S05.E22: Reunion Part 3

[SwordQueen]

Absolutely true, no argument here. I just don't find amusement in it. That's where my posts come from.

 

I guess some of us are just amused by the irony and frankly there's some kind of satisfaction that comes from watching someone who gleefully hurts other people and who compulsively lies get caught in their bullshit.  Is it really fucking sad that Kim has fallen this far?  Absolutely.  I don't wish illness on anyone.  But she is not someone I am "rooting for" either.  I hope she is able to help herself recover but she's the only one who can prevent the "inevitable", no one else can do it for her.  Support is not the same thing as taking control over one's life.  It's damn hard being sick, every day that you are able to wake up and every night that you are able to put your head on the pillow is a success.  But Kim's failings are no one's but her own and if she's going to treat other people so badly then she's not going to have anyone left to support her.

[CTO]

I think BOTH Kim AND Kyle have NPD.  

[Giselle]

I wonder if people are right and that this is about her finally getting the axe from Bravo. 

 

I wonder if Andy will respond.

 

If she goes back to AA/NA I hope she ultimately delivers a much needed round of apologies. I thought it was funny during this season when she talks about how much Brandi has grown this season because she specifically cites Brandi's ability to deliver an apology as evidence and she sounds so amazed by it that it couldn't have been more clear to me that apologies are just not something that Kim feels like she should have to do in general save in a half assed inauthentic way like how she was with Eileen in this episode.

 

If so she put her own head on the chopping block with her actions and vile behavior. The way she treated people made it easy to swing the ax.

[pawsodoom]

My opinion isn't just based on the show. I believe she deals and has dealt with these circumstances before joining the cast. Way before. And by people she trusted, said would be there etc. etc.

 

I can only go by what has been shown on RHOBH since I don't know what her life as an addict was before joining the cast. And I can't or won't speculate what those closest to her may or may not have done to her during that time frame.

 

That being said, I'm not happy or excited by today's happenings. It is a sad situation, but one that I am not at all surprised happened. As others have said, I almost feel like we are watching someone slowly killing herself. I really feel for her kids because I can't even imagine how difficult it is to watch someone you love slowly destroy themselves.

[becauseIsaidso]

Been watching reruns & have come to the conclusion (as I may well have done before, just don't recall if I ever posted as such or not) that Kyle is just as fucked up as Kimmie, just as arrogant, and knows perfectly well how EVERYTHING she does creates a particular impression in the minds of the viewers...but Kyle is just a bit more subtle about it....

 

....true, this is coming from a non-fan...BUT..I had never heard of either Kyle or Kim before the show began, and my first impression of Kyle was the same as it is today, my estimation of kim has gone rapidly downhill...

 

...They are both mean, both have an overblown sense of entitlement, both are exactly what they were raised to be...

 

...I have seen a lot of praise of LisaV (whom I have liked since day one, so, yes, there is a definite possibility of bias on my part) for having Kyle's back & I can easily think of several instances where this has been true....but....I just can't think of a single instance where I have seen Kyle have LisaV's back...which, to me, speaks volumes of Kyle's innate sense of self-importance...she really did luck out with a devoted hubs, lots of money, house full of lovely kids...yet, to me, there always seems to be something about Kyle that says there is something MORE she thinks should have been hers...

 

I would be perfectly happy with a season of BH that was a Brandi & Richards-free zone...then we could concentrate on trivial drama, house and food porn and much good times - hopefully with LOTS of Eileen and LisaR! I started out as a big LisaR fan - and still like her, but am not so sure about her on this show - but have found myself totally on the good ship Eileen - whose characters on the various soaps I was at best ambivalent about. Go figure.

[Rhetorica]

Schadenfreude, (which means a gloating joy in another's misery), thy name is Kim. What a gift to us all.

Seriously, after years of watching her abuse and manipulation especially for people who dare to criticize her in any way - this is sweet. My empathy is for her victims.

I honestly think that Kim has NPD, and all of this public exposure over the years has unraveled her. She is such a good manipulator that she believes her own manipulations. She is so entitled that she kicks a police officer. She is so grandiose that she thinks she is the best of the best, and everyone else is just a hater. She has no empathy and cares only about herself. She tells so many lies and she believes all of them. All these things have been on display to the world now; Kim can't blame anyone else for her public image. (Although she will try...) NPD grows best out of the light of day. Once the camera shoved its way into her life, we could all see her for what she really is.

This isn't over.

You explain Schadenfreude but not NPD? C'mon...some of need spoon fed. What's NPD?

[SwordQueen]

I think BOTH Kim AND Kyle have NPD.  

 

I honestly don't see NPD in Kyle, though I think she's stunted a bit in adolescence.  But from my experience with people who have NPD, Kim could be their spokesperson.   

[Flabbergasted]

Nope, but sometimes somethings don't just occur in a vacuum. Cause and effect in general do have a place in real life. Schizophrenia is a medical condition that environment and upbringing has a hand in. Depression is chemical but you surroundings and events can also affect how well you can battle that disease.  Just sympathizing instead of ridiculing. That's the route I personally like to take that's all. Especially on such a dire subject and these new developments.

 

Unless it's Kyle of course...

[Giselle]

You explain Schadenfreude but not NPD? C'mon...some of need spoon fed. What's NPD?

I'm guessing narcissistic personality disorder. Not sure though.

[Crikey]

"Nobody questions my sobriety!!!! I've been sober for 3 whole minutes!!!!"

