S01.E05: Crows

[Meredith Quill]

Episode Synopsis:

 

The Act of Supremacy has declared Henry supreme head of the church in England.

[Primetimer]

But which family will end up on top? Stand up if you think it's your family. Not so fast, Boleyns.

Read the story

[Knuckles]

I am loving this show. Yes, it is slow, but it is moving now. Anne Boleyn is already done, though she does not know it, and Cromwell faces Wolsey's fate if he cannot provide grounds for her removal. Everything rides on the whims of the king, including Cromwell's life. Rylance is wonderful as a deeply frightened man, trying to hold steady as everything shifts around him. 

[jjj]

Cromwell has the instincts of an animal in this version of the Tudor court -- so he is a good advisor, and knows when he is in danger.  That was very well done. 

 

Fires were such a threat in these centuries -- no way to combat them once they took hold.  Whitehall Palace, where Henry VIII/Anne Boleyn had their primary residence, had a significant fire near the end of the 1600s, then virtually the entire palace burnt down in 1698, except for the Banqueting House, which still stands today.  I was just reading about the palace for something else, and the way they could try to stop major fires was by blowing up the next section that might burn, so Whitehall Palace was quite a shambles at the end of the 1698 fire (it had over 1000 rooms by then).  I forget what surviving palace they are using to recreate the Whitehall rooms for this series, but they are using a surviving Tudor estate when they are suggesting some of the living spaces. 

[HoodlumSheep]

I zoned out a bit this episode.

Poor puppy Cromwell looked crushed when he was thinking about going to see Jane outside, then Henry showed up :/.

So the former queen is dead.

Cromwell got yelled at. And then pretty much gave Henry the cold shoulder until Henry tried to be all buddy buddy with him again.

So is this the jousting accident that causes Henry to gain weight? It was a jousting accident that caused that, right?

Robed Churchy Mycroft returns after an intel mission on Cromwell apparently. I wonder if Cromwell used his awesome knife skills we saw a few episodes back?

I miss Mary.

Ghost Wolsey pops in for a visit.

Are we going to see Cromwell destroy the hooligans he mentally took note of when they were making fun of the cardinal?

That was a rhetorical question. I don't think I want to be spoiled. I just enjoy seeing Cromwell give verbal smack downs to people.

[sugarbaker design]

So is this the jousting accident that causes Henry to gain weight? It was a jousting accident that caused that, right?

 

 

Well, indirectly, in a very loose way.  The accident caused him to be more sedentary, but I'm sure it didn't cause him to overeat.

[M. Darcy]

 

So is this the jousting accident that causes Henry to gain weight? It was a jousting accident that caused that, right?

It was but I don't think they showed why.  When the horse fell on top of him, it injured his leg and he never recovered from that injury.  He was  physically hindered for the rest of his life.

Edited May 4, 2015 by M. Darcy

[Shopkeeper]

A possibly stupid question, but who was Cromwell talking to in the scene directly after Henry's accident? It was him and another man, seated outside on some steps, and the conversation began with Cromwell saying, "It's not every man who can say that the King of England is his only friend" (paraphrase). The man was blondish and I swear he hasn't appeared in any other scene ever.

[jjj]

Thanks, Shopkeeper, I wondered the same thing -- I even rewound to see if he said a name at the beginning, but no.

Edited May 4, 2015 by jjj

[LuciaMia]

 

So is this the jousting accident that causes Henry to gain

There's a lot of current speculation that that accident gave him a severe concussion with lasting effects. There's a lot of contemporary writing that notes Henry's personality changed after that. He was more moody, angry and suspicious.

[Shopkeeper]

Thanks, Shopkeeper, I wondered the same thing -- I even rewound to see if he said a name at the beginning, but no.

 

I have deduced it was Master Treasurer Fitzwilliam, played by James Larkin. Ok then. I do remember Cromwell shouting for someone - Rafe? - to fetch Fitzwilliam when they thought the king was dead. I think the show in general has done a good job in keeping all these Thomases and Henrys and Janes and lords and dukes straight, but this character seemed to come out of the blue, especially since he's evidently a confidante of Cromwell's.

