Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[shapeshifter]

9 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Omg. I must be doing something wrong. Both my sister and my dad are now on FB. My sister blocked me. My dad denied my friend request. I'm not estranged from either of them. My sister just said "Social media is something I just don't want you to see." My dad's explanation was even more absurd: he only wants to use Facebook to talk about blackjack card counting strategies and to promote the book he wrote on blackjack. He is posting FB stories and joining blackjack discussion groups but won't accept my friend request. What gives?

Try to just accept it and or ignore it? 
There's an old college friend on FB who I "follow" who has ignored my friend requests over the years. I would love to reconnect with her, but it is what it is. 
Of course, it's possible for me to not take it personally, because she's not family, and you can't really do that.
But maybe you can look at it as an exercise for you in accepting their choices --even when it hurts. 😞

[SoMuchTV]

19 minutes ago, Growsonwalls said:

Omg. I must be doing something wrong. Both my sister and my dad are now on FB. My sister blocked me. My dad denied my friend request. I'm not estranged from either of them. My sister just said "Social media is something I just don't want you to see." My dad's explanation was even more absurd: he only wants to use Facebook to talk about blackjack card counting strategies and to promote the book he wrote on blackjack. He is posting FB stories and joining blackjack discussion groups but won't accept my friend request. What gives?

 

5 minutes ago, shapeshifter said:

Try to just accept it and or ignore it? 
There's an old college friend on FB who I "follow" who has ignored my friend requests over the years. I would love to reconnect with her, but it is what it is. 
Of course, it's possible for me to not take it personally, because she's not family, and you can't really do that.
But maybe you can look at it as an exercise for you in accepting their choices --even when it hurts. 😞

Yeah, some people (especially of a certain age) may be joining Facebook for a very specific purpose (like connecting with their blackjack group, or seeing pictures of a grandkid) and aren’t interested in expanding into anything else. So, don’t take it personally?

[Bastet]

I am not the one to ask about social media, as I opt out of participating in almost all of it, but for what this outsider's response is worth:  If you have good actual relationships with these family members, @Growsonwalls, I'd suggest not worrying about your online status with them, and just figure they're using Facebook in a way that doesn't comport with how you're using it and they don't want to expand that beyond their limited purpose by friending you.  If there are other indications there's a greater relationship problem at hand, deal with that in person.

[WinnieWinkle]

11 hours ago, Growsonwalls said:

Omg. I must be doing something wrong. Both my sister and my dad are now on FB. My sister blocked me. My dad denied my friend request. I'm not estranged from either of them. My sister just said "Social media is something I just don't want you to see." My dad's explanation was even more absurd: he only wants to use Facebook to talk about blackjack card counting strategies and to promote the book he wrote on blackjack. He is posting FB stories and joining blackjack discussion groups but won't accept my friend request. What gives?

With regard to your father that sounds exactly like my husband,  He only got on FB because a hobby group he belongs to uses FB as their way of communicating about meetings etc.  He isn't even friends with me let alone our kids.  He has no interest in FB (is actually very negative about FB - part of his grumpy old man syndrome) for any purpose other than communicating with his group - if they ever move off FB he'd be gone too.

Your sister though,  admit that would bug me too!  Being blocked is a major slap in the face on FB and people should make sure if they do it to someone that that person doesn't find out about it.  It's going to lead to hurt feelings at the very least.  I would definitely talk frankly to your sister about this and explain that her blocking you is something that really bothers you.  If she doesn't want you to see what she posts on FB I'd be a little worried to be honest and concerned she is getting involved with people or groups that are problematic.

Edited March 3, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Growsonwalls]

42 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

With regard to your father that sounds exactly like my husband,  He only got on FB because a hobby group he belongs to uses FB as their way of communicating about meetings etc.  He isn't even friends with me let alone our kids.  He has no interest in FB (is actually very negative about FB - part of his grumpy old man syndrome) for any purpose other than communicating with his group - if they ever move off FB he'd be gone too.

Your sister though,  admit that would bug me too!  Being blocked is a major slap in the face on FB and people should make sure if they do it to someone that that person doesn't find out about it.  It's going to lead to hurt feelings at the very least.  I would definitely talk frankly to your sister about this and explain that her blocking you is something that really bothers you.  If she doesn't want you to see what she posts on FB I'd be a little worried to be honest and concerned she is getting involved with people or groups that are problematic.

She's not doing anything mysterious. That's just the way she is. One thing I know she does is that since she's a hypochondriac she likes to post nonstop about her supposed ailments, and she probably doesn't want me seeing that. Because I know what illnesses she actually has and which ones she doesn't. 

[WinnieWinkle]

Just now, Growsonwalls said:

That's just the way she is. One thing I know she does is that since she's a hypochondriac she likes to post nonstop about her supposed ailments, and she probably doesn't want me seeing that. Because I know what illnesses she actually has and which ones she doesn't. 

Sounds like one of my nieces.  She posts things on FB that the family knows is not true - or certainly heavily embroidered - so far no one has really called her out on it because, well, life is too short to deal with her nonsense.  But she seems oblivious that we can see her living out her fake persona on FB.  Deeply weird.

[Callietwo]

I blocked a sibling because of their activity in fringe political groups.. they've been investigated by the govt more than once so I'm told.  They are gleeful about it, even.  But I also don't associate with them other than family gatherings where I haven't a choice if I want to see the other family members.  I think they may have blocked me too though based on what other siblings have said.  

