Family Ties: The Good, The Bad And The Ugly

[PRgal]

16 minutes ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

If you ever do want to make rice though, I have a recommendation -- Bob's Red Mill brown rice farina. It's just brown rice cut up into little bits so it cooks quickly (10-15 minutes). You can even do it in the microwave. That's what I use now since I don't feel like waiting 40 minutes to cook rice either. It tastes the same obviously but the texture is similar to grits. But yeah it sounds like your dad doesn't know much about nutrition and exercise but likes to think that he does 🙂

My husband won't even kiss me in front of his mom. He has a similar ethnic background as Hasan Minhaj. And don't even get me started on Catholicism. Let's just say if it wasn't for the Catholic church, I probably wouldn't be posting on here because my biological family probably wouldn't have ended up as dysfunctional as it did.

Thanks, though it basically looks a bit like quick cook congee!!!  And LOL on your family and the RC church (I can say that.  I was baptized RC.  Let's just say I've had issues with them since I was 10 and in Catholic school).  How did your husband handle the wedding without feeling uncomfortable kissing you? 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

17 minutes ago, PRgal said:

Thanks, though it basically looks a bit like quick cook congee!!!  And LOL on your family and the RC church (I can say that.  I was baptized RC.  Let's just say I've had issues with them since I was 10 and in Catholic school).  How did your husband handle the wedding without feeling uncomfortable kissing you? 

Yeah it is like congee, and I've actually thought of putting some ginger, scallions, and some kind of vegan pork (since I don't eat red meat anymore) in there and making my own congee substitute. I haven't had congee in years but on half days in high school my friends and I would go to Chinatown and I would always get congee with roast pork...good times.

Our wedding kiss was normal. But I just noticed that whenever we're around his mom, if I try to kiss him he kind of just gives me a quick peck or turns away so I kiss him on the cheek instead. I don't think he even realizes he's doing it consciously. He is very affectionate otherwise. His mom is very traditional when it comes to relationships. He even hid his first girlfriend from his parents for two years and that was when he was in college. She was a Harvard pre-med student so she was like someone that every parent would want their kid to date, but he still thought they would be pissed because she was white and also because of the whole "don't do anything before marriage" thing (and I think his mom actually was upset when she found out...eventually she gave up on expecting him to be traditional).

Not to be culturally insensitive or anything but I don't really understand why some people come to America and then guilt trip their kids when they follow American culture instead of the traditional culture they only have peripheral knowledge of.

I was raised as a godless heathen (lol) but my parents both went to Catholic school in the 60s and...yeah that kind of says it all. But basically from what I know I think my mom wouldn't have been the way she was if it wasn't for the nuns. I mean, I could be wrong, but it was at least a major contributing factor. My husband also went to Catholic school because it was the only halfway decent school in his neighborhood. They actually charged his family extra tuition because he wasn't Catholic...how charitable. He said one time a nun strangled him with his tie because he didn't turn in an assignment, and that was in the 80s!

Edited July 28, 2019 by BuyMoreAndSave

[Mindthinkr]

1 hour ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

I was raised as a godless heathen

But a wonderful one who we all love. 

[BuyMoreAndSave]

20 minutes ago, Mindthinkr said:

But a wonderful one who we all love. 

Thanks!! Same to you! ❤️❤️❤️❤️

[2727]

I like this microwave brown rice. It's short grain, has a nice nutty taste, and comes out slightly sticky. Two minutes in the microwave for a generous single serving or enough for two as a side dish. Kind of spendy for rice, but the convenience comes at a cost!

[PRgal]

17 hours ago, BuyMoreAndSave said:

Yeah it is like congee, and I've actually thought of putting some ginger, scallions, and some kind of vegan pork (since I don't eat red meat anymore) in there and making my own congee substitute. I haven't had congee in years but on half days in high school my friends and I would go to Chinatown and I would always get congee with roast pork...good times.

Our wedding kiss was normal. But I just noticed that whenever we're around his mom, if I try to kiss him he kind of just gives me a quick peck or turns away so I kiss him on the cheek instead. I don't think he even realizes he's doing it consciously. He is very affectionate otherwise. His mom is very traditional when it comes to relationships. He even hid his first girlfriend from his parents for two years and that was when he was in college. She was a Harvard pre-med student so she was like someone that every parent would want their kid to date, but he still thought they would be pissed because she was white and also because of the whole "don't do anything before marriage" thing (and I think his mom actually was upset when she found out...eventually she gave up on expecting him to be traditional).

Not to be culturally insensitive or anything but I don't really understand why some people come to America and then guilt trip their kids when they follow American culture instead of the traditional culture they only have peripheral knowledge of.

I was raised as a godless heathen (lol) but my parents both went to Catholic school in the 60s and...yeah that kind of says it all. But basically from what I know I think my mom wouldn't have been the way she was if it wasn't for the nuns. I mean, I could be wrong, but it was at least a major contributing factor. My husband also went to Catholic school because it was the only halfway decent school in his neighborhood. They actually charged his family extra tuition because he wasn't Catholic...how charitable. He said one time a nun strangled him with his tie because he didn't turn in an assignment, and that was in the 80s!

