S03.E17: Suicidal Tendencies

[Password]

I would love for them to have a big epic blowout (I know, but it fits and I refuse to let MG co-opt this word) and just let it all hang out there. it would be painful and angsty as hell but I think it would do them both some real good, give us a great scene to watch (the things Amell and EBR could do with a scene like that) and most importantly culminate in an epic makeout session, which really we deserve after putting up with some of the BS this season. Now that's the kind of epic gamechanging scene I'd like them to put on my tv.

What's been great about the past 2 episodes for Oliver and Felicity is that they're talking. They are finally voicing things that should've been voiced ages ago. Diggle should lock the two of them in a room until they talk it out. No interruptions, no walking out just straight up ugly truth.

[Ariah]

Frankly these were the parts of Felicity's speech that were objectionable to me. Everything else she said I agreed with and felt it was good for her to call Oliver on those things. These statements though, just confused me and seemingly came out of nowhere.

 

He would like it it something happened to Ray? He was only pretending to want her to be happy? Say, what? As far as Oliver has shown he really does want her to be happy and in as much as its killing him to see her with Ray, he has been supportive and pretty adult about the whole thing so her lashing out about this just shocked the hell out of me. It felt out of place, especially as the conversation was about Oliver's objections to Ray being a vigilante and not Ray and Felicity's relationship. In fact it reminded me of the "I don't want to be a woman you love" scene where in the midst of Felicity's objections to Oliver working with MM, Oliver kept making reference to them and their relationship and her really being upset about that. I thought it was similarly strange for Oliver to reduce the very valid points Felicity was making about MM by bringing her emotions about them into it. 

 

Yes, this was also the moment when Felicity reminded me of Laurel in the past - and made my insides cringe.

 

Still, having accepted the fact that it was indeed Felicity who lashed out with these words - it does seem interesting that she thought, even for a moment, that Oliver would have wanted Ray dead. Because in reality, it's not what Oliver would have wanted - it's her projecting her own thoughts.

 

Deep down, Felicity thinks it would have been easier for them all to have Ray dead (cue drums, curtain falls!).

 

I'm not saying Felicity is conscious of this thought, but I do believe that in that moment she WANTED Oliver to admit his jelousy and fight for her. She got herself tangled in a relationship she may not be fully commited to (and may not be ready to admit that herself, still). Right now, she's going through the relationship motions: once you've slept together, you're supposed to be cuddling and going to weddings and call each other... And this could be the life she wants - she's happy. She is happy, right? (As long as Oliver's in her life). She's happy with Palmer (As long as Oliver's in her life). She's happy, she needs to say it out loud to believe it. Say it out loud to make her brain stop analyzing - is Oliver telling the truth? Did he really let her go? Does she mean so little to him that he's done fighting?...

 

It hurts, when a man who says he loves you refuses to fight for you and turns into a martyr, sacrificing your own happiness for the greater cause... while at the same time constantly saying he wants YOU to be happy. It hurts so much you want him to feel some of this pain, so you lash out with unfounded accusations.

 

"You would like that, wouldn't you?"

(Say yes, say yes, say yes and prove the I mean something to you)

 

But he's back to his old song and you're back to being "happy" with Palmer and what can you do? Go through the motions of that model relationship, because who else would fight for you?

(Oliver)

Not now, maybe not ever. So steal this one kiss, feel the warmth (he's been avoiding your proximity for such a long time and you yearn to touch him). He still does not make a move. Go to Palmer and try to make it work.

[Password]

It may not be completely true and for everyone who doesnt like him, but its likely not completely untrue in some cases either. Ray is accused of "Grossiness" that other characters like Oliver are often left off the hook for, or when the PTB try to explain where they are coming from and the context is completely ignored in certain arguments. The other problem is some people come off as if his wrongdoings are hell dooming, while other character who have erred or and even done worse are treated as redeemable. When you see that kind of reasoning or selectivity, can you really blame those who think they are other hidden motives. Yeah sometimes it does comes of as shipper induced hate . Its depends, on a case to case basis Imo. So no I would NOT say ALL are intelligent and constructive arguments.

I have no doubt that Ray gets knocked for his role in the triangle, but my problem is he's taking any and all constructive criticism for Ray and putting it in a "they hate him because he's in the way of Olicity" box. If he made any distinction between people who hate Ray because of Olicity, and those who dislike him because of his character it would be a different issue. But no, we're apparently one and the same and that is insulting. Especially considering the script has gone out of it's way to say they're not together because of Oliver, not Ray. Now they're saying we cannot keep up with what's being told in the story too.

