Fantastic Four (2015)

[caracas1914]

Eegah, on 06 Aug 2015 - 6:13 PM, said:

    So it's official, the Roger Corman version that no one was ever supposed to even see is still the best FF movie.

 

 

Actually the best FF movie was "The Incredibles" , made by Pixar Studio.

Say what?

Well, OK,  let's say it was "inspired" by the FF.

[CMH1981]

 

Apparently FOX is close to a deal with Marvel to get the rights to do an X-Men TV show, but they haven't quite closed it. I wouldn't be surprised if they are waiting to see how this performs, and then they make a trade-off. Give Marvel FF properties back in order to do some X-Men TV shows, and maybe some other smaller things they do not currently have the rights for.

 

See I think this could totally be how this plays out.  I could totally see a Phase 4 or would it be Phase 5 build up to where it's the MCU vs Galactus, just like the current Phase 1-3 is a lead up to the MCU vs Thanos.  It wouldn't surprise me if this is what Marvel has in store.  

[benteen]

If FF bombs at the box office, what's Fox going to do with it?

 

The reason Disney Marvel has treated FF and X-Men like shit is because they don't have the rights to them and they are a pissing contest with Fox.

[Matt K]

While I  haven't seen the movie (it looked bad to me), I like the idea that Sue is Reed's intellectual equal (although I don't see any reason they couldn't have her black as well). It sets up some nice scenes in theory for them to play off each other instead of Reed just being all "a-ha".  Plus it gives her a better place in the team besides love interest.

 

That said, I'd personally keep Ben being a test pilot.  I'd also love it if for Johnny they had him as a gear head and a good mechanic.  Give him some interactions with Reed while keeping him being an adrenaline junkie and a role with the team. That way Reed isn't the only one doing all the science stuff.  

 

I also feel the FF is best when they're explorers.  Having them explore the Negative Zone or Space would have been fun , kind of a more family friendly Guardians of the Galaxy.  You can still have a Galacticus sequel hook but actually have the movie involve dealing with an alien world. 

[BatmanBeatles]

 

And Ioan Griffud was fine as long as he wasn't dancing.

That was as bad as emo Peter Parker in Spiderman 3.

[JessePinkman]

The reaction to this movie seem way over the top. It's at a 9% on rotten tomatoes. I mean, REALLY? Unless it's two hours of actual human excrement I just refuse to believe it's THAT bad.

Edited August 7, 2015 by JessePinkman

[Demented Daisy]

Agreed.  I've checked out a couple of (other) message boards and the hate directed at the movie by people who admittedly have not even seen it yet is astounding.  

[Kromm]

The reaction to this movie seem way over the top. It's at a 9% on rotten tomatoes. I mean, REALLY? Unless it's two hours of actual human excrement I just refused to believe it's THAT bad.

 

Agreed.  I've checked out a couple of (other) message boards and the hate directed at the movie by people who admittedly have not even seen it yet is astounding.  

That second bit might be true, but the 9% on RT, in contrast, is based on actual reviewers who DID see it. 

[Bruinsfan]

It's the reviews from people who've seen early screenings, like Chris Stuckmann, that are the most damning:

 

Well, that and the trailers themselves, which have been putting me off the movie since the first one came out. I initially intended to sneak into a showing after paying admission for Mr. Holmes, but between the review above and the leaked Dr. Doom footage I decided I'd rather just keep the two hours of my life.

[Athena]

I find it hard to believe that Pixels is higher on RT at 18%. I can't actually believe FF 2015 is worse than what I've heard and read about Pixels in contrast.

 

I almost want to watch Fantastic Four just to see how bad this is. I like Michael B Jordan and Jamie Bell. I'm indifferent to Kate, but Miles does seem to be a dick. I wonder if he'll keep getting work at the rate he seems to be turning off so many people.

[Kromm]

I find it hard to believe that Pixels is higher on RT at 18%. I can't actually believe FF 2015 is worse than what I've heard and read about Pixels in contrast.

