid in the world, just like there are all kinds of intelligence. I doubt Josh's SAT scores were good enough for dental school, but I'm also pretty sure there are areas where he runs rings around Liza's ex. Because Liza's ex (and I don't think this is uncommon at all in people with high IQs) is dumb as a post.

dubbel zout

dubbel zout

(edited)
On an organizing note, why keep the "slush pile" around?  If a manuscript is a true stinker, send the rejection letter and get rid of it. I hate clutter!

 

You get many more manuscripts than you have time to deal with. We used to have "slush parties" every so often, where all the editorial assistants got together and tackled the slush pile. I can't remember anything ever going further. (The stuff we got from agents wasn't that great, either.)

Edited by dubbel zout
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methodwriter85

methodwriter85

(edited)

And the bitch of the week...a 40-year old  white collar suburban housewife not knowing not knowing a what a PDF file is. Seriously? They've been around since the 1990's. They were around when people were still using floppy disks. They're not some newfangled app like Tinder or something. Do the writers not realize that Liza's peers and contemporaries would have been in college in the late 1990's? Next we'll have a funny joke about how 40-year olds just don't understand hip-hop!

 

(Okay, maybe I'm getting touchy because I'm 29 and I can just FEEL forty looming over me.)

 

In any event, I like that the whole "there are different ways of being intelligent and engaging" deal was Liza's lesson of the week...some of the biggest idiots I knew had 4.0's in college, and some of the smartest people I knew didn't finish high school.

 

I LOVED the dodgeball stuff...my sister used to be in a dodgeball league in her 20's. So where a few of her friends. That seemed to become a thing after Dodgeball came out.

 

I also really like it when the show how good Liza's instincts are with books.

Edited by methodwriter85
  • Love 3
sinkwriter

sinkwriter

 

(Okay, maybe I'm getting touchy because I'm 29 and I can just FEEL forty looming over me.)

 

As someone who is 42, I can say with confidence... it really is just a number. It's a marking of the passage of time, not a limit on what you can do with your life. I expected to be more freaked out about it when I turned 40, but it felt like any other birthday. (Probably helped that my sister surprised me with a 3-day weekend trip to NYC. We had a great time and celebrated the milestone with FUN.)

 

The old adage "you're only as old as you feel" really is true. My parents are in their early 70's and they behave "younger" than people 20 or 30+ years younger than them. They go dancing together, they go to the movies and out to dinner with their friends, they travel once in a while, they attend theatre shows and concerts, they read; essentially, they are active, engaged people and that keeps them young (or at the very least keeps them enjoying life, which is really what it's all about, I think). 

 

The only times I find myself self-conscious about my age is when I have to checkmark a box on a form, and that's only because I feel like it's so limiting. Like I'm being stereotyped into some ridiculous "YOU'RE OLD NOW" mentality, as if there's nowhere for me to go but to start planning for my death. *eyeroll*  The more I live, the more I realize the importance of paying attention to "moments" and enjoying the little details of life. My grandmother passed away a few years ago, at the age of 93, and up until a month or two before her death she was still going on monthly bus trips with a senior group, going gambling and traveling and all sorts of low-key fun activities. My long-yammering point: you're only "old" if you behave like it. You're much bigger and more awesome than the small constraints of a number.

 

I loved Josh's speech about what he's passionate about, especially how he's a visual person who likes art and is drawn to visual mediums, while Liza likes the written word. Neither of them are stupid; they just have different ways of connecting with and enjoying those little details of life.

 

I especially liked those scenes because they aren't treating Josh like he's this dumb kid who Liza will eventually dump or be dumped by as soon as he finds out her age and she'll just say, "Oh well, I knew it wasn't going to last anyway, he's way too young for me." Instead, they're treating his character with a little more depth, allowing us to see facets like these where he stands up for himself and says, "You know, that was very rude of you. I'm not a stupid person just because I didn't go to college or because I find art more interesting than writing." That makes for a stronger story being told, when it comes to the conflicts they may face when he finds out she's been lying to him.

 

It also makes this show harder for me to watch, because I know she's lying to him and not giving him the chance to choose one way or another. It's not fair, and it's only going to make things seem even bigger and more melodramatic and awful when he does finally find out. 

