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S10.E17: Inside Man


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I loved Dean deciding that he needed to get out and just have a quiet drink and meal at a bar- one he's apparently a regular at. Also that he decided to have some fun by hustling the slumming guys.

Since when is breaking Metatron out of Heaven's jail ever a good thing?

That little pitchfork in Crowley's drink was just too cute.

Loved Dean's "never saw I'd live this long" comment because yeah; he has never had any illusions about the lifespan of a hunter.

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So, since they have figured out how to break a soul out of Heaven,

 

 They didn't break a soul out of Heaven.  Bobby stayed in Heaven, just got out of his cell.  The only being they broke out of Heaven is Metatron. 

 

Thinking of John and Mary though, it was interesting that Sam thought of Bobby to contact via the psychic radio to help with the plan.  Not as strong an emotional connection for Sam perhaps?  Or I wonder if writer's figured the majority of viewers wouldn't have the same connection to John or Mary?

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The psychic needed something that the person owned. Sam had Bobby's hat (why? shouldn't everything be burned to prevent him from coming back?) and do they even have anything that belonged to John or Mary?

I don't think the Impala counts since it's been in Dean's possession for so long.

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The psychic needed something that the person owned. Sam had Bobby's hat (why? shouldn't everything be burned to prevent him from coming back?) and do they even have anything that belonged to John or Mary?

I don't think the Impala counts since it's been in Dean's possession for so long.

John's journal might count.  Even though the boys have had it for years, I think it being in his handwriting would overlay that.

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John's journal might count.

Well, there is the problem of getting JDM for an episode. Looking at his IMDB page, he's pretty busy.

 

Also, it's probably easier to catch up Bobby on what happened than John. Just explaining that there are angels would take a while.

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(edited)

Got my rewatch in.  It really was a good episode, I never would have known it was a freshman director. 

 

This was all mytharc plot.  There wasn't much need for parallels because everything was so direct.  So, I'll just put down the "little things" I loved/observed:

- Did you notice how Rowena's face was slow-mo in the "previouslies".  I think it was kindof implying how Crowley was falling under her spell. Not a literal spell, but her general "mother" act.

- I think Sam may have switched rooms.  This had more space and was farther away from Dean's than before. Plus it looked more lived in.

- Hey, they're sleeping under the covers again.  Work with me. They were on top of the covers in S9. And I swear it is directly correlated to how much this is their "home".  I'm sticking with this theory, feel free to laugh at me.

- Jared is really rocking the "scared 12 yr old" face these days. It works.

- Speaking of "face", I loved Dean's face when he told Sam to make good choices.  I imagined his inner monologue was along the lines of "French movie about cockroach mimes is NOT a good choice." I think Dean didn't read Kafka.

- I loved LOVED the Crowley/naked mother moment.  He so wants a family and so had completely internalized the mother/son thing at this point.  Which I think is intentional, given the end of the episode. Rowena, OTOH, has not. She's all about the power.  Did you notice her happy face when the minion called her "The Queen Mother?" 

- "Hannah" immediately got misty-eyed when seeing Cas.  Nicely done actor-who-got-has-a-SAG-card.

- I really liked the psychic.  That actor did a great job of creating a character that seemed 3D.  I could imagine his whole backstory.  The excellent work by the props department to create such a stuffed-full-of-junk house helped as well. "You can't be, I'm an atheist." It was the delivery that made it funny. But if it's any comfort, Angels are dicks.

- "The Bobbys are surly." Bless you Andrew Dabb.

- Did anyone else notice how agitated Cas is this entire episode?  I think he REALLY wants to kill Metatron.  Random spec: if Cas gets some grace back, what pocket is he going to keep it in?  I mean...he's got the stolen grace from angry angel lady, Metatrons, and now he's looking for his own.

- I really enjoyed the slow-mo jump and Cas sliding into "home".  And the Dean fighting sequence was great.  Especially Dean regaining control . Again, good job director.

- BUT WHAT'S UP WITH THE BLACK EYES?!?  I'd be drinking Holy Water just in case.  I just don't know what that means. Also, was there symbology in washing his face and looking in the mirror? He did that a lot in S9 ...same reason?? 

- Best scene for me:  The Crowley/Dean therapy session.  Who has Crowley's back??? Literally no-one.  Except MAYBE Dean.  Demons fear him, they aren't truly loyal. And Dean wouldn't claim to have his back -- although he did just by giving him good advice.  