I'm guessing it's for the medical reasons you mention with regard to your sister.  I know someone like that, who always is posting about illnesses and injuries... to the point, you can tell it's a cry for attention.  My Unfollow button and snooze buttons come in handy during one of their "flares."  Her flares come closer together or increase in severity when she gets less responses from her posts.  It is a mental health issue, and quite sad.  Perhaps that is the case with your sister @Grownsonwalls

[JTMacc99]

On 3/3/2021 at 1:06 AM, Bastet said:

I am not the one to ask about social media, as I opt out of participating in almost all of it, but for what this outsider's response is worth:  If you have good actual relationships with these family members, @Growsonwalls, I'd suggest not worrying about your online status with them, and just figure they're using Facebook in a way that doesn't comport with how you're using it and they don't want to expand that beyond their limited purpose by friending you.  If there are other indications there's a greater relationship problem at hand, deal with that in person.

Based on my personal experience, I agree with this advice.

With very few exceptions, my Facebook connections with people I'm related to are the all of the ones I would drop first.  Random cousins posting stupid "Let's see if anybody reads this..." Miscellaneous aunts spamming religious or political stuff. I have the whole lot of them on "Unfollow".  And then there are others that are such psychos that I had to set anything I post to be "Share with friends except those two". 

So I would consider not having a friend request accepted by even (or in my case especially) an immediate family member as a GOOD THING. 

[BookWoman56]

I have blocked  some extended family members and acquaintances who kept posting political/religious stuff I disagreed with, when I realized the vast majority of their posts were on those topics. I am connected with my siblings on FB, except for my younger sister. With her, I simply never accepted her friend request, which was sent a few years back while my mother was still alive. I didn’t want this sister to see my posts expressing my political views or any mention of my sexual orientation, because I didn’t want her upsetting my mother by telling her that I’m a pansexual atheist, given my mother’s dementia and inability to process things that went against her belief system. Not that I post a lot on FB, but I simply wanted certain aspects of my life to be private, at least as far as this sister was concerned. Ironically, this sister is now living with me because of covid, and now that my mother is dead, I have had the blunt discussion with her on these topics and informed her I don’t give a flying fuck about what her own beliefs are, as long as she doesn’t try to force her beliefs on me. I regard FB as a tool that helps me keep up with some friends and family, and that also provides some content I find interesting, such as vintage china, gardens, and so forth. But if FB disappeared tomorrow, there would be minimal impact on my life. 

Edited March 5, 2021 by BookWoman56

[WinnieWinkle]

11 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

But if FB disappeared tomorrow, there would be minimal impact on my life. 

I use it to keep up with family but mainly it's where I go to fill my Candy Crush addiction.  As long as I can crush candies through an app somewhere I'd be good 🙂 .

Edited March 5, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[BookWoman56]

There’s a situation with extended family that annoys me, while not affecting me in any significant way, so maybe I am just in a bitchy mood. My nephew and his wife have 2 kids, one who is 10 and has autism, and another who is 5-6 and neurotypical. I’ve seen the online horror stories of parents who focus their energy on the neurodivergent child almost exclusively to the point that they ignore/neglect the other child or in some cases, as the kids get older, turn the neurotypical child into essentially a caregiver for the neurodivergent child. But what’s happening is instead sort of going overboard to make the neurotypical child feel that she also needs and deserves special attention. 
 

For example, the mother will post on social media about the neurodivergent child maybe once every couple of weeks, usually to mention progress in school or some other goal being achieved. These posts generally contain photos or videos, along with comments about how x number of years ago, she never thought this child would achieve XYZ. 
 

OTOH, the mother posts almost every damn day about the neurotypical child and her latest “accomplishment,” such as dancing to a song, being dressed in an outfit she chose herself, and so forth. The comments are OTT praise for whatever the child did. It’s glaringly obvious that this child is the mother’s favorite. This child also has her own room, in addition to her bedroom, just for her collection of stuffed animals. 
 

I don’t feel in any way that the needs of the neurodivergent child are being ignored. He is in a program suitable for him, and both parents are supportive of him. It’s just that the mother has seriously overcompensated when it comes to the neurotypical child. My late sister, the grandmother of these kids, had raised some concerns about how obsessed the mother was about catering to every whim the neurotypical child has, and the mother stated that she had to ensure the neurotypical child didn’t feel neglected. 
 

I fully understand the need to make sure both kids are getting enough attention. But there’s a difference between doing that and showering one kid with so many toys that an entire extra room is needed to store them, and bragging online about every routine thing this kid does versus minimal online comments about major milestones being reached by the other child. 
 

I also think some of the differences are due to gender and upbringing. The mother grew up in extreme poverty and IMO uses retail therapy to make herself feel better. The neurodivergent child is male; the neurotypical child is female. So I suspect some of the behavior the mother exhibits is her trying to give her daughter all the attention and physical possessions she never had herself when growing up. Unfortunately, what I envision is this kid growing up with a huge sense of entitlement, thinking that of course everyone is supposed to be amazed by even the most mundane things she does, and she’s always supposed to get a huge number of presents for every birthday and holiday. 
 

I know better than to say anything to the mother, and in general feel like it’s not my business how they raise their children. But if my nephew ever asks for advice on the kids, then I will try to point out the potential for problems down the road. 

[mostlylurking]

Any advice for letting things go and not letting other people’s opinions bother you??  I am the type of person who fixates on things and play them over and over in my head. I also care way too much about what other people think and spend my life either explaining my choices or playing my future explanations in my head (what?!?!).