Only another 29 days, 23 hours and 57 minutes for the 30 day chip!  ;)

[Reo]

NPD - Narcissic personality disorder.  Everyone is narcissistic to a certain extent, but people with NPD have no awareness of other people as even being human.  It's all about them.  They are the star of their own life, and everyone else is a supporting player.  People with NPD have no empathy, are frequently cruel and emotionally abusive, and feel completely entitled.  A narc will admire you to your face and mock you behind your back.  They often play the victim and blame others for their problems, looking for sympathy and unquestioning support and manipulating to get it.  People with NPD have their own versions of reality and the truth is flexible - whatever makes the narc look best.  Public image is everything.

 

In my opinion, Kyle does not have NPD but was raised as an enabler, a scapegoat.  She's starting to see through the nasty narc games.

[CTO]

Kyle has come a long way - by standing up for herself on the show, she really took on Kim, Kathy, Big Kathy, and the whole sick legacy.

 

THIS is my biggest issue with Kyle. You're exactly right. But here's what else I see and why Kyle disgusts me - Kyle did this show, with Kim in tow, and accomplished everything you wrote with the intention (I believe it was her intention, hidden but real) of coming out smelling like a rose at the EXPENSE of her sister Kim and Kim's addiction. 

 

And look, the majority of viewers see Kyle as a rose. The poor rose, who has weathered so much, and my gosh she is such a saint the poor thing. My biggest issue - Kyle is *exactly* the same as Kim and her family of origin, she just has had a better life outcome. Her actions, her attention seeking style (mean girling other girls etc.), her whining and crying to play the victim for all it's worth and yet, Kyle is no better than her family. Not one bit. In lifestyle appearance and status, Kyle appears better. But it's not hard for people with position, influence and money to appear better than others. It's easy because it's all surface. Integrity, values, how you treat others, etc. that comes from inside and inside Kyle is as barren, ugly at times and messed up as Kim. 

 

That's why for me Kyle wins nothing except my contempt and pity. At least Kim knows half her problems and admits them sometimes at least. Kyle won't claim any of her problems because Kyle needs to be perfect and not only perfect, she needs to be perfect in comparison to Kim. That's job #1 for Kyle. If not for RHOBH I would never have this opinion of Kyle or see it but thanks to all her hard work to that end over these several seasons, Kyle is just as visible to me as Kim is. I have empathy for Kim (not compassion, empathy - there is a difference) but for Kyle all I feel is disgust.

 

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

[GreatKazu]

Sorry to have affected you to such a degree with my post. Kim's hot messiness doesn't negate points, observations, and opinions about Kyle.

 

I really hope Kim finds what she needs in the type of support that will maybe keep the inevitable from happening. Empathy ain't for the weak I'll tell ya that much.

 

Sad.

Nope. Didn't affect me at all. They were just your opinions that I had already read previously on several posts. Didn't need to rehash. I am on to new business which is really old business: Kim is an addict. Only new thing is, she has now been outed again, the only difference is, no one was around for her to put the blame on.

 

Agree. I hope Kim gets help. But first, she has to admit she has a problem. As for empathy, my feelings are with the kids and family because I have been on that side of the fence where an addict doesn't take responsibility for their behavior. I have been there on the receiving end when an addict has been verbally and mentally abusive. I have been exactly where Kim's kids, sisters, and other family members are now. That is where my empathy lies because I have not only worn those shoes, I survived it.

 

 

Nice to see there's some compassion for Kim somewhere.  People like to say addiction is a disease but I guess it's a disease where it's okay to mock, name call and humiliate a person.

Compassion? Is this a snark board or an Al-Anon message board? Kim doesn't want compassion because her claims are she is sober! Remember when Eileen or LisaR dared to show compassion? What did Eileen say in response to Kim's harsh criticism of her for caring? "You know what Kim? Sue me for caring." Seriously, my compassion is for the victims of Kim's "sobriety" and that includes Kingsley. When Kim admits her problem, and when she admits she lied about her three years sobriety, and when she admits she has relapsed, then, and only then, will I have compassion for this person because if she doesn't, god help her, or you, or me, or our loved ones if she is ever out and about drunk driving.

Edited April 16, 2015 by GreatKazu

[nexxie]

NPD - Narcissic personality disorder.  Everyone is narcissistic to a certain extent, but people with NPD have no awareness of other people as even being human.  It's all about them.  They are the star of their own life, and everyone else is a supporting player.  People with NPD have no empathy, are frequently cruel and emotionally abusive, and feel completely entitled.  A narc will admire you to your face and mock you behind your back.  They often play the victim and blame others for their problems, looking for sympathy and unquestioning support and manipulating to get it.  People with NPD have their own versions of reality and the truth is flexible - whatever makes the narc look best.  Public image is everything.

 

In my opinion, Kyle does not have NPD but was raised as an enabler, a scapegoat.  She's starting to see through the nasty narc games.

I see her as her mother's scapegoat child - painful spot to be in but also the one most likely to see what's happening and get free. Have you read Sam Vaknin's stuff?

[racked]

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

 

While I disagree with literally everything here, I also hope Kyle never speaks to Kim again. I hope Kim is left with her BFF Brandi and Superior Sister Kathy and no one else. And I hope to never see her on my tv screen again. 

[BlackMamba]

Waiting on Bravo to show reruns of Kim's substance abuse episodes like

[nexxie]

THIS is my biggest issue with Kyle. You're exactly right. But here's what else I see and why Kyle disgusts me - Kyle did this show, with Kim in tow, and accomplished everything you wrote with the intention (I believe it was her intention, hidden but real) of coming out smelling like a rose at the EXPENSE of her sister Kim and Kim's addiction.

