Bruce Jenner: The Interview (ABC)

[bluebonnet]

I respect that Bruce didn't care to discuss his sexual orientation in greater detail.  However, I do wish Sawyer had asked of this with one of the trans advocates she spoke with.  It's something people are genuinely interested in and it can be confusing.

 

For anyone here who is curious but unsure how to ask, trans people can have sexual orientations as varied as anyone else.  A trans woman (assigned male at birth) can be straight, lesbian, bisexual, asexual or many things along that spectrum throughout their life.  So let's say 'John' was assigned male at birth.  He lived his life acting in a traditional 'male' way.  He was exclusively attracted to women.  He knew himself to be a woman as well and so finally, she transitioned her private and public life to Jane.  Jane continues to be exclusively attracted to women.  In most cases, Jane would identify as a lesbian, though 'John' might have called himself heterosexual.  Of course, Jane might decide she does not care for a certain label and so could reject it.  Or she might decide that a label might be difficult on her loved ones (labeling herself as lesbian could require those 'John' had a relationship with to struggle to understand that their own sexuality might be something different than they knew).  Yes, it's can be quite complicated.  

 

An anecdotal fact - trans people who appear to be heterosexual when they are living their assigned-at-birth gender often transition much later in life.  There can be various reasons for this.  Sometimes it's simply not recognizing what the problem one is dealing with because everything else seems 'normal'.  For example, gender identity and sexual orientation can become conflated in public speech such that if a trans man who is living as assigned-at-birth woman finds herself attracted to men, she might imagine there is something else wrong with her since she's 'normal' in the sexuality department, with him later discovering that not only is he a man but he's a gay man. And that starts to open up a whole other can of worms.  Imagine the hardship of being a tran sperson who is also gay.  

 

If I've properly confused everyone, I do apologize.  Feel free to ask more questions if you have them and I'll answer or direct you to good articles and website.

 

In short, transpeople have all sorts of sexualities.  

Edited April 26, 2015 by maraleia
replaced transgenderism and homosexuality with gender identity and sexual orientation per correct terminology standards

[GreatKazu]

 

There were also moments where he seemed unsure.  I thought his "as far as I know" about his sexuality was interesting.

I did so too. Then, I was reminded by a FB friend (who happens to be transgender) that some transgender people, who have taken hormone therapy, ended up changing their sexual orientation. The reasons are unknown, but there are cases of people who have gone from preferring one sex to then preferring the other sex during their transgender process. I will take a stab at it and say Bruce is aware of this and since he will now go through the entire change process with no stopping this time (like he did in the 80s), he is not going to say one thing when he himself doesn't know what could happen.

Edited April 25, 2015 by GreatKazu

[RemoteControlFreak]

I can understand Kourtney's concern. One reason Bruce didn't continue with his earlier start at the process was concern over how it would affect those that he loved. Penelope and Reign are much younger, Mason knows Bruce as a man, explaining things to him, in a  way that he can understand and isn't traumatizing is important. I don't think she will keep Mason away from Bruce, but I won't criticize her for expressing concerns, I would expect her to have some.  I think she will find a way to express it to Mason that he can accept and understand and he will maintain his bond with  Bruce. Kim, despite the words of wisdom imparted to her by Yeezuz, didn't seem real anxious for North to be spending time with Bruce, he brought it up to her at one of his outings with all the girls and mentioned bonding time with North.. she sort of brushed it  off.   

it's not that complicated to explain what being trans is to a five-year-old because very little explanation is needed. Five-year-olds have no frame of reference. Mason doesn't have any other grandfather and has limited experience with 65-year-old men. 

 

If Bruce is steadily in the child's life, the child will see the gradual transformation and there is no need to discuss anything in detail unless questions come up and if they do, they can be answered simply without any "trauma."  

 

Adults tend to over-complicate things like this by assuming the child will have all the knowledge and assumptions of an adult. They do not.

David Letterman interviewed Chaz Bono a few years ago after his transition, and it was a far more probing, informative and thought-provoking interview, if anyone's interested. I'm sure there are others, too.

Diane Sawyer is a journalist, or aiming to be one.  Asking questions from a presumed point of ignorance is what journalists do.

 

David Letterman is an entertainer who asks questions of (mostly) celebrities. His job is to entertain.

 

The two roles are very different.

I did so too. Then, I was reminded by a FB friend (who happens to be transgender) that some transgender people, who have taken hormone therapy, ended up changing their sexual preference. 

The preferred term is "sexual orientation," not "sexual preference."

Edited April 26, 2015 by maraleia
replaced transgenderism with being trans per correct terminology standards

[Guest]

I did so too. Then, I was reminded by a FB friend (who happens to be transgender) that some transgender people, who have taken hormone therapy, ended up changing their sexual orientation. The reasons are unknown, but there are cases of people who have gone from preferring one sex to then preferring the other sex during their transgender process. I will take a stab at it and say Bruce is aware of this and since he will now go through the entire change process with no stopping this time (like he did in the 80s), he is not going to say one thing when he himself doesn't know what could happen.

Thanks, that helps me understand.

[GreatKazu]

 

The preferred term is "sexual orientation," not "sexual preference."

See what happens when I don't get enough sleep and there is no coffee? Thanks for correcting my post.

[LotusFlower]

Diane Sawyer is a journalist, or aiming to be one.  Asking questions from a presumed point of ignorance is what journalists do.

 

David Letterman is an entertainer who asks questions of (mostly) celebrities. His job is to entertain.

 

The two roles are very different.

I'm not sure I understand your point. If anything, I would think the journalist would ask the more probing questions, and ask questions that illicited more clarity and info. and thought-provoking answers. I found it to be the other way around.

[Fostersmom]

The lack of pronouns and sexual presence didn't surprise me. I used to have my hair cut by a transgender male. He would be done up in full make up and heels, but get pissed if someone called him she. Even after he started transitioning to female, had a lot of plastic surgery to the face and huge boobs, he got pissed when he had to go to court for a traffic incident and the cop called him she repeatedly (ignoring the fact he was by then going by a female version of his name) because he had only made "additions and not subtractions" his words, to his body and therefore was still a male on his driver's license. Which was kind of hypocritical since for YEARS he had been thrilled and encouraged it when people took him for a woman, and honestly, took kind of dangerous glee in tricking men into thinking he was a woman. He's lucky that never got him seriously hurt and other than the fact he was pretty well known for it in our little town that others in bars would clue strangers in if he was in a mood that night, most didn't want to see him hurt and that probably kept him safe. 

