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S03.E21: Is The Better Part Over

ElectricBoogaloo

By ElectricBoogaloo
in Nashville [V]

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missbonnie

missbonnie

So what was that look that Beverly gave Rayna at the end?  I didn't read it as she was shamed by Rayna and now she has come back to save her brother as much as she wants more than money from Rayna at this point.  I wonder if she realizes that Rayna might have come clean to Deacon about the payoff measure.  I could see her wanting to hold that over Rayna's head for her personal gain...such as a recording contract at Highway 65.

Either that or she will demand that Rayna stay away from Deacon forever. She's just vile enough to make that a condition.

smiley13

smiley13

Beverly gave Rayna a majorly evil look at the end as she was hugging Deacon.  Can't wait to see what plays out with that.

 

Scarlett and Gunnar are the highlight once again.  Their performances are the best.  I am so glad that they are signing with Rayna.  To go anywhere else would be wrong.

 

Juliette is just awful.  That poor baby needs to be taken away from her since she is too selfish to look after her.  Poor Avery.  Wait until the tabloids get a hold of this.  Juliette's  career will really be dead in the water.  No one wants to buy the music of a child abuser which is what she has been.  She did not change or feed the poor baby.

 

And I loved seeing Rayna and Deacon perform together.  Next week should be a tear jerker.

Woebegone

Woebegone

I think the reason why Kevin (and Brent) work better as love interests is because they don't have an OTP hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. In Kylie's case, she's damaged goods and so was meant to be filler from the start. But Caleb is actually a decent guy and the only reason he doesn't work either is because Scarlett is "meant to be" with Gunnar.

jjj

jjj

Pretty much 99.9% of new mothers coming back home to a living room of solemn-faced family *and doctor* would immediately say, "what happened to the baby?"  I hope and expect they will rehabilitate Juliette at or by the start of next season.  "They" = writers.

 

I never look at the Comcast episode onscreen summaries until the end of episodes, because sometimes they just give too much away.  Last night's summary was odd -- I looked at it in the final five minutes, and it said "Will's father comes to town just as he learns tabloids will publish photos of Will and xxx" -- and that did not happen until the final minute or so.  So I'm guessing the episode summary got ahead of the plot.

 

I loved the Rayna/Deacon duet -- wish they would have let us watch it the whole way through. 

GaT

GaT

I find Scarlett and Gunnar's musical performances the least pleasant on the show, so for me it is a big detract.  And I find the two of them the least interesting relationship too.  They had potential when the show started, but that was quickly frittered away.

I thought they were much better as the 3 Exs (or whatever their name was), why does the show keep taking Avery out of the music? He's so good, & elevates any song he's involved with, but all we get from him now is baby drama.

  • Love 9
scenicbyway

scenicbyway

I wonder if Beverly thinks she can get even more money by publicly saving her brother?  She knows Rayna was willing to put up a million...  Also if she wasn't the leak, how did she know to go meet up with them at the Bluebird after the performance?  She knew they would be there because she's the one who told the radio station about his cancer.

Poor Juliette, it's obvious she has PPD.  She apparently had it since week 3 of Cadence when she suddenly decided she needed to go back to work.  She's normally hard to handle so it's taken her team a while to figure it out but is should've been obvious well before now.  As for Highway 65 not being supportive---she's supposed to be on maternity leave.  Should they be supporting her being out on the road less than a month after having a baby?

My favorite scene was Juliette and Rayna's meeting.  Rayna's just got the torn up check, Juliette's bitching at her for no real reason (the woman was there for you at the birth of your baby for pete's sake) and Rayna walks out--good for her.  I do think it's funny that Bucky and Glenn are actually two different men, they could be twins.

As for Scarlet and Gunnar--they are the young version of Rayna and Deacon.  Sure they could have great love, but is it a good idea?  Are the better as friends, will fate drive them back together anyway?

Does Teddy even need a storyline?  Can't he just pick up the girls from time to time?

  • Love 4
Sutton

Sutton

I was so emotional after seeing how Deacon/Rayna were so comfortable with each other (thanks to Chip/Connie on their acting) being together in this tragic situation with Deacon's illness not knowing what will be his fate. I've said before they are soul mates, they have each others back, they are there for each other know matter what. She could always depend on him to be there even when she was married, she'd call him, he'd come to hear what she had to say. She was always there for him checking on him to make sure he was alright. (When the magazine article came out about being fired from the Rebel Kings) That's why he didn't give up waiting, even though she wasted so much time, she finally realized and gave in to her heart that he's the only man she has ever loved. Would have liked to see move screen time between the two, just being themselves, singing together, holding and kissing each other in public not caring what anyone was thinking. One more episode and I'm sure it's going to be one hell of a cliff hanger.

deepfriedcake

deepfriedcake

Count me in as believing Beverly is our leaker. I hadn't thought about her then swooping in to receive the undying gratitude of Deacon's fans, but I bet you're right. Didn't we see her saying something like "It shoulda been me!" an episode or two ago? Her death stare at Rayna was probably supposed to be "I'm gonna show you now!" Looks like they are going the flatline route for the season's cliffhanger. Can we hope it's Beverly and not Deacon?

 

I hate, hate, HATE what they've done to Juliette. Blech. I fully expected our spunky diva to strap the baby to her in a sling and go off with Avery to make music. I wanted Rayna to give her advice gleaned from her own days of nursing babies in the backroom of the Grand Ol' Opry. And sorry, PPD or not, believing that a savvy star like Juliette would not have a nanny hired and ready to go is ludicrous. (But then, this is Nashville...)

 

Very disappointed that Avery didn't get to sing with the Exes. Also disappointed that Teddy is still walking around with a whole liver, that Tandy is apparently going to get trashed, and that Jeff is still drawing breath. Hey - there's another liver not doing much good!