And look, the majority of viewers see Kyle as a rose. The poor rose, who has weathered so much, and my gosh she is such a saint the poor thing. My biggest issue - Kyle is *exactly* the same as Kim and her family of origin, she just has had a better life outcome. Her actions, her attention seeking style (mean girling other girls etc.), her whining and crying to play the victim for all it's worth and yet, Kyle is no better than her family. Not one bit. In lifestyle appearance and status, Kyle appears better. But it's not hard for people with position, influence and money to appear better than others. It's easy because it's all surface. Integrity, values, how you treat others, etc. that comes from inside and inside Kyle is as barren, ugly at times and messed up as Kim.

That's why for me Kyle wins nothing except my contempt and pity. At least Kim knows half her problems and admits them sometimes at least. Kyle won't claim any of her problems because Kyle needs to be perfect and not only perfect, she needs to be perfect in comparison to Kim. That's job #1 for Kyle. If not for RHOBH I would never have this opinion of Kyle or see it but thanks to all her hard work to that end over these several seasons, Kyle is just as visible to me as Kim is. I have empathy for Kim (not compassion, empathy - there is a difference) but for Kyle all I feel is disgust.

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

I don't think Kyle went on the show planning what has happened, and I can't blame Kyle for outing a sister who has terrorized her for decades - she needed the witnesses that the show provided. Edited April 16, 2015 by nexxie

[Sincerely Yours]

I guess some of us are just amused by the irony and frankly there's some kind of satisfaction that comes from watching someone who gleefully hurts other people and who compulsively lies get caught in their bullshit.  Is it really fucking sad that Kim has fallen this far?  Absolutely.  I don't wish illness on anyone.  But she is not someone I am "rooting for" either.  I hope she is able to help herself recover but she's the only one who can prevent the "inevitable", no one else can do it for her.  Support is not the same thing as taking control over one's life.  It's damn hard being sick, every day that you are able to wake up and every night that you are able to put your head on the pillow is a success.  But Kim's failings are no one's but her own and if she's going to treat other people so badly then she's not going to have anyone left to support her.

I don't see her gleefully hurt people. I see her react to people and how they try and "handle" her. I see her making bad decisions but waking up deciding to reek havok on others cause it's fun? Nah, I don't see that. There's offering support and help and then there's offering it up and being disgruntled by it. Hey I'm all about cutting ties if that's what someone needs to do but if one's unable to then I don't think it's helpful to stick around and barely hide the disgust you feel while their going through whatever battles they are going thru. Everyone has choices here. Whether any of them are preferable isn't the point.

[GreatKazu]

Waiting on Bravo to show reruns of Kim's substance abuse episodes like

Girl, I am with you. lol  Gonna go to Costco and buy lots of popcorn.

[Giselle]

I hope my prayers were answered and what put her into this tailspin was being fired from the show.

 

Bravo, When does Brandy get her pink slip?

[SwordQueen]

NPD - Narcissic personality disorder.  Everyone is narcissistic to a certain extent, but people with NPD have no awareness of other people as even being human.  It's all about them.  They are the star of their own life, and everyone else is a supporting player.  People with NPD have no empathy, are frequently cruel and emotionally abusive, and feel completely entitled.  A narc will admire you to your face and mock you behind your back.  They often play the victim and blame others for their problems, looking for sympathy and unquestioning support and manipulating to get it.  People with NPD have their own versions of reality and the truth is flexible - whatever makes the narc look best.  Public image is everything.

 

In my opinion, Kyle does not have NPD but was raised as an enabler, a scapegoat.  She's starting to see through the nasty narc games.

 

Well said, Reo.  

 

From my experience, they will also hold grudges for perceived slights and while they may act nice in front of you, they are seething behind your back and may seek to sabotage you or their anger will escape if they let go of their mask just for a second and you won't know where it came from or why they are angry with you.  So it makes sense to me why Kim, when Kyle doesn't obey her demands, just bursts with this back catalog of gripes and things that Kyle's done wrong, even though Kim may have told her all was forgiven or they are wiping the slate clean or whatever.  They don't forgive or forget, yet they always expect you to.  

 

I hope someone can send Kyle a link to some NPD sites or something so she can inform herself.  It was the best thing I ever did to help myself deal with the toxic people in my life.   Very eye opening and I had myself quite a few "ahh-ha" moments.  

[mbutterfly]

Wow sad. I can't even enjoy this. I feel like I'm watching a suicide.

I know. This is why I so hope Bravo will hear what people are saying. We don't want to see one of their housewives die before our eyes. If they exploit this it will incredibly irresponsible. I haven't watched any of the other Housewives show. Don't they drop people if they see the person is in serious trouble?

[Sincerely Yours]

Unless it's Kyle of course...

I think if Kim is to be held accountable for her choices and bad decisions then Kyle should also have hers pointed out and not smoothed over because she's such a victim. I see Kyle's shenanigans plain as day. I'm not wishing her face get bit off by Kinsley though. There lies the difference.

[GreatKazu]

I hope my prayers were answered and what put her into this tailspin was being fired from the show.

 

Bravo, When does Brandy get her pink slip?

Aww shit. Now, you know it's gonna get ugly in that Bravo office. They will need the S.W.A.T. team to drag that drunken-ass bitch out of whatever watering hole she goes to.

 

 

I'm not wishing her face get bit off by Kinsley though. There lies the difference

Oh please! People post snark here, sarcasm and such. As if people really want to know Kingsley has chewed off anyone's face. Ridiculous.

Edited April 16, 2015 by GreatKazu

[CTO]

frankly there's some kind of satisfaction that comes from watching someone who gleefully hurts other people

 

I'm struggling to recall incidents of Kim hurting others GLEEFULLY, except with Brandi at PamDana's house that first night. She was pretty gleeful there maybe. No actually she was just straight up angry, defensive and mean there, not gleeful.

