S10.E17: Inside Man

[DittyDotDot]

I think that was a callback to when Dean was a demon, and he and Crowley were hanging out in dive bars. Everything that Dean was doing at the bar was on the one hand ordinary and fun, but on the other hand, exactly the stuff that he kept doing as a demon. It's all the interests/stuff that ordinary!Dean and demon!Dean have in common.

 

I was referring to Mother's Little Helper where Dean hangs around a bar playing pool while chit-chatting with Crowley. I do believe that episode aired around the same time last year.

[DittyDotDot]

Oh, that makes sense -- maybe he stopped wearing it once he lost his nice lighter? Maybe now he doesn't need a ring to open bottles, because he's carrying around a bic :)

 

The ring was something Jensen and Kripke came up with as something Dean would wear--just like the necklace--apparently Kripke had this idea Dean would have all these little eclectic things he'd picked up along the way. When they took away the necklace in S5, Jensen said he was relieved because it always got in the way anyway and was problematic in fight scenes (apparently he had a chipped tooth or two) and they decided to get rid of all Dean's accessories like the ring and the watch he used to wear too.

[rue721]

I was referring to Mother's Little Helper where Dean hangs around a bar playing pool while chit-chatting with Crowley. I do believe that episode aired around the same time last year.

 

Crowley and Dean have shared plenty of drinks and chats at this point. But I think the overall point of Dean's storyline in the bar was to show how smudged the line is between ordinary!Dean and demon!Dean. Dean *was* himself and acting like himself in those scenes, just doing things he's done a million times before, just having a regular Tuesday or whatever -- but it really was not all that different (different at all?) from a "regular Tuesday" for demon!Dean, either.

 

When Dean was fighting off those spelled college kids, and had those flashbacks and decided to throw the stick aside, and then decided to let Rowena go in order for the kids to be spared, he was making it clear that he *was* regular!Dean, *not* a demon. But then he had the same after-brawl drink'n'chat with Crowley (*not* with Sam) as he did when he was a demon. He's in more control now, but just who "he" is has gotten fuzzier, imo.

[DittyDotDot]

Crowley and Dean have shared plenty of drinks and chats at this point. But I think the overall point of Dean's storyline in the bar was to show how smudged the line is between ordinary!Dean and demon!Dean.

 

Sigh. Yes, I understand that...it was just a snarky comment on my part on how I feel Crowley and Dean sitting around in bars chatting has been done to death at this point. Seems to me like there could be other options of what to do with these characters and convey the same ideas.

[catrox14]

So the opening scene of Dean have nightmares has sploded the internet for obvious subtext reasons.  I've decided that Dean was basically have kill-gasms in his sleep thus the highly ambiguous scenes.  You're welcome.

[Bruinsfan]

I don't think what Mary did to stop the poltergeist would have destroyed her, it probably just untethered her from the old house so she could go to her final reward (hopefully in Heaven). As for John, I would assume that refusing to submit to evil for a subjective century in Hell would earn him some brownie points regarding the final disposition of his afterlife.

[rue721]

Sigh. Yes, I understand that...it was just a snarky comment on my part on how I feel Crowley and Dean sitting around in bars chatting has been done to death at this point. Seems to me like there could be other options of what to do with these characters and convey the same ideas.

 

I don't think you did understand, because my point was that the repetition itself was meaningful. Thanks for the condescension, though.

[DittyDotDot]

I don't think what Mary did to stop the poltergeist would have destroyed her, it probably just untethered her from the old house so she could go to her final reward (hopefully in Heaven). As for John, I would assume that refusing to submit to evil for a subjective century in Hell would earn him some brownie points regarding the final disposition of his afterlife.

 

From the Home transcript...

Missouri: Your Mom’s spirit and the poltergeist’s energy, they cancelled each other out. Your Mom destroyed herself goin’ after the thing.

 

I know it's from S1 and a lot has been changed over the years, but this is why am skeptical Mary is in Heaven. I think she's just gone like any other ghost whose bones they burn. As far as John, sure he might deserve a trip to Heaven, but Bobby's soul got coopted and did a stint in Hell. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn the demons did something similar with John, too. I think the show has purposely left where John and Mary are ambiguous, so I'm just not sure either of them are in Heaven.

 

 

I don't think you did understand, because my point was that the repetition itself was meaningful. Thanks for the condescension, though.