[Calamity Jane]

It was but I don't think they showed why.  When the horse fell on top of him, it injured his leg and he never recovered from that injury.  He was  physically hindered for the rest of his life.

And in constant pain, right?  I took his ill-tempered outbursts after the accident in this episode to be demonstrating that the fall changed his life in that way, also.  

There's a lot of current speculation that that accident gave him a severe concussion with lasting effects. There's a lot of contemporary writing that notes Henry's personality changed after that. He was more moody, angry and suspicious.

Didn't see this before I responded.  But wasn't this the leg wound that festered and stank and gave him unending pain for the rest of his life, and as you say, turned him into the irascible, unpredictable tyrant we tend to remember him as?  

[LuciaMia]

The pointless cruelty to Katherine was a shame to see. Not letting her daughter visit her when she was dying; the almost celebration by Henry and Ann when she died; his refusal to even look at her final letter.

Edited May 4, 2015 by LuciaMia

[Dirtybubble]

 

Since I haven't read the books I'm going to ask a dumb question:  since next week is the last episode I'm going to assume this series only goes thru til Anne's end?  For some reason I was thinking that it would span the entire career/life of Thomas Cromwell....

[Maire]

Dirtybubble  You are correct.

Hilary Mantel has not published the third book which relates Cromwell's end.

[jjj]

Dirtybubble  You are correct.

Hilary Mantel has not published the third book which relates Cromwell's end.

Yet!  (we hear it is preparation...I hope!)

[VeryNot]

Before the jousting accident, Henry lead a very athletic life, and had to eat a lot to keep up with all his sports. Once incapacitated by his leg injury, he couldn't do his sports any longer, but still ate the same amount of food (also, while it's true Henry was slim and athletic in his youth and when he married Anne, by the time of his jousting accident, he was already getting fat.)

I'm with those who speculate it was the head injury that turned him tyrant. While he was always known to have a temper and could be quite capricious, he was also known for his kindness, sunny nature, and romantic ideals. He WAS awful to Catherine of Aragon, but I think his desperation to have an heir drove his cruelty. It was just a bitter divorce. And I think Henry kept Catherine and Mary away from each other because that's what Anne wanted (and it could be argued it was wise to do so in case they might plot to dispose Henry, but I don't think that was in Kathrine's nature, as she loved England and its people and didn't want to bring war to them). Anne could be QUITE cruel, and in fact was often cruel when it came to Mary. Henry just let love blind him to her faults and motivations (much like his daughter Elizabeth was blinded by her love of Robert Dudley. The Tudors and their love blindness!).

But after the accident, his entire personality changed. Some of it could be attributed to his leg injury, but I don't think that explains everything. His temper went out of control, he became even more paranoid, and he was needlessly cruel and blood thirsty. I think the show might even be hinting at this sudden change in his personality. And spoiler for those who don't know his history with Cromwell -

He had Cromwell, the man who made him rich beyond measure and one of his best advisers executed over Anne of Cleves, of all things.

What I really liked about this episode is it showed just how crucial an heir was to keeping the fragile peace. Had Henry actually died, it's certain England would have plunged back into civil war, with the potential to turn into a war with Spain to put Mary on the throne. It shows Henry wasn't just looking for an heir to suit his ego -- he knew very well that his force of personality kept him on the throne, as the Tudors had a weak claim, and without an heir, the Wars of the Roses could reignite. I also love how panicked Cromwell was, showing just how quickly allies could turn to foes with the death of a king.

Man, I love Tudor history, and have seen/read just about everything I could get my hands on, but this show leaves me breathless and excited, even though I know all the turns in the story. This was SUCH a great episode.

Edited May 5, 2015 by VeryNot

[Dirtybubble]

Still loving this show but wow I did NOT need to see that poor dog lying dead in the courtyard. :(

I'm going to miss this show when it's gone

[jjj]

Man, I love Tudor history, and have seen/read just about everything I could get my hands on, but this show leaves me breathless and excited, even though I know all the turns in the story. This was SUCH a great episode.

Completely agree!  I have read the books and did not want to see this series (how could it possible live up to the books?), but it is splendid.