 

I almost want to watch Fantastic Four just to see how bad this is. I like Michael B Jordan and Jamie Bell. I'm indifferent to Kate, but Miles does seem to be a dick. I wonder if he'll keep getting work at the rate he seems to be turning off so many people.

Actually I agree. It can't be worse than Pixels. Pixels has the feel of pure liquid stupidity (from the promos and reviews admittedly--I don't know anyone personally who's risked damaging their brains seeing it if they weren't PAID to).

[Trini]

I need to find some reviews that haven't been colored by the behind-the-scenes drama, or by reviewers who weren't already hating it way beforehand.

Edited August 7, 2015 by Trini

[James Moar]

Rotten Tomatoes works by dividing reviews into good and bad, and summing how many of each there were. So it's possible for a movie to get a low score not so much because anyone thinks it's particularly bad, but more because no-one actually likes it. That seems to be part of what's happening here.

[bmoore4026]

Well, I've not seen it (and am not going to) and have only listened to or read reviews from The AV Club and Brad Jones from The Cinema Snob, but I feel obligated to save you all the money and trouble of seeing this film by summing it up through this video:

 

https://youtu.be/ZQ7oqmikZDQ?t=46s

[caracas1914]

This marketing and PR snafus of FF are certainly going into the Hall of Shame marketing missteps with the film release. What with Director Trank dissing his own movie (in a now deleted infamous tweet) to Miles Teller Dickish interviews, it certainly doesn't look as if FOX accomplished much more than not allowing the rights of FF to revert back to Marvel.

Hardly seems worth it.

The only question for me is whether FOX will bite the bullet and after all this, willingly hand the keys to the FF car back to Marvel.

Edited August 7, 2015 by caracas1914

[BatmanBeatles]

I have a feeling I'll be a grandma before they make a good FF movie.

[caracas1914]

I just don't see FOX having the cojones to try to reboot FF a third time. I mean, does anybody really think that there will be a sequel with this miss, what with the Box office projected in real dollars to underperform the first 2 FF movies...

We know Marvel has an Inhumans movie planned, since the FF are the superheroes most associated with them, I would think it would be relatively simple to intergrate an FF/Inhumans movie with no big fuss.

[readster]

 Its bad people. I luckily didn't pay but its bad even though it does start off nice and the actors do what they can but there is no middle and then all of a sudden, the movie has to have an ending. Falls on cliches such as: 1. Military... bad. 2. Friend left behind wants to blow everything up. 3. The characters are in name only, they are not characters with 50 year history or related. Michael and Jaime are fine and Michael is the best about the film but he can't even save it. Also, Sue isn't even the main accident she tries to contain it and gets caught in the explosion of dimensional energy. It is so bad. Don't pay to see it, it really is bad and there were 2 people in the movie who got out as fast as they can when it was over. They were so upset they paid for the movie and asked the manager for their money back. 

[JessePinkman]

Yeesh! I will see this movie (not this weekend now after all this bad press but eventually) and it turns out to be worse than Jurassic World, my current nominee for worse movie of the summer, I will be truly hurt.

 

I just don't see FOX having the cojones to try to reboot FF a third time. I mean, does anybody really think that there will be a sequel with this miss, what with the Box office projected in real dollars to underperform the first 2 FF movies...

We know Marvel has an Inhumans movie planned, since the FF are the superheroes most associated with them, I would think it would be relatively simple to intergrate an FF/Inhumans movie with no big fuss.

 

I would be so down with Marvel retroactively making the FF already part of the larger Marvel universe, like they were a now defunct superhero team from the 60s. I highly doubt that jibes with the world they've created but how cool would a Mad Men style FF movie be? 

 

Speaking of the Inhumans I'm really surprised that Marvel even has the rights to them, they're so closely identified with the FF. 