 

On the other hand, that scene of comfort between Deacon and Rayna left me very, very happy. More of that, please.

  • Love 5
Soup333

Soup333

I hate, hate, HATE what they've done to Juliette. Blech. I fully expected our spunky diva to strap the baby to her in a sling and go off with Avery to make music. I wanted Rayna to give her advice gleaned from her own days of nursing babies in the backroom of the Grand Ol' Opry. And sorry, PPD or not, believing that a savvy star like Juliette would not have a nanny hired and ready to go is ludicrous. (But then, this is Nashville...)

 

 

This storyline is everything I was afraid it would be. I wish they would have chosen one of the other myriad ways that PPD manifests instead of having her turn into Super Bitch. She could have been hyper-focused on Cadence and not have any interest in her career (I know they wouldn't have even considered doing this), she could have been weepy and sad, could have been anxious and nervous about letting anyone, including Avery, take care of the baby in an effort to prove to herself that she could be a good mother. They could have done any number of things, but they chose this route. I'm a die hard, so I'll be a Juliette fan regardless, but there is something to be said about making a flawed character someone viewers can still root for. This is something they have historically been great at as far as Juliette's character, but I'd hate to see them write themselves into a corner where even after she is better, folks are still like, "She's a bitch and a bad mother. Avery should take the baby and leave." (Assuming he won't do so next week.)

 

At this point, I almost feel like she could have "I have PPD" tattooed on her cheek and folks will still feel that way. If this happens, it will be no fault of Hayden's because she's killing it. My heart broke when she told them to sing kumbaya and go to hell (paraphrasing). And Avery's tears! I imagine he must feel like Rayna did when she was trying to get Deacon to stop drinking years ago. It's a horrible thing to watch someone you love refuse the help that you know they need.  

  • Love 2
Madding crowd

Madding crowd

I'm not surprised to see Juliette act the way she is. She has always been immature and demanding. I don't see how her record label is supposed to anticipate she wanted to resume her career when the baby is a few days old. Communication would be good. Of course they should hire a nanny and let poor Emily off the hook before she quits.

 

Loved the scenes with Rayna and Deacon. The other stories seem kind of like retreads (Gunnar and Scarlett, Teddy digging himself yet another hole, Will trying to keep his secret). I found it hard to believe that even a young performer like Layla would sign such a contract.

 

On another note, I saw the Nashville cast in concert here in Chicago Tuesday night and they were great. Clare Bowen in particular came into the audience and hugged a woman battling cancer and they all seemed super friendly. Even got to see the Stella sisters who were amazing.

  • Love 5
Ely

Ely

I think the reason why Kevin (and Brent) work better as love interests is because they don't have an OTP hanging over their heads like a sword of Damocles. In Kylie's case, she's damaged goods and so was meant to be filler from the start. But Caleb is actually a decent guy and the only reason he doesn't work either is because Scarlett is "meant to be" with Gunnar.

That is a good point. I also think - because they are supporting characters - they don't have the pressure of delivering all the drama. I like characters like Caleb or Kevin (or Emily) better than some of the main characters. Just because they seem closer to life and are not as annoyingly - for the sake of drama - impractical.

OTOH, you cannot watch this show and expect Breaking Bad-esque development and consistency. Of course they're all over the top and this is why I watch this show in the first place. Which doesn't mean that I won't roll my eyes at the stories. The writers and actors just manage to keep the characters likeable. Well, most. Not all.

  • Love 3
SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

I think they made a big mistake with writing in the storyline of Juliette having a baby.  It may have sounded like a good idea, but the reality of the situation once the baby arrives is another thing.  The writers had difficulty with Juliette's character during pregnancy and now the postpartum depression.  It really limits her character, IMO.  Then what do they do with her after she's better?  They have a free spirited, tour loving, lead who's tied to parenting and a husband.  I just don't think they really thought it through. Being a parent really limits what they can do with her character. 

 

I'm so over the Gunnar/Scarlet romance.  Gunnar proposed to her and she wanted out of the relationship.  It's done.  Move on. They seem to have amnesia.  They act like 11 year-olds.  I don't find anything about them amusing anymore, except their singing, but I still prefer to hear Will and Layla sing over them.

 

Beverly will no doubt bring conflict back to town, but I think Rayna can handle her.  Not before we get a chance to see how stupid Deacon can be when it comes to his sister.

 

I am curious as how they save Will.  I know Luke will not be happy with his sidekick being exposed.  I really don't think the writers can keep Will active on the show as a performer, if he is outed, but they may give it a stab.  Will is a very selfish guy, but I do enjoy his singing and would hate to lose his character. The sudden appearance of his dad seemed odd to me.  What significance will that have?  

 

Just how many lives does Teddy have?  lol  He gets himself into a pickle and then survives again.  I'm one of the few Teddy fans, but I wish he would get a little smarter.

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CofCinci

CofCinci

(edited)

I think they made a big mistake with writing in the storyline of Juliette having a baby. It may have sounded like a good idea, but the reality of the situation once the baby arrives is another thing. The writers had difficulty with Juliette's character during pregnancy and now the postpartum depression. It really limits her character, IMO. Then what do they do with her after she's better? They have a free spirited, tour loving, lead who's tied to parenting and a husband. I just don't think they really thought it through. Being a parent really limits what they can do with her character.

It was the biggest mistake of the series. They could have written in her weight gain without using the pregnancy as an excuse.

Edited by CofCinci
  • Love 3
hqtextbook

hqtextbook

It was the biggest mistake of the series. They could have written in her weight gain without using the pregnancy as an excuse.

They should have gone the adoption route!  Neither is ready to have a baby. 