 

And whimsey98, I also agree that hearing about Princess Charlotte of Cambridge was a great piece of news today! 

[duVerre]

I have read the books, but am very flu-ish today, so the idea of checking it for a few points I didn't understand in "Crows" makes my head swim. Can someone help me out with this?

 

(1)  What is Katharine saying to Cromwell about white silk?

 

(2)  The advice from the European jouster is to relax in the saddle as though just going out to take the air, not to position the lance as a jouster would prematurely and ... to fight one's instincts to survive. Does this simply mean fight the instinct to tense up in the face of possible death? Or am I missing something?

 

Thanks.

[jjj]

Not sure about the white silk, but I think e jousting advice was basically -- relax, and don't tense up.  But survival instinct seems really useful.

[bookcat]

How assured of your sister's hold do you have to be to miss that "I shall profit from this lesson, I assure you" is a threat? Dumb George Boleyn. Cromwell had a bad day with Henry, sure, but he's the guy who fixes whatever the king wants fixing. How do people think he does that? With puppies and cupcakes? 

[Anothermi]

Can someone help me out with this?

........

(2)  The advice from the European jouster is to relax in the saddle as though just going out to take the air, not to position the lance as a jouster would prematurely and ... to fight one's instincts to survive. Does this simply mean fight the instinct to tense up in the face of possible death? Or am I missing something?

 

Yes, that was a little complex, but I took it to mean 1) relax, don't let your mind fixate on what is about to take place or you'll over compensate; and 2) the survival instincts that I am familiar with are the "fight or flight" ones, neither of which would be useful in a situation where you are deliberately placing yourself in the path of danger. The end result of the advice as I understood it would be someone who was relaxed but alert and above all, in control of his emotions so he could focus on the job at hand. 

[ulkis]

I'm with those who speculate it was the head injury that turned him tyrant. While he was always known to have a temper and could be quite capricious, he was also known for his kindness, sunny nature, and romantic ideals. He WAS awful to Catherine of Aragon, but I think his desperation to have an heir drove his cruelty. It was just a bitter divorce. And I think Henry kept Catherine and Mary away from each other because that's what Anne wanted (and it could be argued it was wise to do so in case they might plot to dispose Henry, but I don't think that was in Kathrine's nature, as she loved England and its people and didn't want to bring war to them). Anne could be QUITE cruel, and in fact was often cruel when it came to Mary.

Yes, but I think it also likely he was punishing Katherine and Mary for not bending in to his demands. Plus by the time Katherine was dying Anne had no where near the influence she had used to have.

Edited May 5, 2015 by ulkis

[pasdetrois]

It was interesting to watch the normally repressed, cerebral, dour Cromwell panic and spring into frenzied action at Henry's "death."  And the writers did a great job of helping us see the full universe of what that death would mean, from Cromwell to the return of civil war.

 

I guess Henry's loss of consciousness is a good argument for a concussion or even traumatic brain injury and the resulting personality change. Of course, not having a male heir probably made him frantic and angry too.

 

Random note: Joanne Whalley was once married to Val Kilmer.

[sugarbaker design]

I'm not sure if its obvious in the series but in the books it's apparent that Henry is always calling Cromwell "Crumb", so in spite of Cromwell's talents and contributions the class card almost always comes up.  Of course George Boleyn is going to gloat in front of the blacksmith's son, it's what the landed gentry do.

 

Anne is a pill, but I do enjoy her fool "Mary", she's a hoot.

[Notwisconsin]

As to the jousting accident making Henry VIII a tyrant, it didn't. He was ALWAYS a tyrant. He had his father's top two advisers killed in 1509 and a few relatives to boot later on. He also encouraged Thomas More's going around killing innocent heretics. He was lethal from the word go.

 

As to Woolsey's ghost. It was in the Broadway version, and I was surprised they'd do it here.

Edited May 5, 2015 by Notwisconsin

[ulkis]

As to the jousting accident making Henry VIII a tyrant, it didn't. He was ALWAYS a tyrant. He had his father's top two advisers killed in 1509 and a few relatives to boot later on. He also encouraged Thomas More's going around killing innocent heretics. He was lethal from the word go.