Edited August 8, 2015 by JessePinkman

[Kromm]

I was just coming here to post to say that I think that if FF is brought back in another reboot (be it from Fox OR Marvel) that they need to stop with the origin story.

 

Next reboot needs the fully intact team (enemies like Doom included) already long in place, and just run with it.

 

It's part of why the Silver Surfer film actually wasn't dreadful (the other part being that that was a really fun concept). They were just able to GET ON WITH IT.

 

Combining that with them already being in the Marvel U. seems a neat idea.  As a team from the past?  I suppose the issue is that everyone in the Marvel U seems to act like Iron Man is the first "flying man" they ever saw (Cap being earlier, but quite grounded). But I guess there may be a way to retconn it.  

 

I think it might just be okay to suggest they formed at some point after Iron Man came along, but somehow were in the background or managed to avoid the main events of the other films.

 

One funny thought I had?  Transplant the story and team to Canada. Toronto or Vancouver or something like that.   Keep the story otherwise the same. This explains easy why they were out of the way of so much MU stuff, and just say that they're moving to NY now (or just that our eyes are finally being shown what they are doing).  This is a doubly good idea (especially if ALL of the Fox properties are folded back into the MU by the time this comes along), because then you can backdoor Alpha Flight and all that stuff too (not traditionally part of the FF stuff, but kind of caught between X-Men and Avengers-land).

[millennium]

feeling vindicated for growing up as a DC fan

[Kromm]

feeling vindicated for growing up as a DC fan

That feeling won't last long with the DC movies that are coming up (and frankly the last few out before now too).

[millennium]

That feeling won't last long with the DC movies that are coming up (and frankly the last few out before now too).

 

I wish somebody would make a decent Swamp Thing movie.

[caracas1914]

Say what you will about the Marvel Studio "product", but they know how to package their movies to the public. An FF movie would be in their DNA and wheelhouse.

Per the HW Reporter, this FF its projected box office gross is 27-28 million, down from an originally projected 40-50 million,

As to DC, its not as if Green Lantern and Green Hornet got those franchises jumpstarted.

Edited August 8, 2015 by caracas1914

[MrsRafaelBarba]

Damn.

[caracas1914]

To actually subject oneself to watch BOTH "Pixels " and "Fantastic Four " to verify they are ( or aren't) as bad as the critics say, isn't that taking masochism to a whole new level..,,

[readster]

You can tell that the movie turned into a mess because the director wanted one thing and the studio wanted another. In fact, all the action scenes that were in the original trailer were cut from the final product and the major fight scene with Dr. Doom is only 10 minutes. You can even tell the reshots because Kata Mara cut her hair after the movie was finished filming. You can see the horrible colored wig in the various scenes and they don't even try to hide it. I got a kick out some people who went to the film going: "It had Michael B. Jordan and Miles Teller and that was enough for me." To be truthful, the cast does their best, they are all good actors and in fact I'm looking forward to Creed which MBJ will be in. However, "hot guys" who can act can't save a movie that is so bad, I hate people who use that excuse for films. Or they say its so bad its good, its so bad its even worse. The film does get you in the first half an hour. The set up is fine and then it all goes to hell. In fact it almost take an hour for them to even get their powers and it is a mix of sci-fi and a bit of horror but then its: "One year later" and the film wants to end with only 20 minutes left. In fact, the film is only an hour and 45 minutes. According to Trank, there is almost 25 minutes missing from his version of the film which would round it out just over 2 hours. I'm happy I didn't pay for the tickets but I told my friends I didn't want to see this because I knew it would be so bad. They go: "Don't believe the critics, the actors are all good." I don't go by what others tell me but when you already know it's going to be bad, everyone and I do mean everyone except for 14 year old girls who care more about hot guys than a good movie. The writing is on the wall, my favorite was when we were leaving and one went: "We have to see a mid credit scene." I told them, this is Fox, they aren't associated with Marvel Films, there won't be one. He wanted to stay and then saw there wasn't one. He goes to me and says: "I guess you were right." I just looked and went: "Duh!" Sometimes people just don't want to hear what is true, they have to see it for themselves and then go: "Guess you were right." 

