S01.E13: Arms Of Mine

[ElectricBoogaloo]

SEASON FINALE!

 

Cole and Railly attempt a final confrontation with their closest enemies, and Jones faces a new threat to all that she's accomplished. Guest Star Todd Stashwick.

Promo:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FRhRlk3h-10

ETA: Sorry for the weird sound quality in the promo video but it's the only one I could find. I will replace it once SYFY posts the official promo on their youtube channel!

Edited April 4, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ooh, I like the symmetry of the season finale title - it's also the very first thing we heard in the pilot. Also of note: at the beginning of the pilot, Cole goes into the lab where Cassie originally died, picks up her watch from the rubble, and then says, "See you soon." Does this mean that this is future Cole who was sent back to 2015 and then survived the plague, saw Cassie die, and then lived until 2043 to get her watch so he could go back to 2013 in the pilot?

 

The voiceover (before he says, "See you soon"):

 

 

Where are you right now? Somewhere warm, safe, next to someone you love? Now what if all that was gone and the only thing you could do is survive? You would, right? You'd try. You'd do things, horrible things until you lose that last thing you have left - yourself. But what if you could take it back? All of it. A reset switch. You'd hit it, right? You'd have to.

 

I'll be interested to see if he was referring to all the horrible things he did to survive after the plague or the things he did when he was sent back (like killing Henri).

 

Sneak peek:

Edited April 5, 2015 by ElectricBoogaloo

[Maverick]

 SyFy showed a marathon prior to tonight's finale but in between is showing Outbreak with Dustin Hoffman.  I guess they don't have the rights to the original movie, otherwise it seems like it would make more sense.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Ha, maybe they figured another movie from 1995 about a viral outbreak and an actual monkey was close enough!

[bluebonnet]

I seriously bailed on plans I had tonight just to watch the finale.  Though, it's storming where I am and the cable keeps going in and out so I may not even get to watch it right as it airs.  But still, I'm committed!  

[Shriekingeel]

Love this show.

So happy that the whole core cast is apparently coming back next season.

[merylinkid]

Umm WOW.

 

I absolutely loved when Cassie slapped Jennifer.   Crazy does not excuse rudeness.   

 

At the beginning, Dr. Jones was "the mission is everything."   Cole was single minded too.   Save the World regardless of who he had to kill.   Cassie was all "do no harm, we can save the world without anyone getting hurt.   

 

FF to the Finale:   Dr. Jones "I was wrong."   Cole "let's talk not shoot."   Cassie "fuck this noise, we have to stop the virus regardless of who dies."   Now that is fucking development.

 

And shall we discuss Ramses?    I hate you Cole because you are trying to stop my son from coming into existence.   Oh wait I killed my best friend.   Friend, go tell my son I tried.   Friend's response 'Fuck this noise, there is another option and we will find it together."

 

Why I love this show so very much.

[wanderingstar]

I feel some type of way about Cassie & Cole being kept 28 years apart.

[Chaos Theory]

This sure what Cassie's episode and I couldn't be happier.    I mean she got to shoot someone AND travel in time.  Who says a girl can't have it all 

 

12 Monkeys = 12babies  same difference.

 

This show really does symmetry really well plus chicken and egg physics.  Time travel creating time travel.  

[caws 727]

Liked the symmetry of Cole having Cassie abandon Aaron "he made his choice" and then her saying the same thing and shooting Ramses.  Wonder how Cole saving Ramses changes anything.  And if Aaron is actually dead.  And who the hell the witness is...

 

Where is the original Dr Jones?  I guess he died from the plague?  And if Cassie is sent to the future, she can't leave the message....things are gonna be all f'd up for Season 2.   Can't wait!!

 

Is it 2016 yet?

[Bort]

It's time travel, Cassie can spend several decades in the future and still return in time to leave the message -- seemingly unaged, due to the serum.

I could not stop laughing at Jennifer's photoshop job of the same pic of Leland doing philanthropy. And Cole and Cassie's WTF looks.