 

"Innocent heretics", from their point-of-view, is kind of an oxymoron. Simply being a heretic meant that you weren't innocent, because you were committing so-called blasphemy.

[Dirtybubble]

How assured of your sister's hold do you have to be to miss that "I shall profit from this lesson, I assure you" is a threat? Dumb George Boleyn. Cromwell had a bad day with Henry, sure, but he's the guy who fixes whatever the king wants fixing. How do people think he does that? With puppies and cupcakes?

That's one of the things I love about this show is how people constantly underestimate Cromwell's intelligence & ability to get things done.

As to the jousting accident making Henry VIII a tyrant, it didn't. He was ALWAYS a tyrant. He had his father's top two advisers killed in 1509 and a few relatives to boot later on. He also encouraged Thomas More's going around killing innocent heretics. He was lethal from the word go.

ITA with you on that point but I wonder if this is making it appear that after the accident he is now an unstable tyrant as was the case I think with flying off the handle at Cromwell.  BTW that scene was beautifully played out!  Any other man would have in Henry's court would have cowarded under that pressure but the way Cromwell kept eye contact with him, never flinching, and the crossing of the wrists--BEAUTIFUL!  That and the scene afterwards with his hand trembling as he reaches for his cup just speaks volumes of the character and the actor's ability.  Gosh ya gotta love talented actors.

[duVerre]

 

Any other man would have in Henry's court would have cowarded under that pressure but the way Cromwell kept eye contact with him, never flinching, and the crossing of the wrists--BEAUTIFUL!  That and the scene afterwards with his hand trembling as he reaches for his cup just speaks volumes

 

Yes, I loved that altercation with Henry. I knew the gesture from the books, but even so, Cromwell suddenly holding his wrists like that had the same effect on me, as it would have (I imagine, anyway) on Henry--something mystical, mystifying and forbidding. How do you answer a thing like that? It weakens you to say "stop doing that! what are you doing, what does that mean?" All you can do is walk away, dumbfounded. 

 

Damien Lewis was terrific. His rage was maniacal, and I particularly like his insistence to Chapuys that "I am not an infant !!!!!!!" And of course, he sounded just like an infant as he screamed it.

 

It's been clear before now that Cromwell has no real friends beyond the king, but now the king has become an unpredictable stranger. And just at the time when he will have to engineer a case against Anne Boleyn, he loses his own sense of himself and his past, due to the unexpected info that his father had intervened for him at the time of the murder. (And of course, he feels vulnerable because he didn't find this out himself. Stephen Gardiner turned it up fairly easily.) It's remarkable to me that he described himself as "exposé." He must feel like a stranger to everybody now, even to his own self, to some degree.

[turbogirlnyc]

Can anyone explain the scene where Anne's fool "gives birth" to a cloth doll/baby and proceeds to stomp on it? At that point Anne had lost the baby. Why would anyone find that act amusing? If it was in the book, I don't remember it at all.

Personally, I've never been keen to the "Henry had a brain injury and became a tyrant" theory. It smacks of revisionist/Tudor history to me. Although I strongly disagree with David Starky on many things, even he calls Henry a tyrant. Sure, the blow to the head may have caused a slight personality change, but nothing as drastic as that.

Edited May 5, 2015 by turbogirlnyc

[LuciaMia]

After seeing Mr. Rochester almost going up in flames in 'Jane Eyre' on top of the scene of Anne's near immolation, I've come to the conclusion that bed curtains are a bad idea.

[Dirtybubble]

 

Can anyone explain the scene where Anne's fool "gives birth" to a cloth doll/baby and proceeds to stomp on it? At that point Anne had lost the baby. Why would anyone find that act amusing?

I did not get that either but honestly that lady freaks me the F out anyway!  She's suppose to be humorous??  Good grief.  I found her to be just spiteful and mean so I figured the stomping on the doll bit was just her being...her.  IDK, I honestly thought maybe I misheard Anne introducing her earlier in the episode to Cromwell. 

[jjj]

Anyone who wants to see a letter from Cromwell can view it here -- on exhibit right now at the British Library: 

http://www.bl.uk/collection-items/thomas-cromwells-rememberances

[sugarbaker design]

I don't know if that makes sense or not.