 

That being said, I think the very fact that there is so much discussion and debate on here about whether Juliette is a terrible person or a victim of mental illness proves that the show is doing something interesting. It just would have been so so unrealistic for Juliette to gloriously rise to the occasion and drop everything for this baby. She's already admitted to Avery that she has a lot of problems, and I think its great the show did not drop them just because she became a mother. And I think HP is doing awesome. I mean I'm still rooting for Juliette here!

  • Love 3
madam magpie

madam magpie

They should have gone the adoption route!  Neither is ready to have a baby. 

 

That being said, I think the very fact that there is so much discussion and debate on here about whether Juliette is a terrible person or a victim of mental illness proves that the show is doing something interesting. It just would have been so so unrealistic for Juliette to gloriously rise to the occasion and drop everything for this baby. She's already admitted to Avery that she has a lot of problems, and I think its great the show did not drop them just because she became a mother. And I think HP is doing awesome. I mean I'm still rooting for Juliette here!

I wish they were doing a better job, and instead of some crazy-eyed PPD thing, they'd given us a realistic portrayal of how women struggle after a baby's birth. But I'm also rooting for Juliette and think it's a good storyline. Plus, there would have been no way to hide Hayden' s pregnancy. She's a tiny person! It's interesting, but not at all surprising, that Avery's coming out smelling like a rose: He spent two (three?) whole weeks at home when the baby was born! Like...OMG! He's daddy of the year! Whereas all I can think is, "Come the frak on! Lean in, Avery!"

I'm going to give the "worst story decision on Nashville" to the Rayna coma/dead Jolene nonsense at the end of season one. I feel that's when the show took its turn and never looked back.

  • Love 2
Clemgo3165

Clemgo3165

I feel the same way about Avery, MM, and I think he had unrealistic expectations for who Juliette was going to be after the baby was born. Let's face it, Juliette is very career oriented, she's probably never going to be the EarthMother Goddess I think he envisioned. She's fully capable of being a good, loving Mom, just not one who bakes cookies for the PTA.

And it blew my mind a little bit that they went straight to intervention before anyone really talked to her. And how can a doc diagnose PPD without ever checking the patient?

  • Love 3
airwair

airwair

(edited)

I have to agree that the Juliette debacle is the great mistake of the series.

Rayna's coma/dead Jolene/Porkblood were all defining moments during which the show made its turn, but none of these occurrences irreparably ruined a lead character and where said character could go from that point.

Even Rayna has managed to bounce back with grace from her Puke nonsense.

I'm really doubting the writers' ability to redeem Juliette and accurately (and believably) have her be the character we've always known her to be/they've always written her to be and be an involved mother at the same time.

I agree with whoever said they just didn't think it through. There were about 50 different ways they could've handled her pregnancy, but they chose this. And this really, really sucks.

All that said, she was absolutely awful this week. I get she is sick, but she KNOWS what Rayna is going through, and Deacon is supposed to be her friend. "Bitch gets five minutes."? "Rayna demanded an album in two days."? Going rogue and not giving two shits that her label is being hit with fines and negative press for her shenanigans?

If they're trying to use the PPD card to gain sympathy from me it isn't working, much like it didn't work for me whe that woman in Texas killed all 7 of her kids and tried to use it as her excuse.

Edited by airwair
  • Love 4
madam magpie

madam magpie

I have no doubt Juliette will be redeemed. That's how they do things on this show. It seems that only one of the main women can be a decent human being at a time, and right now it's Rayna's turn. That will change at some point, and they'll butcher Rayna so Juliette can be more sympathetic. Most people will forgive and forget like we do with all the characters. Some won't. That's just the circle of character life on Nashville.

  • Love 1
Soup333

Soup333

There was no avoiding the pregnancy, Hayden's entire body showed that baby weight. No doubt Juliette would have been vilified by some if they'd have gone the adoption route. I think the PPD storyline could have been done but certainly not the way that they've chosen to do it. Why is it so severe? Why isn't she aware that something is wrong with her? Why haven't we ever seen her struggling to connect with baby? All we've seen is anger, rudeness and ambition. And in this episode, neglect.

 

I have no clue what Avery's expectations were, but I'm sure he figured she'd call their baby by her name. I don't think anybody really expected her to take any significant time off, but Cadence is what? At best, six weeks old? 

 

Instead of this super severe PPD drama, she could have just been scared and unsure. About parenting, about getting back to work and balancing her marriage/Cadence with her music. Then, instead of "Bitch gets five minutes," we could have had a lovely Rayna/Juliette scene where they talk about all that. Juliette could have even acknowledged Deacon's cancer and what that must be doing to Rayna. I'm clearly asking for too much.

 

I don't know what to expect next week, but I don't have high hopes. I think Avery leaving his wife when she is going through this would be the worst thing to happen for her recovery especially when she already has abandonment issues, but he absolutely has to think of their daughter's well-being. 

  • Love 5
smiley13

smiley13

If they're trying to use the PPD card to gain sympathy from me it isn't working, much like it didn't work for me when that woman in Texas killed all 7 of her kids and tried to use it as her excuse.

It is not working for me either.    They have already written Juliette as the poster child for all of the common excuses for things today. 

evilmindatwork

evilmindatwork

(edited)

I don't think it's good form for me to respond to this with a thousands-word-long post so I'll just link my analysis from tumblr:

 

http://kathemy.tumblr.com/post/118357839626/s-g-hating

I'll just respond here since I don't have Tumblr account. Untrue! I've never been a "Scarlett hater" (she's one of the characters I relate to most because I have similar artistic leanings and confidence issues). I even liked Scarlett and Gunnar as a pair in the first season. I totally agree that the writers have mishandled both characters. 