 

Well, my point was there is repetition and then there is repetition. You can still do a call back and make things meaningful without doing a full-on repeat. So yeah, I understood what the show was doing, I just didn't care for how they did it--but not liking it doesn't mean I didn't understand it or understand your point. Wasn't at all trying to be condescending, sorry if I came off that way.

Edited April 4, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

I don't mind the repetition with the talking scenes in this case because I thought it highlighted the changes within and between  Crowley and Dean from Black to now.  What I hate is the repetition through guest actors via parallel or mirrors to what Sam and Dean are going through. That makes me want to poke my eyes with rusty sporks.   But then I am a viewer that really loves all the BM / talky scenes and hate when the guest actors say what IMO should be said by and between the 4 principal characters. 

Edited April 4, 2015 by catrox14

[DittyDotDot]

I hope Rowena (Ruth Connell) leaves for a very long time.  I have nothing against the actress playing her.  They can put as much make up on her as they want, but it is abundantly clear that in real life she is fiffteen years younger than Mark Sheppard (Crowley).  It takes me out of the show every time I see those two together.  Again, the acting is great, the age difference is a turnoff.

 

That's an interesting observation. I never even thought about it since Crowley isn't in his original body and Rowena is a hundreds year old witch and all. Actually, I might have to give the show some kudos on their casting on this one, way to subvert viewers expectations there. I'm warming to Rowena lately now that she's dropped some of the theatrics and such. I think she might be starting to hold that place I once held for Bela.

[SueB]

 

and hate when the guest actors say what IMO should be said by and between the 4 principal characters.

I think it's kinda realistic that Sam and Dean have the ability to talk to each other but there's so much history there that some elements of conversation are always going to be skipped or missed.  They need Cher from Moonstruck stop by every once and a while, slap them on their heads and say "snap outta it!"  (BTW, I love that movie*). Bobby served that purpose ("Do I look like a ditchable prom date?"). Kevin served that purpose ("Guys, my mom is taking home a ghost.") Charlie served that purpose ("Guys, lying is bad.")  

 

Cas could serve that purpose ("Maybe we should call Dean.") but he's too easily swayed by them sometimes.  Crowley provides home truths ("Now who's lying?") but they can't ally with him often enough.

 

So, I like those kind of characters who speak what the audience is thinking.  Again Kevin: "Guys, this is stupid."

 

I've never really noticed the aged difference with Rowena and Crowley because her language is so Mom-like.  My favorite line from her remains: "I will never apologize for being a career woman!"  It was so funny and such a lie.  

 

 

 

*https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wMtRKgzI27c

[catrox14]

I think it's kinda realistic that Sam and Dean have the ability to talk to each other but there's so much history there that some elements of conversation are always going to be skipped or missed. They need Cher from Moonstruck stop by every once and a while, slap them on their heads and say "snap outta it!" (BTW, I love that movie*). Bobby served that purpose ("Do I look like a ditchable prom date?"). Kevin served that purpose ("Guys, my mom is taking home a ghost.") Charlie served that purpose ("Guys, lying is bad.")

Cas could serve that purpose ("Maybe we should call Dean.") but he's too easily swayed by them sometimes. Crowley provides home truths ("Now who's lying?") but they can't ally with him often enough.

So, I like those kind of characters who speak what the audience is thinking. Again Kevin: "Guys, this is stupid.

I'm not talking about recurring supporting characters, like Kevin or Bobby or Jody or Jo or Ellen giving us a perspective on the boys or straight up telling the boys to get their shit together.

I mean episodes like THINMAN or the werewolf sisters wherein the supporting characters or day players are basically avatars for Dean and Sam. IMO it's not clever but anvilcilious and obnoxious. If they write those kinds of episodes to give jared and Jensen time off I'd rather they go with 18 episodes a year and skip the filler with avatars and just write a tighter story. YMMV

Edited April 4, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Ah...got it. I want all 23 and I don't care if some have a little less Sam & Dean ... but not like Bloodlines level less (that barely counts as SPN episode).  

[patty1h]

Let's all take a minute to gaze at the director of this episode:  http://ih.constantcontact.com/fs038/1102418510151/img/292.jpg?a=1105073082196

[Bruinsfan]

From the Home transcript...

Missouri: Your Mom’s spirit and the poltergeist’s energy, they cancelled each other out. Your Mom destroyed herself goin’ after the thing.

