Spoilers and Spoiler Speculation: Benchmarking

[funnygirl]

I just think it would be so lame if Derek does end up dying, if anything else because with the anvils leading up to this episode and the extra-hyped promo suggesting that "this is the episode America will never forget", TPTB aren't being subtle at all. They seem to be delivering Derek's fate on a silver platter, unless there is a twist and he doesn't die. Which I'm hoping, because even if Patrick is done I don't want Derek to go out like that. 

Edited April 20, 2015 by funnygirl

[AnitaM86]

I just think it would be so lame if Derek does end up dying,

I shall repeat: the result will end up being disappointing, whatever it is. The hype is so big, with so much speculation, that the ending will be disappointing to some for Derek not dying or for Derek dying. 

 

I still believe he won't and only focus on the fact that PD will be more than 30 seconds in this episode. 

[Greysaddict]

AND I'm grasping at straws again. I know, I know.

 

The sides have the hospital (not GSM) looking for the neurosurgeon who is at a family function. Derek has promised Meredith that he would be back, and in the promo, promises the little girl he doesn't let people die. What if Derek steps in for the missing neurosurgeon, does the surgery, and in the meantime his SUV is stolen (there's another accident with an SUV, head-on collision) and that guy with Derek's phone and ID is the brain dead guy in the sides...and Meredith goes to identify the body and it's not Derek?

i feel your pain!  I am internally making up scenarios also.  However, as windsprints said...I'd be surprised if the "neurosurgeon" from the sides is even actually a neurosurgeon considering how big and important this episode is supposed to be.  

 

Although, I don't remember if it was here or on twitter, but if Derek is actually suffering from some neurological condition (no brain activitiy or other), I can defintely see Amelia being the one to "save" him.  Of course in the real world she would never be able to operate on her brother but when does Grey's ever follow real hospital protocol?  This would at least be one explanation of why we had to sit through multiple episodes to learn how "great" she is.  

[BoaGreys]

On another board a fan imagined a potential script for episode 21, based on the sides and the promo
- Derek takes the ferry with his car to go to the airport
- After the ferry, on the road, he witnesses the car crash and he rescues 2 teenagers and a mother and her daughter (a car explodes)
- The paramedics and the firemen come. They congratulate Derek and tell him to go home
- Derek wants to go home to surprise Meredith (“I’ll come back before you know”) but he has a head-on collision with a SUV.
- He’s brought in the same hospital as the people he rescued (Toby, ER doctor, freaks out because they have no room anymore).
- They don’t know who is Derek (John Doe). He tries to say his name but he’s not able to talk
- No time for a CT. He goes to the OR just after a ultrasound of the abdomen
- During the surgery, the surgeons realize he has an epidural bleed and they page the neuro (she’s at a family function and she said she’ll be there in 30 minutes.)
- They understand who is their patient and that he’s the hero of the day
- At the dreamhouse, cops tell Meredith her husband had an accident. They ask if she could come with them at the hospital.
- At the hospital, the bleeding can’t be stopped
- When Meredith arrives, doctors tell her Derek’s shown no sign of brain activity for hours.
- When a doctor comes to offer his condolences to Meredith (I want to tell you how sorry I am for your loss. He was an extraordinary man), she looks at him so cold and angry

[LakeLover]

Unfortunately, I think that scenario is the most likely. At this point I'm preparing myself for the worst and hoping for the best. But common sense tells me my hope is rather futile.

[windsprints]

Other than the first 2 bullet points the others are directly from the promo and the sides.

 

I think there should be some press coverage and interviews. I'm sure there will be on Friday but I think we'll see some leading up to Thursday. Maybe there will be some clues to what happens beyond this episode. Hopefully there will be some spoilers for all the other characters on the show.

 

I shall repeat: the result will end up being disappointing, whatever it is.

You're right. There's so much hype that its bound to be a letdown. I'm not referrring to die/not die but to how well the episode is done.

Edited April 20, 2015 by windsprints

[AnitaM86]

I'm sure there will be on Friday but I think we'll see some leading up to Thursday.

I agree. I think we will see some on Wed., another couple on Thu. and massive on Fri., pending Derek's diagnosis/result/whatever.

 

You're right. There's so much hype that its bound to be a letdown. I'm not referrring to die/not die but to how well the episode is done.

 

You know what's the bad part? SR tends to write really good episodes (ignore the musical), so I would expect at least a somewhat decent one but the hype...I find myself being very cynical about it. Maybe the Derek/Meredith parts will be well written and the whole hospital crap will be same old same old but I don't expect the revival of GA with this episode. 

[Tuleh2]

 

SR tends to write really good episodes (ignore the musical), so I would expect at least a somewhat decent one but the hype...I find myself being very cynical about it.

Shonda writing it is one of the big reasons I think Derek is dying: so she can do all the interviews and explain why "she" wrote it the way she did. (I hope someone asks her why she couldn't just leave Derek in DC.) It may be a small - very small - mark of respect to Derek/PD.

 

That said, I don't expect a good story. Killing him in a car crash is trite (and in poor taste, given PD's love of racing?), even for Shonda.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Tuleh2

[Greysaddict]

Shonda writing it is one of the big reasons I think Derek is dying: so she can do all the interviews and explain why "she" wrote it the way she did. (I hope someone asks her why she couldn't just leave Derek in DC.) 