It's usually the immigrant generation only.  And it's likely because they don't want their kids to forget their heritage.  Except there's some sort of time warp thing and the culture they pass on to their children is what things were like when they left, not what things are like NOW.  My parents have a basic knowledge of what Hong Kong is like now from media and trips back (they go 3x a year), but it still isn't the same as living there full time.  I know people whose idea of "tradition" make my eyes roll too.  

[BuyMoreAndSave]

3 hours ago, PRgal said:

It's usually the immigrant generation only.  And it's likely because they don't want their kids to forget their heritage.  Except there's some sort of time warp thing and the culture they pass on to their children is what things were like when they left, not what things are like NOW.  My parents have a basic knowledge of what Hong Kong is like now from media and trips back (they go 3x a year), but it still isn't the same as living there full time.  I know people whose idea of "tradition" make my eyes roll too.  

That's a very good point. My MIL hasn't visited Bangladesh since 1998 and hasn't lived there in over 40 years. I doubt she will ever visit again because of her health problems. Her only knowledge of what it is like now comes from the media and talking to her relatives who live or visit there. I know it has changed a lot in recent times. My husband doesn't have much interest in his heritage either, which makes sense because he doesn't really have any relation to it. He doesn't even particularly like visiting his extended family that lives in the US because he doesn't have much in common with them.

[theredhead77]

This is more of a vent than anything else.

I'm planning my December trip home and per usual, I'm only staying 4 nights (Thurs - Mon) with 1 day and 2 evenings with a friend for "vacation". In addition to airfare, it costs me about $60 a day between car rental, pet sitter and airport parking to be out of town.

The way it's looking to play out is this: 

Arrive Thurs AM and spend all day & night Thursday and all day Friday with my parents.

Head to a friends house Friday PM for my "vacation" and spend Friday PM, all day Saturday and most likely Sat PM with my friend, drive back to the house Sunday AM (arrive before my mom gets up) and spend all of Sunday and Sunday night with them. Leave Monday afternoon.

My mom wants me to stay longer and is irritated that I'm not spending more time with them. I've vented in the past about how their idea of fun is to sit around and watch TV and my mom roping me into housework. That has gotten better, my mom will go out for lunch and go shopping with me and she hasn't asked me to do any housework or chores the past few trips (I'm happy to help out, especially when I wake up at 8am and am looking for something to do but not to the extent as before) but the sitting around at night, the doing nothing but watching TV is so awful and not my idea of a good time. Extending my trip a few days, through Christmas (they're Jewish and I'll be there for night 1 of Hanukkah) to sit around and do nothing sounds like my idea of hell.

It would be different if my parents were "go out and do things people". I am so envious of my friends who brunch with their mothers or do things at night with their parents but my mom is not a brunch person and my dad gets anxious if he is gone too long.

[hoosier80]

I went to Mom's this past weekend, having delayed it as long as I could.  I think someone switched bodies with her.  We did not have one huge argument.  Not one.

I got there, picked up lunch, asked what she wanted.  We went to church (another one) and she liked it.  (She doesn't like the pastor at the regular church, which they've seen a huge decline in attendance since this guy has been there, so it's not her being difficult.  The difficult is - this church is too cold - a/c on too high, not enough heat, I can't hear this pastor, I don't like how they do abcd - that is the difficult part.  My poor brother has been 'church shopping' with her.  This one is farther away, but it's off a freeway, so might actually be quicker to get to after all).  I made an easy but nice dinner.  I then settled into cleaning, really a lot of cleaning.  If I wouldn't have been cleaning, it would be just sitting and watching tv (I feel for you @theredhead77).

So I had about everything done for the night, then she says oh did you get the dirt by the front door (after I'd put everything away).  I actually burst into tears, then she started crying with me.  Yeah she'd knocked over a plant.  Sigh.  I'd been nursing a very sore back, so once I got that done, I was done.  

We went to brunch, then one small shopping trip.  Back to her house to finish up some cleaning.  I also went over some pc stuff (she got herself a laptop).  She was amazed at how I just flew through stuff with her; I explained as we waited on a program to respond (installed something for her) how I'd waited half a day at work for the stupid system to respond.  Her eyes opened wide, and it was like a light bulb went off for her.  She got why I (or other people) in offices get frustrated or can have rotten days just due to pc issues or just pc slowness.   We had a little snack, I packed up stuff, and was on my way.  

I did not have to do any outside trimming, as it's way beyond what I can do at this point.  Plus, the temperature was in the 90's.  She'd turned on the a/c, as she knows I get hot easily.  Very accommodating and thanked me multiple times.  Who has taken over her body?  Zombies?  Thank you zombies!!!

She was a bit demanding, but nothing that was too over the top.  I didn't leave screaming or crying.  I was dog tired, but that is ok.  The stressful part is when she's in such an awful mood.

Now she had some meltdowns in the weeks before I went there (big time meltdowns).  I don't know what happened between that time and this weekend.  Maybe a friend advised her how to act?  If so, bless them.  Fingers crossed this continues for a little while at least......