- Which leads me to Dean's mellowness.  Jerry Wanek tweeted a photo of an unused set:

btnG9jl.jpg

 

 

it's a pot shop.  Now pot is not legal in Kansas but it is in Colorado.  I could see Dean driving there. Plus Dean was physically in pain and is currently having really bad nightmares.  I just wonder if that was their plan and so that's why Dean seemed so mellow at times.  OTOH, it was cut. So, maybe they don't want to go down that path.  IDK.  Just an odd observation.  It could have been for someone else but Dean seems most likely.  

- Speaking of sets, I'm 100% convinced that Naomi did the redecorating and she was a SciFi fan. The rooms were straight out of Star Wars or 2001: A Space Odyssey, the red alert from Star Trek The Original Series, the door signs look ST: The Next Generation, and the Exit Door #42 (from Hitch Hikers Guide to the Galaxy).  So...where was the inside BSG joke for Amanda Tapping??

- Finally, yes I loved everything Bobby.  Bobby was Bobby and not a figment of Sam's imagination.  If Naomi was around, I'd think he'd be reprogrammed. But I imagine all the angels are against that kind of thing now.  So...perhaps a little interrogation and some time in a cell. IDK. I did a fist pump at his "Well that's a page right out of the Winchester playbook."  You tell 'em Bobby.  

- And one more thing: Sam had a Single Man Tear at the end.  Has he done that before?  

 

Sorry for lengthy tome.  I really liked this ep. 

Edited by SueB
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Was the angel Hannah or Anna?  I know Hannah liked Cas way better, but I thought she had been killed off for real and Crowley had given her grace to Cas?  Also, smart to use a male vessel to sneak in a little hoyay.  I don't think Sam intended to shoot Dean as another poster upthread implied.  When Dean was screaming I assumed Sam would think there was danger in the bunker.  Why didn't Sam wake Dean?  Way go go little brother!  Let him suffer so you can make your snarky remark in the morning.

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Well, there is the problem of getting JDM for an episode. Looking at his IMDB page, he's pretty busy.

 

Also, it's probably easier to catch up Bobby on what happened than John. Just explaining that there are angels would take a while.

Good point about catching up.  That could take *days*!

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The angel was Hannah. She left her vessel to go back to Heaven. The angel that Crowley killed was one of the ones they tried to force back to Heaven.

 

When was Sam snarky about Dean in the morning? He asked him how he slept and Dean was all: like a drunk baby.

 

Sam ran in with gun drawn, lowered it and watched until Dean calmed down. In season 1, Dean didn't always wake up Sam when he had nightmares about Jess on the ceiling. I don't think they do that sort of thing. Not manly or macho enough.

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I always thought waking the boys is a dangerous proposition at the best of times, in the middle of a nightmare?  Yeah, no thanks! They'd likely come up swinging and I wouldn't want a punch in the face for my efforts. TYVM.

 

Yeah, it'd be like waking up Wolverine from a nightmare.  You're likely to get a rib-full of blades....

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So...where was the inside BSG joke for Amanda Tapping??

 

 

There were a few BSG alum in SPN but Amanda Tapping is not a BSG alum. She was the co-lead in Stargate franchise. And played Helen MAGNUS in Sanctuar.  I lament that she was never in BSG.

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The psychic needed something that the person owned. Sam had Bobby's hat (why? shouldn't everything be burned to prevent him from coming back?) and do they even have anything that belonged to John or Mary?

I don't think the Impala counts since it's been in Dean's possession for so long.

 

They also have the wedding ring. Dean used to wear it -- not sure if he still does?

 

Also, would THEY count as belonging to John and Mary? That ghost last season was attached to her kid, and another ghost a while back was attached to her donated kidney, so I wonder if Sam or Dean would work as something that "belongs" to John and/or Mary?

 

Well, there is the problem of getting JDM for an episode. Looking at his IMDB page, he's pretty busy.

 

Also, it's probably easier to catch up Bobby on what happened than John. Just explaining that there are angels would take a while.

 

Good point on both counts. Plus, Sam hasn't worked with his dad since he was a kid (barring the 1-2 hunts in S1) and has never worked with Mary. So I doubt that he'd call on them to do "hunting-adjacent" work for him. Plus, they don't know about angels, or how heaven works, or maybe even that they're in heaven. And they also don't know about Dean being in "trouble" right now. Can you imagine giving an explanation about THAT to your/his dead mother, lol.