 

honestly if Derek does die, Shonda is going to be credited for pulling off the most suprising character death in recent history (it was obviously easier back before social media).  I think probably only The Good Wife had a similar "shocking" death.  This is the single biggest thing that makes me lean towards Derek dying (but I still have no idea which way this is going to go)

Edited April 20, 2015 by Greysaddict

[Deanie87]

I am curious whether this Derek drama was planned from the start. I'm leaning toward no. Didn't Shonda tweet at some point about doing rewrites? This season never flowed for me because of all the character-centric episodes, but the show has felt more random than normal since the Herman storyline ended. Even if something changed with PD, however, he doesn't write the show. Decent writers could rework storylines without leaving half the cast floundering.

I have thought that something was going on behind the scenes since early in the season. More than one storyline was publicized in interviews and then dropped or "concluded" awkwardly (it was implied that the transgender story would be a longer arc, the Board issue, Alex/Mer/Jo triangle and Callie's work with veterans to name a few.). Shonda basically confirmed that the Alex and Jo stuff got dropped because of unexpected behind the scenes issues.

I don't think that it all had to do with PD, because there were other factors going on, but I wouldn't be surprised if additional behind the scenes contract negotiations altered storylines. It would certainly explain the sudden need for Amelia to be front and center and a super-hero neurosurgeon and it would explain why Meredith's circle of support became so important. Not to mention the seeming constant use of flashbacks. They also seem to be filming very close to airtime which you would think wouldn't be necessary given the very early hiatus the show had after episode 8. So I think things happened somewhere along the line and things needed to be re-worked. Not just with PD but maybe Sarah Drew, Geena Davis, plus random non-actor things. I just wish that they had dealt with it all better, since most of the actor stuff couldn't have been a complete shock. I agree that this season has been very disjointed and incohesive, with plot taking precedence over character even more than usual.

YMMV but the show fizzles a little more every season and the magic left the building years ago. There are still many character that will remain and their fans will watch next season. I thought earlier that MerDer and Meredith fans would as well but that suggestion was met with a resounding no.

I agree that every departure lessens the show a little, but I am surprised at how well it does in the ratings still. I believe that it is a show that people watch out of habit and nothing much is going to change that. But I still believe that they are going to go with a coma for Derek, and perhaps they aren't yet sure what is going to happen with him next season. As soapy as it is, that seems the smartest move to make unless Dempsey has made it clear that he has no wish to return ever (which I don't think is the case). The question remains, though, what will Meredith do next season if Derek is in a coma?

[maasa]

honestly if Derek does die, Shonda is going to be credited for pulling off the most suprising character death in recent history (it was obviously easier back before social media).  I think probably only The Good Wife had a similar "shocking" death.

Except its been being discussed all over the internet for a couple of weeks so not really all that shocking, nothing like The Good Wife. I'm sure you are right and Shonda will get applauded as usual. 

The question remains, though, what will Meredith do next season if Derek is in a coma?

Probably move in with Alex and make me stop watching. Next season Alex can be her nanny to followup this awful season of being her person.

It would certainly explain the sudden need for Amelia to be front and center and a super-hero neurosurgeon and it would explain why Meredith's circle of support became so important. Not to mention the seeming constant use of flashbacks. They also seem to be filming very close to airtime which you would think wouldn't be necessary given the very early hiatus the show had after episode 8. So I think things happened somewhere along the line and things needed to be re-worked. Not just with PD but maybe Sarah Drew, Geena Davis, plus random non-actor things. I just wish that they had dealt with it all better, since most of the actor stuff couldn't have been a complete shock

Totally agree with you.

[funnygirl]

 

So I think things happened somewhere along the line and things needed to be re-worked.

I also think Jesse getting hurt at that celebrity basketball game sidelined him on the show. He probably was unable to be standing and walking around all that much, which might explain why the last few eps we've seen him in it's been one or two scenes and he's sitting down.

[Tuleh2]

 

So I think things happened somewhere along the line and things needed to be re-worked. Not just with PD but maybe Sarah Drew, Geena Davis, plus random non-actor things.

I think one of those things was ABC requesting 2 additional episodes. It sounds as though PD was contracted through what would have been the end of filming for S11, but then ABC added 2 episodes. In the sides, they're now bringing in a new batch of interns (facepalm) in 11.23. It's like they're rebooting at the end of the season. (Not sure how you create a season-ending "cliffhanger" out of that.)

 

Also, don't they have new boots-on-the-ground showrunners/producers this year? (They've previously been able to wrap 24 episodes earlier than they will be this year.) I wouldn't be surprised if the sloppiness of S11 is an symptom of Shonda being spread so thin (yet retaining so much control) over so many shows.

[Tuleh2]

 

I agree that every departure lessens the show a little, but I am surprised at how well it does in the ratings still.

I think GA - perhaps more than any other network show - has benefited from the introduction of Netflix, Hulu, etc. which allows it to keep attracting new viewers after the old ones drop away.

[Greysaddict]

Except its been being discussed all over the internet for a couple of weeks so not really all that shocking, nothing like The Good Wife. I'm sure you are right and Shonda will get applauded as usual. 

