Behind The Scenes: The Drama Behind the Drama

[pennben]

You pieced this together mostly as I have, @HazelEyes4325.  

I do wonder, however, if one of the leads who dipped wasn't the actress that plays Amelia?

And the poster also said something about a colleague on "[various projects]".  I think that could be referencing someone behind the scenes or Amelia actress (Greys and Private Practice)? I honestly feel like Drew would be competing more with the Amelia actress (I'm too lazy to google) rather than with Pompeo for time/prominence. 

So a combination of some sort behind scenes and actors led to this.  Who knows.  

And, I'm just gonna quote you here.....

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First of all, I'm a little wary of anonymous posts...but this one does seem to match up.  So, I'm cautious and not 100% on board with it..

[HazelEyes4325]

4 minutes ago, LaughingOne said:

Who knows if this is true, but we do know that Sarah Drew pitched the Osteogenesis Imperfecta story and if she also pitched April’s crisis of faith, somebody needs to make that girl a showrunner. Those were April’s two best, most emotional storylines by far. She seems to know what her character needs more than the writers do. I could see that making some people mad.

I know that she spent last summer directing and producing (or directing or producing) and starring in a movie that featured a few other Grey's actors.  She's definitely more than "just an actress."

6 minutes ago, pennben said:

I do wonder, however, if one of the leads who dipped wasn't the actress that plays Amelia?

 

Hmmm, that could be possible.  I mean, they did the most ballsy (and I don't know if I mean that in a positive or negative light) personality transplant with her with that brain tumor.  However, they haven't seemed to be able to do anything else with her since then, so that is why I'm thinking it's not her.  It definitely sounds like the character in question is already trying to me more deeply integrated.

[pennben]

I think the person was trying to reference two characters: 1) a top-billed who dipped (Amelia) with jealousy and 2) one TPTB (whoever they be!) wanted to be more integrated with core (awkward phrasing!) to boost their position (clearly Maggie).

The rest is office gossip. It could be a creative decision to want Maggie over April with Jackson and the easiest way is if April isn't there.  It also could be politics and egos.  It also could be about bottom-line since Drew was up and would want a substantial raise. Likely some combo thereof that varying parties are going to see differently as to the primary driver.  I got that mishmash from the initial "informant", if you will.  Not a bad fakeout post, if that is what it is!

So, again, who knows!

Edited March 21, 2018 by pennben

[moonorchid]

33 minutes ago, LaughingOne said:

Who knows if this is true, but we do know that Sarah Drew pitched the Osteogenesis Imperfecta story and if she also pitched April’s crisis of faith, somebody needs to make that girl a showrunner. Those were April’s two best, most emotional storylines by far. She seems to know what her character needs more than the writers do. I could see that making some people mad.

Or these writers and showrunner need to stop being so damn lazy and write for her! 

[Layne]

2 hours ago, kariyaki said:

Yeah, it happens, especially on long-running shows like Grey's. The shows don't often go with what an actor might pitch but they may go with it if they think it's a good idea. April's storyline about losing Samuel was pitched by Sarah Drew.

And Stephanie's sickle cell anemia backstory was pitched by Jerrika, based off of her cousin's experience. 

[Layne]

1 hour ago, LaughingOne said:

and if she also pitched April’s crisis of faith

Sarah said after Personal Jesus in either her TVLine interview or in her #AskSarah Twitter session that she pitched the crisis of faith storyline to Krista, including bringing Matthew back to set it off. I can try to find it if you're interested.  

[LaughingOne]

10 minutes ago, Layne said:

Sarah said after Personal Jesus in either her TVLine interview or in her #AskSarah Twitter session that she pitched the crisis of faith storyline to Krista, including bringing Matthew back to set it off. I can try to find it if you're interested.  

Oh cool - I thought people were just speculating based on that vague post. So Sarah can come up with great storylines for her character even when the writers can’t, is one-half of the last of the big-time couples, is one of the shows’s best actresses and, from all the social media stuff, seems like a total sweetheart of a person who is well-loved by her co-workers. Man, I can totally see why they got rid of her.

Edited March 21, 2018 by LaughingOne

[Layne]

2 hours ago, funnygirl said:

Maggie's the easy target, but she's only more disliked now for the Jaggie angle than she was for being the Mary Sue before.  

 

The post says the meetings were in late 2016 and early 2017, which would be after 13x09 aired. Maggie was portrayed as really childish during those first 9 episodes, making mountains out of molehills, butting in on stuff that wasn't her business, the junior high crush on Riggs/weird love triangle thing, couldn't accept negative feedback about her shortcomings as a teacher, acting entitled to Meredith's time and attention, etc. and that childishness was intended to be endearing but turned off a lot of viewers. The post doesn't say when the focus groups were held but if they used the findings to inform decisions then the second round was prob conducted in late 2016, after Maggie had started to grate, which would produce negative reactions. The first round was prob conducted over the summer, after season 12, when Maggie was just there in the background, which would produce audience indifference. Maggie makes a lot of sense here. 

