Emma Swan: 1000% done with your infuriating optimism

[YaddaYadda]

I have absolutely lost all hope after yesterday's episode that anything will discussed between Emma and her parents.  That scene of her sort of chewing them out was shoe-horned in there like they just wanted to get it out of the way.  I had high hopes, but yeah, I should have known better and I will die of shock if they actually have some kind of a discussion about anything at all.

[Emma]

A hug fixes everything right?

[FabulousTater]

I had high hopes, but yeah, I should have known better and I will die of shock if they actually have some kind of a discussion about anything at all.

Me too. And I think it's especially egregious when you read that A&E were asked about the whole reveal and follow-up and said this:

 

TVLINE | I ask this only because it was revealed off-camera over a commercial break: Did Emma learn the whole truth about her parents’ secret?

HOROWITZ | Yes. Yes. But more of that is explored right from the get-go in this Sunday’s episode. We’re going to dive head first into what Emma has learned about her parents and how she feels about that, and how that shapes their relationship going forward.

A&E's idea of exploring and diving head first was a 1 minute scene (I timed it. It was exactly a minute long) at the beginning of the episode (and after doing Snowing's secret reveal to Emma completely off screen!) and that was the end of that. Great. Really freakin great. >:-|

 

I can't imagine the writers being able to convincingl explain a permanent radical shift in Emma's feelings for Snowing.  YES they lied and yes she should ber angry that they couldn't stay on the moral pedistal she had them on but come one. This is the person who effectively forgave Regina for attempting to murder her parents a hundred and fifty two times and is dating a guy who was a pirate and initially a foe who helped Cora nearly kill her and the other princesses.  By the time of his death she seems to have forgiven Neil for setting her up to go to prison while pregnant etc etc.

Forgiveness is one thing but regaining that total and unwavering trust Emma had in her parents is another question entirely. Forgiveness and trust aren't the same thing.

 

Plus, trust isn't binary. It's not a state of all or nothing and all those people that Emma has forgiven doesn't mean she completely trusts them. She trusts Regina, but only so far. Just like I trust my family and close friends way more than say work colleagues. There are levels of trust for everyone.

 

While Emma apparently forgave Nealfire, you'll notice that she almost literally ran as fast and far from him as she could in the other direction when it came to his overtures to starting a relationship again. Emma may have forgiven him for stabbing her in the back, but Emma no longer trusted him and you can't have a real relationship without total trust. And trust is everything to Emma. Even JMo herself pointed out that, in her opinion, Emma and Nealfire's relationship was DOA (dead on arrival) because Nealfire had done too much harm to Emma. He'd caused her so much pain and never looked back, that the raw and unavoidable truth was that despite whatever forgiveness she may have given him now (when he finally found his backbone 11 freakin' years later!) the trust necessary for them to have a relationship was never going to come back. It was over.

 

In regards to Hook: Emma fully trusts Hook, despite their past as frenemies, because they were just that when they met -- frenemies. There was no expectation of trust. Emma only trusted Hook as far she could throw him, meaning, not at all. But with time, Hook changed. He stopped his quest for revenge, and started down a road towards redemption and becomng a better man. And now, Emma has immense faith and belief in Hook because he changed and earned her trust and she herself changed by allowing herself to be emotionally vulnerable with someone despite all those personal betrayals that she has suffered.

 

As for her parents, Emma used to trust her parents because in her eyes Snowing had earned that trust and they had not given her a reason to question that faith, so she openly placed all her trust in them (notice I said in Emma's eyes, because IMO Snowing haven't come anywhere near earning all the trust she gave them, but whatever ). Emma trusted them even when her own instincts were telling her that they were lying to her, and that's where they really blew it. Snowing knowingly abused the trust and openness that Emma had with them and manipulated her, and solely for their own selfish reasons. They were lying to her simply to conceal their guilt and past sins.

 

So whether Emma forgives Snowing, I don't think that's in question. She'll probably eventually forgive them. But what is now permanently changed is that Emma's trust in Snowing is absolutely shattered (I mean, if this show actually let's the consequences play out as they should and don't do their usual whitewashing + hug + throwaway line routine where everything is forgotten a few episodes later). Now, every time Emma deals with her parents she will question their sincerity. That blind trust Emma had in them is gone and so is that hunky-dory relationship they had, and so the question is really will they ever get that trusting relationship back. (again, assuming the writers deal with the actual consequencs, which chances are slim because TS;TW.)