 

- Speaking of "face", I loved Dean's face when he told Sam to make good choices.  I imagined his inner monologue was along the lines of "French movie about cockroach mimes is NOT a good choice." I think Dean didn't read Kafka.

 

It's such a small thing, but that movie idea just cracks me up. I honestly would love to see a movie about a cockroach that's "passing" as a human mime.

 

If that movie had been real within the episode, guessing the purpose of the pot dispensery scene would have been easy.

 

I also love that Dean apparently believes that Sam would go see a movie like that.

 

I don't think Sam intended to shoot Dean as another poster upthread implied.  When Dean was screaming I assumed Sam would think there was danger in the bunker.  Why didn't Sam wake Dean?  Way go go little brother!  Let him suffer so you can make your snarky remark in the morning.

 

I agree that Sam heard yelling/commotion coming from Dean's room and was worried that something had gotten into the bunker or was attacking him.

 

My ex used to have bad nightmares like that, and I wouldn't wake him because it was too dangerous to. It was very difficult to get him to wake up while he was dreaming anyway, and since he was already freaking out and moving around from the nightmares, if you touched him while he was in the middle of tossing and turning from one like that, he was liable to get violent/attack (without waking up). And he also slept near weapons, so I was honestly just afraid of him freaking out while not fully awake/conscious/in his right mind, because I didn't want him to groggily go for a weapon. LOL thinking about it, maybe this episode was a more realistic portrayal of PTSD than the The Things They Carried :P

 

Anyway, when Sam asked how Dean slept, I think he was just trying to see whether Dean wanted to talk about it, I don't think he was trying to be snarky. YMMV.

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I agree that Sam heard yelling/commotion coming from Dean's room and was worried that something had gotten into the bunker or was attacking him.

 

My ex used to have bad nightmares like that, and I wouldn't wake him because it was too dangerous to. It was very difficult to get him to wake up while he was dreaming anyway, and since he was already freaking out and moving around from the nightmares, if you touched him while he was in the middle of tossing and turning from one like that, he was liable to get violent/attack (without waking up). And he also slept near weapons, so I was honestly just afraid of him freaking out while not fully awake/conscious/in his right mind, because I didn't want him to groggily go for a weapon. LOL thinking about it, maybe this episode was a more realistic portrayal of PTSD than the The Things They Carried :P

 

Anyway, when Sam asked how Dean slept, I think he was just trying to see whether Dean wanted to talk about it, I don't think he was trying to be snarky. YMMV.

 

I agree.  Do NOT wake up someone who may be having a PTSD-induced nightmare.  It takes time for them to come out of that fog and you may get seriously hurt (accidentally, of course) in the process.

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he was liable to get violent/attack (without waking up). And he also slept near weapons, so I was honestly just afraid of him freaking out while not fully awake/conscious/in his right mind, because I didn't want him to groggily go for a weapon. LOL thinking about it, maybe this episode was a more realistic portrayal of PTSD than the The Things They Carried :P

 

Anyway, when Sam asked how Dean slept, I think he was just trying to see whether Dean wanted to talk about it, I don't think he was trying to be snarky. YMMV.

OK, good point about the danger of waking someone up who sleeps with a gun nearby if not under his pillow.

 

I had wondered what that ring was that Dean used to wear but I never twigged that it was a wedding ring.  Did it belong to his mother?

Edited by Goldmoon
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- BUT WHAT'S UP WITH THE BLACK EYES?!?  I'd be drinking Holy Water just in case.  I just don't know what that means. Also, was there symbology in washing his face and looking in the mirror? He did that a lot in S9 ...same reason?? 

 

I can't remember...have we seen if holy water works on Demon!Dean or Cain?  I'm just thinking way back to when Yellow Eyes was possessing John and when Sam sprinkled him with holy water it didn't do anything.  Yellow Eyes said something like, "Did you think that would work on something like me?"  I would imagine holy water wouldn't work on a Knight of Hell either but that hinges on the writers actually sticking to their old story lines which they're not particularly good at.  

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Yeah, I don't think Sam was intending to kill Dean. It's just their normal habits.  The bunker wasn't warded enough to keep out Gadreel so I think it's high alert. I did love that Sam was barefoot though.