Jo ended season 12 with the reveal that she was already married and was on the run from an abusive ex, so focus group round 1 should not have found audience indifference. She had the big cliffhanger and people were interested in finally getting answers about her back story. By 13x09, the Alex/DeLuca situation was dragging but we learned that Jo Wilson wasn't Jo's real name and people were still tuning in to find out how that storyline would be resolved, and people were shipping her with DeLuca, so the second round of focus groups should have shown mixed audience reactions. Some viewers were sympathetic and intrigued, other viewers were fed up with her hole-filled back story, others speculated that she was a lying sociopath. Integrating her with the cast wouldn't have fixed any of the negative issues, getting rid of her would have been easy, and I can't think of any quota they'd need her to fill other than being an "international" actor but they already had Kevin, Caterina and Giacomo covering that area. I don't think she fits the clues but Maggie def does. 

Edited March 21, 2018 by Layne

[Layne]

2 hours ago, pennben said:

You pieced this together mostly as I have, @HazelEyes4325.  

I do wonder, however, if one of the leads who dipped wasn't the actress that plays Amelia?

And the poster also said something about a colleague on "[various projects]".  I think that could be referencing someone behind the scenes or Amelia actress (Greys and Private Practice)? I honestly feel like Drew would be competing more with the Amelia actress (I'm too lazy to google) rather than with Pompeo for time/prominence. 

So a combination of some sort behind scenes and actors led to this.  Who knows.  

And, I'm just gonna quote you here.....

The actress who plays Amelia was pregnant and on maternity leave, AND the baby she was pregnant with and gave birth to during the season has downs syndrome. That's a LOT of personal drama for her to deal with and her limited screen time and weird storyline execution reflected that. I dunno how much energy she'd have left for professional jealousy. 

1 hour ago, LaughingOne said:

Oh cool - I thought people were just speculating based on that vague post. So Sarah can come up with great storylines for her character even when the writers can’t, is one-half of the last of the big-time couples, is one of the shows’s best actresses and, from all the social media stuff, seems like a total sweetheart of a person who is well-loved by her co-workers. Man, I can totally see why they got rid of her.

Anddd she directed all six B-Team Web Series episodes. She is a force!

[funnygirl]

34 minutes ago, Layne said:

The post says the meetings were in late 2016 and early 2017, which would be after 13x09 aired. 

And there's the rub about this supposed inside information. There is photographic evidence of Jesse and current showrunner Krista Vernoff having lunch together and meeting post-season 13 about season 14. This happened in May 2017. In a pre-season 14 interview, Giacomo (Andrew Deluca) also mentioned the actors meeting with Krista and the writers after season 13 wrapped; Krista herself even said that she met with actors prior to summer break to discuss future storylines.  Maybe the focus group happened during season 13, in which case yikes because what a horrible season that was, but since it was Krista's creative decision to end April and Arizona's stories at the end of this season, that didn't even begin to materialize until she started back in late April of 2017. 

[pennben]

1 hour ago, Layne said:

The actress who plays Amelia was pregnant and on maternity leave, AND the baby she was pregnant with and gave birth to during the season has downs syndrome. That's a LOT of personal drama for her to deal with and her limited screen time and weird storyline execution reflected that. I dunno how much energy she'd have left for professional jealousy. 

Well, hell, I had no idea about that and all of my good thoughts to her family. It does remind me that we don't know about anything, we just suspect (and we get sucked in by one-time posters professing knowledge of all, but deciding to leave riddles, so shame on me for jumping on that--they are playing games, with agendas, just like us (whatever said agendas might be). 

I always find these "controversies" about absolutely everything that happens behind the scenes of Grey's fodder for fun, but there are real people there...not just the actors (like Scorsone,, Drew, Capshaw) but also TPTB on this show (like Rhimes, Vernoff, Allen) on the other side. Good reminder. 

This still doesn't change my speculation above, just reminds me to think about how I'm putting it in print and make sure I'm not attacking either side with my thoughts because I don't really know anything.

Edited March 21, 2018 by pennben

[Layne]

41 minutes ago, funnygirl said:

And there's the rub about this supposed inside information. There is photographic evidence of Jesse and current showrunner Krista Vernoff having lunch together and meeting post-season 13 about season 14. This happened in May 2017. In a pre-season 14 interview, Giacomo (Andrew Deluca) also mentioned the actors meeting with Krista and the writers after season 13 wrapped; Krista herself even said that she met with actors prior to summer break to discuss future storylines.  Maybe the focus group happened during season 13, in which case yikes because what a horrible season that was, but since it was Krista's creative decision to end April and Arizona's stories at the end of this season, that didn't even begin to materialize until she started back in late April of 2017. 

Maybe findings from the focus groups were the reason they brought back Krista in the first place? Or maybe they were already in talks with her (starting 4-5 months before making the announcement would make sense in other parts of the business world) and used the focus groups to support their decision?

[Layne]

47 minutes ago, pennben said:

Well, hell, I had no idea about that and all of my good thoughts to her family. It does remind me that we don't know about anything, we just suspect (and we get sucked in by one-time posters professing knowledge of all, but deciding to leave riddles, so shame on me for jumping on that--they are playing games, with agendas, just like us (whatever said agendas might be). 

I always find these "controversies" about absolutely everything that happens behind the scenes of Grey's fodder for fun, but there are real people there...not just the actors (like Scorsone,, Drew, Capshaw) but also TPTB on this show (like Rhimes, Vernoff, Allen) on the other side. Good reminder. 

This still doesn't change my speculation above, just reminds me to think about how I'm putting it in print and make sure I'm not attacking either side with my thoughts because I don't really know anything.