 

All the years of RHOBH, can someone point out for me the number of episodes of Kim gleefully hurting someone on the show? With intent to hurt I mean, not misunderstanding or mistrusting them - I mean full on intent to hurt someone? Because I can't remember any instances except with Brandi. I can remember Kim being very defensive a lot of times and other times, this last season, asserting herself and her right to boundaries which I was quite frankly proud of her for doing so and so well. 

 

I have seen tons of glee in Kyle hurting others. What have I forgotten about gleeful Kim episodes? Seriously. I see Kim as wounded from season 1 through to today - no glee, lot of pain, lot of not handling things so well, lot of difficulty standing up for herself, but no gleeful hurt to someone else. Help?

I hope Kim gets help. But first, she has to admit she has a problem. As for empathy, my feelings are with the kids and family because I have been on that side of the fence where an addict doesn't take responsibility for their behavior. I have been there on the receiving end when an addict has been verbally and mentally abusive. I have been exactly where Kim's kids, sisters, and other family members are now. That is where my empathy lies because I have not only worn those shoes, I survived it.

 

I have also been there and survived it. And in fact nursed to end of life (non addiction related at all) the two people who did the most harm to me and my life. I loved them. I wish you had that experience of being able to understand and forgive. It helps a lot.

 

Anyhow, empathy. It's rare apparently. I'm glad some here have it and are unafraid to say so. I need that. I need to know it's okay to be myself and feel empathy for someone who was part of this show we all watched. And I need to not see constant snark and derision toward those of us who have empathy and dare to say so. 

 

We're all allowed to be ourselves here I thought. Hard to read this board sometimes.

[shoegal]

I don't see her gleefully hurt people. I see her react to people and how they try and "handle" her. I see her making bad decisions but waking up deciding to reek havok on others cause it's fun? Nah, I don't see that. There's offering support and help and then there's offering it up and being disgruntled by it. Hey I'm all about cutting ties if that's what someone needs to do but if one's unable to then I don't think it's helpful to stick around and barely hide the disgust you feel while their going through whatever battles they are going thru. Everyone has choices here. Whether any of them are preferable isn't the point.

I saw gleeful when she tried to hurt Lisa R with the "talk about the husband"' and then again at the reunion telling Kyle "you want me to tell??". Absolutely, positively downright gleeful that she could hurt them.

[IKnowRight]

Alexia had to leave college and return home due to the injury on her hand:

http://www.inquisitr.com/2013252/kyle-richards-daughters-dog-attack-details-alexia-umansky-missed-a-year-of-college-for-intense-recovery-may-have-to-re-apply/

This made me very angry. Not only was Alexia bitten, traumatized, hospitalized and at jeopardy for losing her hand, but this was her first semester at college!! That's a big deal to miss that much school, and school work to make up...and I bet she didn't return until the next semester. I know she joined a sorority that my older daughter was in, but I don't know if that was in August or when she returned to school. Way to go Aunt Kim, accuse Alexia of causing the dog to bite, blame Alexia, don't support her after the fact and on top of that interfere with her secondary, expensive education! Holy cow, I am actually amazed Kyle would even acknowledge Kim at the reunion.

[TattleTeeny]

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

 

Flip the names in many of these sentences and I wholeheartedly agree. And Kyle can't "let the professionals help Kim." That's Kim's job.

[Sincerely Yours]

THIS is my biggest issue with Kyle. You're exactly right. But here's what else I see and why Kyle disgusts me - Kyle did this show, with Kim in tow, and accomplished everything you wrote with the intention (I believe it was her intention, hidden but real) of coming out smelling like a rose at the EXPENSE of her sister Kim and Kim's addiction. 

 

And look, the majority of viewers see Kyle as a rose. The poor rose, who has weathered so much, and my gosh she is such a saint the poor thing. My biggest issue - Kyle is *exactly* the same as Kim and her family of origin, she just has had a better life outcome. Her actions, her attention seeking style (mean girling other girls etc.), her whining and crying to play the victim for all it's worth and yet, Kyle is no better than her family. Not one bit. In lifestyle appearance and status, Kyle appears better. But it's not hard for people with position, influence and money to appear better than others. It's easy because it's all surface. Integrity, values, how you treat others, etc. that comes from inside and inside Kyle is as barren, ugly at times and messed up as Kim. 

 

That's why for me Kyle wins nothing except my contempt and pity. At least Kim knows half her problems and admits them sometimes at least. Kyle won't claim any of her problems because Kyle needs to be perfect and not only perfect, she needs to be perfect in comparison to Kim. That's job #1 for Kyle. If not for RHOBH I would never have this opinion of Kyle or see it but thanks to all her hard work to that end over these several seasons, Kyle is just as visible to me as Kim is. I have empathy for Kim (not compassion, empathy - there is a difference) but for Kyle all I feel is disgust.

 

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

Music to my ears!!!! This is exactly what I see! Which is why every time Kim says something about Kyle hurting Kim I feel so bad because even on the show it's met with such incredulous reactions and a bit of disgust. "How dare you? Kyle's been there for you..!" I just wanna tell them to shut the fuck up. Hell even if it's not as visible to others as it is to me the way the other housewives are so ridiculously full steam ahead in defense of Kyle like Kyle couldn't have possibly earned any of the discord from Kim just leaves me flabbergasted. I mean geez louise isn't it possible...... Nope, not even a little? Alrighty then, the housewives have spoken... <gag>

[Reo]

I think the saddest, sickest thing about being the victim of a narc is that it is so hard to see it for what it is.  You have a tendency to blame yourself, and think you are the one with a problem.  My experience with NPD is as a scapegoat in recovery.  It took decades to realize what my so-called mother did to me as a defenseless child.