[Duke Silver]

<shrug>  I don't hate Ray.  I just Do. Not. Care.

 

I'm not into 'ships on pretty much any show (my gf says it's because I'm a "typical" hetero male, but I'm not sure what that means exactly), so I really don't care about Ray/Felicity hooking-up.  I do care, however, that Felicity has been lessened this season for the benefit of Ray & Laurel, at least IMO.   I don't need to see Felicity, or any other character on any show, be in a relationship w/ another character for me ot be invested in them.  I just despise what has happened to the Felicity I came to know & love the first 2 seasons.

[JenMcSnark]

I tried to watch it live and felt an unreasonable amount of rage within the first 10 minutes due to Ray as minister, Oliver rubbing Laurel's back (don't judge me) and the stupidity and awkwardness of the Laurel/Felicity conversation & bouquet...thing, and Ray being all judgy on Felicity and lying in the process.

 

Anyway, I stopped right after that.  But someone convinced me to try again and I have to say, upon rewatch, I didn't hate it.

 

The Roy thing was hilarious.  I'm glad I read about that here before I saw it.   

[looptab]

No, that's not what I was getting at.  I don't thing she was thanking Oliver for being the person she knows he is because that was never in question.  At no part did she express concern that Oliver had gone back to his killing ways.  I think she was thanking Oliver for convincing Ray to trust her judgment. 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post. No, she surely wasn't worried Oliver had gone back to killing, but Ray thought he did. I don't think Ray had his change of heart just because of Oliver's words, but mainly because of his actions: he had the chance to kill him, but didn't, and that showed Ray that Felicity was actually right. So in my opinion her thanking him for proving her right meant basically that. But I think maybe we're looking at this from different perspectives, so I get you may not agree :) - also, I don't think this is any clearer, despite my efforts, ahah.

 

Watching THAT scene between Oliver and Felicity again. 

 

"What I deserve is to be with someone who isn't afraid of being happy." (Did you guys hear the "like you" as loud as I did, even during the first time?) "Ray told me he wanted a true partner, in his work, in his mission and in his life. Ray wants to be a hero and a human being." ("Unlike you")

 

 

I agree with your post except this bolded part. My take was that she was essentially saying, "You don't get to tell me I deserve better, because what I deserve is someone who isn't afraid to be happy, and Ray told me so and so, so he certainly is what I deserve".

 She's trying sooooo hard to convince herself that it can and will work. 

[wonderwall]

Oliver rubbing Laurel's back (don't judge me)

 

Lmao this moment was so awkward and weird that it just made me laugh instead of rage. After 3 years O/L still have zero chemistry

[looptab]

Lmao this moment was so awkward and weird that it just made me laugh instead of rage. After 3 years O/L still have zero chemistry

It was really forced. Yet, it was there. I really believe KC is still trying (and failing, IMO) to portray Laurel in love with Oliver.

[benteen]

Lmao this moment was so awkward and weird that it just made me laugh instead of rage. After 3 years O/L still have zero chemistry

 

That's what he was doing.  I honestly didn't know what the hell was going on during that scene.

[catrox14]

It really bothered me that Oliver put his hand on Laurel's back/shoulder area.  He doesn't do that with just anyone. Heck he hardly does it with anyone at all. and that's what he did with Felicity:(

Edited March 28, 2015 by catrox14

[Lisin]

Hi gang! Your friendly mods are here to remind you about a few things: 

 

This is the episode topic, so if the majority of your post is about relationships and not this episode it probably belongs in the relationships topic.

 

Everyone is entitled to their opinions and it isn't likely you're going to change anyone's mind anyway so lets stick to discussing our own personal opinions and not shooting down other people's. Agreeing to disagree but still discussing why you feel the way you do is totally fine. No one is right or wrong. 

 

Remember this is supposed to be fun! Calling out other poster's opinions isn't fun, snark the show, not your fellow posters. 

[dcinmb]

It really bothered me that Oliver put his hand on Laurel's back/shoulder area.  He doesn't do that with just anyone. Heck he hardly does it with anyone at all. and that's what he did with Felicity:(

 

It was odd because he usually does that when he's trying to comfort or reassure someone (usually Felicity) and nothing Laurel said warranted that response. If anything, the awkwardness of the move just reinforced how uncomfortable they are around each other. Wonder if it was scripted or ad-libbed? I did like that Oliver said her [extra-long tennis] dress was beautiful instead of saying that she was beautiful.