Edited August 8, 2015 by readster

[millennium]

Say what you will about the Marvel Studio "product", but they know how to package their movies to the public. An FF movie would be in their DNA and wheelhouse.

Per the HW Reporter, this FF its projected box office gross is 27-28 million, down from an originally projected 40-50 million,

As to DC, its not as if Green Lantern and Green Hornet got those franchises jumpstarted.

 

I didn't see either one.   Regarding the latter, three words: Seth Fucking Rogen.

[Bruinsfan]

I will confess, I'm getting far more entertainment out of watching people's disappointed and outraged reactions than I ever could have from actually seeing the movie. My big hope is that it splashes Fox in enough red ink that they just give up and return the franchise to Marvel rather than continue to hemorrhage money over the rights out of spite. Bonus if it also manages to sink Miles Teller and Simon Kinberg's Hollywood careers in the bargain.

Edited August 8, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[MarkHB]

Even though Batman and Green Hornet crossed over back in the Sixties, the latter isn't actually a DC property. Unfortunately, the same can't be said about Reynolds's Green Lantern.

I wonder if Fox's embargo on the old FF films will continue after the way this one worked out.

[CMH1981]

 

I wonder if Fox's embargo on the old FF films will continue after the way this one worked out.

 

What do you mean?

[readster]

What's even better, is that it was just shown on both Fox's twitter feed and the Orange and Onion that Fox is actually now handing out surveys on what to with the FF franchise since it hasn't even breached 12 million and is now on track to being #3 at the box office. Everyone is saying on social media and in person: "Give it back to Marvel." No truer words have been said.

[ApathyMonger]

Until someone retweeted him mentioning it, I had no idea Tim Heidecker was in this movie. I hope it comes up along with Gregg Turkington's role in Ant-Man whenever On Cinema comes back.

 

He also apparently had a cameo in Vacation, so it's not a great summer for him, movie-wise.

Edited August 8, 2015 by ApathyMonger

[ApathyMonger]

What's even better, is that it was just shown on both Fox's twitter feed and the Orange and Onion that Fox is actually now handing out surveys on what to with the FF franchise since it hasn't even breached 12 million and is now on track to being #3 at the box office. Everyone is saying on social media and in person: "Give it back to Marvel." No truer words have been said.

 

My main problem with the "give it to Marvel" stuff is that I think Marvel are busy enough as it is. I'd rather they focus on getting Black Panther/Dr. Strange/Captain Marvel off the ground, rather than splitting their focus further. They already had to push some of them back to make room for another Spider-Man reboot.

[CMH1981]

 

My main problem with the "give it to Marvel" stuff is that I think Marvel are busy enough as it is. I'd rather they focus on getting Black Panther/Dr. Strange/Captain Marvel off the ground, rather than splitting their focus further. They already had to push some of them back to make room for another Spider-Man reboot.

 

Yes, I agree with you they are focusing on other properties but if Marvel were to regain the right back to the FF they wouldn't put any of the upcoming films on the back burner b/c with this train-wreck from FOX this past weekend they would want to wait at least five years or more before they did their quintessential version of the FF in the MCU.  They would want to bleach the bad taste/sight out of moviegoers.  If anything they would probably go the way of skipping the origin story and slowly incorporate each member of the team elsewhere before their own group movie again.  Something like the Human Torch in a minor role in the Spider-Man film since those two share a history.

 

 

What's even better, is that it was just shown on both Fox's twitter feed and the Orange and Onion that Fox is actually now handing out surveys on what to with the FF franchise since it hasn't even breached 12 million and is now on track to being #3 at the box office.