 

As it stands though, Gunnar's character kind of sucks. The Zoey plot and Michah(?) shenanigans, his emotional blackmail of Scarlett  make me want to punch him in the face (his rare Will rated scenes are the exception). He and Scarlett (with or without Avery) can continue to make music though-- they're great at that.

Edited by evilmindatwork
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Kathemy

Kathemy

I didn't link that post specifically to suggest you were a Scarlett hater, it was more for my position on the romantic pairing.

 

The writers seem to know no way to keep them apart except writing one or both of them as unlikable. At the same the overall romance arc between them is never going away. They should just stop with the character assassination.

  • Love 2
SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

While I would love to believe that Will's father is legit happy for his son and completely accepting...hell, I can't even type that with a straight face. Y'all will be able to knock me over with a feather if Nashville takes the road less traveled and Will's father has changed.

 

More of a road already travelled, a lot of times. It's a longstanding notion in American TV and movie sentimentalism that people who have shown themselves to be total dicks all their lives can overnight, magically, change into caring, loving human beings, and have the people who they've been dicks to immediately accept this. For a very recent example, see Empire, where they have Jamal's dad undergo exactly this impossible transformation.

 

I don't see that happening and I like Luke. I liked his expression when he saw the photos though. I think Luke has already figured out Will's deal and just doesn't care.

 

This. He seemed annoyed rather than surprised. The one thing he would definitely care about is how this will affect Will's, and therefore his own label's, future commercial success. (When he first put Kevin and Will together, Will actually thought that Luke might already know, but that could of course just be typical closet paranoia talking. But I also find it unrealistic to assume that in the real world, there wouldn't be at least some gossip about Will going around in the industry. There are by now more than enough people around who know his secret, and who would have no reason to protect his closet. Are we to assume, for instance, that Brent disappeared off the face of the earth, and never told anyone anything? And why wouldn't Jeff now happily spread rumours, to get back at Luke? Let alone any other guys he's hooked up with in the past. After all, there must have been something that led a paparazzo photographer to Kevin and Will.)

 

But I think the writers have always been saddled with a major problem with Will's storyline. There is nothing else that happens on the show that hasn't happened, in some form at least, in reality. But there is this pretty universal perception that it would be impossible for an A-list country performer to come out (or so thoroughly outed that nobody can keep on pretending not to know) and continue to be successful. Even more so when that performer owes a lot of his success to being a heartthrob for the ladies. But the industry internally isn't particularly homophobic. Hence the Will situation at this point is still completely plausible: Will as a, by necessity deeply closeted, star, and Kevin as a successful, out songwriter. Both kinds of people who we know have existed, and still exist - apparently, there are plenty of out country songwriters. they just have to kiss goodbye to the idea that they might ever be performers themselves. But what would happen if a Will analog in the real world came out, nobody knows. Would the country music audience really turn out to be as homophobic as generally assumed? The experiment has never been done. So how to write a story dealing with that that seems realistic?

 

Sorry to include another comparison to Empire, but they faced a somewhat similar problem. The character of Jamal was explicitly created to deal with the issue of "too much homophobia in the black community" (to quote from the pilot - Empire doesn't do anything subtly). But in their case, they inadvertently, by casting Jussie Smollett for that role, got to carry out the experiment in reality. And as far as I can tell, that claimed homophobia never materialized, neither in relation to the character, nor to the actor. So there, the writers were indeed shown to have gambled on the right fictional outcome: that it would have little impact, and what impact it did have was positive.

 

Oh yes, before I forget, I have an entirely off-screen reason to think that it won't be curtains for Will and Kevin, not yet at least:

Kyle Dean Massey (Kevin) retweeted the news of the Nashville renewal, with just the comment "Yay!" added. I don't think he would have done that if his character wouldn't be back in the next season. But that's just guessing.

Edited by SailingBy
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Woebegone

Woebegone

(edited)

 

Are we to assume, for instance, that Brent disappeared off the face of the earth, and never told anyone anything?

 

But didn't he? Last I recall, he was Layla's manager, then.. nothing. My personal theory is that he witnessed a mob hit and is in FBI witness protection under an assumed identity in Oregon.

 

I don't think Luke knows or else he might have been more hesitant about hitching his wagon to Will's. I think at the very least he would have tried to have a frank conversation with Will about it. You're right that it hasn't actually happened so we don't know what the result will be, but these are business people with a lot of money at stake. They don't like putting that money at risk.

 

At the same time , I don't think Luke is bigoted or will have a particularly bad reaction. I think at most he'll be upset that Will (and Kevin who, let's not forget, he's also friends with) hid this from him.

 

As for the off-screen reason to think Kevin will be back in S4: 

Kyle Dean Massey is a fan of the show, long before he was ever cast. I think he'd be happy that the show was renewed just like any other fan would be.

 

That said, I do have some moderate hope that he'll return. I think the writers probably realize by now that we're looking for something else besides a repeat of what happened to Brent. I think that, considering how Will seems much more into Kevin than vice versa, that he wouldn't be happy to give that up just to go back into the closet.

Edited by Woebegone
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SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

But didn't he? Last I recall, he was Layla's manager, then.. nothing.

Not even enough of a character to properly write out. Sad, innit?

 

My personal theory is that he witnessed a mob hit and is in FBI witness protection under an assumed identity in Oregon.

You just came up with the idea for a new spinoff series! Oregon: FBIWPP (I hear shows with placenames and acronyms in the title are always popular.)

 

I don't think Luke knows or else he might have been more hesitant about hitching his wagon to Will's.

As always, I feel a bit silly talking about such things as if we were talking about real people with real knowledge of real events, or real opinions. We're actually trying to second-guess a bunch of producers and writers, who probably don't agree among themselves about things, and who often make decisions based on things entirely extraneous to any storylines (like having to kill off characters, or end relationships, simply because of problems with actors, to name an obvious example.) We may also be over-analyzing things and trying to read things into characters that nobody involved ever thought about.