I have a daughter and want to set a good example for her.  I just want to get to a place where I can be secure in myself and my choices and not feel like I have to explain them.

Recently some family drama has played out which really has nothing to do with me (husbands family). A wayward family member who also happens to be the golden child finally graced us all with her presence, and it’s like all has been forgiven. I’m annoyed. My husband couldn’t care less, he doesn’t hold on to things like I do. 

We also found out a family member is making a questionable life decision that could be harmful and/or impact other family members. Everyone else felt the same way, but again, now everyone is making excuses for this horrible decision. I’m having a hard time with this as well. I don’t like confrontation so it just plays over and over in my head.

Anyway, just wanted to vent.  Any advice would be welcome.  Don’t hold back, I know I’m messy.  I would just love some actual tips.  Preferably that don’t Include therapy, I’m not opposed to it and I know it helps many people but I’ve tried it and it’s not been helpful.

I’m trying to better myself for my daughter.

[WinnieWinkle]

3 hours ago, mostlylurking said:

Recently some family drama has played out which really has nothing to do with me (husbands family). A wayward family member who also happens to be the golden child finally graced us all with her presence, and it’s like all has been forgiven. I’m annoyed. My husband couldn’t care less, he doesn’t hold on to things like I do. 

We also found out a family member is making a questionable life decision that could be harmful and/or impact other family members. Everyone else felt the same way, but again, now everyone is making excuses for this horrible decision. I’m having a hard time with this as well. I don’t like confrontation so it just plays over and over in my head.

I guess what it comes down to is what you could do or say that would make any difference.  Especially since this isn't your own family.  It's maddening watching extended family members or friends make bad choices and I totally sympathize with how that would make you feel (been there, done that) but at the end of the day unless you could actually change something it's better to stay out of it.  I'd suggest if you feel that your own life is going to be negatively impacted by these people then trying to distance yourself and your daughter might be in order. Covid right now being the ideal excuse not to get together with people.

[mostlylurking]

 

3 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

at the end of the day unless you could actually change something it's better to stay out of it.

Thanks so much for this.  I feel like I need to embroider it on a pillow and carry it around with me always. Lol.

[BookWoman56]

@mostlylurking, if these situations are ones where you can’t really make a difference or shouldn’t get involved, but irritate you sufficiently that you are investing too much time thinking about them, try this: Write a letter or email to the person causing the problem or making the stupid decisions, and point by point explain what they need to do to fix the problem or why their decisions are wrong or misguided. Vent all you want and get it out of your system. Then simply do NOT send the letter or email, because as you well know, they won’t be receptive to your advice and opinions. 
 

I’ve done this myself on occasions and retained the letter or email so that if someone elicits my opinion on the situation, I already have my talking points organized. This strategy may not work for everyone, but it’s helped me stop obsessing about certain situations. 

[mostlylurking]

I love that idea!  Oh my, it might be a pretty long letter. Lol. Thank you so much for the tip!

[VioletNevermind]

Hi, folks.  I don't know if anyone remembers the issue I had with my daughter a couple of years ago, but the bullet points are that she left my home in a huff at 18 (my pesky rules and expectations) to live with her father, who doesn't care what she does at all.  She proceeded to make one bad decision after another, including getting into drugs, drinking (she isn't even 21 until September), vaping, smoking, and hanging out with people who don't have her best interests at heart.  She has worked sporadically at best over the past two years, but was laid off last March due to the pandemic.  She basically demanded that I help her to file for unemployment, which I did.  She received the regular amount, plus $600/week extra for Covid relief.  2020 was one big spending spree.  All told, she received roughly $25,000 and it's all gone, blown on Amazon purchases, drugs, booze, vape products, and whatever else her heart desired.  It expired in January and she asked/demanded that I help her to reinstate it.  I refused and told her that it was time to find another job.  We live in the DC metro area where jobs for people with her relative lack of experience are plentiful, so she could have one by the end of the month with minimal effort- even sooner if she asked me to help her, which I would be more than happy to do.  At the end of the day, my daughter doesn't want to do anything but have fun and hang out with the boyfriend whose family she's been living with for the past five months (that's a separate post in itself).

So, now that we're all caught up, here's the issue: I've been asking my daughter for the past few months if she has done her taxes.  She has always needed my help (i.e. to do it for her) in the past.  I have refused to help her reinstate her unemployment, but I was still willing to do her taxes because it's very important, of course.  She blew me off a half-dozen times until last month, when I told her that my work would be crazy starting in May (I work at a university- finals time!), so to please get me her documents ASAP.  Instead of thanking me for helping her and spending the five minutes it would take to gather her documents, she complained that I was "rushing her" and asked why we had to do it "on my time schedule."  She finally sent her W-2, but we need a 1099-G to account for her unemployment.  She received so much unemployment that she may owe money and these aren't numbers I can fudge.  I told her that we would have to file for an extension by close of business today if she couldn't find the 1099-G and she said on Saturday she would "let me know."  Total silence since then.  As you know, the deadline is today and I have no clue what to do.  If she does owe money, she wouldn't even be able to pay it because she has none.  