 

And the worst part is that the emotional abuse and manipulation are usually hidden from the public.  The narc believes in their own perfection and projects an image that belies their private behaviors.  Frequently they are attractive and charming, and utterly believable.  This makes it really, really difficult to tell people how you are treated behind closed doors and have them believe you were harmed by it.  

 

I think that we have seen Kim's myth exposed and she simply cannot deal with failure with no one to blame for her behavior.  She can't deflect any more.  All of her old tried and true methods have failed, and the reunion behavior she exhibited is the cherry on the sundae.  This arrest is part of her spiral downward.

[sking24450]

THIS is my biggest issue with Kyle. You're exactly right. But here's what else I see and why Kyle disgusts me - Kyle did this show, with Kim in tow, and accomplished everything you wrote with the intention (I believe it was her intention, hidden but real) of coming out smelling like a rose at the EXPENSE of her sister Kim and Kim's addiction. 

 

And look, the majority of viewers see Kyle as a rose. The poor rose, who has weathered so much, and my gosh she is such a saint the poor thing. My biggest issue - Kyle is *exactly* the same as Kim and her family of origin, she just has had a better life outcome. Her actions, her attention seeking style (mean girling other girls etc.), her whining and crying to play the victim for all it's worth and yet, Kyle is no better than her family. Not one bit. In lifestyle appearance and status, Kyle appears better. But it's not hard for people with position, influence and money to appear better than others. It's easy because it's all surface. Integrity, values, how you treat others, etc. that comes from inside and inside Kyle is as barren, ugly at times and messed up as Kim. 

 

That's why for me Kyle wins nothing except my contempt and pity. At least Kim knows half her problems and admits them sometimes at least. Kyle won't claim any of her problems because Kyle needs to be perfect and not only perfect, she needs to be perfect in comparison to Kim. That's job #1 for Kyle. If not for RHOBH I would never have this opinion of Kyle or see it but thanks to all her hard work to that end over these several seasons, Kyle is just as visible to me as Kim is. I have empathy for Kim (not compassion, empathy - there is a difference) but for Kyle all I feel is disgust.

 

It's disgusting to do to your own sister what Kyle has done to Kim via this tv show. I hope someone helps Kim in the right way, and that it sticks, and that Kyle stays far away from Kim's life because Kyle doesn't help and really doesn't care to genuinely help Kim. She hurts Kim. Enough already. Let the professionals help Kim, that's what she needs finally.

 

 

Kyle has not talked to Kim in damn near 6 months.  Kim being a drunken, mean piece of shit is independent of Kyle.  Kyle did not make Kim.  Kyle is not why Kim is the way she is.  If everything you have said is correct then why isn't Kim doing so much better since she has been free from Kyle for 6 months?  

 

Kim hurts Kim.  Kyle didn't force Kim to do the show.  Kyle doesn't force Kim to do anything.  By all accounts Kim is much closer to Kathy than to Kyle so I don't believe Kyle has the power to force Kim to do anything.  Also, why hasn't the rest of the family stepped in to prevent Kyle from forcing Kim to do this show.  Could it be that Kim is a grown ass person and drunk or not she is still responsible for all her decisions.  She shows her ass on television all by herself, Kyle does not make her do so.

 

I don't understand or agree with the belief that Kim should be able to abdicate her responsibility because she is a drunk.  According to her and others she was sober for a period (doubtful) but there are other people in Kim's life that I'm sure have a bigger influence.

 

I would love to know the problems that Kim has admitted to having?  Is it when she pops a pill and screeches she is still sober and it was a one time slip up?  Is it when her dog attacks her niece and her first move is to go after her niece?  Is it when she screeches about a house being stolen from her when she knowingly took the money that was given to her and spent it but somehow still wants the house back. 

 

And your contention Kyle did this show to have a masterful arc of failure and redemption doesn't ring true to me.  So basically Kyle endured years of scorn for "outing" her very public alcoholic sister as an alcoholic, all so she could grow the fuck up and start disengaging.  Maybe she got an opportunity or maybe they both did, they had a pilot a couple years earlier so maybe it is something they both expressed doing.

 

Anyway, I'm not here for the narrative that Kim is forced to do anything.  For one I don't buy Kyle has that much power in Kim's life, and the narrative negates everything we hear about the family dynamics so why won't those other family members step in and force Kim to do all these things and save her from Kyle?

 

Edited April 16, 2015 by sking24450

[SwordQueen]

I don't see her gleefully hurt people. I see her react to people and how they try and "handle" her. I see her making bad decisions but waking up deciding to reek havok on others cause it's fun? Nah, I don't see that. There's offering support and help and then there's offering it up and being disgruntled by it. Hey I'm all about cutting ties if that's what someone needs to do but if one's unable to then I don't think it's helpful to stick around and barely hide the disgust you feel while their going through whatever battles they are going thru. Everyone has choices here. Whether any of them are preferable isn't the point.

 

I don't know, maybe it takes having dealt with people like Kim to see it.   I see the look in her eyes when she yells at and threatens someone.  They are gleaming with satisfaction.  The look on her face -- same.  The way she deigns to comfort the loser in her battle after she makes them break and the way that others feel the need to comfort her when she's hurt them because she's upset.  She's always more upset than the person she just hurt.   She's outraged at other people's outrage.  Reminds me so much of my own mom and my ex fiance, that like many other people here, scenes with her have been emotionally triggering.  

 

And how is it that Kim is just "reacting" to everyone and everything around her?  Is she not responsible for "acting" on her feelings?  Is she a perpetual victim in life?  Her own actions have hurt those that she claims to love.  Why shouldn't she be held accountable for that?  It doesn't matter if she's ill or not -- unless she hurts people on purpose, you'd think that knowing her actions hurt someone, she'd feel bad and apologize.  However, she doesn't because she gets something from seeing others break.  It's a game to her and when she makes other people back down and/or cry, she's won.  It's really all part of the NPD M.O. so to speak.  