 

Very true. I felt like an ass when I heard about Caterina's situation bc I was a little hard on her character last season, not realizing the character's fear was playing out as a reality for the woman who portrays her. That's something that might have actually brought her and Sarah closer together – bc of the trauma Sarah went through with her own pregnancy during the Samuel storyline. 

Otherwise I think Amelia would be a fair guess. I don't remember which episode it was when she ran away from Owen but I think she was mostly low-key in 13A and was the "good sister" to Maggie when Meredith was being shady, so viewer feedback could've been "indifference" in late 2016 focus groups. 

It's strange that they didn't give her a real redemption arc though if changing viewer sentiment was a big priority for the actress. The way it played out, she was the villain in Owen's story and the tumor didn't really change that. 

Editing to add that it's weird that April and Amelia almost never share scenes. It's been 3 and a half seasons and they've never really interacted. I wonder why. If it weren't for the happy IG posts of Sarah and Caterina I might suspect tension between the actresses but they both seem really chill. It's a shame we won't get to see them become friends.  

Edited March 21, 2018 by Layne

[Deanie87]

9 hours ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

As for all the jealousy--it's been pretty well documented that Ellen can be (is) very jealous of her fellow cast mates.  Both April and Arizona have large and dedicated fan bases and people relate to those two characters in a way they may not relate to others.  All this not only plays into the idea that they are trying to make the show Meredith-centric (which they haven't been able to do in 13.5 seasons, so why start now?) but also the idea that Ellen, like Meredith, sees herself as the sun and doesn't want any bright stars orbiting her.  That is, of course, all speculation on my part.

While I love to speculate on the backstage drama, I am very, very skeptical of these "insider" posts, especially when they seem to match fan theory so closely, like this one seems to.  But this is where they lose me a little.  I just don't get the feeling that Sarah Drew would be someone that would threaten Ellen or cause her much jealousy.  I know that Japril is a popular couple, but is April on her own all that popular?  Her recent arc is very interesting, but she really took a hit when she left Jackson and all of their back and forth, and that was after much of ill-advised Jesus stuff and after she left Matthew at the altar (which I don't think went over all that well if you weren't a Japril fan).  Besides that, Ellen had been one half of a huge couple and was clearly fine about it ending, and then made it plain that she wanted Meredith to be on her own for awhile without a man.  So I guess if she really felt like she had to "compete" with Japril then she would push for a new love interest, or god help us all try to get Merlex going.  I just don't think that whatever popularity April had, it was near enough to threaten to eclipse what Ellen had, and the amount of storyline and screentime didn't either.  I could see that being an issue with Cristina or Callie (and maybe even Maggie as far as screentime) but not April.

I think in the end it comes down to money, and then the creative aspect can be revolved around that.  They were looking to cut costs and iJessica and Sarah were likely on the second tier of salaries after the originals and also didn't have much connection to Meredith, so they hit two birds with one stone and now they can go into the final (hopefully/probably) season with a truly Meredith-centered cast and saving money to boot and don't have as many big stories to wrap up.  I still think the way that it seems to have gone down is pretty crappy and the producers deserve the (sane) criticism that they are getting, but I am not sure how deep the conspiracy goes.

ETA - Given the various ridiculous storylines and character missteps this show has made over the years, I can't believe that they actually hold focus groups, much less listen to what they say, especially this late in the game.  Other than Gizzie and Hahn, I am having trouble remembering any storyline that was changed to appease fans.

Edited March 21, 2018 by Deanie87

[HazelEyes4325]

If this story is true (yes, a big if), the one thing theory that I still can't buy into is Caterina Scorsone as the jealous cast member.  It just doesn't make sense to me--April and Amelia barely have any interaction so I'm not sure what competition there would be.  And then there is this...now, I know everyone is a saint on Social Media, but they seem to be friends based on what is posted on IG.  When Drew's and Capshaw's departures were announced, Scorsone posted really sweet tributes to both of them.  Given the fact that only one cast member refused to even acknowledge her co-stars makes me think it is that direction instead.

[moonorchid]

13 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

If this story is true (yes, a big if), the one thing theory that I still can't buy into is Caterina Scorsone as the jealous cast member.  It just doesn't make sense to me--April and Amelia barely have any interaction so I'm not sure what competition there would be.  And then there is this...now, I know everyone is a saint on Social Media, but they seem to be friends based on what is posted on IG.  When Drew's and Capshaw's departures were announced, Scorsone posted really sweet tributes to both of them.  Given the fact that only one cast member refused to even acknowledge her co-stars makes me think it is that direction instead.

I never considered scorsone to be the cast member. And if there was jealously I don’t think it was consuming but if Sarah drew was pitching her own stories and they were a hit, and she was one half of one of the last hugely popular pairings...I could see that ruffling some insecure feathers.

[Scatterbrained]

Fun, fun, fun!  I’ll play!  :)

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A decade ago, things were a heck of a whole lot different, and the ego of a fellow colleague on [various projects] had not yet exploded the way they have now. The charm has now run out, and as a result we're seeing more shameless behavior.   

Seems to refer to Krista Vernoff, but could also refer to Debbie Allen who initially had a bit part to play and no real BTS power.  Since then, her power and role has increased.  Could also refer to Ellen.  Those are my guesses, in that order.