It bears mentioning that this is a child who has basically ignored me for the past 2.5 years unless she needs/wants something.  I have spoken with her by phone once this calendar year.  She's never "available" when I call, so I've stopped trying.  I haven't seen her since December 2019 and we live about 10 minutes apart.  She sent a one-line text on Mother's Day (no phone call) and didn't contact my mother at all, but she spent the whole day celebrating with her boyfriend's stepmother and mother.  In short, she is not a very nice person at the moment, but I don't want to come off as being retaliatory.  Make no mistake; my daughter treats me like shit.  Do I contact her once again to ask what she'd like for me to do or just drop it and let the chips fall where they may?  Many people in my life have told me that I have done more than my due diligence and to just mind my business.  After all, any letters from the IRS will go to her father's house.  What do you think?

Edited May 17, 2021 by Suzy Rhapsody

[MargeGunderson]

Just drop it. She’s an adult, she can file her own taxes - or not, if that’s what she chooses. It is not your responsibility, nor will it be your fault if she fails to file and there are consequences. 

[Bastet]

Yes, I remember your story well, and am sorry to hear she hasn't grown up any or started treating you any better yet.

You're not claiming her as a dependent, right, so her taxes are not related to your taxes in any way?  Then drop it.  She needs consequences.  Ugly but not life-destroying consequences would be the best thing for her at this point, because she's sure determined not to learn any other way and always finds someone to save her or at least soften the blow (including you, so please stop that for her sake as well as yours).  Let her find out what it's like to have the IRS be the one "rushing" her; they don't give a shit about what's convenient for her.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Bastet

[WinnieWinkle]

It's incredibly hard to stop being the one taking care of a child.  Even an adult child.   But I agree with the others posting here - I would let this go and let the chips fall where they may.  I'd also recommend if she comes crying to you later looking for help that you harden your heart and tell her to ask her father or her boyfriend's family to step up.  Easy advice to give of course!

[VioletNevermind]

Okay, I’m committed to not bringing it up.  She will be pissed (at me) when she comes out of whatever fog she’s in and realizes that there will almost certainly be penalties from the IRS.  If/when she mentions it again, should I tell her that she’ll have to file this year’s taxes herself? I told her months ago that I would do them, but I don’t have the documents I need.  And would you go ahead and file the extension for her today, knowing that she doesn’t have the form . . . or just. drop. it.

None of these deadlines are a surprise to her, she just doesn’t listen, especially to me.  At this point, I don’t even know if she’s asked someone else to do them, which is highly unlikely, but still.  That’s the only reason I haven’t filed the extension today.

@WinnieWinkle: A very good point about asking her father or boyfriend’s family.  I’ve made that very suggestion to her multiple times over the last two years about various things and she’s told me more than once that she “doesn’t want to inconvenience them“ and “she would rather have me do it.“  It’s insane.  Even as I write these things, I’m shocked at myself.  I exist at her pleasure and for no other reason.  I wouldn’t put up with this BS from anyone else, yet here we are.

Edited May 17, 2021 by Suzy Rhapsody

[MargeGunderson]

1 minute ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Okay, I’m committed to not bringing it up.  She will be pissed (at me) when she comes out of whatever fog she’s in and realizes that there will almost certainly be penalties from the IRS.  If/when she mentions it again, should I tell her that she’ll have to file this year’s taxes herself? I told her months ago that I would do them, but I don’t have the documents I need.  And would you go ahead and file the extension for her today, knowing that she doesn’t have the form . . . or just. drop. it.  None of these deadlines are a surprise her, she just doesn’t listen, especially to me.  At this point, I don’t even know if she’s asked someone else to do them, which is highly unlikely, but still.  That’s the only reason I haven’t filed the extension today.  

Sounds like she’s going to be pissed at you no matter what. She’s been rude to you every time you’ve brought it up, so why would you file the extension for her? If you continue to do things for her, you’re only teaching her that she can treat you badly with no consequences. 

[Bastet]

Just drop it.  She didn't deserve your offer of help in the first place, and then couldn't even be bothered to follow through.  Enough is enough.

She's been doing this to you for years, telling you over and over again in word and deed that she doesn't care to have a relationship with you, she just wants you to be there when she needs something.  That's not a daughter, that's a parasite.  I'm sorry the little girl you sacrificed so much for has turned into that, and she's quite young so I hope it's not permanent, but she is who she is right now.  The consequences of that have to be on her, or she'll never change.

[WinnieWinkle]

5 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Even as I write these things, I’m shocked at myself.  I exist at her pleasure and for no other reason.  I wouldn’t put up with this BS from anyone else, yet here we are.

My kids are older than your daughter but there are still things I'd do for them that I'd never do for anyone else!  It's very hard to stop being Mom.  But from what you write you are in a no win situation with her - she is acting like a teenager who thinks she can treat Mom like crap but Mom will still be there to pick up the pieces when it all falls apart.  There comes a point where you just can't do that dance anymore.  

[CrazyInAlabama]

If you keep doing things for her, she will never learn to do them for herself.    

[Jaded]

22 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

I’ve made that very suggestion to her multiple times over the last two years about various things and she’s told me more than once that she “doesn’t want to inconvenience them“ and “she would rather have me do it.“ 

There's your answer right there. She doesn't give a damn about inconveniencing you compared to caring about doing so in regards to the boyfriend and her father. Don't file the extension. It will only prolong this dysfunctional one sided situation of her bleeding you dry mentally and emotionally while she continues to do whatever she wants. Let her be someone else's problem who has no emotional attachment when it comes to consequences for her actions. She blew through all that money and doing so will come with a price. She needs to learn that money received like that isn't just easy come, easy go.