 

I've known guys who got freaked out as soon as they found out I was older than them. Some just can't handle the idea of dating an "older" woman. And I say that as someone who got the brush-off speech about age when I was only 28 and he was about 23. He assumed I was younger or the same age as him, and freaked out when he found out was 28 (I was too close to THIRTY for his taste, I suppose). I guess some age differences feel like too much. That, and he had a lot of preconceived notions about "older" women which were completely ridiculous. (For the record, though, we've remained very good friends. He just couldn't handle the idea-- he liked going out with girls who were younger than him.) I can't even imagine how a guy would feel if he thought you were in your 20's and then he found out you were actually 15 or more years older than him. That's a much bigger leap to take.

 

Anyway, I think Josh has a right to know. I don't think they can milk this for a long time. It would become too big, and as a viewer I might start to get frustrated with Liza instead of rooting for her like I should.

  • Love 8
dubbel zout

dubbel zout

Anyway, I think Josh has a right to know. I don't think they can milk this for a long time.

Same here. I think the show needs to deal with it somewhere, and Liza's personal life seems the better choice. For one thing, she'd lose only Josh if he freaked out. I can see him being angry at being lied at, but I think ultimately he'd be okay with the age difference. I don't think Liza will suddenly start wanting less sex or anything like that. Maybe a few more early nights.

 

At work, though, things could be much worse, and that fallout needs to be handled more carefully. You know Diana won't take the news well at all (especially if Liza and Charles are doing more than tentatively flirting), and I can see Kelsey being a total mean girl about it. 

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tennisgurl

tennisgurl

(edited)

The Dodge ball thing cracked me up. I have played Dodge ball a few times recently, and I know people in a dodge ball league. I think its fun, but its not for everybody!

 

I loved the Josh called Liza out on how judgmental she was being. Just because he is not a natural reader, or went to college, that does not mean he`s stupid. I don't think Josh comes off as stupid in particular. He`s young, but he seems like a pretty together sort of guy. Its not like he`s a slacker just sitting around playing video games all day long. He is just is a more visual person, while Liza is more of a written word follower. I don't necessarily perspective to the "why read it when you could live it" type of philosophy completely, because I love living life, while also living vicariously through books, and experiencing lives I could never lead, but I do get his sentiment. I love to read, and I have had a few "Seriously?!" reactions when people I know say they don't like reading. But I don't hold it against them. I might recommend them a few books to consider, but that's it. Reading isn't for everyone. I just think Liza is feeling self conscious about her real age. 

 

The plot of that book sounds like SUCH a mom book. It would totally fit in at my Moms library book club. So, I`m 25, so maybe I am unaware of how deep the generation gap runs, but would a 40 something housewife in 2015 really not know what a PDF is? I mean, even my 78 year old grandma uses Word and has email now. 

 

My friends and I set up a wine and cheese book club a few months ago, where we read books (not generational saga books so much, lots of sci-fi and lit crit stuff) and drink wine and cocktails and eat cheese and feel classy. Maybe I`ll recommend a dodge ball game afterwards. Bridge the generation gap! 

Edited by tennisgurl
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methodwriter85

methodwriter85

(edited)
So, I`m 25, so maybe I am unaware of how keep the generation gap runs, but would a 40 something housewife in 2015 really not know what a PDF is? I mean, even my 78 year old grandma uses Word and has email now.

 

Given that PDF files have been around since 1993, no, a 40-something housewife should know it, unless she's in a god-fearing anti-technology Polygamist sect.

 

It's as ridiculous as the plot in the 50 Shades of Grey book where Anastacia Steele somehow got through college as a 21st century student without having an email.

Edited by methodwriter85
  • Love 4
Maharincess

Maharincess

And the bitch of the week...a 40-year old white collar suburban housewife not knowing not knowing a what a PDF file is. Seriously? They've been around since the 1990's. They were around when people were still using floppy disks. They're not some newfangled app like Tinder or something. Do the writers not realize that Liza's peers and contemporaries would have been in college in the late 1990's? Next we'll have a funny joke about how 40-year olds just don't understand hip-hop!

(Okay, maybe I'm getting touchy because I'm 29 and I can just FEEL forty looming over me.)

Oh Geez Louise, at 29 you feel 40 "looming over you"?!

There's nothing wrong with somebody in their 40s not knowing what those things are. You're young, you grew up with that stuff, people of my generation didn't.