[Just Here]

And the Nikita casting train continues:  Peter Outerbridge as the other Dr. Jones.  I hope we get to see both Jones interacting next season.

 

Cassie definitely earned her B.A. (badass) degree this episode:  Participating in an enhanced interrogation, slapping Jennifer, shooting Ramse, and laying on the snark, too, all while wear black.

 

Overall, a good season finale, with actual answers, including who the "12 monkeys" are, and no cheap cliffhangers.

 

(edit reason: wrong name)

Edited April 11, 2015 by Just Here

[wanderingstar]

Jennifer was a lot of fun in this episode. "Today the dodo. Tomorrow the unicorn." Ha! Don't ever change, Jennifer.

[El Seed]

So now that I've had time to pick up the pieces of my brain after it was blown, the first word that comes to mind is wow. Followed by, please, may I have some more?

 

I really liked the symmetry between the pilot and the season finale, the voiceover and a main character getting shot and then having to splinter, as well as the symmetry within the episode regarding "he made his choice."

 

Jennifer's keynote speech was a thing of beauty, starting with the montage of the same picture of Leland Goines shopped onto different photos accompanied by Bette Midler's "Wind Beneath My Wings," all the way to her sudden shift in tone that it's time for animals to make a comeback, and closing with "This year the dodo, next year the unicorn."

 

Cassie definitely took a level in badass this episode. I'm excited to see where, and when, her character goes. I'm also interested in how Cole saving Ramse changes things, if they're both stuck in the past, etc.

 

I'm glad we got some actual answers, including that the Blue Man Group is the Blue Monkey Cult and the identity of the Witness.

 

2016 can't come soon enough.

[Evie]

This show always manages to surprise me. Did not expect Cassie to be sent to the future. Of course, the future is a bit complicated right now. I'm so glad it looks like Jones will be back.

So Jones' husband was working for Splinter.

So looks like time may not be so unmovable after all. So Ramse died and Cole disappeared in The Witness' timeline? And Cassie wasn't sent forward in time? The blue man group seemed surprised by that.

Aaron was an idiot, but that was a gruesome way to go. Can't say I'm too sad to see him go.

I hope Cassie and Cole aren't separated for long. The show is best with them fighting together though Cassie and Jones should make an awesome team.

2016 seems like a long way off. Both the premiere and finale were written by the showrunners for Season 2. I liked both episodes so that's promising.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I like that we finally found out where all the red plants were coming from that were appearing in the machine in 2043.  Nothing malicious, just Dr. Jones sending plants 28 years forward as part of his testing process before getting the approval to try something more substantial.  It would have been funny if he had started using test monkeys and sent 12 of them 28 years forward.

 

Though that still doesn't explain where all those red plants came from in that lab Cassie found at Raritan -- what was that about ?

 

My big questions are: (a) why are the Blue Monkey group 'blue', (b) why is their skin so craggy (side effects of being inoculated against the virus ?)  and ( c ) where have they been all this time ?

Edited April 11, 2015 by ottoDbusdriver

[shapeshifter]

...I'm glad we got some actual answers, including that the Blue Man Group is the Blue Monkey Cult and the identity of the Witness....

Huh? I'm going to have to rewatch, but is Cassie "the witness"??

I like that we finally found out where all the red plants were coming from that were appearing in the machine in 2043.  Nothing malicious, just Dr. Jones sending plants 28 years forward as part of his testing process before getting the approval to try something more substantial...

That was my favorite part too.

My least favorite part was Cole and Cassie using torture to get Aaron to talk. Everyone knows that doesn't work. I would have much rather they had convinced him with some piece of knowledge. I really liked it when Aaron and Cole were on the same team. Is there any hope of Cassie going back to before he betrayed them to convince him not to do it?

 

...Though that still doesn't explain where all those red plants came from in that lab Cassie found at Raritan -- what was that about ?...

My guess is that they are used to make the serum. They are treated with something to make them able to travel through time, and then an extract is derived from them. Just my guess.

 

...My big questions are: (a) why are the Blue Monkey group 'blue', (b) why is there skin so craggy (side effects of being inoculated against the virus ?)  and ( c ) where have they been all this time ?

