S01.E14: The Search

[Archery]

So odd.  There's tons of forum threads and blog posts saying essentially, Please make the sex scenes as explicit as possible (and if you don't want to see them, then you are a hopeless prude!!!!!), and, Yay for Jack's exposed penis!!!!!!, and then, I really didn't need to see milk being expressed . . .

 

Really?  If we want to talk about the female gaze and the female experience in the show, it doesn't make sense to short shrift the physical sacrifices Jenny was willing to suffer to find Jamie, or at least to get Claire on the right track.  Galloping astride without one word of complaint because it has to be done, and waiting until she was ready to explode before expressing (newborns nurse like, every 2 hours, and engorgement hurts) so they could get as much distance as possible?  That's some badassery right there. 

 

Every time I've read Outlander (and it's many), I've had the same thought -- which reared its head when Dougal said Jamie happened upon 6 soldiers who recognized him:  Boy, cut your hair and dye it black with charcoal, or whatever. 

[AheadofStraight]

The method is still common now. I know women who don't respond to pumps but are able to hand express a ton of milk!! So far we've seen a fairly relaxed home birth of a breech baby (I had one too) and breasts being used for what they were actually intended. I'm loving it. 

 

I think I'm just going to have to not read the non-book threads at all since we can't post in them. That is annoying to my OCD-like behavior of preferring to see all posts cleared in the forum though. Heh. I'll just go in, then out, I guess! 

[ulkis]

I like when the show does slice of life stuff or otherwise show the realities of the time period. It's one of my favorite things about the books: they never romanticize the past or gloss over the hardships. So I liked the inclusion of Jenny's 18th century pumping method too.

 

I guess it depends on how they do it. There's been some gratuitous stuff, but one scene I liked was in episode 2 where Mrs Fitz was taking off Claire's clothes and they didn't go out of their way to avoid showing her boobs, but they didn't linger on it. It was just two women, changing into another outfit, no big deal.

Edited May 11, 2015 by ulkis

[GHScorpiosRule]

I think I'm just going to have to not read the non-book threads at all since we can't post in them. That is annoying to my OCD-like behavior of preferring to see all posts cleared in the forum though. Heh. I'll just go in, then out, I guess! 

 

Same here. But it's like rubber necking, or can't NOT see an accident or click on to read comments in "news" articles. Once you do, you regret it, because I find myself face palming, or wondering why someone can't correct/clarify when erroneous information is talked about. i.e. yes, the show did address this and so and so said it; or no, that didn't happen that way.

Edited May 12, 2015 by GHScorpiosRule

[ulkis]

my OCD-like behavior of preferring to see all posts cleared in the forum though. Heh. I'll just go in, then out, I guess! 

 

You can press "mark read" and it will clear all the posts for you. It's the yellow button on the right side.

[chocolatetruffle]

I'm really surprised that the breast milk scene would be controversial, especially with how vocal breastfeeding campaigns have been in recent years.  I can't wait for the day when women's bodies become acceptable things in the public eye.  I especially can't wait for breastfeeding to stop being sexualized, or worse, likened to pissing and shitting.  Ugh.  

 

Yeah, I was shocked to see negative references to the scene on the non-book thread.  It is the most natural way to nourish a child and every mammal on the planet  does it - and it has nothing to do with body elimination functions, for heaven's sake.

[mledawn]

The Canadian feed did have TM's penis, for the record.

[GHScorpiosRule]

I'm saying it now...I'm watching the next episode as soon as it's available and I've confirmed that I don't have to wait until Saturday night to do so.

[aemom]

Just read that the Canadian channel that airs Outlander deleted the breast milk expressing scene. How odd. Did they keep in "Little Tobias" from two weeks ago and the many other violent or sexual nude scenes? Makes one wonder....

I was trying to figure out how I missed that scene. We saw Tobias in that other episode and we've seen plenty of sex and violence so I'm not sure how they decide what to cut.