Edited April 14, 2015 by FabulousTater

[KAOS Agent]

Emma will undoubtedly forgive her parents. It'll happen offscreen and we'll never hear about it again. That's how this show rolls with its emotional drama in the Charming family. However, I think so many people are missing the point of how badly they screwed up. There's the whole soul transference and babynapping and that's highly upsetting, but what's worse is their utter lack of faith in their daughter, both before she was born and now as an adult. How awful must it be for Emma to think that her parents trust in her is so lacking? The egg thing was terrible, the lying to cover their asses made it even worse, but their belief that Emma would go all evil has to be shattering. 

Edited April 14, 2015 by KAOS Agent

[YaddaYadda]

There's the whole soul transference and babynapping and that's highly upsetting, but what's worse is their utter lack of faith in their daughter, both before she was born and now as an adult.

 

Could not agree more with you.  But how do they trust her ability to save them and be the savior but not trust her judgement at the same time?  Does not compute.  This show is slowly breaking my brain.

[Camera One]

Me too. And I think it's especially egregious when you read that A&E were asked about the whole reveal and follow-up and said this:

 

TVLINE | I ask this only because it was revealed off-camera over a commercial break: Did Emma learn the whole truth about her parents’ secret?

HOROWITZ | Yes. Yes. But more of that is explored right from the get-go in this Sunday’s episode. We’re going to dive head first into what Emma has learned about her parents and how she feels about that, and how that shapes their relationship going forward.

 

A&E's idea of exploring and diving head first was a 1 minute scene (I timed it. It was exactly a minute long) at the beginning of the episode (and after doing Snowing's secret reveal to Emma completely off screen!) and that was the end of that. Great. Really freakin great. >:-|

 

Thanks for posting that little blurb of Adam's.  I read it a few days ago before this episode.  So now we know Adam's definition of "explored" and "diving head first".  

Explored = briefly mentioned

Diving head first = first scene in episode, characters never seen again

[LizaD]

I thought Emma was pissed for 2 reasons. One, she now blames them for why she's the "savior" and she hates that stuff. Two, her old insecurity is kicking up again and this just proves to her that they wouldn't love her if she wasn't the savior and made of lightness.

I don't think she would be all that judgmental with the babynapping thing on its own. But I could be giving the writers too much credit. Onscreen that's what it tells me. When I see A&E's crack infused interviews they always sound like "OMG Snowing are the most evil to ever evil." I want to send them the bumper sticker "Crack kills!"

[Camera One]

One, she now blames them for why she's the "savior" and she hates that stuff. 

 

That confused me in this latest episode.  So what happened with Maleficent's egg was what made Emma the Savior?  I don't remember when that was established, or if we're supposed to figure that out?

[regularlyleaded]

[...] I think so many people are missing the point of how badly [snow and David] screwed up. There's the whole soul transference and babynapping and that's highly upsetting, but what's worse is their utter lack of faith in their daughter, both before she was born and now as an adult. How awful must it be for Emma to think that her parents trust in her is so lacking? The egg thing was terrible, the lying to cover their asses made it even worse, but their belief that Emma would go all evil has to be shattering.

That’s a great point, KAOS Agent, and one that I find upsetting. 

 

TBH, I'm hard-pressed to even entertain the notion that the writers will deal with the true fallout of Snow and David's actions here and genuinely and thoughtfully explore what this all means for Emma and her relationship with Snowing. My utter lack of faith exists for one reason alone: because these writers, time after time, have shown an astounding lack of willingness to deal with the overwhelming amount of issues that they've created in Emma's relationship with her parents. But with that said, right now I can only think of how far reaching the implications are and just how hurtful they are for Emma.