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(edited)

I had wondered what that ring was that Dean used to wear but I never twigged that it was a wedding ring.  Did it belong to his mother?

 

I never thought it was a wedding ring but I like that idea.  Although, it would probably be John's since it was pretty thick and big enough to fit Dean's manly finger.

 

ETA:  Thanks, Demented Daisy--I remember that now.  So if it didn't work on Yellow Eyes it probably shouldn't have worked on Demon!Dean, but whatever you say, Writers.

Edited by cassandle
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There were a few BSG alum in SPN but Amanda Tapping is not a BSG alum. She was the co-lead in Stargate franchise. And played Helen MAGNUS in Sanctuar.  I lament that she was never in BSG.

My sincere apologies to BOTH the BSG and Stargate fandom.  How could I have mixed them up???

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(edited)

I can't remember...have we seen if holy water works on Demon!Dean or Cain?  I'm just thinking way back to when Yellow Eyes was possessing John and when Sam sprinkled him with holy water it didn't do anything.  Yellow Eyes said something like, "Did you think that would work on something like me?"  I would imagine holy water wouldn't work on a Knight of Hell either but that hinges on the writers actually sticking to their old story lines which they're not particularly good at.  

 

Holy water worked on Dean because Sam splashed him with it in Reichenbach to capture him. However, during the de-demoning process Dean said he got out of the cuffs and the Devil's trap because he was just 'human' enough to escape them. So at this point if he's still partly demon IMO the Holy Water wouldn't show anything because it's been in remission.  

 

I think those were demon!Dean's actual black eyes peeking through. SQUEEEE.  

 

It was played really cleverly by Jensen that it could be that Dean was shocked either because he didn't think it was there anymore or that if Dean did know that he is losing control of him again.

My sincere apologies to BOTH the BSG and Stargate fandom.  How could I have mixed them up???

 

LOL sorry my inner BSG geek was triggered. I'm going with it being a projection on your part that you really wanted Tapping to have been in BSG which I share your enthusiasm.

ETA: Okay, now I know you all think I'm nuts...and I didn't say much along the way, but I've been rewatching much of s10 because I'm trying to prove my #demon!Deanlurks theory....and I swear to gods there are moments throughout and just like tonight that I think some of Dean's behavior were demon!Dean-adjacent.  I'll take further thoughts to Dean thread later on, but I swear I've seen it.

Edited by catrox14
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ETA: Okay, now I know you all think I'm nuts...and I didn't say much along the way, but I've been rewatching much of s10 because I'm trying to prove my #demon!Deanlurks theory....and I swear to gods there are moments throughout and just like tonight that I think some of Dean's behavior were demon!Dean-adjacent.  I'll take further thoughts to Dean thread later on, but I swear I've seen it.

 

I think that some of his behavior at the bar was meant to be pretty demon!Dean-adjacent. Practically all he did as a demon was hang out in bars and act kind of obnoxious, and then after he did that in this episode, he started freaking out in the bathroom. Then when Rowena tried to get him to kill those boys, he got flashbacks of when he killed and beat people as a demon.

 

That flashback sequence and him throwing away the stick were really good, imo. Hat tip to the director.

 

I'm not really understanding the progression/arc from Dean losing control and slaughtering those guys in The Things They Left Behind to him having so much control now (and in the same episode when he's having nightmares about it, too)?

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I think it's because the slaughter sated the bloodlust.  He killed what 5 people?  So maybe that was enough to sate the MoC to keep demon!Dean at bay but now some time has passed and he hasn't killed anyone else that I can think of since then, that's it's starting to poke at him.  So he either has to kill another human to keep the demon at bay like Crowley said or demon!Dean comes out . 

 

I also wonder if him killing Cain triggers the demon to come out and play because with Cain dead Dean is theoretically the most powerful creature on Earth right now. 

Edited by catrox14
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I think one of my favorite things with Cas right now is that he's starting to act like the old skool BAMF Cas from s4 and s5. He's not fucking around anymore. I love that Cas the best.

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I also wonder if him killing Cain triggers the demon to come out and play because with Cain dead Dean is theoretically the most powerful creature on Earth right now.

The way I see it, he IS Cain, or rather Cain-in-waiting until he comes out to play. Once he killed Cain, that's what he became.