My guess is they were given the serum to be able to time travel, but now that you mention it, they would also have to be immune to the virus. I just hope they are nothing like the frickin' Ori that ruined Stargate SG1 for me.

[Rhetorica]

We begin with a quote about fate and nearly end with one. I'm glad the show didn't go in that direction. Cole saves Ramses and Cassie escapes so they changed history. Our destiny is not set in the stars. This whole episode was about choice. My oh my. I didn't like militant Cole and Cassie. The hero & heroine just beat the crap out of a guy and left him to burn alive in a fire! They are no more moral than any of the other players. Aaron had the same motives as Jones and Ramses. Saving the person he loves the most. So Dr. Jones is Jones' husband that left her... Love Jennifer's family picture! So who is the witness?

[MostlyC]

I hope Cassie and Cole aren't separated for long. The show is best with them fighting together though Cassie and Jones should make an awesome team.

 

So much this.

 

I guess time is a flexible thing.  Ramse was supposed to die; he didn't.  Cassie wasn't supposed to go to 2043 and she did.  I wonder how eerie the Red Forest Woman is going to take this news; if her unflappable-ness with be flapped.

[millahnna]

Peter Outerbridge. It's not even my birthday.

[El Seed]

I'm going to have to rewatch, but is Cassie "the witness"??

 

 

I'm pretty sure Olivia, the woman who speaks softly, indicated that she was the Witness. I'd have to rewatch to get a better understanding, not like that's a chore or anything. I could be misinterpreting her, or it could be another misdirect, like Ramse being the Witness was a misdirect.

 

Though that still doesn't explain where all those red plants came from in that lab Cassie found at Raritan -- what was that about ?

 

 

Maybe they're failed test subjects? Or they were used to create whatever it is that allows people to travel through time? Not-Katerina!Dr. Jones said the serum he gave to Ramse was difficult to procure, so perhaps it took all of those plants to create one dose. It makes me wonder if that's somehow tied to the "red forest."

 

My big questions are: (a) why are the Blue Monkey group 'blue', (b) why is there skin so craggy (side effects of being inoculated against the virus ?)  and ( c ) where have they been all this time ?

 

 

Seconded. I'd also like to add: 1) Where did Olivia and the group get those babies? Were they forcefully taken, or was there some sort of agreement?, 2) Who raised them?, 3) Why does the Blue Monkey Cult need the machine in 2043?, and 4) Is Olivia still alive in 2043, and if so does she look exactly the same?

[shapeshifter]

...I'd also like to add: 1) Where did Olivia and the group get those babies?...

I'm guessing they are test tube babies, maybe even grown in artificial wombs. Hmmm...maybe Cole, Ramse, and Cassie's DNA was used since they were all altered by the serum.

[thuganomics85]

Peter Outerbridge!  They really just getting all the big Nikita actors, aren't they?!  I wonder who they'll get next season!

 

Jennifer's keynote speech might be one of my favorite things ever.  For some reason, it really was the obvious photo-shopped Leland in all of those pictures, that just slayed me.  And, the speech by itself was just perfect (especially the unicorn bit at the very end.  With Jennifer, I actually believe her.)  I do agree on some levels that Jennifer could be a tiring character if there is too much of her, but if they keep using her like this, I am so set.  She is just so damn wacky and entertaining.

 

That said, my favorite part of the entire episode was Cassie smacking the shit out of her.  Cassie really was just at the "Do not have time for you crazy shit, girl!", about that entire thing!  Cassie is awesome.  The biggest regret I have over the final twist is that we might not get many Cassie/Jennifer scenes in the future.

 

Speaking of that twist: so, wow.  Cassie got injured, so in a last desperate attempt, Cole sent her back into 2043.  And it worked.  Oh, but Deacon and the 12 Hooded Monkeys where there to greet her.  This should be fun.  I do hope they still find ways to get plenty of Cole/Cassie, because I still think they are the best.  But I do hope we also get some Cassie/Jones now, because the actresses were great in the last episode, and I'm sure they can keep bringing it.