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Do not let the forced and phony attempts at PR to salvage unnecessary actions fool you, don't fall into the same trap these actors did.  In late 2016, carrying into 2017, meetings were held with the cast, sometimes in groups and sometimes one-on-one, these meetings served as a way for actors to provide positive feedback, or constructive criticism of their current storylines and to pitch future ones.  One actor in particular was very adamant about what they wanted and stood in solidarity with a co-star—who previously pitched a very successful storyline, which had a few people on and behind screen seeing green and feeling undermined.  The actor received an affirmative response but there no intention on going in the direction they were promised.

Krista had mentioned meeting with all the cast and asking them where they want their characters to go.  We got She-Luca as a result of this when Giacomo Gianniotti mentioned he speaks fluent Italian in one such meeting.  I also remember Krista claiming that a gossip site thought she was an unnamed blonde date at a lunch meeting with Jesse.  She was a big social media loudmouth and made a big deal out of it claiming that they were WRONG and it was a work meeting.  I thought it was much ado about nothing, but maybe her intention (along with getting more press for herself and the show) was to show Jesse that she was “on his side”.

If the riddler is using the phrase “on and behind the screen” to mean literally people who work both in front of and behind the camera, then that would be Debbie, Ellen, Chandra, and Kevin (that I can think of).  Somehow, I can believe it to be the former two and not the latter two.  My first guess is Debbie.  

I believe Jesse really wanted Japril to happen again.  I know that Sarah has always wanted April to apologize to Jackson for leaving him and for April to have a slightly different vision of what religion and faith in God means.  I can see the Matthew re-enters the scene and April confronts the wrongs of her past  (thus apologizing to Jackson) and has a crisis of faith (altering her religious views) as a presented storyline where ultimately Japril are re-united.  

I WONDER if Debbie had a vision of her character being the powerful matriarch of a black family dynasty (Empire, anyone?).  Turning Harper Avery from an overbearing but inspiring visionary who loved and cared for his grandson into a mean, nasty old white man who HAD to be killed this season fits that theory.  It might also explain why Catherine no longer has time to mentor or encourage April.   While Jesse and Ellen get to direct real episodes with much fanfare (Jesse gets Chris Rock to drop on by!).  Sarah’s requests to do something similar gets her “The B team”.  

Ellen of course wants to PROVE that she can CARRY the show.  SIGH!

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What caused the breakdown and the take back on a promise?  Egos and results from focus groups.  One of the top billed actors had seen a slip in likability on screen, but it wasn’t significant enough to worry about, but created even more of a one sided rivalry rooted in jealousy.  

My guesses again are Debbie and Ellen.  Many people hated Debbie’s character’s involvement in the Civil War storyline last season.  Many people also didn’t like that Ellen’s character wasn’t honest about liking Riggs with Maggie; or that her character strung Riggs along.  Could also be Maggie.  Red herring alert: people also didn’t like Arizona’s two-faced affairs (with Minnick, Webber, and April) in the Civil War storyline.  

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Others did well as expected, yet saw a significant drop in airtime to reset things; viewers expressed that they could relate to these core characters, felt sympathy for the characters, felt represented and would change very little about them and their current stories.  As I continue, please keep in mind that successful pitches that positively impact ratings, create significant fanfare, and positive focus group results is great leverage for negotiations.

  Sarah.  How much did April exist after Montana?  How much screen presence did she have in the first half of this season?  Yeah.

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Another soon to be top billed actor already apart of the main cast scored very poorly, initially the reaction had been indifference which was expected due to the lack of development, however the second round of results provided unexpected negative reactions to the character from the audience despite attempts to make the most ideal character that the audience would root for and sympathize with.  Typically, this would result in either a complete revamp of the character, integrating them more with the popular characters or a reduction in airtime.  In order to fill a much-desired [and needed] quota, a reduction in airtime was completely off the table, so a hard push toward integration was made despite overwhelming negative responses.

 

Maggie.  I would be curious to know what “the quota” refers to.  I don’t know who else this could refer to.  Camilla and Caterina both had maternity leaves last year.  Or Giacomo, the show needs more hot, young, single males to fit a demographic.  But Maggie fits the best, IMO.

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So what happens next?  The overall new direction left a few in the shadows, but in order to appease—because of previous success, another storyline pitch was given the green light and again could be used as leverage to garner a lucrative deal not close to one we all know about, but one that would be well deserved and most likely granted despite how stingy our network is.

April - character left in the shadows.  Could also be Arizona and Alex, but probably April.

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This pitch was the perfect scenario for our agenda and vendetta driven crew to follow through with their premade plan.  

Debbie, Ellen.  

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A seed was planted, but wasn’t expected to flourish because of promises previously made and our parties were told not to worry and to just go with the flow. Unbeknownst to our main parties, this was not going to be a comeback story but a way to get over what was considered a roadblock.

Debbie talked about “planting seeds”prefinale of last season.  My guess: Jesse and Sarah were promised a Japril reunion, instead April is going bye-bye.  Hellooo, Gaggie!

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So here’s the thing, you can go around or over a roadblock, but it’s still there, so it’s much better to have it removed.  

April

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A semi collective agreement was made, but in order for it not to look like this was an agenda driven blindside, collateral damage was made. 

Arizona = collateral damage

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Those who opposed fought hard, but the bottom line is to always to preserve the almighty dollar, so it was already a lost cause as others gained. And with that I bid you all adieu.