My Mom died a few years ago. I miss her loving and caring presence so much along with our conversations about pretty much anything. We lived together so it took quite while to get used to her not being here anymore even though I was relieved she wasn't suffering from her health issues anymore.

Your big heart towards your daughter reminds me of my Mom's love for me. I've always had internal guilt issues even though I never went through any periods of having a wild kind of life or anywhere near to that. Most of the time guilt I've felt over the years has been over things I shouldn't have felt it over in the first place. I couldn't imagine putting her through what your daughter has put you through. You don't deserve to be treated this way. You've done all you can to get through to her. Turn that job over to someone else as I mentioned before that doesn't have the emotional connection who will bark and bite.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Jaded

[VioletNevermind]

Thanks for your thoughts, everyone.  Much appreciated, just as it was a couple of years ago when everything first went sideways.

I’m too close to all of this to be able to think clearly, so I’ll follow up with these questions: As I mentioned, she doesn’t contact me for virtually any reason except with a gynecological question or an “assignment,” i.e. the taxes.  Her phone is still on my plan, but she pays for it.  Her bank account is still attached to mine, dating from childhood.  I have no clue why she hasn’t separated her bank account, but I understand why she has remained on my family plan- it’s cheaper.  I can see her location, which gives me a great deal of comfort for whatever reason.  If you were me, would you tell her that she’s off the family plan, even if it meant not being able to see her location anymore?  Also, would you continue to contact her (by text, of course; she won’t take my calls) just to say hi when she typically takes between 12-24 hours to respond or just leave her alone and let her come to me?  I can’t even tell you how hurt I was (still am) over Mother’s Day.  I didn’t know we were that far gone.

[Bastet]

I encouraged you before to sever those electronic connections, and stand by that because I don't actually think it's good for you to be able to see where she is or how she's spending money like she can just print more.  You can't do anything about it, and while it comforts you to see she's around town, it didn't back when she was flitting off with the flavor of the week.  If the boyfriend's family gets sick of her, she'll be back to that.  Do you really want to see her phone start bee-bopping all over and wonder what that's about (since, again, you can't do anything about it)? 

Besides, if she doesn't want to act like part of your family, she doesn't get the benefit of your family plan rate.  Financial ties should be the first ones cut.

As far as texting her to say hello, no, I would not do that anymore, because she never takes her turn initiating.  I would just message happy birthday and Merry Christmas.  Like an acquaintance.  Anything else needs to come from her.

[shapeshifter]

Mom of 3 adult daughters here. One is similar to your daughter.
I was considered the black sheep when I was that age, and didn't grow out of that status for at least a decade.

All advice above sounds reasonable. 
I would just add to keep in mind that we now know that the part of the human brain that makes the connections necessary for good decision making does not finish maturing until about age 25 or 26 --which sounds like a bad design and/or evolutionary adaptation, but it is well documented.

 

[VioletNevermind]

I wish there was some way for me to feel better about the fact that I basically have no relationship with my only child.  The fact that I can see the damn phone records and I know that she's in contact with her father and his family just makes it that much worse.  My mother absolutely partnered with me to raise my daughter and she didn't even contact her on Mother's Day.  When I text her first, she takes hours upon hours to respond with a word or two.  When she wakes up one morning and decides that she feels good about me, it lasts four or five days, then POOF- it's gone as quickly as it came.  This is a child who claimed that I "abused" her when she was young, something that every one of my family and friends have dismissed out of hand as an outright lie that she is using to excuse her actions.  I guess that "abuse" doesn't prevent her from expecting that I help her on demand (and then get mad at me when I can't do it on her time schedule).

I'm just venting, so don't mind me.  I do see a therapist and despite what they say, the people in my life are sick of hearing about this, so I'm at the stage where I'm pretending to be happy just to spare them the annoyance of hearing about my daughter for the 1000th time this year.  I'm beyond tired of being sad and having this eat away at my soul day after day.  I know in my heart of hearts that it's way past time to separate her bank account and cancel the family plan, even if it means incurring her wrath when I tell her.  I'm just afraid that doing that will be the official end of our relationship, not that we really have one now.  I know that being aware of her location at any given time does not mean that we have a relationship, but it sure feels like it.

Ugh.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Suzy Rhapsody

[emma675]

16 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

I'm just afraid that doing that will be the official end of our relationship, not that we really have one now. 

You just said it yourself, you don't have a relationship anymore (not that you can't have one again in the future). This is going to sound harsh, but a relationship is two people loving, caring, and respecting each other, and you're the only one doing that. You're not cutting her off, she already did that to you. She's using you for what she needs, when she needs it, and doesn't care about you or your feelings. She's made her decision pretty clear, I think you need to recognize it and step away from her. It doesn't seem like you've ever made her feel any consequences for her actions, so she'll never change her behavior towards you. Why should she? She's getting everything she wants on her terms. 

[VioletNevermind]

1 hour ago, emma675 said:

It doesn't seem like you've ever made her feel any consequences for her actions, so she'll never change her behavior towards you. Why should she? She's getting everything she wants on her terms. 

That's just the thing; she feels that my consequences when she was growng up were too frequent.  She had two homes: one where there were pretty basic expectations like doing reasonably well in school, working more than 10 hours per week, and not inviting multiple older guys into our apartment when I was gone (mine) and one where I was denigrated at every opportunity and no one cared what she did (her father's).  Her holding me at arm's length today sure feels like her way of "punishing me" for the past.  She uses her love and contact as currency and by sitting here being hurt, I play right into it.  I feel like I'm constantly having to prostrate myself before her in apology in order to merit her contact . . . which doesn't happen.