 

As with most things Ramse, I liked where it was going, but it was just so rushed.  Ramse really did just have a change of heart out of nowhere.  Was it just seeing Cassie injured and Cole freaking out, that made him realize how far he went?  It was just kind of weird.  Still, I really dig the brotherly rapport Aaron Stanford and Kirk Acevedo have, so I'm glad they are back on good terms.  Plus, I wonder how Cole saving him is going to change the "destined" future.

 

I would really be surprised if Aaron survived that.  I like Noah Bean, but I would be fine with him permanently dead.  I think they already took the character as far as they could go.  In the end, he was someone who let his love for someone else, make him react stupidity. Still, a brutal way to go.  Then again, wasn't he the one who brought the fire to the fight?  Bad idea, man!

 

More questions left.  Ramse isn't the witness, after-all.  Also, it looks like Jennifer is going to somehow be responsible for the virus.  Got to wait till 2016!

 

This show turned out to be a wonderful surprise, and I'm glad we are getting a second season.  A lot of credit to most of the cast and crew, but I really want to single out Aaron Stanford and Amanda Schull, who managed to make me get invested in Cole, Cassie, and their relationship, right at the start, which is honestly very rare for me.

[ottoDbusdriver]

I guess time is a flexible thing.  Ramse was supposed to die; he didn't.  Cassie wasn't supposed to go to 2043 and she did.  I wonder how eerie the Red Forest Woman is going to take this news; if her unflappable-ness with be flapped.

 

Cassie going to 2043 reminded me a little of the last episode of "Terminator: The Sarah Connor Chronicles" when John Connor traveled to the future but nobody knew who he was.

[justmehere]

I admit I'm very confused about "the witness" -- I haven't really caught all they've said about him/her -- but is it Jennifer? She's kind of been involved in one way or another from start to finish -- or at least as far forward as we've seen -- and she's apparently delivering the virus around the world. Creepy lady introduced Cassie to the witness in the hallucinations, so it doesn't seem like it's either one of them. And creepy lady made sure of Jennifer's involvement in Markridge Inc. I don't know; just a thought.

 

I'm not sure I understand the point of Ramse in the past. I know he wanted to stop Cole and ensure the virus still occurred ... so after he thought he killed Cole, he was just waiting around until the splinter machine could send him home? And in the mean time, he might as well play the money-man to finance the project? That part seemed like it could have been anyone.

 

Creepy blue men are creepy.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Oh my gawd, you guys, I started laughing so hard as soon as I heard "Wind Beneath My Wings" begin to play so I knew that Jennifer's speech would be nothing but awesome. Those photoshopped pictures of Leland were so hilarious and then she followed that up with the unicorn thing. I agree that Crazy Jennifer could definitely be too much but the writers give me just enough to find her entertaining rather than tiresome.

 

It seems like she is Olivia's pawn now. Jennifer told Cole and Cassie about Ramse/Ethan and then reported back to Olivia that she had. She didn't look very happy about it nor did she look very happy about being on the plane at the end of the episode. She told the flight attendant that she has work to do so I just assumed that she was following Olivia's orders again..

 

I agree that the growth in the characters in just 13 episodes has been great. Cassie and Cole have almost completely reversed positions. In the pilot, Cole was all about the mission, willing to murder Leland (heh, at a party, no less) and Cassie was horrified by his coldblooded violence. Now we have Cassie shooting Ramse after Cole tried to calm everyone down and not let anyone get hurt. Also remember that in the pilot, Cole said, "One life for seven billion? That math works for me." In the finale, we see that Cassie now believes that and is willing to kill Ramse to save everyone else.

 

Meanwhile, Jones was willing to sacrifice Cole and anyone else necessary in the name of the mission at the beginning but in the finale she was asking the Blue Man Group to spare Whitley and Adler and she is willing to give up control of the machine.

 

I have watched too many soap operas (and vampire shows) to believe that Aaron is really dead. Unless I see a body and it's been decapitated, the body burned, and the ashes scattered in several different location, I never truly believe any character is definitely dead. Maybe next season Aaron will be lurking in the shadows wearing a hoodie to hide his scarred face.