I am guessing this ends with a bit of riddling double-speak.  I can see Jesse opposing and fighting hard, but needing the money because of his divorce.  I can see Sarah and Jessica opposing, but their loss saves others a bunch of money.  Others gaining could be in reference to Ellen’s salary, but it could also refer to Debbie winning her vision of how things should go storyline-wise, and it could also refer to characters like the Muslim intern and transgender intern gaining roles.  Also Giacomo is really getting his character developed more this year.  They have a big romance planned with him and dance doctor.  Dance doctor talked enthusiastically about it in an interview.  Gag!

[Pallas]

What is the source of this turgid ghost story?  Not necessarily the source of information, but where was it originally published or posted? The person who posted it here joined on Monday and has posted only this. As far as I can see, it's fan fiction in the wrong thread. 

[HazelEyes4325]

2 hours ago, Scatterbrained said:

My guesses again are Debbie and Ellen.  Many people hated Debbie’s character’s involvement in the Civil War storyline last season.  Many people also didn’t like that Ellen’s character wasn’t honest about liking Riggs with Maggie; or that her character strung Riggs along.  Could also be Maggie.  Red herring alert: people also didn’t like Arizona’s two-faced affairs (with Minnick, Webber, and April) in the Civil War storyline.  

 

Except Debbie isn't a top-billed actor.  Isn't she a "guest" whenever she appears in the show?

9 minutes ago, Pallas said:

What is the source of this turgid ghost story?  Not necessarily the source of information, but where was it originally published or posted? The person who posted it here joined on Monday and has posted only this. As far as I can see, it's fan fiction in the wrong thread. 

This is what I was wondering too.  It's fun to discuss, but I'm not ready to go out and say that I believe it.  I guess I can say I believe the possibility of it.

[Bort]

8 minutes ago, HazelEyes4325 said:

Except Debbie isn't a top-billed actor.  Isn't she a "guest" whenever she appears in the show?

Debbie is an executive producer of Greys and a prolific director of the show as well. 

[Pallas]

The narrative posted may or may not be a con. But the method is that of a con. Enough verifiable references ("planted a seed;" the Samuel story pitched by Drew; the pitch meeting Vernoff called, etc.) to gain credibility. Followed by suggestive, open-ended references for the reader to fill in, to her or his own gratification. All delivered in the arch yet righteous manner of the Scarlet Pimpernel -- and with more than just a hint of Underground Garage.

[beautifulGA]

I like japril but the corresponding fandom is a bit all over the places when they craft stories after stories insinuating that GA TPTB/Ellen were afraid of couple's popularity. Japril pretty much ended with the divorce imho and GA has been doing great. It's the same as Calzona fandom who in season 11 were at same conclusion that Calzona became bigger than Merder and were therefore ill-treated as an couple.

Popularity wise, I do think that Merder, Slexie and Calzona were iconic but Japril, not that much (YouTube views on certain videos doesn't equate power couple status).

Japril has been more like Crowen, they do have a supportive and loud fanbase but logically the pair doesn't suit each other.

Sarah as an actress has always been an powerhouse and so are the actors and actresses on the show. The notion that someone feels threatened and that's why someone is slacked is childish at its best. 

I think this much stronger backlash (bigger than what happened when Patrick, Sandra & Sara left) on Jessica & Sarah's departure has more to do with the characters being unique, underrepresented and irreplaceable then anything else. 

The departure sucks. But if you have been fan of this show since long and an avid viewer of what happened during season 8 finale (Eric Dane's sacking fiasco), you would know clearly that the departures were more from budgetary angle.

Jessica and Sarah were tire 2 actresses and are probably paid the highest after tire 1 (which IMO compromises of the OGs), now fans may think that why not fire the newbies or interns but again firing those won't make much change in the budget. Somewhere I do feel that these budget changes were made to accommodate Ellen's whooping raise which is unjustified to others of course but this is how this business runs.

I wish GA TPTB could actually reevaluate their decision here solely for the fact that Arizona and April bring so much versatility to the table but then again, who would want to go back to a show from which they were fired from.

Coming to Krista, I do feel that Shonda messed up here. Stacy McKee has also been there from the start and she also headlined S11 and would have done a better job has she not been packed off to Station 19. The same goes for other essential writers & TPTB of GA who were transferred to Scandal/HTGAWM/Station 19 viz David Greenspan, Tony and Joan, Zoanne Clack, Stacey and Bill, Tia Lucia, Karin Gleason, Tom Verica et al.

[North]

5 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

I like japril but the corresponding fandom is a bit all over the places when they craft stories after stories insinuating that GA TPTB/Ellen were afraid of couple's popularity. Japril pretty much ended with the divorce imho and GA has been doing great. It's the same as Calzona fandom who in season 11 were at same conclusion that Calzona became bigger than Merder and were therefore ill-treated as an couple.

Popularity wise, I do think that Merder, Slexie and Calzona were iconic but Japril, not that much (YouTube views on certain videos doesn't equate power couple status).

Japril has been more like Crowen, they do have a supportive and loud fanbase but logically the pair doesn't suit each other.

Sarah as an actress has always been an powerhouse and so are the actors and actresses on the show. The notion that someone feels threatened and that's why someone is slacked is childish at its best. 

I think this much stronger backlash (bigger than what happened when Patrick, Sandra & Sara left) on Jessica & Sarah's departure has more to do with the characters being unique, underrepresented and irreplaceable then anything else. 

The departure sucks. But if you have been fan of this show since long and an avid viewer of what happened during season 8 finale (Eric Dane's sacking fiasco), you would know clearly that the departures were more from budgetary angle.