 

I did notice Bruce really looks a lot like his older sister now. There's some strong genes in that family, all around. Casey looks sooo much like her mom (and a lot like Bruce's second wife oddly enough and Brandon's wife too), Brandon and Brody are clones of each other and Brody has strong Bruce genes, and Kendall and Kylie have a lot of the natural looks of Kris and their half sisters, before all the plastic surgery. The whole family, all branches, is like a study in genetics.

 

As young as Mason is, it might be a little confusing to him a first, but he's also at the age that he would probably give it 3 seconds of thought and go oh, okay and go on with his little day. Kourtney should worry more about Scott's dealing with it than Mason's. 

Edited April 25, 2015 by Fostersmom

[GaT]

Looks like ABC scored big

http://xfinity.comcast.net/articles/entertainment/20150425/US-TV-ABC-Jenner-Ratings/

[Morbs]

I don't think Bruce saying he is going to change the world is laughable at all.  Pop culture has a profound affect on us all; just look at how Will & Grace is credited with making strides for the gay community when it was just an unevenly written sitcom or Ellen being a fixture in daytime.  Art is what causes social movements, sure his reality show won't be high quality, but it could make a difference.  The more awareness regarding this issue will hopefully save lives.  I thought he meant "we" are going to change the world as in he and his team and whatever foundation  or lecture store he starts and the crew of his show.

 

Cosign with everyone who thinks Kris is waiting for her own interview.

[Pjxf99]

I'm sorry, I just cannot support Bruce's lifestyle choices. If he's going to come out as a Republican, he's on his own.

(rimshot)

Seriously, I've worked with transgender teenagers in a therapeutic setting, and I've seen how much they and their families suffer. If Bruce can use his celebrity to help in any way, I think this is great. One girl I worked with was so unhappy in her own body and her mother told me she originally thought it was a tomboy or lesbian 'phase'. The girl's father was the one who pulled his wife aside and said 'hey, you didn't even like it when your parents made you cut your hair...you're going to tell her what gender she has to be? Let her be herself or we'll lose our child. '

I honestly don't know how much this will matter to young kids, but someone like Bruce Jenner being in the spotlight might help parents be more accepting.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

I could not care less that Bruce is a Republican and would love to see his support of the party influence the party into having more open and widespread support of the LGBT movement and people.

THIS.

And with regard to Bruce being a Republican ... the majority of wealthy American professional athletes are conservative and Republicans.

I think it's probably more accurate to say the majority of wealthy WHITE American professional male athletes are conservative and Republicans. Edited April 25, 2015 by MyPeopleAreNordic

[tanyak]

it's not that complicated to explain what being trans is to a five-year-old because very little explanation is needed. Five-year-olds have no frame of reference. Mason doesn't have any other grandfather and has limited experience with 65-year-old men. 

 

If Bruce is steadily in the child's life, the child will see the gradual transformation and there is no need to discuss anything in detail unless questions come up and if they do, they can be answered simply without any "trauma."  

 

Adults tend to over-complicate things like this by assuming the child will have all the knowledge and assumptions of an adult. They do not."

I see Kourtney's point. My son is also five years old (he and Mason were born about a week apart). The last several months, he has become very locked into what is "boy" and what is "girl." No doubt the influence of his pre-K peers. For example, just a few weeks ago he was happy to watch our copy of "Frozen." Now he claims that is for girls, and he doesn't want to bother with it. We have been trying to explain to him that things don't have to be boy versus girl, but in his five-year-old mind , that's where he is. So if Papa, who he knows is a boy, started wearing dresses and wearing make up, he would be very confused. We would try to come up with a way to explain it to him, but I do think he would think a lot about it. So I do understand what she is saying. Other 5-year-old boys might not get hung up on it, but I could certainly see it happening with my son. Especially if a trip to the grocery store meant looking at tabloids Photoshop make-up on Papa's face.

[MyPeopleAreNordic]

This interview has given me a whole new respect for Bruce Jenner.

And it's also slightly elevated my opinion of Kim and Kanye, which I hate.

Casey Jenner is gorgeous.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I'm not sure I understand your point. If anything, I would think the journalist would ask the more probing questions, and ask questions that illicited more clarity and info. and thought-provoking answers. I found it to be the other way around.

I thought she asked sufficiently probing questions that seemed to elicit some thought and clarify from Jenner.  But the format has to also be appropriate for an audience that probably, for the most part, is hearing the term "gender dysphoria" for the first time and has little idea what being trans is. And it has to fit with the extensive use of voice-over narrative and video clips that the show employed.  Putting Bruce in a chair in a dark room, a la Charlie Rose, and letting him give five minute answers would turn off the middle America, Kardashian-following audience who have the most to learn and gain from Jenner's revelation.

[SFoster21]

THIS.

I think it's probably more accurate to say the majority of wealthy WHITE American professional male athletes are conservative and Republicans.

Please! Bruce in a dress carrying a Ted Cruz banner. Waiting for it.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I see Kourtney's point. My son is also five years old (he and Mason were born about a week apart). The last several months, he has become very locked into what is "boy" and what is "girl." No doubt the influence of his pre-K peers. For example, just a few weeks ago he was happy to watch our copy of "Frozen." Now he claims that is for girls, and he doesn't want to bother with it. We have been trying to explain to him that things don't have to be boy versus girl, but in his five-year-old mind , that's where he is. So if Papa, who he knows is a boy, started wearing dresses and wearing make up, he would be very confused. We would try to come up with a way to explain it to him, but I do think he would think a lot about it. So I do understand what she is saying. Other 5-year-old boys might not get hung up on it, but I could certainly see it happening with my son. Especially if a trip to the grocery store meant looking at tabloids Photoshop make-up on Papa's face.

