S14.E23: Top 8 Perform

[Shades of Red]

Was just re-watching some of the N.Y. auditions and was quite surprised to see how many of the top ten came from there - Jax, Nick and Qaasim.  I know they showed Shi as well (I know she didn't make it far).  Having watched this once again reminded me that Nick auditioned with his girlfriend.  Have we seen her again?  I haven't paid much attention when the "family/friends" thing comes up so it's possible she may be there to support him but it just hasn't registered with me.  When he was being told to keep his eyes open etc couldn't someone have suggested he pretend he's singing to his girlfriend?

 

I didn't watch idol in the earlier seasons so don't know much about Kelly.  I'm going to agree with a previous poster who commented on her calling out Harry - hilarious.  She seems like she's easy going and takes things in stride.

[Kendall]

Personally, I believe Kelly would've won any season she was on pre-8, before the white guys and the demo that voted for them officially took over; imo, she's leagues above anyone who won 8-13 except 12, but so were several from those seasons who didn't win. Her only real competition would've been Carrie and Ruben, and she had more personality then than either of them while they were on the show to go with the voice. (This coming from someone who loved Jordin, btw.) The only guarantee is that she would've lost to Taylor Hicks--the wtf season of the early years.

 

Hilarious!

 

She wouldn't have beaten Ruben OR Clay, she'd be pressed to have gotten past Kimberly Locke. She probably would've gotten on the show and advanced as far as Kimberly Caldwell, so that would be Top 7.

 

In Season 3, she may have been able to grab Leah LaBelle's spot, but would've been the first one out. She wouldn't have made ANY impact whatsoever on the "divas" that season and wouldn't have been able to attain the anti-diva vote that Diana DeGarmo won. So, no win in Season 3 either.

 

In Season 4, Carrie and Jessica Sierra would've pimpslapped Kelly all over the soundstage! She would've done no better than Mikaylah or Lindsey Cardinale, Top 11 and 12. She could not have beaten Mario Vasquez had he stayed in the competiton and once again, Carrie and Bo. ABSOLUTELY NO WIN in Season 4.

 

In Season 5, Ayla Brown was the only flat chested, average looking girl in the top 12. By that season, appearance played a part just as much as the voice, so she may not have even gotten in the top 36! Every other girl that season slayed Kelly in appearance and/or voice. Paris was a front runner going in, Mandisa was a powerhouse singer and a runaway hit after her "I'm Every Woman" performance.

 

Kellie Pickler was just as "funny" and a pretty blonde that wanted to sing country in the season after the show just hit it big with Carrie, so she was a shoo in. Katharine McPhee was an absolute stunner and had a cult following before they even got to the Top 12.

 

Oh yeah and Taylor. No win.

 

In Season 6, the show was coming off back to back seasons of fanatical women pretending that the Idol men were their TV boyfriends with Bo and Taylor, so they had the women singers as the meat and talent and the male singers as the eye candy. Kelly wouldn't have even snagged Haley Scarnato's spot as she was that season's Katharine McPhee, they even dressed her up like Katharine.

 

No win, not even a spot in the Top whatever.

 

She may have been able to get onto Season 7, but win? Ha! David and David had that locked down and the show was pushing Carly Smithson.

 

By Season 8, the only spots she could be reasonably traded for was Megan Joy and Alexis Grace. Although revealed in previous seasons, the show finally made no effort to hide the fact that they were a TV show above all. They completely changed how they did the semi-finals and practically engineered who they wanted in the finals.

 

The groups were completely slanted for as much male eye-candy and diversity as possible for the highest ratings. Allison and Lil Rounds were the two girls they needed to stay around to "balance" the sausage fest that American Idol was unabashedly going for from there on out.

 

Season One is the only Kelly could've won during Idol's "better" days.

[TheGreenKnight]

I would argue, but I couldn't make sense out of any of that, or why any of those are legitimate reasons for why she wouldn't win. I don't feel differently about anything I said, regardless.