[ratgirlagogo]

That is the most amazing story I've ever read from you hoosier80.  I am so happy you were able to have a genuinely pleasant visit!

[BookWoman56]

12 hours ago, hoosier80 said:

Who has taken over her body?  Zombies?  Thank you zombies!!!

So glad you finally had a visit that didn't devolve into the usual nonsense.

The situation with my mother is getting fairly bad, very quickly. I don't know if she had a mini-stroke, or if there was some oxygen deprivation going on while she was hospitalized a couple of months ago; they noted her oxygen saturation levels were dropping significantly when she went to sleep, at least for a while. She was on oxygen at the hospital and then at the skilled nursing facility, but not when she was discharged home. But the upshot is that in the space of three months, she's gone from wanting as much independence as possible, given her mobility issues, to demanding that I not leave her alone in her room, unless I'm working. She screamed at me this weekend, asking where I thought I was sneaking off to, when I had told her a few minutes earlier that I needed to go to the grocery store, and that my daughter would be at the house, not in the same room but within earshot. She was supposed to have a follow-up surgical procedure yesterday, and threw all kinds of screaming fits at the hospital, claiming that I was forcing her to have surgery she didn't want to have. She is this nonstop black hole of misery and determined that everybody around her must share in it.

Six months ago, I really thought she'd live with me until she died, and while the situation had produced some constraints on my activities, it was bearable.Now, I've hit the point where I'm starting to look for a facility of some sort, assisted living or whatever. It will probably take through the end of the year to get all the paperwork done to qualify her for one and to find something suitable, but I'm at the end of my rope. My own health has taken some serious hits because of the stress in dealing with her; even my daughter has had some anxiety attacks and blood pressure spikes from all the tension and stress. Fundamentally, I can't babysit my mother 24/7, nor does she actually need that level of care. But every negative aspect of her personality has been amped up to 10, and I'm done with the drama and attention-seeking behavior. 

[PRgal]

15 hours ago, BookWoman56 said:

So glad you finally had a visit that didn't devolve into the usual nonsense.

The situation with my mother is getting fairly bad, very quickly. I don't know if she had a mini-stroke, or if there was some oxygen deprivation going on while she was hospitalized a couple of months ago; they noted her oxygen saturation levels were dropping significantly when she went to sleep, at least for a while. She was on oxygen at the hospital and then at the skilled nursing facility, but not when she was discharged home. But the upshot is that in the space of three months, she's gone from wanting as much independence as possible, given her mobility issues, to demanding that I not leave her alone in her room, unless I'm working. She screamed at me this weekend, asking where I thought I was sneaking off to, when I had told her a few minutes earlier that I needed to go to the grocery store, and that my daughter would be at the house, not in the same room but within earshot. She was supposed to have a follow-up surgical procedure yesterday, and threw all kinds of screaming fits at the hospital, claiming that I was forcing her to have surgery she didn't want to have. She is this nonstop black hole of misery and determined that everybody around her must share in it.

Six months ago, I really thought she'd live with me until she died, and while the situation had produced some constraints on my activities, it was bearable.Now, I've hit the point where I'm starting to look for a facility of some sort, assisted living or whatever. It will probably take through the end of the year to get all the paperwork done to qualify her for one and to find something suitable, but I'm at the end of my rope. My own health has taken some serious hits because of the stress in dealing with her; even my daughter has had some anxiety attacks and blood pressure spikes from all the tension and stress. Fundamentally, I can't babysit my mother 24/7, nor does she actually need that level of care. But every negative aspect of her personality has been amped up to 10, and I'm done with the drama and attention-seeking behavior. 

Maybe it's time for your mom to move to a facility if she isn't in one already. They'll be able to monitor any meds she takes and she'll be able to eat a healthier diet based on her needs.  Being with other people might help her too.  

[BookWoman56]

1 hour ago, PRgal said:

Maybe it's time for your mom to move to a facility if she isn't in one already. They'll be able to monitor any meds she takes and she'll be able to eat a healthier diet based on her needs.  Being with other people might help her too.  

She had previously been in an assisted living facility, which she hated, until my oldest sister died and there was nobody in the same town to monitor how she was doing in the facility. I moved her from FL to my home in TX. Her nutrition is fine, and I give her the meds on schedule. But she would benefit from more social interaction, and it would be better for her to have staff who can assist more easily with her mobility problems. For me, it’s that I have done all that I can do without seriously damaging my own health, and I think she needs a more structured environment as her dementia worsens. 

[Brookside]

Reaching out to you for advice/comments - I just received an email from my nephew saying he's going to propose to his girlfriend, and do I think he could have my mother's engagement ring to do so.  My mother's will only covered financial affairs, so the few personal items she had at her death we just picked one at a time.  Her engagement ring was the first thing I chose.  As background, my family has never been wealthy, and the few things left to my siblings and myself on the death of my parents are of no real value beyond sentimental, including this ring.

I'm sure you can tell I want to (will) say no, but how can I do so without seeming churlish?

Thank you all.