But when everyone was talking about the scene about how Jamie puts on his kilt in that earlier episode, I was "huh?" I think that was cut too.

[Nidratime]

But when everyone was talking about the scene about how Jamie puts on his kilt in that earlier episode, I was "huh?" I think that was cut too.

 

 

Are you serious? There was nothing racy at all about that and, in fact, it was one of those opening card montages. It wasn't even *in* the episode. Sounds like they deleted it for time. Is the channel you watch it on a commercial network that plays commercials and would force the network to cut the episode to fit in ads?

[nodorothyparker]

If we want to talk about the female gaze and the female experience in the show, it doesn't make sense to short shrift the physical sacrifices Jenny was willing to suffer to find Jamie, or at least to get Claire on the right track.  Galloping astride without one word of complaint because it has to be done, and waiting until she was ready to explode before expressing (newborns nurse like, every 2 hours, and engorgement hurts) so they could get as much distance as possible?  That's some badassery right there.

This exactly. The fact that Jenny so matter of factly did all of this without even hesitating is why I'm willing to give her the benefit of the doubt in the later books when she says and does things that would be very easy to dislike her for. She's tough as hell and loves Jamie so fiercely that she bucks up and does what she has to do.

I truly appreciated the honestly of leaving the milk expressing in. I never had to try to ride horseback after giving birth but I know how painful the engorgement was every time I was away from one of my newborns for more than a couple of hours. That's as much a part of the female experience and female gaze that the show is so lauded for as anything else.

Edited May 12, 2015 by nodorothyparker

[WatchrTina]

I'm reposting a speculation I have about what Sam was up to during the filming of this Sam-free episode.  I think Sam worked out with weights daily right up to the day of the nekkid-in-the-water scene from the "Lallybroch" episode.  After that I think he was told to switch back to his pre-Outlander work-out mode (he was a triathlete, ye ken.)  I think he immediately stopped lifting, cut his intake of calories, and started running more.  If they shot the scene in the water early in the filming of the two-episode filming block for Lallybroch/The Watch, he'd have had a whole month between that scene and the first scenes at Wentworth.  That's just about how long Jamie was living on the run and then imprisoned.  I'm expecting to see a visible difference in Sam's body vs. the bulked-up white Adonis we saw in the water.  I expect to see a much leaner man.

 

Yeah, this is me focusing on something nice so as to not have to think about the Mac truck full of OMG that is bearing down on us.

Edited May 12, 2015 by WatchrTina

[kieyra]

On the podcast RDM says the breast milking scene was the first thing they received real pushback on (from the network, I guess). 

Edited May 12, 2015 by kieyra

[chocolatetruffle]

...Yeah, this is me focusing on something nice so as to not have to think about the Mac truck full of OMG that is bearing down on us.

 

Bwaaa haahaaaa!!  I almost did a spit-take of my mouth full of coffee when I read this!  Thanks for the moment of morning hilarity.

[AD55]

I like when the show does slice of life stuff or otherwise show the realities of the time period. It's one of my favorite things about the books: they never romanticize the past or gloss over the hardships. So I liked the inclusion of Jenny's 18th century pumping method too.

 

I like that, too. As someone who has given birth and also rides horses, I can say that while I think it would be very uncomfortable to ride so soon after giving birth, it wouldn't be so painful that you couldn't do it if necessary. It could just be that I'm a fast healer -- I was only uncomfortable the first day -- but I assume Jenny is, too.

 

I'm reposting a speculation I have about what Sam was up to during the filming of this Sam-free episode.  I think Sam worked out with weights daily right up to the day of the nekkid-in-the-water scene from the "Lallybroch" episode.  After that I think he was told to switch back to he pre-Outlander work-out mode (he was a triathlete, ye ken.)  I think he immediately stopped lifting, cut his intake of calories, and started running more.  If they shot the scene in the water early in the filming of the two-episode filming block for Lallybroch/The Watch, he'd have had a whole month between that scene and the first scenes at Wentworth.  That's just about how long Jamie was living on the run and then imprisoned.  I'm expecting to see a visible difference in Sam's body vs. the bulked-up white Adonis we saw in the water.  I expect to see a much leaner man.

