S02.E09: The IRS

[Athena]

Nobody likes the IRS. But recent budget and staff cuts have made it increasingly difficult for the department to do its very important job. Don’t take our word for it. Ask Michael Bolton.

[biakbiak]

After last week, maybe a simple mike drop?

[Victor the Crab]

I'll go out on a limb and say Ollie will discuss taxes and who pays what, since Wednesday is the deadline for Americans to file their income tax forms (saying this as I had mine done today).

[enlightenedbum]

I'll go out on a limb and say Ollie will discuss taxes and who pays what, since Wednesday is the deadline for Americans to file their income tax forms (saying this as I had mine done today).

Well played.

[Victor the Crab]

NAILED IT!!!!! (kinda).

 

I wouldn't have expected Ollie to spend his Main Story expressing sympathy for the Internal Revenue Service. Or seeing Michael Bolton re-lyric one of his better known songs for just such an occasion.

[bmoore4026]

My dad was a special agent for the IRS for 20 years.  It paid a bit better than being an FBI agent, which was what he was previously, but he took it primarily because he kept getting passed up for promotion.  No matter how hard he worked or how many hours he put in, he still got passed over for promotion.

 

I never knew a hungry day when dad worked for the FBI and the IRS, so I'm fortunate, I guess, for that.

 

So I hate it when The Tea Party and GOP attack the IRS.  Those fools don't realize that, without taxes, they can't have nice things like killer drones or bombs or shit like that.  Yeah, I'm rather bitter about their hypocrisy.

 

Yet, I feel like I'm a hypocrite, too, because, since I'm on Social Security because my Aspergers or Autism Spectrum or whatever the hell it's called makes it hard for me to interact with people or remember orders and the like, I don't have to pay taxes.

 

And that's another thing that makes me fear the Republicans over - that they'll take my Social Security away from me.

 

I'm also afraid that, if Rand Paul or anyone like him becomes president, they'll arrest current and former IRS agents and their families.  I'm paranoid, I know, but, given the Libertarian Republican rhetoric, perhaps I've earned my anxieties.  And I hate my anxieties because they're the biggest problem in my life.

[Jamoche]

Love that the first "favorite books we've never read" is Al Franzen's "Freedom".

 

ETA: And more proof Michael Bolton has a sense of humor - he played his Office Space namesake in a "Funny or Die" clip.

Edited April 13, 2015 by Jamoche

[Hanahope]

I have a friend that works for the IRS.  He relishes going to work everyday because he loved finding tax cheats, especially people who abused the earned income tax credit.  When you hear that for every $1 spent in tax enforcement the IRS recoups $6, that tells you there are a lot of tax cheats.

 

Anyone else think that perhaps more 'tea party' groups were targeted by the IRS because a lot more of them came into existence and attempted to obtain tax-free status?

[Sharpie66]

That is exactly what I was thinking, Hanahope! I wish that John had thought of it, too.

[ganesh]

It seems like the tea party was partially that there were so many of them popping up at once and then their credo was basically, 'we don't think we should have to pay taxes.' If that doesn't put you in a high risk group for audits, I don't know what does. 

[Victor the Crab]

And, in the end, the IRS didn't deny one tea party group of their tax exempt status while a couple of left leaning groups were denied theirs. But who felt like they were persecuted the most?

[hincandenza]

Love that the first "favorite books we've never read" is Al Franzen's "Freedom".

 

ETA: And more proof Michael Bolton has a sense of humor - he played his Office Space namesake in a "Funny or Die" clip.

 

Imagine how sad I am that one of those books was "Infinite Jest".  :'(

 

I have a friend that works for the IRS.  He relishes going to work everyday because he loved finding tax cheats, especially people who abused the earned income tax credit.  When you hear that for every $1 spent in tax enforcement the IRS recoups $6, that tells you there are a lot of tax cheats.

 

Anyone else think that perhaps more 'tea party' groups were targeted by the IRS because a lot more of them came into existence and attempted to obtain tax-free status?

 

And, in the end, the IRS didn't deny one tea party group of their tax exempt status while a couple of left leaning groups were denied theirs. But who felt like they were persecuted the most?