[Bastet]

I don't understand why proposals and pre-selected rings even still exist, but that's not the point so I won't get sidetracked.

Simply saying what you said here - that it was the first item of your mom's you chose because of its sentimental value to you, so you're going to hang onto it - would be plenty.

He didn't worry about seeming tacky in asking, so I certainly wouldn't worry about seeming churlish in declining.

[Brookside]

17 minutes ago, Bastet said:

I don't understand why proposals and pre-selected rings even still exist, but that's not the point so I won't get sidetracked.

Simply saying what you said here - that it was the first item of your mom's you chose because of its sentimental value to you, so you're going to hang onto it - would be plenty.

He didn't worry about seeming tacky in asking, so I certainly wouldn't worry about seeming churlish in declining.

Thanks Bastet.  Just to clarify, he's a very sweet kid, and I'm sure didn't mean anything by asking beyond keeping the ring in the family.  Thinking further, his father probably suggested he ask me since he's the first grandchild to get married since her death.  Again, no money-grabbing involved!

Edited August 12, 2019 by Brookside

[BookWoman56]

There’s also the point that it’s entirely possible your mother’s ring wouldn’t fit your nephew’s intended wife. If not, it would have to be re-sized, and there’s a good chance the jeweler would suggest putting the stone into a modern setting. There’s also the possibility that the nephew’s GF might not like the ring at all. Regardless, though, it’s an item that has sentimental meaning for you, and you are well within your rights to decline to give it to someone else. 

ETA: There's also the possibility that if your nephew did give this engagement ring to his GF and they subsequently got married and then divorced, she might opt to keep the ring and then it would be completely out of your family. Yeah, you'd think someone who knew it was a family piece would give it back to the family, but one never knows what a person will do in that sort of situation.

Edited August 13, 2019 by BookWoman56

[Brookside]

On 8/12/2019 at 3:46 PM, BookWoman56 said:

There’s also the point that it’s entirely possible your mother’s ring wouldn’t fit your nephew’s intended wife. If not, it would have to be re-sized, and there’s a good chance the jeweler would suggest putting the stone into a modern setting. There’s also the possibility that the nephew’s GF might not like the ring at all. Regardless, though, it’s an item that has sentimental meaning for you, and you are well within your rights to decline to give it to someone else. 

ETA: There's also the possibility that if your nephew did give this engagement ring to his GF and they subsequently got married and then divorced, she might opt to keep the ring and then it would be completely out of your family. Yeah, you'd think someone who knew it was a family piece would give it back to the family, but one never knows what a person will do in that sort of situation.

Thanks everyone for the help! The ring is still on my finger and I've decided it will be there until it's prized off!

[Mindthinkr]

25 minutes ago, Brookside said:

until it's prized off!

What is “prized off” or did you mean pried off?  I have two family diamonds. My daughter told me they are to go to each of her sons. (The nerve) Well I had a rather large engagement one myself. I divorced and gave it to my daughter. She sold it. So let’s just say I’m not so sure that I’m giving the other ones to my grandsons. I thought that I might take one (loose one) and surround it with a different gemstone that I like so that I might have a cocktail ring for parties. We do not owe our children the things that we have. They will (in my case) get everything upon my death, but in the meantime I plan to enjoy what I have with no guilt. I also feel that too many kids these days feel entitled. Nope. I worked hard for what I have and just because you want this or that, it doesn’t mean that you deserve it. 

[Brookside]

2 hours ago, Mindthinkr said:

What is “prized off” or did you mean pried off?  

prise

verb [ T ]UK (US prize) uk /praɪz/ us /praɪz

to use force to lift something off something else, for example by pressing a tool against a fixed point or to separate things using force

Cambridge Dictionary

[Mindthinkr]

9 hours ago, Brookside said:

prise

verb [ T ]UK (US prize) uk /praɪz/ us /praɪz

to use force to lift something off something else, for example by pressing a tool against a fixed point or to separate things using force

Cambridge Dictionary

Good to know for Jeopardy. Thanks. 

[BookWoman56]

My mother’s doctor came up with a solution that I hadn’t even seriously considered. Given her advanced vascular disease and a couple of hospitalizations in the last few months, she qualifies for hospice care. Like many others, I thought of hospice care as something that kicks in when someone is only a few weeks or so from dying, but that’s not the case. Yes, she could easily die within the next 6 months but there’s no certainty of that. 

Anyway, the hospice people came a few days ago, and I am super relieved at all they do. There will be a nurse visit once a week, an aide 3 times a week to help with showers, cleaning her bedroom and bathroom, laundry, etc. Hospice care pays for all critical meds, plus have supplied oxygen even though under normal criteria she didn’t qualify for it. Because hospice care is focused on making the patient comfortable, her oxygen saturation levels don’t have to hit the magic number and she doesn’t have to go to a facility to get a sleep study done. Also, if she falls again, they have a dedicated team available 24/7 to come get her off the floor and assess for injuries. They will send a volunteer over weekly just for socializing, matching up with her interests. 