Edited May 18, 2021 by Suzy Rhapsody

[emma675]

5 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

That's just the thing; she feels that my consequences when she was growng up were too frequent.  She had two homes: one where there were pretty basic expectations like doing reasonably well in school, working more than 10 hours per week, and not inviting multiple older guys into our apartment when I was gone (mine) and one where I was denigrated at every opportunity and no one cared what she did (her father's).  Her holding me at arm's length today sure feels like her way of "punishing me" for the past.  She uses her love and contact as currency and by sitting here being hurt, I play right into it.  I feel like I'm constantly having to prostrate myself before her in apology in order to merit her contact.

Those are her feelings, they aren't necessarily reality.

I'll just say one more thing, because I feel like you're talking a little in circles at this point and looking for some way to justify her behavior towards you and your goal of staying involved in her life, which is totally understandable since you're her mom. But what's done is done. She's made it perfectly clear that she doesn't want you involved in her life right now unless it's on her terms and I think you should respect that. She may not have any idea what to do once you stop pushing for contact and a relationship and that's on her to figure out. You need to step back. You've already said you know those in your life are tired of hearing you talk about the situation, you've posted multiple times over the years in here about the situation, and nothing has changed. It's time to change your behavior towards and reactions to her, if you ever want anything to change. She doesn't seem to show much respect to you and you're not showing a lot of respect towards yourself by continuing to let her treat you as she does.

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

She uses her love and contact as currency

Try to find a way to keep the door open without being the doormat.

[theredhead77]

I finally made some progress on my parents! My parents have 3 locks w/ 3 different keys on their front door. One is a security gate, one is a dual sided deadbolt and the third is a door knob lock. The dual sided deadbolt is a massive fire hazard. I had been after my parents FOR YEARS to get that lock replaced and while they're at it, get the other locks rekeyed. My dad finally agreed and OMG it's so much easier for them! My dad told me they threw away close to 30 keys for the front door (why they had 10 sets laying around, I have no clue).

My dad emailed me this afternoon that they are finally getting a "safety shower" installed for him. He's elderly and obese and getting in and out of the tub shower has been a major safety issue for years but he's too large to use the tiny shower in my old bedroom. But my mom didn't want to change up his bathroom and my dad hates people in the house. I'm so fucking thrilled that this is being done this week! I also finally called my mom out on her saying "I don't want that" in regards to a feature in the safety shower (a seat). I said "mom, it's not about what you want, it's not your bathroom, you don't use it at all, it's about what dad wants and dads needs". And she agreed! Now I need her to understand that the god awful color scheme in that bathroom needs to go (teal and magenta).

Finally - I ordered a dryer cleaning kit off of Amazon and used it on their dryer vent when I was home a few weeks ago. The amount of lint that came out was insane. Neither of them thought there was an issue because the vent is so close to the dryer but of course it's going to be full of lint. This got my dad to agree to getting a professional dryer cleaning and while they are out there, they are going to have the chimney inspected too. Dad hates fires in the fireplace but mom likes them and the chimney needs to be inspected regardless.

[WinnieWinkle]

My aunt died recently and it is so true what people say about dealing with wills and etc can bring out the worst in people.  My cousins rallied together for the initial few days after their mother's death but now it's all bitterness and feuding.  It's not like the poor woman left a fortune or left what she had to only one son or had treasured family heirlooms passed through the generations!  They are literally fighting over Sears quality furniture and art from Home Sense.   

I am hopeful that my siblings and I won't do this when my parents go but then I never thought my cousins would act like this either so who knows!

[shapeshifter]

1 hour ago, WinnieWinkle said:

My aunt died recently and it is so true what people say about dealing with wills and etc can bring out the worst in people.  My cousins rallied together for the initial few days after their mother's death but now it's all bitterness and feuding.  It's not like the poor woman left a fortune or left what she had to only one son or had treasured family heirlooms passed through the generations!  They are literally fighting over Sears quality furniture and art from Home Sense.   

I am hopeful that my siblings and I won't do this when my parents go but then I never thought my cousins would act like this either so who knows!

My sister and I never learned to get along, and I am ashamed to say my daughters are just as bad. I guess it’s better when siblings express their deep seated jealousies over old furniture rather than challenging one another to duels to the death? Maybe because I just let my sister take whatever she wanted, I was able to see how this old stuff was something she could hold onto after Mom and Dad were gone.

Edited May 27, 2021 by shapeshifter

[Mindthinkr]