 

Do you guys remember that scene back in season 3’s “Lost Girl” where Pan first meets Emma and tells her that Henry is a special boy and Emma’s response is “Ya, I know he’s special, but what do you want with him?” Emma's response is a very motherly attitude. Of course all moms think their kids are special and for no other reason that that child is theirs and just their being is special. But now, because of Snow and David’s actions and attitudes in the ham-fisted evil fetus debacle, you can all too easily argue that that perception that most parents have of their children is not how Snowing perceive Emma, their own child, and I think that's very sad.

 

I imagine that a very short time after Emma fully embraced and accepted Snow and David as her parents she probably started to feel that she was special to them because she was just Emma and because she was theirs. Which for someone like Emma who spent her entire life as an unwanted and unloved orphan must be something of a balm to the soul. But now? Not so much. The revelation of what Snow and David did to Emma before she was born and what they did to an innocent other for their own selfish reasons has quite possibly decimated that sense Emma had of being special and loved by her parents solely for who she is, their child, and not simply because she’s The Savior.

As it stands right now, it’s been revealed to Emma that she wasn’t enough for them as she was. For her parents, she wasn’t special for simply being. For them it wasn’t enough that she was theirs and that's what made her precious and good, despite having within her a potential for great evil as much as great good like all others born with free will. No, now it’s all too easy to look at this and say that all this time, when Snow and David told Emma she was special to them or told her that they believed in her it wasn’t because she was just Emma their daughter. Their faith in her wasn’t due to their unflinching belief in her strength of character because she overcame so much adversity, survived many emotional traumas and came out of it all a good and heroic person, and therefore, the special person that they see and love. No, it’s because before Emma drew breath in the world Snow and David altered the very nature of her being to suit what they wanted, and that’s what made her special to them. And absent those mutations which they artificially induced in her, Emma as she was, as herself, was quite literally not good enough for her them. So whatever sense of trust and faith that Emma had in her parents, and whatever sense that she could trust them fully without fear, that is now surely gone.

But again, with all that said, I don’t think the writers realize the full extent of what they’ve written here. And, if they do I in no way think that the writers will give such a compelling storyline the attention it deserves, and in all likelihood this issue will be addressed and resolved with nothing more than two or three short scenes somewhere in the remaining episodes of the season. In the end I think the writers will have (perhaps unwittingly) only added more fuel to the argument that to Snowing Emma is special because she’s The Savior and not because she’s their daughter.

Edited April 14, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[LizaD]

That confused me in this latest episode. So what happened with Maleficent's egg was what made Emma the Savior? I don't remember when that was established, or if we're supposed to figure that out?

I figured it was because Emma was the "lightest" fetus around was what got her pegged as the savior. And she's only the lightest because she got double the lightness and none of the darkness through this dumb egg story. That was my take on it.

[Camera One]

I guess that made sense.  Though did Rumple separately make her the Savior for the Dark Curse?  They just threw that Savior line into the dialogue with nary an explanation, and we're supposed to make sense of it?  

 

The whole Egg drama is so manufactured that I just want it to end.  I want Snow/Emma to work through the Neverland stuff and the Second Baby stuff, and I don't think this Maleficent-Egg monstrosity adds anything worthwhile.  In facts, it ruins it.  I think Emma is hurt that Snow and Charming didn't have confidence and faith to tell her the full story sooner.  I don't think she should be, or would be, offended that they didn't have faith in her when she was a fetus.  That's just ridiculous.  

[KAOS Agent]

It's so hard to tell what actually happened vs what the characters think happened. It seems to me that Emma believes she's only the light magic wielding Saviour because her parents made her that way with a spell. Emma is totally a person who'd hear that she was potentially Baby Hitler and not listen to the "potentially" part, so now she thinks that everything she is today is because of some voodoo that screwed over another baby. Just imagine what her thought process will be when she realizes that baby is her friend Lily.

 

What's most ridiculous about this story is that they did this spell and then said that the dark potential basically still exists, so are we as an audience supposed to believe that the spell was real or not? Even worse A&E gave an interview in which they state that Emma is carrying around all of Lily's lightness while Lily has all of Emma's darkness. That is not at all what was shown onscreen or even remotely a part of the spell. Emma's darkness was banished. There was nothing about taking all of the light from Lily and depositing it in Emma. When the showrunners can't even articulate what the hell happened, I worry immensely about how bad the storyline is and where it's going to go.