 

 

Well yes, its all over social media and the TV press sites, but that doesn't even come close to representing the general population. For example, roughly 8 million people watch GA and only 1.5 million people follow Grey's official account on twitter.  There are obviously other ways to read entertainment news that twitter, but still a majority of the viewers probably have no idea what is happening for 11x21.

 

 

I have thought that something was going on behind the scenes since early in the season. More than one storyline was publicized in interviews and then dropped or "concluded" awkwardly (it was implied that the transgender story would be a longer arc, the Board issue, Alex/Mer/Jo triangle and Callie's work with veterans to name a few.). Shonda basically confirmed that the Alex and Jo stuff got dropped because of unexpected behind the scenes issues.

 

I agree 100%, there has to be a ton going on behind the scenes that impacted the production and story arcs this season.  It is way too disjointed...unfortunately I don't think we'll ever know the extent to what happened.  I completely forgot the board storyline was even this season since it was totally dropped.  I mean, I know everyone hates the board as a plot device but they haven't even mentioned the board/owning the hospital since Bailey won the seat.  

 

I think one of those things was ABC requesting 2 additional episodes. It sounds as though PD was contracted through what would have been the end of filming for S11, but then ABC added 2 episodes. In the sides, they're now bringing in a new batch of interns (facepalm) in 11.23. It's like they're rebooting at the end of the season. (Not sure how you create a season-ending "cliffhanger" out of that.)

 

I said this in another thread (PD i think?), that we could all be worrying about Derek dying for no reason and perhaps the only reason he is done filming for this year is because they agreed/promised he's be done with his season commitments by mid april.  I don't know if this is what made the season so disjointed, because as you said they should have been able to finish 24 episodes by the end of this month.  

 

Also, didn't Kevin McKidd say they were going to have a quiet finale?  Maybe thats because some characters will die before 11x24 and we'll get a new set of iterns to re-boot the show?

[AnitaM86]

Also, didn't Kevin McKidd say they were going to have a quiet finale?  

He said the show should have a quiet finale, not that it was going to have one. It was a speculation, since the EW article also speculated kidnappings and whatever else. If Derek does die, there might be a quiet finale but IDK. Last season was a quiet finale.

 

I think one of those things was ABC requesting 2 additional episodes. It sounds as though PD was contracted through what would have been the end of filming for S11, but then ABC added 2 episodes.

Oh right! Good catch. So in original terms, GA was set to end next week. Makes sense to now have the catastrophe episode. I found it odd that they hadn't ordered the 24 as usual. Wonder why they added the extra two.

 

Except its been being discussed all over the internet for a couple of weeks so not really all that shocking, nothing like The Good Wife. I'm sure you are right and Shonda will get applauded as usual.

Exactly. No one had any clue about Will's death (which I'm still not over) until it actually happened. In this case, everyone is sort of expecting it.

 

I also think Jesse getting hurt at that celebrity basketball game sidelined him on the show.

 

 

I am a horrible and forgetful human as for four seconds I had no idea who Jesse was and now find that I didn't even noticed he hasn't been that much on the show anymore. Oh well.

 

I think GA - perhaps more than any other network show - has benefited from the introduction of Netflix, Hulu, etc. which allows it to keep attracting new viewers after the old ones drop away.

True. However, this new batch of fans are more technological, which means that many of the speculation online of Derek's pending fate maybe coming from them as well. So, they may be very aware of how this will end and may not give it a shot at the end or already have given it. It can go both ways.

 

Also, don't they have new boots-on-the-ground showrunners/producers this year?

Many new writers started last season and the showrunners are people that have been for a long time on the show (it's Stacy McKee). I think the sloppiness may just be that: sloppiness and not new writers with no idea of how the show is/works.

[windsprints]

I think one of those things was ABC requesting 2 additional episodes. It sounds as though PD was contracted through what would have been the end of filming for S11, but then ABC added 2 episodes.

 

Oh right! Good catch. So in original terms, GA was set to end next week. Makes sense to now have the catastrophe episode. I found it odd that they hadn't ordered the 24 as usual. Wonder why they added the extra two.

 

I know they added the 2 back in Oct. but Grey's always has had 24. I thought everything starts out with the 22 (standard) then more gets ordered. IDK but the 2 add-ons seemed more of them being formally ordered then them being unexpected. If Grey's didn't have 24 for all these seasons it would be different. They've always completed the 24 prior to May so this year will only be a few days over (sides have 23 finishing on 4/24). I just can't see the extra 2 that were ordered in Oct. causing dropped storylines and all reworking. If anything the 2 extra hours should have let them keep, not drop, storylines.

[Tuleh2]

IIRC, the original comment that started this discussion about "rewriting" because of BTS stuff mentioned that this happens "all the time." What if the real reason that this season has been so lame is just that 1) the show is old and every plot device has been used at least three times, 2) the writers are completely out of juice and they need new ones (but Shonda "likes" her existing writers); and 3) Shonda seems to be able to get away with putting ANYTHING on the air at this point, so why worry about it?

 

I don't think we should be looking to blame this season on ANY of the actors. They're miracle workers*, as far as I'm concerned.