 

Even though I totally disagree with Ramse doing all this to save his kid, who he had just met and barely knew, I give him points for persistence and patience. He just sat back and bided his time for 28 years. So the number 28 has to mean something since he waited 28 years and then Olivia said that her Blue Man Group would be ready in 28 years. So were the women lined up outside the baby room the bio mothers? Some of them seemed a bit old (not like 80, but if I were going to choose women to breed my Blue Man Army, I would ideally want women in their 20s). Or does each baby have a separate nanny/nurse?

 

Though that still doesn't explain where all those red plants came from in that lab Cassie found at Raritan -- what was that about ?...

My guess is that they are used to make the serum. They are treated with something to make them able to travel through time, and then an extract is derived from them. Just my guess.

We already know that the red leaves are used to make the tea that Olivia had Jennifer and Cassie drink and that "they're not red unless he's been there." At the time that Jennifer said that to Ramse, I assumed that "he" was the Witness and that it was Ramse but in the finale Ramse said he wasn't the Witness.

 

We also know from Boy Jones/Raritan that the leaves turn red because of the distortion of time and space and its effect on organic matter, but the leaves that Boy Jones sent to 2043 were still green when they splintered from 2015 so they must have done some kind of experiments/splintering (like sending them into the very near future, as opposed to sending them 28 years into the future) to learn that the leaves turn red. I assumed that's where they got the red plants that Cassie found. Also keep in mind that Olivia and Ramse have been funding Raritan and Olivia/Ramse turned all the leaves red when they put the two necklaces together so at the very least, Olivia has a stash of those red leaves for nefarious tea drinking purposes and she could have had Ramse give them to Boy Jones for their research. It looked like the room Cassie found was actively growing the red leaves so I wonder if Olivia was having them grow more of the red leaves for her.

 

We also saw the plant in the bar turn red after Cole splintered a few weeks ago, so maybe these plants were near the machine and turned red from being in proximity to splintering? I'm still not clear on why Olivia had Cassie drink that tea to make her see the red forest.

[shapeshifter]

...I have watched too many soap operas (and vampire shows) to believe that Aaron is really dead. Unless I see a body and it's been decapitated, the body burned, and the ashes scattered in several different location, I never truly believe any character is definitely dead. Maybe next season Aaron will be lurking in the shadows wearing a hoodie to hide his scarred face...

Yeah. Heh. But the scarred face is so trite and sucks up the makeup budget, so I'd rather somebody go back in time to throw a blanket over him or change his mind or something.

...I'm still not clear on why Olivia had Cassie drink that tea to make her see the red forest.

Thank you for reminding me above of how we've been shown that the red plants work and come to be. So my guess would be that Olivia thought Cassie would need to be innoculated for time travel in order to fulfill her "fate" of going to 2043 for whatever reason, whether to save the world, save the company financially, or maybe even spawn Olivia.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Yeah. Heh. But the scarred face is so trite and sucks up the makeup budget, so I'd rather somebody go back in time to throw a blanket over him or change his mind or something.

Ha, ITA that we don't need scarred Aaron for all of those reasons (for me, Nick the pimp on Days of Our Lives is the standard against which all scarred by burns and lurking in the shadows to spy on the object of their affection faux Phantom of the Opera types are judged - Aaron will have to grow a ponytail for starters). If he survives, will leaving him for dead be enough to get him to team up with Olivia? Or will he be hiding in a cave for the next ten years waiting out the plague?

[FurryFury]

So it seems the plague isn't even the beginning and the end of the whole story, only a part - the real goals of 12 Monkeys are the true myth arc. I like it. The plague story is kinda limited - you either continue failing, or resolve it satisfactorily and then what? Of course, now the whole plotline is completely bonkers and I'm really afraid it's going to fall apart, like most of mythology-heavy shows do at some point. But I don't care, still digging Cassie and Cole and Jennifer and Jones (yay, she's alive! I was really afraid for her).