 

Yeah, this is me focusing on something nice so as to not have to think about the Mac truck full of OMG that is bearing down on us.

 

I don't like to comment on the actors' bodies, but since how much Sam works out is a matter of choice or something demanded by the show runners, I will say that I hated Sam's body at the mill. I should probably post this in the unpopular opinion thread, but I thought he looked muscle bound, not to mention the continuity issue. I'm just not a fan of the big neck look. It was also anachronistic, not that anybody in TV or movies worries about that when it comes to body sculpting. I suppose Sam's body at the wedding probably was as well, but at least it was somewhat believable that a person who is that active would look nice with his clothes off. That said, I live in a place where there are a lot of farms owned by hard-working folks. Few of them have bodies like TV Jamie's.

[nodorothyparker]

So Tobias Menzies flogging the snake so his character can rape another character is fine, but a breast being used for its actual purpose albeit one not everyone considers sexy is a problem? Sure, that makes perfect sense.

[AD55]

So Tobias Menzies flogging the snake so his character can rape another character is fine, but a breast being used for its actual purpose albeit one not everyone considers sexy is a problem? Sure, that makes perfect sense.

This. In fact, I even wonder if the fact that Jenny expressing milk was not sexualized is the problem for the people who decided to cut that scene from the Canadian version. They're supposed to be just for sex, dammit. We don't want to know they have a use other than to cause sexual arousal. 

[Hybiscus]

I like that, too. As someone who has given birth and also rides horses, I can say that while I think it would be very uncomfortable to ride so soon after giving birth, it wouldn't be so painful that you couldn't do it if necessary. It could just be that I'm a fast healer -- I was only uncomfortable the first day -- but I assume Jenny is, too.

 

 

I don't like to comment on the actors' bodies, but since how much Sam works out is a matter of choice or something demanded by the show runners, I will say that I hated Sam's body at the mill. I should probably post this in the unpopular opinion thread, but I thought he looked muscle bound, not to mention the continuity issue. I'm just not a fan of the big neck look. It was also anachronistic, not that anybody in TV or movies worries about that when it comes to body sculpting. I suppose Sam's body at the wedding probably was as well, but at least it was somewhat believable that a person who is that active would look nice with his clothes off. That said, I live in a place where there are a lot of farms owned by hard-working folks. Few of them have bodies like TV Jamie's.

In his podcast, Ron D. Moore said they actually researched whether or not a woman who'd given birth three days prior could ride a horse.

 

As for Sam, he bulked up for the show, because Jamie is described that way.  He gained nearly 30 lbs of body mass.  I believe he said at some point he stopped the weights and wen on the Paleo (?) diet to lose the weight.  Those who saw him at Comic Con said he was quite big, but when they saw him during the big media push prior to season 1B airing, he had changed quite a bit.  His natural body weight is fairly slender.  (No, I am not obsessed.  ;D)

[WatchrTina]

I have a hunch that the Canadian network is going to get a HUGE amount of grief for cutting the milk-expressing scene.  And if La Leche League hears about it, heaven help them.  Those ladies are militant!  I'm betting the hunt for a scapegoat is happening even now.

[AheadofStraight]

They've already said it was a "mistake" and they are re-airing it in full. 

[AD55]

As for Sam, he bulked up for the show, because Jamie is described that way.  He gained nearly 30 lbs of body mass.  I believe he said at some point he stopped the weights and wen on the Paleo (?) diet to lose the weight.  Those who saw him at Comic Con said he was quite big, but when they saw him during the big media push prior to season 1B airing, he had changed quite a bit.  His natural body weight is fairly slender.  (No, I am not obsessed.  ;D)

 

I read that, too, but there's a difference between fit/muscular and muscle bound. DG prides herself on historical accuracy, but if she suggested that Jamie had the same physique as someone who spends hours a day at a gym, she's full of it.  I thought Sam looked fine in the wedding scene, though probably still more bulked up than even the most sculpted eighteenth-century man would have been. 