 

I know it's from S1 and a lot has been changed over the years, but this is why am skeptical Mary is in Heaven. I think she's just gone like any other ghost whose bones they burn. As far as John, sure he might deserve a trip to Heaven, but Bobby's soul got coopted and did a stint in Hell. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn the demons did something similar with John, too. I think the show has purposely left where John and Mary are ambiguous, so I'm just not sure either of them are in Heaven.

They burned Bobby's remains and the flask his spirit was tethered to, and he went on into the afterlife. I assume all the ghosts they've laid to rest over the years have done likewise. So far as I can recall the only souls we've seen an implied final end to were ones that had degenerated into demons and were then destroyed. (You'd think Lucifer might have had further uses for Lilith and the rest of Hell's roayalty if returning them were an option.)

 

And don't get me started on the Nepotism duo deciding that Crowley can veto a saved soul going to Heaven with a flick of his wrist when his whole raison d'etre as a crossroads demon was cutting deals with people so they'd freely give him power over their souls, or that the Reapers previously shown to be mysterious agents of Death are second-rate angels that moonlight as cab drivers in the world of the living and do under-the-table work for demons rather than their appointed task. If an episode pisses all over the cosmology previously established by the show and cheapens a metaphysical concept, you can bet your bottom dollar their names are in the episode's credits.

Edited April 4, 2015 by Bruinsfan

[catrox14]

Uh....so, I have a weird question. How exactly did Bobby write Sam a note? I mean is it really that Heaven has actual paper or objects that can be given to a human? He obviously gave the note to Cas but if a human has to conjure the spirit in Heaven how exactly is Bobby able to pass a note to Cas to give to Sam? I mean wouldn't that mean that there could be all kinds of crap getting passed from Heaven to Earth? I don't know why that bothers me but it does. LOL ....

Edited April 5, 2015 by catrox14

[7kstar]

Uh....so, I have a weird question. How exactly did Bobby write Sam a note? I mean is it really that Heaven has actual paper or objects that can be given to a human? He obviously gave the note to Cas but if a human has to conjure the spirit in Heaven how exactly is Bobby able to pass a note to Cas to give to Sam? I mean wouldn't that mean that there could be all kinds of crap getting passed from Heaven to Earth? I don't know why that bothers me but it does. LOL ....

Well an answer I can create being a fanasty fan and all, Bobby thinks the note in his head and Cas creates it in paper form.  Or we can have a missing scene where Bobby is screaming get me some paper...I mean all the things in heaven and you can't get me a single sheet of paper.  Idjits!  :)  Who knows but if it can help you sleep at night...take it.  :)

 

From the Home transcript...

Missouri: Your Mom’s spirit and the poltergeist’s energy, they cancelled each other out. Your Mom destroyed herself goin’ after the thing.

 

I know it's from S1 and a lot has been changed over the years, but this is why am skeptical Mary is in Heaven. I think she's just gone like any other ghost whose bones they burn. As far as John, sure he might deserve a trip to Heaven, but Bobby's soul got coopted and did a stint in Hell. I wouldn't be too surprised to learn the demons did something similar with John, too. I think the show has purposely left where John and Mary are ambiguous, so I'm just not sure either of them are in Heaven.

 

I would just like the show to answer this.  I get that it is ambiguous, but I would like to know what happened to them before the show ends.  JMV.  I don't think they are in heaven, because we've been told we can't find them...of course with as much as they love to re-write cannon that doesn't mean anything so this is plot hole that would be nice to see it filled.

[catrox14]

LOL 7kstar. I'll go with your option A. 

[DittyDotDot]

Uh....so, I have a weird question. How exactly did Bobby write Sam a note? I mean is it really that Heaven has actual paper or objects that can be given to a human? He obviously gave the note to Cas but if a human has to conjure the spirit in Heaven how exactly is Bobby able to pass a note to Cas to give to Sam? I mean wouldn't that mean that there could be all kinds of crap getting passed from Heaven to Earth? I don't know why that bothers me but it does. LOL ....

 

I wondered this too. And being a paper maker myself, I found it interesting the papyrus-type paper he did write it on. Anyway, I decided Cass had a piece of paper and pen stowed away in his trench coat. Hey, Dean pulls all kinds of random crap out of his jacket pockets, why can't Cass? ;)

[mertensia]

It's probably angel paper. Made of kitty purrs or something.

[SueB]

Kitty purrs...kinda brilliant.