[nksarmi]

I think Oliver and Laurel's current dynamic might be one of the most believable things on the show right now.  They are awkward around each other and they should be.  How many couples in real life could go through what they have gone through and still be able to stand each other?  The fact that they can be friendly at all is amazing. This is the biggest reason why I am SO glad they are doing the Laurel/Nyssa team up.  Because if Laurel is going to get training (and she definitely needs training) - it has to come from someone other than Oliver.

 

I do like that Laurel is willing to defend Oliver and even risk her career to do it.  But I see that as her return to her season one stance that Arrow is a hero (and she believed that even when he was killing bad guys) not her being in love with Oliver.  I think she only turned against Arrow in season two as a way to deflect the guilt she felt for Tommy dying (because Tommy died saving her because she wouldn't listen to anyone and stay out of danger).  She never really felt the Arrow was anything but a hero.  That and her defending Arrow now is also about defending her sister, her own choice, and her friends (and I think she considers Diggle, Roy, Thea, and Felicity friends).

 

Oliver's awkward pat on the back for Laurel was probably more just him not really knowing how to be around her.  It's odd.  He wants to be in charge and he does not want her out fighting, but he can't make that happen.  He doesn't respect her as an equal and she doesn't respect him at all because of his desire to keep Merlyn alive.  They are at odds and how do two people at odds, who used to love each other but now almost hate each other, behave at a mutual friends' wedding - well kind of like that. I thought it was well played.

 

I also LOVED Thea and Roy's dance at the wedding.  I so want those two kids to have a happy ending, which means it so isn't going to happen.  If I ship anyone - I ship them lol.

Edited March 28, 2015 by nksarmi

[wonderwall]

Before this I didn't really go out of my way to put words to paper and criticize Palmer or hate on him... Because before this episode I didn't really hate him. I was indifferent because I knew he was just a plot device. But with all the things he said and the way he criticized Felicity I just feel compelled to start criticizing his actions and his behaviors. I found this gifset about WHY his actions pushed me over the edge: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This episode showed that what Ray Palmer says and what he actually DOES are two COMPLETELY different things. Ray proved in this episode that he was all talk and proved that he probably just told Felicity what she wanted to hear just to be with her which IMO is not honorable at all. I could sympathize with him over the fact that maybe Felicity had broken his trust by not telling Oliver's secret, but he never really put himself in HER shoes. Would Ray be happy if Felicity told Oliver Ray's secret as soon as she found out about the ATOM? Because if he would've been angry, then he has no right to be angry at Felicity for not telling Oliver's secret. I think it would've been great if Ray were understanding of the position Felicity was in, but in the end, he wasn't and in turn made Felicity look bad for ever defending the guy. 

 

Ray might have pure intentions, but the guy is just so damn messed up. His privilege and entitlement are the reasons why he became so obnoxious in this episode. I don't think the show can save his character after this episode.

Edited March 28, 2015 by wonderwall

[Starfish35]

Just popping to say, personally, I didn't see any back rubbing. Oliver lightly rested his hand on Laurel's shoulder, which, yes, I found very weird (sorry, but I prefer these two with at least ten feet of distance between them) but that was it. No rubbing. Maybe I missed something?

[looptab]

What actually bothered me wasn't so much the rub/hand on shoulder/whatever-Oliver touches Roy shoulder almost anytime he asks him to hit the streets-but Laurel's sigh/gasp/whatever that was. Roy doesn't do that. Neither should she. :)

[wonderwall]

What actually bothered me wasn't so much the rub/hand on shoulder/whatever-Oliver touches Roy shoulder almost anytime he asks him to hit the streets-but Laurel's sigh/gasp/whatever that was. Roy doesn't do that. Neither should she. :)

TBQH KC thinks that Laurel is still in love with Oliver and that they're soul mates so the intent of that gasp is as plain as day :p

[kismet]

Before this I didn't really go out of my way to put words to paper and criticize Palmer or hate on him... Because before this episode I didn't really hate him. I was indifferent because I knew he was just a plot device. But with all the things he said and the way he criticized Felicity I just feel compelled to start criticizing his actions and his behaviors. I found this gifset about WHY his actions pushed me over the edge: 

 

 