 

If this is actually happening I really hope Marvel/Disney play hard ball and just take the talks about the X-Universe tv series off the table til FOX either hands back the rights for a certain amount (perhaps Disney covers the cost of the film's budget for 100% of the rights) or works to make a proper sharing of the franchise ala Sony/Spider-Man.

[Bruinsfan]

Best thing to do would be fold the FF into the Inhumans movie for 2019, since that's the franchise the latter are associated with. Just assume that after two origin story movies in a decade people will know who they are, and skip the backstory.

[ApathyMonger]

Best thing to do would be fold the FF into the Inhumans movie for 2019, since that's the franchise the latter are associated with. Just assume that after two origin story movies in a decade people will know who they are, and skip the backstory.

 

I don't think you're going to want to assume that people will have seen this movie. :)

[readster]

I find it funny, some movie theaters are doing half price ticket sales including one 20 miles from where I live for people to go see Fantastic Four. They don't want to lose business and are offering tickets as low as $4.25. I feel sorry for the movie theaters but don't subject people to movie even you know is not worth the price of admission because its not like movies don't bomb. 

[CMH1981]

If Marvel gets the rights back and they didn't want to rehash the origin story, they could shoot extra footage during the filming of the movie that covers the back story of each individual member to get them where they are at the start of the film and they could release the five different trailers in front of movies and online.  If each one was 5 to 10 minutes it could work to save from having to recap the origin story at the beginning of the film.  If any of that makes sense.

 

I thought of this idea when they talked about doing an Arrested Development movie years back before the 4th season came about on Netflix.  I thought, who would go see this film other than fans if they knew nothing about the series.  I thought for each main character of series they could cut the best scene that were key for that character from the first 3 season of the tv show and post them online and as trailers to get people talking.  In other words you would have had an individual trailer for Michael, GOB, Lindsay, Buster, and so on and so on.

[MarkHB]

What do you mean?

Fox pulled the earlier films from all the streaming services as this one was getting ready to release.

[MadyGirl1987]

Fox pulled the earlier films from all the streaming services as this one was getting ready to release.

Huh, interesting. Why would they do that? What if people wanted to watch them before the new one. I sometimes do that that with the MCU movies... Maybe once the new one has its home release, which probably won't be too long from know as I can't see the theatrical run being long.

As it was, I thought the movie showed promise at the beginning, but fell apart with the leap forward to a year later and disintegrated at the end with the horrendous reveal of Doom and the battle at the end. One of the most important things an origin story does is to explain and show the powers and their development. We get a short little expository speech that fails to do this. What were the initial reactions to the powers and Reed running away? This is major character stuff. Even the suits I was left with questions... Do they need it to control their powers or does it just help? Would Johnny just keep burning without it? Why not make Ben one so he could maybe shift from human to thing. "Thing-out" as it were.

Doom on the other hand was ridiculous. He and the final battle felt rushed and perfunctory.

Marvel could do right by the FF if they were brought into the MCU. Follow Sony's lead, Fox. You can find other franchises you know what to do with.

[CMH1981]

 

Marvel could do right by the FF if they were brought into the MCU. Follow Sony's lead, Fox. You can find other franchises you know what to do with.

 

Exactly.  Fox has the whole mutant side to work with, hell w/ the Deadpool trailer looking to be really kick-ass they have so much to mine that they don't need the FF anymore.

[AimingforYoko]

The main reason I want them to bring FF to the MCU is 

so the Silver Surfer can be brought into the Infinity War against Thanos.

I consider anything else to be a bonus.

[MadyGirl1987]

The main reason I want them to bring FF to the MCU is

so the Silver Surfer can be brought into the Infinity War against Thanos.

I consider anything else to be a bonus.

That would be cool. They do well with the galactic side of Marvel (Asgard in Thor and Guardians). I could see a great film, maybe even a Guardians crossover, where they battle

Galactus or the Skrulls.

Edited August 9, 2015 by Bazinga1987

[caracas1914]

Galactus ?

That's just a cosmic cloud.