First of all, I would hope that Bruce doesn't just suddenly start wearing dresses in Mason's presence. I would hope it's a gradual transition both for Bruce and for those around him.  

 

Second, and more importantly, so what if your son, or Mason, is confused?  There is nothing dirty or pornographic or, even sexual, about someone going through a gender transformation.  So what if Mason says, "Why is grandpa wearing a dress?"  Kourtney can simply answer, "Because he's more comfortable that way."  Hiding this from Mason only serves to create yet another child who will grow into an adult who is afraid of any minority gender expression. This is what leads to the discriminatory and hate-filled atmosphere that is pervasive in our society.

 

Third, if Kourtney is afraid of what Mason will see on supermarket tabloids, that ship sailed a long time ago.  I'd wager a guess that it's more traumatizing for Mason to see daily tabloid covers that claim his father is not his real father, is having an affair with his teenage aunt, and about to die of a drug overdose, or any other of the sordid things that the Kris Jenner pimp machine has led to in the tabloid press.  For example:  http://tinyurl.com/disicktabloid

[tanyak]

 

Second, and more importantly, so what if your son, or Mason, is confused?  There is nothing dirty or pornographic or, even sexual, about someone going through a gender transformation.  So what if Mason says, "Why is grandpa wearing a dress?"  Kourtney can simply answer, "Because he's more comfortable that way."  Hiding this from Mason only serves to create yet another child who will grow into an adult who is afraid of any minority gender expression. This is what leads to the discriminatory and hate-filled atmosphere that is pervasive in our society.

I didn't say it was dirty or pornographic, nor did I suggest it was something that needed to be hidden. I just said he would be confused. End of sentence. People can be confused/not understand something. And I said we would explain it. I was responding to the comment, and I don't know who made it, that said this would basically just go right over Mason's head.

[RemoteControlFreak]

I didn't say it was dirty or pornographic, nor did I suggest it was something that needed to be hidden. I just said he would be confused. End of sentence. People can be confused/not understand something. And I said we would explain it. I was responding to the comment, and I don't know who made it, that said this would basically just go right over Mason's head.

The first sentence of your post was, "I see Kourtney's point."  And Kourtney's point is that she is concerned about the effect of Bruce's transition on Mason.  You also said, "We would try to come up with a way to explain it to him, but I do think he would think a lot about it. So I do understand what she is saying."  My point is that there is little to be concerned about.  Hiding Bruce's transition from Mason is worse than being open about it.

 

You also said that you understood if Kourtney is concerned about Mason seeing make-up on Bruce's face in the tabloids.  And I said, So what? So what if he sees make-up on Bruce's face.  There is nothing wrong with him seeing this.  If Kourtney is worried about what Mason is seeing on Tabloid covers, she should remove herself and her family from the reality TV show that leads to daily tabloid reports about Mason's father doing terrible things.

[jacksgirl]

Never have watched the Kardashians, but admired Bruce as an athlete. Just wanted to chime in that the fact that wife 1 and wife 2 are supportive, along with his mom and sister are very telling. Also, the Huff Post article by second wife Linda is amazing. I want to be her friend.

[Guest]

Yeah, I see Kourtney's point.  It would open up for some tough questions for a little kid, and possibly also some teasing from other kids.   I don't think anyone is suggesting she hide it from Mason, or Bruce hide from the world.  Any mom would be concerned for their kids in that situation.  

 

It's not just "grandpa prefers to wear a dress".  Grandpa prefers to be called Aunt Heather and "she" and to live in girl clothes and makeup but is not really a woman, but is kind of, and is changing.  

[iwasish]

I believe Kanye said that too because, 1, it was ME ME ME, and 2, he referred to Kim and North practically as pretty possessions.

I believe they were in love. 23 years and two kids (plus 4) is a long time. If Kris was in it only for the money, she could've ended it long before now. I don't know if she ever needed him for income but she definitely didn't once her show became a hit.

I had to give him credit for zinging Diane when she suggested he couldn't even wear pretty clothes due to his age.

I thought as the show and as the fortune grew Kris's tolerance for Bruce waned. Looking at clips now , you can see moments where she basically looks at him in disgust and treats him more like household help than a husband. IMO the show gave her access to what was missing in her life and marriage. She wanted to be out and about, in nightclubs and parties and events. He had no interest in that. Or maybe he yearned to dress up in the pretty dresses and do mani pedis with Kris and the girls and he withdrew because that was forbidden to him. I wish Diane had asked if it was painful to be in such a female centric home and not be able to be "her". I imagine it must have been hell.

[thefog]

First of all, I would hope that Bruce doesn't just suddenly start wearing dresses in Mason's presence. I would hope it's a gradual transition both for Bruce and for those around him.  

 

Second, and more importantly, so what if your son, or Mason, is confused?  There is nothing dirty or pornographic or, even sexual, about someone going through a gender transformation.  So what if Mason says, "Why is grandpa wearing a dress?"  Kourtney can simply answer, "Because he's more comfortable that way."  Hiding this from Mason only serves to create yet another child who will grow into an adult who is afraid of any minority gender expression. This is what leads to the discriminatory and hate-filled atmosphere that is pervasive in our society.

 

Third, if Kourtney is afraid of what Mason will see on supermarket tabloids, that ship sailed a long time ago.  I'd wager a guess that it's more traumatizing for Mason to see daily tabloid covers that claim his father is not his real father, is having an affair with his teenage aunt, and about to die of a drug overdose, or any other of the sordid things that the Kris Jenner pimp machine has led to in the tabloid press.  For example:  http://tinyurl.com/disicktabloid

First off, it was Diane Sawyer that specifically asked Bruce about Kourtney's reaction.  And I suspect that was a lead in to what Bruce's transition will have on the grandkids.  This was a perfectly legitimate question.  I actually think it would have been irresponsible if it this wasn't brought.  Nobody said anything about the tabloids, which is nonsense gossip to begin with.

 

Whereas what Bruce is going through is life changing that does impact his family.  Any parent would ask the same question.

Edited April 25, 2015 by escape

[Morbs]

I assumed Kourtney was more concerned with bullying.  She could give some vague answers, like she would with anything complicated like sex or 9/11 when a child asks about them, and the kid would most likely lose interest and start watching a bug or something.