[GreatKazu]

I have also been there and survived it. And in fact nursed to end of life (non addiction related at all) the two people who did the most harm to me and my life. I loved them. I wish you had that experience of being able to understand and forgive. It helps a lot.

 

Anyhow, empathy. It's rare apparently. I'm glad some here have it and are unafraid to say so. I need that. I need to know it's okay to be myself and feel empathy for someone who was part of this show we all watched. And I need to not see constant snark and derision toward those of us who have empathy and dare to say so. 

 

We're all allowed to be ourselves here I thought. Hard to read this board sometimes.

You are assuming I never forgave? Where in my post did I post that comment? Never assume. 

 

It is because of forgiveness, therapy, and Al-Anon (thank god for Al-Anon) that I came out a survivor and came away with a different perspective of addiction. I have sympathy for addicts, but this is also a message board about snarking on tv shows. I am sure I would bore many if I posted only my Al-Anon thoughts and all that I learned in therapy. I have posted many posts over the seasons on my feelings for Kim and how she may have other mental issues at play here besides addiction. There is absolutely nothing wrong with me, or anyone else for that matter, to posting their thoughts and feelings in a snarky or joking way. IMO Kim is an asshole and she likely was one way before she became an addict.

 

Not all addicts are assholes and not all assholes are addicts.

 

By the way, I do volunteer work at a home for addicts. I see real people with real addictions who are struggling day to day to remain clean. Oh and they admit when they relapse. They own it. I sympathize with them.

 

 

his made me very angry. Not only was Alexia bitten, traumatized, hospitalized and at jeopardy for losing her hand, but this was her first semester at college!! That's a big deal to miss that much school, and school work to make up...and I bet she didn't return until the next semester

It was mentioned Alexia may have to reapply or attend another college. I too was angry after reading that article.

Edited April 16, 2015 by GreatKazu

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

 

 

. I have been there on the receiving end when an addict has been verbally and mentally abusive. I have been exactly where Kim's kids, sisters, and other family members are now. That is where my empathy lies because I have not only worn those shoes, I survived it.

 

 

Amen sister, same here. We all take away different lessons from our experiences.

Edited April 16, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[The Mighty Peanut]

I hope Kim does go back to the Cirque Lodge and doesn't, you know, kill herself, which IMO is a real danger right now. Sadly, some people would be gleeful about that...the demon addict getting the lonely and miserable death they deserve at long last. I really can't imagine a more epically humiliating spectacle of falling on her own sword than getting arrested and thrown in the drunk tank and kicking a cop at 50-years-old ONE DAY after Kim Richards' Sobriety Testimony Hour a.k.a the reunion aired. I don't like her but it makes me sad to see anyone self-destruct. Except Hilter, fuck that guy.

Edited April 16, 2015 by The Mighty Peanut

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

Compassion? Is this a snark board or an Al-Anon message board? Kim doesn't want compassion because her claims are she is sober! Remember when Eileen or LisaR dared to show compassion? What did Eileen say in response to Kim's harsh criticism of her for caring? "You know what Kim? Sue me for caring." Seriously, my compassion is for the victims of Kim's "sobriety" and that includes Kingsley. When Kim admits her problem, and when she admits she lied about her three years sobriety, and when she admits she has relapsed, then, and only then, will I have compassion for this person because if she doesn't, god help her, or you, or me, or our loved ones if she is ever out and about drunk driving.

Has she been drunk driving? So far her addiction is damaging because it causes emotional distress for those close to her. In other words they worry. Of course that's a lot but aside from that and being annoying as fuck while drunk/high, where's this menace to society that rates such disregard by some and pure vitrol from others? This is another thing that has me scratching my head. Kingley isn't about her being an addict it's about her being a bad dog owner and making bad decisions so again I'm unclear why compassion is completely out of reach for Kim Richards. She won't own it, admit it? I could care less if she does or doesn't. 

Edited April 16, 2015 by Sincerely Yours

[CTO]

Music to my ears!!!! This is exactly what I see! Which is why every time Kim says something about Kyle hurting Kim I feel so bad because even on the show it's met with such incredulous reactions and a bit of disgust. "How dare you? Kyle's been there for you..!" I just wanna tell them to shut the fuck up. Hell even if it's not as visible to others as it is to me the way the other housewives are so ridiculously full steam ahead in defense of Kyle like Kyle couldn't have possibly earned any of the discord from Kim just leaves me flabbergasted. I mean geez louise isn't it possible...... Nope, not even a little? Alrighty then, the housewives have spoken... <gag>

 

Thanks and I so appreciate your posts as well. It's tough having slightly different view but then getting trashed for it is something else entirely.

 

While watching the Reunion episode 3 I really tried to pay attention. All of the women on this show, every last one of them, is living in a house of cards. That's why they flip out on Brandi and Kim. Those two are loose cannons in behaviours, lifestyle choices, etc. and it is too dangerous for them and threatens the facade of living in BH I guess. I don't see any of them, including Eileen (3 marriages, 2 affairs ...ahem. Human but .. ahem) as being better than the other. They are all the same to me. They are all human. They all have faults. And it left me stunned too to see the hard on they all had to convince us everything is the fault of Kim and Brandi. As if none of them have had any bearing on how Kim and Brandi react to their shenaningans during filming. I mean, it's ridiculous.

 

Actually the worst for this show and who holds most of the blame should be Andy. That guy is into some dark twisted stuff if he can do this to human beings and call it entertainment to make a living for himself off it and laugh about it all along the way.