 

I don't know if that makes sense but it does in my head. However, I still don't know what Dean is planning to do once that happens. Run really far away? Will he be able to flicker in and out of existence like Cain could? In that case, Sam and Cas, and possibly Crowley have no chance in hell against him.

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Heaven sucks. Even so, I would think Bobby's heaven would be happy days with his wife (even if she were simulation). Not drinking alone in a dumpy room. I hope he does lead a revolt. Freedom for the souls!

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Heaven sucks. Even so, I would think Bobby's heaven would be happy days with his wife (even if she were simulation). Not drinking alone in a dumpy room. I hope he does lead a revolt. Freedom for the souls!

 

 

Maybe Ash has given him the backdoor to go around to other Heavens like he did Dean and Sam.  I'm not sure his wife would even be in Heaven since she died a monster wouldn't she be in Purgatory?

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(edited)

Maybe Ash has given him the backdoor to go around to other Heavens like he did Dean and Sam.  I'm not sure his wife would even be in Heaven since she died a monster wouldn't she be in Purgatory?

 

They could've had a simulation, like young Sam in Dean's firework memory, but yeah this heaven seems a reboot. I can't tell if that was a Bobby memory, or if the "new" heaven is that instead of memories, the souls think they are living and/or continuing on in a peaceful different but somewhat changing existence. Bobby would be more self-aware than the average person would. I think he said that he was "catching up" on some reading ("classics" he said), but the question would be was his Tori Spelling magazine one from the past or a "new" one simulated by heaven for the purpose? I'd have to try to take a closer look for clues.

 

But I think Karen was possessed by a demon? In which case she likely would've died like a regular person, so it might be possible she'd be in heaven. Sadly though, they didn't take advantage of the past storyline with Ash. In my head canon, his little shenanigans  likely would be frowned upon in the new heaven, and he may not still be in his Roadhouse heaven, but be on the run. I would enjoy a short spinoff of Bobby and Ash: Renegade Souls, and we could visit some of the other now deceased SPN people they could pick up to join their rebellion: Jo, Ellen, Pastor Jim, Pamela, Kevin, the woman hunter from "Of Grave Importance," crazy "Don't play with my Jesus" hunter (he was devout)... so many possibilities.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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Maybe this is what Bobby chose? Too many bad memories about his wife, having to kill her twice. Maybe for him, this is peace, or rather, as he put it, content.

 

Maybe Karen is behind another door with a fake Bobby.

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I pretty much thought that Naomi had redecorated Heaven. Or rather Carver in season 8.

That's my assumption as well. The spotlessly-clean 70s future look was her kind of thing.

 

Heaven sucks. Even so, I would think Bobby's heaven would be happy days with his wife (even if she were simulation). Not drinking alone in a dumpy room. I hope he does lead a revolt. Freedom for the souls!

That was my thought too. Even if it's a Memorex version rather than the real Karen, you'd think a beloved dead wife would figure pretty prominently in Bobby's idea of Heaven.

 

As for Karen having been a monster when last we saw her, she was a zombie-ish thing raised from the grave by Death rather than one of Mother-of-All's progeny. I'd imagine her soul went back to Heaven where it belonged when she was put down, if it was ever truly present within the reanimated version of her to start with.

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Eh, the Bobby scenes were an unwelcome reminder how they destroyed the character so thouroughly, I was happy to see him killed off. He is just not staying dead. We had the one-note-shtick - is he incapable of speaking without saying "balls" and "idjits"? He didn`t used to be. We had the pity party, table for one. Apparently his version of heaven is being, deep down, not content because he doesn`t matter enough. And I would be sympathetic if Bobby wasn`t a character who was all ready with the "tough love" for everyone else. He could dish it out but never take it. Meh.

 

And of course, there is the mouth-piece-pimping of Sam. I saw the letter not as a set-up but as a pre-emptive carte blanche that everything Sam will do will be excused because he is such a good person. According to Bobby, Dean was not even a person. Yeah, totally his favourite. He just didn`t think Dean was particularly competent, smart or deep or someone to be proud of. Other than that, I guess Bobby held him in such high esteem to be considered his "favourite". 

 

Other than that, the episode wasn`t actually too bad. The plan to look around in Heaven for info was actually pro-active and why the hell not? It wasn`t a stupid plan, even if it didn`t yield the desired results. Not every plan works out in the end.