 

Clearly, I am not obsessed either.

 

ETA. It's ridiculous that I'm fixated on this one thing since there's very little about Jamie Frasier that is remotely realistic. He's a figure of fantasy and that's fine by me. My particular fantasy just doesn't run to bulging pecs and triceps.

Edited May 13, 2015 by AD55

[Pestilentia]

It makes complete sense to me that they designed his lifting program around the mill scene because his (underwater) legs were sorely lacking if balance was at all a goal and I'm of the opinion that it was not. With that minotaur neck and traps he needed far thicker legs- hockey legs as they call 'em. Not the lithe, slim legs we caught a glimpse of as the wind blew up his shirt.

But yes, I agree that he was completely overdone and too thick up top.

 

What can I say, I'm a leg girl... #shallowend #balanceiskey #wasdisappointed

[Hybiscus]

Not to get off topic--ok, it is, but this will be the last I say on it: many years ago when I was working with a trainer, she told me that the arms and upper body respond much more quickly to weigh training than legs/lower body. It's why men tend to concentrate on the upper body more than legs. Instant gratification, baby!

[WatchrTina]

 

DG prides herself on historical accuracy, but if she suggested that Jamie had the same physique as someone who spends hours a day at a gym, she's full of it.

Ah, you can't blame DG for this one.  She defended Sam when he was first cast, saying his lean, tri-athelic physique was exactly how Jamie was described in the book -- long and lean.  I'm pretty sure the producers decision to ask Sam to bulk up was based on their own bias about what the "King of Men" should look like -- that and their reaction to the the hue and cry from fans who though Chris Helmsworth in "Thor" mode was the physical model for JAMMF.  And after all, this is STARZ  -- they like a bit of beefcake on that network.    

 

I wonder if Sam will bulk back up for Season 2 and then stop after that so that he looks markedly different in Season 3 when he has to "age" 20 years?  That really might help the illusion.  And I rather expect that it will be a relief to him not to have to carry around that extra 30 lbs of muscle.  It must be really hard work to maintain that.

Edited May 13, 2015 by WatchrTina

[mledawn]

As my husband jokes about skinny legs (we're in southern Ontario): "You wear pants 9 months of the year, anyway".

[Cirien]

When Claire and Murtaugh got to the coast, what did Murtaugh say? Something like "If you look far enough, you can see the Americas"? Did they call it the Americas at that point? Why didn't he call it "the colonies"? Or would a Scotsman be more likely to refuse to acknowledge Britain's conquest of other lands? Whatever, it just feels weird to hear them call it something that sounds more modern when we (here in the USA) wouldn't have started the revolution yet. By the same token, I fully expect Claire to make a blunder and call it "the United States" at some point only to have people say, "huh"?

The Scots had tried to establish their own empire. See the Darien Scheme- it bankrupted them and thus the Act of Union was born. (hugely simplified I know).

[mizkat]

Late to the party--again--I just saw this ep and it was my least favorite of the whole series. I liked the first third, hated the singing and dancing (is that really in the book?) and missed Sam/Jamie. It would have been nice to catch a glimpse of him (or a bit o'montage) hiding during the day and riding at night. I did love Murtagh and Claire when they weren't singing and dancing. The whole set up for that didn't make much sense to me and went on too long. 

 

Add me to the list of folks who didn't mind the breast feeding scene. I think things like showing bodily functions (or referencing them) make the characters more real. 

 

But yes, I agree that he was completely overdone and too thick up top.

 

Same. Plus maintaining that over the long term is super hard--my son is a body builder and could only bulk up for short periods of time before it drove him nuts. Now he's more proportional, but his legs are still on the thin side compared to the upper body. He does leg days but hates them. So I get distracted when I see Sam in interviews and then see him all bulked up because I know a bit about the process and IMO it's unnecessary--I think a leaner look is more suited to Sam's version of Jamie. 