Until a few years ago I didn't even own a computer, I just didn't care about having one. I was an outdoors person, I'm a former dog groomer/trainer and preferred to spend my time with nature instead of technology. An accident forced me to become an indoor person so I got a computer.

You can call me stupid all you want but I don't know what a PDF file is and couldn't make one if my life depended on it. And I'm fine with that. I still prefer to spend my time with nature and the outdoors.

  • Love 2
Julia

Julia

(edited)

Oh Geez Louise, at 29 you feel 40 "looming over you"?!

There's nothing wrong with somebody in their 40s not knowing what those things are. You're young, you grew up with that stuff, people of my generation didn't.

WADR, that strikes me as less generational access than personal lack of access or interest. I knew all about shiny new PDFs twenty years ago because, like Liza, at the time I was working in publishing.

Edited by Julia
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methodwriter85

methodwriter85

Eh. It's kind of like that scene from When Harry Met Sally, when Sally wakes up and goes, "I'm going to be forty!" Harry replies, "In 8 years." When you're pushing 30, forty stops seeming like this very long time away in the future as opposed to when you were 21.

 

I do wonder if they'll add some thirtysomething characters, as the "balance" between the 20-somethings and the 40-somethings. How would they get portrayed?

 

As for Josh, I do think he's an adorable puppy but man I'm rooting for Olivia Benson's hot husband. Yowza.

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dcalley

dcalley

(edited)

I had to look up WADR. "With all due respect" is better left spelled out, in my opinion.

 

My TV is small and old, and I have a hard time reading the texts on this show (but not on others, though it doesn't come up that much). I gave up trying in this episode. My eyes are younger than 40, too (barely)! That I have trouble with something on this of all shows is kind of funny.

Edited by dcalley
  • Love 3
Bort

Bort

(edited)

I'm almost 40, I know what a PDF is, but I still laughed at the joke. Some people don't know what it is.

I had to look up WADR. "With all due respect" is better left spelled out, in my opinion.

I kind of love that you didn't write IMO. I hate acronyms. My work environment has acronyms for EVERYTHING and I go home wanting to just spell words out completely. PDF = Portable Document Format *contented sigh*

Edited by kariyaki
  • Love 2
ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

  • Author

One thing I totally didn't think was age-related was Liza not enjoying dodgeball. I never liked playing, even as a kid. I have even less desire to play it now that I know what pain feels like.

 

The whole college/no college thing is a common issue and I can see both sides of it. Josh was being overly sensitive ("Yes, I JUST traveled") and Liza was coming off as judgmental. Kelsey was right to just put it in black and white terms: is it a deal breaker? If it's not, then don't worry about it. If it is, well, now you know.

 

People like different things. That's totally normal. In fact, it's good for couples/friends to have different interests. It just depends on how big a deal the differences are. One of my old boyfriends loved sailing (and because he was a military brat, he was able to rent sailboats for really cheap). I get seasick really easily (and I'd rather be on the beach than on a boat). Sometimes I would take a Dramamine and go sailing with him, but it wasn't a make or break issue. Now if he had said he wanted to live on a boat and sail around the world then yes, that would have been a deal breaker for me because I can't spend every waking moment either puking over the side of a boat or passed out cold from Dramamine.

 

I think Liza had several different issues this week. First Jen put the idea into her head that Josh is dumb which made Liza start imagining that he was beyond stupid (see: ice is a collective noun). Secondly, Liza started thinking beyond the present and into the future. As she told Maggie, she knows that this relationship is going to end, and badly, and this made her think it would be sooner rather than later. Rather than focusing on the fact that she has been lying to him about her age and then coming up with lots of tiny lies to support that story, she chose to see his lack of education as the flaw that would make their relationship not work once they got past the honeymoon phase of hot sex and dodgeball. Thirdly, as she explained to both Maggie and Josh, she started sabotaging the relationship because she is happy and she is afraid that something will ruin that. Rather than take her chances on something like, I don't know, HER LIES, she chose to make it about college and reading and their differences.

 

I liked that when Liza told Kelsey what happened at Old Lady Book Club (drinking and some inappropriate kissing), Kelsey said it was just like when they hang out. Hopefully she is coming around from her "all old people are lame" assumption so that she and Liza can still be friends once the truth comes out.