 

 

 

 

This episode showed that what Ray Palmer says and what he actually DOES are two COMPLETELY different things. Ray proved in this episode that he was all talk and proved that he probably just told Felicity what she wanted to hear just to be with her which IMO is not honorable at all. I could sympathize with him over the fact that maybe Felicity had broken his trust by not telling Oliver's secret, but he never really put himself in HER shoes. Would Ray be happy if Felicity told Oliver Ray's secret as soon as she found out about the ATOM? Because if he would've been angry, then he has no right to be angry at Felicity for not telling Oliver's secret. I think it would've been great if Ray were understanding of the position Felicity was in, but in the end, he wasn't and in turn made Felicity look bad for ever defending the guy. 

 

Ray might have pure intentions, but the guy is just so damn messed up. His privilege and entitlement are the reasons why he became so obnoxious in this episode. I don't think the show can save his character after this episode.

taking it to the relationship thread

[Starfish35]

I'm going to have to rewatch that scene. I honestly didn't notice the gasp, but now I'm curious.

[dcinmb]

Before this I didn't really go out of my way to put words to paper and criticize Palmer or hate on him... Because before this episode I didn't really hate him. I was indifferent because I knew he was just a plot device. But with all the things he said and the way he criticized Felicity I just feel compelled to start criticizing his actions and his behaviors.

 

Same. I even defended him a few times, right up until the day this ep aired. I am now firmly aboard the "GTFOOH, Ray" express.

[looptab]

I'm going to have to rewatch that scene. I honestly didn't notice the gasp, but now I'm curious.

For your viewing pleasure:

 

This is the moment I started screaming "The horror!The horror!" LOL

[Starfish35]

Huh. Yeah it's an weird acting choice by KC, especially since even as he lays his hand on her back he's distracted by Felicity walking up (and so was I - I think that's why I didn't see it the first time).

[apinknightmare]

I figured that gasp was because he hit a tender spot since she just said that her trainer was enthusiastic. 

[Chaser]

That gif makes me uncomfortable. KC and SA are in two different scenes again. He isn't even looking at her (and frankly he doesn't look like he is paying that much attention) and she looks like he touched her with something else/somewhere else. The chest raise, gasp and flash of tongue. Really awkward.

I figured that gasp was because he hit a tender spot since she just said that her trainer was enthusiastic. 

I'm going to go with that version. Thanks :-)

[looptab]

Yeah and this is just one of a three part gifset. In the following she looks down kinda flustered/pensive/wistful(?) I can't even identify it ahah. 

 

That gif makes me uncomfortable. KC and SA are in two different scenes again. He isn't even looking at her (and frankly he doesn't look like he is paying that much attention) and she looks like he touched her with something else/somewhere else. The chest raise, gasp and flash of tongue. Really awkward.

Right??Exactly why I hate it. It does seem sexual, when there's really no reason.

Edited March 28, 2015 by looptab

[nksarmi]

Maybe Amell's hands were really cold?  Like maybe he just put his hands in ice and it totally pranking her.  I don't know if the actress thinks the characters are still in love or not, but I think the scene with them was just awkward and weird just as it should be (I hope that trend continues for awhile, but I'm sure all past issues with them will be water under the bridge soon and they'll be part of the same crime fighting team by next season).

[kismet]

Can anyone even remember what they were talking about? It sorta looks like comforting touch like the kind you give when somebody's just died or found out they were sick. Her face shows more release like maybe she was anxious or nervous about something. Maybe she's just still grieving Sara or Quentin and something was triggered in that moment. It read as awkward & weird, but I didn't get sexual from it. It also read as shock, so maybe his hands were just cold.

[romantic idiot]

It's the tongue that makes it sexual, really. 

[catrox14]

I thought she saw Quentin..

[looptab]

They were talking about her wrist cast, she tells him she has a new trainer and that she's enthusiastic, he goes all "She?!" and Laurel responds with "Today's not about that". Apparently that conversation made her horny, I don't know.

[benteen]

Last season, SA always looked annoyed when the Laurel character dragged him out of a more interesting storyline.

 

Forgot to add, Waller covering up for the corrupt and treasonous politician is Reason #5,284 why she is a moron who shouldn't have the power she does.  The fact that she covers up for these kind of corrupt politicians (Culp's character took it to a new level) is probably the reason she hasn't been removed from her position for gross incompetence.  Waller is literally the type who would allow her army and her country to burn to the ground just to win a single battle.