 

Anyway, this ep was a miss for me. I might go back and watch Jenny/Claire and Murtagh/Claire (minus dancing/singing). Otherwise, meh. 

[TaurusRose]

Jenny is the baddest badass that ever badassed.

You haven't met Lagertha (Vikings). LOL

 

Laura Donnelly has done an excellent job translating the character from the page and making it clear that Jenny draws her strength from a deep well of love....I teared up at Jenny’s kiss establishing the bond of sisters.

ITA with these observations.

 

Did anyone else think of the Black Knight from Monty Python’s Holy Grail: “You’ve got no arms!” “Come back here I’ll bite your legs off!!”

Uh, no.

 

I always watch the show with closed captioning the first time through...

For whatever reason, my CC seems really dodgy for this series. Half the time it doesn't work at all and I've never had this problem before.

 

I wonder if the non-book readers got the bit about Dougal wanting to marry Claire because she (not Jenny) will inherit the Fraser lands...

Of course, I did. Jamie is the laird. She is his wife. It stands to reason she would inherit his property. If people are having a problem with this pretty simple concept, I have to wonder what else they're doing while supposedly watching the series because it doesn't require rocket science intelligence.

 

I liked the way the episode demonstrated the problem: how do you search for or contact someone who is trying not to be found, when you have no modern means of communication?

I think the answer to this question was aptly demonstrated in the episode. All throughout history people have coped with the problems they faced with the tools available at the time and did not think they were handicapped because they weren't.

 

Jenny wearing pistols is so very badass. Jenny drawing those pistols simultaneously, is even more badass.

Agreed.

 

Did anyone else think that the fake Sassenach looked a lot like Yara Greyjoy from Game of Thrones?

She looked familiar, but I have no idea where I might have seen her. I watch a lot of stuff with International casts.

 

I can't wait for the day when women's bodies become acceptable things in the public eye. I especially can't wait for breastfeeding to stop being sexualized, or worse, likened to pissing and shitting.

Huh. I don't care about women breastfeeding their babies, but I don't want to see someone yanking out their tit to feed their baby in my presence. I just don't. It has nothing to do with the activity being "sexualized," it has everything to do with having some propriety and etiquette. If it's done discreetly fine, if not please consider going somewhere with some privacy. Maybe not a popular opinion, but it's mine. *shrugs*

[Kim0820]

On 5/10/2015 at 12:16 PM, TidalCreek said:

When Claire and Murtaugh got to the coast, what did Murtaugh say? Something like "If you look far enough, you can see the Americas"? Did they call it the Americas at that point? Why didn't he call it "the colonies"? Or would a Scotsman be more likely to refuse to acknowledge Britain's conquest of other lands? Whatever, it just feels weird to hear them call it something that sounds more modern when we (here in the USA) wouldn't have started the revolution yet. By the same token, I fully expect Claire to make a blunder and call it "the United States" at some point only to have people say, "huh"?

It would be fun to see Claire tell Jamie about the U.S., knowing that in 40 years or so, the English will lose their colonies there.  And that they won't always rule the world 🙂

On 4/17/2016 at 6:10 PM, taurusrose said:

 

Of course, I did. Jamie is the laird. She is his wife. It stands to reason she would inherit his property. If people are having a problem with this pretty simple concept, I have to wonder what else they're doing while supposedly watching the series because it doesn't require rocket science intelligence.

 

It's very important to the family that the land stay with them - the Frasers have had it for hundreds of years.  In English law at least (yes Ned, I know the Scottish laws could be different) but the attitude towards Lallybroch seems similar - there are provisions for the widow to be taken care of, have an income, or a life estate, but the land stays in the family. It could be entailed on the next male heir.  It would ultimately go to Claire's son with Jamie if they had one.