[regularlyleaded]

It's so hard to tell what actually happened vs what the characters think happened.

IA, and this is where having Snow and David tell Emma their secret on-screen would've helped immensely. We would've been privy to how Snow and David framed their actions, the specifics that they did or didn't share with Emma, and we'd know if Snow and David claimed mitigating circumstances or took full responsibility. But we don't know any of it because as usual the writers left it all in Offscreensville. Another writing fail brought to you by the writers of OUAT.

 

It seems to me that Emma believes she's only the light magic wielding Saviour because her parents made her that way with a spell. Emma is totally a person who'd hear that she was potentially Baby Hitler and not listen to the "potentially" part, so now she thinks that everything she is today is because of some voodoo that screwed over another baby.

IA here as well.

 

And for what it's worth, IMO and based on what Emma said to Snowing in that blink and you missed it scene at the beginning of "Heart of Gold", it seems to me that Emma was upset with Snow and David because they messed with her very nature and also because they did it at someone else's expense. Emma's response to Snow and David when they were trying to downplay what they had done was, "I am only The Savior because you altered the entire state of my being at the expense of someone else's soul!" 

 

Of course, YMMV.

ETA:

Also, in the previous episode (after Snow tell Emma their secret) when Emma speaks to August at the convent, she says that part of her motivation for freeing the author was because she had questions for the author about herself and it was no longer simply about writing "happy endings". To me that implied that because of what Snowing did to change her very essence, Emma questions what or who she really is. So IMO Emma's anger with her parents isn't only about the lying. It's certainly an element of her anger, but her anger is also about them altering her very being, as well as the damage they knowingly and willfully did to someone else as a result.

Edited April 14, 2015 by regularlyleaded

[buildmeupbuttercup]

Emma will undoubtedly forgive her parents. It'll happen offscreen and we'll never hear about it again. That's how this show rolls with its emotional drama in the Charming family. However, I think so many people are missing the point of how badly they screwed up. There's the whole soul transference and babynapping and that's highly upsetting, but what's worse is their utter lack of faith in their daughter, both before she was born and now as an adult. How awful must it be for Emma to think that her parents trust in her is so lacking? The egg thing was terrible, the lying to cover their asses made it even worse, but their belief that Emma would go all evil has to be shattering. 

I mentioned in the writers thread last week that what I thought was even worse than not seeing Snowing tell Emma their secret was we didn't get to see how they brought it up to her. Can you imagine Emma "You left me and let me go to prison because Pinocchio told you to?" Swan having to hear that her parents trusted a tree, Mal, and a unicorn more than they trusted her to be a good person? She has grown a ton in the 4 seasons we've known her but that would be devastating to anyone but especially Emma who is hearing yet again that people that she trusted put their faith in strangers and objects over her. So yes while I think the forgiveness will come (probably offscreen) I think this will irreparably damage her trust in them.

 

TBH, I'm hard-pressed to even entertain the notion that the writers will deal with the true fallout of Snow and David's actions here and genuinely and thoughtfully explore what this all means for Emma and her relationship with Snowing. My utter lack of faith exists for one reason alone: because these writers, time after time, have shown an astounding lack of willingness to deal with the overwhelming amount of issues that they've created in Emma's relationship with her parents. But with that said, right now I can only think of how far reaching the implications are and just how hurtful they are for Emma.

But again, with all that said, I don’t think the writers realize the full extent of what they’ve written here. And, if they do I in no way think that the writers will give such a compelling storyline the attention it deserves, and in all likelihood this issue will be addressed and resolved with nothing more than two or three short scenes somewhere in the remaining episodes of the season. In the end I think the writers will have (perhaps unwittingly) only added more fuel to the argument that to Snowing Emma is special because she’s The Savior and not because she’s their daughter.

Sadly the writers think about their shocking "twists" and don't think of the implications for the relationships regarding those twists. They don't pause and think what this will do to the characters or consider how they should react and how this would change a relationship forever. Honestly, with all they have been doing to slaughter the Emma/Snow mother/daughter relationship over the last two years, I wonder if they even understand how much damage their narrative is doing or if they just don't care. I, however, spend far too much time being heartbroken that my favorite TV character continues to get mistreated by the parents who seemed so devastated to lose her in the Pilot...which was probably because they worried about her turning evil without her guidance.