 

I agree that age is just a number. How you act and what you do are more important than how old you are. I have a friend who is turning 50 this year and she knows more about the newest indie bands than my sister (who is decades younger) does. Another one of my friends is 41 and just yesterday one of her friends (who she has known for almost a year) was shocked to learn that she wasn't the same age he is (27). She doesn't dress like Diana, which helps.

  • Love 2
Jillybean

Jillybean

(edited)

Re: the PDF, for some reason this show continued to portray 40-somethings as remarkably out of touch.  Hard to believe this comes from the creator of Sex and the City which glorified 30- and 40-something women.  Of course, he had columnist Carrie not having internet/email until midway through the series, so I suppose we're supposed to handwave all this, too.  

 

I don't find Josh attractive at all.

Edited by Jillybean
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dubbel zout

dubbel zout

ice is a collective noun

 

The copy editor/word nerd in me died at that. I LOVE when shows call out grammar. It doesn't happen nearly often enough.

 

I liked that when Liza told Kelsey what happened at Old Lady Book Club (drinking and some inappropriate kissing), Kelsey said it was just like when they hang out. Hopefully she is coming around from her "all old people are lame" assumption so that she and Liza can still be friends once the truth comes out.

 

I think once Kelsey gets over being lied to, she'll come around. And she's probably thinking of "old people" in the specific context of her parents as her parents, not as individuals with their own lives and interests.

 

Re: the PDF, for some reason this show continued to portray 40-somethings as remarkably out of touch.

If Josh and Kelsey don't get all of Liza's references, why should she (and by extension, her peers) get all of theirs? I don't think the show has figured out the pop culture/social references thing yet, but by the same token, not everyone has to (or should) know everything. 

  • Love 1
apgold

apgold

I’m around Liza’s age and know what a PDF is, but I work with them all the time.  I suppose if you are a housewife who isn’t working and isn’t familiar with file types, that’s not so farfetched.  Yet, the housewives were savvy enough to start posting reviews on Goodreads (or did Liza suggest that to them?)

 

I do have to wonder what Liza and Josh have in common other than sex.  She looked really uncomfortable hanging out in his apartment with his roommates playing video games, even though she was baked (this was last week’s episode).  Reminded me of the SATC ep where Carrie was dating a 20 something where the sex was great, but she couldn’t handle everything else that comes along with it. Clearly she and Charles are more of a match.  I kind of like her with both guys, though.

 

Dodgeball is terrible and can be used as a form of bullying.  I don’t see what skills it teaches kids unlike other organized sports.

  • Love 2
MaryMitch

MaryMitch

(edited)

I’m around Liza’s age and know what a PDF is, but I work with them all the time.  I suppose if you are a housewife who isn’t working and isn’t familiar with file types, that’s not so farfetched.  Yet, the housewives were savvy enough to start posting reviews on Goodreads (or did Liza suggest that to them?)

I believe Liza suggested that to them.

I do have to wonder what Liza and Josh have in common other than sex.  She looked really uncomfortable hanging out in his apartment with his roommates playing video games, even though she was baked (this was last week’s episode).  Reminded me of the SATC ep where Carrie was dating a 20 something where the sex was great, but she couldn’t handle everything else that comes along with it. Clearly she and Charles are more of a match.  I kind of like her with both guys, though.

I don't think Liza was expecting the relationship to go anywhere and didn't think any further than "boy, he's hot and he's into me! Yay!"  Can't say I blame her!

Edited by MaryMitch
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sinkwriter

sinkwriter

(edited)

 

I do have to wonder what Liza and Josh have in common other than sex.  She looked really uncomfortable hanging out in his apartment with his roommates playing video games, even though she was baked (this was last week’s episode).  Reminded me of the SATC ep where Carrie was dating a 20 something where the sex was great, but she couldn’t handle everything else that comes along with it. Clearly she and Charles are more of a match.  I kind of like her with both guys, though.

 

Charles seems lovely and kind and well-read, but he also seems a little quiet and conservative, maybe even a touch shy. He's encouraging and respectful of Liza, both of which I think she needs after the relationship she had with her ex. But there's also a concern about Charles: they could be a picture perfect couple - husband, wife, two kids, beautiful NYC home, etc. - but they might fall into a pattern of "boring" or at the very least not very spontaneous behaviors if they're not careful.