[Kendall]

I would argue, but I couldn't make sense out of any of that, or why any of those are legitimate reasons for why she wouldn't win. I don't feel differently about anything I said, regardless.

 

You couldn't make sense out of the specific contestants and objective reasons as to why your subjective belief that Kelly could've won any of the first eight seasons is for the most part, tenuous?

 

Part of the prevailing notion as to why Kelly is the "greatest Idol of all time" is because she was/is "so much better" than any other subsequent Idol and the other participating contestants. That is definitely the reason why people believe she won the first season. If one can understand that when favoring Kelly ... then can it really be difficult to understand when presented with Idols and seasonal situations that she wasn't "so much better" than and years that she simply would not have won?

 

Perhaps it is. I stand by what I've said: Kelly wouldn't have won any other season other than the first season and perhaps, a few of these most recent ones.

[vibeology]

I'd watched this in bits and pieces yesterday and I'd skipped the group song. Just watched it. That was horrid. I don't know the contestants well enough, but who was that all out of tune and stinking things up? That high pitched whine? No one in that group can blend.

 

You couldn't make sense out of the specific contestants and objective reasons as to why your subjective belief that Kelly could've won any of the first eight seasons is for the most part, tenuous?

 

Part of the prevailing notion as to why Kelly is the "greatest Idol of all time" is because she was/is "so much better" than any other subsequent Idol and the other participating contestants. That is definitely the reason why people believe she won the first season. If one can understand that when favoring Kelly ... then can it really be difficult to understand when presented with Idols and seasonal situations that she wasn't "so much better" than and years that she simply would not have won?

 

Perhaps it is. I stand by what I've said: Kelly wouldn't have won any other season other than the first season and perhaps, a few of these most recent ones.

 

Except every one of those following seasons was shaped by the first season. In season 2, people (and the show) pushed for Ruben because in part of the robovotes. If Justin or Tamyra had won season 1, that push wouldn't have been there. The producers stacked that cast in season 2 to sway things towards a black male winner. The fact all those divas showed up in season 3 was no coincidence either. The show cast a plethora of black women in an effort to get a "diva-off." Had Tamyra won season 1, that wouldn't have been necessary.

 

You can't go back and try to slide Kelly into the other seasons (especially the early ones most influenced by the first season) because if someone else had won that first year, the producers' game plan for the next few seasons would have been very different and anyone who has spent even a little time watching this show knows how strongly they influence each season with things like edits, performance order and judges comments. I don't know that she'd win, but you can't know that she'd lose.

[Stratego]

Yes! I will try to burrow-back to Wednesday's performances. Let's see if we can get a poll (or something) about who won't be voted-through to perform this next Wednesday, April 7? I think Rayvon "saved himself" twice last week--and we'll hear him again. I'm thinking that it's Qaasim who will be "hugging Good-bye" to everyone.

[Foghorn Leghorn]

I vote Qassim!

[Kromm]

It is the group that includes Rayvon in Hollywood Week, in a Youtube video I posted, if you scroll very upwards.

It's still probably a good idea to avoid acronyms overall.  Especially since the context to know what BLVD is isn't even in the clip or your original post--someone literally has to remember parts of the original broadcast outside of the clip.  Even "SUBG" probably might go over some heads, even though we're discussing Kelly Clarkson, just because I don't think people's minds always go to the right context when they see an acronym for a kind of thing (a song) that isn't normally represented by acronyms.  

 

I do agree that Rayvon's group was decent.  But Rayvon did have that terrible wacked out high note in the middle of that performance, which just came off as kind of stupid and immature.  I've actually not minded him during the bulk of these live shows, but seeing that group clip and his dumbass high note kind of reminds me of some of the reservations I had about him in the first place.

[BogoGog24]

Based on vocal performances, it should without a doubt be Qaasim. He was already voted out once by the public and they'll vote him out again.

[loveoutloud]

Based on vocal performances, it should without a doubt be Qaasim. He was already voted out once by the public and they'll vote him out again.