[Rumsy4]

Bringing this from the spoilers thread, where the issue of Graham's death was being discussed.

 

And what worries me is that if they ever decide to address the murder that everyone will forgive Regina for what she has done to this man who has been nothing but kind to the Charming clan.

 

That's my fear too. We saw Emma being devastated to watch Regina burn her mother alive. But once she returned to Storybrooke, Emma was literally begging Regina to be her friend, and feeling guilty about ruining her love life. This amount of grace and forgiveness is seriously staggering. And it's not just past deeds. When Emma found out that Regina had stashed Sidney away in the hospital basement, and had later trapped him in her mirror, she was only upset that Regina had not told her about it. Regina is given a lot of wiggle room when she backslides. Emma gives her the benefit of the doubt, believing that Regina has come so far. It's too late narratively speaking to bring up Graham's murder now, when Emma has seemingly moved past every bad thing Regina ever did to herself or other people. 

[YaddaYadda]

If they had gone down that road where they had basically addressed Graham's murder, Emma would never be where she is with Regina.  Emma from season 1 and even through mid-season 2 is not the same person.

 

All I have to do is look at what happened between Rumple and Hook.  That is my blueprint for what Emma/Regina would look like today.  Rumple said that Hook stole Milah from him, Regina saw what was going down between Graham and Emma as the same, not to mention that the curse was weakening and he was remembering.  Hook loathes Rumple even though they were living on the status quo for a bit before they were back at each others' throats.  Emma and Regina would maintain the status quo for Henry's sake and even then since Henry decided to forget his suspicions of his mother.

 

The show insists on Emma and Regina being friends, so whatever.

 

Here show.  Uncle, uncle, UNCLE!  This is me throwing my hands up in the air.

[Curio]

I started writing out a really long response about the Graham situation, but it veered more into a discussion about the Emma and Regina "friendship," so I'm taking my response over to the Relationships thread instead.

[KingOfHearts]

Just remembered that Emma has indeed killed before - she threw Walsh off the roof to his death. Even if he somehow survived (which I doubt), she still intended on it.

[YaddaYadda]

Emma has never had a problem with crossing that line and tonight, she was protecting her son.  She was trying to save his life.  And next week Lily threatens Snowing and Emma threatens to kill her if she so much harms them.  So clearly, they're going after the people she loves. 

[Mari]

Things Emma's done that are darker than defending her son from Cruella, but somehow didn't turn her "dark:"

• stealing stuff with Nealfire.
• keeping the stolen car she lived in with Nealfire
• dating a married man (strongly hinted at in season 1)
• holding Snow back and conspiring with Regina to take a Lost Boy's heart for leverage
• throwing Walsh off a building
• magicking Hook's hook away from him when she was learning magic.
• double-crossing Hook at the top of that beanstalk

 

• anything else people can think of?

 

Notice that most of that stuff?  Not particularly dark, or necessarily the wrong decision for the circumstances she was in.

 

Swooshing away the person holding a gun on Henry isn't evil.  I don't see how it could open her up to evil--it's not like it was a deliberately malicious act, or an "evil-me-up" spell done as a joke.

 

I'd really like to yell at A&E.  A lot. 

[YaddaYadda]

I'm guessing that they're looking at it as a murder is murder type of  thing.

 

The thing is, while I'm not a mother, I know mothers will go to extreme lengths to protect their children.  I don't know, maybe A&E were locked in the attic or something.

[OnceUponAJen]

Henry clearly didn't see Emma's actions as evil either, since he hugged and thanked her. Emma wasn't given much choice.

Edited April 20, 2015 by OnceUponAJen

[Mari]

The thing is, while I'm not a mother, I know mothers will go to extreme lengths to protect their children.  I don't know, maybe A&E were locked in the attic or something.

Well, that's one explanation.  If so, they're full of  . . . something unpleasant.  Can I still contemplate yelling at them?