 

Yeah, the whole story was a... sorry... tempest in a teapot.  Even at worst, they didn't actually deny valid tax exempt status, but it's hard to blame them for targeting a group of people who disproportionately have as a core belief that taxes are wrong/unjust/unconstitutional.  Well, no, and obviously they're at higher risk for cheating, so what did anyone expect?  That's like forming a cult called "The Spiritual Salvation of Bank Robbery" and thinking the police won't keep a closer eye on you when you walk into a bank.

 

The hatred of the IRS is petty and childish, so it's unsurprising that Americans seem to hate the IRS.  The sad part is, the people who are standing in long lines or getting dinged by some ACA tax confusion/29.5 hours a week bullshit will never, ever understand that:

 

• The longer lines/poorer service is because your representatives cut their funding
• Defunding the IRS was never about you: those IRS defundings were so the really rich could cheat more on their taxes. 

 

They're not getting a $6/$1 return by dinging the small folk; that's the money from going after bigger tax cheats, the kind of people where spending a hundred people-hours auditing someone easily turns up enough money to pay their wages six times over.  Of course, with the usual scam that the rich play, they'll use whatever and whichever "scandal" to get the IRS budget cut under some faux-populist umbrella, so that estimated $21 trillion dollars in off-shore tax avoidance will never be caught, mwuhahaha!  Well, until we have another once-a-decade magic tax holiday for the rich, when they can repatriate their money to the US at something like a 5% tax rate, to "stimulate the economy" (read: let them get their money back at an insanely low tax rate while turning around and slashing hundreds of thousands of jobs).

 

 

I swear, watching this show is going to put me in an early grave...

[iMonrey]

It was kind of a week episode I thought but how do you top the Snowden interview? Also, I hate to say it but I doubt many people care much about parliamentary elections in Great Britain. It's also getting to the point where you can't get away from Michael Bolton anymore. I guess he's got a good sense of humor about himself but he's popped up lately on everything from this to Two and a Half Men.

Edited April 13, 2015 by iMonrey

[Irlandesa]

 Also, I hate to say it but I doubt many people care much about parliamentary elections in Great Britain.

And not many people seemed to care about Snowden.  But the great thing about this show is that it covers things people might not realize they should care about.  There were a lot of non-carers about net neutrality who were made to care thanks to Oliver. 

 

I do care about the elections when it makes me laugh. 

[stillshimpy]

The hatred of the IRS is petty and childish, so it's unsurprising that Americans seem to hate the IRS.  The sad part is, the people who are standing in long lines or getting dinged by some ACA tax confusion/29.5 hours a week bullshit will never, ever understand that:

 

I am going to apologize in advance for how upset I'm likely to sound here.  I simply had no earthly idea that anyone was engaging in such abusive behavior towards the people tasked with collecting taxes.  I mean, honestly, it just wasn't ever going to occur to me that people sent in checks covered in crud as a form of ....well, I don't even know what that would be.  It's not even "don't shoot the messenger, dude" it's more akin to ....yeah, I'm stumped.  Beating a dog because you are in a mood basically.  What the hell?  I'm so appalled I'm almost incoherent.  

 

What I personally find is that the people who rail against taxes and the IRS are projecting their anger about poorly managed and inefficient funding systems that don't accomplish what they are intended to do, onto the process of collecting funds for necessary parts of safe, reasonably well educated, healthier society.  Now what anyone I have ever met has against a hungry person being fed, I will never know, nor do I claim to, but mostly it seems like people are expressing their frustrations in the wrong ways and (oh my god, understatement) at the wrong targets.    

 

So that's a big part of why it seems so petty and childish to me.  People who wail that they hate to pay taxes and blame the IRS mostly amuse me. Or they did, until this episode.   I always want to tell them to get back to me when they haven't driven on roads paved by tax dollars, don't expect their children to have access to a public school system or for mail delivery to be a part of their lives.  Not to mention things like violent criminals being jailed.   

 

On the one hand I can appreciate the idea that an entity -- in this case the government -- seems to get so little done with what seem staggering amounts of money when viewed from a distance.  On the other, how in the world that can be perceived without then understanding that all of the societal structures that keep us from descending into near chaos and violence, not to mention actual human suffering, are actually funded by these tax dollars is entirely beyond me.  