Having this will make a huge difference. For anyone else in a similar situation, I encourage you to check with your parent’s (or other family member’s) doctor to see if this is an option. My mother’s doctor commented that many people are resistant to the idea because they think of hospice care as the equivalent of saying that the patient has only a few weeks to live. But that’s not how it really works, and it’s a service that can help prevent or alleviate caregiver burnout. 

ETA: Medicare pays 100% of the cost for hospice care, so there’s no co-pay or out-of-pocket cost for the service if the patient is covered under Medicare. 

Edited August 26, 2019 by BookWoman56

[Bastet]

1 hour ago, BookWoman56 said:

My mother’s doctor commented that many people are resistant to the idea because they think of hospice care as the equivalent of saying that the patient has only a few weeks to live. But that’s not how it really works, and it’s a service that can help prevent or alleviate caregiver burnout. 

This needs to be shouted from the rooftops.  I have a friend whose partner (with MS) has been receiving care for years - which is integral to both his quality of life, and hers, as the primary caregiver - and we talk often about the widespread misconceptions about the differences and overlap between palliative and hospice care, and what each of them mean.  And, yes, that fundamentally there is this The end is near! reaction that makes people - patients and family members - resistant to hospice care, when it would be the best thing for everyone. 

[theredhead77]

A friend of mine is a Hospice nurse. It's a wonderful service and I am so glad your doctor recommended it, @BookWoman56

[VioletNevermind]

Hi, everyone.  Some might remember the issues I brought here earlier this year about my 18-year-old daughter (whom I raised her entire life as a single mom) leaving home to move in with her father because she didn’t want to work, go to school, or follow any house rules of any kind.  Let me bring you up to date, then I’ll ask a couple of questions . . .

So, she’s been gone for nine months now.  When she quit her jobs, dropped out of community college, and left my home back in December, she went to Tennessee for four months with a guy she’d known for two days (yes, days).  When she returned in April, she moved in with her father.  She’d pledged her life to this boyfriend, but he broke up with her out of nowhere a little over two months ago, which was a surprise to no one but her.  He was jobless, too, which reinforced her own laziness and unwillingness to work.  She finally got a part-time job at a guitar store a couple of months ago, but she was fired a few weeks into it because she discussed her drug use with an assistant manager and took off constantly to follow random “bands” that she meets on Instagram around “on tour.”  It pains me to say it, but my daughter is the picture of arrogance and ignorance right now.  Her father does her no favors by allowing her to spend every penny of her money (then beg family for handouts), stay out all night long in unsafe places, and engage in drug use.  He has always been a pal or “fun uncle,” not a parent.  Needless-to-say, this is not how I raised her, but I’m starting to accept that there’s nothing I can do about it.  It’s been even harder to focus on my own needs for the first time.  I was a pretty young mom, so it’s really all I’ve ever known.

She does not contact me on a regular basis, despite the fact that we live 10 minutes from each other.  I bought my first home in December.  I maintain a bedroom for her and have invited her over countless times, but she’s only been here for three very short visits (a couple of hours) and never to spend the night.  I can count on one hand the number of times we’ve spoken on the phone this year when she wasn’t asking for money or to delay her cell phone bill payment.  This may sound silly, but I’ve been relegated to “second tier” family status.  I’m an afterthought, and I haven’t even mentioned the fact that she basically ignores my parents and family, who also live locally and always doted on her when she was growing up.  These are bitter pills to swallow when she’s your only child and you had such a special relationship- or so you thought.  I should point out that I do not nag her about anything.

Her 19th birthday is this Wednesday.  I always made a big deal of her birthday when she was growing up and my family was always a part of it.  Of course, this year is different.  She just got a new part-time job that she starts tomorrow.  After largely ignoring me for weeks at a time all this year, she contacted me yesterday by text with two questions: did I want to do something for her birthday at 8:00 on Wednesday night when she gets off work, and would I transfer “some money” to her account so she can commute to work via Uber next week.  I suspect that she’s asking if I want to do something on Wednesday (a work night) because she’s saving the weekend for her father, his family, and her friends.  As for money, I simply don’t have any to spare.  I just spent a bundle on unexpected air conditioner repairs this past week and I’m tapped out.  She spends money willy-nilly on frivolous things and this weekend has been no exception (I can see her bank account).  Hours before asking me for money (and days after receiving quite a bit of money from her paternal aunt), she spent $150 in one day on skateboard supplies, vegan snacks, vape products, cigarettes, sushi, candy, and clothes.  With me sidelined, there are absolutely no checks and balances in her life anymore.  I know she’s young and immature and I’ve tried to adjust my expectations accordingly, but she’s taking things to a pretty ridiculous level.

I responded to her text this morning and told her that I’d just had a large expense and could not send her any money.  She has not bothered to respond.  My questions: Should I feel obligated to send her transportation money anyway, even if it’s $20?  Would you set aside time on Wednesday night to take her out for her birthday or suggest another day that works better for me?  I’m open to hearing any other thoughts you might have.  My vision is so clouded when it comes to this issue.  Thank you!

[Browncoat]

I would take her out for her birthday, but I would not send her cash.