 

* Except CS. She needs to GO AWAY. NOW.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Tuleh2

[photo fox]

Well yes, its all over social media and the TV press sites, but that doesn't even come close to representing the general population. For example, roughly 8 million people watch GA and only 1.5 million people follow Grey's official account on twitter.  There are obviously other ways to read entertainment news that twitter, but still a majority of the viewers probably have no idea what is happening for 11x21.

I get what you're saying, and I agree that casual fans won't have any idea of the details of what is going to happen. But last week's episode was full of anvils that something is potentially happening/has happened to Derek. A plane went down, Derek didn't show up in D.C., and then the police show up at Meredith's door. And that's not even counting the more "subtle" things like all the flashbacks and Amelia's "you've never lost the man you love" statement. So IF something major happens to Derek (which I think is still a big "if"), I don't think even a casual fan will be surprised.

Compared to the completely out-of-left-field death of Will on The Good Wife, where no one - NO ONE - in the public knew it was coming, or even had an inkling that Josh Charles was thinking of leaving the show. I was on Twitter that night, and TGW fans were collectively gasping for air.

[Eolivet]

I think GA - perhaps more than any other network show - has benefited from the introduction of Netflix, Hulu, etc. which allows it to keep attracting new viewers after the old ones drop away.

 

I disagree with this, though I have only anecdotal evidence. I can't remember the last time someone said "I'm going to check out Grey's Anatomy and see what all the fuss is about!" Because there is no fuss -- it's an 11 year-old show. It hasn't been "buzzworthy" in years. I think its ratings are the result of a small, but dedicated group of extremely loyal fans -- and any declines are just loyal fans dropping off, not being replaced by new ones. I'm struggling to imagine someone bingewatching all 11 seasons on whatever platform and then bothering to watch the show live. Or even catching up on last season and then bothering to watch the show live. The only people watching the show live (ish), in my opinion, are those who have been watching the show live (ish) for years, out of love, obligation, morbid curiosity or a combination of all three.

 

This whole Derek speculation reaffirms my belief that I think all actor exits should be announced, and leave it to the creator/writer to come up with how the characters leave. Shocking exits are not always (and in fact are almost never) good. In this era where audiences are eroding and fanbase loyalty is important, fans don't like surprises. The short-term buzz isn't worth the long-term irritation. Imagine how much easier this would be if we knew for sure if Dempsey was leaving or not, and the question was just how.

 

I just hate feeling like Charlie Brown, with the show creator as Lucy, and a favorite character as the proverbial football.

[Tuleh2]

 

I disagree with this, though I have only anecdotal evidence.

You make some good points, and my evidence is only anecdotal too, Eolivet. It's tweens/teenagers. I follow some of the actors' Twitter feeds and there are lots of kids watching the show who were only toddlers when it started. (They squee over EP and PD and wish they were THEIR PARENTS... Ha! that's gotta make the actors feel good, huh?) They do bingewatch and if they get hooked (as we did), then they tune in.

 

 

I just hate feeling like Charlie Brown, with the show creator as Lucy, and a favorite character as the proverbial football.

Love this. But this time, if she takes away my PD football, I will NEVER play with her again.

[maasa]

fans don't like surprises

I do not agree at all. The most popular shows on tv recently are the ones with the OMG and surprising moments. Many fans go to great lengths not be spoiled because they want the element of surprise. If you follow a few of the TV journalists on twitter they've often discussed reader/fan reaction to spoilers of any kind. I do understand there are shippers that would like to know but I do not view this as an opinion of the masses. I do think Shonda gets that her shipper fanbases like to be reassured as its happened constantly over the years. The fact that she hasn't said a single peep has added to my thinking that Derek isn't long for the world.

[AnitaM86]

I'm struggling to imagine someone bingewatching all 11 seasons on whatever platform and then bothering to watch the show live.

 

 

I was the same a few years back until I realize I was doing a similar thing with other shows, so I stopped really finding this unbelievable and just letting it be. Could someone with free time, binge watch 11 seasons? Sure. There are people with not much to do and they will watch it. I find the same problem as Tuleh2 does of finding a bunch of, what I assume to be teenagers because adults don't write or spell like that, who I doubt have watched live for long. I don't believe this is a large quantity of people that could sustain or improve the ratings of the show (especially with the fact that you can watch in non Nielsen ways) but it's not far from the new reality of TV viewing. 

 

Hell, for Christmas break I rewatched most of The Good Wife. I stay quiet now. 

 

Shocking exits are not always (and in fact are almost never) good. In this era where audiences are eroding and fanbase loyalty is important, fans don't like surprises.

This is not necessarily true. The element of surprise can always cause a bust in ratings or curious people that dropped the show, check in again to see how they'll deal with x's death (probably Derek's could cause such an action) and maybe stick to the show again. Others might dropped out completely at the top of the announcement. My personal opinion is what you said: I am no good with surprises and would like to know beforehand (hell, I'm a total spoiler whore) but many aren't like that. It's quite a personal choice. 

 

(They squee over EP and PD and wish they were THEIR PARENTS... Ha! that's gotta make the actors feel good, huh?)

I cannot count the levels of nauseous I get when I read this. No clue what the purpose of writing DAD and MOM is. Disturbing.