 

 

It does.  She was stomping on the baby because the miscarriage of Henry and Anne's son was the death knell for Anne and sudden unemployment for her staff including the fool.

Edited May 5, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[turbogirlnyc]

I haven't read the books, but the "fool" or "jester" wasn't simply a figure for light entertainment but also was someone who would comment satirically on what was going on, and could deliver to the monarchs news that others could not (this appeared to have to do with the assumption that the jester was crazy or stupid and couldn't be held responsible for what was acted out). The acting out of the fool, in my mind, was not meant to be amusing, and her laughter as she stomped on the baby may have had to do with the recognition that not only was the baby dead but so was the chance Anne Boleyn would survive. Only the fool would dare to be so blunt and so honest. She was being ironic, in other words, rather than humorous. I don't know if that makes sense or not.

This makes sense. Especially the part about it symbolizing Anne's last chance to please Henry.

[Constantinople]

Anne is a pill, but I do enjoy her fool "Mary", she's a hoot.

Did Anne say she renamed her fool Mary after the Princess Mary, or are we supposed to infer that?

In any case, nice twofer since Anne's younger sister is also named Mary.

[sugarbaker design]

Did Anne say she renamed her fool Mary after the Princess Mary, or are we supposed to infer that?

 

 

If she didn't mention it I certainly inferred it!  I'm trying to think of another historical movie/show which featured a fool who was also a dwarf that resembled Queen Elizabeth I.

[WhiteStumbler]

Loved this episode, but I expected to love it -- at this point I am hooked, and my true disappointment is that there are soon (too soon!) to be no more new episodes. The cinematography seems to be returning to slightly more somber, candlelit scenes, but at least two of them were made brighter by the presence of Chapuys and his wonderful hats. I thought that Gregory looked very cool in his armor before his first joust (fun fact: I grew up in a state where jousting is the state sport), and Cromwell's parental concern was touching and his advice seemed sound. Did everyone catch the actions of Cromwell when he is told 'the king is dead'? He has an opportunity to flee with his family, but instead pushed a dagger in his sleeve and soldiers on. I wish there was more Stephen Gardiner, but I loved the return of Wolsey, however briefly, drawing the explicit connection between Wolsey's position then and Cromwell's now.

 

Favorite lines...
 
Henry VIII: Why not geld me while you’re at it? That would suit you, Madame, wouldn’t it?

The way he spat those lines out was amazing.
 
Cromwell: Jane -- when the time comes to unburden your conscience, don't go to a priest; he'll give you penance, I'll give you a reward.
 
Cromwell: Search Europe. You'll not find any talent I possess that England cannot use.

Edited May 5, 2015 by WhiteStumbler

[meep.meep]

Did Anne say she renamed her fool Mary after the Princess Mary, or are we supposed to infer that?

 

She said it.  I don't remember if they showed the fool before this episode.

 

This is why I was excited that they cast Damien Lewis as the king.

[kieyra]

Can anyone explain the scene where Anne's fool "gives birth" to a cloth doll/baby and proceeds to stomp on it? At that point Anne had lost the baby. Why would anyone find that act amusing? If it was in the book, I don't remember it at all.

Personally, I've never been keen to the "Henry had a brain injury and became a tyrant" theory. It smacks of revisionist/Tudor history to me. Although I strongly disagree with David Starky on many things, even he calls Henry a tyrant. Sure, the blow to the head may have caused a slight personality change, but nothing as drastic as that.

 

I'll split the difference between "injury caused him to be a tyrant" and "he was always a tyrant". 

 

I don't think much of the brain injury theory. I do, however, think that he became much, much worse/scarier later in life. Probably a combination of the constant pain from his leg, no longer being able to participate in his beloved sports, and more importantly, what he viewed as a long string of disappointments and betrayals (which made him more paranoid and vicious). 

 

Everyone let him down--from his point of view--including Katharine (no son!), Anne (no son!), every single one of his advisers (which is why he stopped listening to anyone else's counsel after Cromwell), Catherine Howard (who cheated on him), God (who kept sending him evil wives and not nearly enough sons), etc etc. As far as he was concerned, the only one who didn't screw him over was Jane Seymour, and basically she didn't live long enough to get on his bad side (much). 