 

And, yes.    Cruella was standing at the edge of a cliff and holding a gun on Henry.  If Emma had known Cruella couldn't kill someone, that's one thing--but, Emma didn't.   Plus, Cruella couldn't kill anyone, but there's a pretty big swath of available damage inbetween "Do no harm."  and "Can't kill." 

 

They might have a point if Emma had tracked down Cruella later for torture and dismemberment.  However, defending Henry from what seemed to be an obvious and dangerous threat?  That's not evil.  That's just being a better parent than Cora, who admittedly set  pretty low bar.

Edited April 20, 2015 by Mari

[YaddaYadda]

Okay, but couldn't kill anyone, what does that mean?  What if she decided to throw herself off the cliff and bring Henry along with her?  Wouldn't that have killed him or would he have been stopped from falling along with her?

 

This whole heroes don't kill is filled with bullshit.

[scarynikki12]

I think Henry would have hit some invisible barrier keeping him from going over the cliff.  She was unable to use the gun against Isaac so I assume any attempts would fail along similar lines. 

[Souris]

Jennifer has said time and again that her favorite thing about Emma is her goodness and how she always tries to do the right thing.

 

:(

[Joanh23]

So my take on Emma killing Cruela is that it showed she's taken a step to the dark side but she's definitely not all dark yet. The fact that Emma can't seem to forgive her parents is a much bigger trigger for her going dark IMO. Right now Emma needs answers - she doesn't know if her parents actions really are the only reason why she's the saviour or if due to her own actions/decisions (I think it's the later). The only person who can probably tell her the truth is the Apprentice but Emma doesn't even know about him yet. also how does Lily tie into all this - if Lily joined Rumple she could give Rumple the edge he needs to turn Emma dark....

[YaddaYadda]

I thought Hook made an important distinction last night between what Snow and Henry have been peddling regarding the whole hero thing and even what Cruella was spewing.

 

Snow, Henry, Cruella: Heroes don't kill.

Hook: Even heroes make mistakes.

 

This show has held heroes to very high standards and they're not bloody perfect and that's why he struggles.  And that's why she will be struggling.

 

It's not surprising coming from someone like him who has basically always lived in a grey zone.  He and Emma are cut from the same cloth.  And Emma is the fucking sheriff which means that if this wasn't Storybrooke, she might have had to use her gun to kill someone or hurt someone to prevent them from doing something bad.

 

Emma's claws came out everytime she needed to protect Henry, everytime Henry's life was in danger.

 

• Season 1, Emma threatens Regina that she will kill her if he dies from eating the poisoned apple turnover
• Season 3, she holds a cutlass to Pan's throat, she tells Regina to go ahead and take the Lost Boy's heart, was going to put Pan down behind the town line because he was still a threat to Henry, she burns Zelena with her light magic when she is holding Henry hostage.
• Season 4, she kills Cruella who was holding Henry hostage

 

Have I forgotten anything?  Everytime Henry's life has been in danger, Emma went to that place where she needed to do whatever it took to save her child's life.  

Edited April 20, 2015 by YaddaYadda

[Emma]

Of course Emma is the most evil to ever evil. This f'ing show.

[Dani-Ellie]

I don't think they're saying that.

 

The hero being tempted by the path of darkness is a trope used in pretty much every hero story ever. Every sci-fi/fantasy show I've ever watched has used it to one extent or another. Charmed, Supernatural, The 4400 ... they've all done it. What we have here is a perfect storm for Emma. The hits have been coming and coming, and if you're in a generous mood and feel like tying cohesiveness into the narrative, the hits have been coming and coming since the curse broke.

 

So now she's in a place where the villains are gunning for her with everything they've got, her parents have been lying to her since she found them, her own self-confidence is called into question because how can she be sure that her choices were her own if her parents are telling her they made her good in utero, and this is all on top of everything that's happened since the beginning of the show.  Everyone has a breaking point, and we're finally hitting Emma's. Personally, I've been waiting for an epic Emma meltdown since at least the middle of season two. Where the story goes from here remains to be seen, of course, but as of right now, I don't at all feel like Emma is the evilest ever.

 

(I also will say here that I do not read the post-episode interviews with Adam and Eddy because I can't with them. It's much better for my blood pressure if I don't, so.)