For that alone FOX should have lost rights to the FF forever.

Edited August 9, 2015 by caracas1914

[benteen]

So much word.  I think the lack of Galactus and back in the day the lack of the Sentinels and a true Dark Phoenix story are because of Tom Rothman.

[Kromm]

Marvel could do right by the FF if they were brought into the MCU. Follow Sony's lead, Fox. You can find other franchises you know what to do with.

It's always mystified me SO #&^ing much that Fox doesn't know what to do with FF. It's SO basic. THEY'RE so basic. In a good way, I mean.

 

Ultimate FF is at least part to blame for this (but not all since I think the previous FF cycle of Fox movies had nothing to do with UFF even if the current one did).

 

FF is very simply a family story, with a side of straight up Adventure (and eventually in the comics, a good dose of very straight hard Sci-fi too). ALL very old fashioned stuff. Reinventing it is moronic.  And I'm NOT talking about Johnny's race, or anything like that.

 

The new movie has Sue and Johnny's Dad in it right?  ALREADY a mistake.  The basic story is Sue is half sister, half mother to Johnny (by necessity). This sets the basic tone of their whole relationship. And Reed is the surrogate Dad for everyone.  So making him young. Idiotic from a story and character POV (and it was in UFF too). Ben of course is about pathos, and I get they may have preserved that (at least I've heard so since I haven't seen this mess yet) but he's also about more than that too. Ben is both heavy and lighthearted at the same time. That's why Chiklis actually did a good job of it. If Reed is the surrogate Dad, then Ben is the grumpy but loving Uncle.

 

Then there's the basic story. Does it HAVE to be a space story? No.  But why ever change it? I don't get it. Since going into simple orbit is not only no big deal now, but also doesn't really have magic Gamma Rays to change people, then have them go elsewhere (I seem to recall the first movie attempt did that). Of course as we've said already, the best idea of all is to SKIP the damn origin and just have them in place.  If you do, then you can just focus on the family aspect.

 

It's so damn simple. No convoluted mindbending shit. No reinventing. Just family adventure. Look to the Ant Mans and Guardians of the Galaxys for the tone other than that.  Breezy, fun, angst-light other than Ben's little problem (at least in a first movie--admittedly another frequent aspect of the FF from the comics is that their problems DO grow over time somewhat). 

[JessePinkman]

Marvel needs to get the rights back and ship the FF over to Netflix. I'd be so into a family centered FF show. They could have Franklin and Valeria (okay maybe just Franklin, save Valeria for season 3) and Lockjaw (!) and go on old school adventures, it could be the ultimate in retro-cool. I really would set it in the 60s, we could get cameos from Peggy and Tony's dad. I'd have it be like The Incredibles in tone, I don't care that they'd basically be stealing the whole look and feel (hey Pixar stole first ok), it would work.

 

How do they explain all of the MCU acting like Iron Man was the first real superhero? They'd figure it out, I don't know!

[ApathyMonger]

How do they explain all of the MCU acting like Iron Man was the first real superhero? They'd figure it out, I don't know!

 

Ant-Man already sort of retconned that, even if they were acting in secret. And obviously Captain America was around in the 40s.

[readster]

Ant-Man already sort of retconned that, even if they were acting in secret. And obviously Captain America was around in the 40s.

 

 Agent Carter even has talked about secret experiments and other countries keeping super powered beings a secret. To tell the truth it is like Marvel and DC comics, which have done that with their respective histories. Even with changes and retcons, they did that. The real public hero was Captain America and others were in secret until Iron Man. Putting the FF as a TV series or post Inhumans isn't really that hard and after three disasters (even though I think the first 2 weren't bad except for Galactus cloud). Fox doesn't know how to write a super hero movie outside of X-Men. They of course and deal with racism, politics and robots and alternate timelines. Yet, the president of Fox studios has publically admited that he does not like superheroes but they make money. Wrong approach.