 

That said, I was just suggesting that Luke just might know already, or strongly suspect, since in any fairly small community, which I think the country music industry is, gossip spreads quickly, and there's no reason to think there wouldn't be gossip about Will going around, given what has been shown about him in the past. Especially since that industry centers on an even smaller number of people, namely, the on-stage talent. Nobody would bother to remember, or pass on, something Brent might have told them about how he once hooked up with, say, some guy who worked in A&R for some label or other. Saying the same thing about Will Lexington would be another matter. Similarly, if Layla once confided in a friend about how her brief marriage failed because the guy turned out to be gay. Not gossip-worthy, unless the guy in question is somebody everybody already knows. I go by the old adage: there's no such thing as a secret that more than two people know about.

 

I think at the very least he would have tried to have a frank conversation with Will about it. You're right that it hasn't actually happened so we don't know what the result will be, but these are business people with a lot of money at stake. They don't like putting that money at risk.

 

Exactly. Which is why I think that anyone in the industry would work on the tacit assumption that anyone in Will's position would know that too, and respect the unwritten rule, since his livelihood is even more dependent on respecting it than theirs (after all, talent is replaceable, company owners stay company owners, at least most of the time).

 

As to the first part: such a frank conversation would be a good idea of course, but in reality, it's something most people, rightfully, shy away from. It's an extremely common occurrence for people who come out to those they know to find it a bit anti-climactic, in that they get lots of "I'm so glad you're finally talking about it, because I didn't want to bring up the subject myself" responses. You're after all dealing with something that really is none of your business, that is highly personal, and that clearly the person in question isn't comfortable talking about himself. In Will's case, whenever the subject did come up, he usually just ran and hid. The poor guy is barely able to talk about it, even with the few people he trusts, let alone have a frank conversation with Luke about how they'd be dealing with this in business terms. If Luke had brought it up, I think Will would have been out of there in a second, and gone to any one of the other labels that were after him. He is, after all, supposed to be a red-hot property, and at that point, setting up a new label, Luke needed Will more than the other way round. In fact, if Will had been capable of such frank, rational discussion about this topic, he wouldn't be in the permament mess he's in. Plenty of people in similar positions manage to organize their lives in a compartimentalized way without too much hardship to themselves, or their partners, but Will isn't one of those people. (Call me sentimental, but I think that's actually part of how the character is portrayed. He isn't some kind of calculating performer who knows that hiding an important aspect of himself is part of the job, if he wants to make it to the big time, I think at least part of him genuinely feels bad about himself for doing so.)

 

At the same time , I don't think Luke is bigoted or will have a particularly bad reaction. I think at most he'll be upset that Will (and Kevin who, let's not forget, he's also friends with) hid this from him.

He obviously isn't bigoted, and they seem to also have been trying to turn him into a kinder, gentler version of himself recently.

 

That said, I do have some moderate hope that he'll return. I think the writers probably realize by now that we're looking for something else besides a repeat of what happened to Brent.

I agree with what you said about my little spoiler thing, but it was just one more little sign that, hopefully, things might be heading in the right direction.  (Part of the hope being based on the entirely sound principle that in a just world, there should be continuing CC/KDM eye candy. Natural justice also demands at least one proper duet, and not just KDM doing some barely discernible backing vocals.) But mostly, it's the writing. I really think they've taken the character, and this relationship, too far to suddenly let it all implode at the end of the season. And if they did, where would that leave the writers for season 4? Will would be pretty much right back where he started from in season 1 (if they also find some way of writing away that impending tabloid outing, that is - which also isn't terribly realistic in this day and age, but let's let that pass). As you say, they would have to do a painfully obvious retread of something they've done twice already ("Oh look, here's another newly introduced goodlooking gay guy. I wonder if he and Will might get together somehow, before it all ends disastrously?"). Either that, or just let the whole character fade away, and send him off to Oregon: FBIWPP land. Or be abducted by aliens. Or find Jesus and successfully turn straight through conversion therapy. OK, that last one is too far-fetched.

 

I think that, considering how Will seems much more into Kevin than vice versa, (...)

See, it's interesting how perceptions can differ. We're once again only second-guessing writers, but I never got that impression. I thought Kevin was initially confused by the inevitably confused signals poor, hopelessly awkward and new-to-all-this Will was sending out. To quote Chris Carmack (but remember, actors are often having to second-guess writers too): "I think at first we see Kevin is tentative about getting involved with Will because Will is in this teetering place. (...) You get the feeling like maybe he doesn’t want to deal with Will’s s**t.". (I hope that last word doesn't break some forum rule.) But I thought he was always strongly attracted to Will, and not just in the, entirely obvious, physical way. After all, he was the one who could read Will well enough to go over to his place, and finally corner him into bringing out at least some words, after two miserably failed attempts, before putting the poor guy out of his misery. Otherwise, I think it's just different personalities and backgrounds showing. Will is supposed to be all emotional and angsty, hiding behind his public "dog and pony show" (to quote Chris Carmack again), and is now, for the first time, entering entirely new emotional territory. Whereas Kevin just has to be calm and stable, and hopefully keep Will on the right track while giving him time to sort out his issues, until he ends up where he belongs.

Edited by SailingBy
Soup333

Soup333

(edited)

 

More of a road already travelled, a lot of times. It's a longstanding notion in American TV and movie sentimentalism that people who have shown themselves to be total dicks all their lives can overnight, magically, change into caring, loving human beings, and have the people who they've been dicks to immediately accept this. For a very recent example, see Empire, where they have Jamal's dad undergo exactly this impossible transformation.