[OnceUponAJen]

I don't think they're saying that.

The hero being tempted by the path of darkness is a trope used in pretty much every hero story ever. Every sci-fi/fantasy show I've ever watched has used it to one extent or another. Charmed, Supernatural, The 4400 ... they've all done it. What we have here is a perfect storm for Emma. The hits have been coming and coming, and if you're in a generous mood and feel like tying cohesiveness into the narrative, the hits have been coming and coming since the curse broke.

So now she's in a place where the villains are gunning for her with everything they've got, her parents have been lying to her since she found them, her own self-confidence is called into question because how can she be sure that her choices were her own if her parents are telling her they made her good in utero, and this is all on top of everything that's happened since the beginning of the show. Everyone has a breaking point, and we're finally hitting Emma's. Personally, I've been waiting for an epic Emma meltdown since at least the middle of season two.

I've been waiting for it too, especially with her realization in late S3 when she told Snowing that the worst thing about being the Savior is that she never gets a break from it. That's a lot of pressure on one person, even though someone else usually ends up saving the day.

She began to appreciate enjoying the small moments at the advice of Charming and Hook. But now her faith in her parents has been dashed. I think they both need to own up that the whole mess was a mistake caused by their own weaknesses and lack of trust in their abilities as parents, and in their daughter. I think that would go a long way towards mending the relationship.

[YaddaYadda]

I know it's something I keep bringing up because I'm annoying that way, but I didn't get the impression that Emma lives at the loft right now.  Snow's line about how Emma is clearly still upset with them, if they had all woken up under the same roof, Snow would've already known how upset Emma is at her.

 

Just me?  Fine!  I'll drop it!

[Dani-Ellie]

Methinks she's staying on a certain ship with a certain pirate. *wink wink nudge nudge* But in all honesty, I can totally see her crashing somewhere else for a couple of days while she waits for her anger to die down.

[Shanna Marie]

Snow's line about how Emma is clearly still upset with them, if they had all woken up under the same roof, Snow would've already known how upset Emma is at her.

I don't get the impression that anyone slept the night before. The present-day part of the previous episode was not long after the end of the episode before that, when the Author ran off. Then apparently the whole gang spent the night searching for the Author, and this was a regrouping the next morning. Perhaps Team Charming and their Pirate Mascot actually got smart in the time we didn't see and split up during the search.

 

So if what you're hinting at is that Emma has moved into the Jolly Roger, I don't think she's had the time. It all seems to have happened on the same day, and now the next morning. Even Hook hasn't had a chance to spend the night on the Jolly Roger since it's been back. As far as I can tell, there was the day he got the ship back and Ursula got her happy ending and told him what was up. Then he went to the loft to tell them about the darkness plot. They got caught in the sleeping spell, then Emma went and freed the Author. They spent the night searching for the Author, and this is the morning after the day in which the Jolly Roger returned.

 

Though it's possible that I'm missing something because I haven't been rewatching most of this season.

[YaddaYadda]

So if what you're hinting at is that Emma has moved into the Jolly Roger

 

I'm honestly not hinting at anything.  I'm just wondering based on dialogue if I'm misreading this.

[Shanna Marie]

I think it really was a case of searching all night, splitting up at some point during the night, and now they've all met up together at the loft the next morning to regroup. So it's the first time Snow and David have seen Emma since they split up during the night (or she stomped off on her own) and they're hoping she's cooled down since then.

[Camera One]

I don't get the impression that anyone slept the night before. 

 

I guess that would explain Emma's tired and run-down appearance.  Though everyone else was looking way too fresh.

[The Cake is a Pie]

I assumed she slept in the Bug, but really, I'd take any place as long as it wasn't crashing at Regina's place.

[FormerMod-a1]

Superficial post ahead.   I will start with admitting I wasn't paying as much attention as I normally do so I may have missed something.  Why was Emma so pasty looking?  Has she not slept for days?  is she sick?  

[YaddaYadda]

She's turning dark, yo!

[OnceUponAJen]

The darkness manifests physically, it appears!