[SmallScreenDiva]

A wince would have worked better to illustrate pain. But Oliver's touch seemed so gentle; I mean, he basically just cupped her shoulder very briefly. So unless there's like a gash there, she shouldn't really have reacted with pain. But, if there's a gash there, she wouldn't be wearing a dress with thin straps (off a tangent: I've realized why the dress bugs me. The top resembles a tennis player's dress. I blame the white straps and weird piping in the neckline. Otherwise, I thought the color was nice and LL carried it well).

[Starfish35]

off a tangent: I've realized why the dress bugs me. The top resembles a tennis player's dress. I blame the white straps and weird piping in the neckline.

Yeah tennis dress was what I first thought too when I first saw it.

[paigow]

If Grant Ward (from AoS) killed Ray Palmer and assumed his identity with the magic mask, would anyone in Starling City notice?

[kismet]

It's the tongue that makes it sexual, really. 

 

I think that is just because of the gif, if it wasn't slowed down it would literally just be her opening her mouth, Im not sure you see the tongue in real time.

I thought she saw Quentin..

 

Yeah, but I think she is still hurting from that. She might have done a callous thing, but I don't think she really thought through the repercussions of her actions. I think its hurt her badly. She loved her father, I never thought she did in intentionally for selfish reasons. But now that I know they were talking about her wrist, strike my explanation about it being r/t QL.

They were talking about her wrist cast, she tells him she has a new trainer and that she's enthusiastic, he goes all "She?!" and Laurel responds with "Today's not about that". Apparently that conversation made her horny, I don't know.

I think OQ put it together that it was Nyssa. He probably then also put together that if her & Nyssa are spending time together, Sara must be on both of their minds. So I think he understands that type of pain, which is probably why he gave comforting touch. LL was probably just relieved that he wasn't judging her and she probably didn't want to talk about it because it wasn't the time or place. I mean it would just make everyone sad.

Edited March 28, 2015 by kismet

[lexicon]

For your viewing pleasure:

 

This is the moment I started screaming "The horror!The horror!" LOL

 

Oh jeez I never even noticed it before but now my eyes can't unsee the horror. I honestly think KC is acting in her own show. In the context of what was happening in that scene, her reaction makes no sense, unless it was meant to be a pained reaction because she was hurt from training in which case why the semi-orgasmic face? It's hilarious, especially in view of Oliver and Felicity's oblivion to what was going on with her. You do you KC. 

[apinknightmare]

The slowed down gif is making it look a lot different than it came off in the show. She inhaled really quickly - I really do think it was supposed to indicate that he touched a sore spot from her training. 

[jaytee1812]

Yeah tennis dress was what I first thought too when I first saw it.

Laurel's dress at the wedding was horrible. It was made worse by Felicity and Thea's being gorgeous.

[Chaser]

I didn't like Laurel or Felicity's dresses. Color was fine on both (props to KC for being able to pull off orange), but bust shape on both was awful. Felicity was pointy and boxing and Laurel looked like she was wearing a sports bra. it was weird. Still annoyed at Felicity's hair. She is not going prom!

 

Thea nailed it though. Loved everything about her look.

[wonderwall]

Yep. I didn't like Felicity's hair or dress (I liked her makeup though), didn't like Laurel's dress at all (though kudos to her for pulling off that unflattering color), but I LOVED what Thea wore! Her wardrobe was spot on

[kismet]

A wince would have worked better to illustrate pain. But Oliver's touch seemed so gentle; I mean, he basically just cupped her shoulder very briefly. So unless there's like a gash there, she shouldn't really have reacted with pain. But, if there's a gash there, she wouldn't be wearing a dress with thin straps (off a tangent: I've realized why the dress bugs me. The top resembles a tennis player's dress. I blame the white straps and weird piping in the neckline. Otherwise, I thought the color was nice and LL carried it well).

Kudos to KC because that is a very hard color to pull off. But I honestly also see swimsuit. I think both dresses were actually ugly as dresses. Im not sure what was up with the contouring panels on Felicity's dress. They both looked like they ran by the clearance rack at the dept store before going to the wedding. They didnt seem on trend or even from this decade. Thea's dress was gorgeous though. I mean they didn't give her any lines this episode but at least she got paid to look good. And no navel dresses at the wedding so that was pleasant surprise.