[tanyak]

I did mention the tabloids in my comments, but I meant it as a side comment. But remotecontrolfreak is right--Bruce in make-up is the least of that poor child's worries. I forgot about Scott and his shenanigans.

[RemoteControlFreak]

First off, it was Diane Sawyer that specifically asked Bruce about Kourtney's reaction.  And I suspect that was a lead in to what Bruce's transition will have on the grandkids.  This was a perfectly legitimate question.  I actually think it would have been irresponsible if it this wasn't brought.  Nobody said anything about the tabloids, etc.

I don't think she asked specifically about Kourtney.  She asked what his kids' reactions were.  That's when Bruce said that Kourtney was only worried about her kids and specifically about Mason because he's five. It did not seem like a deliberate attempt to get Bruce to talk about his step-grandkids.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Diane's question, but I disagree that Kourtney has anything to worry about with Mason. Yes, his grandfather's change is not what every kid's grandfather does and may cause some questions, but it should not be hidden from Mason. There is nothing inherently adult about gender dysphoria.  And it can be explained in very general and simple terms that a kid can understand.  

 

Being open with young children about human differences is an important way to stop them from becoming afraid and prejudiced as adults.

 

And yes, neither Diane, Bruce nor Kourtney said anything about the tabloids, but it was stated by two posters here that Kourtney could be wary of Mason seeing Bruce's changing image in tabloids, a point with which I disagreed. If Kourtney were concerned about the tabloids, she wouldn't put herself, Mason's father, and Mason himself on their tabloid-feeding reality TV show.

 

I also wonder how much contact Bruce ever has had with Mason or even with Kourtney.  I've only watched a handful of Keeping up with the Kardashian episodes and only in the last year or so to see the Bruce "storyline." I don't remember seeing them spending much time together. Kourtney was already a teenager when Bruce and Kris married and presumably out of the house soon after. I don't get the sense that she and Bruce have much of a relationship.

Edited April 26, 2015 by remotecontrolfreak

[bluebonnet]

The first sentence of your post was, "I see Kourtney's point."  And Kourtney's point is that she is concerned about the effect of Bruce's transition on Mason.  You also said, "We would try to come up with a way to explain it to him, but I do think he would think a lot about it. So I do understand what she is saying."  My point is that there is little to be concerned about.  Hiding Bruce's transition from Mason is worse than being open about it.

 

You also said that you understood if Kourtney is concerned about Mason seeing make-up on Bruce's face in the tabloids.  And I said, So what? So what if he sees make-up on Bruce's face.  There is nothing wrong with him seeing this.  If Kourtney is worried about what Mason is seeing on Tabloid covers, she should remove herself and her family from the reality TV show that leads to daily tabloid reports about Mason's father doing terrible things.

I think you are taking this way out of context.  Kourtney is concerned about how to discuss this with her child.  This sounds completely reasonable, whether or not they are public figures.  It has nothing to do about hiding anything or imparting some sort of shame.  Parents can be concerned about discussing all sorts of things with their children, from health eating to how to brush their teeth to dealing with bullying.  Parents want to make sure they explain things appropriately to their children and they want to make sure they can answer the questions their children have.  End of story. There is nothing wrong with a parent having this concern and it doesn't mean what you keep insisting it means.  

[Guest]

I don't think she asked specifically about Kourtney.  She asked what his kids' reactions were.  That's when Bruce said that Kourtney was only worried about her kids and specifically about Mason because he's five. It did not seem like a deliberate attempt to get Bruce to talk about his step-grandkids.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Diane's question, but I disagree that Kourtney has anything to worry about with Mason. Yes, his grandfather's change is not what every kid's grandfather does and may cause some questions, but it should not be hidden from Mason. There is nothing inherently adult about gender dysphoria.  And it can be explained in very general and simple terms that a kid can understand.  

 

Being open with young children about human differences is an important way to stop them from becoming afraid and prejudiced as adults.

 

And yes, neither Diane, Bruce nor Kourtney said anything about the tabloids, but it was stated by two posters here that Kourtney could be wary of Mason seeing Bruce's changing image in tabloids, a point with which I disagreed. If Kourtney were concerned about the tabloids, she wouldn't put herself, Mason's father, and Mason himself on their tabloid-feeding reality TV show.

 

I also wonder how much contact Bruce ever has had with Mason or even with Kourtney.  I've only watched a handful of Keeping up with the Kardashian episodes and only in the last year or so to see the Bruce "storyline." I don't remember seeing them spending much time together. Kourtney was already a teenager when Bruce and Kris married and presumably out of the house soon after. I don't get the sense that she and Bruce have much of a relationship.

Who said anything about hiding it from Mason?

 

I've seen lots of footage of Bruce and Mason together.  He was a very present, loving, hands-on grandfather.  

 

Unless you have a 5 year old and a transitioning parent I don't think you can say she has nothing to worry about.  

[LotusFlower]

I thought she asked sufficiently probing questions that seemed to elicit some thought and clarify from Jenner.  But the format has to also be appropriate for an audience that probably, for the most part, is hearing the term "gender dysphoria" for the first time and has little idea what transgenderism is. And it has to fit with the extensive use of voice-over narrative and video clips that the show employed.  Putting Bruce in a chair in a dark room, a la Charlie Rose, and letting him give five minute answers would turn off the middle America, Kardashian-following audience who have the most to learn and gain from Jenner's revelation.

I think this is really talking down to the audience. Any journalist worth his or her salt wants to inform and enlighten the audience, not pander to it. And there's certainly a middle ground between superficial interviews and the dark room/Charlie Rose-type that you described. The David Letterman interview with Chaz Bono that I cited is just one example.

[thefog]

I don't think she asked specifically about Kourtney.  She asked what his kids' reactions were.  That's when Bruce said that Kourtney was only worried about her kids and specifically about Mason because he's five. It did not seem like a deliberate attempt to get Bruce to talk about his step-grandkids.  

 

There's nothing wrong with Diane's question, but I disagree that Kourtney has anything to worry about with Mason. Yes, his grandfather's change is not what every kid's grandfather does and may cause some questions, but it should not be hidden from Mason. There is nothing inherently adult about gender dysphoria.  And it can be explained in very general and simple terms that a kid can understand.  