[FormerMod-a1]

Right - going dark is making Emma look pasty and tired.  But Evil Queen, Mal and other "evil"/"villain" women look great.  Well, there is Zelena in all her green glory.  I hope Emma doesn't turn red with anger or something.

[OnceUponAJen]

Right? She should actually be wearing more makeup, and tighter fitting clothes.

[Curio]

The #1 reason why I don't believe Emma is turning dark: no cleavage.

[YaddaYadda]

I hope Emma doesn't turn red with anger or something.

 

You mean a skin rash?

 

It's not because I want to defend them or anything like that, but at the start of 4B, I thought Emma was glowing, radiant, she was so happy and content with her life.  As the season has gone on, it's like she's weighed down by everything that's going on and yes, she looks like someone who hasn't slept, someone who might've been crying.

 

Her goodbye scene with Hook yesterday was like the first genuine moment of contentment she seemed to have and the way she smiled at him, like some of whatever she was feeling was lifted for a few seconds.

 

Poor Emma.

[Mari]

Right - going dark is making Emma look pasty and tired.  But Evil Queen, Mal and other "evil"/"villain" women look great.  Well, there is Zelena in all her green glory.  I hope Emma doesn't turn red with anger or something.

Maybe they"re going for evil and darkness being so foreign to her nature that she's rejecting it, like a transplanted kidney?

[YaddaYadda]

2 years?  Can I ask how this person knows?

 

It's crazy how serene I feel about all of this right now.  When the last 2 hours of last season aired, I was a fucking angst ball and nothing even happened.  And this year, I'm very, I don't know...okay, maybe?  I mean I'm not freaked out that Emma is the new Dark One.  She's not the same person that Rumple is.  She's fucking resilient and she's a fighter and a survivor and if anyone can get through this with minimal damage, it's her.

 

Her scene with Regina in the AU was so unbelievably telling though about how long she's been in love/has loved Hook for.  Aside from seeing it written on her face when he tells her something and there have been a lot of instances this season, it was nice to have this confirmed that it wasn't just in my head.

 

I think the only thing that worries me is her shutting down and shutting away the people she loves because she's scared.

[mjgchick]

You know what I love about Emma? Even though she has magic she'll still fuck you up with her hands and she's learned how to properly sword fight. Why couldn't we have gotten that during all of those filler episodes? Us seeing Charming or Hook teaching her how to use a sword and Snow teaching her how to use with bow and arrow? Or Regina teaching her how to heel? I didn't need that unnecessary angst where all it did was throw Snowing under the bus for some stranger.

Also, man Neal and Emma's parents really did a number on her. Watching that bedroom scene where she chokes in not telling Killian how she feels was so uncomfortable to watch. First it felt like I was intruding. lol Second it was just heart breaking to see because this is a woman who goes after dangerous people as a bail bondsman, has fought dragons, ogres, Evil Queens and even a giant who is fond of her now but she couldn't tell the man that she loves that she loved him until of course she has to sacrifice herself for those she loves. SMH.

[YaddaYadda]

So I gather that bedroom has no doors and that Emma and Henry share?  There was another bed off in the corner which really in the end, whether I'm wrong or right, Emma absolutely needs her own place.  Does Gold still own the real estate in Storybrooke?

 

Anyway...I thought her not being able to say it was on par with her character, but we also know the writers wanted that whole dramatic scene at the end, so there's that.  I think it's the way that Hook's face fell after he realized he wouldn't be hearing those words that made me sort of wanna slap Emma upside the head for being such a chicken.  

[buildmeupbuttercup]

One of the people who saw filming said this on tumblr. So Emma was in that tower for TWO YEARS.

I rewatched the finale and I love that when Emma and Killian literally run into each other for the "first time" he's blown away by her, stares at her like she is the freaking sun, the most beautiful woman he has ever seen AND that's after she's been trapped in a tower for apparently two years and not looking her best. Oh and then there's the part where he dies for her and her son even though he's known her for maybe a couple hours. And that is why as an Emma fan I thank my lucky stars that he is Emma Swan's love. As much as the show frustrated me at times during this arc, this makes me truly happy because his actions and who he is is what Emma deserves. Hell just look what Regina and Belle get stuck with as their True Loves...