Ok. The engagement ring story. My Mom was sly and liked to play with us. She’d promise us both the same item. One was her Diamond ring. So my brother being the one who went in and got to go through everything first, took all the jewelry of value, 3/4 of her dosh, her house and then called me in to see if I wanted any of her scraps. (He also got rid of everything I loaned her) He left the extras in a baggie (yes, anything that I would get fit in one small baggie and he got everything in the house because she left the divvy up to him) and her ring was in it so I took it and a pair of earrings. Just the simple kind you get you ears pierced with. I was giving them to my granddaughter. After I went home pretty much empty handled, but satisfied that she kept her promise and I got her ring. Cut to a hour later. The phone rings and it’s my brother. He needs the ring back as he claims that it was supposed to go to his wife. Decision time. Do I give back the ring (in effect leaving me nothing) or keep it and put him in hot water with his wife. Any of you who know me know what I did. I sucked it up and gave him the ring. It was better than losing my friendship with him. Darn on my Mom for pitting us against each other. It took years for us to become friends again and that was not my choice. I harbored no grudge. I blamed the woman who always favored him and dangled the same carrots in front of both of us. Do I regret it? No. I  Was I hurt? Obviously. I did learn a lesson. Absolutely.  I have 2 (not big) diamonds. I put them in baggies labeled with which grandson should get them. They can use them to make engagement rings when they are old enough to propose. If I’m still around I’ll just hand it to him. All my jewelry is labeled as to who gets what. It’s as even as I can make it. My daughter knows (also getting her fair share) and better respect my wishes. She doesn’t want me haunting her lol. She also saw the hurt I felt when my executor brother took it all. She was hurt too that she got nothing of grandmas. My SIL also likes to wear the ring and rub it in my face. “See how nice it is? It fits me perfectly.” So far I have not taken the bait and been gracious. Wow. This is about to make me cry so I’ll stop. Look we can’t help what our other family members do, but we can make arrangements so that who we leave stuff to will never have to suffer these same hurts. The End. 

[WinnieWinkle]

26 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

Any of you who know me know what I did. I sucked it up and gave him the ring. It was better than losing my friendship with him. Darn on my Mom for pitting us against each other. It took years for us to become friends again and that was not my choice. I harbored no grudge. I blamed the woman who always favored him and dangled the same carrots in front of both of us. Do I regret it? No. I  Was I hurt? Obviously.

You are way nicer than I am.  I don't think I would have given back the ring even if all I ever did with it was throw it in a drawer and forget about it.  

Funny though about the value of things - one of my sisters has singled out two specific items that she wants as mementos of my parents when the time comes.  As I know I'm the exector of their wills I've made a mental note of this and will certainly honour that but interestingly I found out that both these mementos have fairly high price tags (which honestly I had no idea).  Not sure if she also has no idea of their value but it does make me go hmmmm....

Edited May 27, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[Mindthinkr]

4 minutes ago, WinnieWinkle said:

Funny though about the value of things - one of my sisters has singled out two specific items that she wants as mementos of my parents when the time comes.  As I know I'm the exector of their wills I've made a mental note of this and will certainly honour that but interestingly I found out that both these mementos have fairly high price tags (which honestly I had no idea).  Not sure if she also has no idea of their value but it does make me go hmmmm....

Edited just now by WinnieWinkle

I would discuss that with her and see if she still wants both. Warn her that if she does get them then the rest of you will be taking your fair share of whatever is left. Say splitting money. If they are worth 10k then each of the rest of you are entitled to 10k of whatever off the top before you begin to divide equally. 
 

[Bastet]

4 hours ago, WinnieWinkle said:

I am hopeful that my siblings and I won't do this when my parents go but then I never thought my cousins would act like this either so who knows!

If there's a dime on the table, most families will fight over it - even the ones you never would have expected it from.  It's really sad what happens.  Another reason I'm glad to be an only child.  Detailed wills/trusts are really important (but the heirs will still look for potential loopholes and fight over those).

[shapeshifter]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

Ok. The engagement ring story. My Mom was sly and liked to play with us. She’d promise us both the same item. One was her Diamond ring. So my brother being the one who went in and got to go through everything first, took all the jewelry of value, 3/4 of her dosh, her house and then called me in to see if I wanted any of her scraps. (He also got rid of everything I loaned her) He left the extras in a baggie (yes, anything that I would get fit in one small baggie and he got everything in the house because she left the divvy up to him) and her ring was in it so I took it and a pair of earrings. Just the simple kind you get you ears pierced with. I was giving them to my granddaughter. After I went home pretty much empty handled, but satisfied that she kept her promise and I got her ring. Cut to a hour later. The phone rings and it’s my brother. He needs the ring back as he claims that it was supposed to go to his wife. Decision time. Do I give back the ring (in effect leaving me nothing) or keep it and put him in hot water with his wife. Any of you who know me know what I did. I sucked it up and gave him the ring. It was better than losing my friendship with him. Darn on my Mom for pitting us against each other. It took years for us to become friends again and that was not my choice. I harbored no grudge. I blamed the woman who always favored him and dangled the same carrots in front of both of us. Do I regret it? No. I  Was I hurt? Obviously. I did learn a lesson. Absolutely.  I have 2 (not big) diamonds. I put them in baggies labeled with which grandson should get them. They can use them to make engagement rings when they are old enough to propose. If I’m still around I’ll just hand it to him. All my jewelry is labeled as to who gets what. It’s as even as I can make it. My daughter knows (also getting her fair share) and better respect my wishes. She doesn’t want me haunting her lol. She also saw the hurt I felt when my executor brother took it all. She was hurt too that she got nothing of grandmas. My SIL also likes to wear the ring and rub it in my face. “See how nice it is? It fits me perfectly.” So far I have not taken the bait and been gracious. Wow. This is about to make me cry so I’ll stop. Look we can’t help what our other family members do, but we can make arrangements so that who we leave stuff to will never have to suffer these same hurts. The End. 