 

The fact that she hasn't said a single peep has added to my thinking that Derek isn't long for the world.

 

To be fair to Shonda (shocking), she rarely says much about Derek. This isn't new and frankly, there isn't an official chatter about it, other than Twitter and forums like this one. I do find it odd as well but considering how she is, I'm not finding this that surprising. 

[LakeLover]

 

To be fair to Shonda (shocking), she rarely says much about Derek. This isn't new and frankly, there isn't an official chatter about it, other than Twitter and forums like this one. I do find it odd as well but considering how she is, I'm not finding this that surprising. 

 

 

Shonda spoiled a death before the plane crash at the end of season 8: http://www.tvfanatic.com/2012/04/greys-anatomy-spoiler-major-death-to-come/

 

She also says she could not kill some characters, and my belief is that those characters are/were Meredith, Cristina, and Bailey.

Edited April 20, 2015 by LakeLover

[JayCeeJ]

 

She also says she could not kill some characters, and my belief is that those characters are/were Meredith, Cristina, and Bailey.

Agreed. SR once said that in her original draft of the shooting, Bailey got shot. But she couldn't stand to hurt Bailey, so she changed it. So all the main characters who got shot were men: Derek, Alex, and Owen -- and we didn't get to see aftermath for any of them.

 

I'm a proud feminist, but I will never understand Shonda's ideas about women and the men in their lives.

[LakeLover]

Agreed. SR once said that in her original draft of the shooting, Bailey got shot. But she couldn't stand to hurt Bailey, so she changed it. So all the main characters who got shot were men: Derek, Alex, and Owen -- and we didn't get to see aftermath for any of them.

 

I'm a proud feminist, but I will never understand Shonda's ideas about women and the men in their lives.

 

It's odd, isn't it? I don't think she gets real, adult, romantic relationships. Patrick and Ellen both thought the relationship (and of course, to Shonda it's THE relationship) between Meredith and Cristina was unhealthy in the context of a marriage. But that's how she rolls.

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

On another board a fan imagined a potential script for episode 21, based on the sides and the promo

- Derek takes the ferry with his car to go to the airport

- After the ferry, on the road, he witnesses the car crash and he rescues 2 teenagers and a mother and her daughter (a car explodes)

- The paramedics and the firemen come. They congratulate Derek and tell him to go home

- Derek wants to go home to surprise Meredith (“I’ll come back before you know”) but he has a head-on collision with a SUV.

- He’s brought in the same hospital as the people he rescued (Toby, ER doctor, freaks out because they have no room anymore).

- They don’t know who is Derek (John Doe). He tries to say his name but he’s not able to talk

- No time for a CT. He goes to the OR just after a ultrasound of the abdomen

- During the surgery, the surgeons realize he has an epidural bleed and they page the neuro (she’s at a family function and she said she’ll be there in 30 minutes.)

- They understand who is their patient and that he’s the hero of the day

- At the dreamhouse, cops tell Meredith her husband had an accident. They ask if she could come with them at the hospital.

- At the hospital, the bleeding can’t be stopped

- When Meredith arrives, doctors tell her Derek’s shown no sign of brain activity for hours.

- When a doctor comes to offer his condolences to Meredith (I want to tell you how sorry I am for your loss. He was an extraordinary man), she looks at him so cold and angry

 

The only thing about this scenario is:  Why would Mere be smiling and looking happy and unworried in the pics and promos as she enters the hospital if she knows that Derek was in an accident and injured enough for the cops to have to come get her?  I'd be freaking out if the cops came to take me to the hospital where my family member was after being in an accident.  And why would she take the kids?  In reality (yes, I realize how far this is from reality), the police would most likely have a cop stay at home with kids that young so they wouldn't see the family member in that condition.  I guess maybe I'm grasping at straws and trying to maintain my grip on that tiny and weak thread of hope I've been dangling from.

[Tuleh2]

 

I'm a proud feminist, but I will never understand Shonda's ideas about women and the men in their lives.

I think she just turns the tables, JayCeeJ. I think she objectifies men the way male writers so often objectify women. That's why so many of her male characters (all, I think, except for IW) have left the show in a box. They're only accessories for the female characters.

 

I suppose she's just thinking "turnabout is fair play," but GA skirts close enough to "relatable" drama (compared to the cartoon-like Scandal and HTGAWM) to make it disturbing to me to see it presented as "feminist." The women may be the more fleshed-out characters, but they still seem to spend most of their time "talking about boys." Just because they're doing it with scalpels in their hands doesn't make it progressive, and I often cringe at the thought of young girls seeing these women as feminist role models.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Tuleh2

[JayCeeJ]

I hate to say it, and I so want to be wrong, but the scenario posted upthread seems very likely to me.

[JayCeeJ]

 

I think she objectifies men the way male writers so often objectify women. That's why so many of her male characters (all, I think, except for IW) have left the show in a box. They're only accessories for the female characters.

Yes, absolutely - the men serve as props for the women. Hence Shonda's oft-stated notion that the show's true love story was always Mer/Cris.* Even the actors have pointed out the unhealthy nature of that relationship. The only time it seemed to shift was in S8-9, when Tony Phelan and Joan Rater (married in real life - no coincidence) were running the show.