Jessica and Sarah were tire 2 actresses and are probably paid the highest after tire 1 (which IMO compromises of the OGs), now fans may think that why not fire the newbies or interns but again firing those won't make much change in the budget. Somewhere I do feel that these budget changes were made to accommodate Ellen's whooping raise which is unjustified to others of course but this is how this business runs.

I wish GA TPTB could actually reevaluate their decision here solely for the fact that Arizona and April bring so much versatility to the table but then again, who would want to go back to a show from which they were fired from.

Coming to Krista, I do feel that Shonda messed up here. Stacy McKee has also been there from the start and she also headlined S11 and would have done a better job has she not been packed off to Station 19. The same goes for other essential writers & TPTB of GA who were transferred to Scandal/HTGAWM/Station 19 viz David Greenspan, Tony and Joan, Zoanne Clack, Stacey and Bill, Tia Lucia, Karin Gleason, Tom Verica et al.

I think the backlash has more to do with how they were let go.  If it had been Sarah's and Jessica's choice, while fans would have been sad, the anger would not be present.

Stacy McKee was in charge for a season or two and turned the show into a mess.  Krista was being lauded for righting the ship by quite a few fans during the beginning half of the season.

The firings and Jaggie are what have mainly turned the tide against her.

[funnygirl]

6 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

Coming to Krista, I do feel that Shonda messed up here. Stacy McKee has also been there from the start and she also headlined S11 and would have done a better job has she not been packed off to Station 19. The same goes for other essential writers & TPTB of GA who were transferred to Scandal/HTGAWM/Station 19 viz David Greenspan, Tony and Joan, Zoanne Clack, Stacey and Bill, Tia Lucia, Karin Gleason, Tom Verica et al.

Station 19 is Stacy's brainchild and therefore leaving to run her brand new show under the Shondaland banner is a promotion. Tony and Joan left when their contracts were up for a lucrative deal at CBS. David Greenspan is an editor, he has nothing to do with writing/storylines. William Harper, aka Bill, is still at Grey's as is Zoanne Clack. Tom Verica has worked on nearly every Shondaland show and was never beholden to Grey's. And other staff writers like Tia Napolitano tend to move on at some point to work on something different for the purpose of building their own stature; or in the cases of Pete Nowalk, Jenna Bans, Stacy McKee, run their own shows. Not sure why Karin left, but I'd imagine after producing the same show for 10+ years, you'd want to seek other opportunities. 

The moves these people made were for the betterment of their career. Grey's Anatomy isn't the be-all-to-end-all. The problem is that Grey's should have ended seasons ago. Just because it could stay on because of the ratings etc doesn't mean it should. But obviously to ABC and Shondaland, the value of the dollar exceeds quality of storytelling. 

[HazelEyes4325]

1 hour ago, North said:

Stacy McKee was in charge for a season or two and turned the show into a mess.  Krista was being lauded for righting the ship by quite a few fans during the beginning half of the season.

Let us not forget that Stacy McKee was in charge of season 13, which was just a hot mess.  And not a hot mess like what we currently have where creative choices that are highly questionable.  Season 13 was where they took a season, stuck it in a food processor on chop and then dumped it out all out on a dirty plate for the audience to deal with.  Yes, there were maternity leave issues, but this show has always worked around those fairly easily.  There is no excuse for season 13 and that is on Stacy McKee.

Edited March 22, 2018 by HazelEyes4325

[Shellie]

8 hours ago, beautifulGA said:

I think this much stronger backlash (bigger than what happened when Patrick, Sandra & Sara left) on Jessica & Sarah's departure has more to do with the characters being unique, underrepresented and irreplaceable then anything else. 

Is this a stronger backlash compared with Derek getting hit by a truck?  I remember there being a huge outcry, with tens of thousands of complaints on the official FB page in less than a week.  

[Deanie87]

1 hour ago, Shellie said:

Is this a stronger backlash compared with Derek getting hit by a truck?  I remember there being a huge outcry, with tens of thousands of complaints on the official FB page in less than a week.  

I think that they are pretty similar considering that Patrick was the one that wanted to leave (although many still think he was forced to go), but I remember his departure being a much bigger deal in the media, etc.  The differences are the reason for the dismissal and the way it is done (which we have yet to see for April and AZ).  But you get the same calls for a boycott, the same petitions and the same calls for the show to end because of course, the ratings are going to plummet now.  You even get the same conspiracies surrounding Ellen secretly bumping off any and all competition.

[Shellie]

1 hour ago, Deanie87 said:

I think that they are pretty similar considering that Patrick was the one that wanted to leave (although many still think he was forced to go), but I remember his departure being a much bigger deal in the media, etc.  The differences are the reason for the dismissal and the way it is done (which we have yet to see for April and AZ).  But you get the same calls for a boycott, the same petitions and the same calls for the show to end because of course, the ratings are going to plummet now.  You even get the same conspiracies surrounding Ellen secretly bumping off any and all competition.

I thought there was some controversy because Patrick would have been willing to stay in a more limited role, and also because of the way Derek was rather unceremoniously killed off due to a) suddenly getting a cell phone signal, b) a giant truck barreling down the road out of nowhere and c) the debacle at the hospital. 

For a short time, I had considered never watching again after that episode and I took my time viewing the last ones of that season. Much of the time when people quit watching because of a beloved character's departure, however, I think it's partly due to attrition . . . the fans get to feeling worn down because there's been too much of it. 