 

It reminds me of someone with borderline personality disorder, but at the same time there's no telling what kind of weird psychological fallout happens if you truly believe you were ordained by God to rule on earth and then things keep failing to go 'your way'.

 

(If this is coming across as apologist it's not intended that way. I just think 'tyrant' is a little too reductive.) 

Edited May 5, 2015 by kieyra

[LuciaMia]

 

movie/show which featured a fool who was also a dwarf that resembled Queen Elizabeth I.

That was from the series 'Elizabeth R' starring Glenda Jackson.  If I remember rightly, it was a scene where the Queen of France had her dwarfs act out Robert Dudley and Elizabeth's flirting.

[sugarbaker design]

Yes!  That was it LuciaMia!  And flirting is putting it mildly, they were randy little fools.

Edited May 5, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[ulkis]

Cromwell: Jane -- when the time comes to unburden your conscience, don't go to a priest; he'll give you penance, I'll give you a reward.

 

I knew there was a line that I really loved, but I couldn't remember it. Thanks for bringing it up! Was that line in "Bringing Up the Bodies"? I read it but I don't remember.

[WhiteStumbler]

ulkis: Was that line in "Bringing Up the Bodies"?

I don't know if it was in the books, it has been a while since I read them.

 

Does anyone know if the series is going to cover all the books to the end of BUtB? Seems like a lot of ground to cover in just one more episode.

Edited May 5, 2015 by WhiteStumbler

[kieyra]

I knew there was a line that I really loved, but I couldn't remember it. Thanks for bringing it up! Was that line in "Bringing Up the Bodies"? I read it but I don't remember.

 

Yes on this, and a lot of the other exchanges with Jane Rochford are word-for-word. (I don't remember if this episode included the scene where she really lays it all out for him, but if so I believe the majority of that dialogue was verbatim. In general, most of the real zingers in the show are.) 

 

Does anyone know if the series is going to cover all the books to the end of BUtB? Seems like a lot of ground to cover in just one more episode.

 

Yes, more's the pity. We needed more episodes to do the two books justice. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by kieyra

[sugarbaker design]

(I don't remember if this episode included the scene where she really lays it all out for him,

 

 

This episode didn't, but if there's a God in heaven, next episode should.  It's one of the scenes in the book I'm most looking forward to seeing,

along with the dreaded Christmas room

.

Edited May 5, 2015 by sugarbaker design

[blackwing]

Apart from the tedious pace, one of the things I dislike the most in this series is the portrayal of Anne Boleyn.  We see pretty much nothing likeable about her.  She is a harpy.  In "The Tudors", I found Natalie Dormer's portrayal much more likeable.  Yes, she was very ambitious, but she was also human.

 

Every scene of Cromwell looking longingly at Jane Seymour like a lecher is disturbing.

[ulkis]

Apart from the tedious pace, one of the things I dislike the most in this series is the portrayal of Anne Boleyn.  We see pretty much nothing likeable about her.  She is a harpy.  In "The Tudors", I found Natalie Dormer's portrayal much more likeable.  Yes, she was very ambitious, but she was also human.

 

Every scene of Cromwell looking longingly at Jane Seymour like a lecher is disturbing.

 

This is only a 6 episode series though, and it's supposed to be from Cromwell's point-of-view. Not that not having a sympethetic portrayal of Anne isn't a valid reason to not like the series, but I get why they've written her the way they have. I imagine she will come across as more sympathetic in the next episode. I think it would be hard not to. 

Edited May 5, 2015 by ulkis

[SFoster21]

Well, until she's beheaded.

People have cited "Anne of the Thousand Days" and that movie is remarkable for laying out the legal ramifications that AB faced re: Elizabeth, and how Elizabeth's future was always in her thoughts.

AB had the MOST incredible revenge on them all, birthing a long-lived monarch who ruled wisely and kept the peace and left a legacy that eclipsed Henry's. Always loved that.

Edited May 5, 2015 by SFoster21