 

 I live in a state that is just doing one of the most repulsive and reprehensible things I can imagine: it's trying to dictate what recipients of food stamps and welfare can do with the incredibly meager funds given to them.  It's disgusting to me that this state wants to demean and shame people for needing help to feed themselves or their families, while simultaneously throwing a giant toddler-in-a-sugar-crash tantrum over even the mere concept of raising the minimum wage.  

 

So here's my point and why I loved Jon's piece -- including the incredibly good sport, Bolton (who I've never given one full thought to before last night) -- most of the people screaming about the supposed need to abolish the IRS desperately need a dose of empathy, just in general.  Anything that at least makes them think about the human being on the receiving end of fury and vitriol they have done nothing personally to deserve (other than going to work every day of their lives and thereby earning the wage that will keep them from programs these same people claim are not necessary) is a good thing.  

 

I only wish there was a way to "It's a Wonderful Life"  the whole lot of them on the issue, to show them the world they think they so desperately crave and what it looks like when the vast majority of a population is scrambling for mere existence while others bask in the glow of their hoarded gold (hint: Ask the Romanovs....oh wait....) .   In lieu of that, I will gladly embrace a piece that at least encourages people to think about the human being receiving a mustard covered check (seriously, seek help, mustard banker, you're unwell).  Did I mention how incredibly appalled I am by that? 

 

I loved all of the piece and we pay taxes out the damned wazoo, by the way.  I'm glad to do it, because it is the price to pay for living in an actual civilization vs. the stark misery that results from starvation, ignorance and complete loss of personal safety that results otherwise.  

 

Having said all that, at length, and clearly with a lot of heartfelt spirit, may I just add one thing?  I do actually care about the parliamentary elections.  I so envy Canada and the UK the ability to issue a vote of "no confidence" and make a change when things go spectacularly to shit, that I do care.   However, that piece was a damned snooze and a half.  

 

The guy is "a bit weird"?  Uh....yeah, we all are.   No matter who you are, someone has once thought you were sort of weird.  It's pretty much truth universally acknowledged.  Separate entities often seem odd when viewed from the outside.  But a public furor over how someone looks while eating a bacon sandwich mostly confuses the hell out of me.  He looked like he was chewing.  You ever pause your DVR or a movie for a moment and catch otherwise stunningly attractive people in the middle of speaking and they look like they are actually deformed when frozen in that moment?  Helen of damned troy would likely "look weird" chewing.  

 

Whereas I appreciated the absurdity of it all, I really didn't think it warranted more than a startled glance in the direction of the entire thing.  Shades of Jon Stewart's obsession with how people eat pizza.  I deeply and complete don't care.  

 

Other than I think food stamp recipients ought to be able to purchase a pizza (or a cake for a birthday, or a gallon of ice cream or whatever else suits their fancy, because one of the few pleasures afforded to most is the ability to actually eat something pleasant from time-to-time).  

Edited April 14, 2015 by stillshimpy

[attica]

A couple of years ago, I was executrixing (ok, so not a word) my mother's estate. After seeing Rep Steve Cohen on one of the weekend MSNBC shows recommending people call the IRS with tax questions, I did so. I had a couple of issues I didn't know what to do with, and the lady on the phone walked me through both of them thoroughly, thoughtfully, and kindly. The same thing would have cost me $800 with a lawyer, and instead cost me  less than a half hour on the phone. I'm a fan.

 

I wish they'd upgrade their online-filing options, though. I'd rather file directly with them than through some private company (like I can do on the state level). Maybe next year.

 

One last thought: it occurred to me that British singer Sam Smith is taking the Michael Bolton place in pop music. They sound just alike.

[Hanahope]

One last thought: it occurred to me that British singer Sam Smith is taking the Michael Bolton place in pop music. They sound just alike.

 

I guess that explains why I don't care for Sam Smith and don't "get" it.  I never cared for Bolton's genre either.

 

 

I only wish there was a way to "It's a Wonderful Life"  the whole lot of them on the issue, to show them the world they think they so desperately crave and what it looks like when the vast majority of a population is scrambling for mere existence while others bask in the glow of their hoarded gold (hint: Ask the Romanovs....oh wait....)

 

Those that ignore history are doomed to repeat it.  Ask the same Romanovs what happened to Marie Antoinette & co.