 

Sorry to include another comparison to Empire, but they faced a somewhat similar problem. The character of Jamal was explicitly created to deal with the issue of "too much homophobia in the black community" (to quote from the pilot - Empire doesn't do anything subtly). But in their case, they inadvertently, by casting Jussie Smollett for that role, got to carry out the experiment in reality. And as far as I can tell, that claimed homophobia never materialized, neither in relation to the character, nor to the actor. So there, the writers were indeed shown to have gambled on the right fictional outcome: that it would have little impact, and what impact it did have was positive.

 

 

As far as the first comment, yes, Will's father could have changed, but I think Kevin's reaction to him is key here. Kevin's mistrust could mean that we shouldn't trust Will's father and that when he finds out that Will is "still" gay, he will revert back to his disapproving ways or it could mean that Kevin is jaded because of what he's seen/experienced. I'd love to see SOME DAMN BODY on this show have a healthy relationship with a parent (Avery and his mother aside), but I'm not sure it'll happen with Will and his father. 

 

As far as Empire, the non-reaction to Jamal's homophobia was a decision they made to prove a point to Lucious' character. That nobody cared but him. I think the repercussions would be different for Will in the Nashville world. 

 

Also felt that Will and Kevin were equally into each other, at least from what we saw in this last episode. I thought Kevin was completely understanding about the situation, much more so that I thought he would be. I feel that Kevin has long left the closet, so to speak, and has no patience for those who have an issue with who he is. He's probably the best person to be with Will if the tabloid thing explodes.

 

I've never been a "Scarlett hater" (she's one of the characters I relate to most because I have similar artistic leanings and confidence issues). 

 

I see Scarlett as soft-spoken, but she's not what I would consider weak-willed. She's the only character to have gone off on every other character on this show (the ones relevant in her life). They've all gotten a piece of her mind for some well-deserved reason. It's amazing that she is so compassionate and level-headed considering who her mother is. Beverly is the kind of mother that could destroy a child.

Edited by Soup333
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SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

As far as the first comment, yes, Will's father could have changed, but I think Kevin's reaction to him is key here. Kevin's mistrust could mean that we shouldn't trust Will's father and that when he finds out that Will is "still" gay, he will revert back to his disapproving ways or it could mean that Kevin is jaded because of what he's seen/experienced. I'd love to see SOME DAMN BODY on this show have a healthy relationship with a parent (Avery and his mother aside), but I'm not sure it'll happen with Will and his father.

To quote Chris Carmack one last time, Will's dad "has been seeing the Will Lexington that Will Lexington has been presenting to the world, which is a lie, so he thinks his son is somebody else. The man that Will Lexington has pretended to be for the cameras is somebody that his father wants to try to mend fences with and have a relationship with. Whether his father is going to accept the reality of Will is a whole other question." I think he's in general agreement with you and the other posters on this forum (and he already knows what will happen in the final episode!)

 

As far as Empire, the non-reaction to Jamal's homophobia was a decision they made to prove a point to Lucious' character.

Indeed. But the non-reaction or positive reaction from the fictional audience to the fictional Jamal coming out, a pretty obscure black, gay, singer-songwriter who suddenly becomes famous, was a fictional decision the writers could make. The non-reaction or positive reaction from the real audience to the real Jussie Smollett coming out, a pretty obscure black, gay, singer-songwriter (and occasional actor) who suddenly becomes famous, was something they didn't control. And the character and storyline were created before any of the people involved knew Jussie Smollett even existed. It was a pretty amazing case of life imitating art. Unless Chris Carmack suddenly turns gay, or some high-profile male country star comes out, the writers of Nashville won't have the opportunity to find out if they got it right, whichever way they go.

Edited by SailingBy
Soup333

Soup333

Yes, I absolutely meant homosexuality. That's what I get for replying well past my bedtime. 

 

Interesting point about Empire and life imitating art. Too bad we weren't given a hint of Jamal's album sales went after he came out. 

 

I don't know what the Nashville reaction will be to an out gay singer. These are much the same fans who burned Juliette's albums and boycotted her shows for her affair and alleged "There is no God," comment. 

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SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

Yes, I absolutely meant homosexuality. That's what I get for replying well past my bedtime.

I first meant to do something textual scholars call an emendation: simply change the word to read what you obviously meant to write. But that's not really accepted practice when quoting internet posts. (I do sometimes silently fix minor typos in quotes, of the kind I make myself.)

 

Interesting point about Empire and life imitating art. Too bad we weren't given a hint of Jamal's album sales went after he came out.

If I remember the timeline correctly, his debut album came out  a bit after Jamal did, so to speak, and is a huge success. But Empire doesn't tend to be very clear on humdrum specifics like that. (The soundtrack album came out on the same day Jussie Smollett did, though, and immediately went to No. 1.)

 

I don't know what the Nashville reaction will be to an out gay singer. These are much the same fans who burned Juliette's albums and boycotted her shows for her affair and alleged "There is no God," comment.

Since I only started following in season 3, I missed that particular bit of crazy when trying to catch up with the first seasons, so I had a look (isn't the internet wonderful?). Yes, the writers clearly don't mind portraying at least some country fans as total lunatics, do they? I suppose they could have the Westboro Baptist Church turning up wherever Will Lexington performs.

Edited by SailingBy
SlovakPrincess

SlovakPrincess

Oh, goody.  The ubiquitous very special intervention episode.  Although I do hope Juliette gets some help.  

 

Jeff and Layla continue to creep me out as a couple.

 

Oh, hi there, Kiley.  I forgot you were still here ...  

 

Why are Gunnar and Scarlett arguing so much?  I keep trying to pay attention, and I just can't.  It's just contrived conflict to me.