[MargeGunderson]

I wouldn’t give her money for transportation, and I wouldn’t make a big deal of her birthday, maybe a card and modest gift certificate at most. I hate to say it, but I would suspect that she only wants to get together to get her birthday gift.

I’m so sorry that’s you are going through this with her. As you said, she’s young and immature, and it sounds like her father and his family are just enabling her. My brother was similar as a teenager/young adult, but grew out of it (finally!) in his late 20s. I hope your daughter matures and comes to appreciate you and everything you’ve done for her.

[VioletNevermind]

13 minutes ago, Browncoat said:

I would take her out for her birthday, but I would not send her cash.

Thanks.  Would you take her out that night or suggest a date that isn’t late on a work night?

[VioletNevermind]

6 minutes ago, MargeGunderson said:

I wouldn’t give her money for transportation, and I wouldn’t make a big deal of her birthday, maybe a card and modest gift certificate at most. I hate to say it, but I would suspect that she only wants to get together to get her birthday gift.

I’m so sorry that’s you are going through this with her. As you said, she’s young and immature, and it sounds like her father and his family are just enabling her. My brother was similar as a teenager/young adult, but grew out of it (finally!) in his late 20s. I hope your daughter matures and comes to appreciate you and everything you’ve done for her.

Thank you.  I hope she does, too!  I have the same suspicion about her birthday.  This may not be an issue anyway.  When I returned her text hours ago to tell her that I wouldn’t be able to send money, she stopped responding. 😕

[AgentRXS]

It seems like she is just using you for money or what she can get. Definitely suggest a time that works best for you. I would count the dinner as a birthday gift.

I would let her know that she couldn't come to me for money unless it was for a medical emergency. She's spending like she is  because people are enabling her. 

[BookWoman56]

I agree with the advice to not make a big deal of her birthday. Maybe an Uber gift card for $20? Not entirely sure how those work, but presumably she wouldn’t be able to cash it in and could instead use it for commuting expenses for her new job, which is a desirable thing. 

Yes, your daughter is being ungrateful, selfish, and entitled. But with the exception of the drug use, quite possibly there’s nothing wrong with her that five years of having to support herself won’t cure. Many people go through similar stages of being self-centered jerks at this age and come out of it as reasonable adults. That said, her father is doing her no favors by enabling this behavior. From things you’ve said previously, my guess is that doing so is some kind of vengeful action on his part; that is, he’s tolerating and possibly encouraging this behavior because he knows it upsets you. Eventually he should get tired of it. Maybe when he does, she will learn to rely on herself rather than expecting everyone else to cater to her whims. 

In the meantime, focus on things to make yourself happy. It’s possible that your daughter may turn her life around, but it’s possible she will continue to make bad choices. You did provide her with a grounded life and structure while she was growing up, and now she’s of an age where she has to choose her own path. 

[Browncoat]

1 hour ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Thanks.  Would you take her out that night or suggest a date that isn’t late on a work night?

I'm torn about that piece.  On the one hand, since she suggested that night, it might be a reasonable compromise in light of the no cash gift piece.  On the other hand, it is late on a work night, and your needs should be respected.

19 minutes ago, BookWoman56 said:

Maybe an Uber gift card for $20?

Are there Uber gift cards?*  That would definitely be an excellent alternative to cash -- she would only be able to use it for what she claims to need it for.

*I don't do Uber, so I don't know how they work or whether or not there are gift cards!

Edited September 15, 2019 by Browncoat

[BookWoman56]

Yes, there are Uber gift cards; I have seen them at the grocery store, which is the only reason I knew they exist. I did just google them, to make sure I hadn’t hallucinated them, and it does sound as if they’re only redeemable through Uber, no trading in for cash. 

I have used a similar strategy with one of my siblings at times, giving her a grocery store gift card rather than cash which her husband would undoubtedly take for his own use on drugs. 

[Bastet]

2 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Should I feel obligated to send her transportation money anyway, even if it’s $20?  Would you set aside time on Wednesday night to take her out for her birthday or suggest another day that works better for me?

First, my continued sympathy about this terrible situation.

Hell no on the transportation money (unless it's as a gift card as others suggested).  As for the birthday, I think I'd go ahead and do it on a Wednesday night.  While she is acting like a real piece of shit, she's your daughter and asking to spend time with you for her birthday; go ahead and be a little tired Thursday morning.  Now, when you don't give her anything other than dinner/a gift card, and she snots off about it - because that, not time with you, is what she wanted - instead of appreciating you accommodating her schedule, you have another reason to know you need to continue backing away from her.  But I think you kind of need that confirmation, so go with her schedule so you requesting something different can't be used as a distraction.

2 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

I’m open to hearing any other thoughts you might have.

Maybe ditch the electronic connections.  By which I mean get her off your cell phone plan so she has to take care of that on her own.  No, you won't be able to track her should she follow the next five-minute love of her life somewhere.  You also won't have the option of spending emotional energy worrying about what she's doing based on her call log.  Change whatever it is that allows you to look at her bank account activity.  It doesn't help you to see what she's blowing her money on and probably harms you to have those specifics in your mind all the time. 