 

Crowley manning up about Rowena was satisfying. Since they started the "cure Crowley" story and he got in touch with his inner cry-baby, it was trying, to say the least. The scene with Dean was good. Their relationship is still somewhat weird to me but since Dean and Cas barely share a hemisphere, let alone a visible friendship anymore and Benny is gone and forgotten, I`ll take what I can get.

 

Also satisfying to see Dean be competent in hustling pool. Last thing I would have wanted to see was for him to lose. Just like poker used to be his thing and then an actual episode dealing with a poker witch comes along and he loses spectacularly so Sam saves the day. They never did the reverse with Sam`s areas of expertise. So I would have been furious if they fucked up pool, too.

 

And I loved that Rowena`s magic did zilch because it ain`t just a curse after all.      

 

Dabb is one of their better writers. Figures he writes the least amount of episodes. God forbid the nepotism duo won`t meet their 4-5 quota per Season.  

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My only problem with Rowena is the sacrifice of Crowley`s brain to make her work.  I still like the show, but I hate that they totally ignore what is known about one character to make another make sense.  Crowley is smart, he is ultimately a businessman, he knows everyone has angle.  Don't completely ignore that just because Rowena is his mom.

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(edited)

At least from Dabb we can count on enjoyable romps like "Weekend at Bobby's" or fairly deep and meaningful stories like "Dark Side of the Moon" once every season or so. This was sort of a mix of the two.

 

I loved how we got opposition from Hannah and her fellow angels without them actually being enemies or acting with nefarious motives - just a disagreement about helping Dean being worth risking escape by Metatron and another angel war. It's nice when angels not seeing eye-to-eye doesn't automaticially result in some of them being destroyed. I think I trust Dabb more than anyone else to deal with the metaphysics of the show's setting without cheapening everything.

Edited by Bruinsfan
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(edited)
They never did the reverse with Sam`s areas of expertise.

 

Yes, they did. Dean learned (from Frank) how to break into surveillance cameras and there was a whole scene of how Sam was jealous of it and asked Dean to teach  him how to do it.

 

We also have multiple times where we learn Dean reads books like those by Kurt Vonegut and understands them.

 

I saw the letter not as a set-up but as a pre-emptive carte blanche that everything Sam will do will be excused because he is such a good person.

 

So what if there are saying that Sam is a good person? How will that excuse him from doing something stupid? Good people do stupid things all the time. It still makes what they do stupid. Plus there was the whole part about how Bobby was saying that Sam should tell Dean what he is doing - so how would Sam not telling Dean be "excused" if Bobby specifically said that he should. To me that's more of a set up to show that Sam was advised / warned, so if he doesn't tell Dean, that was a conscious choice on Sam's part to do something against what everyone else was advising. To me that's the complete opposite of "carte blanche" and being "excused." To me, the "Sam is a good person" stuff is more platitudes, if they them make him stupid and reckless in the face of good advice. Your miles may vary.

 

According to Bobby, Dean was not even a person. Yeah, totally his favourite. He just didn`t think Dean was particularly competent, smart or deep or someone to be proud of.

 

Miles vary there. He told Dean that Dean was a much better man than his father was... to Dean who admired his father, so to Dean that meant something. I don't ever remember Bobby telling Dean he wasn't proud of him.  And considering that Bobby didn't even know Sam wasn't Sam for a whole year or even question it - and that "Not Sam" was who Bobby said was a good hunter - he's done some questionable things concerning Sam as well.

 

The whole "not a person" thing was because Bobby was saying that Dean was a hero (hunter = hero), and as a hero, Dean had to put aside being a regular person and doing regular person things, because trying to be / act like a regular person would get him killed. That was the entire gist that I got from that conversation. Taken in context, to me, it has an entirely different meaning.

Edited by AwesomO4000
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Yes, they did. Dean learned (from Frank) how to break into surveillance cameras and there was a whole scene of how Sam was jealous of it and asked Dean to teach  him how to do it.

We also have multiple times where we learn Dean reads books like those by Kurt Vonegut and understands them.

 

A scene in an episode here and there, there was never an entire case of an episode build around such a thing. The writers wouldn`t be caught dead in giving Dean "book-smarts" but Sam got both book-and street-smarts.

 

Of course, Charlie kind of tops it all by being both the ultimate geek and the ultimate badass now.