[enlightenedbum]

 

The guy is "a bit weird"?  Uh....yeah, we all are.   No matter who you are, someone has once thought you were sort of weird.  It's pretty much truth universally acknowledged.  Separate entities often seem odd when viewed from the outside.  But a public furor over how someone looks while eating a bacon sandwich mostly confuses the hell out of me.  He looked like he was chewing.  You ever pause your DVR or a movie for a moment and catch otherwise stunningly attractive people in the middle of speaking and they look like they are actually deformed when frozen in that moment?  Helen of damned troy would likely "look weird" chewing.

I think it's part of Britain's general much higher level of class consciousness.  From what I gather by listening to The Bugle and what not Milliband is seen as a deeply weird and out of touch elitist so dumb signals like how he's eating the sandwich reinforce an existing narrative.

[fastiller]

A couple of years ago, I was executrixing (ok, so not a word) my mother's estate.

It should be a word.  Now it is.

[ALenore]

You ever pause your DVR or a movie for a moment and catch otherwise stunningly attractive people in the middle of speaking and they look like they are actually deformed when frozen in that moment?  Helen of damned troy would likely "look weird" chewing

 

My huband loves to do this with the news anchors on CNN/HLN. 

[dcalley]

The budget cuts have slowed the IRS's ability to investigate and resolve fraud cases, which seem to be on the rise. cnn.com

[hincandenza]

stillshimpy, I couldn't quote just the parts I liked, because I really really loved every word of your comment, and wish I could keep clicking "Like" more than once!

 

I've long felt, as apparently you do, that the "empathy gap" is in a way the single greatest threat facing our country; it underpins so much that has gone wrong.  This perverse disconnect so many Americans have, this lack of empathy or compassion for a fellow citizen, much less a fellow human being... it's the rot behind almost all the other failings.  For every outrage John Oliver covers, there's countless Americans who either simply don't care (or have been made apathetic on purpose), or worse are actively in favor of cruelties and dehumanization. Heck, I remember during the 2012 Republican primaries, some asshole in the crowd actually cheered the idea of a man dying simply because he didn't have insurance; they cared less about a human being suffering than on keeping score in their arbitrary set of ethics or principles.  We ignore or even consider "good" things like prison rape, or children going to bed hungry because their parents dared to be poor, because all who Sin must be punished, severely.  Our criminal justice system is a Kafka-esque nightmare, yet so many people want to keep pouring on more brutality, more of their perverse and barbaric concept of "justice".  That same cruelty infects our ability to solve any national or global problem, from healthcare and education to energy and climate change.

 

Most days, I just can't see a longview for this country, this planet, or this species.  It weighs on me, and I think I gave up hoping a long time ago.  Now it's just the tiny smoldering ember of bitterness and anger that keeping me going, I guess.  If I had a front lawn, I'd be out there yelling at kids even now...

 

 

The budget cuts have slowed the IRS's ability to investigate and resolve fraud cases, which seem to be on the rise. cnn.com

 

That was exactly my point earlier; when the budget gets cut, they have to scale back on in-depth investigations and basically anything "above and beyond" the basic filing and tax collection; it's like they're in metabolic survival mode, only the most vital organs still get blood flow.  So they can collect and process the taxes paid, offer apparently insufficient customer service and staffing, and... not much else.  The "much else" would normally include more of the complex cases requiring labor-intensive work, which would actually pay for itself by pursuing the biggest rewards from the biggest cheats- who are also the people with the most money, and the most reason to cheat.  The populist rage against the IRS acts as a shield- possibly intentional- for the ultra-rich, who can dodge taxes with impunity, knowing there aren't as many "cops on the beat" these days.

[Wax Lion]

I think it's part of Britain's general much higher level of class consciousness.  From what I gather by listening to The Bugle and what not Milliband is seen as a deeply weird and out of touch elitist so dumb signals like how he's eating the sandwich reinforce an existing narrative.

 

So it's like the way our media nitpicked Gore and Kerry, trying to convince us 'Regular Joe you'd have a beer with' was the primary Presidential quality?

[dusang]

So it's like the way our media nitpicked Gore and Kerry, trying to convince us 'Regular Joe you'd have a beer with' was the primary Presidential quality?

 

Except in the UK "elitist" can borderline translate into a "let them eat cake" level of class superiority, whereas the US "elitist" is making any effort to educate yourself beyond your "gut".