If you don't have the willpower not to access phone and bank data - and I wouldn't, either! - you need not to have the option.  Ignorance isn't bliss, but will worrying about the unknown really be worse than worrying daily about the info you pull up on your screen?  I think it will be easier to get caught up in your own life if you're not monitoring hers electronically.  She's screwing up like it's her job, and her father is enabling her.  You know that; you don't need the details. 

[NutMeg]

@Suzy Rhapsody, if she wants to celebrate her birthday with you on the actual day, I would say take her up on the offer, and do it as you feel like, or as you used to, including family. It doesn't have to be a late affair if you work early, and you could do it at home if easier. Just take it as an opportunity to celebrate her and show her you love her. Try not to let her get you into what you don't like about her actions. Basically, show that you're someone who'll love her, no matter what. And keep in mind that loving her is separate from not giving her all she wants or agreeing with how she lives her life. But somehow, I think it's important you keep showing her you love her, if not her choices.

(One of my great aunts was a bit like your daughter. She messed up big time but instead of asking her parents for help she never got in touch with them ever again - we think she was afraid of being judged, or maybe couldn't take "we told you so". Hard to call, as I never knew her parents, but it seems to me that maybe she felt she was only loved with conditions. This personal family history and my thoughts about it colours what I said above.)    

[BookWoman56]

I agree with @Bastet‘s suggestions on the cell phone and bank account monitoring, with a couple of caveats. Don’t take her off your cell phone plan prior to her first payday from the new job. If she ends up without a working phone prior to the start date or during her first week or two of work, she might miss a critical call or message from work and end up losing her job. That would then give her ammunition to blame you for losing her job. So, let her know that effective the day after her first paycheck, she’s off your plan and responsible for her own phone service. If she fucks that up, that’s entirely on her. 

I’m unsure how you are able to track her spending, but I am guessing that you might have a joint account with her, separate from your own checking account. If so, contact your bank to see if you can be removed from the joint account.  If not, explore options with the bank. Again, you don’t want to close the account (assuming you can do so) with no notice, if that’s the account your daughter’s paycheck gets direct deposited into. Depending on how the account is set up, you can remove yourself from the account, notify your daughter you are closing the account effective on a certain date, or request that your privileges to see her account activity be removed. 

Finally, make it clear to her that you are not her ATM. If she has a genuine emergency (medical event or needs to escape from an abusive relationship) that’s one thing. Even then, though, I would probably pay the doctor directly or buy a Uber trip, bus ticket, or whatever directly rather than provide cash. 

[VioletNevermind]

Thank you for your thoughts, everyone.  This is a tough situation, made even more so by the emotions I'm dealing with.  My brain and heart are not fun places to live right now. 

The suggestions of an Uber gift card are absolutely inspired; the perfect idea!  They're non-transferable and can't be traded in for cash.  She'll be spending about $24 per day on transportation, so she'll surely need as much Uber money as she can get.  As for a party, I told her via text that I assumed that she wouldn't want a family party this year (thinking I was letting her off the hook), considering the fact that she doesn't really keep in contact with anyone.  Incredibly, she responded that she does want one, but we'd have to fit it into her schedule and work around the party that her father's family is arranging for her.  I think that's all the confirmation I need that she's going for more of a gift grab.  This is someone who was told that her grandparents (whom she was once very close to) were having eye surgery and it might be nice to give them a quick call just to say hi- and didn't do it.  I have no control over any of it. 

I already know that Wednesday is going to be very difficult for me.  I think what I'll do is wish her a happy birthday that morning via text (she avoids phone calls with me), mention that I'm open to a conversation when she has a moment, and leave it at that.  No big birthday Instagram post, no special photo montage, no over-the-top, lovey-dovey stuff.  Just pleasant well-wishes for a nice day.  And some self-care and kindness for myself, a terribly hurting mama whose child used to be such a huge part of her life (by choice).

Here's a picture of our first 10 minutes together, almost exactly 19 years ago.  I sure as hell didn't think things would turn out like this. 

Edited September 17, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[Bastet]

24 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Here's a picture of our first 10 minutes together, almost exactly 19 years ago.  I sure as hell didn't think things would turn out like this. 

This made me tear up.  You'll be in my thoughts Wednesday.

[emma675]

Suzy Rhapsody, stop by here on Wednesday if you need some support. It's a heartbreaking situation but hopefully it's just a temporary one and she grows up quickly somehow.

[VioletNevermind]

Thank you both.  @emma675, I definitely will.  💜

[VioletNevermind]

Hi, all.  Well, today is the big day.  My daughter is 19-years-old.  I'm sad, but realizing that there's nothing I can do about any of it. 