 

I'm a bit meh on Ramse surviving however, his whole storyline never really clicked and felt very plot-driven rather than character-driven. And seriously, Cole, you forgive him just like that? Wow.

 

Peter Outerbridge!  They really just getting all the big Nikita actors, aren't they?!  I wonder who they'll get next season!

 

I vote Melinda Clarke!

 

PS The leaves turning red after time travel really reminds me of bananas turning into jelly after time travel in Steins;gate anime.

Edited April 11, 2015 by FurryFury

[justmehere]

Might have to take back my spec about Jennifer as the Witness. Somewhat spoilery article on S2 gives some hints otherwise. (Link in the media thread.)

[Evie]

Thank you for reminding me above of how we've been shown that the red plants work and come to be. So my guess would be that Olivia thought Cassie would need to be innoculated for time travel in order to fulfill her "fate" of going to 2043 for whatever reason, whether to save the world, save the company financially, or maybe even spawn Olivia.

Originally I thought that Cole sending Cassie to the future was the same as Cole going back for Ramse. Love trumping fate. That's a good point about Olivia/Cassie and the red forest though. Maybe Cassie being sent to the future was preordained and Olivia was preparing her somehow.

I'm curious about future Jennifer. She definitely appeared to be Olivia's pawn in 2015. I'm wondering about 2043? She gave Ramse the necklace, which seemed like an Olivia-ordered action, but I watched those scenes again and she was talking about how Ramse will be a good friend and not everything is preordained.

[BooBear]

 Maybe Cassie being sent to the future was preordained and Olivia was preparing her somehow.

I am wondering how Cassie won't get sick in the future. She will be exposed to the plague right? / she can't stay for long.

 

I was a little disappointed as it didn't see like we really moved the plot along.  I hope Noah Bean has some better job offer because it seemed a crazy waste of his character (though admittedly he was becoming a 3rd wheel). I thought Cole forgave quick but I have always felt that he is heavily influenced by Ramse. I love that this show is practically Nikia 2. HA!

[Bort]

I am wondering how Cassie won't get sick in the future. She will be exposed to the plague right? / she can't stay for long.

Cassie wasn't immune to the first version of the plague, the one that killed her, but maybe she's immune to the later mutations? They also said that they had cures for the earlier versions (that don't do any good because the only people left alive at this point are the immune) so maybe Jones will innoculate her?

[shapeshifter]

I am wondering how Cassie won't get sick in the future. She will be exposed to the plague right? / she can't stay for long.

Cassie wasn't immune to the first version of the plague, the one that killed her, but maybe she's immune to the later mutations? They also said that they had cures for the earlier versions (that don't do any good because the only people left alive at this point are the immune) so maybe Jones will innoculate her?

Or maybe the red tea inoculated her. Or the time travel injection might allow her to fight it off/survive it.

[richii0207]

Amazing episode.

After a hard thought of this....what if Cassie was the witness the whole time posing as the the 12 Monkey leader.

1)Throughout the season, the witness always wore the plague mask, something Cassie mentioned in the beginning of the season as she was obsessed with the bubonic plague in attempt to deceive the woman, Ramses, and the creepy man with the scar.

-Cassie realizes in the future what the initial plans were with the lady and scarface so she "replaces" the leader and goes back in time. This makes sense that in order for herself/Cassie to go to the future, she needed to tell Cole where the machine was in the last episode.

2) When Cassie was kidnapped, she never sees the witness' face for the same reason Cole couldn't see himself from a different time.

3)The red forest/plants that was explained to Cassie from the witness could have been only been known by Cassie because she was the only person to see the plants. Maybe it was a hint for that particular part?

4)This whole thing had already happened already. The witness/Cassie lied to the lady that Cole would disappear (so they won't hunt him anymore) and that Ramse would die (she thought he died? when she went through the machine ).

[Evie]

Or maybe the red tea inoculated her. Or the time travel injection might allow her to fight it off/survive it.

They've shown people being scanned for contamination as they enter the facility too. If she's not innoculated somehow, she might be okay if she stays inside. That's probably unlikely though with the potential fun interactions with people like Future Jennifer could bring.