 

I completely agree with you but because of the Twitter Save, I feel like he's not going anywhere anytime soon. The kid is good at digging himself out of desperate situations and putting on a show (and the judges LOVE it because he hypes up the crowd), so I feel like the Save might help him last a few weeks longer.

Edited April 5, 2015 by loveoutloud

[BogoGog24]

I completely agree with you but because of the Twitter Save, I feel like he's not going anywhere anytime soon. The kid is good at digging himself out of desperate situations and putting on a show (and the judges LOVE it because he hypes up the crowd), so I feel like the Save might help him last a few weeks longer.

For the public to save him by Twitter vote he'd have to put on a hell of a performance and be better than whoever the other person is. It didn't work with Daniel, so maybe it wouldn't work with Q either. I would hope that even his most dedicated fans would realize his time is up and that the rest left are better vocalists. The fact he was already voted off once makes me think America can make the right choice.

[Sparkling Beth]

Did they say they're doing the Twitter Save every week now? I was hoping it was just a one-time gimmick.

[BogoGog24]

Who knows. Every week the rules change. For all we know, now that Daniel is gone they'll decide to get rid of it.

[Raven1707]

Well, they weren't entirely excluded, but it would've required streaming the East Coast broadcast and voting or going to the AI website.  So not easy or convenient, and yes, a bit unfair.

 

I'm in the west and voting was pretty simple. Since it was a Twitter Save, all that you needed was to actually be on Twitter. Ryan posted a tweet with a link to the live east coast feed. Watch the performances, tweet #SaveRayvon, and wave goodbye to Daniel.

 

Nick reminds me way too much of Daughtry when he sings. He has all the same mannerisms, but he's better-looking.  Daughtry's OK, but I was insanely happy when his smug self got cut from Idol back in the day.

 

Ah yes, the blowfish!

[Kendall]

I'd watched this in bits and pieces yesterday and I'd skipped the group song. Just watched it. That was horrid. I don't know the contestants well enough, but who was that all out of tune and stinking things up? That high pitched whine? No one in that group can blend.

 

 

Except every one of those following seasons was shaped by the first season. In season 2, people (and the show) pushed for Ruben because in part of the robovotes. If Justin or Tamyra had won season 1, that push wouldn't have been there. The producers stacked that cast in season 2 to sway things towards a black male winner. The fact all those divas showed up in season 3 was no coincidence either. The show cast a plethora of black women in an effort to get a "diva-off." Had Tamyra won season 1, that wouldn't have been necessary.

 

You can't go back and try to slide Kelly into the other seasons (especially the early ones most influenced by the first season) because if someone else had won that first year, the producers' game plan for the next few seasons would have been very different and anyone who has spent even a little time watching this show knows how strongly they influence each season with things like edits, performance order and judges comments. I don't know that she'd win, but you can't know that she'd lose.

 

But, even that supposed push for Ruben almost didn't work as the voting was still close between him and Clay. So, even if Tamyra had won, Kelly would not have beaten Clay, thus no win in Season 2. You're saying that you can't slide Kelly into every season and make a declaration, but that is usually the sentiment whenever Kelly comes up: she's so much better than everyone else.

 

But, let me pull back as suddenly, Kelly, a main theme of the thread can no longer be discussed since I'm disputing her greatness.

[ari333]

Well, I enjoy Kelly so much. I flove love Ruben, so there's that. Adam Lambert ruined this show for me as in no one else can touch him. But all in all...

..... well now I forgot my point.... so meh

[Ohwell]

let's get out of the name calling and personal affronts, okay?

I didn't see any name calling and personal affronts about Kelly.  However, I do agree it's probably time to move on from her in this thread.

 

Back on topic:  I kinda liked little Daniel because while he realized he was too inexperienced for this competition, he also seemed very grateful for this experience.  I wish he had gotten saved over Rayvon, and then exited next week. 

[auntlada]

Back on topic:  I kinda liked little Daniel because while he realized he was too inexperienced for this competition, he also seemed very grateful for this experience.  I wish he had gotten saved over Rayvon, and then exited next week. 