 

Being open with young children about human differences is an important way to stop them from becoming afraid and prejudiced as adults.

 

And yes, neither Diane, Bruce nor Kourtney said anything about the tabloids, but it was stated by two posters here that Kourtney could be wary of Mason seeing Bruce's changing image in tabloids, a point with which I disagreed. If Kourtney were concerned about the tabloids, she wouldn't put herself, Mason's father, and Mason himself on their tabloid-feeding reality TV show.

 

I also wonder how much contact Bruce ever has had with Mason or even with Kourtney.  I've only watched a handful of Keeping up with the Kardashian episodes and only in the last year or so to see the Bruce "storyline." I don't remember seeing them spending much time together. Kourtney was already a teenager when Bruce and Kris married and presumably out of the house soon after. I don't get the sense that she and Bruce have much of a relationship.

I actually have the interview on DVR, and it was Diane Sawyer that brought up Kourtney's name.  And that's when Bruce said that the only concern she had were the kids, specifically Mason.  He said he's only 5 yrs old and that kids are resilient.

I don't think she was coming from a negative place at all.  She was being an informed parent.  I also thought that was something that needed to be addressed for the viewers.

Edited April 26, 2015 by escape

[CaughtOnTape]

I think you are taking this way out of context.  Kourtney is concerned about how to discuss this with her child.  This sounds completely reasonable, whether or not they are public figures.  It has nothing to do about hiding anything or imparting some sort of shame.  Parents can be concerned about discussing all sorts of things with their children, from health eating to how to brush their teeth to dealing with bullying.  Parents want to make sure they explain things appropriately to their children and they want to make sure they can answer the questions their children have.  End of story. There is nothing wrong with a parent having this concern and it doesn't mean what you keep insisting it means.  

 

I think remotecontrolfreak is dead on and 100% correct.  I also don't think what remotecontrolfreak is saying is that anyone is a bad parent, just that they are concerned about the wrong things.  In my experience with kids, they don't know there's something to be concerned about until someone, usually an adult, tells them there's something to be concerned about.  If Mason notices something, then discuss it with him, ask him what he thinks about it and then move on.  She can be concerned with bullying, but not over and above any other bullying Mason may encounter (which, lets be honest....between his father and his grandmother....the fact that his step-grandfather wears a dress is the least this kid should be concerned with).

[bluebonnet]

I think remotecontrolfreak is dead on and 100% correct.  I also don't think what remotecontrolfreak is saying is that anyone is a bad parent, just that they are concerned about the wrong things.  In my experience with kids, they don't know there's something to be concerned about until someone, usually an adult, tells them there's something to be concerned about.  If Mason notices something, then discuss it with him, ask him what he thinks about it and then move on.  She can be concerned with bullying, but not over and above any other bullying Mason may encounter (which, lets be honest....between his father and his grandmother....the fact that his step-grandfather wears a dress is the least this kid should be concerned with).

What seems to be happening here is that other people are deciding that a parents concern means X, when nothing of the sort was stated.  There is not a single way to express a concern.  It's not like if I say "I'm concerned about how to discuss brushing teeth with my toddler" that I only mean that I intend to make tooth brushing some stressful daily chore.  It simply means that I have a vague set of concerns and need to learn more.  

 

Parents constantly come to our center asking how to discuss an adult transition with children.  Usually parents who are concerned are those who want to learn the best possible way to educate and answer questions for their children.  I would never imagine that a parent who has concerns is doing something wrong.  

[Guest]

Again, it's a little more than "wears a dress".  

 

I think Scott Disick's alcohol problems are 90% reality tv bs like the rest of their show.  I know real alcoholics and they don't trot it out for the cameras every chance they get.  I'm sure Scott does struggle with moderation like many, many people, but I don't think Kourtney would keep having his kids if there was really any serious concern over his parenting abilities.  And we're talking about gender reassignment here.  It's not really comparable.  

[RemoteControlFreak]

I actually have the interview on DVR, and it was Diane Sawyer that brought up Kourtney's name.  And that's when Bruce said that the only concern she had were the kids, specifically Mason.  He said he's only 5 yrs old and that kids are resilient.

I don't think she was coming from a negative place at all.  She was being an informed parent.  I also thought that was something that needed to be addressed for the viewers.

You're right. Diane did say, "And Kourtney?" And Bruce, responded, "Her only concern is her kids. You know, especially Mason. He's five. But kids, I've noticed, kids are very adaptable."

 

I interpreted this that Kourtney has some concern about telling Mason or exposing him to what's going on and Bruce disagrees because he thinks kids are adaptable so Kourtney doesn't have to worry.

[RemoteControlFreak]

Again, it's a little more than "wears a dress".  

 

I think Scott Disick's alcohol problems are 90% reality tv bs like the rest of their show.  I know real alcoholics and they don't trot it out for the cameras every chance they get.  I'm sure Scott does struggle with moderation like many, many people, but I don't think Kourtney would keep having his kids if there was really any serious concern over his parenting abilities.  And we're talking about gender reassignment here.  It's not really comparable.  

The discussion was only about Kourtney's possible tabloid coverage and Mason's exposure to that. It was not about Scott's actual behavior. It's about what's shown on supermarket tabloid papers.

 

Do you really think it's worse to expose Mason to a tabloid cover showing Bruce in makeup than to a tabloid cover claiming his father is having sex with Kylie, is not really Mason's father, and is drinking himself to death? The original post a few hours ago, claimed that Kourtney would be worried about Mason seeing tabloids with Bruce in make-up.

 

But then, do Kardashians actually ever go to the supermarket or do they hire someone to do that for them?  The concern about tabloid exposure may be a moot point.

Edited April 26, 2015 by remotecontrolfreak

[millennium]

Jenner actually said, "WE are going to change the world." I assume when he said that, he is referring to others, like him, who are coming out and moving forward with their transgender change.

 

People have been transitioning and having SRS for decades now, without fanfare and without exploiting their situation for profit or publicity.   Bruce Jenner is no pioneer.  In fact, he's no representative or champion of any kind for transgender people.