[catrox14]

Hee! Tippi on TV's recap wondered about paper in Heaven too! I am redeemed!

[Zanne]

I don't think [John and Mary] are in heaven, because we've been told we can't find them...

 

They've been rewarded for their sacrifice by being reborn. They're approximately ten years old by now (show timeline is so screwed, I can't remember how much time is supposed to have passed), so they are on their way to middle school soon. They'll be married again by the time this show finally ends.

[rue721]

Yesterday, I had this episode on while I was warming up to go on my run. The episode was so good and I was having so much fun watching it, that I did a bunch more planks than usual and added an extra dumbell exercise, just to keep watching. Today I'm so sore I can hardly move.

 

Thanks, SPN?

Edited April 6, 2015 by rue721

[rue721]

How come the souls in that corridor in Heaven were all (surly) Bobby Singers?

[DittyDotDot]

I think it was an alphabetical thing. Why the angels were using the English language to organize Heaven when Heaven existed long before any language...you got me there. Maybe it wasn't alphabetical at all though and they just grouped same-names together, I don't know for sure.

 

I would've laughed my ass off if one of the Bobby Singers was an accommodating rule-follower and not at all surly, though!

Edited April 6, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[AwesomO4000]

I think it was an alphabetical thing. Why the angels were using the English language to organize Heaven when Heaven existed long before any language...you got me there. Maybe it wasn't alphabetical at all though and they just grouped same-names together, I don't know for sure.

 

I would've laughed my ass off if one of the Bobby Singers was an accommodating rule-follower and not at all surly, though!

 

That's gotta be Naomi. I can see her thinking / saying - "we even put their names in their own language. They should be very grateful we organized them so thoughtfully." Just because the rooms were more like prison cells than the previous heaven wouldn't even occur to her, because look little name plates in their own language how respectful and considerate of their ways of us. At least that is my impression of Naomi - so creepy with the everything in order and white and sterile and what's "good" for everybody. She gave me the creeps.

[DittyDotDot]

See, I'm not sure it was Naomi. The hallway to the cell was very Naomi-esc, but the inside was in-line with what we previously saw. Everyone's heaven was different, to Sam and Dean, their heaven was a road, but to Bobby, his heaven was his house. I imagine those cells are like the holodeck where one can walk for miles, but really are just walking in circles. So, one's heaven is whatever they make it be.

 

My issue with this new heaven wasn't the individual cells, I think that actually lines up with what we were shown previously, I just wasn't too fond of the idea there was something in each cell that allowed folks to escape their heaven so easily...an out-of-place thread one just yanks on...really? Why'd Ash need his super-computer to figure that out?

 

So, maybe Naomi redecorated, but I'm not so sure about that.

Edited April 6, 2015 by DittyDotDot

[catrox14]

Maybe Naomi had to redecorate because they figured out what Ash did.  Or gods forbid.  Compelled Ash to rewrite  Heaven's protocol or .....you know....else. :(

[rue721]

The poor souls with made-up, funky names must just get a tiny, lonely broom closet instead of a gigantic, brightly lit hallway full of same-names like the Bobby Singers had!

 

Bobby's heaven was pretty blah. In real life it's nice and relaxing to putter around and read random trashy lit and all, but for eternity? To never even be able to hang out with friends or anything? I didn't mind the change to Heaven, except that by making it simpler (with the corridor that each person's heaven opens out into, and the angel guards, etc) it became sort of more confusing/inexplicable. Oh well. I hope that Bobby gets sent to some kind of "Heaven's version of Hell/prison-for-human-souls" so that we get to see what that place is like.

 

Also, speaking of the surly Bobby Singers who all somehow made it to Heaven -- there was also that demon who said that even if you're damned, you can still be a conscientious worker. I wonder what makes a person damned (or saved) in the SPN-verse?

[AwesomO4000]

Oh well. I hope that Bobby gets sent to some kind of "Heaven's version of Hell/prison-for-human-souls" so that we get to see what that place is like.

 

It's like heaven, except the beer is flat and the strippers have venereal diseases.. Oh wait, sorry - wrong hell vs heaven comparison. (Flying Spaghetti Monster reference.)

 

Also, speaking of the surly Bobby Singers who all somehow made it to Heaven -- there was also that demon who said that even if you're damned, you can still be a conscientious worker. I wonder what makes a person damned (or saved) in the SPN-verse?