 

I did like that about Daniel. He seemed interested in hearing what the judges had to say. I hope he really was and that he takes the things they said and works on them. Of course, even if he does work on those things and gets really good as he grows up, the chance of making it in the music business is still pretty darn small.

[TheGreenKnight]

Part of the prevailing notion as to why Kelly is the "greatest Idol of all time" is because she was/is "so much better" than any other subsequent Idol and the other participating contestants. That is definitely the reason why people believe she won the first season. If one can understand that when favoring Kelly ... then can it really be difficult to understand when presented with Idols and seasonal situations that she wasn't "so much better" than and years that she simply would not have won?

You'd have to agree they were better than her first, I'd guess. I don't. The judges don't matter too much with me, considering they were looking at Tamyra and Justin in the first season before Kelly inserted herself into the equation. The same would happen in the other seasons--and I doubt they'd even try to stop her during 3 or 6 where they were already pushing the girls.

 

Anyway--If I had to predict who would be going next, I'd say it'll be one of the black guys (ideally Quaasim) or one of Joey and Jax because they both fill a "quirky, unique, white girl" role and the vote's probably divided between them.

[Mya Stone]

Alright, this has gone horribly off the rails and also gotten way too personal. 

If you want to post/debate/talk/snark about Kelly Clarkson, take it to this thread.  If you continue to derail/be rude to each other, I'll give you a holiday. Hint: It's not filled with creepy dead-eyed bunnies and all the chocolate and jelly beans you can eat. 

 

[BogoGog24]

You'd have to agree they were better than her first, I'd guess. I don't. The judges don't matter too much with me, considering they were looking at Tamyra and Justin in the first season before Kelly inserted herself into the equation. The same would happen in the other seasons--and I doubt they'd even try to stop her during 3 or 6 where they were already pushing the girls.

 

Anyway--If I had to predict who would be going next, I'd say it'll be one of the black guys (ideally Quaasim) or one of Joey and Jax because they both fill a "quirky, unique, white girl" role and the vote's probably divided between them.

 

I like both Joey and JAX and always vote for both. But I guess not everyone could feel that way, some may only like one or the other, or like both but not equally.

[Stratego]

I like both Joey and JAX and always vote for both. But I guess not everyone could feel that way, some may only like one or the other, or like both but not equally.

I wouldn't concerned about either of those two--they'll still be around come (what) May.

[Waldo13]

I wouldn't concerned about either of those two--they'll still be around come (what) May.

IMO Jax and Joey are the class of the girls and should be able to make it to top 4. I don't think both being a little quirky will cancel either one of them out to that point. If either one of them are voted out, It's possible that Jax's fans will vote for Joey and visa versa making the fan base even stronger. If Jax or Joey is voted out, than I see the survivor making F2. At F7, I don't see AI as a singing/performance based vote anymore. It's now a fan base competition. I believe AI has stopped doing the bottom 3 results because of this.

[howmanywords]

I'm not sure if Joey and Jax' fanbases overlap that much. I mean guess they could but for some but for me them simply being quirky doesn't make them that similar. I like Joey and find her to be genuine, yet Jax I don't like at all and she comes off as fake to me. I would never vote for Jax if Joey is voted off.

The thing about this being about fan bases now is a little different if this Twitter save is a weekly thing. Daniel had triple the amount of followers but Rayvon beat him. The voting for this takes place in a 5 minute window, not all west coast people may be able to vote and performance quality just may make a difference in this case if the twitter thing continues.

[TheGreenKnight]

^ I suppose you're right--I don't really like Jax as much as Joey, so maybe their voters wouldn't overlap? Then again, I wouldn't vote for etiher of them. But Joey seems much nicer/genuine and, if she won, I'd be hard-pressed to be too bothered by it even though I think she's a weak singer.