 

 

So what if there are saying that Sam is a good person? How will that excuse him from doing something stupid?

 

Bobby pretty much said Sam would make the right choice no matter what, meaning IMO that it is to be understood when all is said and done that whatever choice he makes, even if it is the stupidest, most dangerous one on Earth, that it was still right. The lying and witholding thing might be bad but Dean does it too atm so they are pretty even.

 

 

Miles vary there. He told Dean that Dean was a much better man than his father was... to Dean who admired his father, so to Dean that meant something.

 

Bobby didn`t hold him in particularly high esteem, though, so from his end, the "praise" was pretty faint. And it came within that hateworthy douche speech anyway after which the character of Bobby was pretty much dead to me. After that moment, I never saw Bobby acting as if he thought particularly highly of Dean. Concern, yes, but people are concerned for their beloved pets, too. Doesn`t mean they respect them or hold them in esteem. But Bobby increasingly mouth-pieced effusive praises for Sam.

 

It was like the writers telling me what to think/like. I felt this way back then and it was the same with that letter again. Since I didn`t miss that feeling and Bobby, the letter thing was very meh to me. 

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But Bobby increasingly mouth-pieced effusive praises for Sam.

 

For me, as time went on Bobby was just as likely to not express praise. The whole "well maybe that's just Sam" attitude concerning soulless Sam wasn't all that complementary in my opinion. Even when Sam came back, he didn't trust him for quite a while either. So I don't always subscribe to the author mouthpiece theory.

 

Besides if the current mouthpiece includes Garth then we have: "Well, Sam can be insecure at times, but for good reason. Bless his heart."

 

So I've decided to not take that kind of thing into account all that much, and chalk it up to various writer variation.

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(edited)

Just listened to Ruth Connell and Travis Aaron Wade on Afterbuzz Live.  It was almost all about "Inside Man", not Travis' episode. Fun bits:

- Ruth thinks of Rowena like a stray cat. And her hurt at the end was about being put out the door again.  Like she never has anywhere she can land. Makes sense given she's felt she's been on the run from the Coven for years.  I liked the analogy.

- Apparently Ruth forgot her first lines in 7 episodes when Dean had Rowena up against the bar.  Ruth was staring into Jensen's eyes and got kinda lost.  She was pretty embarrassed. I thought that was freaking hilarious because as far as I can tell, it's a common phenomenon with actors and fans.

- During the Rowena/Dean conversation apparently Jensen was sweating because he had been doing the fight scenes with the college boys all day.  He apologized but Ruth didn't seem to mind.

- Travis is only 5'7", which means HE gets an apple box along with Ruth.  Apparently everyone is short compared to the boys. And there were comments how even Misha looked short in Inside Man. Their height is apparently unusual for actors.  Actors run shorter in general per Ruth & Travis.

- There was a cut scene where Rowena was prepping the spell using the bits in her wooden box.

The rest was all pretty much commentary.  Travis made, I thought, an excellent point that sometimes when you are encouraging someone to do something, you end up paying the price.  So, Rowena encouraged Crowley to get a spine and he did.  And now she's on the street.

 

Jensen still apparently doesn't know Ruth ate some of his gummie bears.

 

ETA: That was Ruth's first faux naked scene.  She nearly fell over reading the script and thought "I signed up for Supernatural, not Game of Thrones".  Worked out okay but it was a bit weird.

Edited by SueB
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- Travis is only 5'7", which means HE gets an apple box along with Ruth.  Apparently everyone is short compared to the boys. And there were comments how even Misha looked short in Inside Man. Their height is apparently unusual for actors.  Actors run shorter in general per Ruth & Travis.

 

 

This is why they need to go on Whose Line Is It Anyway? -- I think they might look short next to Ryan Stiles.  ;-)  (Depending on the article, he's anywhere from 6'5" to 6'9".)  Actually, now that I think about it, I don't think any of the male regulars are under 6' tall.

 

Shut up.  I've been watching for almost 25 years.  There's very little I don't know about the show.  :-)

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I had wondered what that ring was that Dean used to wear but I never twigged that it was a wedding ring.  Did it belong to his mother?

 

I never thought it was a wedding ring but I like that idea.  Although, it would probably be John's since it was pretty thick and big enough to fit Dean's manly finger.