 

*Wonder how she'll explain Cris not being there for her person if Der dies?

 

Straying off topic, so I'll stop.

[PrincessTT]

*Wonder how she'll explain Cris not being there for her person if Der dies?

 

Isn't there a time jump between Episodes 21 and 22? If so, they'll probably include a line or two that Meredith went to stay with Cristina for a bit or that Cristina came to Seattle for a few weeks during the time-jump time. 

 

(That's if Derek does actually die) 

Edited April 21, 2015 by PrincessTT

[Greysaddict]

I'm getting increasing more nervous about Derek dying but one thing just popped in my mind. If this really is Derek/Patrick's last season, what a crappy way to leave. I miss the real Dr. Shepherd actually being a doctor.

[MerDerFan4Ever]

It just occurred to me another reason why I don't believe Derek will die. Not sure how many people here (if any) follow the Canadian airing of the show via Twitter. The new episode actually airs in Canada BEFORE it airs in the US. They have chosen to show the episode in Canada the night following the US airing, on previous occassions when they knew there was something big to show. Well. Thursdays episide is still airing before the US episode airs. As a matter of fact, I think it's airing earlier than it even normally does there. Now, I know that the vast majority of fans do not follow the Canadian airing but once it's on Twitter, etc word of what happens spreads like wildfire. Would the show allow this to happen if the episode were sooo huge???? Think of the fans it would piss off! I know, from my perspective, if I find out Derek dies I will not tune in when it airs in the US!

[windsprints]

Would the show allow this to happen if the episode were sooo huge????

 

ABC Studios doesn't control when the networks air the show.

 

If there is a tiny shred of truth to the Post article I think its a given that Derek will be either in a coma or dead by the end of Thursday's episode. I really didn't think it would go there before but now I can believe it.

Edited April 21, 2015 by windsprints

[AnitaM86]

Why would Mere be smiling and looking happy and unworried in the pics and promos as she enters the hospital if she knows that Derek was in an accident and injured enough for the cops to have to come get her?

I thought that was a BTW pic, as EP was smiling to someone on her side (there was a wall on the window) and Zola looked still. I didn't think it was a promo pic.

 

I'm a proud feminist, but I will never understand Shonda's ideas about women and the men in their lives.

Does anyone? 

Edited April 21, 2015 by AnitaM86

[KnitsWithRaceCars]

I thought that was a BTW pic, as EP was smiling to someone on her side (there was a wall on the window) and Zola looked still. I didn't think it was a promo pic.

 

Does anyone? 

 

In the still of the first promo that's in the Promos and Sneak Peeks thread, Mere is smiling, which is why I was thinking that was part of the promo.  I just rewatched it, and I guess it isn't.

 

I'm now in the anger and depression stages of grief over this.

[windsprints]

I didn't really watch PP, but I wonder if Shonda's going to do to Derek what she did to Dell.

I think things may change from the sides but if it stands as is then I don't see it being like Dell. This side (source):

JAMAL, ambulance driver – He pulls up his ambulance to the Hospital and Toby is flummoxed. When it rains, it pours. But they don’t have the room. Make it, what’re we supposed to do with him. Look at the guy. The guy is bloody and battered. Fine, but this isn’t on Toby. John Doe, head-on collision with an SUV.

 

makes is seem like there is a patient that comes in after the others (no room, when it rains it pours).  There are also sides where a paramedic calls him hero and a firefighter tells him to go home and have a drink. I think its possible that as Derek is driving away there is an accident where he gets hit head on and that he is Joshua in these sides:

EDIE – PHYSICIAN, late 30s & DR. COHN – She examines Joshua’s eyes with a penlight. A nurse stands by. What’s your name sir? Can you hear me? Joshua tries to talk but can’t. Edie continues. Pupils are equal and reactive. He’s got flail chest in the right. I need a 36 French tube now. Sir, can you tell me your name? A nurse says that he’s still hypotensive. He could be bleeding in his chest. Hang two units of blood on the infuser. I need a trauma panel. Xray and cross him for four. I’m so sorry..this’ll hurt but we have to do it. She puts a chest tube in. Blood and a gush of air comes out. Joshua groans. That must have hurt. I’m sorry. Can you tell me your name? Can you tell me anything? Dr. Smith joins them. We need to take him straight up. A nurse brings her the tray. As she removes the mask from Joshua’s face he struggles again to speak, but can’t. His pressure is holding, maybe we should get a scan. Too risky. He could bottom out in the scanner. We need to open. Edie moves aside but Joshua grabs her arm. Scared. It’s okay. We’ve got you. It’s all gonna be okay. Joshua closes his eyes, trusting her.

OR. NIGHT – The OR team stands still waiting. And waiting. It’s agonizing. Joshua’s chest is now closed on the table, but the stillness of the OR is eerie. When Edie pops in – Any word? Page him again! When the OR doors slide OPEN, Dr. COHN enters the room, very casual. Thank God…I need this man prepped. The team jumps into action, but it’s frantic and uncontrolled. As Dr. Cohn’s being gowned and gloved, Edie approaches, fuming. You were supposed to be here 20 minutes ago! If you guys had ordered a scan, you would’ve called me sooner. What am I supposed to do about that? He was bleeding into his belly. He was stable. You had the time. Now, I’ve got to work like hell to save this man, thanks to you. Your response time is supposed to be 20 minutes. Not forty-five! We had a freaking chance – He had a chance – Get out of my OR. What…You hear me. Unless you’re going to be cutting into this man’s head, you can get out. Now. Now.