 

So far all I'm sure of is that making a deal, including a deal to become a witch, will get you damned and that being "devout" will let you get away with some stuff and potentially still get into heaven. All the rest is a bit fuzzy as to who goes where.

Edited April 7, 2015 by AwesomO4000

[DittyDotDot]

Bobby's heaven was pretty blah. In real life it's nice and relaxing to putter around and read random trashy lit and all, but for eternity? To never even be able to hang out with friends or anything? I didn't mind the change to Heaven, except that by making it simpler (with the corridor that each person's heaven opens out into, and the angel guards, etc) it became sort of more confusing/inexplicable.

 

Yeah, that's the sad part of heaven, it's lonely. Hopefully Bobby wasn't always sitting around his house reading by himself, maybe sometimes he conjured up a memory of Sam and Dean and had a poker game or Rufus to have a drink with. Still not the real thing, but at least it's better than nothing, I guess. Makes me think Bobby was smart by trying to slip his reaper and stay as a ghost.

 

Maybe Ash is also now in Heaven's lockup for running amuck and causing problems...at least Bobby might have a familiar face to talk to now.

[mertensia]

Maybe Ash created all the escape hatches.

[rue721]

Have to concur that this was a good episode for Cas. I liked how snippy he was.

 

Like when he was acting all aggravated and weird toward the atheist psychic and Sam gave him a look, and he snarled, "I'm helping!" I like exhausted!Cas. Or exasperated!Cas. Or had-it-up-to-here!Cas. That's my favorite sort of Cas.

 

There was something about this episode that I thought of on the bus this morning and wanted to discuss, and I'm trying for the life of me to remember but...I'm sure there will be an ETA with that fascinating morsel in just a bit. I know you're panting in anticipation, but patience, please.

[catrox14]

So, I was watching "Inside Man" again, which rivals "Riechenbach" for my favorite episode of s10 so far

Dean said "A wise man once told me family don't end IN blood but it doesn't start there either" He didn't say "Family don't end WITH blood ". This has to be purposeful. There is no way even this regime would screw up one of most iconic lines of dialogue in the show and there is no way Jensen would screw up that line and no way does editing let that fly if Jensen did flub the line.

I think the line is foreshadowing a blood bath of an ending. That family will kill family. MEEP.

What do you all think?

Edited April 8, 2015 by catrox14

[SueB]

Hello from sunny Egypt.  Just enjoying my barge ride on the river De-Nile.

[SueB]

Listening to the WoL Podcast, they brought out an interesting point regarding this episode.  They think Dean KNOWS he's going to turn demon so the whole death analogy is the "death of Dean's personality". Consistent with Jensen comment that just because his vessel might live, "Dean" may not.  That is, however, inconsistent with the first time he was a demon because he seemed at least Dean-adjacent to me.  Maybe he's thinking if Dean goes full-on Demon, like Cain-class Demon with the super skillz set.  

[catrox14]

Damn you, Sue. I teared up reading that....I haven't listened to the Inside Man podcast yet......

[SueB]

Sorry?

[rue721]

I think the "inside man" in the title really was the demon inside of Dean. Rowena going on about Dean being a "hero" and this talk from JA about the vessel living on even while the soul inside the vessel dies or vanishes all makes me think that Dean as a human being/"hero" is going to die even while his body lives on. And that makes me think of this song again:

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=P1QUZzeZoPQ

[Reishe]

 They can put as much make up on her as they want, but it is abundantly clear that in real life she is fiffteen years younger than Mark Sheppard (Crowley).  It takes me out of the show every time I see those two together.  Again, the acting is great, the age difference is a turnoff.

 

 

That's an interesting observation. I never even thought about it since Crowley isn't in his original body and Rowena is a hundreds year old witch and all. Actually, I might have to give the show some kudos on their casting on this one, way to subvert viewers expectations there.

Much as I hate every Rowena scene, the age thing never bothered me. Both because of the fact that she's clearly chosen a magical loophole out of the aging process and he's in a totally different body and also looking spry for his calendar-age. But the fact that she's on the young side for a mum brings with it all kinds of associations of "bad mother" we've seen on tv and movies--the too-young mother who wants to have all the fun she had before the responsibilities of parenthood, and who is close enough in age to her child that she doesn't have a parent-child relationship but more of a "buddy" relationship, which is trouble for both of them b/c it's so out of place. For me, reflecting that kind of toxic relationship works here.