 

Deacon and Rayna were depressing the hell out of me.  At least Beverly is going to cough up that liver slice now.  But what was with the demonic look she gave Rayna at the end?!

 

Will's scenes with his dad and his boyfriend were good, though.   Yikes, about the tabloid press about to go after him.  

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Woebegone

Woebegone

Not even enough of a character to properly write out. Sad, innit?

 

What I find super weird is that they DID write him out. Jeff fired him and you'd think that would be the end, but then he comes back a few episodes later, and this time around there's no explanation when he vanishes. It's as if the writers changed their minds about writing him out and then changed their minds again.

 

To quote Chris Carmack (but remember, actors are often having to second-guess writers too): "I think at first we see Kevin is tentative about getting involved with Will because Will is in this teetering place. (...) You get the feeling like maybe he doesn’t want to deal with Will’s s**t.".

 

This is kind of what I meant. All other things being equal, it's definitely possible that Kevin's as into Will as Will is into him, but the reality is that they're on different footing. Kevin is probably trying to keep himself from being too invested and while he seemed to loosen up during their vacation, you can see that by the end of the episode, his guard is back up.

 

I'd like Kevin to be back next season too, but it's hard to see how far ahead the writers could have planned when they didn't even know if the show was being renewed. At the very least, they couldn't have already negotiated future guest appearances, which means that if KDM found conflicting work in the interim, he couldn't come back no matter what happens in the season finale.

 

But yeah, if we're going back the writing alone, they do seem to be building towards something. The writers never really seemed to know what to do with Brent which also strangely paralleled how Will felt about him too. But with Kevin they do seem to have an endgame (or at least a midgame) in mind.

SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

I'd like Kevin to be back next season too, but it's hard to see how far ahead the writers could have planned when they didn't even know if the show was being renewed. At the very least, they couldn't have already negotiated future guest appearances, which means that if KDM found conflicting work in the interim, he couldn't come back no matter what happens in the season finale.

 

All very true, and a good summary of why the way most American TV series are made is completely screwed up. People are permanently having to write open-ended cliffhanger storylines leading up to the season finale, because they might be renewed or not. It's only rarely that any show can be written to some kind of somewhat satisfactory conclusion. Because of the way the pilot season/renewal decisions system works, they can't know if actors except the ones with longer-term contracts will still be available for existing characters, or if they can turn a newly introduced recurring character (like Kevin) into a regular one. And in the opposite direction, they have to keep characters that really have run out of a storyline, but whose actors have contracts, and must try to find something for them to do. On top of that there are ridiculous things like sweeps weeks, and mid-season breaks, which determine the timing of storylines.

 

Sorry for that rant, which isn't specific to this particular show. To bring it back to Nashville and your point, yes, whether or not Will and Kevin ride off into the sunset together to live happily ever after may well depend on something as stupid as whether or not Kyle Dean Massey first lands another job that pays better, or that creates scheduling conflicts. Which is a pretty silly way of doing things. (Not that I don't wish a multitude of as many high-paying gigs as possible on KDM.)

Edited by SailingBy
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MisterS

MisterS

And in the opposite direction, they have to keep characters that really have run out of a storyline, but whose actors have contracts, and must try to find something for them to do.

Does that explain why Teddy is still around with his terrible storylines? Although I like the actor. I thought they could fire actors who had outlived their usefulness, even if they were on long term contracts (a la the other actors involved in the snoozy political storylines in Season 1).

On a separate issue, I am fearful about the Beverly story which I now think is likely in Season 4. I'd like Rayna and Deacon to operate as a couple - with all the drama that might bring - without horrible external threats (booze, lies, Luke, cancer and now a psychotic sibling).

airwair

airwair

They can definitely get rid of actors regardless of their contracts if TPTB so choose.

Patrick Dempsey signed a two year contract last summer, which should have taken him through next season of Grey's. We see how well that turned out.

I believe Bobby Cannavale also has time left on his contract when he was killed off Third Watch, but the internal rumors were he had been complaining about the lack of direction his character was taking so they killed him to spite him.

No one is immune and that's kind of the beauty, the problem is these writers don't take advantage, which is why Teddy is still here.

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Soup333

Soup333

(edited)

 

This is kind of what I meant. All other things being equal, it's definitely possible that Kevin's as into Will as Will is into him, but the reality is that they're on different footing. Kevin is probably trying to keep himself from being too invested and while he seemed to loosen up during their vacation, you can see that by the end of the episode, his guard is back up.

  

But yeah, if we're going back the writing alone, they do seem to be building towards something. The writers never really seemed to know what to do with Brent which also strangely paralleled how Will felt about him too. But with Kevin they do seem to have an endgame (or at least a midgame) in mind.

 

The thing about Brent, who did seem to just vanish from the planet, is that Will was not ready to have any kind of relationship. I think that would have been the case even if he wasn't an up and coming artist with his own reality tv show (and a wife/beard). He just wasn't emotionally in a place where he could do it, even if they kept it private. His self-disgust was just too -- what did he say to Gunnar after almost committing suicide, "I hate being this." 

 

Brent and Kevin may have been on more equal footing, at least as far as living their lives the way they choose. But I don't think Brent was the type of guy who would have pushed Will into confronting his feelings about himself. That's probably not fair to Brent, because we didn't really get to truly know him, but that's the impression that I got. I think he would have accepted, at least for a time, being a really, really private part of Will's life with no hope of ever being his true partner. Eventually, that wouldn't have been enough, of course.

 

At any rate, It's time for Nashville to piss or get off the pot with this storyline. We've been circling around Will's story for two and a half seasons. 

 

Edited to add: I think Brent may have pushed, but I don't think he would have been successful.

Edited by Soup333
SailingBy

SailingBy

(edited)

They can definitely get rid of actors regardless of their contracts if TPTB so choose.