ICU – NIGHT – Dina enters and sees her husband lying in the bed. Turns to Edie. What happened? He arrived with multiple injuries. Hypotensive, flail chest and intra-abdominal bleeding. We stabilized him in the ER. Inserted a chest tube. Transfused him two units. There was no time for a CT, we had to intubate him and get him to the OR. It was there we found he had an epidural bleed. Despite our best efforts…your brother’s shown no sign of brain activity. For how long? Twelve hours. Thank you. I am so sorry. I know that’s useless to you right now, but…I am. Edie starts to cry, Edie doesn’t want to look at her. Leave. Please. Emotional, Edie starts to walk away when she comes face to face with Dr. Cohn. She tells him that it was her job to save him, and she failed. He’s going to die. Because I wasn’t a good enough doctor to keep him alive. She’s right. She did fail. She wasn’t good enough. Edie’s crying slows. She’s stunned by Dr. Cohn’s cutting words. And then he softens. But do you know what tomorrow is? Tomorrow is Thursday. There will be new patients who need to be saved. So learn from this. Better yourself. And next time, you will be good enough. What if she’s not? She will be. How can you know that? Because. You care. That’s how I know. Edie summons a smile, small but grateful, then wipes her tears.

ICU, NIGHT – Dr. Cohn enters, nervous. Sir? Jim turns to see…Dr. Cohn, has appeared out of nowhere. Dr. Cohn looks nervous and mortified and intensely freaked out. Jim just stares at him. Uncomfortable Dr. Cohn clears his throat. Sir, I can’t tell you…how sorry I am for your loss. Your wife was an extraordinary woman. I…it was an honor to..And here he shuts up. Because Jim turns and looks at him so cold and angry.

 

If it plays out like this (and its even Derek, we do not know yet) then I don't think he talks to anyone he knows prior to dying, unlike Dell. I think that a death like Dell's would be extra brutal for fans to watch for Derek so I hope not. ER had Pratt die like that and I was a blubbering mess.

[Greysaddict]

So I'm thinking the episode will go something like this:

 

it opens with "12 hrs ago" (or some flashback time period, I'm actually not sure how much time has passed since he left)- we see Derek leaving the house (maybe getting on the ferry?) and utimately witnesing and being involved in the accident happen.

 

He runs around saving everybody, fire and police show up on the scene and make him go to the hosiptal to be checked out.  Later, maybe at the hospital, he asks them to go tell his wife that he's in the hospital but fine. 

 

Meredith packs up the kids and takes them to see Derek but when she gets there he is crashing.

 

Other than that, I have no idea.

 

ETA: IF this is Derek in the sides posted by windsprints above, and he does in fact have no brain activity, i have a nagging feeling Amelia is going to swoop in to save him, or at least try.  It would help explain her purpose this entire season.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Greysaddict

[funnygirl]

Thanks for the breakdown, windsprints.

 

Man, IF Derek dies and this is how it goes down, how brutal. Of course Shonda would spend most of the hour with Derek being a hero and making us think all is well only to have him get in a car accident on his way home.

The closer it gets to the episode, the more convinced I am that Derek is going to die.

 

But, wait. No brain activity for 12 hours??? Why the hell does it take so long for them to ID him and get ahold of Meredith? Unless Derek's face is unrecognizable, you'd think World Renowned Dr. Derek Shepherd would be recognized by those in the medical field. Dr. Cohn, at least. Even though they come in late, you'd think once there was an ID they'd notify next of kin right away to let them know their loved one was in an accident.

 

I'm superficially annoyed already and I don't even know if this is how the episode is going to play out.

[windsprints]

I'm superficially annoyed already and I don't even know if this is how the episode is going to play out.

 

Try to hold off :) Lots of things can change from the sides. We won't know til it airs, just a couple of more days to go.

[Nobodysfan]

One thing that bugs me is that Rhimes said Jolex storyline or whatever plot they might have planned for has been changed because of  BTS reasons, what other things are happening there?

 

As for now the only one is the status of Dempsey on the show.How does that affect Jolex is a mystery to me and I don´t see a reason why Jolex can´t have storyline and have almost zero scenes.Not that I am a fan but looking at it from the perspective of people who like them this fact might be a punch in the face from Rhimes.

 

 

Also as the show is really cutting down on lighting,green screen is terrible,to send the crew and Dempsey to shoot in Seattle is a valid sign of this being Derek´s final scene on Greys and his adieu.

Edited April 21, 2015 by Season5OwenHuntfan

[pennben]

I kind of love the back and forth about Shonda Rhimes involvement in the show:

 

1.  She has ABANDONED this show.  She doesn't care, it is the forgotten child of all of her shows.  It is being ruined because she doesn't pay attention.

 

2.  Shonda RUINED this show, it's all because of her and what she wants and her thoughts, why can't she just leave well enough alone.

 

Oh, Shonda, she can never win.....makes me giggle.