[mertensia]

Yeah Crowley isn't in his original body and we know from episodes like Shut Up, Dr Phil that witches don't age so it works for me.

[Bruinsfan]

On the who goes where front, Ash said something about a hundred billion souls in Heaven, which is in the ballpark of scientists' estimates of the total number of Homo Sapiens Sapiens that have ever lived. Whereas the "now being served" sign in Crowley's renovated Hell implied that there are at least 6.6 billion souls there. My impression is that most everyone ends up going to Heaven eventually unless they're evil to the core or sell their souls to demons.

[GirlyGeek]

This is such a great episode, even on rewatch. And knowing that the next two that have currently aired are just as good if not better is making me so happy for this season.

Cass' annoyance level is so great, the whole episode. He is so done playing nice and he wants to kill MetaTron like... yesterday, I just love this version of Cass.

It was nice to see them have a plan with MetaTron, too. The fact that they weren't just dragging him down from heavens jail so they could talk ad naseum and play let's make a deal was a nice change of pace. They stole his grace and had no problem shooting him.

Dean with black eyes will never not damage my calm. It's unsettling.

I loved that, apparently, Hell's switchboard is run by Microsoft computers/surface tablet. Makes a lot of sense since Mac is clearly a gift from God and Microsoft is evil. ;). And Rowena in that scene, loving being called Queen Mother... She does like the praise and power.

I know someone mentioned this way up thread, but Sam was rockin the Single Man Tear, and I don't think we've seen that from Sam before (except in the Pilot, actually). When Sam cries (and it's really not all that often) it's usually the big ugly crying. It was a nice touch. Actually Jareds choices this whole season have been really good. The scared little boy looks are really working, IMO.

[catrox14]

Just re-watching this episode off the TNT marathon on Sunday. 

 

Man this is such a great episode all around.

 

It really holds up on re-watch. I think ti works a stand alone too because even without necessarily knowing  all the background of why Rowena is going after Dean, it was kind of a hook to figure out WHY she did that.

 

I just want to watch an entire episode of Dean hustling pool.  I mean seriously that was gold.  If only he had done the thing with his elbows as he racks but then the other guy was racking so I guess that's why not.  And the shift from fake drunk to deadly conman was so brilliant.

 

And the moment Dean eyes flashed black remains freaky as hell. Still can't believe the fucking promo monkeys at the CW ruined that moment. Assholes.

 

Lee Majoub was a fantastic Hannah.

 

The direction was basically perfect IMO.  Kudos to Rashaad Ernesto Green.

 

;;heart eyes;; at the whole episode

[RulerofallIsurvey]

Randomly randomness:

• I knew the French movie thing was a cover by Sam, but why did he have say cockroach?  ::shudder::  I despise cockroaches.  
• Neat-o psychic guy.  I liked him.  He'd be cool to have back.
• Never thought we'd see Bobby again, so that was kind of nice.
• I'm with who ever on another thread mentioned their vehement loathing of the idea of separate, isolationist, heavens.  Amen to that.  Bobby was sitting around drinking whiskey and reading for eternity?  I'd be bored out of my skull.  Unless it was a kind of reverse Ground-Hog day.  As in, you didn't remember the previous day, so it was always new each "day"?  I don't know.  Still doesn't seem kosher to me.  Really liked that Bobby was opening all the doors and letting people out.  I thought of that as soon as he left his own 'cell' and wondered why he didn't immediately start - you know, just to see what was behind each door if nothing else.  Guess I'm dangerously curious like that.  :)  Apparently all the escapees went back to their own private heavens easily enough in the end.   That's a shame.  There's more human souls than angels, looks like.  They could easily revolt.  Take over.  That'd be a good episode.  :)
• Was kind of hoping we'd see Ash in the crowd.  
• So when Dean and Sam died and went to Heaven, and had to escape, they could.  So why didn't Bobby come back with Cas and boogertron?  No vessel?  But then that wasn't a problem for Sam and Dean...  I'm sure I'm forgetting something relevant, but right now I just don't get it.
• NOT happy to have boogertron back again.  Yay for Cas taking his grace and making him human though.   And for Sam shooting him in the leg.  Interestingly:

Spoiler

That's the same place Sam got shot by Lady McBitchmilday at the end of S11, right?