 

I can only watch RHONY now. Because those ladies are fun and I don't have to worry about them! They can look after themselves and I can just enjoy the show knowing they can handle anything life throws at them. I'm done with RHOBH and think Bravo should end it after all this. It's been a nightmare from season 1 when I think of Taylor and her husband's suicide especially. 

[Sincerely Yours]

I'm struggling to recall incidents of Kim hurting others GLEEFULLY, except with Brandi at PamDana's house that first night. She was pretty gleeful there maybe. No actually she was just straight up angry, defensive and mean there, not gleeful.

 

All the years of RHOBH, can someone point out for me the number of episodes of Kim gleefully hurting someone on the show? With intent to hurt I mean, not misunderstanding or mistrusting them - I mean full on intent to hurt someone? Because I can't remember any instances except with Brandi. I can remember Kim being very defensive a lot of times and other times, this last season, asserting herself and her right to boundaries which I was quite frankly proud of her for doing so and so well. 

 

I have seen tons of glee in Kyle hurting others. What have I forgotten about gleeful Kim episodes? Seriously. I see Kim as wounded from season 1 through to today - no glee, lot of pain, lot of not handling things so well, lot of difficulty standing up for herself, but no gleeful hurt to someone else. Help?

 

I have also been there and survived it. And in fact nursed to end of life (non addiction related at all) the two people who did the most harm to me and my life. I loved them. I wish you had that experience of being able to understand and forgive. It helps a lot.

 

Anyhow, empathy. It's rare apparently. I'm glad some here have it and are unafraid to say so. I need that. I need to know it's okay to be myself and feel empathy for someone who was part of this show we all watched. And I need to not see constant snark and derision toward those of us who have empathy and dare to say so. 

 

We're all allowed to be ourselves here I thought. Hard to read this board sometimes.

Absolutely beautifully said!

 

I too fail to see Kim be gleeful about the pain she's caused others. Defensive, yeah, embarrassed awkward yup but happy that she's created such disharmony. Nope, I'm right there with ya.

[Trooper York]

Seriously. Hitler?

 

He is definitely not as nasty as Kim Richards. Just sayn'

 

(They actually have a lot in common. They both loved dogs)

Edited April 16, 2015 by Trooper York

[Persnickety1]

I think BOTH Kim AND Kyle have NPD.  

 

Eh, I don't necessarily agree.

 

Kyle has shown empathy for others (even sending the disgusting mess known as Brandi a card after Tampongate), amongst other things.

 

I've never seen Kim show empathy for anyone on this show, except for her bullshit grandstanding "talk" with Taylor about her drinking.

 

Kyle also has the ability to form real lasting relationships, something most narcissists are unable to do.

 

We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.

[Linky Loo]

Brandi's blog is posted.  "I'm always here for you, Kim":

 

http://www.bravotv.com/the-real-housewives-of-beverly-hills/season-5/blogs/brandi-glanville/brandi-im-always-here-for-you

[haydensterling]

Radar (for what its worth) cited a "source" saying she had been drinking vodka tonics "all night" and sometime after midnight they refused to serve her anymore.  She became angry and did the ever so cliche "Don't you know who I am".  She ended up leaving the bar, but not the hotel, and went into the bathroom.  

 

That whole shtick about 'you mean you to tell me you don't know who the fuck I am' works my last fucking nerve.  Why does anyone have to care who you are, even if they do know?  People who talk like this are guaranteed assholes, IMO.  It always bums me out when I hear of someone whose work I admire pulling this line on people in the service industry and it always makes my opinion of them drop to the gutter.  

 

It's just so damned...tacky.  If I had to put of with people like this on the daily I'd lose a lot of jobs.  I'd always be telling people "I don't give two fucks who you are, please do take all the fucking seats.  Thanks!"  

This girl I knew back when I was a teenager and working in retail had an amazing approach to dealing with asses like Kim.  When people were dickish to her about anything, her smile would get bigger and bigger and she'd become increasingly polite.  She didn't do the whole thing where you also pass-agg s-l-o-w the fuck down to a turtle's pace--just service-oriented to the tenth power.

 

The brilliant part was that she would always wrap it up with a honeyed "Fuck you very much, please shop with us again soon!" and a big old smile.  

 

The expression on the people's faces was priceless.  They were so confused and obviously puzzled, half smiling, half not.  They were never sure if they'd heard what they thought they heard, because here's this very young, very sweet, very pretty girl and--did she just tell me to fuck off...?  No one ever called her on it.  Not once.  They'd leave the boutique and we'd be crying from laughing so hard, those people were so confused, and it just completely deflated them, if that makes any sense.  

 

Not even gonna lie, I started to do it too.  It always felt great to give those kinds of people a (confusing) taste of their own assy behavior.   

Edited April 16, 2015 by haydensterling

[Sincerely Yours]

I don't know, maybe it takes having dealt with people like Kim to see it.   I see the look in her eyes when she yells at and threatens someone.  They are gleaming with satisfaction.  The look on her face -- same.  The way she deigns to comfort the loser in her battle after she makes them break and the way that others feel the need to comfort her when she's hurt them because she's upset.  She's always more upset than the person she just hurt.   She's outraged at other people's outrage.  Reminds me so much of my own mom and my ex fiance, that like many other people here, scenes with her have been emotionally triggering.  

 

And how is it that Kim is just "reacting" to everyone and everything around her?  Is she not responsible for "acting" on her feelings?  Is she a perpetual victim in life?  Her own actions have hurt those that she claims to love.  Why shouldn't she be held accountable for that?  It doesn't matter if she's ill or not -- unless she hurts people on purpose, you'd think that knowing her actions hurt someone, she'd feel bad and apologize.  However, she doesn't because she gets something from seeing others break.  It's a game to her and when she makes other people back down and/or cry, she's won.  It's really all part of the NPD M.O. so to speak.  