[kat165]

Are we basing Ramses not being the Witness off of his denial of knowing who/what that is? Or was there further info that we can assume this? All I can recall is Ramses denial which in itself doesn't prove he isn't the Witness. Just that he doesn't know about it. Or says he doesn't know about it.

 

Also, does he realize the Olivia used him? She sums up at the end of the episode "..and Ethan Sic (sp?) dies next to the....(whatever she called the time machine)" and then she babbles something about Fate. So if it was his fate to die besides the machine, did he know that? I would assume not because he seemed to think he was going to back to 2043 and be with his son. And now that he doesn't will he realized that he's been played? If he does and if Cole can get him to healer, will he seek vengence?

 

I recall in last week's ep that Dr. Kat Jones had left her husband/divorced him so maybe she was part of the Splinter project, but their failed relationship caused her to leave. But maybe then he dies of the virus and she comes back & takes over.

 

EB, I'm with you on Aaron's "death." I'm expecting him back next season as a defaced guy in a mask/body suit.

 

I'd like to know how Blue Man Group from the future jetted back to 2043 to stage this little takeover. Do they have a better time machine or one that's failing? What do they want in 2043? More time travel serum?

 

From EB's post, did Ramses come off like he did know about a Witness, but said that it wasn't him? I'm not remembering the scene clearly. I've been thinking he knew nothing about any Witness when Cole asked him.

 

And I'm not clear, still, on why Cassie needed to see the Red Forrest.

 

Are the babies the 12 monkeys or are the Blue Man Group? I tried to count them but couldn't as it went by too fast.

Ok, I just watched the trailer, what to dexpect in 2015/season 2 (in the media thread) and realize

that those babies are probably those time travelers who are now in 2043. Sorry.

[ottoDbusdriver]

Are the babies the 12 monkeys or are the Blue Man Group? I tried to count them but couldn't as it went by too fast.

 

The babies are the Blue Man Group -- when Olivia's assistant takes her to seem them, Olivia says "All 12" or something similar.

[oliverwendell]

I couldn't watch it on Friday and Syfy won't let me watch it for a week so I actually paid Amazon $2.99 so I could watch it yesterday.  That's the measure of an addictive show for me, and it did not disappoint.  I love the character reversals between Cassie and Cole -- everything from who's the time traveler now to who's got the "sacrifices must be made" attitude. The latter was especially well done, because I could see throughout the season how Cassie influenced Cole to rediscover his humanity and instinct for mercy, while Cole convinced Cassie that a few human lives are chump change and easily spent to save the billions the plague will kill.  Even Ramse's argument became a little clearer to me.  That line about how he's been living among ghosts for 28 years really resonated:  he views all these people as already dead, and that the future belongs to his son and the other plague survivors.  It's a point of view that is undermined but not totally invalidated by the fact that time travel is possible.  It will be interesting to see how he and Cole interact next season, because even though Ramse sacrificed his chance to return to his son so that Cassie could live, I don't think he's changed his essential thinking on To Plague or Not to Plague.

 

In short, I'm most definitely showing up for Season 2.

Edited April 13, 2015 by fourteenwords

[shapeshifter]

...I love the character reversals between Cassie and Cole -- everything from who's the time traveler now to who's got the "sacrifices must be made" attitude. The latter was especially well done, because I could see throughout the season how Cassie influenced Cole to rediscover his humanity and instinct for mercy, while Cole convinced Cassie that a few human lives are chump change and easily spent to save the billions the plague will kill...

Reading this post makes this story seem like a version of The Gift of the Magi.

[Rhetorica]

Reading this post makes this story seem like a version of The Gift of the Magi.

In "The Gift of the Magi", they both sacrficed something in order to give something. What do you think Cole and Cassie sacrificed?

[shapeshifter]

In "The Gift of the Magi", they both sacrficed something in order to give something. What do you think Cole and Cassie sacrificed?

Good question.

Cole sacrificed Cassie. Admittedly, she would've likely died anyway, but now they are eternally separated for sure (or at least until season 2).