[Deanie87]

37 minutes ago, Shellie said:

I thought there was some controversy because Patrick would have been willing to stay in a more limited role, and also because of the way Derek was rather unceremoniously killed off due to a) suddenly getting a cell phone signal, b) a giant truck barreling down the road out of nowhere and c) the debacle at the hospital. 

For a short time, I had considered never watching again after that episode and I took my time viewing the last ones of that season. Much of the time when people quit watching because of a beloved character's departure, however, I think it's partly due to attrition . . . the fans get to feeling worn down because there's been too much of it. 

Yeah, Patrick's version was that he was willing to stay under his terms and I guess Shonda's version was that it wasn't good enough.  Who knows?  I always say that in situations like these, its usually a combination of both versions.  I guess I"m "lucky" to watch primarily for Alex.  Nobody would ever be jealous of his screentime or media attention and I would never presume that his departure would do anything to the ratings.  I want him to get his happy ending, but he has never been a priority as a character in his own right, so I would be totally fine with him leaving, under any circumstance.  I agree that if the show's ratings drop it is simply because the show has run its course.  I don't think it is the departure of any specific character, but rather, the culmination of so many of them.  But, with streaming services, Grey's seems to get new fans all the time.

Edited March 22, 2018 by Deanie87

[pennben]

Someone in another thread reposted the link to the Dempsey petition (which ultimately got a little over 100K signatures).  It reminded me of the drama and how I so very much wanted a dramatic reading of said petition.  One of my favorite parts:

Quote

It's like you've killed the President of Grey's Anatomy! The Fans are ready to serve you papers and charge you with the Patriot Act! You HAVE TO BRING DEREK BACK! NOW! IMMEDIATELY! 

[moonorchid]

It’s like a game of “and another gosh darn thing”...if charscters like Derek and Cristina were still around this wouldn’t be a big deal. But they aren’t and a lot of dynamic characters are gone and they were replaced with bland counter parts and now two more characters who’ve been there for a decade with loyal fan bases who have brought so much to this show that their fans connected with are being written out and when you look at what’s left...the palate is getting thinner and thinner. So yeah people are mad, it’s not going to get Dempsey mad, but also, people just don’t care for what’s left. Thats something they gotta either figure out or continue putting their heads in the sand.

[Daisy]

Jessica and Sarah got fired? :(

[isthiswhatyouwant]

On 3/21/2018 at 11:24 AM, Scatterbrained said:

The charm has now run out, and as a result we're seeing more shameless behavior.   

This is clearly in reference to Krista. The original author of this post said that it may read like a riddle. So, when you look at the fact that Krista wrote for both Charmed and Shameless, it makes things very clear.

[MrWhyt]

19 hours ago, Daisy said:

Jessica and Sarah got fired? :(

no their contracts expired and weren't renewed.

[moonorchid]

15 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

no their contracts expired and weren't renewed.

After a decade I bet it felt like getting fired, and the way it was handled was not amicable.

[MrWhyt]

2 hours ago, moonorchid said:

After a decade I bet it felt like getting fired, and the way it was handled was not amicable.

i'm not saying it was sunshine and roses but there is an actual difference between getting fired and having your contract expire.

[Lady Calypso]

7 minutes ago, MrWhyt said:

i'm not saying it was sunshine and roses but there is an actual difference between getting fired and having your contract expire.

I would say that Sarah and Jessica were more like laid off, rather than their contracts expiring. Of course, they did have their contracts expire, but I would personally say that Jessica and Sarah were laid off as they didn't have the option to renegotiate their contracts. But they definitely didn't get fired, as they didn't do anything wrong. 

[Tierney]

On 3/24/2018 at 3:16 PM, Lady Calypso said:

I would say that Sarah and Jessica were more like laid off, rather than their contracts expiring. Of course, they did have their contracts expire, but I would personally say that Jessica and Sarah were laid off as they didn't have the option to renegotiate their contracts. But they definitely didn't get fired, as they didn't do anything wrong. 

 I think Jessica was laid off / non-renewed.  But, I wonder about Sarah.  She was hired on Cagney and Lacey like 3 days after the GA exit announcement.  For a new show, aren’t there usually 1st auditions, then maybe 2nd auditions?  Gotta wonder how long Sarah was trying for that role.

[moonorchid]

11 minutes ago, Tierney said:

 I think Jessica was laid off / non-renewed.  But, I wonder about Sarah.  She was hired on Cagney and Lacey like 3 days after the GA exit announcement.  For a new show, aren’t there usually 1st auditions, then maybe 2nd auditions?  Gotta wonder how long Sarah was trying for that role.

The only thing is if there was something shady she would have been called out on it, especially with all the crap shondaland has been taking on since everything went down.

[Lady Calypso]

7 hours ago, Tierney said:

 I think Jessica was laid off / non-renewed.  But, I wonder about Sarah.  She was hired on Cagney and Lacey like 3 days after the GA exit announcement.  For a new show, aren’t there usually 1st auditions, then maybe 2nd auditions?  Gotta wonder how long Sarah was trying for that role.