 

Meanwhile, Josh may not have gone to college, and maybe his relationship with Liza isn't meant to go beyond the physical, but he does bring something to the table. He brings some fun, some spontaneity, some energy that Liza may not tap into very often when she's just on her own or with a guy like her ex or if she gets into a rut. Josh teaches her to lighten up, look at the world in different ways and perhaps even reminds her deep down that age numbers don't matter; it's how you choose to live your life.

 

I wonder if she needs to find a happy medium between the two guys. I think they're both interesting guys who may help enrich Liza's experience and teach her a better balance between fun and maturity (and learning that being one does not mean you can't be the other).

Edited by sinkwriter
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Jillybean

Jillybean

If Josh and Kelsey don't get all of Liza's references, why should she (and by extension, her peers) get all of theirs? I don't think the show has figured out the pop culture/social references thing yet, but by the same token, not everyone has to (or should) know everything. 

A PDF is hardly a cultural reference, though.  My parents are in their 70s and are familiar with PDFs, for Pete's sake.

Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

So the woman was simply trying to sabotage Liza and Josh by lying to Liza about him being dumb right?  At least that's how I took it.

 

I understand why I don't find Josh attractive.  His nose is so perfectly thin and straight, it looks plastic, or like a ski slope.  I find it disturbing.

 

I'm a big reader, but in my experience with men I've found it much more rare finding men that read a lot versus men that don't.  I don't care.  I can still be attracted and want to be in a relationship with them.

 

Dodgeball is terrible and can be used as a form of bullying.  I don’t see what skills it teaches kids unlike other organized sports.

 

What a cool point.  I've never been able to articulate that before.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
allonsyalice

allonsyalice

So the woman was simply trying to sabotage Liza and Josh by lying to Liza about him being dumb right?  At least that's how I took it.

 

That is how I took it too. I thought she was just jealous and wanted to break them up, which i thought was kind of a low blow. 

anyway, i hate to say it, but i do eventually see Liza and Josh breaking up. (what would be cool if they break up and she tells him the truth and then Liza, Josh and Maggie just sit around crap talking people)

Kelsey's really grown on me these past couple of weeks. idk, she's more mature than I originally took her for.

Watching those dodgeball scenes gave me horrible flashbacks to jr high gym class. never again thank you. 

  • Love 1
ElectricBoogaloo

ElectricBoogaloo

  • Author
(edited)

I am still cracking up over the best book in the slush pile (written in all caps, of course) - Cash Money Bitch: Finances Be Trippin'. Girl, do you want to get paid like a basic bitch or a billionaire bitch?

 

Dodgeball is terrible and can be used as a form of bullying.  I don’t see what skills it teaches kids unlike other organized sports.

That you only have to be faster than someone else to survive? Hide behind someone bigger than you? I'm grasping at straws because I don't see any redeeming qualities in letting kids play dodgeball. And I loved Liza pointing out that you shouldn't be able to throw a ball at someone's face using adult strength.

Edited by ElectricBoogaloo
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methodwriter85

methodwriter85

(edited)

I understand why I don't find Josh attractive.  His nose is so perfectly thin and straight, it looks plastic, or like a ski slope.  I find it disturbing.

 

See, for me, I love Nico Tortorella's nose- I always thought that little bump was an interesting quirk that made his face memorable and kept him from being an generic pretty boy.

 

I think it's got an expiration date, this deal with Josh, but I hope Liza can just appreciate it and enjoy it.

Edited by methodwriter85
KLovestoShop

KLovestoShop

I don't like when they make generalizations about age and what a person knows.  I'm in my early 60's and I know what a PDF file is, and I've known about it for a long time.  Not all us old farts are technologically challenged, and I hate it when it makes us look like we're living in the Stone Age.  Hell, I was teaching kids computer skills with one of the original Apple computers---back in the dark ages where floppy disks were the in thing.  

 

I do like me some Olivia Benson's husband, too.  He's just too cute.

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Ms Blue Jay

Ms Blue Jay

(edited)

I think for a lot of TV lovers out there, unfortunately for Peter Hermann he's more famous for being Mariska's husband than for being an actor.  Mariska has been a star in the prime-time network television world for 16 years.   Peter's also been an infrequent guest star on that show with her.

 

It was mentioned because that is what Peter is primarily known for.  Much like Hilary Duff is primarily known for being a child actor and singer, Sutton is a known Broadway star, and Debi Mazar is a 90's actor/Madonna's friend.

Edited by Ms Blue Jay
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