[Deanie87]

One thing that bugs me is that Rhimes said Jolex storyline or whatever plot they might have planned for has been changed because of BTS reasons, what other things are happening there?

As for now the only one is the status of Dempsey on the show.How does that affect Jolex is a mystery to me and I don´t see a reason why Jolex can´t have storyline and have almost zero scenes.Not that I am a fan but looking at it from the perspective of people who like them this fact might be a punch in the face from Rhimes.

It may not have affected Jolex at all. I imagine that at some point, for whatever reason, the writers had to get from Point A to a different Point B then they originally planned, took a look around at which characters and couples were basically stable (Ben/Bailey, Jo/Alex and Jackson/April) and put them on the back burner to deal with more pressing concerns. April was pregnant so that had to be dealt with, but not much happened with them after that.

Oh, Shonda, she can never win.....makes me giggle

Very true, and I admit that I am guilty of that as well. The same thing goes for characters, either they are pointless and boring or they are getting way too much screen time! Oh well, I'm sure she keeps herself warm and happy by throwing money bundles on the fire in her mansion!

Edited April 21, 2015 by Deanie87

[java23]

I'm confused about the day's timeline. even if 12 hours earlier....

It was Mer stressing all that day, Bailey telling her to freak out at 5 pm..

I thought Derek was going to the airport in the morning to make the DC meeting that day..

but in the latest sneak, in the OR, Derek is on the phone talking about the flight and Bailey is there. Wouldn't Bailey mention that to Mer while she was stressing?

 

Then in the car, you see the dash clock says it is 7:45 pm 

 

Maybe Derek is in head on, and dreams he is saving all those people? reaching for this all to make sense. 

[AnitaM86]

Wouldn't Bailey mention that to Mer while she was stressing?

Maybe this won't make sense but I'll give it a shot:

 

The second SP should be of the day he left. He has the same shirt but without the jacket, where his phone was. Amelia is already in the OR, so I assume Meredith also was but not sure how that can make sense as Derek is still on the road and Amelia already is on the hospital, despite leaving after him. Unless he's driving to Canada but whatever.

 

Telling Meredith that Bailey spoke to Derek hours later that Meredith did, probably wouldn't have made a difference as both had seen/spoken to him with hours of difference on the same day. The scene where Bailey tells Meredith to not freak out, is the following day. 

 

Then in the car, you see the dash clock says it is 7:45 pm

 

It also says the date (March 26th), which if you check his Twitter TL, he posted that pic that day too, so the whole thing just seems that that is date that he shot the scene and the clock in the car was wrong (he posted the pic in the early afternoon). It's impossible to have it be 7:45 PM that bright and have shown in the episode that 5:00 PM was incredibly dark. 

[java23]

All continuity is out the window lately.

The road he is on looks more like Mulholland drive than foresty Seattle. I think I saw the same location on Scorpion last night. 

 

That is my guess, He is driving, gets in head on collision, miraculously rises from the smoky ashes,  and saves those people...dreamlike.  "It's a great day to save lives."

In coma...

winds up on ferry boat floating around and watching over Seattle.

[anna0852]

 

 

I was also thinking about Meredith's future on my Twitter earlier. If Derek dies and they go the grieving widow/single mother direction with her and eventually there's pressure to put her in a relationship, who else can totally picture Shonda bringing back Finn a decade after his relationship with Meredith and having them end up together? Just imagine her defending the relationship: "Finn had lost his wife and Meredith recently lost her husband. That's something he's been through before and he understands her pain, we're exploring their relationship and what it means to put yourself out there again after a trauma like that." UGH.

 

ETA: I just remembered Finn's wife died in a car accident too. If Derek does die I would not be surprised in the least if this happens. Shonda loves her weird symmetry. 

Let us all thank the ever-loving TV gods that Chris O'Donnell is locked into and very busy with NCIS:Los Angeles. I highly doubt he has the time or inclination to return to a show he did few guest spots on nearly a decade ago.

[Greysaddict]

IF this is Derek in the sides posted by windsprints above, and he does in fact have no brain activity, i have a nagging feeling Amelia is going to swoop in to save him, or at least try.  It would help explain her purpose this entire season.

I am totally quoting myself here to add, after seeing that last sneak peak....I think Amelia will operate on Derek (because sure this is GSMH) while Meredith watches and she will say "meredith we're losing him" as he crashes. I havent made up my mind yet as whether he will live or die.

[windsprints]

Finale side (credit: @JustinChambersOnline)

Side summary for 11.24 (SEASON FINALE) - Filming dates: Apr. 23 - May 5
Pastor - [Patient room, night] The Pastor stands between Annie and Marcus, who are in side by side patient beds, holding each other’s hand. There are doctors in lab coats standing around. Pastor says it’s not an impulsive, reckless love that brings them here today. These two people have known that kind of love, they have made families and have known all the joys and pains a family can bring you. They have known love and lost it. This has tempered their hearts, refined them, and strengthened them so that they are ready for something truer and stronger. Annie asks if they can cut to the good part. Pastor asks Marcus if he takes Annie to be his wife for as long as they both shall live. Marcus and Annie are already leaning over their bed rails, kissing.

 

[photo fox]

Catherine and the Chief? It sounds like an older couple.