• Yay for Crowley finally wising up about Roweena.  Geesh, though - really it took a chat with Dean for him to see the light?  Not that I don't like the fact that he sat down and had a chat with Dean instead going in guns blazing.  I really do.  That was cool.
• I guess Dean make Roweena save the douchebag frat boys?  I didn't think there was a way to save them from that spell.  
• Damn, those nachos looked good.
• I'm confused about what Roweena was trying to do with the body symbols other than kill Dean.  How was it supposed to work?  Did I miss something?  I don't think it was explained too well.  
• Sam's hair looked pretty nice this ep.  Also: barefoot Sam is a bonus!  Don't know why he didn't immediately wake Dean up from the dream though.  
• And finally: 42!!!

[DittyDotDot]

31 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

So when Dean and Sam died and went to Heaven, and had to escape, they could.  So why didn't Bobby come back with Cas and boogertron?  No vessel?  But then that wasn't a problem for Sam and Dean...  I'm sure I'm forgetting something relevant, but right now I just don't get it.

Sam and Dean were returned to their bodies that were still laying in that hotel room. With Bobby, they gave him a hunter's funeral, so there is no body to return him to. They made a point of it back when Sam "saved" Bobby from Hell and Bobby wanted to go back to the land of the living as a way to explain why Bobby couldn't come back to the land of the living.

However, the angels did resurrect Adam's body from ashes back in S5, but I think it took a bunch of them and I'm thinking none of them are powerful enough anymore, even if Cass could get a bunch of them to do it. 

31 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I'm with who ever on another thread mentioned their vehement loathing of the idea of separate, isolationist, heavens.  Amen to that.  Bobby was sitting around drinking whiskey and reading for eternity?  I'd be bored out of my skull.  

I think, Heaven is what you make of it. Bobby was reading right then, but, based on Sam and Dean's running all over the place back in Dark Side of the Moon, his cell is basically like a holodeck. He can do whatever he wanted and recreate anyone he wanted to share his afterlife with. It's Memorex and a lie, IMO, but it is better than the basement I guess? Heaven is all sorts of screwy, though.

31 minutes ago, RulerofallIsurvey said:

I'm confused about what Roweena was trying to do with the body symbols other than kill Dean.  How was it supposed to work?  Did I miss something?  I don't think it was explained too well.  

Not that I think it was explained all that well either, but I believe it was a spell. And yes, she was trying to kill him, but it didn't work because he's protected by the Mark of Cain. TBH, I just roll with whatever Rowena does. There's really no logic to much of what she does with regards to spellwork. IMO, she's a walkin' and talkin' dues ex machina, but I've grown to love her anyway. 

Edited September 26, 2016 by DittyDotDot

[DittyDotDot]

While watching the beginning and end of this episode, I had this song running through my mind:

Sam, you are a terrible liar...stop it! Plus, put on your big boy pants and man up. So stupid.

Otherwise, this is a delightful episode in the midst of a few clunkers. I might watch this one again just for kicks! ;)

[bettername2come]

Bobby! Bobby's back! And he looks so comfy in heaven with his shoes off and his Tori Spelling book.

I love the way Sam took off when he heard Dean screaming. And not just because he looks good in his sleep clothes. I also love his terrible lie about a French cockroach mime movie. Did Cas get a haircut? I like it. I always like Dean playing pool. And being friendly with the bartender. Cas is so cute with the "I'm helping" when he offers to break down the door. I like Oliver Price. I love the reverence with which Sam sets Bobby's cap on the table. "The Bobbies are surly!" Well, they're Bobby Singers, that's to be expected. 42! I love that Bobby doesn't believe Cas's bullshit. Hey, he called Cas an idjit. Was that the first time? "Don't worry. Dean's not involved. You're gonna be my punching bag." "What's the phrase? Blow your frickin' brains out." This is a good episode for Cas. I really do love the playground gateway to heaven. Oh, Bobby. I love how he loves the boys. Nice moment of the angels walking in while he looks at the picture of the three of them with the voiceover telling Sam he's a good man and to kick it in the ass. I'm not tearing up. Nope. Not at all. 
 

[Katy M]

I'm still trying to figure out exactly when Bobby found time to write that letter. 

12 hours ago, bettername2come said:

I also love his terrible lie about a French cockroach mime movie.

Completely shocking that Dean didn't race him to the car for that movie.  Although it would have been funny as all get out if he had said, "yeah, I've been meaning to expand my horizon to more nerdy, weird stuff.  Count me in."