I wanted this story to end with you having the ring. But this is a better story because you valued relationships over things.
There is a ring story like this with my late mother and her brother. For 30+ years my mother never forgave her sister-in-law and so died with that resentment. However, in my mother's story, she never had the ring in her possession-- it was with their father for 25+ years until he passed, and then it went to her brother, who had it made into an engagement ring for his third wife, the one he has been married to for 30 years.
But the real issue for Mom was that she never got over the loss of her mother, even after all those decades, and so when my uncle gave it to my aunt, my aunt became the target of my mother's unresolved grief and anger.
I hope that since in your story you gave up the ring that you will be able to move past it in a way my mother could not. And I hope it will help you with your grief as a symbolic letting go. 💖

 

Edited May 27, 2021 by shapeshifter

[theredhead77]

Stories like these make me grateful that my parents have a clause in their will (now trust) that if anyone fights over anything they get nothing. They put that in there when I was younger and my mom's  brother was in better health. He's a dick and he and I do not get along. But now I'm older and he's not in great health, the chances of him starting anything are slim to none.

I'm an only child and my mom asked me what I wanted when they were updating their trust. We have a small family and I have no issue with my 4 cousins having any of the family stuff. There's not much but I'm not attached to the "family" stuff, just my parents stuff. I suspect there are some legal lines allocating things to my cousins and her brother. I just hope that "if you argue you get nothing" line is still there.

[ABay]

Now I need to text my siblings and thank them all for not being total dicks when either of our parents died. There were wills and no arguments.

[CrazyInAlabama]

What has always made me so angry is when someone like my aunt (mother's sister), never leaves their home, has spent their entire life taking care of the parents, and then when the grandparents die, get screwed over.   My grandfather left everything to be split equally among the sisters, and my mother and other aunt actually declaimed (?) meaning they relinquished their claim to their parents tiny estate.   I was surprised, because the other aunt who gave up her claim, was the one who when the older aunts and uncles started getting sick, and failing, would start sucking up to them.   

Then when my paternal grandmother died, my mother told my dad right before he left to fly there his mother's funeral, to get the silverware back that my parents had given her over the years. Also, any other gifts.    Remember when you sent coupons in to a certain food company, and would get pieces of the stainless steel silverware for pennies?    Yes, my mother wanted everything she gave my grandmother back.     

My grandmother was lovely to my mother, ignored that my mother was always cold as hell to her,   What a rotten way to send your husband off to his mother's funeral.    I don't even remember if my dad actually brought the silverware back or not. 

Edited May 28, 2021 by CrazyInAlabama

[Mindthinkr]

5 hours ago, shapeshifter said:

I hope that since in your story you gave up the ring that you will be able to move past it in a way my mother could not. And I hope it will help you with your grief as a symbolic letting go. 💖

I am fine. No resentments at all. For me I did the right thing.
That was to value somebody over something. 

I have memories. They are mine forever. 

[Caoimhe]

10 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

I am fine. No resentments at all. For me I did the right thing.
That was to value somebody over something. 

I have memories. They are mine forever. 

You are a good person.  Your SIL on the other hand…. 

When my father died there were just two of us left.  My brother told me his coworkers were commiserating how difficult it is with only two children and the arguments over who gets what.  He laughed and told them we didn’t disagree on anything, we both had spouses trying to keep us from taking things we didn’t need.   It helped that our father had been very clear to both of us about a few items and who would get them, one big one was mine so I was inclined to let my brother take anything else he wanted.  Occasionally I think about things I wish I’d kept but my life is cluttered enough already. 

[PRgal]

16 hours ago, theredhead77 said:

Stories like these make me grateful that my parents have a clause in their will (now trust) that if anyone fights over anything they get nothing. They put that in there when I was younger and my mom's  brother was in better health. He's a dick and he and I do not get along. But now I'm older and he's not in great health, the chances of him starting anything are slim to none.

I'm an only child and my mom asked me what I wanted when they were updating their trust. We have a small family and I have no issue with my 4 cousins having any of the family stuff. There's not much but I'm not attached to the "family" stuff, just my parents stuff. I suspect there are some legal lines allocating things to my cousins and her brother. I just hope that "if you argue you get nothing" line is still there.

Same here.  It's just me and after me, I have my son.  My husband and I are one and done. :) 

 

But then, there's still responsibility.  When my parent are gone/too old to be capable, then I'm the one who will have to take care of things - and that can be a lot of work!  I saw my husband and his sister deal with these issues after my FIL passed.

[WinnieWinkle]

What I'm annoyed about today is that my sister (who moved away last year)  is TERRIBLE about responding to messages or voicemails.    I had several things come up last week that I really would have liked to discuss with her and she never responded to any of my messages.  I've reached the point now where I'm just not going to bother.  I really would like to have the kind of relationship where we could share the concerns about aging parents but I guess we're not going to have that.

Edited June 2, 2021 by WinnieWinkle

[PRgal]

I've been having daily conversations with my dad and have learned A LOT about his side of the family.  One thing I never knew was that my great grandmother (my paternal grandfather's mom) was a bad@$$ woman.  Widowed at a young age, she ran a shipping crate business!  I don't think she was all that well-educated, either, but was able to send my grandfather to a Jesuit-run school.  This was in Hong Kong in the 1930s.  My grandfather became functionally bilingual and could have worked as a middle person for the business but decided to venture out on his own instead.  He wasn't all that successful, but still managed to educate four children (I have one uncle and two aunts on that side) and every one of them has a university degree and (fairly) successful kids themselves.  I actually want to learn more about my great-grandmother.  Not sure how.  Genealogy/family books focus on the male side in Chinese tradition (we have a copy, but I can't read Chinese.  And even if I could, it's written in an old school style which does not use punctuation).  So unlike past posts, this is NOT a complaint.  It's a GOOD thing!