 

Jenner's experience is worlds apart from the other 700,000 transgender people estimated to be living in the United States.   He leads a life of luxury and privilege.  He is so famous that no one in the lofty strata of society he occupies would dare mock, abuse or discriminate against him for fear of a public relations backlash.   Not so for the average transgender person who has to seriously think about their personal safety before just walking down the street or trying to use a public bathroom.

 

Bruce Jenner will never worry about getting proper medical care, or trying to scrape the money together to make his face and body look right.  He'll never have to work as a prostitute or some other part of the sex trade to get that money, or some minimum wage job far below his qualifications just to put a roof over his head.   He'll never have to fear being beaten when he goes out.   Really, compared to the average transgender person, Bruce Jenner has virtually no worries at all.

 

Rejection was never a risk for Jenner.   There was no chance he would face disapproval after that interview.    In America, if you have money and you can command a spotlight, you'll always be welcome.   Even if you kill a woman with your car.  And Jenner has been priming that spotlight for quite awhile now.

 

Transgender people have been struggling for a very long time and have made progress in recent years.   The people responsible for those advances are the ones who are changing the world, not Bruce Jenner.   They have names America will  never know.    In part because America doesn't care about ordinary transgender people and will still ridicule anyone who looks like a man in a dress who doesn't happen to be rich or famous.   But also because Bruce Jenner put his ego and bank account ahead of their hard-fought accomplishments and appointed himself the new symbol of transgender America.

[CaughtOnTape]

People have been transitioning and having SRS for decades now, without fanfare and without exploiting their situation for profit or publicity.   Bruce Jenner is no pioneer.  In fact, he's no representative or champion of any kind for transgender people.

 

Jenner's experience is worlds apart from the other 700,000 transgender people estimated to be living in the United States.   He leads a life of luxury and privilege.  He is so famous that no one in the lofty strata of society he occupies would dare mock, abuse or discriminate against him for fear of a public relations backlash.   Not so for the average transgender person who has to seriously think about their personal safety before just walking down the street or trying to use a public bathroom.

 

Bruce Jenner will never worry about getting proper medical care, or trying to scrape the money together to make his face and body look right.  He'll never have to work as a prostitute or some other part of the sex trade to get that money, or some minimum wage job far below his qualifications just to put a roof over his head.   He'll never have to fear being beaten when he goes out.   Really, compared to the average transgender person, Bruce Jenner has virtually no worries at all.

 

Rejection was never a risk for Jenner.   There was no chance he would face disapproval after that interview.    In America, if you have money and you can command a spotlight, you'll always be welcome.   Even if you kill a woman with your car.  And Jenner has been priming that spotlight for quite awhile now.

 

Transgender people have been struggling for a very long time and have made progress in recent years.   The people responsible for those advances are the ones who are changing the world, not Bruce Jenner.   They have names America will  never know.    In part because America doesn't care about ordinary transgender people and will still ridicule anyone who looks like a man in a dress who doesn't happen to be rich or famous.   But also because Bruce Jenner put his ego and bank account ahead of their hard-fought accomplishments and appointed himself the new symbol of transgender America.

 

I think this is unfair.

 

He's famous and may not have to worry about things like adequate medical care and money issues surrounding gender transition, but he's constantly mocked.  Look at all the comedians making jokes that were shown last night.  He's doing this in the public eye.  While the world is watching.  And maybe that's where he's got a different perspective on things when he states things like changing the world.  

 

Bruce Jenner is a big deal.  Whether some people like it or not.  He's athlete royalty.  He's still considered one of the greatest Olympians to ever live.  Regardless of what's happened on some stupid Reality TV show he's a part of, the Olympian thing in itself puts him squarely in every household in America.  

 

And regardless of what some people may think of him personally, he opened up a dialogue now.  One that people were still sweeping under the rug even with the transgender movement happening.  A man everyone considered to be the pinnacle of masculinity always thought he was a woman.  He at least deserves credit for that.

[millennium]

Bruce Jenner is a big deal.  Whether some people like it or not.  He's athlete royalty.  He's still considered one of the greatest Olympians to ever live.  Regardless of what's happened on some stupid Reality TV show he's a part of, the Olympian thing in itself puts him squarely in every household in America.  

 

And regardless of what some people may think of him personally, he opened up a dialogue now.  One that people were still sweeping under the rug even with the transgender movement happening.  A man everyone considered to be the pinnacle of masculinity always thought he was a woman.  He at least deserves credit for that.

 

A man who amassed a fortune perpetuating and reinforcing male stereotypes -- until it was profitable not to.   Real helpful to transgender people.   Go, Bruce.

[GreatKazu]

 

Bruce Jenner is no pioneer.  In fact, he's no representative or champion of any kind for transgender people.

 

I am certain he is not pushing for a certain icon status or to be the representative of transgender people. Bruce just happens to be a former Olympian, actor, and overall well-known person who has been in the spotlight for at least 6 years now due to the reality show that we are all aware of.  Bruce doesn't need to apologize for having the money and the means to go through this process. She probably would have preferred to have done this as a private individual, but that didn't happen.

 

A quote from Chaz Bono:

 

 

“When I discovered I was really transgender, I felt like my world was going to fall apart. It took me over 10 years to come up with the courage that I needed in order to start transitioning and finally be myself. One of my goals since starting my transition, and believe me when I say if I could have done it privately, I probably would have done it years ago, but the idea of having to transition in front of the whole world was something that really terrified me. So when I finally did get the courage to do it, I wanted to take the opportunity to try and do it in a way where I could educate the public and shine light on what it means to be transgender.

 

http://www.ontopmag.com/article.aspx?id=10084&MediaType=1&Category=22

 

Bruce saying "we are going to change the world" infers to me that she is proud to be part of a group of people who have been around for a very, very long time and how they will do what they can to educate and inform the public, just as Chaz stated in that quote above. Bruce hopes to be one of many who will pave the way for those who have been hiding their feelings for years and to help ease the journey of those who have felt the rejection from society. Being a transgender, hopefully will be looked up differently because of those who have come out.