Thing is there is usually two people involved in these supposed gleeful moments of inflicting hurt. Kim's not just starting off a conversation randomly with threats just because It's usually used as a defense to someone else's attack or approach or conversation or whatever but it's not like their talking about cookie recipies when all of a sudden she drops some innuendo about someone else. It doesn't happen that way. There is usually someone else involved. Kim reacts badly, acts badly makes bad decisions etc. but damn it sometimes, actually a lot of times there's someone else there making bad decisions in the interaction as well.  

[Trooper York]

At least when Hitlers dog Blondie bit Goebbels daughters hand he apologized.

[Sincerely Yours]

 

 

While watching the Reunion episode 3 I really tried to pay attention. All of the women on this show, every last one of them, is living in a house of cards. That's why they flip out on Brandi and Kim. Those two are loose cannons in behaviours, lifestyle choices, etc. and it is too dangerous for them and threatens the facade of living in BH I guess. I don't see any of them, including Eileen (3 marriages, 2 affairs ...ahem. Human but .. ahem) as being better than the other. They are all the same to me. They are all human. They all have faults. And it left me stunned too to see the hard on they all had to convince us everything is the fault of Kim and Brandi. As if none of them have had any bearing on how Kim and Brandi react to their shenaningans during filming. I mean, it's ridiculous.

 

 

Spot on!

 

I don't see any of them, including Eileen (3 marriages, 2 affairs ...ahem. Human but .. ahem

 

This had me LOL!

[What Fresh Hell]

I would hope we won't be shaming people for the snark, no matter how we feel about this.

That's precisely why Kim shouldn't be back next season. Everyone would be walking on eggshells around her for fear they'd be seen as some kind of monster. That show should be over.

[Satchels of gold]

So Brandi will bail her out.

I think this means she will put money on her books.

Sorry to have affected you to such a degree with my post. Kim's hot messiness doesn't negate points, observations, and opinions about Kyle.

I really hope Kim finds what she needs in the type of support that will maybe keep the inevitable from happening. Empathy ain't for the weak I'll tell ya that much.

Kim has family support ( even if Kyke washes her hands of her) and access to the best care in the world. The question is will Kim avail herself of these opportunities?

Sad.

And she also has ridicule, humiliation and all those other obstacles in the meantime. A person going thru cancer isn't battling those outside demons as well as their cancer.

A better example might be to tell an alleged anorexic "to calm down and eat some bread". Edited April 16, 2015 by nc socialworker

[shoegal]

Thing is there is usually two people involved in these supposed gleeful moments of inflicting hurt. Kim's not just starting off a conversation randomly with threats just because It's usually used as a defense to someone else's attack or approach or conversation or whatever but it's not like their talking about cookie recipies when all of a sudden she drops some innuendo about someone else. It doesn't happen that way. There is usually someone else involved. Kim reacts badly, acts badly makes bad decisions etc. but damn it sometimes, actually a lot of times there's someone else there making bad decisions in the interaction as well.

The Brandi Glanville defense of 'I give it back to you harder'. I understand that the 'you started it' defense is common, but it's bullshit IMO. I have been deeply hurt and treated like shit in my life (as I'm sure we all have) and I have finally come to realize that treating someone like shit in retaliation just makes me a shitty person. So I stopped doing it. I am responsible for the way I treat people, period, and just because someone does something to you doesn't justify you doing the same or worse to them in return (general you here).

Kim needs to own her shit. So does Brandi for that matter.

Edited April 16, 2015 by shoegal

[mbutterfly]

NPD - Narcissic personality disorder.  Everyone is narcissistic to a certain extent, but people with NPD have no awareness of other people as even being human.  It's all about them.  They are the star of their own life, and everyone else is a supporting player.  People with NPD have no empathy, are frequently cruel and emotionally abusive, and feel completely entitled.  A narc will admire you to your face and mock you behind your back.  They often play the victim and blame others for their problems, looking for sympathy and unquestioning support and manipulating to get it.  People with NPD have their own versions of reality and the truth is flexible - whatever makes the narc look best.  Public image is everything.

 

In my opinion, Kyle does not have NPD but was raised as an enabler, a scapegoat.  She's starting to see through the nasty narc games.

I'd be very surprised if someone with NPD could parent children as successfully as it seems with Kyle. I think she is what you get with an NPD parent + an NPD sibling. 

[SwordQueen]

Thing is there is usually two people involved in these supposed gleeful moments of inflicting hurt. Kim's not just starting off a conversation randomly with threats just because It's usually used as a defense to someone else's attack or approach or conversation or whatever but it's not like their talking about cookie recipies when all of a sudden she drops some innuendo about someone else. It doesn't happen that way. There is usually someone else involved. Kim reacts badly, acts badly makes bad decisions etc. but damn it sometimes, actually a lot of times there's someone else there making bad decisions in the interaction as well.  

 

Yes, and they are expected to own their shit, as well and for the most part, they do.  But I'm talking about Kim now.  Kim needs to own Kim, and she doesn't.  THIS is why she is not recovering.  Not because of other people.  Sure people and situations can trigger responses in us, sometimes that we aren't even aware we're having, but Kim is ultimately the one who decides her fate, by creating it.  Every single day, when you have an illness or an addiction, you have to choose to not die.  Every single hour, pretty much.  That is on Kim and she can't keep putting not only the responsibility for her sobriety/life on other people, but the blame when she chooses to take a drug.  And if she does not trust the people in her life or she doesn't want their support, or if she feels that her environment is toxic to her, then it's Kim's responsibility to change her own environment.  It's not everyone else's to comply to Kim's litany of demands.