[BogoGog24]

Daniel explained what he thought may have happened with the Twitter voting. Apparently there is an age restriction, so naturally a lot of his followers are probably too young. Second, while there is a way for the West coast to participate I don't think or know if Ryan explained it at all and therefore nobody knew there was a way for the West coast to vote.

Additionally, Daniel may have lots of followers, but there could also be tons of people voting against Daniel, even if they are not Rayvon fans (I was). Now there are 3-4 people I like but I haven't followed them on Twitter yet so there could be others like that as well and they could have more followers than just what Twitter shows. I don't know Daniels exact numbers but let's say he has 50,000 followers but then the fanbases of all the others decide to vote against him. That could have happened as well and while none of the other fanbases are as big, them all added together would be enough to beat Daniel.

[OakGoblinFly]

So glad Daniel is gone but I absolutely Hated that Twiiter Save, wtf???? And Ryan keep saying " who'll get the save" ...., well, one of them did not need it because they did not get the lowest number of votes!!!!! Hopefully Daniel was the lowest because it would be so unfair if he didnt and got sent home though Twitter, really show? Why should people bother to vote if you're going to ignore the results and thow it open to twitter!!! It would really be a travesty if the voting wasn't even close between the bottom two and the higher vote getter went home! Stop it!

 

 

Doesn't the show make money from the Tweets?

[howmanywords]

Daniel explained what he thought may have happened with the Twitter voting. Apparently there is an age restriction, so naturally a lot of his followers are probably too young. Second, while there is a way for the West coast to participate I don't think or know if Ryan explained it at all and therefore nobody knew there was a way for the West coast to vote.

Additionally, Daniel may have lots of followers, but there could also be tons of people voting against Daniel, even if they are not Rayvon fans (I was). Now there are 3-4 people I like but I haven't followed them on Twitter yet so there could be others like that as well and they could have more followers than just what Twitter shows. I don't know Daniels exact numbers but let's say he has 50,000 followers but then the fanbases of all the others decide to vote against him. That could have happened as well and while none of the other fanbases are as big, them all added together would be enough to beat Daniel.

If thats all true then 1) I feel bad for Daniel and 2) it just further proves how much I REALLY hate this Twitter save and how it could really make things unpredictable. It really sucks that someone could give a crappy performance one week but then give a great 'save' performance and then someone who may not have even been the lowest vote getter could get booted.

[AndreaK1041]

I don't think it makes money from the tweets.  The goal was to get Idol related items trending, thus getting the show much needed attention.  I live on the West coast and I was trying to figure out the bottom 2 from trends, but hilariously, they didn't even make the top 10.  I don't watch The Voice, but I've many times seen their save items show up on Twitter.

 

How would they know the age of the person with the Twitter account?  That would be some creepy Big Brother NSA stuff if Idol was able to pull that info for each account and match it to votes within a matter of 5 minutes. The average person cannot look at someone's account and see the user's age.

[Waldo13]

I don't think it makes money from the tweets. The goal was to get Idol related items trending, thus getting the show much needed attention. I live on the West coast and I was trying to figure out the bottom 2 from trends, but hilariously, they didn't even make the top 10. I don't watch The Voice, but I've many times seen their save items show up on Twitter.

How would they know the age of the person with the Twitter account? That would be some creepy Big Brother NSA stuff if Idol was able to pull that info for each account and match it to votes within a matter of 5 minutes. The average person cannot look at someone's account and see the user's age.

The way I look at it, there is no way of telling that Rayvon actually received the second least amount of votes so sending him home would be completely unfair. Why would they allow 5 min of voting overshadow the much longer nationwide vote? Either the Twitter voting was just a red herring or they were going to add Twitter votes to nationwide votes. Of all of AI's secrets, voting and how voting is tabulated is kept closest to the vest. The first rule of AI is that you don't talk about AI production. Everybody, even the contestants, have to sign a non disclosure contract.

I'm glad that they limited the votes but I don't know how Ryan feels about it. Ryan use to get his once a week chubby when he would announce that after the nationwide vote ------ million votes were cast.