 

Some have noted how catty Bruce was for mentioning the weight of the Russian athlete he competed against. I guess he is truly a woman. Many woman tend to criticize other women for their weight, their clothing, their hair, their overall looks.

Edited April 26, 2015 by GreatKazu

[RemoteControlFreak]

I see your point, millennium.  Yes, Bruce has enormous privilege and wealth, which insulates him from some of the difficulties and real dangers that an average transgender person faces.  I don't think he ever claims it does not.

 

And, yes, of course, people have been transitioning for years, most, but not all, without fanfare.  But, again, Bruce is a famous person and has been an icon of male physicalness.  So he can't hide his transition, even if he wants to.  The best he can do is to be open about it and he is.  

 

Like it or not, having the former world's greatest athlete and TV reality show dad transition will change the perception of gender transition more than any other person, ever.  This will change the world's perception of what it means to be transgender.  

 

I also think it's unfair on your part to say that Bruce "has virtually no worries at all."  There's much more to transitioning than worrying about not having money or being beaten up in a public bathroom. Yes, Bruce is lucky that he doesn't have to worry about that.  This is a long way from saying he has no worries at all.

 

And your insinuation that Bruce killed a woman with a car is also completely unfair. He was part of a four-car accident in which one person, tragically, died.  There have been no charges filed.

[iwasish]

You're right. Diane did say, "And Kourtney?" And Bruce, responded, "Her only concern is her kids. You know, especially Mason. He's five. But kids, I've noticed, kids are very adaptable."

I interpreted this that Kourtney has some concern about telling Mason or exposing him to what's going on and Bruce disagrees because he thinks kids are adaptable so Kourtney doesn't have to worry.

Bruce may have stated that kids are adaptable but he also was concerned about the reactions of his own adult children and feared hurting them. He was quite emotional about it. i didn't take his comment about Kourts concern to be that he considered it foolish or unimportant. He seemed to accept it as a normal concern. Just because children seem to adapt to things doesn't mean they haven't been affected by them. Bruce himself, along with Linda Thompson, has stated that he pretty much abandoned his sons for a number of years. They may have adapted to that circumstance, it doesn't mean they were not affected by it.

Kourtney having concerns isn't a negative thing. If she is accepting of Bruce's change (and there was no hint that she wasn't) and is able to address any questions or issues the children have, things should go smoothly. Bruce has other grandchildren, how old are they? I would think their parents even if they are 100% behind their dad, have "concerns" for their children.

[millennium]

Like it or not, having the former world's greatest athlete and TV reality show dad transition will change the perception of gender transition more than any other person, ever.  This will change the world's perception of what it means to be transgender.  

 

And that's the problem.

[RemoteControlFreak]

And that's the problem.

How is it a problem?

Edited April 26, 2015 by remotecontrolfreak

[txhorns79]

I also think it's unfair on your part to say that Bruce "has virtually no worries at all."  There's much more to transitioning than worrying about not having money or being beaten up in a public bathroom. Yes, Bruce is lucky that he doesn't have to worry about that.  This is a long way from saying he has no worries at all.

 

I think if you saw the interview, Bruce very clearly has a lot of worries related to his transition and being transgender.

[LotusFlower]

Like it or not, having the former world's greatest athlete and TV reality show dad transition will change the perception of gender transition more than any other person, ever. This will change the world's perception of what it means to be transgender.

I think this would be a bigger deal if he did this shortly after the Olympics, say in the late 70's or early 80's, because of what a big deal he was back then, and of course because of his status as an Olympic athlete. But he's mostly known now as a kind of hapless, emasculated Father's Knows Least (NYT nickname) of an almost universally loathed money-hungry, famewhoring reality TV family. To say he comes with baggage is putting it mildly. If he changes some people's minds, more power to him, but I don't think it will be groundbreaking.

[Guest]

People have been transitioning and having SRS for decades now, without fanfare and without exploiting their situation for profit or publicity.   Bruce Jenner is no pioneer.  In fact, he's no representative or champion of any kind for transgender people.

 

Jenner's experience is worlds apart from the other 700,000 transgender people estimated to be living in the United States.   He leads a life of luxury and privilege.  He is so famous that no one in the lofty strata of society he occupies would dare mock, abuse or discriminate against him for fear of a public relations backlash.   Not so for the average transgender person who has to seriously think about their personal safety before just walking down the street or trying to use a public bathroom.

 

Bruce Jenner will never worry about getting proper medical care, or trying to scrape the money together to make his face and body look right.  He'll never have to work as a prostitute or some other part of the sex trade to get that money, or some minimum wage job far below his qualifications just to put a roof over his head.   He'll never have to fear being beaten when he goes out.   Really, compared to the average transgender person, Bruce Jenner has virtually no worries at all.

 

Rejection was never a risk for Jenner.   There was no chance he would face disapproval after that interview.    In America, if you have money and you can command a spotlight, you'll always be welcome.   Even if you kill a woman with your car.  And Jenner has been priming that spotlight for quite awhile now.

 

Transgender people have been struggling for a very long time and have made progress in recent years.   The people responsible for those advances are the ones who are changing the world, not Bruce Jenner.   They have names America will  never know.    In part because America doesn't care about ordinary transgender people and will still ridicule anyone who looks like a man in a dress who doesn't happen to be rich or famous.   But also because Bruce Jenner put his ego and bank account ahead of their hard-fought accomplishments and appointed himself the new symbol of transgender America.

If I had to choose between scraping to complete a trans in relative privacy or dodging paparazzi and being the butt of talk show jokes, I'd take the former, to be honest.  

 

Rejection was a huge risk for him.  He has been and will continue to be largely ridiculed.  He helped himself out with this interview but the world is still full of people who consider him a vain, celebrity freak.  

[Rick Kitchen]

In other news, Kris Humphries has come out as an asshole.

[Morbs]

 

I think this would be a bigger deal if he did this shortly after the Olympics, say in the late 70's or early 80's, because of what a big deal he was back then, and of course because of his status as an Olympic athlete. But he's mostly known now as a kind of hapless, emasculated Father's Knows Least (NYT nickname) of an almost universally loathed money-hungry, famewhoring reality TV family. To say he comes with baggage is putting it mildly. If he changes some people's minds, more power to him, but I don't think it will be groundbreaking.