Cassie sacrificed her ethical standard of the ends don't justify the means.

[Cthulhudrew]

"Nothing is more powerful than fate."

 

Don't these people ever watch movies? Read a book? Write a poem?

 

Love, mofos! Love always trumps fate.

 

Even in the 80s.

Jennifer was a lot of fun in this episode. "Today the dodo. Tomorrow the unicorn." Ha! Don't ever change, Jennifer.

My favorite was her sotto voice "I hate you" to Cassie. lol

[Rhetorica]

Good question.

Cole sacrificed Cassie. Admittedly, she would've likely died anyway, but now they are eternally separated for sure (or at least until season 2).

Cassie sacrificed her ethical standard of the ends don't justify the means.

Until season two-

[ElectricBoogaloo]

I wonder who will feel more pain for the sacrifice, Cole or Cassie. I don't think Cassie has had time to reflect on her actions.

I agree that Cassie has had very little time to think about everything she has done since Cole showed up at the hotel. Since then, it has been go go go for her. She is either running around with Cole or doing research for when he returns so I don't think she has really had the time to sit down and process everything because she is so busy living in the moment, trying to save the world. The only time I remember her showing any kind of, well, not regret, exactly, but reaction was when Cole reappeared in 2017 and she told him that a lot had happened since 2015. Granted she was dying so she was probably taking stock of everything but that was the kind of reaction we haven't seen from her in 2015. I think once she gets to 2043 and stops bleeding, she is going to start realizing all the repercussions of the mission.

[Jordan27]

Nick the pimp on Days of Our Lives is the standard against which all scarred by burns and lurking in the shadows to spy on the object of their affection faux Phantom of the Opera types are judged.

 

Wow, an old DOOL fan.  That was a great plotline.  Oh Nick, he was great to root for.

 

Melinda Clarke.

 

A former DOOL actor.  The real life daughter of John Clarke, who played Mickey Horton for years on Days.

[ElectricBoogaloo]

Wow, an old DOOL fan.  That was a great plotline.  Oh Nick, he was great to root for.

I remember Evie was hiding out in the creepy abandoned mansion and he was always listening to her sing "Wind Beneath My Wings." The first time I heard Bette Midler's version on the radio, the first thing I thought was, "Wait, isn't this the song Evie constantly sang on Days of Our Lives?" If Aaron starts creeping around listening to Cassie sing, I might be okay with it.

 

Interestingly on this week's episode of Arrow, there was a virus about to be released on Hong Kong. There was a vaccine that innoculate people against it. The main character managed to steal enough for four people. He wanted a father, mother, and their son to take some and then find somewhere safe. The main character planned to take some and then find a way to stop the virus from being released. The mother refused to run, insisting that she and her husband had to help the main character stop the virus. She said, "What example are we setting for our son if we have a hope to save millions of innocent people but only save ourselves?" I found myself thinking heh, ask Aaron and Ramse that question!

[Jordan27]

Yep, this is becoming a big movie and TV trope for a character to sacrifice many, sometimes hundreds, thousands or millions for one person.  Who would do this?

[Cardie]

The Blue Man group members (formerly the 12 Babies) are older than 28, so that's why they have to have traveled back from the further future. Do we think they skipped the plague years and immediately traveled to the far future in 2015? I think not because if they had the serum in 2015, they'd be eternal infants.

[riverheightsnancy]

I have to say that I had reservations that they could make this series without screwing it up. As a MAJOR fan of the movie, (it is one of my hands down favorites, and Brad Pitt is a revelation as the "Jennifer/Jefferey" character), I just figured that it would really be horrible, or a scene-for-scene copy. I think that they kept enough of the threads of the original to set the stage or foundation of the show, but have created so many new and interesting events, that it really has become it's own thing now. I still expect that the ultimate ending will harken back to the ending in the movie. I guess that I am hopefully or thinking that it will. That would tie it all up for me, but if they decide to go in a different direction then I think that they have established enough difference to be able to pull it off.  Really loved the season finale and curious about where it will all go.