You know I'm full of questions and this post is no exception.  Today's question is this: Do you think she should be given a family birthday party this year?  The facts: She hasn't been to my house in four months- and only a couple of times since she moved out.  I haven't seen her in two months, since the day she dismissed me out in front of her doctor's office after I took off four hours to take her to the appointment.  She prefers not to talk to me by phone and our texting frequency is spotty at best.  My parents are having major mobility issues, so they're not sure they can attend.  I heard from my daughter yesterday, asking me if we were having a party for her.  I asked if she was sure she wanted to do that, given the fact that we hardly speak (certainly not my choice) and she hasn't spoken to her family on my side at all in nearly a year.  She confirmed that, yes, she does because "they're my family and it's my birthday."  She has not attended her young cousins' birthday parties in two years because she preferred to go to her father's house and skateboard.  She has not attended any family gatherings in roughly two years, including last year's and this year's Mother's Day.  It could definitely be argued that this year might not be the best one for a family birthday party, but I just wanted to get your opinions.  I don't expect her to be a fully mature adult at 19 (especially not at her stage of life), but it certainly doesn't feel good to be ignored and mistreated, then asked what I'm going to do for her, even if it is her birthday.  If we don't (or can't because of my parents' issues) have one, what does it communicate to her?  Should she, at her age, have to take any responsibility for her actions?

Edited September 18, 2019 by Suzy Rhapsody

[theredhead77]

39 minutes ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Today's question is this: Do you think she should be given a family birthday party this year?  

I don't know anyone who still has "family birthday parties" at 18, let alone 19 so my answer is a resounding NO, especially with everything else.

Besides, she's getting one, from her dad.

She knows how to reach her grandparents and chooses not to. If something happens to them her lack of communication and visits is on her, not you and not them.

Edited September 18, 2019 by theredhead77

[VioletNevermind]

3 minutes ago, theredhead77 said:

I don't know anyone who still has "family birthday parties" at 18, let alone 19 so my answer is a resounding NO, especially with everything else.

Besides, she's getting one, from her dad.

She knows how to reach her grandparents and chooses not to. If something happens to them her lack of communication and visits is on her, not you and not them.

Thank you.  I should have mentioned that family parties are the norm in my family.  I agree with you re: communication.

[theredhead77]

1 hour ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Thank you.  I should have mentioned that family parties are the norm in my family.  I agree with you re: communication.

"Family parties are for those who participate in the family".

Since she isn't, no family party for her. Nothing is stopping individual family members from sending her a card or gift if they choose but why should they feel obligated to attend a party for someone whose actions are showing they aren't interested in participating in the family?

[MargeGunderson]

@Suzy Rhapsody, I could not agree more with @theredhead77. The family thing goes both way - she has to show up for them if they are to show up for her. From your posts it's clear she hasn't done that. She needs to feel the consequences of her actions, because she's unlikely to wake up one day and come to a sudden realization that she's been treating her family poorly. I'm thinking of you today and hope that you can draw some strength and comfort from those of us on your side.

[PRgal]

2 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Thank you.  I should have mentioned that family parties are the norm in my family.  I agree with you re: communication.

Same here.  I celebrated my 40th with my parents (and husband and son), the day before my actual birthday.  I spent my actual 40th with just my husband and my son.  

[Bastet]

3 hours ago, Suzy Rhapsody said:

Today's question is this: Do you think she should be given a family birthday party this year?

You get a party thrown for you when you're a kid.  As an adult, if you want to gather a group of people to celebrate your birthday, you send out invitations and host a party.

No, she's not actually an adult in anything other than the legal sense, but if she wants to think she is, then this is one of the lessons to learn.

If you want to pull something simple together and invite your family (who can then decide whether or not to attend), go right ahead.  But if you're not going to host any sort of family party for her this year (and I wouldn't), you shouldn't be facilitating anything.  Everyone has everyone's contact information.  If someone in your family wants to invite her over/out as a birthday treat, they can.  If she wants to reach out to someone in your family and invite them to get together, she can. 

We all know this has zip-point-shit to do with "they're my family" and everything to do with "I want presents".  So any communication will be because someone else initiated it.  That's on her.  She'll also bitch and moan that only Dad's side could be bothered to celebrate her birthday.  He'll feed on that for a week at least.  It is what it is. 

Let anyone in your family who wants to talk to/see her despite her year-long disregard for them do whatever they choose - give her a call, send her a card, invite her out to lunch or over for cake, whatever.  You do whatever you want to do with/for her.  The rest is on her.

Edited September 18, 2019 by Bastet

[BookWoman56]

Hell to the no. You wouldn’t be facilitating a family birthday party; you’d be facilitating a birthday present and money grab. If your daughter wants some outpouring of physical tokens of affection from her family, then she needs to act as if she actually cares about that family. This is a prime opportunity for her to see that if she ignores her family on a consistent basis, they are perfectly free to ignore her in return. As others have said, everyone has contact information and can send a card or gift if they want to. OTOH, if you were to organize a family party, then the invitees might feel obligated to bring a gift, when your daughter has essentially blown them off for a while now. Personally, I might be tempted to set up as if for a party, let your daughter show up anticipating presents, and then tell her nobody wanted to come, but that’s just me imagining a harsh reality check. 

[Browncoat]

I agree -- no family party.

[emma675]

Family is a two way street. Your daughter is not committed to staying in their lives, she doesn't deserve a party to be celebrated by them.