Not all casting actually goes like that. Sometimes, if an actor is in popular demand, they don't even need to go to auditions; they're basically called and offered the job on the spot. This could be what happened with Sarah Drew, if they were having a hard time finding a named actress for the reboot. Michelle Hurd was the other actress cast for the lead of the reboot, but Hurd's name isn't as popular as Drew's at the moment. Also, they would want to get her name out in the press release as quickly as possible after the big Grey's announcement; they basically did it to capitalize on the drama, so they probably pushed it out in a matter of days (calling her, offering the job, her accepting, them figuring out scheduling, Sarah talking to the Grey's producers and showrunners, and then the C&L announcement getting out). I also assume there are some deeper connections behind the scenes with Sarah Drew and whoever is working on C&L, whether the actual showrunner or other producers. That's probably the push to get Sarah Drew cast over some other actress. 

7 hours ago, moonorchid said:

The only thing is if there was something shady she would have been called out on it, especially with all the crap shondaland has been taking on since everything went down.

Also, this. If Sarah was lying about only finding out about being let go from the show two days prior to the big announcement, and if she had been auditioning for Cagney and Lacey well before that, then I think Shondaland would have been calling her out; they want to protect their brand and themselves, afterall, and Sarah Drew lying about being let go very suddenly wouldn't look good for them (obviously, seeing as all the anger is directed right now at Vernoff and the show). They likely wouldn't also be working around Sarah's schedule for the rest of the filming for the season. Which is why I tend to believe that C&L scooped her up probably hours after Sarah Drew was announced to be let go from the show. Hell, maybe her agent was already calling people before then, right after she would have found out. If so, then Sarah has a damn good agent. 

Again, this is all mere speculation and it'll probably never really come out with the circumstances involving this entire mess. But the evidence does tend to lean a certain way in Drew and Capshaw's favour here. 

[Guest]

7 hours ago, Lady Calypso said:

I also assume there are some deeper connections behind the scenes with Sarah Drew and whoever is working on C&L, whether the actual showrunner or other producers. That's probably the push to get Sarah Drew cast over some other actress. 

Well, duh. Amelia was obviously the one engineering this. She asked her mom to pull a couple strings.

[anna0852]

59 minutes ago, deaja said:

Well, duh. Amelia was obviously the one engineering this. She asked her mom to pull a couple strings.

I see what you did there....

[GSMHvisitor]

2 hours ago, deaja said:

Well, duh. Amelia was obviously the one engineering this. She asked her mom to pull a couple strings.

Obviously that's what happened ;)

[Scatterbrained]

LOL!

[CrazyInAlabama]

I read it on here somewhere, it might be on a the GA media forum. where there are rumors that there was a behind the scenes issue.   That's why JC was put at the separate hospital, until his exit.

I suspect that there wasn't a conflict with other actors, since JC seems to have a good reputation, and others who were difficult (Heigel) ended up getting the boot.   

After Chambers left, they could dump the other hospital, and not have to do a separate plot for him, and Pac-whatever hospital.     My personal guess is it came to a head about the time the final episode for the first half of season finale, and they tried to strong arm Chambers into coming back to the home hospital, and he said no way.      If the show runners didn't want to stomp on Chambers, then they would have had a better explanation than leaving his wife for Izzy, and the formerly unknown kids.      I bet this ending was the threat to get the actor to come back to the main story line, and he said no way.      

   Notice he was primarily in the scenes with Webber, and the other people at Pac-whatever, and not at the home hospital.    If there was a clash, I bet it was with story lines, and between JC and the producers, and show runners.  

So the behind the scenes rumors about Chambers having big issues with the show, except I bet his issues were with the show runners, and writers.    He hasn't had much of a story line for a couple of years, except for the big episode with his mother (Lindsey Wagner), and a few decent scenes through different episodes. 

 

I hope whatever happens, that Chambers and his family are happy.      

Edited March 8, 2020 by CrazyInAlabama

[christie]

3 hours ago, CrazyInAlabama said:

If the show runners didn't want to stomp on Chambers, then they would have had a better explanation than leaving his wife for Izzy, and the formerly unknown kids.     

I haven't seen any of season 16 but I knew that JC had left. THIS is how they write off the character? What an absolutely lousy ending; such a diservice to the character and JC. No way would Alex do this. 

[BaseOps]

If Justin had such a big issue with his storyline or the producers for the last several years, he wouldn't have signed on again. His contract was up at the end of season 15, and he signed for two more seasons. He exited for personal reasons.

[Chas411]

Quote

knew that the show was getting rid of her.

Quote

 

Taken from the episode thread. Were they getting rid of her though? Didn’t Heigl ask for time off for maternity and to do a film which she was granted and then I vaguely recall headlines on the day she was due back on set where she didn’t show up. It was then announced she was gone. I don’t think her actual exit was the intended exit but similar to Chambers she gave the writers little choice. 

Edited March 11, 2020 by Chas411

[Anela]

11 hours ago, Chas411 said:

Taken from the episode thread. Were they getting rid of her though? Didn’t Heigl ask for time off for maternity and to do a film which she was granted and then I vaguely recall headlines on the day she was due back on set where she didn’t show up. It was then announced she was gone. I don’t think her actual exit was the intended exit but similar to Chambers she gave the writers little choice. 

That's what I remember. She pissed off the show runners. 

[Chas411]

But I think she was supposed to come back after Alex dumping her and Meredith begging her to stay. That storyline was to accommodate Heigls family leave. She was due back to film the final five episodes of that season but Heigl wouldn’t return so Izzies shitty exit is moreso as a result of that then it was writers wanting her gone.