Edited April 6, 2015 by Waldo13

[dizzyizzy01]

I don't think it makes money from the tweets.  The goal was to get Idol related items trending, thus getting the show much needed attention.  I live on the West coast and I was trying to figure out the bottom 2 from trends, but hilariously, they didn't even make the top 10.  I don't watch The Voice, but I've many times seen their save items show up on Twitter.

 

How would they know the age of the person with the Twitter account?  That would be some creepy Big Brother NSA stuff if Idol was able to pull that info for each account and match it to votes within a matter of 5 minutes. The average person cannot look at someone's account and see the user's age.

 

There is a LOT of analytics that go into the Twitter and its user-base.  That's a big part of monetizing the platform.  Also, for the show, Twitter factors into overall ratings calculations now, so that's another thing that can directly impact a TV show from a financial perspective.

[ari333]

The twitter vote thing blows (imo)

 

That is all.

[BogoGog24]

I wish they would just get rid of it. Whoever has the lowest votes goes home. They had ONE safety net in case a Daughtry or Jessica Sanchez happened and they blew it. At this point, the votes should stand as they are.

[PamelaMaeSnap]

1) "Additionally, Daniel may have lots of followers, but there could also be tons of people voting against Daniel, even if they are not Rayvon fans (I was)."

 

This. I am not an active fan of Rayvon but I tweeted "SaveRayvon" as a vote AGAINST Daniel and I'm sure i wasn't alone. 

 

2) Age restriction? That's going to stop someone already on Twitter, and someone already following Daniel? Who can only tweet #SaveDaniel once? I sincerely doubt that "age restrictions" had ANY impact on the Twitter vote and if Daniel is using that as an explanation/excuse then I just lost a bit of the respect I had for him. He lost because his expiration date had expired long ago.

 

3) I think the fact that someone can go to the AI app and with one mouse click enter 20 votes for any and ALL contestants was created to inflate that "eleventy mazillion votes tallied this week" that gives Ryan that chubby. 

 

4) I would be surprised to see Joey and Jax share much in the Venn Diagram of fanbases ... other than both being blonde and quirky, they are SO not alike ... Jax is super trendy current bleh (YMMV) and Joey is totally throwback. I have loved Joey from Day One and detested Jax with the power of a thousand nuns since that same Day One.

[Kromm]

4) I would be surprised to see Joey and Jax share much in the Venn Diagram of fanbases ... other than both being blonde and quirky

Joey is currently blond by way of blue/pink/green/purple/random dye color of the week, so there's not even that.

[proserpina65]

3) I think the fact that someone can go to the AI app and with one mouse click enter 20 votes for any and ALL contestants was created to inflate that "eleventy mazillion votes tallied this week" that gives Ryan that chubby.

 

Given that it was 50 votes per method (I believe) the last couple of seasons, and before that, as many times as your little fingers could text or dial, the vote inflation has actually been reduced drastically.

[Padma]

Daniel explained what he thought may have happened with the Twitter voting. Apparently there is an age restriction, so naturally a lot of his followers are probably too young. Second, while there is a way for the West coast to participate I don't think or know if Ryan explained it at all and therefore nobody knew there was a way for the West coast to vote.

Additionally, Daniel may have lots of followers, but there could also be tons of people voting against Daniel, even if they are not Rayvon fans (I was). Now there are 3-4 people I like but I haven't followed them on Twitter yet so there could be others like that as well and they could have more followers than just what Twitter shows. I don't know Daniels exact numbers but let's say he has 50,000 followers but then the fanbases of all the others decide to vote against him. That could have happened as well and while none of the other fanbases are as big, them all added together would be enough to beat Daniel.

That's just annoying. I guess Daniel (and his parents, who probably provided this explanation to him) have a hard time understanding that he just wasn't very good and was lucky to be "cute" enough and novel enough at 15/16 to have gotten as far as he did.

 

I find it difficult to believe they thought he deserved to go further on talent, and if it was just to get further because lots of young kids would be voting for him well, on a talent contest, should that really feel quite right?