[Starfish35]

I liked Felicity's hair, and I absolutely love the color (I am nuts about that shade of red). But yes, the cut wasn't that flattering. Although that seems to be a popular style at the moment, but I wish it would go away.

I like the color of Laurel's dress and I think she looked good in it. But yeah, the white straps and lining on the top of the bodice make it look way too casual.

[jaytee1812]

While we're on the shallow, KC has lovely posture. Also Thea and Roy make a gorgeous couple.

I have to say sometimes I think Felicity, Thea and Laurel should have their own spin off. Roy and the Barrowman can come along for the pretty.

[SmallScreenDiva]

Oh yes, loved Thea's dress. It looks white, though I'm thinking it's actually like a very light pink. Because you do NOT wear white at a wedding!

[wonderwall]

 

 

Do you guys think this is a possible turning point for Oliver? Because him saying that makes it seem like it is

[Chaser]

I can't figure out what is a turning point or not for Oliver. He up and decided to go to Felicity in 3x07, but that didn't change anything. He died in 3x09 and that didn't change anything. 

[statsgirl]

I doubt it's a turning point for Oliver. It's only episode 17, and nothing big will happen till the final sweeps.  They really play by the numbers.

 

I think it's kudo's to SA's acting because Oliver basically told Felicity that Ray was going to reject her as soon as he figured out the vigilante thing, and I didn't want to kill him.

 

He would like it it something happened to Ray? He was only pretending to want her to be happy? Say, what? As far as Oliver has shown he really does want her to be happy and in as much as its killing him to see her with Ray, he has been supportive and pretty adult about the whole thing so her lashing out about this just shocked the hell out of me. It felt out of place, especially as the conversation was about Oliver's objections to Ray being a vigilante and not Ray and Felicity's relationship. In fact it reminded me of the "I don't want to be a woman you love" scene where in the midst of Felicity's objections to Oliver working with MM, Oliver kept making reference to them and their relationship and her really being upset about that. I thought it was similarly strange for Oliver to reduce the very valid points Felicity was making about MM by bringing her emotions about them into it. 

That's a good point -- Oliver dismissed Felicity's objections to MM saying it was instead about her feelings for him, and Ray dismissed her arguments about Oliver saying that it was about her feelings for Oliver. Thanks for the mansplainin' guys.

 

Oliver said he didn't object to their relationship but I wonder if that's so true now that he saw them together at the wedding.  He didn't say anything then but as soon as he found out about Ray's suit, he's suddenly completely anti Felicity being with Ray.  There's a whole lot of projecting on Oliver's part going on there -- as long as Ray was different, it was okay for Felicity to be with him but as soon as he becomes like Oliver, it's not.

 

There's no reason to think that Ray will be distracted by being in a relationship with Felicity as Oliver thinks he is. The opposite in fact, given how quickly Ray dismisses Felicity and has secrets from h er.

 

And if Oliver really wanted to keep Felicity safe, he'd exclude her from Team Arrow.

 

I'm sorry, I wasn't clear in my previous post. No, she surely wasn't worried Oliver had gone back to killing, but Ray thought he did. I don't think Ray had his change of heart just because of Oliver's words, but mainly because of his actions: he had the chance to kill him, but didn't, and that showed Ray that Felicity was actually right.

Felicity didn't know all that though. All she knew was that Oliver talked to Ray and Ray decided not to pursue Oliver any more.

 

Between disrespecting Felicity, lying to her, stealing her tech and doing the press conference without telling her, can I hate Ray any more?  What were the writers thinking?

[dcinmb]

I love the color of Felicity's dress but don't care for the cut. Although it's a lot better than those awful keyhole dresses she often wears. I like keyhole dresses but mine have the cutouts higher up---not right where my cleavage is. Plus, a lot of Felicity's dresses and skirts are one size too small and her bandeau bras are often too tight. Just look at the one she wore in "The Offer." And the dress didn't even necessitate a bandeau or strapless bra in the first place.

 

[Starfish35]

Yes, I've noticed that the wardrobe department seems to frequently put her in stuff a size too small. I wish they'd stop it.

[JenMcSnark]

Just popping to say, personally, I didn't see any back rubbing. Oliver lightly rested his hand on Laurel's shoulder, which, yes, I found very weird (sorry, but I prefer these two with at least ten feet of distance between them) but that was it. No rubbing. Maybe I missed something?

After seeing the gif, it's apparent you're right.  ;)  Like I said, unreasonable rage.