Of course. But cutting someone with a contract costs money. And the writers have to do what the showrunners and the producers tell them, and the showrunners and producers have to do what the networks tell them. Exactly who is at the top of that particular pecking order at any given moment depends on circumstances. For instance, currently at ABC Shonda Rhimes is queen, since she's perceived to have been the savior of the network. So the people making anything that has her name on it, even if she isn't closely involved (How To Get Away With Murder, for instance) can pretty much do what they like, as long as the ratings keep coming. If a network has decided that they paid a good deal of money for actor X to be on a show, then that actor's character will damn well have to get a continuing storyline, regardless of whether that makes sense in the overall fictional universe of that show or not.

 

The way American episodic TV series are made is extremely peculiar. In most of Europe (or at least those bits of it I'm familiar with), things are done entirely differently.  It's much closer to the making of what in the US are called miniseries, a genre that tends to go in and out of fashion periodically. I'm generalizing madly here, but: a writer (and it's very often literally one writer, or two writers working as a team, not whole groups of them having to work together) pitches an idea, and when he manages to sell it, he gets to write a preset number of episodes, which are all made, and broadcast (there really is no such thing as a mid-season cancellation in Europe, I think). It's much closer to the way a novelist works. I've often thought one could make a hilarious parody by imagining what some of the great, sprawling novels of the nineteenth century would have been like if their authors had been writing under the constraints of American network TV. "Previously, on Les Misérables: [cue a bit of a scene in the season 1 finale where Inspector Javert is shot - but did he die???]." In season 2, episode 1, it turns out Javert died. Because the actor playing him demanded too much money to return for another season. Phew, that's Jean Valjean off the hook, isn't it? I'd better not get started on "Previously, on War and Peace...".

 

Not that many fiction writers in the past haven't been under commercial constraints of whatever market it was they were operating in. Back when novels were published in weekly or monthly installments, publishers didn't like it much when popular characters were killed off. Arthur Conan Doyle famously killed off Sherlock Holmes, intentionally in a way that would make it impossible to reverse that, because he'd grown sick and tired of him. Then after an interval had to magically resurrect him, because it turns out bills don't pay themselves, and nobody was very interested in anything Doyle wrote that wasn't about Sherlock Holmes.

Edited by SailingBy
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SunnyBeBe

SunnyBeBe

This show seems to jump with a storyline and not really commit to it long term.  Recall how they went with Scarlet suffering from mental illness, but in no time at all, she's cured.  And recall how crazy they had Will acting one time?  He was seeing things, freaking out, trying to kill himself, and then presto....he's back to normal.  I wish they would commit to the storyline long term or leave it alone.  

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Sandman

Sandman

(edited)

Two things I found highly amusing in this episode: Avery's "WTF? We're calling Rayna the B-word now?" face on the plane, and Doctor Latte's "Uh, this song is super-awkward! And kind of on-the-nose, even for this show" expression at the Bluebird.

Nice to see that Jeff's supply of ethics ran out and he's back to being a creepy, destructive weirdo. And by "nice," I mean both gross and predictable. Did Layla get drunk enough to leave her brain at Jade's house last week?

Yikes -- that look Beverly gave Rayna over Deacon's shoulder at the end there was truly malevolent. (Are we totally sure that Beverly hates Rayna because she "stole her career" and not because Rayna, uh, "stole her man"? Because Beverly is creeping me out more than Jeff Fordham.)

Edited by Sandman
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aradia22

aradia22

Jeff is a creeper. This is disturbing controlling behavior making sure that Layla trusts him and doubts herself and believes that she has to rely on him and be dependent on him. And it's worse considering Layla doesn't really have friends (except Will, sort of...) so he just cut her off from another one (even if she might have turned on her later anyway). Then, answering her phone, controlling who talks to her and then lying to her about it. And trolling people on twitter is not a good look. "I built you up from nothing." Implying that she's nothing and that she has him to thank for all her success? "No one's going to take care of you the way that I have." She gets a compliment only after she does what he wants and signs the contract? UGH, go AWAY, Jeff.

 

Scarlett's being a brat. Sam doesn't know how to play it but luckily I remember that Gunnar still hasn't had the success he looked for as an artist and hey, Scarlett, he's the one who actually wanted to perform in the first place, not write weird poems no one read... 

 

I love Chris' voice but that I'm On It song for Will is creepy.

 

I'm glad Beverly returned the check. If there's any hope for her character, she had to. Plus it was a shady Lamar kind of move from Rayna.

 

Juliette has a legitimate point about Rayna doing very little to run Highway 65 in a meaningful way. I get that she's going through stuff but is there no one to delegate to? Is that how they're running the business? If Rayna isn't there to do it, nothing gets done? Forget any soap machinations, Highway 65 is going to fold in a month if that's their plan.

 

I don't know why but Rayna's tears never work for me.

 

Does no one at the Bluebird have a problem with all the surprise performance changes? 

 

I like Kyle Dean Massey but this character is kind of like Blaine on Glee right now. No one's boyfriend is this perfect.

 

LOL at Emily and Avery finally deciding something was wrong with Juliette. I guess there are small mercies... we didn't see her trying to smother the baby.

 

Wait, is Gunnar with Kylie now? I didn't think they were actually romantically involved. ...Why?

 

Aw, poor Will. I miss this. Two people on opposite sides of an argument who have sympathetic points of view.

 

I think I saw a flash of fear in Hayden's eyes when she was finishing Juliette's rant. 

 

Doctor and Kylie were wasted this episode. I know they're not big characters but it felt almost disrespectful to just use them to push Gunnar and Scarlett together. Really? This is why you made me waste time on all these other storylines? There are easier ways to get two characters in a relationship. Hell, you got Jeff and Layla together, writers.

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