I never thought it was a wedding ring from either parent.  I vaguely remember reading back in the early years of the series that it was a ring for Dean to open beer bottles.  Nothing sentimental like the amulet or the Impala.  The other jewelry the boys wore, Dean's and Sam's bracelets, never got a backstory either.

 

I enjoyed seeing Bobby again.  I did think that it would have been nice to have had Ash there to help him out in navigating heaven but it would have been more complicating in an already dense plot.  They do only have 43 min. to pack it all in. 

 

I do wish they'd do away with Metatron already.  He's way past his expiration date.

 

I too laughed out loud at the psychic's line that Cas couldn't be an angel because he was an atheist.  I wonder if this director has been a fan of the show.

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(edited)

So Dean makes his annual pilgrimage to the local bar for a sit 'n chat with Crowley? At least they got some good pool hustling and a fun fight scene in there to balance out the yammering this time. Overall, this is one of the better episodes they've done in a long while, I think.

 

I enjoyed seeing Bobby, but nothing he did was actually all that interesting in the end. Not too fond of the heaven change up, but not sure it doesn't make sense either, just not as cool as Dark Side of the Moon, IMO.

 

So, now it'll be Cass and Maravatron bumbling around the countryside in a Buick built for two in leui of Cass and Hannah? You just know Cass is gonna get played by not-so-marvy Marv again, right? It seems like a pretty obvious set up for Cass to screw things up again.

 

Now that's how the King of Hell should act!

 

Actually, one more complaint: The secret keeping really doesn't make sense. Just because Dean gives up doesn't mean Sam needs to come up with stupid lame excuses about French movies about mimes.

Dean actually believed that? Sam, just tell him what you are doing, I mean what is Dean going to do about it?

 

Yeah, I'm assuming neither Sam or Dean will tell Dean or Sam about each other's discoveries here when it would be most helpful having the whole team in the know. Sigh. It just feels so stupid and pointless. Yes, I do realize what show I'm watching...

 

Crowley's line about keeping enemies closer, I hope it was about the Winchesters, not about Rowena. So, he better have a plan to get back at Dean eventually even though he uses him as a therapist in the meantime.

 

Oh, I've been getting the vibe Crowley is just biding his time for a couple episodes now. He's definitely working on some sort of revenge for those boys trying to cure him, IMO. I just don't think he knows how to accomplish that because Dean seems to be protected by the Mark right now. Plus, I'm sure he's getting his kicks out of Sam and Dean being so tortured right now too.

 

Thinking of John and Mary though, it was interesting that Sam thought of Bobby to contact via the psychic radio to help with the plan.  Not as strong an emotional connection for Sam perhaps?  Or I wonder if writer's figured the majority of viewers wouldn't have the same connection to John or Mary?

 

Are we sure Mary or John is even in Heaven? Mary used her soul energy to take out that poltergeist in S1 so I thought she just didn't exist anymore. No soul, no heaven, right? Ash said he hadn't been able to find either John or Mary in Dark Side of the Moon...maybe John didn't go to Heaven after he broke out of Hell in S2, maybe he got taken back to Hell? Humm?

Edited by DittyDotDot
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I never thought it was a wedding ring from either parent.  I vaguely remember reading back in the early years of the series that it was a ring for Dean to open beer bottles.  Nothing sentimental like the amulet or the Impala.  The other jewelry the boys wore, Dean's and Sam's bracelets, never got a backstory either.

 

A bottle opener makes sense--especially since he doesn't wear it anymore making it seem like he wasn't particular attached to it.  (OT: the scene where he opens the beer bottle with the ring in "Tall Tales" I have to rewind over and over again every time I watch it--I don't know why but I love that random little detail.)

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I never thought it was a wedding ring from either parent.  I vaguely remember reading back in the early years of the series that it was a ring for Dean to open beer bottles.

 

Oh, that makes sense -- maybe he stopped wearing it once he lost his nice lighter? Maybe now he doesn't need a ring to open bottles, because he's carrying around a bic :)

 

So Dean makes his annual pilgrimage to the local bar for a sit 'n chat with Crowley?

 

I think that was a callback to when Dean was a demon, and he and Crowley were hanging out in dive bars. Everything that Dean was doing at the bar was on the one hand ordinary and fun, but on the other hand, exactly the stuff that he kept doing as a demon. It's all the interests/stuff that ordinary!Dean and demon!Dean have in common.

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