 

They briefly mentioned that longtime vet, Kristin Beck, who is transgender, her doc is on Netflix.  I think she is a person a lot of people can admire more so than Bruce, who I agree has become sort of a punching bag.

[maraleia]

Hey everyone..this is just a friendly reminder that while everyone has an opinion about this interview please remember that we will not tolerate any transphobic language, sniping at other posters or political talk that has nothing to do with what Bruce revealed in the interview. This means that back and forth conversations about the GOP and Dems and what they do or don't do in relation to the LGBT community or any other social issues is off limits because it can only end badly for one or more posters here.

 

Just a reminder that we like poster to refer to this link when discussion the trans community. http://www.glaad.org/reference/transgender.

While the GLAAD site doesn't have this noted it's actually gender confirmation surgery not sex reassignment surgery.

 

I've also deleted a number of posts that either fell under our DBAD policy or were unnecessary responses that fell under our just like the post that you agree with and move on policy.

 

BTW great discussion going on in here.

 

Thanks! Carry on...

[Darknight]

I believe Kanye said that too because, 1, it was ME ME ME, and 2, he referred to Kim and North practically as pretty possessions.

I believe they were in love. 23 years and two kids (plus 4) is a long time. If Kris was in it only for the money, she could've ended it long before now. I don't know if she ever needed him for income but she definitely didn't once her show became a hit.

I had to give him credit for zinging Diane when she suggested he couldn't even wear pretty clothes due to his age.

I still think Kris was in it for the money more than love. Bruce was more well known and had more money than her. Then she helped him make more money. That woman is business smart. But she did treat him like shit on the show.

I think this is unfair.

He's famous and may not have to worry about things like adequate medical care and money issues surrounding gender transition, but he's constantly mocked. Look at all the comedians making jokes that were shown last night. He's doing this in the public eye. While the world is watching. And maybe that's where he's got a different perspective on things when he states things like changing the world.

Bruce Jenner is a big deal. Whether some people like it or not. He's athlete royalty. He's still considered one of the greatest Olympians to ever live. Regardless of what's happened on some stupid Reality TV show he's a part of, the Olympian thing in itself puts him squarely in every household in America.

And regardless of what some people may think of him personally, he opened up a dialogue now. One that people were still sweeping under the rug even with the transgender movement happening. A man everyone considered to be the pinnacle of masculinity always thought he was a woman. He at least deserves credit for that.

Who leaked the appointment? Kris and her camp?

TMZ first reported it so it obviously came from Kris. She probably did it to shame him into not going forward with the transition. While everything about this family is fake, it seems Kris is truly humiliated that Bruce is becoming a woman... in public, since that ish was okay in private.

I truly feel bad for him. The jokes online and what the comedians and paps made are horrible. I can't believe they put a tracker on his car. Isn't that illegal? And I suspect the k clan are going to state their opinion on the show for ratings. Which is why Kris is staying quiet.

People have been transitioning and having SRS for decades now, without fanfare and without exploiting their situation for profit or publicity. Bruce Jenner is no pioneer. In fact, he's no representative or champion of any kind for transgender people.

Jenner's experience is worlds apart from the other 700,000 transgender people estimated to be living in the United States. He leads a life of luxury and privilege. He is so famous that no one in the lofty strata of society he occupies would dare mock, abuse or discriminate against him for fear of a public relations backlash. Not so for the average transgender person who has to seriously think about their personal safety before just walking down the street or trying to use a public bathroom.

Bruce Jenner will never worry about getting proper medical care, or trying to scrape the money together to make his face and body look right. He'll never have to work as a prostitute or some other part of the sex trade to get that money, or some minimum wage job far below his qualifications just to put a roof over his head. He'll never have to fear being beaten when he goes out. Really, compared to the average transgender person, Bruce Jenner has virtually no worries at all.

Rejection was never a risk for Jenner. There was no chance he would face disapproval after that interview. In America, if you have money and you can command a spotlight, you'll always be welcome. Even if you kill a woman with your car. And Jenner has been priming that spotlight for quite awhile now.

Transgender people have been struggling for a very long time and have made progress in recent years. The people responsible for those advances are the ones who are changing the world, not Bruce Jenner. They have names America will never know. In part because America doesn't care about ordinary transgender people and will still ridicule anyone who looks like a man in a dress who doesn't happen to be rich or famous. But also because Bruce Jenner put his ego and bank account ahead of their hard-fought accomplishments and appointed himself the new symbol of transgender America.

Go on twitter, facebook, youtube and read what people wrote. Look at the k clan distance themselves from him because it might be bad publicity, look at the media making jokes about him and following his every move. I don't know about the accident but how is it relevant to Bruce becoming a woman?

You're right. Diane did say, "And Kourtney?" And Bruce, responded, "Her only concern is her kids. You know, especially Mason. He's five. But kids, I've noticed, kids are very adaptable."

I interpreted this that Kourtney has some concern about telling Mason or exposing him to what's going on and Bruce disagrees because he thinks kids are adaptable so Kourtney doesn't have to worry.

But Scott is a douche bag and Kourtney has issues herself. I understand the kids might be confused and have questions but what's how does or how will Kourtney explain her relationship with Scott and his stupidity plus drinking.

And I'm sorry when I saw the old family pic of Khloe it was very obvious that she may have a different father than Kourtney and Kim.

Edited April 26, 2015 by Darknight

[WickedTuna]

I started watching this but after a half hour or so, I switched channels.  It wasn't his message that turned me off, it was his personality. I don't care about his gender or sexuality; he just doesn't come across to me as a likeable person.

I've only watched a little of Keeping up with the Kardashians (I would be channel surfing and see something that made me go WTF so I'd watch a little) so all I knew about him was he seemed really whipped but I dIdn't like his personality either from what I saw of the interview.

Has he had a stroke? I noticed his left eye kept drooping shut and it didn't seem like a tic.

I feel like something of a bad person because the ones I feel the saddest for are his family members. It doesn't seem like he was the greatest father to begin with and now this. No matter how much you love someone it can't be easy dealing with them changing genders. And yes I know it's been hard on Jenner but that's just my feelings about it.